Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

29 responses to “2007 Not as Rosy as NWMLS Claims”

  1. Alan

    There is an old saying, “Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.”

    Some people find charts and numbers confusing. I can’t really hold it against them too much. I mean, it isn’t like they are working as certified public accountants or anything.

    Of course, that doesn’t mean I want to give any weight to what they have to say. In fact, by association it makes me want to give less weight to anything in the entire P-I. If I ran the paper, I would probably fire them for damaging perceived value.

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  2. frede

    wow, considering sales slipped after august, not only is the median going to be taken from pre-august period, it’s going to be abnormally weighted that way, since a larger-than-normal proportion of sales were before August. So the post-August picture will barely dent the number.
    Jan-Aug is already more than half the year.
    sales always pick up in warm months and slow in cold months.
    sales tanked after August.

    figure that 75% of sales for the year (a conservative estimate?) was before the August bust, and those sales’ prices were higher than those after.

    what will be interesting will be to see how the REIC cooks the books for 08.

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  3. Affluent Bitter Renter

    Cohen did a decent job of deconstructing the NWMLS press release (albeit with the usual RE agent spin quotes).

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  4. patient

    This kind of “creative reporting” by the mls kind of reminds me of “creative financing”. Both are stupid, we all know the fallout of the creative financing. I also honestly think that statements of appreciation does more harm than good to the market at this point. As the sales numbers show the majority of buyers has picked up on the reality and are now waiting for a substantial decline before pulling the trigger. It’s not even annoying anymore instead kind of amusing.

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  5. rose-colored-coolaid

    I find this marginally disappointing. Either way. If it’s intentional, then it’s just another final(?) nail in the coffin that the entire industry is so corrupt that only government oversight (groan) might solve the problem. If Alan’s suggestion that it is incompetence, then that’s even worst in my book. We hear all day about how rotten the school system is right now, but it’s the people already out there who can’t seem to figure out the basics. If the ‘experts’ don’t understand the fundamentals of statistics, then it’s no surprise the Jones’ couldn’t figure that NINJA loans are unaffordable.

    I think every possible explanation for this data is depressing.

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  6. WestSideBilly

    In fact, by association it makes me want to give less weight to anything in the entire P-I. If I ran the paper, I would probably fire them for damaging perceived value.

    No doubt. Since I moved here, the P-I has fallen out of favor with me by publishing NAR’s spin articles. This “article” was on the front page this morning. Real estate listings obviously pay a lot of the bills, but until they start marking these types of articles as “paid advertisement” I’m losing faith in the credibility of anything else the publish.

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  7. Angie

    Tim, thanks for posting those graphs. (For those who’ve wondered why I hang out here—it’s all about the math, baby. Love those numbers.)

    The second graph is practically a textbook illustration that *how* you present data influences the messages you send. The bars for the 2006 and 2007 medians are all sort of fluctuating in a narrow range and the changes don’t look too dramatic. The YOY percent change graph in the background looks like Amageddon.

    Both matter, in their own ways. It’s a mistake to focus on one while ignoring the other. Hence my comments recently that even though the YOY went to the negative in December, overall prices are still way out of “affordable” range.

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  8. Markor

    Anyone who has actually been paying attention to the market knows that something is fishy about that 7.1% figure.

    Esp. since a YOY median price decline was reported like three weeks ago.

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  9. Matthew

    A tale of two markets indeed. The first market was taking place when financing was running rampant and everyone with a pulse could receive financing.

    The second market was after the credit crunch started to impact the market and lending tightened. But wait, I thought loose lending was what was driving housing?! I thought it was jobs, no more land, immigration and pink ponies!!!

    2008 aka the darkest year the U.S. has seen in decades, will be impossible to spin positive.

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  10. Matthew

    Sorry that sentence should read: But wait, I thought loose lending was NOT what was driving housing?!

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  11. Joel

    Angie,

    You’re intoning that The Tim purposely made the graphs look “bad”, but really I think he just made them in the most rational way. Each scale on the Y axes goes from just below the lowest number (or lowest possible number in the case of median price) to just above the highest number. If he really wanted things to look “bad” he could’ve set the median price scale to start at $450k and go to $600k which would make it look like prices were rocketing up (BUBBLE!) and then plummeting after August (BUBBLE POPPED, TOLD YA SO!). What could he have possibly done to make the YOY percentage graph not look “like Amageddon [sic]“? If he had increased the limits on the Y axis it would have sqished the graph down and left a ton of useless whitespace.

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  12. Garth

    If you head over to zillow it is pretty easy to see what is going on with the median.

    Just look at jumbo houses (over 417,000 + 20%) in any zip code and flip the recent sales month between 6, 3 and 1 month.

    With 100% financing gone and jumbos harder to get, the median price is even more useless than before.

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  13. AndyMiami

    I am a bit concerned with the potential bail out of the monoline insurance companies (AMBAC, etc..) that was in the press today, which led to a 600 point up swing in the DOW today. Combined with very low home mortgage interest rates, the masses may believe that we had a quick downturn and now all is stabilized. I understand that qualifying for a mortgage is a new ballgame, were you actually have to show your tax returns; however, because Seattle was late in the run up, and just starting to decrease, we may see a pick up in prices over the next few months. Think of it as the dead cat bounce in the stock markets..I hope that I am wrong…

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  14. Garth

    I don’t think the bounce today had much to do with dodd’s plan.

