If that’s your attitude toward people who disagree with you, it’s no wonder you can’t make any friends. The problem is in the mirror.

It seems odd to me that people blame everyone else when they can’t make friends, instead of themselves.

Grew up in the NE and always thought of Boston as the snootiest place around, in comparison to the rest of the NE that is, which was all I knew.

Moved to Seattle and became good friends with some natives.

They moved to Boston for teaching jobs at “snooty” colleges there.

Here was their impression of Boston:

“The people here are so warm!!! There are whole extended families living within blocks of each other!!! There’s such a sense of community!!!”

Now, having lived in Seattle for a decade or so, I knew exactly what they meant. Living here shed a whole new light on Bostonians.

I guess I’d always compared them to New Yorkers, that other big NE city and they’d come up short on the “howdy scale”.

Totally agree that Seattle lacks any sense of humility. It’s a total “Self Promoter” city.

Too bad.

Schell’s hyterical “This is NOT SEATTLE!!! !!!” During WTO just about summed it up.

Complete denial never solves a thing.

I think some people are saying this right. Not everyone is unfriendly. Not everyone is a native here.

Still there’s a chilly tendency that’s hard to ignore. People don’t object to it being called that if it’s said of guys from Maine by the way. People aren’t shocked if you say South Florida tends to big on appearances and friendliness and short on educational levels.

Baltimore’s nickname for itself is “Charm City”, it seems both true as well as tongue in cheek. If I’m remembering this correctly, it was only a few years ago that Baltimore residents voted themselve the worst dressed people in the country in some poll! My point is there’s a sense of humility in other places that seems to be a bit absent here. The fact that “The Freeze” is talked about frequently as opposed to say, Seattle charm, Seattle hospitality etc… doesn’t mean there aren’t any nice people or that no one’s ever lent a hand to a stranger here. A trait is just that, not an absolute.

Finally, I think there’s a huge difference between being really polite and being friendly. I think it’s quite polite around here. Friendly’s another story.

You can argue about how many people here are really from somehwere else, but I’m sure that’s true of the top 100 cities in the country or more. I’ve never heard of any place with this rep anywhere else except for maybe Boston.

Ironically, I met a guy the other day while at a public event who was from Boston. Maybe the friendliest person I’ve met since coming here. He and his family are moving back East….why? The guy from Boston can’t stand the Seattle Freeze…..

As it relates to this blog, I think there are positive things in Seattle. It’s a socially responsible place, the nature that’s around here is amazing. It’s a literate city. It’s got a creative edge over many places.

I think when people experience the “Freeze” and the rain for weeks on end, they’re understandably a bit surprised when the same house they’ve seen selling elsewhere for 150K going for 500K.

Despite this pattern, every year I find more and more people admitting that the locals are a closed-off, insular bunch. There are newspaper articles, radio shows, and support groups all devoted to the Seattle Freeze. Counselors specialize in it. Classes are taught on how to overcome it. So perhaps the Freeze is a generalization, but at this point, it isn’t an incorrect generalization.

As for biliruben, and those of you who would insult the many people who have social difficulty here, I have only one question: what do you gain from being so defiantly self-satisfied?

LOL! Isn’t THAT the truth! Too creepy.

4 years in NYC – talk about lack of eye contact. Look someone in the eye only at the risk of a beating. Sheesh.

4 years of faux-friendly Charleston. Talk about sugary smiles and knives in the back. Yuck.

2 years of Illinois – hardest place I’ve ever lived to make friends, hands down. Only place I’ve truly felt lonely.

Stupid generalizations are just that.

Sorry, native…you can’t make this go away by pretending that it’s an overgeneralization.

Nobody has suggested that all locals are cold, arrogant and anti-social. However, it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that the many who are cold, arrogant and anti-social negatively color the place for the rest of us….

RE: KUOW’s “Conversation”

Good stuff – “I moved here to Gold Bar and found it difficult to make friends”

Also, “I think its b/c people are busy kayaking or rock climbing” – yah…

But seriously, pretty dead on. Luckily I am a native. If I was in your shoes and had a choice, I sure wouldn’t come here. The one Brit was dead on – “I didn’t go to Roosevelt or UW”. I would agree but substitute Lakeside for the former.

Great posts – basically, get ready to hunker down for 200-300 days of rain and practice your survival skills. If you don’t like it, hit the bricks – Starbucks coffee is for closers only! Not being glib Tom Cruise, just honest.

Caution: Empty bladder prior to listening.

I’ve lived here for six years now, so I feel like I’ve “put in” more than enough time — yet all of my friends are from the east coast. I no longer care, nor do I plan to stay. Life’s too short to live in a place where people don’t make eye contact.

