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Independence Day Open Thread

Posted by The Tim on July 4th, 2008 at 10:03 AM · 14 Comments

Happy Independence Day, everybody.

Here’s an open thread.  Feel free to discuss whatever you want.

Categories: Administrative · Open Thread
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14 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Greg Perry's avatar Greg Perry // Jul 4, 2008 at 10:47 am

    I’m grateful for the wisdom of our founding fathers, first for Declaring Independence, and then creating one of the finest documents created by man, The Constitution of the United States. In the First Amendment of our Constitution, is our Freedom of Speech.

    It’s been tested here at times, here. :)

    Happy Independence Day, everyone!

  • 2 jon's avatar jon // Jul 4, 2008 at 11:38 am

    A fire came within 300 feet of my sisters house in California yesterday, so we are all grateful the fire didn’t get closer, and I’m grateful for our gorgeous, rainy mountain and lakes up here.

    God Bless America.

  • 3 softwarengineer's avatar softwarengineer // Jul 4, 2008 at 2:19 pm

    THEY GAVE THEIR LIVES AND MORE SIGNING THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE

    This came from our military fighting in Iraq:

    “….The Americans Who Risked Everything

    My father, Rush H. Limbaugh, Jr., delivered this oft-requested address locally a number of times, but it had

    never before appeared in print until it appeared in The Limbaugh Letter. My dad was renowned for his oratory

    skills and for his original mind; this speech is, I think, a superb demonstration of both. I will always be grateful

    to him for instilling in me a passion for the ideas and lives of America’s Founders, as well as a deep

    appreciation for the inspirational power of words which you will see evidenced here:

    “Our Lives, Our Fortunes, Our Sacred Honor”

    It was a glorious morning. The sun was shining and the wind was from the southeast. Up especially early, a tall

    bony, redheaded young Virginian found time to buy a new thermometer, for which he paid three pounds, fifteen

    shillings. He also bought gloves for Martha, his wife, who was ill at home.

    Thomas Jefferson arrived early at the statehouse. The temperature was 72.5 degrees and the horseflies

    weren’t nearly so bad at that hour. It was a lovely room, very large, with gleaming white walls. The chairs were

    comfortable. Facing the single door were two brass fireplaces, but they would not be used today.

    The moment the door was shut, and it was always kept locked, the room

    became an oven. The tall windows were shut, so that loud quarreling voices

    could not be heard by passersby. Small openings atop the windows allowed

    a slight stir of air, and also a large number of horseflies. Jefferson records

    that “the horseflies were dexterous in finding necks, and the silk of

    stockings was nothing to them.” All discussing was punctuated by the slap

    of hands on necks.

    On the wall at the back, facing the president’s desk, was a panoply –

    consisting of a drum, swords, and banners seized from Fort Ticonderoga

    the previous year. Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold had captured the place,

    shouting that they were taking it “in the name of the Great Jehovah and the

    Continental Congress!”

    Now Congress got to work, promptly taking up an emergency measure

    about which there was discussion but no dissension. “Resolved: That an

    application be made to the Committee of Safety of Pennsylvania for a

    supply of flints for the troops at New York.”

    Then Congress transformed itself into a committee of the whole. The Declaration of Independence was read

    aloud once more, and debate resumed. Though Jefferson was the best writer of all of them, he had been

    somewhat verbose. Congress hacked the excess away. They did a good job, as a side-by-side comparison of

    the rough draft and the final text shows. They cut the phrase “by a self-assumed power.” “Climb” was replaced

    by “must read,” then “must” was eliminated, then the whole sentence, and soon the whole paragraph was cut.

    Jefferson groaned as they continued what he later called “their depredations.” “Inherent and inalienable rights”

    came out “certain unalienable rights,” and to this day no one knows who suggested the elegant change.

    A total of 86 alterations were made. Almost 500 words were eliminated, leaving 1,337. At last, after three days

    of wrangling, the document was put to a vote.

    Here in this hall Patrick Henry had once thundered: “I am no longer a Virginian, sir, but an American.” But

    today the loud, sometimes bitter argument stilled, and without fanfare the vote was taken from north to south

    by colonies, as was the custom. On July 4, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was adopted.

    There were no trumpets blown. No one stood on his chair and cheered. The afternoon was waning and

    Congress had no thought of delaying the full calendar of routine business on its hands. For several hours they

    worked on many other problems before adjourning for the day.

    Much To Lose

    What kind of men were the 56 signers who adopted the Declaration of Independence and who, by their

    signing, committed an act of treason against the crown? To each of you, the names Franklin, Adams, Hancock

    and Jefferson are almost as familiar as household words. Most of us, however, know nothing of the other

    signers. Who were they? What happened to them?

