Comments on: Follow-Up: Ugly Townhome Forum http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/ News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:02:55 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: McMansions, Condo Conversions, Delays, & Sunny Ballard | Seattle Bubble — News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area. http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-50975 McMansions, Condo Conversions, Delays, & Sunny Ballard | Seattle Bubble — News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area. Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:01:05 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-50975 [...] the Seattle City Council is apparently in a development-regulating mood lately. Not only are they tackling the ugly townhome issue, now they’re going after “megahomes” as well. After years of complaints about [...]<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('50975','McMansions, Condo Conversions, Delays, & Sunny Ballard | Seattle Bubble — News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area.',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('50975','McMansions, Condo Conversions, Delays, & Sunny Ballard | Seattle Bubble — News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area.','[...] the Seattle City Council is apparently in a development-regulating mood lately. Not only are they tackling the ugly townhome issue, now they’re going after “megahomes” as well. After years of complaints about [...]',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> [...] the Seattle City Council is apparently in a development-regulating mood lately. Not only are they tackling the ugly townhome issue, now they’re going after “megahomes” as well. After years of complaints about [...]
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]]> By: Civil Servant http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49856 Civil Servant Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:51:02 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49856 Jon: Yes! A fantastic idea. And if the four people/families who live in the townhouse complex all share that car, think about all the extra space that's freed up for nice design and/or shared outdoor space. I appreciate attention being paid to The Townhouse Problem, but the solutions-seeking approach thus far does not challenge certain orthodoxies which to me seem weak, especially as market conditions have begun to change.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49856','Civil Servant',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49856','Civil Servant','Jon: Yes! A fantastic idea. And if the four people\/families who live in the townhouse complex all share that car, think about all the extra space that\'s freed up for nice design and\/or shared outdoor space. I appreciate attention being paid to The Townhouse Problem, but the solutions-seeking approach thus far does not challenge certain orthodoxies which to me seem weak, especially as market conditions have begun to change.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Jon: Yes! A fantastic idea. And if the four people/families who live in the townhouse complex all share that car, think about all the extra space that’s freed up for nice design and/or shared outdoor space. I appreciate attention being paid to The Townhouse Problem, but the solutions-seeking approach thus far does not challenge certain orthodoxies which to me seem weak, especially as market conditions have begun to change.
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]]> By: jon http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49832 jon Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:55:22 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49832 Zipcars seems centered around places where people work rather than where they live. I was thinking in terms of matching it to where residential parking is a problem. Obviously, Zipcar would have thought of that. Their model is patterned after car rentals. I thinking more on the lines of shared ownership. (That would get around this bit of retardedness: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279983_flexcar14m.html). So the financing would be based up front on a buy-in by a group of users, rather than recovered as a rental. People would only be sharing the cards with their neighbors. I could be wrong, but based on the comments of others, Zipcar doesn't seem to have a way to reserve a car.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49832','jon',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49832','jon','Zipcars seems centered around places where people work rather than where they live. I was thinking in terms of matching it to where residential parking is a problem. Obviously, Zipcar would have thought of that.\r\n\r\nTheir model is patterned after car rentals. I thinking more on the lines of shared ownership. (That would get around this bit of retardedness: http:\/\/seattletimes.nwsource.com\/html\/localnews\/2004279983_flexcar14m.html).\r\n\r\nSo the financing would be based up front on a buy-in by a group of users, rather than recovered as a rental. People would only be sharing the cards with their neighbors.\r\n\r\nI could be wrong, but based on the comments of others, Zipcar doesn\'t seem to have a way to reserve a car.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Zipcars seems centered around places where people work rather than where they live. I was thinking in terms of matching it to where residential parking is a problem. Obviously, Zipcar would have thought of that.

Their model is patterned after car rentals. I thinking more on the lines of shared ownership. (That would get around this bit of retardedness: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004279983_flexcar14m.html).

So the financing would be based up front on a buy-in by a group of users, rather than recovered as a rental. People would only be sharing the cards with their neighbors.

I could be wrong, but based on the comments of others, Zipcar doesn’t seem to have a way to reserve a car.

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]]> By: The Tim http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49825 The Tim Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:08:32 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49825 Jon, is what you're describing significantly different than <a href="http://www.zipcar.com/" title="Zipcar" rel="nofollow">Zipcar</a>?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49825','The Tim',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49825','The Tim','Jon, is what you\'re describing significantly different than <a href=\"http:\/\/www.zipcar.com\/\" title=\"Zipcar\" rel=\"nofollow\">Zipcar<\/a>?',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Jon, is what you’re describing significantly different than Zipcar?
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]]> By: jon http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49823 jon Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:06:40 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49823 There seems to be a market here for a system for pooling ownership of a group of cars for a block. Residents would use a website, accessible from a cell phone, to reserve a car or take one if one is available. The cost would be apportioned based on time and mileage as determined by a computer on the car. A service could perform scheduled maintenance by making reservations on the cars ahead of time. The residents would decide what types of cars to purchase and decide how many to buy.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49823','jon',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49823','jon','There seems to be a market here for a system for pooling ownership of a group of cars for a block. Residents would use a website, accessible from a cell phone, to reserve a car or take one if one is available. The cost would be apportioned based on time and mileage as determined by a computer on the car. A service could perform scheduled maintenance by making reservations on the cars ahead of time. The residents would decide what types of cars to purchase and decide how many to buy.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> There seems to be a market here for a system for pooling ownership of a group of cars for a block. Residents would use a website, accessible from a cell phone, to reserve a car or take one if one is available. The cost would be apportioned based on time and mileage as determined by a computer on the car. A service could perform scheduled maintenance by making reservations on the cars ahead of time. The residents would decide what types of cars to purchase and decide how many to buy.
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]]> By: The Tim http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49798 The Tim Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:36:57 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49798 Thanks Andy, I saw it and plan to read the full thing today. See <a href="http://seattlebubble.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1385" rel="nofollow">this discussion on the forum</a>.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49798','The Tim',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49798','The Tim','Thanks Andy, I saw it and plan to read the full thing today. See <a href=\"http:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/forum\/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1385\" rel=\"nofollow\">this discussion on the forum<\/a>.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Thanks Andy, I saw it and plan to read the full thing today. See this discussion on the forum.
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]]> By: AndyMiami http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49797 AndyMiami Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:33:57 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49797 Tim, In case you missed this article in the Puget Sound Business Journal comparing San Diego and Seattle and how Seattle has seen the worst... http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/06/09/story1.html<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49797','AndyMiami',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49797','AndyMiami','Tim,\r\n\r\nIn case you missed this article in the Puget Sound Business Journal comparing San Diego and Seattle and how Seattle has seen the worst...\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/seattle.bizjournals.com\/seattle\/stories\/2008\/06\/09\/story1.html',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Tim,

