Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

69 responses to “Monday Open Thread (2011-06-13)”

  1. Pegasus

    Bank Of America Faces New Probe; New York Attorney General Launches Investigation Into Mortgage Securitization

    New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has targeted Bank of America, the biggest U.S. bank by assets, in a new probe that questions the validity of potentially thousands of mortgage securities and their associated foreclosures, two people familiar with the matter said.

    The investigation, which began quietly in recent weeks, is part of a larger inquiry that is scrutinizing whether mortgage companies and Wall Street firms took the necessary steps under New York state law when creating mortgage-backed securities, these people said, who requested anonymity because they weren’t authorized to speak publicly about the probe.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/13/bank-of-america-mortgage-investigation-schneiderman_n_875681.html

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  2. Kary L. Krismer

    Father allegedly implements daughter in property flipping scheme, in part apparently by improperly claiming he was terminal.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Charge-Real-estate-fraudster-ruined-daughter-in-1418870.php

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  3. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2

    Family Real Estate Fraud

    Let’s say your sister hates you and she’s the exceutor of your mom’s estate….your mom passes away and your sister sells your mom’s house for $50K [its worth like $200K] to her son…gives you [her brother] $25K for the house [50%] and then her son and her sells the house later for $195K and they split up the swindled loot…

    The story above really happenned to a friend of mine….

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  4. Haybaler

    http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/06/thing-of-past-utah-edition-snowpack-we.html

    I’m wondering what impact an Iceage would have on realestate prices here? Maybe just a review of home values in North Dakota for an idea.

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  5. Haybaler

    728 percent of normal snowpack

    on Mammoth Mountain

    At end of May still had twice as much snow as during
    an entire normal winter

    10 Jun 11 – As of the end of May, the snow on California’s Mammoth Mountain had not even begun to melt. It still had twice as much snow as it receives during an entire normal winter.

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  6. No Name Guy

    RE: softwarengineer @ 3

    As described, that’s a breach of the fiduciary duty on the part of the executor. Sounds like the brother would have recourse against the sister / executor – if this happened in the recent past, the brother should go see an attorney.

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  7. No Name Guy

    How much does anyone want to wager that before too long, there will be a “reality” show about folks becoming landlords and the “easy” money they’ll make ;-)…..just as there was on flippers back around the peak.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/112913/investing-rentals-could-be-good-marketwatch?mod=bb-budgeting

    Snips from the article:
    As home prices fall and rents rise, some investors are plunking their money into real estate, chasing the cash flow that comes along with becoming a landlord.”

    “In general, that investors are beginning to snap up rental properties is a good thing for the stabilization of housing markets, King said. It’s also one of the ways that a floor on real-estate prices can be established; as more investors spot opportunities in residential markets, prices could bottom.

    “Once investors come into a community, you’re seeing the beginning of the end of the decline,” King said.
    End snips

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  8. deejayoh

    By Haybaler @ 5:

    728 percent of normal snowpack

    on Mammoth Mountain

    At end of May still had twice as much snow as during
    an entire normal winter

    10 Jun 11 – As of the end of May, the snow on California’s Mammoth Mountain had not even begun to melt. It still had twice as much snow as it receives during an entire normal winter.

    more dispatches from the climate = weather crew

    here’s an article from the NYT that actually talks about climate, not weather.
    1,000-Year Record Shows Unusual Snowpack Declines — Study

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  9. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 3 – That probably would be somehow actionable, but it’s also tied up inside an estate,which could greatly shorten time limits to contest and even limit actions if notice of the sale was given. I never did much (any?) probate work, so I don’t know the nuts and bolts.

    I would second the comment about seeing an attorney.

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  10. Kary L. Krismer

    By Haybaler @ 4:

    I’m wondering what impact an Iceage would have on realestate prices here? Maybe just a review of home values in North Dakota for an idea.

    Should I avoid buying a heat pump? ;-)

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  11. Haybaler

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 – I have one. They can’t make heat when it is very cold outside. You need an auxiliary heat source. One the other hand they work great as an air conditioner when it is hot outside…..but you knew all this, right?

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  12. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Haybaler @ 11 – Exactly, and your question made me think that maybe it will never be very warm outside ever again! ;-)

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  13. Haybaler

    RE: deejayoh @ 8

    OK. I’ll see your questionable study published in the NYT, consider the source, and raise you with a 10,000 year study with some real science behind it.

    2010—where does it fit in the warmest year list?

