Let’s check in on February market statistics from the NWMLS. First up, the NWMLS press release.
Home buyers appear to be in a “mental filibuster,” according to one real estate executive upon seeing the latest figures from Northwest Multiple Listing Service. The report on February activity for 19 counties across Washington shows slight gains in pending sales and selling prices from January, but brokers say many would-be buyers remain on the sidelines, paralyzed by the uncertain economy.
“I believe these results are reflective of what might be called a “mental filibuster” for potential home buyers — they are struggling between the desire to buy a home and the uncertainty of what might come next in the way of government stimulus, tax credits or lower mortgage rates,” observed Ron Sparks, managing vice president of Coldwell Banker Bain. Agents are reporting “tremendous activity” at open houses, with the last few weekends generating the best activity in several months. Despite the high interest, what’s stopping buyers, according to Sparks, is weak consumer confidence.
“Buyers don’t yet understand what the stimulus package means to them,” said NWMLS director Kathy Estey, managing broker of John L. Scott’s Bellevue Downtown office. “Good houses at good prices that are affordable are getting attention,” she remarked, noting her office had four multiple offer situations the last week of February for homes priced under the median cost. “Open house activity is up and attendees are serious,” Estey reported.
Sweet. With all the actual measurable statistics in the gutter, it’s back to the old nebulous standby of “open house activity.”
Here’s your King County SFH summary:
February 2009
Active Listings: down 4% YOY
Pending Sales: down 21% YOY
Closed Sales: down 42% YOY
Months of Supply: 7.5
Median Closed Price*: $375,000 – down 12.8% YOY
Closed sales remained in the gutter, dropping to yet another new low of just 661 in February, despite a 27% increase in last month’s pending sales. January closed out with 1,159 pending sales, but only 661 closed in February—57%. Interesting. Meanwhile, inventory continued to grow on a trend similar to (but slightly lower than) last year.
Here is the updated Seattle Bubble Spreadsheet, and here’s a copy in Excel 2003 format. Click below for the graphs and the rest of the post.
Here’s the graph of inventory with each year overlaid on the same chart.
Inventory continued to track fairly close to 2008, but remained slightly under the record highs set last year.
Pending sales were dramatically lower than last year, setting an all-time low for February, and posting one the weakest January-to-February increase in at least the last ten years.
Closed sales would have to more than double next month just to get back to the weak level of 2008 volume. Ouch.
Here’s the supply/demand YOY graph.
Sales dropped back into -20% territory, as listings continued to move just barely negative.
Here’s the chart of supply and demand raw numbers:
This chart makes the still-record-high level of inventory more obvious. The number of listings on the market at the end of February 2009 was higher than the highest points set in the summer and fall of 2000-2007.
Here’s the median home price YOY change graph:
Yet another new low at 12.8% down from February 2008.
And lastly, here is the chart comparing King County SFH prices each month for every year back to 1994.
February 2009 King County median SFH price: $375,000.
June 2005 King County median SFH price: $375,000.
If only I had bought a house instead of starting this blog in August 2005, I could have enjoyed -3% appreciation!
Here are the news blurbs from the Times and P-I. Check back tomorrow for the full reporting roundup.
Seattle Times: Home sale prices continue to decline in February in Puget Sound area
Seattle P-I: Local real estate: few sales, falling prices
rose-colored-coolaid » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
One word describes the market – ANEMIC.
dw » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:28 pm
So on this “high open house activity” deal:
We went and looked at a house last month during an open house. In the 40 minutes we were there, three other couples came through the house looking at it. So, a group every 10 minutes. I’d consider that pretty good open house traffic, wouldn’t you?
The house was just relisted with $50K cut off the asking price.
deejayoh » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Let me get this straight – February closings are about half of January Pendings?
ouch
The Tim » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:38 pm
RE: deejayoh @ 3 – Exactly. Ouch is right.
Mike2 » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:49 pm
If only I had bought a house instead of starting this blog in August 2005, I could have enjoyed -3% appreciation!
But you’d have been able to boast about it and belittle renters for the past 3.5 years, isn’t that worth 3%?
