I have sold listings where the buyer was given the whole 3%, since he had no buyer agent. Why do you think that is not an option?

I have assisted buyers purchase homes for over a million dollars for a minimal flat fee, given their ability to proceed without needing full representation. i.e. representing themselves, minimal service needed.

Why do you think these things can not be negotiated in the marketplace? Everything is negotiable. In fact, I do not wait for the consumer to want to pay less. I tell them up front if they have to pay full rate or not. The factors are price of property and difficulty of client. Some pay less than 1/2 of 1% and some pay 2% and some pay 3%. Why the perception that all pay the same?

Some people need full service, some don’t. Some people get full service for less, some don’t. Why this perception that there are no negotiations? Just because it is confidential between the consumer and the agent, does not mean there are not negotiations every day.

It is a misperception to think that all consumers pay the same rate or dollar amount for services.

I will shortly post the actual cost of services in a manner that retains client confidentiality. By end of January.

I absolutely do credit companies like Redfin for the changes they are making in the industry.

While I do not fault Ms. Reed for that which you do, I do fault her for “the Redfin clause” on the commission description.

If only you (Seattle Bubble) would target the real issues, you could have a strong voice and promote good changes. To that end I hope to enlighten.

If more consumers (buyers) realized that they are coming to the table with the money to generate commissions, then I think consumers would gladly hire an experienced and knowledgeable agent—ie, you are paying for it in the sales price of the home. Yes, I’ll save the subject of who is paying commissions for another time, just food for thought. People may find it odd that an escrow guy such as me, not in the sales end of real estate, raises this issue here, but it’s really important.

(But those arguments will not fly in this forum).

I did overstate my case: I’d also be very likely to use a discount broker like Redfin.

My “childish” approach is that I’d rather negotiate the difference between price+commission (seller retains agent commission) and price-commission (buyer retains agent commission). More and more properties are FSBO or available via online (discount) broker these days.

By the time the median house price in King County is affordable at the 80th percentile income level, there will be even richer online and discount/by owner listing services availble.

Buying ONLY for sale by owner limits your choices and is a childish philosophy. Why would you limit your choices to only those homes not listed in the mls?

Not a very smart move. Hugely diminished choices in a market that requires much more care in the buying process than that. Better to spend your time finding the person you respect (they can’t ALL be bad) than limiting yourself to ONLY properties with no agents involved. Sounds like a formula for disaster.

Really, as a buyer, what do you care if the seller hires an agent to represent him? Doesn’t limit you…

More choices for consumers does not equal disregarding 95% of the homes for sale.

The corruption/monopoly issues just make the issue more visible.

Putting Realtors in the unemployment line: It’s A Priority (for educated buyers)

There are many levels of information available. One is information available through the seller and seller’s agent, as on the Seller Disclosure Statement. One is through the home inspection process. On a condo, it is in the resale certificate regarding money in reserves and available for operating costs and life expectancy of common area components.

Much information is available to the buyer, without a buyer’s agent, for the buyer who makes an offer. That same information is not available to someone who is not making an offer.

If a buyer wants someone to look at the resale certificate to determine the liklihood of future special assesments, not currently known to the HOA, then they need a buyer’s agent for that. A seller’s agent will tell you what is, not what may be coming down the pike. Granted, many buyer’s agents do not know how to do that either. So merely having a buyer’s agent does not necessarily afford someone an advantage over someone who does not have a buyers agent. Depends on the agent.

The seller’s agent will not tell you if the home appears to be overpriced. The buyer can come to their own conclusions in that regard, or seek the advices of a buyer’s agent. Of course if there are four offers in on the property…it’s a given this house is priced at market value regardless of comps and data.

The DOJ suit is about a provision that permits some members of the mls to withhold their properties from the mls feed to companies like Redfin and MLS4U. There is an exchange of data agreement. You can show mine if I can show yours. So one big broker can say, that company can’t show mine and I won’t show theirs.

That is the issue of the DOJ suit, as originally filed, and it is to protect the new business models from being boycotted.

I left the Realtor Organization after 14 years, as I do side with the DOJ. So your attacking me as if I am a Realtor Member is inappropriate. I am not a Realtor Member.

Same goes for the “it’s a priority.com”. I am not a member of the group who sponsors that commercial.

Not all real estate agents are members of WAR and NAR. I personally am not.

