Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

108 responses to “$15k Tax Credit On the Chopping Block”

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  1. patient

    Kary, how often is inflation higher than interest rates? Never. Interest rates is set from the inflation expectations. Show me a stretch of years where interest rates have been lower than inflation and we can talk.

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  2. patient

    Oh yes, the tax deductible, good that we get that on too. Another misconception. The advantage is the additional deduction from what the standard deduction would give you. For a family of four my guess is that it’s pocket change.

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  3. Kary L. Krismer

    By patient @ 101:

    Kary, how often is inflation higher than interest rates? Never. Interest rates is set from the inflation expectations. Show me a stretch of years where interest rates have been lower than inflation and we can talk.

    Inflation fluctuates, interest rates are set when you get the loan, unless it’s an ARM. There were a lot of people in the late 70s early 80s who had interest rates far below the rate of inflation.

    As to your next comment, I accounted for that, saying that only 8k of the 18k would be deductible. That’s one of my pet peeves for mortgage people–who don’t mention that when they’re making their sales pitch.

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  4. don't get it

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 96:

    It’s the return when selling. Leverage refers to using debt to buy something. If that something goes up you earn incredible returns on investment. If it goes down, you’re in deep trouble (unless perhaps non-recourse).

    If you buy a $300,000 house with a $300,000 mortgage, if inflation is 7% a year, that house will be worth almost $600,000 in ten years, but you’ll still only owe $300,000. The interest on the loan would be $180,000 assuming a 6% rate, so ignoring a lot of things (being able to live in the house, interest deductions, maintenance expenses, etc.) you’d be up about $120,000 on an investment of closing costs.

    For several years investments in multi-family housing has basically assumed that the prices would continue to rise, because otherwise they didn’t pencil out at all.

    With only a 1% differential between the inflation rate and the mortgage interest rate, are you still netting a positive return after taking into account maintenance and property taxes?

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  5. patient

    “only 8k of the 18k would be deductible” which makes the actual saving something like 18% of 8k = $1500. $1500 on $300k is 0.5%. So if the inflation is 0.5% lower than your interest rate you break even, if it’s inflation is lower than interest rate + 0.5% you loose. Wanna bet that inflation will be lower than interest rates + 0.5% the next couple of years? We’re ;ikely to have deflation so interest rates needs to go to 0.5% or lower. Not going to happen.

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  6. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: don’t get it @ 104 – 1% would be roughly the property tax. But in the hypothetical, it would total about $40-50k (estimate), so that wouldn’t eat up all your profit. Maintenance probably wouldn’t either, but it depends on what you assume it to be!

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  7. Kary L. Krismer

    By patient @ 105:

    Wanna bet that inflation will be lower than interest rates + 0.5% the next couple of years?

    Interest rates at any given time would be more than inflation, but with either very low inflation (or deflation) or very high inflation I think you’ll see a larger differential. Right now it wouldn’t surprise me if we’re somewhere in the 5-7% range–I believe the last CPI numbers were negative YOY.

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  8. cheapseats

    It appears that the $8k is a full refund that you do not have to repay…

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/real_estate/homebuyer_tax_credit_finalized/index.htm

    “A big plus is that the credit is refundable, meaning tax filers see a refund of the full $8,000 even if their total tax bill – the amount of witholding they paid during the year plus anything extra they had to pony up when they filed their returns – was less than that amount. “

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