The Tim » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:54 pm
RE: Mike2 @ 5 – Note, that’s negative three percent. Also does not factor in the cost of selling nor the closing costs when buying. :^)
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 2:59 pm
February was the second and last month that snow could be used as an excuse for the low volume, but the fact that pendings are not higher indicates snow wasn’t much of an effect for either January or February.
As I indicated in the other thread, the median pendings are down to $359,950, which would tend to indicate another two months (March and April) of price declines, although sometimes that indicator is misleading–but not typically when it’s so much lower than the last month’s closed.
TheHulk » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Like I have said before, we have reached a tipping point here in the Puget Sound. People were swallowing all the BS being fed to them by the NAR (who would not? these poor souls had put much of their life savings into their houses). That worked when prices were slowly dipping by a percent or so every month. Now, with 15% declines across the board and % drops increasing every month that kind of junk marketing isnt working any more.
Closings half of pendings. Looks to me like rats not getting onto a sinking ship. Smart rats. (I am one of them) :^)
Regarding the open houses, yeah, I am one of those “open-house-traffic” persons. I blatantly go the “poor” realtor, listen to his pitch about “affordability” and then proceed to skewer them with a single comment like…. Lets say I make xxx per month. Even with these super-low interest rates, my mortgage payment doesnt come out to 28% (which is what Obama is aiming for). And then they flounder around trying to come up with an answer.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:15 pm
By TheHulk @ 8:
I’m not sure what you’re trying to make of that fact, but most likely it’s mainly the result of short sales taking longer to close than the typical 30-45 days. And realistically, for the market to be recovering at all, we’d need pendings at 3x the level of closings, or even higher. That they are so low isn’t encouraging.
The Tim » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:17 pm
By Kary L. Krismer @ 9:
That explanation only works if there has been a significant uptick in the number of short sales in just the last few months. Otherwise some of the February closed volume would have been made up of short sales that went pending in late 2008.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:22 pm
RE: The Tim @ 10 – I’m assuming there has been an uptick in short sales, but it’s hard to track even active short sales. Do you have a way of tracking it?
DaveyDave » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:32 pm
RE: TheHulk @ 8 – The affordability is the key point here, isn’t it Hulk? The bubble started to deflate when people couldn’t even afford the asking prices with easy credit. Now after the credit crisis with 20% minimum down payment and the more typical mortgage requirements, the asking prices are even further out of reach for most. Prices must come down to an affordable level considering the topography of the new credit landscape. Or there just won’t be any level of sales to speak of and volume will remain anemic. Naturally with all due respects given to the inestimable Mr. Yun and his learned advice.
DrShort » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“Despite the high interest, what’s stopping buyers, according to Sparks, is weak consumer confidence.”
I don’t think Seattle’s anemic volume is a result of the macro economic situation as much as it is about high home prices. Sales volume is up in places like CA and FL where prices have dropped much more.
Scotsman » Mar 4, 2009 at 3:59 pm
“I believe these results are reflective of what might be called a “mental filibuster” for potential home buyers — they are struggling between the desire to buy a home and the uncertainty of what might come next in the way of government stimulus, tax credits or lower mortgage rates,” observed Ron Sparks
What a tool. Maybe it isn’t the anticipation of insignificant government actions, but the potential to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next decade that has them spooked. People are waking up to find that much of what they’ve believed over the last forty years may not be true. Maybe houses don’t always go up. Maybe the government is incapable of fixing everything in their lives. And maybe real estate agents and their spokesmen, yes, maybe even Suzanne’s research skills… aren’t what they thought.?
What’s the harm in waiting for another month to see what happens next? After all, it sure doesn’t look like the next housing boom is about to take off.
DrShort » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:04 pm
By Kary L. Krismer @ 9:
If difference between closed and pending is explained by short sales, this market is in for a world of hurt very shortly. It would imply the percentage of sales that are distressed has risen dramatically in a short period of time.
DaveyDave » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm
You know, the ‘tremendous’ showings at open houses on Sunday are probably nothing more than people now aren’t going out shopping and are looking for something to do that doesn’t cost anything…
Ray Pepper » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:25 pm
RE: TheHulk @ 8 –
Keep “skewering” those Agents!! We still have 20,000 too many! If they cant come up with an answer for you they should not be sitting in the Open House.