On a related note, I stumbled across these archived epsiodes of KUOW’s “Conversation,” devoted to the subject of the Seattle Freeze. The first episode is almost comical — the host is clearly skeptical of the phenomenon, starts out his show with some snarky comments about stereotypes, and is almost overwhelmed by the number of people who call in to testify about The Freeze. The second show was added due to the overwhelming response to the first. Both are great:

The first epsiode (6/2005).

The second one (9/2005).

Happy listening, out-of-towners!

This is partially true and a great topic. You have to understand the history. At one time this place was way cool, lesser Seattle (KBO), the Lazy B, Chuck Knox. This is all long gone though. Everyone (and Ken Behring) came up and ruined it (tongue in cheek). Fairly provincial myself so apologies upfront.

IMHO, there is still a fair amount of long timers who look down upon new arrivals for some reason. Anon 2:53 AM – some of your thoughts sound familiar to my arrival many years ago, although its a much easier transition when your doing keg-stands and running naked through Ravenna-Cowan Park. Basically, you have to put in the time – consider yourself on double secret probation. Combine all of this with some of the area’s heritage (substitute Norwegian fishermen for bachelor farmers in Lake Wobegon) and voila.

Might have to consider downsizing to P-town someday – too bad it falls in Oregon though. What we need is a WA equivalent of Bend (mountain town on the east slopes, close to class ski resort, and no this would not include Snoq Summit).

Read about the Seattle Freeze here.

This experiment is now over….

It’s the one thing I really miss about that city.

And it’s a big thing cuz it affects your life every waking minute of the day.

Thanx Tim!!

See my instructions for linking in the comment I posted here.

Had a good laugh over that one. Having lived in CA for 10 years and most recently in TX for 10 years I have to say that TX folks are MUCH friendlier than Seattle folks.

And lest ye think me yet another “basher” I have provided a URL that lends some merit to the argument that Seattle folks might need some “charm school” lessons.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/pacificnw/
2005/0213/cover.html

Anyone know how to embed a URL?

I can’t vouch for Honolulu, but having lived in the Northeast for most of my life, your take on NYC and Boston is dead-on.

Not to split hairs here, but…

The anon 1205 post you refer to did not say that arrogance, smugness, and the chill were universal Seattle traits, only that they were common. Unfortunately, anon 1205 is correct, and anyone that has lived here for any length of time knows it.

Your San Francisco, New York, and Southern references were all universal, which as you know, are false.

I am in a profession that allows me to see the entire USA on a regular basis. As contrary as it might seem, New York is the one place in the country I would rate as the friendliest, with Honolulu as the second (Boston is the rudest – by far), urban areas not located in the Southeast are the most racist (if you include black-on-white/hispanic-on-white racism), and the gayest place in the USA is Miami Beach.

Not including college towns/ski resorts, San Francisco gets the gold medal for smugness (Seattle gets the silver).

Not including college towns/ski resorts, San Francisco again gets the blue ribbon for arrogance, with its little brother, Seattle, nipping on its heels in an almost “ME TOO!! ME TOO” like fashion.

Seattle and Portland get a slight price break from California because the weather isn’t percieved to be as nice. Still the whole west cost enjoys mostly cool weather and low humidity year round.

I’m from Florida originally and love the fact that I might hear 5-6 different languages being spoken during the day. The crispness of the air, smell of the trees, character of the neighborhoods, whackiness of the people, beautiful parks, inspiring views, quality of the food AND apparent lack of Dubya stickers & Rebel flags, etc…

Yes, I realize I’ve only been here for 6 months, however people will always find a reason to complain – but for those who love this lifestyle, Seattle REALLY is different, and in a good way.

If you want to blame S.A.D., the traffic, or Seattle Chill is bringing you down, then that is your reality.

Seattle is NOT different when it comes to real estate unfortunately.

Saying Seattle residents are passive aggressive, smug, arrogant is like saying everyone in San Francisco is gay, all New Yorkers are rude, all Southerners are racist. That anon (Sun Sep 03, 12:05:48 PM PDT) certainly contributes to Seattle’s problem if there ever is a problem to begin with.

I agree – I haven’t seen that much pom-pom waving since Bring it on. A quick check of her record shows that she always prints positive news about real estate. Not a big surprise, since most of our media only exists as a forum in which to advertise to us (or be paid for it).

That’s why it’s important to read things that have almost no advertising such as ‘the economist’. When my grandparents were alive, they read “Christian Science Monitor”, again, virtually no advertising.

I know reporters don’t make that much and based on her shill-like articles one can only assume she’s on the take.

The tipping point in Seattle has already passed, which means we’ll start to fall in line with the rest of the USA – and prices will start to fall. I predict a series of “soft landing” type articles from her next (after its’ obvious the rest of USA is in hard landing mode); and then a few “how did this happen? We were different” type articles.