    9,099th

    By Dr Don Easterbrook

    28 Dec 10 – 1934 has long been considered the warmest year of the past century. A decade ago, the closest challenger appeared to be 1998, a super-el nino year, but it trailed 1934 by 0.54°C (0.97°F).

    Since then, NASA GISS has “adjusted” the U.S. data for 1934 downward and 1998 upward (see December 25, 2010 post by Ira Glickstein) in an attempt to make 1998 warmer than 1934 and seemingly erased the original rather large lead of 1934 over 1998. The last phases of the strong 2009-2010 el nino in early 2010 made this year another possible contender for the warmest year of the century.

    However, December 2010 has been one of the coldest Decembers in a century in many parts of the world, so 2010 probably won’t be warmer than 1998. But does it really matter? Regardless of which year wins the temperature adjustment battle, how significant will that be? To answer that question, we need to look at a much longer time frame‒centuries and millennia.

    The past 10,000 years

    Most of the past 10,000 have been warmer than the present. Figure 4 shows temperatures from the GISP2 Greenland ice core. With the exception of a brief warm period about 8,200 years ago, the entire period from 1,500 to 10,500 years ago was significantly warmer than present.

    Figure 4. Temperatures over the past 10,500 years recorded in the GISP2
    Greenland ice core. (Modified from Cuffy and Clow, 1997)

    Another graph of temperatures from the Greenland ice core for the past 10,000 years is shown in Figure 5. It shows essentially the same temperatures as Cuffy and Clow (1997) but with somewhat greater detail. What both of these temperature curves show is that virtually all of the past 10,000 years has been warmer than the present.

    Figure 5. Temperatures over the past 10,000 years
    recorded in the GISP2 Greenland ice core.

    So where do the 1934/1998/2010 warm years rank in the long-term list of warm years? Of the past 10,500 years, 9,100 were warmer than 1934/1998/2010. Thus, regardless of which year ( 1934, 1998, or 2010) turns out to be the warmest of the past century, that year will rank number 9,099 in the long-term list.

    The climate has been warming slowly since the Little Ice Age (Fig. 5), but it has quite a ways to go yet before reaching the temperature levels that persisted for nearly all of the past 10,500 years.

    It’s really much to do about nothing.

    Dr. Don Easterbrook is a Professor of Geology at Western Washington University in Bellingham, WA.
    Also see his article “Looming Threat of Global Cooling,” which I posted on May 23rd of this year.

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  14. Pegasus

    New York, Delaware Said to Probe Trustee Banks for Mortgage Securities

    Mortgage securitization requires several properly executed transfers, and if the required legal steps aren’t followed “to the letter,” ownership of the mortgage loans may come into question, according to a report last year by the Congressional Oversight Panel. If the process didn’t comply with documents governing the securitization, then the assets wouldn’t have been transferred to the trust, according to the report.

    “If documentation problems prove to be pervasive and, more importantly, throw into doubt the ownership of not only foreclosed properties but also pooled mortgages, the consequences could be severe,” the report said. “Clear and uncontested property rights are the foundation of the housing market. If these rights fall into question, that foundation could collapse.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-13/new-york-delaware-said-to-probe-trustees-of-mortgage-backed-securities.html

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  15. Pegasus

    RE: Haybaler @ 13 – You mean you don’t believe all of the junk science reports that are slanted to convince everyone that we need the carbon credit programs? The programs that are designed to do one thing only under the guise of climate warming which is to loot the middle class once again?

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  16. softwarengineer

    RE: Pegasus @ 15

    Everything is a Joke, Including Recycling [Especially Recycling]

    Without population control. I hear just raising/feeding a dog in America has the carbon footprint of a Hummer.

    One Boeing jet plane ride= all the possible energy improvements to a house in a year, recycling for a year, etc in carbon footprint equivalency…..LOL

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  17. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 9

    Most of the Probate Lawsuits I Know Of

    Went on for years and by the time they were done, the estate was dry anyway from legal fees….it may be a moot point.

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  18. softwarengineer

    RE: The Tim @ 18 -I Saw That Too Tim

    Its got the far left in a huff….like the food stamp program just has to be 99 44/100 % pure. Another reason I’m independent.

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  19. Flotown

    Tim,

    Any thought behind the seemingly precipitous declines in sold and listing price/sf in several north Seattle neighborhoods, as seen on Redfin? (e.g., 98115, 98117)?