Come to one of my Open Houses and I would respond, ” Well it appears my friend you cannot afford this house then…can you? ” Then I would hand you a complimentary shirt and attempt to have you pick me up some burger king, since I can’t leave the home unattended.
But, alas I have not done an Open House in 12 years!
deejayoh » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:36 pm
By DaveyDave @ 16:
Yeah, as discussed in the forums – shopping mall parking lots are full too. But no one is buying anything there either.
lots of tire kickers
DrShort » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:37 pm
I’ve been to about 5 open houses in the past few weeks. All but one was being shown by an agent that was not listing the property. They were just looking for new clients.
Each one casually asked “so are you working with an agent….?”
EconE » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:39 pm
RE: Ray Pepper @ 17 –
Wouldn’t a better reply be…
“Well…I just can’t seem to get my bonehead client to lower their price…they just don’t get it…they think the bubble is coming back”
Then, roll your eyes, shrug your shoulders and say…
“I’m trying to help them understand…why that house down the street…sold for 40% more than what their asking price should be, due to the fact that the person who bought it used a neg-am liars loan”
Then…smile…and say…
“I guess they’ll finally realize it when enough of those buyers lose their homes”
I feel for the agents in a way. I was one of those “boneheaded” sellers once.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:41 pm
By DrShort @ 15:
Yes, that’s correct, that is what it would mean, at least as a percentage. Given the huge decline in volume, you wouldn’t need that significant a rise in number for it to have a major effect.
While I was out another explanation did occur to me. I’ve heard some complain of financing taking longer because the refinances are swamping the mortgage companies. I even had one buyer request an extension of their financing contingency due to that.
I don’t track pending volume long term, but I had been watching it through the month. Most of the increase occurred during the first half of the month. I thought it a promising sign until it became apparent the closed sales would be so low.
EconE » Mar 4, 2009 at 4:55 pm
By Kary L. Krismer @ 21
So I guess we can finally take the “mortgage application” statistics and throw them out the window when it is used as a barometer for people actually buying homes?
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 5:05 pm
RE: EconE @ 22 – I’m not sure what you mean by that, but agents do have to always ask their clients’ mortgage broker how long funding will take before they write an offer. Right now the mortgage people are very busy people.
On a related note, I remember that was one of Ardell’s recent insights. Make sure your client can get financing on their intended new purchase before selling their existing home. Duh!
S-Crow » Mar 4, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Purchase transactions take precedence over refinancing. I am aware of several cases where funding’s for refi’s have been delayed by a day or two or three, both due to replenishing lines and making certain purchase transactions are funded. I imagine that many escrow firms are making certain they are funded prior to releasing to record.
patient » Mar 4, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Closed sales and Case shiller are the metrics to follow. Pendings and the median have both become about as reliable as “Open house traffic” to measure what’s going on.
DrShort » Mar 4, 2009 at 6:43 pm
By patient @ 25:
RE: patient @ 25 – RE: patient @ 25 –
Well, Case Shiller, closed sales, median, and pending are all telling the same story so wont have to worry about which one is correct.
Ray Pepper » Mar 4, 2009 at 6:57 pm
RE: EconE @ 20 –
Well Yes, Econ E that would be better but you didn’t mention my Burger King. I mean seriously isn’t that what truly matters to a hungry Agent doing an Open House?
WaileaKid » Mar 4, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Re. Open house traffic: I am one of those who go to open houses and put some sense into the agent showing the house. You’d think that being an “expert” in the field they would know what the house should be priced at and would be able able to convince their client accordingly. But you’d be surprised that it’s not just the clients that are out of touch with the reality.
Many agents have happily tried to sell me a 5 year old house for 20-30% more than what a comparable new construction is selling just down the road.
What I do at the open house is raise these issues and have fun watching them come up with excuses to defend their prices. It’s one of the cheapest entertainment you can get these days :)
Hugh Dominic » Mar 4, 2009 at 7:39 pm
By DrShort @ 19:
DrShort, I have noticed the same thing and have been approached at several open houses as well.