    I imagine that many of you are somewhat surprised at the names not there: George Washington, Alexander

    Hamilton, Patrick Henry. All were elsewhere.

    Ben Franklin was the only really old man. Eighteen were under 40; three

    were in their 20s. Of the 56 almost half - 24 - were judges and lawyers.

    Eleven were merchants, nine were landowners and farmers, and the

    remaining 12 were doctors, ministers, and politicians.

    With only a few exceptions, such as Samuel Adams of Massachusetts, these

    were men of substantial property. All but two had families. The vast majority

    were men of education and standing in their communities. They had

    economic security as few men had in the 18th Century.

    Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it. John

    Hancock, one of the richest men in America, already had a price of 500

    pounds on his head. He signed in enormous letters so that his Majesty could

    now read his name without glasses and could now double the reward. Ben

    Franklin wryly noted: “Indeed we must all hang together, otherwise we shall

    most assuredly hang separately.”

    Fat Benjamin Harrison of Virginia told tiny Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts:

    “With me it will all be over in a minute, but you, you will be dancing on air an

    hour after I am gone.”

    These men knew what they risked. The penalty for treason was death by hanging. And remember, a great

    British fleet was already at anchor in New York Harbor.

    They were sober men. There were no dreamy-eyed intellectuals or draft card burners here. They were far from

    hot-eyed fanatics yammering for an explosion. They simply asked for the status quo. It was change they

    resisted. It was equality with the mother country they desired. It was taxation with representation they sought.

    They were all conservatives, yet they rebelled.

    It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to Philadelphia. Two of them became presidents of

    the United States. Seven of them became state governors. One died in office as vice president of the United

    States. Several would go on to be U.S. Senators. One, the richest man in America, in 1828 founded the

    Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. One, a delegate from Philadelphia, was the only real poet, musician and

    philosopher of the signers. (It was he, Francis Hopkinson not Betsy Ross who designed the United States flag.)

    Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, had introduced the resolution to adopt the Declaration of

    Independence in June of 1776. He was prophetic in his concluding remarks: “Why then sir, why do we longer

    delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an American Republic. Let her arise not to

    devastate and to conquer but to reestablish the reign of peace and law.

    “The eyes of Europe are fixed upon us. She demands of us

    a living example of freedom that may exhibit a contrast in the

    felicity of the citizen to the ever-increasing tyranny which

    desolates her polluted shores. She invites us to prepare an

    asylum where the unhappy may find solace, and the

    persecuted repost.

    “If we are not this day wanting in our duty, the names of the

    American Legislatures of 1776 will be placed by posterity at

    the side of all of those whose memory has been and ever

    will be dear to virtuous men and good citizens.”

    Though the resolution was formally adopted July 4, it was not until July 8 that two of the states authorized their

    delegates to sign, and it was not until August 2 that the signers met at Philadelphia to actually put their names

    to the Declaration.

    William Ellery, delegate from Rhode Island, was curious to see the signers’ faces as they committed this

    supreme act of personal courage. He saw some men sign quickly, “but in no face was he able to discern real

    fear.” Stephan Hopkins, Ellery’s colleague from Rhode Island, was a man past 60. As he signed with a shaking

    pen, he declared: “My hand trembles, but my heart does not.”

    “Most Glorious Service”

    Even before the list was published, the British marked down every member of Congress suspected of having

    put his name to treason. All of them became the objects of vicious manhunts. Some were taken. Some, like

    Jefferson, had narrow escapes. All who had property or families near British strongholds suffered.

    · Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home

    plundered — and his estates in what is now Harlem –

    completely destroyed by British Soldiers. Mrs. Lewis was

    captured and treated with great brutality. Though she

    was later exchanged for two British prisoners through the

    efforts of Congress, she died from the effects of her

    abuse.

    · William Floyd, another New York delegate, was able to

    escape with his wife and children across Long Island

    Sound to Connecticut, where they lived as refugees

    without income for seven years. When they came home

    they found a devastated ruin.

    · Philips Livingstone had all his great holdings in New York confiscated and his family driven out of their home.

    Livingstone died in 1778 still working in Congress for the cause.

    · Louis Morris, the fourth New York delegate, saw all his timber, crops, and livestock taken. For seven years he

    was barred from his home and family.

    · John Hart of Trenton, New Jersey, risked his life to return home to see his dying wife. Hessian soldiers rode

    after him, and he escaped in the woods. While his wife lay on her deathbed, the soldiers ruined his farm and

    wrecked his homestead. Hart, 65, slept in caves and woods as he was hunted across the countryside. When at

    long last, emaciated by hardship, he was able to sneak home, he found his wife had already been buried, and

    his 13 children taken away. He never saw them again. He died a broken man in 1779, without ever finding his

    family.