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  20. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 17 – In bankruptcy court I was once watching a fight over a number of pianos involving many parties (I don’t remember what the situation was other than that). The judge suggested that it would make the most sense to just give each attorney one piano.

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  21. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 22

    LOL Kary

    So true in a lion’s share of cases.

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  22. Pegasus

    Appeals Court Clarifies MERS Role in Foreclosures

    The ubiquitous Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, nominal holder of millions of mortgages, does not have the right to foreclose on a mortgage in default or assign that right to anyone else if it does not hold the underlying promissory note, the Appellate Division, Second Department, ruled Friday. “This Court is mindful of the impact that this decision may have on the mortgage industry in New York, and perhaps the nation,” Justice John M. Leventhal wrote for a unanimous panel in Bank of New York v. Silverberg, 17464/08. “Nonetheless, the law must not yield to expediency and the convenience of lending institutions. Proper procedures must be followed to ensure the reliability of the chain of ownership, to secure the dependable transfer of property, and to assure the enforcement of the rules that govern real property.” The opinion noted that MERS is involved in about 60 percent of the mortgages originated in the United States.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/kaboom-ny-appellate-division-bank-ny-v-silverberg-mers-does-not-have-right-foreclose-mortgag

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  23. Raymond

    http://web.archive.org/web/20071210105141/http://homebuying.about.com/od/buyingahome/qt/052207BadDeals.htm

    Inspired by the “Pending sales mean nothing” article, I looked into why pending sales go bad. And I found the site above.

    In December 2007, a buyer backed out at closing. The commentary says, “This was a buyer who five years from now will likely regret her decision.” I bet the buyer is thanking her lucky stars she backed out while she still had the chance.

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  24. Snigliastic

    Does anyone get earthquake insurance around here?

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  25. deejayoh

    By Haybaler @ 13:

    RE: deejayoh @ 8

    OK. I’ll see your questionable study published in the NYT, consider the source, and raise you with a 10,000 year study with some real science behind it.

    NYT was the same source you used for your original post. That was kind of the point. That plus referring to this year’s snowpack as if it is evidence of some trend. Kind of like saying if it’s sunny in seattle today, we’re in for a really nice summer.

    If you choose to take your science from WWU professors, I’ll leave you to it.

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  26. Pegasus

    RE: deejayoh @ 27 – It is all predicable from studying woolly bear caterpillars and the winter coats of horses.

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  27. S-Crow

    RE: Pegasus @ 24 -What a mess. Thanks for that link. The dominoes are starting to fall. First an Oregon judge a week or so ago claims MERS is unable to make a foreclosure action and now NY. The implications of this 1) may build stronger cases for attorneys, 2) will give foreclosed homeowners potential claims against lenders and 3) potentially rock the title insurance world and 4) those that purchased foreclosed homes may have title issues.

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  28. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: S-Crow @ 29 – But again, that will vary by state. I think the finality of non-judicial foreclosures in Washington will likely prevail, but I do think that one Washington case where the trustee foreclosed outside the 120 day window could come back and bite. I think that went up on appeal to the state Supreme Court.

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  29. Haybaler

    RE: Pegasus @ 14
    hey! Did you catch that article I posted for you last week about an Oregon court telling Mers and Servicers acting for Mers to redo foreclosures as it voided one because of a sloppy chain of assignments?

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  30. pfft

    By Haybaler @ 5:

    728 percent of normal snowpack

    on Mammoth Mountain

    At end of May still had twice as much snow as during
    an entire normal winter

    10 Jun 11 – As of the end of May, the snow on California’s Mammoth Mountain had not even begun to melt. It still had twice as much snow as it receives during an entire normal winter.

    climate change. it’s warming the air and that means more snow in some places.

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  31. pfft

    By deejayoh @ 8:

    By Haybaler @ 5:
    728 percent of normal snowpack

    on Mammoth Mountain

    At end of May still had twice as much snow as during
    an entire normal winter

    10 Jun 11 – As of the end of May, the snow on California’s Mammoth Mountain had not even begun to melt. It still had twice as much snow as it receives during an entire normal winter.

    more dispatches from the climate = weather crew

    here’s an article from the NYT that actually talks about climate, not weather.
    1,000-Year Record Shows Unusual Snowpack Declines — Study

    no this was predicted by climate scientists.

