Comments on: WCRER: Affordability Drops Again http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/ local real estate news, statistics, and commentary without the sales spin. Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:22:25 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: david loshhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54612 david losh Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:41:27 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54612 um. Dave, you are looking at the wrong axis. The blue and red lines refer to the left axis (affordability index). The right axis (price) refers only the green line…

hmmm…

Reply – Quote
]]> By: Cheapseatshttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54606 Cheapseats Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:46:17 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54606 Mikal @ 22,I don't disagree with you, in that it is not your responsibility to worry about whether joe shmo can afford a starter home. Nor do I begin to follow Dave Losh. But as a prospective buyer in Seattle, I am concerned about affordability for first time buyers in that that sector heavily influences all housing sectors. It has nothing to do with my ability to buy, it is a factor in purchasing motivation.If all people who cant afford to buy do move, then I would likely find more motivation to delay purchasing a home. A healthy first time buyer customer base would seem to be more indicative of a healthy housing market. I dont think I am whining, I just have indicators that would make me feel better about my purchase decision.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54606','Cheapseats',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54606','Cheapseats','Mikal @ 22,\r\n\r\nI don\'t disagree with you, in that it is not your responsibility to worry about whether joe shmo can afford a starter home. Nor do I begin to follow Dave Losh. But as a prospective buyer in Seattle, I am concerned about affordability for first time buyers in that that sector heavily influences all housing sectors. It has nothing to do with my ability to buy, it is a factor in purchasing motivation. \r\n\r\nIf all people who cant afford to buy do move, then I would likely find more motivation to delay purchasing a home. A healthy first time buyer customer base would seem to be more indicative of a healthy housing market. I dont think I am whining, I just have indicators that would make me feel better about my purchase decision.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Mikal @ 22,

I don’t disagree with you, in that it is not your responsibility to worry about whether joe shmo can afford a starter home. Nor do I begin to follow Dave Losh. But as a prospective buyer in Seattle, I am concerned about affordability for first time buyers in that that sector heavily influences all housing sectors. It has nothing to do with my ability to buy, it is a factor in purchasing motivation.

If all people who cant afford to buy do move, then I would likely find more motivation to delay purchasing a home. A healthy first time buyer customer base would seem to be more indicative of a healthy housing market. I dont think I am whining, I just have indicators that would make me feel better about my purchase decision.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: mikalhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54604 mikal Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:11:32 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54604 My point is, If you you can't afford it, move. When I moved here I couldn't afford it. Did I whine about it? Nope. I took on another job. I don't give a rats @@@ if people can afford it.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54604','mikal',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54604','mikal','My point is, If you you can\'t afford it, move. When I moved here I couldn\'t afford it. Did I whine about it? Nope. I took on another job. I don\'t give a rats @@@ if people can afford it.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> My point is, If you you can’t afford it, move. When I moved here I couldn’t afford it. Did I whine about it? Nope. I took on another job. I don’t give a rats @@@ if people can afford it.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: TJ_98370http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54600 TJ_98370 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:21:39 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54600 It’s just semantics, but the term “worker housing unit” makes me envision a stark run-down apartment building in some communist country, where underpaid factory workers would live. The term has a negative connotation IMO.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: TJ_98370http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54598 TJ_98370 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:02:26 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54598 Mikal –
.
Minimum wage is not a living wage in the Seattle metropolitan area. Has it ever been? It is extremely over-optimistic to think that minimum wage earners should be able to buy a home in the Seattle area with conventional financing. If my tacit acknowledgement of this economic reality makes me condescending or elitist, then I am guilty as charged.
.
Minimum wage in Washington State is $8.07 per hour right now. The median household income in Seattle is three to four times this amount and even these households are having a difficult time affording a median priced “worker housing unit”.
.
What is your point again, Mikal?
.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: deejayohhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54597 deejayoh Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:44:49 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54597 <blockquote>Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond.</blockquote>um. Dave, you are looking at the wrong axis. The blue and red lines refer to the left axis (affordability index). The right axis (price) refers only the green line...<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54597','deejayoh',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54597','deejayoh','<blockquote>Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond.<\/blockquote>\r\n\r\num. Dave, you are looking at the wrong axis. The blue and red lines refer to the left axis (affordability index). The right axis (price) refers only the green line...',''); return false;">Quote</a></div>

Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond.

um. Dave, you are looking at the wrong axis. The blue and red lines refer to the left axis (affordability index). The right axis (price) refers only the green line…

Reply – Quote
]]> By: Ira Sacharoffhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54594 Ira Sacharoff Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:56:57 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54594 ...and this is why there are a fair number of vacant and for sale " worker housing units", because workers can't afford them?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54594','Ira Sacharoff',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54594','Ira Sacharoff','...and this is why there are a fair number of vacant and for sale \" worker housing units\", because workers can\'t afford them?',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> …and this is why there are a fair number of vacant and for sale ” worker housing units”, because workers can’t afford them?
Reply – Quote
]]> By: david loshhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54593 david losh Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:04:10 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54593 Worker housing unit is a fair term. The 1940s two bedroom one bath homes with no eaves were built for the war effort. There are row after row of housing units built with cinder block in Shoreline and Mount Lake Terrace. These new construction town house and stick built condo units are the same thing. The idea is to throw the units up to create supply quickly.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54593','david losh',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54593','david losh','Worker housing unit is a fair term. The 1940s two bedroom one bath homes with no eaves were built for the war effort.\r\nThere are row after row of housing units built with cinder block in Shoreline and Mount Lake Terrace. \r\nThese new construction town house and stick built condo units are the same thing. \r\nThe idea is to throw the units up to create supply quickly.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Worker housing unit is a fair term. The 1940s two bedroom one bath homes with no eaves were built for the war effort.
There are row after row of housing units built with cinder block in Shoreline and Mount Lake Terrace.
These new construction town house and stick built condo units are the same thing.
The idea is to throw the units up to create supply quickly.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: mikalhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54590 mikal Mon, 18 Aug 2008 12:14:48 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54590 TJ, How condescending could you be. What minimum wage job do you work?<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54590','mikal',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54590','mikal','TJ, How condescending could you be. What minimum wage job do you work?',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> TJ, How condescending could you be. What minimum wage job do you work?
Reply – Quote
]]> By: TJ_98370http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54584 TJ_98370 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:24:16 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54584 Mr.Losh -Whoah! You are covering alot of ground with your last post. I'm a bit tired right now after being on the road for 15 hrs the last two days, so I hope I make sense with my comments. .I think what you are saying is that condo's and town-homes should be affordable to those who are just starting out, or not a DINK. I do not believe you will find anyone disageeing with you on that point who visits this blog on a regular basis. As a minor aside, your use of such terms as "worker housing units" has all sorts of unfavorable politicly associated baggage associated with it. Nobody that I know wants to think of their condo or town-home as a "worker housing unit". . This is an internet blog, and maybe you should not share too much personal info, but I am curious. What is your background? You mention international travel alot. . FWIW, you do provide a unique perspective. I have to work at what you are saying, but maybe that's my problem. :-) .<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54584','TJ_98370',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54584','TJ_98370','Mr.Losh - \r\n\r\nWhoah! You are covering alot of ground with your last post. I\'m a bit tired right now after being on the road for 15 hrs the last two days, so I hope I make sense with my comments. \r\n.\r\n\r\nI think what you are saying is that condo\'s and town-homes should be affordable to those who are just starting out, or not a DINK. I do not believe you will find anyone disageeing with you on that point who visits this blog on a regular basis. As a minor aside, your use of such terms as \"worker housing units\" has all sorts of unfavorable politicly associated baggage associated with it. Nobody that I know wants to think of their condo or town-home as a \"worker housing unit\". \r\n.\r\nThis is an internet blog, and maybe you should not share too much personal info, but I am curious. What is your background? You mention international travel alot. \r\n.\r\nFWIW, you do provide a unique perspective. I have to work at what you are saying, but maybe that\'s my problem. :-)\r\n.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Mr.Losh –

Whoah! You are covering alot of ground with your last post. I’m a bit tired right now after being on the road for 15 hrs the last two days, so I hope I make sense with my comments.
.