I wonder if they have some sort of arrangement with the listing agent. Why else would the listing agent let them show the house over another agent when that could lead to business.
shawn » Mar 4, 2009 at 7:49 pm
I will take this opportunity to prove why Open House traffic has increased:
1) people are out of work and looking for free cookies and coffee
2) people are wet due to the rain and looking for somewhere to warm up
3) people have canceled their cable and are going to watch some free TV
Okay that is all I can come up with.
george » Mar 4, 2009 at 7:58 pm
“I believe these results are reflective of what might be called a “mental filibuster” for potential home buyers — observed Ron Sparks, managing vice president of Coldwell Banker Bain.”
My best guess is it’s a combination of the “mental filibuster” problem combined with that depressing sunny weather syndrome we had back in February. Talk about your double whammy!
After all, demand should be skyrocketing in this crazy, overheated economy. Just think about all the new hires. Not to mention how rich everyone is feeling thanks to the big gains they’re making on the stock market.
The bubble made perfect sense but this market is a frickin’ mystery.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 8:08 pm
By patient @ 25:
Which I guess is why for the latest period where both are available for both, the NWMLS median and Case Shiller both line up, right? ;-)
The median price of pendings is somewhat useful to predict future months, but unless the difference is extreme and pendings are lower, there isn’t much certainty in that. If pendings are higher, you don’t know the actual sales price, so they are more likely to be misleading.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 8:10 pm
By WaileaKid @ 28:
I think that’s the sign of a changing market. In the past you didn’t have to compare new construction to resales, because the new construction would be higher. Not so anymore.
Also it might be a sign of agents not cutting back the time period that they look at and still using six months for their comps (or other actives as comps).
AMS » Mar 4, 2009 at 8:17 pm
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 –
The December snow storm was used:
1. For December
2. For January
and now,
3. For February.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 8:19 pm
By Hugh Dominic @ 29:
Well first, 10 to 1 the agent showing the house doesn’t have a clue who they represent. Washington law and the NWMLS forms are not exactly explicit on that.
Second, the wife and I seldom have other agents do open houses, and if we do, one of us is almost always there. It’s a real problem making sure that the primary goal is to sell the house that’s open. Listing a house isn’t an opportunity to get six new clients–it’s an opportunity to sell that house. And when you’ve kicked someone out of their house to do an open house (or even if it’s vacant) the first goal is to sell that house.
Third, it is possible that they’re asking if there’s an agent just to know if there is one. Nothing predatory. It would be the follow up questions that would give away whether it’s predatory.
Finally, we have gotten a few (very few) clients at open houses, but it’s always been after it’s clear the buyer has no interest in the house, and typically it’s them that makes the first move. Approaching buyers to establish a relationship is more likely to turn them off than anything.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 8:24 pm
By AMS @ 34:
Yep, and when it was used in December I called BS on that (over in P-I land, I think in one of Aubrey’s pieces), because it would have only affected cash buyers that could close within 2 weeks. January I thought it possible. Even February I would have thought it possible if I didn’t have the pending numbers.
It’s actually possible it’s a combination. Perhaps January was snow and February other stuff. It’s not like we’ve been bombarded with fantastic economic news since December that is likely to get people out to buy houses.
Colin » Mar 4, 2009 at 9:01 pm
I’ve been following N Seattle for the last year and there seem like a lot more interesting open houses right now. Plus with falling prices, properties that were out of reach to me a year ago are now affordable. You bet, I’m curious to see them. Woohoo, upscale living ahead. So Sparks could even be right about the increased activity.
I have no problem with agents at open houses gently soliciting clients. If you were an agent and chatted with an unrepresented potential buyer, what would you do? By all means let’s mock Sparks, but we can be a little kinder to people who are spending their Sundays dealing with the likes of us…
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 4, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Off topic, they’re paging Ray over at Trulia: http://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/Is_there_an_agent_in_the_Puyallup_area_that_would_-95592
As to 37, Colin, it really depends on whether they’re trying to sell the house first. I’ve seen agents solicit the buyer before even showing them the house. How do you think the seller would feel if they saw that?