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  32. pfft

    By Pegasus @ 15:

    RE: Haybaler @ 13 – You mean you don’t believe all of the junk science reports that are slanted to convince everyone that we need the carbon credit programs? The programs that are designed to do one thing only under the guise of climate warming which is to loot the middle class once again?

    the corporations are polluting for free and sticking us with the bill.

    climate change is real. even the bush admin signed off on it. hell even Romney believes in it and he doesn’t believe anything that stands in the way of his reelection.

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  33. Hugh Dominic

    RE: Raymond @ 25 – The best part of that is the note underneath that. It says that a good real estate agent can help a buyer avoid getting cold feet.

    It’s always a good time to earn a commission.

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  34. Hugh Dominic

    RE: Raymond @ 25 – The best part of that is the note underneath that. It says that a good real estate agent can help a buyer avoid getting cold feet.

    It’s always a good time to earn a commission.

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  35. Scotsman

    So, after 40 years of expansion, where are we economically?

    “I would suggest my readers disengage from the idea of changing the future course of events and engage in acts of self-preservation immediately.”

    http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2011/06/13/the-federal-reserves-new-agenda/

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  36. David S

    It looks like the wheels really came off the Zillow zestimate wagon yesterday. Zestimate historical data and current valuations swung wildly. Either it’s some kind of virus or Redfin now has one less market competitor because Zillow is broken bad. You can’t even see it unless you have a screenshot of the property from Sunday or early Monday because it is all just washed over.

    Example: “In addition to my above question, I received an email from Zillow stating that my home’s value “increased +1.3%”. How is that possible when yesterday, the home was valued at $170,500, and today it is valued at $154,600? Zillow, you have some ‘splainin’ to do!”

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  37. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David S @ 38 – There is something odd going on. That property I mentioned yesterday is now down about 15% from what it sold for recently, rather than over what it sold for recently. But the graph is not yet updated.

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  38. No Name Guy

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/priced-gold-median-home-price-down-80-past-decade

    “It is kind of the fine folks who compile the Case Shiller index to finally “definitively” tell us that home prices have now officially double-dipped (or is that quadruple dipped when one adjusted for the pro forma impact of QE1 and 2?). Well, below is a chart that cuts right through the noise and semantics, and shows that when expressed in a currency that has not been battered and diluted endlessly, the true normalized value of housing is really down 80% not just since the housing peak but since the turn of the millennium. ”

    Chart is at the link.

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  39. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: No Name Guy @ 40 – That proves perhaps gold is extremely overpriced right now, but not much else.

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  40. softwarengineer

    RE: Snigliastic @ 26

    Eartquake Insurance is a Joke

    Check it out, they put a $50-100K deductable on it, meaning if the house still likely stands, but the cupboards all crashed to the floor and the drywall is cracked….the deductable will more than cover the typical damages incurred….the luckiest thing to happen to your house after an earthquake is it burns down from a gas leak and you can fix it on your fire insurance.

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  41. softwarengineer

    RE: Scotsman @ 37

    Stagflation.

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  42. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 42 – First, if the fire is the result of an earthquake, I’m not sure regular insurance would cover the loss.

    Second, you really don’t understand insurance if you think earthquake insurance is a joke. The most important thing to insure for are large losses which are relatively unlikely to occur. That fits earthquakes perfectly, and the reason the deductible is so high is because the risk of loss is so great. Having lower deductibles would be very expensive.

    To answer Sniglastic’s question though, I have earthquake insurance and most condos around here have earthquake insurance too.

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  43. Pegasus

    By Haybaler @ 31:

    RE: Pegasus @ 14
    hey! Did you catch that article I posted for you last week about an Oregon court telling Mers and Servicers acting for Mers to redo foreclosures as it voided one because of a sloppy chain of assignments?

    I did see it. Thanks for posting it.

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  44. One Eyed Man
  45. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 46 – Thanks for posting that. Geovera has just a large share because a lot of insurance companies (e.g. Pemco and other names you don’t see in that list) don’t want the exposure to the risk. I’m a bit surprised State Farm wants that much exposure, although I’m sure they have it backed up somehow.

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  46. Pegasus

    By One Eyed Man @ 46:

    RE: Snigliastic @ 26

    http://www.insurance.wa.gov/consumers/Home/earthquakecompanies.shtml

    I think after the insurance companies decided to offer less coverage at a higher cost and huge deductible that the actual amount of homeowners carrying earthquake insurance has dropped to about seven percent of the potential earthquake insurance buyer pool.