People like to have a face when they call someone. Helps them visualize the person they are speaking with and it does help with communication.

As to it being a filtered photo, tell that to the photographers. We don’t ask for it, nor tell them how to do their job. Just turns out that way.

I think it’s better than some people who hold their digital camera up to their fact and click. YMMV

You are incorrect. The true information is only available IF they use an agent with MLS. This is not a prerequsite to making an offer and is a bad assumption on your part.

I was wondering if you’d like to buy a used car using standard real estate practices from people held to the same ethical standards as real estate agents?

Disintermediation cannot come fast enough for some of us.

And thank heaven for that!

Then what is this all about?:

http://www.itsapriority.com/

Go ahead and protect your precious MLS. A lot of good it will do you when you’re standing in the unemployment line.

No six-percent for you!

Clearly the buyer will get more information IF they are making an offer on THIS property, than will appear in an advertisement.

Expected a seller to air negative issues over the internet, is not practical. Yes, THE BUYER or the potential buyer is entitled to that information…but not the public at large.

The “Fed’s anti-trust” suit has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

Thank you for summarizing the some of the Anti-Consumer arguments against the MLS in the Fed’s anti-trust suit.

If a buyer relied on “new in the last 7 days” and bought it, couldn’t they maybe sue the brokerage who showed that on the site? Even though that brokerage was not involved in the sale?

Why take the risk of being sued if it isn’t your seller client or your buyer client involved in the sale of the property?

Every good agent knows they have to be Sherlock Holmesish to truly determine the seller’s “efforts to sell”. There really is just no way around that, and has always been true. There are just too many variables to warrant the days on market.

1) If the house is off market for some period, the system must erase previous days on market. The reason for this is a property purchased and then resold in a short period of time, should not pick up the previous days on market.

2) I actually saw someone list a property in Seattle as Kenmore to circumvent the days on market function the other day. The mls pulled the bad listing, but the person is simply waiting out the 30 or 60 days or whatever to get around the “cumulative” system.

3) Sometimes showing the property address as an abbreviation vs. spelled out affects days on market. First agent says 9th Pl. and second agent says 9th Place SW, can cause the system to not pick up the previous days on market.

It is not meant to be an infallible system, and since days on market is so very important to valuation process, mls requires agent to verify by their own means.

I am sorry that no one wants to understand that the mls system is not meant for the public to use as a means for purchasing property without an agent. But the system is agent to agent…that is what the mls is. I can’t make it not be that.

Cumulative Days on Market is a new feature, relatively speaking, for the mls. I am sure as time goes by, the reliability will improve. But there will always be people (seller people) who will hold their property off the market for over 60 days and bring it back on market. So there really is no way to warrant the accuracy of days on market.

If the public wants to believe the DOM is fact, the only way to handle that is to not show it at all. There are many things in the mls that do not show on public sites. DOM would be just one of many, like price changes…dates of those price changes, etc.

Say a property was 160 days on market, but was reduced in price from $899,000 to $699,000 over that time. That is very important to know and agents can access that info within the mls with actual dates of every price change.

The public’s view is an “advertisement” for the most part, and not a “sharing of the agent tool”.

Same for lending industry. You see rates are 6%. You don’t see that rates are 6% if credit score is at least 720 and 6.25 if your credit score is 620 and 6.5% if your credit score is 610, etc…

Public view of info for any industry, will never be as detailed as the info to those in the industry. It is just a small view of the big picture and one to give the public an “idea” of what is out there…not the whole story. And basically it is an advertisement of homes for sale.

Why is the cummalative days on market available to Realtors, but not to the general public that is looking for a home?

Just about all other data on a home listing is available on any MLS site. Why not have cumulative days?

Technically, it would be very simple.

I’m sorry but under pressure to post data the MLS participants have chosen to lie. Well? What is another word for knowing true DOM and actually posting a different number? What’s next? Publishing the higher of per assesor or approx square footage even though the agent may know which is more accurate? Oh… wait….

These Enron type excuses don’t fly.

From the buyer consumer’s vantage point, there really is no difference. For one to understand the rationale, one has to step back and understand that the mls is an agent to agent communication and also, we must balance buyer objectives with seller objectives. To understand the real estate market, one most always view it from both sides at the same time, and not a one way mirror view as first time buyers tend to do.