Ray Pepper » Mar 4, 2009 at 9:48 pm
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35 –
I disagree Kary. An open house IS an opportunity to get NEW clients. Even though I dont do open houses I train my Agents in each state that “Nobody gets out that door without knowing that they get 75% for doing the legwork.” They are to be handed a flier and knowledge. An open house resulting in a sale is less then 1% chance so its a time to educate the masses in the 3 minutes you have with someone. Once they understand what we do they thank us for telling them we exist. Then we did our little part to spread the knowledge of how to buy.
We prefer the sellers do the Open Houses. Buyers LOVE to speak to the sellers since they know much more about the home and the neighbors then any Agent. If interested, the Buyers can come around next time with their Agent but now they have the knoweldge and some history of the home.
The buffet is coming to an end and I look very forward to real estate in the very near future.
Jeremy » Mar 4, 2009 at 10:02 pm
As far as pending vs closed goes, I know I’m one data point but my refinance has now taken more than six weeks and has still not closed. Our lender’s loan processing department is so busy from all the activity that it’s both taking a long time and the underwriting departments have been very nitpicky. We must have shown at least a half dozen times that my wife and I got married on different forms at different times.
Hugh Dominic » Mar 4, 2009 at 11:36 pm
By Colin @ 37:
Colin, I am in the same boat – lots of interesting places moving into my price range now. The challenge is to remain patient and not give in to the “house buying endorphins”! Its tough when houses that 18 months ago I could never consider are now firmly in my price range.
Luckily, I have quite a few friends who are underwater and/or had their equity / down payment vaporized, while I am sitting on 20-25% of my target house price that is growing monthly. They (being good friends) are all counseling me to think carefully before getting saddled with a depreciating asset.
So I am part of the reason that traffic is up – but sales and a price floor are a long way off.
TheHulk » Mar 4, 2009 at 11:39 pm
I dont mind agents trying to become “my agents” at open houses. That said, I would want “my agent” (I am looking at your Ira) to be smart, so I would have at least some confidence in his advice. Thanks to Tim and redfin, these days I can independently verify much of the BS that comes from most agents mouths.
I also have to say I am surprised at the behavior of some of the agents. At a open house a couple of weeks ago, the conversation went as follows:
Agent: Oh, this is such a lovely home, close to great schools, you can “own” this house for just blah blah, interest rates are so low yada yada yada.
Me: Housing prices came down 15% from last year. Based on 3-4% appreciation from 199x I would not be comfortable paying anything more than xxx for this house. And yes, I currently have the money for 20% down at today’s price but I am not interested in putting my life’s savings into a depreciating asset.
Agent: Oh, there is this house comparable to this one just down the road that is 20K cheaper. This owner only wants to keep this house as an investment property, by the way do you have any representation?
Me : Why would I ever hire a backstabber?
patient » Mar 4, 2009 at 11:44 pm
By Kary L. Krismer @ 32:
Ira sacharoff » Mar 5, 2009 at 7:07 am
By TheHulk @ 42:
Some of the agents at open houses are not the listing agents. They’ve simply read the notices at their brokerage and agreed to hold the open house for the listing agent, who is out on his fishing boat, drinking beer, laughing at the poor sucker who’s agreed to spend a few hours doing the open house for THAT house.. Sellers expect open houses, but not very many houses get sold that way, and other agents are willing to hold the open houses simply in order to find unrepresented buyers.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 7:10 am
By Ray Pepper @ 39:
Talk about setting the table for a future lawsuit. Sellers should have zero contact with buyers. Any contact should be indirect through the agents. That’s part of the reason why sellers are typically directed by their agents to leave a house during showings.
RCW 18.86.090 limits the liability of sellers for acts of their agents that are not authorized. Anytime you have face to face contact between a buyer and seller you open the door for lengthy litigation, and ultimately if it comes to litigation testimony to the effect: “I never even saw the buyers because my agent told me to avoid all contact” is a lot more convincing than “I didn’t say what the buyers say I said.”