In case you missed this article in the Puget Sound Business Journal comparing San Diego and Seattle and how Seattle has seen the worst…

http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2008/06/09/story1.html

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]]> By: Civil Servant http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/06/09/follow-up-ugly-townhome-forum/#comment-49796 Civil Servant Mon, 09 Jun 2008 18:25:26 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2021#comment-49796 I will add one observation to what is an extremely comprehensive report. Record writes, "Councilmember Burgess asked what would stop the city from repealing the ULS rules and imopsing a moratorium; Duffus replied, 'I think you would kill development in Seattle...'" At that point there was WILD applause. The "not a civil way to live" line, delivered with great passion, also earned applause. This is perhaps OT, but two concepts that kept coming up were "design around the automobile" and "design around the context of the neighborhood." I wonder who will be the first to acknowledge that these goals are at cross purposes and that in very few contexts -- and only at a high, SFH-equivalent price point -- is it going to be possible to have both at the same time. Why *not* put it to the market? I am sure there are some young hipsters out there (I bet I know some) who could be induced to give up their cars in exchange for the opportunity to live a little more centrally and a little more affordably in a well-built, attractive townhouse flexible enough to suit their changing needs and priorities over the next x years. Or what if they could pay HOA-type dues to retain a parking space in a garage some distance away, for occasional errands and weekend trips out of town? Is the car the priority, or is design? I wish the Council would step up and bring this question into the discussion. Also, at the forum there was Top Pot coffee and donuts, in case anyone is on the fence about going to future such events. Thanks, Sally Clark!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('49796','Civil Servant',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('49796','Civil Servant','I will add one observation to what is an extremely comprehensive report. Record writes, \"Councilmember Burgess asked what would stop the city from repealing the ULS rules and imopsing a moratorium; Duffus replied, \'I think you would kill development in Seattle...\'\" \r\n\r\nAt that point there was WILD applause. The \"not a civil way to live\" line, delivered with great passion, also earned applause.\r\n\r\nThis is perhaps OT, but two concepts that kept coming up were \"design around the automobile\" and \"design around the context of the neighborhood.\" I wonder who will be the first to acknowledge that these goals are at cross purposes and that in very few contexts -- and only at a high, SFH-equivalent price point -- is it going to be possible to have both at the same time. Why *not* put it to the market? I am sure there are some young hipsters out there (I bet I know some) who could be induced to give up their cars in exchange for the opportunity to live a little more centrally and a little more affordably in a well-built, attractive townhouse flexible enough to suit their changing needs and priorities over the next x years. Or what if they could pay HOA-type dues to retain a parking space in a garage some distance away, for occasional errands and weekend trips out of town? Is the car the priority, or is design? I wish the Council would step up and bring this question into the discussion.\r\n\r\nAlso, at the forum there was Top Pot coffee and donuts, in case anyone is on the fence about going to future such events. Thanks, Sally Clark!',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> I will add one observation to what is an extremely comprehensive report. Record writes, “Councilmember Burgess asked what would stop the city from repealing the ULS rules and imopsing a moratorium; Duffus replied, ‘I think you would kill development in Seattle…’”

At that point there was WILD applause. The “not a civil way to live” line, delivered with great passion, also earned applause.

This is perhaps OT, but two concepts that kept coming up were “design around the automobile” and “design around the context of the neighborhood.” I wonder who will be the first to acknowledge that these goals are at cross purposes and that in very few contexts — and only at a high, SFH-equivalent price point — is it going to be possible to have both at the same time. Why *not* put it to the market? I am sure there are some young hipsters out there (I bet I know some) who could be induced to give up their cars in exchange for the opportunity to live a little more centrally and a little more affordably in a well-built, attractive townhouse flexible enough to suit their changing needs and priorities over the next x years. Or what if they could pay HOA-type dues to retain a parking space in a garage some distance away, for occasional errands and weekend trips out of town? Is the car the priority, or is design? I wish the Council would step up and bring this question into the discussion.

Also, at the forum there was Top Pot coffee and donuts, in case anyone is on the fence about going to future such events. Thanks, Sally Clark!

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