I doubt she’ll ever capitulate. She’l probably move to North Carolina and talk about the booming market there…

(another trait common to Seattle residents: passive-aggressiveness.)

“as for “chilly people”, I’d have to say you must be a contributor to that problem, judging from the attitude of your post”

(another trait common to Seattle residents: smugness.)

“And what, exactly, is wrong with saying to someone who hates where he lives, ‘why don’t you move?’”

(another trait common to Seattle residents: arrogance.)

I feel sorry for you that you can only see negative things — and as for “chilly people”, I’d have to say you must be a contributor to that problem, judging from the attitude of your post. I’ve met great people here.
And what, exactly, is wrong with saying to someone who hates where he lives, “why don’t you move?” That is the most natural, obvious question. I used to live in Baltimore, where I moved for a job, and I didn’t like living there, so I moved. I lived in California for several years after that and decdied it wasn’t for me, so I moved here and am very happy and intend to stay put. I certainly don’t have hateful things to say about the places I’ve lived that I didn’t like — they just weren’t for me, that’s all. And the people on here who hate it in Seattle never seem to be able to explain why they don’t move! What on earth is keeping you here?
Whatever. I am going to go out and enjoy the “awful weather” we have here! Anonymous can stay inside and think up some more horrible things about Seattle, and what a jerk I am for liking where I live.

I’ve exchanged emails with her many times and the woman hardly never mentions the exotic loan phenomena, and never ever does any detailed analysis of the subject. She’s probably the worst shill we have currently in the local media.

I’ve been reading this blog for a long time, and there have been relatively few negative comments about Seattle. What few there are are usually in response to some bubblehead who thinks that this place is SO special that it can NEVER experience a real estate downturn.

In fact, the problem is usually the opposite of what you describe: Seattle residents are total polyannas. Try to have an adult conversation about the negative aspects of the city, and nine times out of ten, they’ll tell you to leave (sound familiar?)

In my own experience, Seattle is a provinicial, backward town with awful weather, high taxes, poor infrastructure, and chilly people. And while I cannot deny that some people like to live here, I also can’t deny that some people like to live north of the arctic circle.

It takes all types to make the world go ’round — you folks run into trouble when you convince yourselves that they all want to live here.

Seattle isn’t THAT bad. The weather just sucks for 300 straight days over the winter.

I live 5 blocks from the ocean right now and kind of wish it was a big beautiful lake instead.

Lived in Seattle for 17 years and probably saw the ocean 20 times. Most parts of the city, you don’t even know it’s there. Can’t see it, can’t smell it.

Of all the “ocean cities” I’ve lived in, Seattle is the one that rarely felt “ocean-y”.

I agree, as I have done both.

There is a saying, “If I owned both Texas and Hell, I’d live in Hell and rent out Texas.”

Tongue-in-cheek aside, Texas isn’t THAT bad. The weather just sucks for 80 straight days over the summer. There is no way to sugarcoat that. However, the Spring and Fall are to die for, and the Winter is pretty mild, with occasional Northern blasts.

The living is very easy and affordable. You can live in a town with lower crime than Bainbridge Island, higher income than Mercer Island, better schools than both, easy Interstate access, and live in a 3000-4500sf completely pimped-out house for under $350K, and many under $250K.

If you like sun and hate the marine overcast, it isn’t bad. For me, I’m the opposite, as I was in 7th Heaven last December when we had 35 straight days of rain. I grew up here, and I like it. Many of my Texas friends wonder why anyone would live in an area that received 220+ days of rain per year, and 7.5 hours of daylight during the winter.

Also, you can’t get Bluebell ice cream around here.

The moral to the story is many places can be appealing, if you want them to be. The bi-Coastal regions will not hold the current premium forever, as many will move to Flyover Country, wonder why they ever thought they were destined to live around the ocean (they only visited once per year)forever, and never look back.

And yet, you ignore the fact that we are living in the most dangerous place in the contiguous united states — with seismic events that make California look like an amusement park ride.

Yeah, we have it good for now… with a magnitude 9.0 quake due five years ago. A real wonderland!

why would SEA be different? why is SEA more different than areas like SF that are experiencing downturns. more importantly, when did SEA become different? what year?

ignore price history at your own peril. in the last 30 years there have been 2 price declines in seattle.

30 years of residential real estate prices

A few weeks back he also wrote an editorial on how the housing market is built on crap loans. Period.

Considering WA. is in the top 6 nationally for ARM’s and Neg Am’s, it was about time somebody mentioned the loan problem in the media.

And yes, he is a voice that is sorely needed in this area to provide a counterbalance to those who are encouraging 20 – somethings to mortgage their futures on overpriced miniscule condos in a stalling/falling market or “buy with friends” etc., still trying to create the “fear that leads to buying at all costs”.

Next question: How will the WaMu fiasco be reported around here?