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 7:13 am
By patient @ 43:
patient » Mar 5, 2009 at 7:40 am
Kary, I know that agents want to discredit Case Shiller since it’s less likely to show a temporary upswing but the trutt is that median is very unpredictable and higly unreliable and flawed in indicating home value fluctuations. Why do you think they created Case Shiller in the first place? Median has it’s use but it’s not to accurately indicate home value fluctuations. This is one the main gripes with real estate agents as a collective, they seem to have an extremely hard time admitting when they are wrong. ( No offense Ira and Ray I know you are two exceptions ). It’s big to be right but it’s great to admit when you are wrong.
David Losh » Mar 5, 2009 at 7:53 am
In today’s market place an advertised open house on a listing lets people who search on line for a home view it without an agent.
A smart agent will list a home, put the open house on craigs list and hold the home open the first few week ends. The same can be done after price reductions. It does generate traffic.
A person searching on line will only see so many homes in a week. A working Real Estate agent will see hundreds of homes a week in the neighborhood you want to be in. An open house is a great time to interview agents who may be able to help you in the future.
For an individual with a list of houses from radfun to find the perfect house is probably going to take a very long time.
Ray Pepper » Mar 5, 2009 at 8:06 am
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 45 –
Kary now you know if its NOT in writing it doesn’t exist. Anyone could sue anyone for what they said but what stands up in court is what is in writing. The form 17 is crucial for this. The history of not keeping sellers and buyers together had more to do with preservation of commissions then by verbal disputes.
Again the future of real estate through “mediators” which I have outlined many times is what I await. Then I know my job will be done. Anytime you open any door of a real estate transaction you open the door to potential litigation. Having sellers and Buyers meet (if they so choose) does NOT add to litigational possibilities.
I suggest whenever you have 2 Agents in a transaction, a Buyer, a seller, and an Escrow closer the potential is far greater for litigation. What we will have someday is:
a mediator/facilitator (an Agent-neutral to both parties)
an attorney (neutral to both parties)
The Buffet is over and Change is on the horizon. The current system is a joke. It always has been. But, what we need is first a continued drop in sales agents of the MLS. When the MLS collapses the door will open wide for the mighty G to take this profession over and do what was modeled nearly 9 years ago!
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 8:24 am
By Ray Pepper @ 49:
That’s just 100% wrong. If it’s just the writings that are at issue, most cases can be decided at summary judgment, which is a relatively quick easy process. Once you get into the oral disputes, the cost and time of a lawsuit gets magnified greatly. Basically if you’re sued, you lose, regardless of the outcome.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 8:26 am
By Ray Pepper @ 49:
That would be unnecessary duplication if the attorney doesn’t represent anyone. You could get rid of either one and not lose a thing.
Ira sacharoff » Mar 5, 2009 at 9:35 am
“RCW 18.86.090 limits the liability of sellers for acts of their agents that are not authorized. Anytime you have face to face contact between a buyer and seller you open the door for lengthy litigation, and ultimately if it comes to litigation testimony to the effect: “I never even saw the buyers because my agent told me to avoid all contact” is a lot more convincing than “I didn’t say what the buyers say I said.” ”
You’re the lawyer here, Kary, but Redfin agents don’t hold open houses, they just supply the signs.
Why would they open themselves up for lawsuits? Or do they think “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.”?
Either way, it seems to me that, the way I read the RCW, the seller , not the agent would be held liable for any errors or omissions, etc…..
Ray Pepper » Mar 5, 2009 at 9:52 am
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 51 –
Kary you dont understand the new model of real estate that is being proposed. You need to educate yourself on what Google has proposed many years ago. We are slowly heading there way.
An attorney and a mediaitor/facilitator is also the presenter of the home and a neutral 3rd party . In the NEW model of Real Estate the Attorney will NOT serve as Escrow for they will be too busy with the contracts. Escrow Agents would be used to facilitate closings. In/re to oral disputes you are assuming a 3rd party is not present to hear what is being said. The form 17 and the P & S is the key to what will be upheld in court.