I think what you are saying is that condo’s and town-homes should be affordable to those who are just starting out, or not a DINK. I do not believe you will find anyone disageeing with you on that point who visits this blog on a regular basis. As a minor aside, your use of such terms as “worker housing units” has all sorts of unfavorable politicly associated baggage associated with it. Nobody that I know wants to think of their condo or town-home as a “worker housing unit”.
.
This is an internet blog, and maybe you should not share too much personal info, but I am curious. What is your background? You mention international travel alot.
.
FWIW, you do provide a unique perspective. I have to work at what you are saying, but maybe that’s my problem. :-)
.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: david loshhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54578 david losh Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:32:30 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54578 The idea of worker housing units has always been around. Todays units are no exception, it's global, with a place in the Real Estate industry. When first proposed to the City Council for fast track permitting the design was for the expressed purpose to create these worker housing units in proximity to the down town core. It was a part of the Growth Mangement Act, and Urban Village concept. They were meant to be sold for cheap. They were built to be sold for cheap. By over building these units it should have lowered the price of housing units by increasing supply. That was the idea. That's what I know from sitting in meetings. My concerns were increased traffic and decreased street parking. My goal was to have developers pay for improving infrastructure the same as they would have to for a sububan development project. I objected to and still do to our tax dollars being spent for mass transit projects that are ultimately benefitting large developers and they contribute nothing. Promises were made in terms of pricing. The problem is that these units are now being sold for the same price as stand alone Real Estate.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54578','david losh',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54578','david losh','The idea of worker housing units has always been around. Todays units are no exception, it\'s global, with a place in the Real Estate industry. \r\nWhen first proposed to the City Council for fast track permitting the design was for the expressed purpose to create these worker housing units in proximity to the down town core. It was a part of the Growth Mangement Act, and Urban Village concept. \r\nThey were meant to be sold for cheap. They were built to be sold for cheap. By over building these units it should have lowered the price of housing units by increasing supply. That was the idea. \r\nThat\'s what I know from sitting in meetings. My concerns were increased traffic and decreased street parking. My goal was to have developers pay for improving infrastructure the same as they would have to for a sububan development project. I objected to and still do to our tax dollars being spent for mass transit projects that are ultimately benefitting large developers and they contribute nothing.\r\nPromises were made in terms of pricing. The problem is that these units are now being sold for the same price as stand alone Real Estate.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> The idea of worker housing units has always been around. Todays units are no exception, it’s global, with a place in the Real Estate industry.
When first proposed to the City Council for fast track permitting the design was for the expressed purpose to create these worker housing units in proximity to the down town core. It was a part of the Growth Mangement Act, and Urban Village concept.
They were meant to be sold for cheap. They were built to be sold for cheap. By over building these units it should have lowered the price of housing units by increasing supply. That was the idea.
That’s what I know from sitting in meetings. My concerns were increased traffic and decreased street parking. My goal was to have developers pay for improving infrastructure the same as they would have to for a sububan development project. I objected to and still do to our tax dollars being spent for mass transit projects that are ultimately benefitting large developers and they contribute nothing.
Promises were made in terms of pricing. The problem is that these units are now being sold for the same price as stand alone Real Estate.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: Ira Sacharoffhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54577 Ira Sacharoff Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:05:01 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54577 Ok David Losh, help me out here: When you say that town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between 150-250K, do you mean that you ultimately believe that prices for such units will fall to those prices, or is this just a personal bias against townhomes and condos. Personally, they aren't my style, and they are often built with the shoddiest workmanship and cheapest materials and I could never see myself living in one, but I just want to make sure i understand what you're saying.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54577','Ira Sacharoff',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54577','Ira Sacharoff','Ok David Losh, help me out here: When you say that town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between 150-250K, do you mean that you ultimately believe that prices for such units will fall to those prices, or is this just a personal bias against townhomes and condos. \r\nPersonally, they aren\'t my style, and they are often built with the shoddiest workmanship and cheapest materials and I could never see myself living in one, but I just want to make sure i understand what you\'re saying.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Ok David Losh, help me out here: When you say that town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between 150-250K, do you mean that you ultimately believe that prices for such units will fall to those prices, or is this just a personal bias against townhomes and condos.
Personally, they aren’t my style, and they are often built with the shoddiest workmanship and cheapest materials and I could never see myself living in one, but I just want to make sure i understand what you’re saying.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: david loshhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54576 david losh Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:42:41 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54576 Town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between $150K to $250K.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54576','david losh',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54576','david losh','Town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between $150K to $250K.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Town house and condo units in Seattle have a value of between $150K to $250K.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: 98115renterhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54575 98115renter Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:34:09 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54575 david losh said: "Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. "I think your are misreading the graph. The $ price on the right axis is only for the median retail price while the numbers on the left axis are an index are for the affordability index. The affordability and first-time affordability are not given in dollar terms.Can anyone explain the index numbers? I guess lower numbers indicate less affordable.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54575','98115renter',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54575','98115renter','david losh said: \"Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. \"\r\n\r\nI think your are misreading the graph. The $ price on the right axis is only for the median retail price while the numbers on the left axis are an index are for the affordability index. The affordability and first-time affordability are not given in dollar terms. \r\n\r\nCan anyone explain the index numbers? I guess lower numbers indicate less affordable.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> david losh said: “Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. ”