That the buying public can now see a bit of the mls, not all, but some of it, has and will continue to cause modifications. But only to the extent that we can, as the system must still function for the agents and the seller too.

The buyer consumer public hates getting emails as “new listing” when something is entered in the mls that has been on market. I don’t blame them. We hate it too :) But there is no way around that when a listing changes from one company to another or the seller comes off market for a family gathering or illness and then comes back on.

The way the mls HAS changed is to make the Days on Market cumulative. This is a new change as of 2006. Not infallible, but helpful to all except the seller.

Now to Sarah. As the seller’s agent, her duty is ONLY to the seller and not the public at large. She is correct that agents who show property will often eliminate or reduce to a reasonable number by listing date.

Say I’m showing property today just as an “overview of what your dollar can buy” kind of “tour”. I will only show three to five of the many. I will more likely pick 3-5 of the most recent mls#s, than one with a six month old mls#. I won’t be looking too closely, as I am not showing for the buyer to pick one…just an overview of the best the market has to offer in their price range. Not analyzing the properties the same way I would if the buyer were my client, this is a “just getting to know each other to negotiate the buyer agent fee” tour.

Sarah’s method of short listings helps ensure that her seller client’s property is “in the tour” most often. That is her job. She ONLY has to worry about the seller’s objective. It is the buyer agent’s job to worry about the buyer’s objective and the mls’ job to maybe modify their rules to accommodate the public peeking in to “our world – the mls”. The general public’s perception, the one most focused on here…is really the least of our concerns. The system does not exist for the public at large. It exists for the agents to function for their respective clients. So we must keep our objective at the forefront.

Sarah is doing an excellent job for her seller client. She takes the risk of being replaced as the seller’s agent by having short contracts. She takes that risk for the seller’s benefit and to her possible detriment. And so she is putting her client’s interest above her own.

I can’t fault her for that.

It is the buyer agent’s job to do a full history of the property to double check the cumulative days on market. We have a button for that IN the mls system that is not available to the general public. So the buyer agent can and always should check all ways of determining property history for their buyer client. Example, someone who has been trying to seel for four years from April through September EVERY year. New listing numbers for all and no cumulative days on market in that case. The Buyer Agent must protect the buyer’s interests. The seller’s agent must protect the seller’s interests. The public vantage point is not our concern at all, however we do try to make new rules to accommodate this relatively new event. But not at the expense of the real purpose of the system.

The mls cannot make a rule that the seller not have short listings. So Sarah is doing her job very well, and at her own risk to the seller’s benefit.

Hope that sheds some light on this. It may not make people happy who only look at it from the buyer consumer or real estate voyeur side of things. Try not to do that and the real estate industry will become more transparent and clear to all.

I need to clearly state that I did not Cancel and relist. The listing Expired and I relisted it. There is a difference, and I do understand how that might be confusing to the public or those without quality agent representation. This practice is not intended to deceive anyone, and is considered legal and ethical to the MLS and agent to agent.

On CL your classified expires in 7 days, making reposting mandatory.

Not so on the MLS.

I got a similar explanation a few days ago from Marlow.

Basically, a lot of agents are listing houses for short periods of time so they can “freshen it up” after it expires. This deceives everyone but those with MLS access.

She claims that days on the market extends across MLS numbers, so other realtors see the cumulative days, but the general public doesn’t get to see it on sites like Redfin, unless we hire those with a password.

The letter of the law is probably preserved, but the spirit?

Nice to see they get some hefty fines when they do violate the actual letter, though unfortunately the general public could never know enough to turn them in. They have to be spotted by another Realtor, and it doesn’t sound like that happens very often, though again, how would we even know.

Personally, I believe that this lack of transparency is harmful to the industry and will only serve to harm the industry and bolster representatives to consider legislative remedies. These shenanigans will probably speed the call for greater competition and a more even playing field with regard to proprietary information.

This system is broken.

Besides, there’s never a conflict or harm to the publich when they don’t have full information about the product for sale… such as how long it has been on the market. This is just another way that agents are showing they are more important than the truth, and of course their clients. The fact that a normal person (without an agent) cannot access this information puts that person at a disadvantage to negotiate for the property.

Remember, when you are the buyer, even though you have an “agent”, they are still trying to get the deal done so they can get paid. Anything that convinces you to buy is good for everyone but you.

John Doe