Conversations between Buyer and Seller prior to any written documentation can be brought to court but in the end the P&S will supersede any conversations or verbal promises. I say it again. If a Buyer and Seller desire to meet each other the Agents should facilitate this not prevent it.
Reporting Roundup: The bottom is in, unless it isn’t. | Seattle Bubble — News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area. » Mar 5, 2009 at 10:03 am
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Dave0 » Mar 5, 2009 at 10:05 am
By The Tim @ 6:
Or the cost of owning: maintenance, property taxes, insurance, interest, utilities, etc.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 10:16 am
By Ray Pepper @ 53:
You’re thinking of merger, and it isn’t applicable to claims of fraud or misrepresentation.
What you’re basically trying to say is that a seller can make any oral representation to a buyer and be free of any claim of liability as long as the sale closes. Rather obviously, that is not the law.
Ray Pepper » Mar 5, 2009 at 11:02 am
Oh come on Kary. Such blanket statements are incompetent. Of course not. Just as a Buyer promising to a seller…”Oh you dont have to fix that, I will after close”……It will not stand if its not in writing. The seller would have just as difficult a time proving this verbal promise. I tell you this. Conversations between buyer and seller, if desired, should be facilitated. Then if an agreement to purchase is facilitated all that was mentioned or promised becomes part of the P&S……….**IN WRITING**.
Real Estate is not rocket science. Knowing and educating your clients is essential. Incompetent Agents out there that make promises to buyers and sellers and “educating people” to suit their own financial needs is why there is so much litigation.
Take away the 6% golden carrot and infuse facilitators and an Attorney and you will see a sharp decline in litigation. Having sellers and buyers meet, when both request to do so, has no bearing on potential litigation.
Just more Real Estate fodder in an effort to not lose that commission.
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 5, 2009 at 2:48 pm
By Ray Pepper @ 57:
That would be merger, because that would be a contract term that should be in writing. Again I’m talking about misrepresentations, not omitted contract terms.
Back in my attorney days I represented someone who bought “waterfront” property that wasn’t. It was advertised as waterfront, the buyer had discussions with one of the agents about building a dock and other things that made it clearly apparent that being waterfront was important. Rather than waterfront, what it really was happened to be a lot in a development on a lake that had an easement around the entire lake for all the owners of the development. Rather than waterfront, the property was merely adjacent to the easement. Anyway, there was nothing in the contract about the property being waterfront, and quite frankly I had a hard time convincing the real estate agencies’ attorneys that they had any liability at all–until I brought them in front of a judge who told them in no uncertain terms they had a lot of exposure and that they needed to settle. They did.
By Ray Pepper @ 57:
I can understand why you’re unwilling to admit this, because it clearly doesn’t fit with your business model. I, on the other hand, have absolutely no other reason to tell my seller clients to avoid contact with buyers, but that’s exactly what I do because any such meeting exposes them to potential liability and increases their potential to be a party to litigation.
AMS » Mar 6, 2009 at 4:09 pm
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 36 –
How about December pending sales?
Kary L. Krismer » Mar 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm
RE: AMS @ 59 – Pending volume isn’t something I track, but it was down about 175 from the prior year. January sales were down 363 from the prior January. So that would indicate that the January sales decline was more than just the snow. Off the top of my head most the difference would be either sales that take longer to close and sales that flipped.
sold in seattle » Mar 8, 2009 at 3:10 pm
If everyone on this site hates to use realtors, just don’t use them. Done. End of whinning. But then it wouldn’t be Seattle, would it? I remember now why I moved far away. Thank you. Enjoy your crappy weather, rude populace and double tall latte.
Dave » Apr 6, 2009 at 11:27 am
Anyone else notice that the NWMLS has revised the closed sales number in Feb to be 866 (from 661, a 34% increase)?
The Tim » Apr 6, 2009 at 11:31 am
RE: Dave @ 62 – They haven’t revised anything as far as I can tell. 866 is the total number of SFH + condo closed sales, while 661 is the number of SFH sales only. The latter is what I consistently report here on Seattle Bubble.
Dave » Apr 6, 2009 at 11:33 am
I take that back, I was looking at res and condo. My bad.