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  47. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 42 – I can’t find an answer to the fire caused by earthquake question. In Japan you would need earthquake insurance for that, in California by statute fire insurance covers it. I couldn’t find anything for Washington.

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  48. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Pegasus @ 48 – When did earthquake insurance not have a high deductible?

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  49. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50

    I Agree Kary

    To my knowledge, its been decades of the same scenario. I hear also they won’t insure brick homes and its probably slam-dunk brick chimneys aren’t covered either.

    I hear homes built on slide areas can’t be insured [any type of insurance] either….I imagine these expensive waterfront homes can only be bought with cash in that case….

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  50. Pegasus

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 50:

    RE: Pegasus @ 48 – When did earthquake insurance not have a high deductible?

    Went up not long after the NIsqually quake. Also there was a quake in California that insurance companies used to jack rates in 1994(Northbridge quake). In 2006 Allstate which was the 12th largest earthquake insurer dropped earthquake insurance nationally after they took a bath on Katrina. Insurance companies also started to limit insurance on certain building material types and year of construction. Homes built prior to 1982 were not required to be bolted to the foundation. In order to get insurance on older homes you have to retrofit bolting the building to the foundation.

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  51. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 51 – I’m not sure about brick homes, but I think they do cover brick chimneys. That alone though wouldn’t come close to covering the deductible. (As an aside, I hate houses that have what I call wood chimneys.)

    I’m not sure about regular insurance on houses on slopes, but one thing you do need to do within 5 days of mutual acceptance on a house is to call and make sure you can get insurance for a reasonable price. I usually explain that as being more related to things like mold, meth production, etc., but I suppose it could also pertain to slope. I do remember at our old house having to have pictures taken of the surroundings to get earthquake, but not at the new house. Both were about the same distance away from any slope at all (e.g. 200+ feet).

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  52. Kary L. Krismer

    By Pegasus @ 52:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 50:
    RE: Pegasus @ 48 – When did earthquake insurance not have a high deductible?

    Went up not long after the NIsqually quake. Also there was a quake in California that insurance companies used to jack rates in 1994(Northbridge quake). In 2006 Allstate which was the 12th largest earthquake insurer dropped earthquake insurance nationally after they took a bath on Katrina. Insurance companies also started to limit insurance on certain building material types and year of construction. Homes built prior to 1982 were not required to be bolted to the foundation. In order to get insurance on older homes you have to retrofit bolting the building to the foundation.

    The Nisqually quake was in 2001, and all insurance went up after 9/11. I had earthquake through that entire time, and I don’t recall the increases being more than other insurance.

    Both the houses we’ve had earthquake on were built before 1982, and neither were bolted down. I’m sure the age of the house affects the rate though.

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  53. softwarengineer

    Its Official, Stagflation Shiller Data Home Price Declines Now Worse Than Great Depression

    Article:

    “…It’s official: The housing crisis that began in 2006 and has recently entered a double dip is now worse than the Great Depression. Prices have fallen some 33 percent since the market began its collapse, greater than the 31 percent fall that began in the late 1920s and culminated in the early 1930s, according to Case-Shiller data….”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Housing-Crisis-Is-Now-cnbc-829408274.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

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  54. Pegasus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 54 – “Both the houses we’ve had earthquake on were built before 1982, and neither were bolted down. I’m sure the age of the house affects the rate though.”

    Give me the name of your insurer and I will have them look into your policy for you to see if you are being charged correctly. ;>)

    My earthquake insurance rate and deductible went up about a year or so after the Nisqually quake. Had nothing to do with 9/11.

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  55. Pegasus

    Bank of America Accused of Obstructing Foreclosure Probe

    Another bad bank doing God’s work…

    Back in December, Bank of America was sued by Arizona over mortgage modification programs intended to keep Countrywide borrowers out of foreclosure. Arizona accused the bank of pursuing foreclosures even while requests for modifications were pending.

    Now a gollying accusation by a U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development’s inspector general has been filed as an exhibit in that lawsuit. The report says that Bank of America “significantly hindered” a federal review of its foreclosure practices.