I think your are misreading the graph. The $ price on the right axis is only for the median retail price while the numbers on the left axis are an index are for the affordability index. The affordability and first-time affordability are not given in dollar terms.

Can anyone explain the index numbers? I guess lower numbers indicate less affordable.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: TJ_98370http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54560 TJ_98370 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 04:30:35 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54560 Mr. David Losh - . I read your stuff occasionaly, and you make some very good observations at times, but I find most of your posts difficult to understand. I am hardly the one to legitimately criticize other's posts, but you are a bit on the rambling side IMO. . Mr. Losh. here is a challenge - if you had to consolidate your previous post into one sentence, what that one sentence be? .<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54560','TJ_98370',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54560','TJ_98370','Mr. David Losh -\r\n.\r\nI read your stuff occasionaly, and you make some very good observations at times, but I find most of your posts difficult to understand. I am hardly the one to legitimately criticize other\'s posts, but you are a bit on the rambling side IMO. \r\n.\r\nMr. Losh. here is a challenge - if you had to consolidate your previous post into one sentence, what that one sentence be? \r\n.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Mr. David Losh -
.
I read your stuff occasionaly, and you make some very good observations at times, but I find most of your posts difficult to understand. I am hardly the one to legitimately criticize other’s posts, but you are a bit on the rambling side IMO.
.
Mr. Losh. here is a challenge – if you had to consolidate your previous post into one sentence, what that one sentence be?
.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: TJ_98370http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54558 TJ_98370 Sun, 17 Aug 2008 04:02:48 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54558 <i>......"Buyers see and hear stories about the collapse of the national housing market everywhere, and that makes them afraid to move forward with a purchase," said Glenn Crellin, center director......</i>Mr. Crellin does have a firm grasp of the obvious. You have to give him credit for that.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54558','TJ_98370',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54558','TJ_98370','<i>......\"Buyers see and hear stories about the collapse of the national housing market everywhere, and that makes them afraid to move forward with a purchase,\" said Glenn Crellin, center director......<\/i> \r\n\r\nMr. Crellin does have a firm grasp of the obvious. You have to give him credit for that.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> ……”Buyers see and hear stories about the collapse of the national housing market everywhere, and that makes them afraid to move forward with a purchase,” said Glenn Crellin, center director……