    Today was all Bernanke and his masterful use of the international market data for the MLK holiday.

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  15. Garth

    Today being tuesday :)

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  16. deejayoh

    Just look at jumbo houses (over 417,000 + 20%) in any zip code and flip the recent sales month between 6, 3 and 1 month.

    Garth – Interesting approach, but don’t think you can draw any conclusions

    1) viewing 6 months of sales should in any case show many more sales than the 3 month or one month view. 2 to 6 times as many, as a matter of fact…
    2) except the shorter periods reflect traditionally “slow” months, where the longer period includes the “hot” months of summer

    So I’d be amazed what you see this year wasn’t pretty close to the same you’d see any year, or for any price range this year.

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  17. Albuquerque realtor

    Garth,

    You have some pretty interesting info. Thanks for sharing the info about Zillow and the jumbo house situation!

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  18. Kime

    I know I’m being nit picky, but effect can only be used as a verb when it means “to cause to come into being”. What you meant was “…to affect the entire-year median less and less each month.”

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  19. Gary

    This is extemely frustrating when here is the news today http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080124/economy.html
    Also, Mr Yun is quoted here as saying “Lawrence Yun, the Realtors’ chief economist, said it was likely that the country has not experienced a decline in housing prices for an entire year since the Great Depression of the 1930s.”
    What a comment eh?

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  20. Everett_Tom

    Annnnnnd, a wall street journal article which specifically mentions that Seattle will most likely decline….

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120111917285710781.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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  21. Hollyrocket

    Why would anyone use “analysis” from salespeople? The MLS is a cooperative owned by real estate brokers.
    Their “data” is always skewed in favor of home ownership and as a result is a conflict of interest.
    Imagine if we used data from corporations, that we had no access to in order to validate, to give us a clear picture of the market?

    They would skew it every time.

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  22. declinest

    inflation was 4.1% last year. some gain.

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  23. [troll]

    Bst tm t by s – nw!

    NWS LRT
    frm Th Wll Strt Jrnl

    Jn. 24, 2008

    xstng-hm sls fll 2.2% t 4.89 mlln nnl rt n Dcmbr, ccrdng t th Ntnl ssctn f Rltrs. Th mdn hm prc ls dclnd t $208,400 n Dcmbr, dwn 6% frm $221,600 n Dcmbr 2006. nvntrs f hms fll 7.4% t th nd f lst mnth t 3.91 mlln vlbl fr sl, whch rprsntd 9.6-mnth spply t th crrnt sls pc. Sls f sngl-fmly xstng hms fll by 13% n 2007, th bggst drp n 25 yrs.

    rlr Thrsdy, th Lbr Dprtmnt sd th nmbr f .S. wrkrs flng nw clms fr nmplymnt bnfts fll lst wk fr frth-strght wk, sggstng tht rslnt lbr mrkt t th strt f th yr mght kp th cnmy frm sldng nt rcssn.< hrf="#" clss="rplyt" nclck="rplyt('37690','∓#91;trll∓#93;','25'); rtrn fls;">Rply – < hrf="#" clss="qt" nclck="qt('37690','∓#91;trll∓#93;','Bst tm t by s - nw!\r\n\r\nNWS LRT\r\nfrm Th Wll Strt Jrnl\r\n\r\n\r\nJn. 24, 2008\r\n\r\nxstng-hm sls fll 2.2% t 4.89 mlln nnl rt n Dcmbr, ccrdng t th Ntnl ssctn f Rltrs. Th mdn hm prc ls dclnd t $208,400 n Dcmbr, dwn 6% frm $221,600 n Dcmbr 2006. nvntrs f hms fll 7.4% t th nd f lst mnth t 3.91 mlln vlbl fr sl, whch rprsntd 9.6-mnth spply t th crrnt sls pc. Sls f sngl-fmly xstng hms fll by 13% n 2007, th bggst drp n 25 yrs.\r\n\r\nrlr Thrsdy, th Lbr Dprtmnt sd th nmbr f .S. wrkrs flng nw clms fr nmplymnt bnfts fll lst wk fr frth-strght wk, sggstng tht rslnt lbr mrkt t th strt f th yr mght kp th cnmy frm sldng nt rcssn.','25'); rtrn fls;">Qt

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  24. sf_boomerang

    Wait, I thought the best time to buy was LAST month. And the month before that. And the month before that…

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  25. jon

    Another possible cause of the gyrations in the market may have been fraud:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=510089&in_page_id=1811

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  26. Helen Traven

    Hi everyone- I read about single family homes on here quite a bit, as expected, but I wonder if duplexes and triplexes are in the same boat. Are their prices more stable because the inventory is more limited and less subject to variations?

    Thanks for your insight. I find this site very informative.

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  27. Friday Flashback: "Prices more than held their own." • Seattle Bubble

    [...] Except it wasn’t a surprise if you actually bothered to look at the 2007 data with a critical eye, as I pointed out in my post at the time: [...]

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