    “Our review was significantly hindered by Bank of America’s (NYSE: bac) reluctance to allow us to interview employees or provide data and information in a timely manner,” said William Nixon, an assistant regional inspector general for HUD.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bank-of-America-Accused-of-cnbc-2190040243.html;_ylt=AojkwETcMI4xGdR6IGCqJk4Uaq9_;_ylu=X3oDMTE1YmRsc2gxBHBvcwM3BHNlYwN0b3BzdG9yaWVzBHNsawNib2ZhYWN

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  56. deejayoh

    By softwarengineer @ 55:

    Its Official, Stagflation Shiller Data Home Price Declines Now Worse Than Great Depression

    Article:

    “…It’s official: The housing crisis that began in 2006 and has recently entered a double dip is now worse than the Great Depression. Prices have fallen some 33 percent since the market began its collapse, greater than the 31 percent fall that began in the late 1920s and culminated in the early 1930s, according to Case-Shiller data….”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Housing-Crisis-Is-Now-cnbc-829408274.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

    Please read this article. There was no case shiller data in the great depression. Or really housing data of any type. Comparisons like this are pointless.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/06/is-residential-real-estate-worse-than-during-depression/

    Cliff notes for the link challenged:

    Never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative!

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  57. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: deejayoh @ 58 – I’ve always considered the older C-S data very suspect, because if you had a house built in 1910 and maintained in very good condition, chances are it was built on what would today be considered very prime land, and thus the value of the land alone would have appreciated more than typical. Also, over that time it’s likely other improvements would have been made to the home, such as electricity, more than one bathroom, etc.

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  58. Kary L. Krismer

    By Pegasus @ 56:

    My earthquake insurance rate and deductible went up about a year or so after the Nisqually quake. Had nothing to do with 9/11.

    Almost all insurance went up then. Blaming it on 9/11 is not quite right, because it was really about the return of the industry in the markets, and that wasn’t good at that point in time, even prior to 9/11. 9/11 didn’t help the markets, however. But the point is, insurance rates of various types did go up after 9/11.

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  59. Pegasus

    I spoke with the Wa. Insurance Commissioner’s office back then and they told me the insurance companies were able to justify the increases and lower coverage based earthquake risk and experience( Nisqually). I had called to see if the increases were limited to only a few companies. They told me it was pretty much universal and they had rubber-stamped the increases as usual so as not to disrupt the kleptocracy. Actually they did not tell me they had rubber-stamped the increases as usual so as not to disrupt the kleptocracy but if you follow the progress of the insurance companies in looting the citizens of Washington it really is not much of a leap to figure it out.

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  60. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Pegasus @ 61 – I wonder if any insurance company had to pay out even a dime for Nisqualy? You would need to have a severely damaged building that was covered by insurance. Severely damaged buildings were rare as I recall (e.g. the one old one in Pioneer Square).

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  61. Pegasus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 62 – Estimates were 2 billion in damage mostly to roads, bridges and public buildings. I think the damage to SFH was pretty limited in comparison. Don’t know what the final tab was or specifically for homes. Time for google to work.

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  62. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Pegasus @ 63 – I wonder if there’s even any insurance on government assets for earthquake? If not, then they wouldn’t have paid out much.

    I remember the King County Courthouse was badly damaged. Even that though probably wasn’t 10% of the value of the building.

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  63. Pegasus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 64 – Here is one on households done by UW:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/11/021121070101.htm

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  64. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Pegasus @ 65 – Interesting, but note the average dollar amount of the losses, being under $1,500 even in the worst areas. They did mention a loss range of $10,000-$20,000, but even that would be unlikely to result in an insurance company paying a dime.

    Speaking of Google, check out this:
    http://www.nonprofitrisk.org/library/articles/insurance01002002.shtml

    It explains the concept of a “hard market” in the insurance industry, and how one was just starting to form in 2001.

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  65. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 37:

    So, after 40 years of expansion, where are we economically?

    expanding again? the recession ended almost 2 years ago dude.

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  66. pfft

    By No Name Guy @ 40:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/priced-gold-median-home-price-down-80-past-decade

    “It is kind of the fine folks who compile the Case Shiller index to finally “definitively” tell us that home prices have now officially double-dipped (or is that quadruple dipped when one adjusted for the pro forma impact of QE1 and 2?). Well, below is a chart that cuts right through the noise and semantics, and shows that when expressed in a currency that has not been battered and diluted endlessly, the true normalized value of housing is really down 80% not just since the housing peak but since the turn of the millennium. ”

    Chart is at the link.

    that show that the housing bubble ended in 2002. not really credible.

    the dollar hasn’t been endlessly diluted and battered. it’s basically traded in a range for 30 years.

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  67. pfft

    By softwarengineer @ 43:

    RE: Scotsman @ 37

    Stagflation.

    inflation is under 3%.

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