Mr. Crellin does have a firm grasp of the obvious. You have to give him credit for that.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: victorchaihttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54529 victorchai Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:58:01 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54529 Just a quick Q, any1 got the July's usual Monthly home sale maps in PDF? Thanks alot!<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54529','victorchai',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54529','victorchai','Just a quick Q, any1 got the July\'s usual Monthly home sale maps in PDF? Thanks alot!',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Just a quick Q, any1 got the July’s usual Monthly home sale maps in PDF? Thanks alot!
Reply – Quote
]]> By: softwarengineerhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54528 softwarengineer Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:52:10 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54528 INSIGHTFUL BLOGSI'd add; eliminate the top 10% of Seattle's household incomes....they already bought and most are not in the market.We all know the bottom 90% of household incomes are at best marching in place since 1999....with food/gas, they're conservatively reducing approx 10% a year, inflation adjusted.Welcome to Seattle's uncontrolled population wage deterioration.Oh that's right, gas, food and housing aren't in the COLA calculation....lol<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54528','softwarengineer',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54528','softwarengineer','INSIGHTFUL BLOGS\r\n\r\nI\'d add; eliminate the top 10% of Seattle\'s household incomes....they already bought and most are not in the market. \r\n\r\nWe all know the bottom 90% of household incomes are at best marching in place since 1999....with food\/gas, they\'re conservatively reducing approx 10% a year, inflation adjusted.\r\n\r\nWelcome to Seattle\'s uncontrolled population wage deterioration.\r\n\r\nOh that\'s right, gas, food and housing aren\'t in the COLA calculation....lol',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> INSIGHTFUL BLOGS

I’d add; eliminate the top 10% of Seattle’s household incomes….they already bought and most are not in the market.

We all know the bottom 90% of household incomes are at best marching in place since 1999….with food/gas, they’re conservatively reducing approx 10% a year, inflation adjusted.

Welcome to Seattle’s uncontrolled population wage deterioration.

Oh that’s right, gas, food and housing aren’t in the COLA calculation….lol

Reply – Quote
]]> By: ThomasB.http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54527 ThomasB. Sat, 16 Aug 2008 06:08:18 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54527 The Times article stated: "Declining prices don't necessarily help many buyers, said Jan Ellingson, of Burlington, Skagit County, who is president of Washington Realtors. "Much of the savings in prices was consumed by higher interest rates, leaving buyers frustrated that they are not benefiting from price declines as they expected," she said."Hmmm...<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54527','ThomasB.',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54527','ThomasB.','The Times article stated:\r\n\"Declining prices don\'t necessarily help many buyers, said Jan Ellingson, of Burlington, Skagit County, who is president of Washington Realtors.\r\n\"Much of the savings in prices was consumed by higher interest rates, leaving buyers frustrated that they are not benefiting from price declines as they expected,\" she said.\"\r\n\r\nHmmm...',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> The Times article stated:
“Declining prices don’t necessarily help many buyers, said Jan Ellingson, of Burlington, Skagit County, who is president of Washington Realtors.
“Much of the savings in prices was consumed by higher interest rates, leaving buyers frustrated that they are not benefiting from price declines as they expected,” she said.”

Hmmm…

Reply – Quote
]]> By: Groundhogdayhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54524 Groundhogday Sat, 16 Aug 2008 02:39:22 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54524 Crellin is a professor at a land grant university with an obligation to generate unbiased knowledge and to serve the people of this state. What an embarrassment. Can't the guy read his OWN affordability numbers???Glen, get a clue! People are buying because houses are not affordable! THe days of getting a loan that you cannot afford are over, so it is back to reality in WA just like everywhere else.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54524','Groundhogday',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54524','Groundhogday','Crellin is a professor at a land grant university with an obligation to generate unbiased knowledge and to serve the people of this state. What an embarrassment. Can\'t the guy read his OWN affordability numbers???\r\n\r\nGlen, get a clue! People are buying because houses are not affordable! THe days of getting a loan that you cannot afford are over, so it is back to reality in WA just like everywhere else.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Crellin is a professor at a land grant university with an obligation to generate unbiased knowledge and to serve the people of this state. What an embarrassment. Can’t the guy read his OWN affordability numbers???

Glen, get a clue! People are buying because houses are not affordable! THe days of getting a loan that you cannot afford are over, so it is back to reality in WA just like everywhere else.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: Robroyhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54520 Robroy Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:59:58 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54520 Dave, Any relation to Brian? I used to work at Ewing and Clark when they were on Dexter and later on 5th.You and I seem to have the same love of condos. ;)<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54520','Robroy',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54520','Robroy','Dave, Any relation to Brian? I used to work at Ewing and Clark when they were on Dexter and later on 5th. \r\n\r\nYou and I seem to have the same love of condos. ;)',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Dave, Any relation to Brian? I used to work at Ewing and Clark when they were on Dexter and later on 5th.