    · Dr. John Witherspoon, signer, was president of the College of New Jersey, later called Princeton. The British

    occupied the town of Princeton, and billeted troops in the college. They trampled and burned the finest college

    library in the country.

    · Judge Richard Stockton, another New Jersey delegate signer, had rushed back to his estate in an effort to

    evacuate his wife and children. The family found refuge with friends, but a Tory sympathizer betrayed them.

    Judge Stockton was pulled from bed in the night and brutally beaten by the arresting soldiers. Thrown into a

    common jail, he was deliberately starved. Congress finally arranged for Stockton’s parole, but his health was

    ruined. The judge was released as an invalid, when he could no longer harm the British cause. He returned

    home to find his estate looted and did not live to see the triumph of the Revolution. His family was forced to live

    off charity.

    · Robert Morris, merchant prince of Philadelphia, delegate and signer, met

    Washington’s appeals and pleas for money year after year. He made and

    raised arms and provisions which made it possible for Washington to cross

    the Delaware at Trenton. In the process he lost 150 ships at sea, bleeding

    his own fortune and credit almost dry.

    · George Clymer, Pennsylvania signer, escaped with his family from their

    home, but their property was completely destroyed by the British in the

    Germantown and Brandywine campaigns.

    · Dr. Benjamin Rush, also from Pennsylvania, was forced to flee to Maryland. As a heroic surgeon with the

    army, Rush had several narrow escapes.

    · John Martin, a Tory in his views previous to the debate, lived in a strongly loyalist area of Pennsylvania.

    When he came out for independence, most of his neighbors and even some of his relatives ostracized him. He

    was a sensitive and troubled man, and many believed this action killed him. When he died in 1777, his last

    words to his tormentors were: “Tell them that they will live to see the hour when they shall acknowledge it [the

    signing] to have been the most glorious service that I have ever rendered to my country.”

    · William Ellery, Rhode Island delegate, saw his property and home burned to the ground.

    · Thomas Lynch, Jr., South Carolina delegate, had his health broken from privation and exposures while

    serving as a company commander in the military. His doctors ordered him to seek a cure in the West Indies

    and on the voyage; he and his young bride were drowned at sea.

    · Edward Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward, Jr., the other three South Carolina signers, were

    taken by the British in the siege of Charleston. They were carried as

    prisoners of war to St. Augustine, Florida, where they were singled out

    for indignities. They were exchanged at the end of the war, the British

    in the meantime having completely devastated their large

    landholdings and estates.

    · Thomas Nelson, signer of Virginia, was at the front in command of

    the Virginia military forces. With British General Charles Cornwallis in

    Yorktown, fire from 70 heavy American guns began to destroy

    Yorktown piece by piece. Lord Cornwallis and his staff moved their

    headquarters into Nelson’s palatial home. While American cannonballs were making a shambles of the town,

    the house of Governor Nelson remained untouched. Nelson turned in rage to the American gunners and

    asked, “Why do you spare my home?” They replied, “Sir, out of respect to you.” Nelson cried, “Give me the

    cannon!” and fired on his magnificent home himself, smashing it to bits. But Nelson’s sacrifice was not quite

    over. He had raised $2 million for the Revolutionary cause by pledging his own estates. When the loans came

    due, a newer peacetime Congress refused to honor them, and Nelson’s property was forfeited. He was never

    reimbursed. He died, impoverished, a few years later at the age of 50.

    Lives, Fortunes, Honor

    Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war.

    Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire

    families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were at one time or another the victims

    of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost

    everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his pledged word. Their honor, and the nation

    they sacrificed so much to create is still intact.

    And, finally, there is the New Jersey signer, Abraham Clark.

    He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They were

    captured and sent to that infamous British prison hulk afloat in New York Harbor

    known as the hell ship Jersey, where 11,000 American captives were to die. The

    younger Clarks were treated with a special brutality because of their father. One

    was put in solitary and given no food. With the end almost in sight, with the war

    almost won, no one could have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British

    request when they offered him his sons’ lives if he would recant and come out for

    the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man’s heart, the anguish in his

    very soul, must reach out to each one of us down through 200 years with his

    answer: “No.”

    The 56 signers of the Declaration Of Independence proved by their every deed

    that they made no idle boast when they composed the most magnificent curtain

    line in history. “And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine

    providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.”