You and I seem to have the same love of condos. ;)

Reply – Quote
]]> By: Marchttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54519 Marc Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:23:39 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54519 Businessweek.com has an interesting article about the best rental markets – spoiler alert – Tacoma is in the top 10:

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/aug2008/bw20080814_791866.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story

“In Tacoma, Wash., where there is an overflow of military personnel from nearby bases looking for apartments, rents increased 7.8%—the biggest increase in the nation.”

“In Tacoma, which continues to experience job growth, many people are renting because—with increasingly restricting lending standards—it’s tough to qualify to buy, said Dick Beeson, broker/owner of Windermere/Commencement Associates. Tacoma is attractive to renters because it is an affordable alternative for people who work in Seattle, just over 30 miles away. Beeson said he expects rents to begin stabilizing next year as more investors lease out homes they couldn’t sell. ”

I knew Tacoma sales were tanking but I didn’t see this coming.

Reply – Quote
]]> By: david loshhttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54516 david losh Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:08:00 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54516 Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond. Those types of housing units are going to be the ones most likely to stay stagnant in appreciation. More can always be built for those prices. They are housing units with four walls and a toilet. This is the problem with the Affordability Index. It is viable data, but will never address the pricing issues. The pricing issues with housing, now commodities, as the stock market before that, are far removed from any day to day reality. The bubble in housing unit pricing is global. We just returned from Peru where the same massive building schemes are going on with banks being the biggest promoters. The difference in Peru, from Spain, is that fewer people could afford or were given loans for these town home, condo projects, so they in turn sit vacant hoping for renters. The bigger credit schemes in Peru are for every day items, like toasters, hot plates, and washing machines. Four years ago everything was cash. There are more machines, tools, and cars, usually used for some types of business, like taxis. Durable goods bought on these credit schemes help generate more economy. So, credit can be a good thing. Coming back to the United States these housing units are making more sense. Where I see the problem is that people began paying Real Estate prices for Housing Units. People began paying $500K for four walls and some toilets. People paid $350K for a $250K housing unit in Fremont, of all places. I can pay $400K for a little house that sits on a big lot or buy four walls and some toilets that sit on the foot print it sits on. It's lumber and about 500 sq ft of dirt. In Peru, when the comparison was made more people bought little houses, for cash, or traded up, or remodelled. Now you can see row after row of buildings sitting vacant. It's the banks that make the money. It was much clearer in Peru that the housing units were secondary to the amount of money those units pumped into the economy. Companies bought tools, and trucks, that are still in the system. Employees were hired and paid. Banks make loans based on income from jobs they created, then churn durable goods. The worst case is that they rent out housing units, but it's still the banks money, investment, that they are getting a return on. It's all money that keeps sloshing around. So yes you can own a housing unit for $250K. You just need to wait a bit and it will be so. The less tangible purchase will be that picket fenced yard you grew up with. The dream of real property may be more elusive. As builders tear more stuff down to build crappy housing units your dream homes becomes more scarce.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54516','david losh',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54516','david losh','Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond. \r\nThose types of housing units are going to be the ones most likely to stay stagnant in appreciation. More can always be built for those prices. They are housing units with four walls and a toilet.\r\nThis is the problem with the Affordability Index. It is viable data, but will never address the pricing issues. The pricing issues with housing, now commodities, as the stock market before that, are far removed from any day to day reality. \r\nThe bubble in housing unit pricing is global. We just returned from Peru where the same massive building schemes are going on with banks being the biggest promoters. The difference in Peru, from Spain, is that fewer people could afford or were given loans for these town home, condo projects, so they in turn sit vacant hoping for renters. \r\nThe bigger credit schemes in Peru are for every day items, like toasters, hot plates, and washing machines. Four years ago everything was cash. \r\nThere are more machines, tools, and cars, usually used for some types of business, like taxis. Durable goods bought on these credit schemes help generate more economy. So, credit can be a good thing.