    My friends, I know you have a copy of the Declaration of Independence somewhere around the house - in an old

    history book (newer ones may well omit it), an encyclopedia, or one of those artificially aged “parchments” we

    all got in school years ago. I suggest that each of you take the time this month to read through the text of the

    Declaration, one of the most noble and beautiful political documents in human history.

    There is no more profound sentence than this: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created

    equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life,

    Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness…”

    These are far more than mere poetic words. The underlying ideas that infuse every sentence of this treatise have

    sustained this nation for more than two centuries. They were forged in the crucible of great sacrifice. They are

    living words that spring from and satisfy the deepest cries for liberty in the human spirit.

    “Sacred honor” isn’t a phrase we use much these days, but every American life is touched by the bounty of this,

    the Founders’ legacy. It is freedom, tested by blood, and watered with tears.

    - Rush Limbaugh III…”

  • 4 born in seattle's avatar born in seattle // Jul 4, 2008 at 4:03 pm

    Nice to know how STRONG of character our forefathers all were.
    Thanks.

  • 5 Scotsman's avatar Scotsman // Jul 4, 2008 at 7:52 pm

    Happy Fourth to all!

  • 6 Vera Brodsky's avatar Vera Brodsky // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    I am thankful to this country. As an immigrant from the former Soviet Union I know first hand what independence is! This country is an amazing place and we should be thankful EVERY DAY for living here! In no other place in the world would someone from a different culture achieve all their dreams and become ONE of the Americans without being born here. We should be proud as this country does not know nationality! We are all Americans and the whole world is jealous that we are who we are. And we can be who we want to be! And housing recession, markets swings will go away but we will have our lives, our independence and our freedom! GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  • 7 Richard's avatar Richard // Jul 5, 2008 at 5:12 pm

    Me too! I was in the same boat. I came here 35 years ago with a few hundred dollars and a luggage of my basic necessity. I spoke broken English and people teased my accent. However, I did not whine and complain. I determined to fulfill my American dream. Through my hard-work and tenacity, I have become one of the top 2% taxpayers in the country. My recipe is simple: get a good education; be humble; respect your co-workers; apply yourself; don’t live on credit.

    I traveled many parts of the world. I have yet to find a place that is better than here. Yes, we have encountered countless problems in the past. However, we have the best ship to sail through the storm each time. GOD BLESS AMERICA!

  • 8 Eleua's avatar Eleua // Jul 5, 2008 at 10:16 pm

    Trivia question: What day did the majority of signers of the DoI commit their signatures?

  • 9 TJ_98370's avatar TJ_98370 // Jul 5, 2008 at 11:22 pm

    Eleua - Friday, August 2, 1776.

  • 10 TJ_98370's avatar TJ_98370 // Jul 6, 2008 at 7:21 am

    Am I right? Am I right?

  • 11 Eleua's avatar Eleua // Jul 6, 2008 at 11:11 am

    TJ is correct.

  • 12 Eleua's avatar Eleua // Jul 6, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    4/19/75 - Lexington/Concord
    7/4/76 - Traditional DoI date
    8/2/76 - Actual DoI date
    10/19/81 - Yorktown Surrender of Cornwallis
    9/3/83 - Treaty of Paris signed by Great Britain
    1/14/84 - Treaty of Paris ratified by Congress
    9/17/87 - US Constitution adopted
    6/21/88 - Constitution ratified.

    I say we have fireworks on all these days. What is your pick for the actual birthdate of the United States?

  • 13 jon's avatar jon // Jul 6, 2008 at 1:35 pm

    http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/account/acc3.htm

    Accord to Thomas Jefferson, “The debates having taken up the greater parts of the 2d 3d & 4th days of July were, in the evening of the last, closed the declaration was reported by the committee, agreed to by the house and signed by every member present except Mr. Dickinson.”

    http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/timeline.htm

    July 1-4 Congress debates and revises the Declaration of Independence.

    July 2 Congress declares independence as the British fleet and army arrive at New York.

    July 4 Congress adopts the Declaration of Independence in the morning of a bright, sunny, but cool Philadelphia day. John Dunlap prints the Declaration of Independence. These prints are now called “Dunlap Broadsides.” Twenty-four copies are known to exist, two of which are in the Library of Congress. One of these was Washington’s personal copy.

    August 2 Delegates begin to sign engrossed copy of the Declaration of Independence. A large British reinforcement arrives at New York after being repelled at Charleston, S.C.

  • 14 TJ_98370's avatar TJ_98370 // Jul 6, 2008 at 8:41 pm

    Eleua says:

    TJ is correct.

    Woohoooo! I win! I win the secret prize!

    I’ll send my address via e-mail for delivery of my very own PINK PONY! I will be the envy of every insane person on my block! Wooohooooo!

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