\r\nComing back to the United States these housing units are making more sense. Where I see the problem is that people began paying Real Estate prices for Housing Units. People began paying $500K for four walls and some toilets. People paid $350K for a $250K housing unit in Fremont, of all places. \r\nI can pay $400K for a little house that sits on a big lot or buy four walls and some toilets that sit on the foot print it sits on. It\'s lumber and about 500 sq ft of dirt. \r\nIn Peru, when the comparison was made more people bought little houses, for cash, or traded up, or remodelled. Now you can see row after row of buildings sitting vacant. \r\nIt\'s the banks that make the money. It was much clearer in Peru that the housing units were secondary to the amount of money those units pumped into the economy. Companies bought tools, and trucks, that are still in the system. Employees were hired and paid. Banks make loans based on income from jobs they created, then churn durable goods. The worst case is that they rent out housing units, but it\'s still the banks money, investment, that they are getting a return on.\r\nIt\'s all money that keeps sloshing around. So yes you can own a housing unit for $250K. You just need to wait a bit and it will be so. The less tangible purchase will be that picket fenced yard you grew up with. The dream of real property may be more elusive. As builders tear more stuff down to build crappy housing units your dream homes becomes more scarce.',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> Look at the affordability index at $270K and the first time index at $150K. That price range only provides a housing unit that has become a town home or condo as a base. I believe there is a market for those units and a price point to correspond.
Those types of housing units are going to be the ones most likely to stay stagnant in appreciation. More can always be built for those prices. They are housing units with four walls and a toilet.
This is the problem with the Affordability Index. It is viable data, but will never address the pricing issues. The pricing issues with housing, now commodities, as the stock market before that, are far removed from any day to day reality.
The bubble in housing unit pricing is global. We just returned from Peru where the same massive building schemes are going on with banks being the biggest promoters. The difference in Peru, from Spain, is that fewer people could afford or were given loans for these town home, condo projects, so they in turn sit vacant hoping for renters.
The bigger credit schemes in Peru are for every day items, like toasters, hot plates, and washing machines. Four years ago everything was cash.
There are more machines, tools, and cars, usually used for some types of business, like taxis. Durable goods bought on these credit schemes help generate more economy. So, credit can be a good thing.
Coming back to the United States these housing units are making more sense. Where I see the problem is that people began paying Real Estate prices for Housing Units. People began paying $500K for four walls and some toilets. People paid $350K for a $250K housing unit in Fremont, of all places.
I can pay $400K for a little house that sits on a big lot or buy four walls and some toilets that sit on the foot print it sits on. It’s lumber and about 500 sq ft of dirt.
In Peru, when the comparison was made more people bought little houses, for cash, or traded up, or remodelled. Now you can see row after row of buildings sitting vacant.
It’s the banks that make the money. It was much clearer in Peru that the housing units were secondary to the amount of money those units pumped into the economy. Companies bought tools, and trucks, that are still in the system. Employees were hired and paid. Banks make loans based on income from jobs they created, then churn durable goods. The worst case is that they rent out housing units, but it’s still the banks money, investment, that they are getting a return on.
It’s all money that keeps sloshing around. So yes you can own a housing unit for $250K. You just need to wait a bit and it will be so. The less tangible purchase will be that picket fenced yard you grew up with. The dream of real property may be more elusive. As builders tear more stuff down to build crappy housing units your dream homes becomes more scarce.
Reply – Quote
]]> By: SeattleMoosehttp://seattlebubble.com/blog/2008/08/15/wcrer-affordability-drops-again/#comment-54510 SeattleMoose Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:11:02 +0000 http://seattlebubble.com/blog/?p=2454#comment-54510 As Jagger/Richards sang....."Time Is On My Side".Limbo lower now....how low can you go????<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('54510','SeattleMoose',''); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('54510','SeattleMoose','As Jagger\/Richards sang.....\"Time Is On My Side\".\r\n\r\nLimbo lower now....how low can you go????',''); return false;">Quote</a></div> As Jagger/Richards sang…..”Time Is On My Side”.

Limbo lower now….how low can you go????

Reply – Quote
]]>