The Sex Offender Bogeyman

One of the primary goals of many home shoppers is finding a neighborhood that is safe. That makes sense. No one wants to live in constant fear of having their valuables stolen—or worse, being assaulted. However, there is one specific “safety” criteria that makes little sense to weigh heavily in one’s home search: Registered Sex Offenders.

Searching for registered sex offenders is easy with sites like CrimeReports, which puts links to your local law enforcement’s detailed offender info right on a map. However, just because it’s easy doesn’t mean it’s particularly useful.

Before I go on, I want to be very clear that sex crimes are serious business, and I’m not downplaying the seriousness of the crimes in any way. That said, in my opinion it’s silly to fret about the number of registered sex offenders living in an area, and even more ridiculous use it as a major deciding factor in your home search. Here are a few reasons why:

  • Most sex offenders assault people they already know.
  • They’re registered, so you know exactly who they are.
  • If they want to re-offend, they aren’t limited to the neighborhood they live in.
  • It’s the unregistered and uncaught criminals that you should really worry about.

Allow me to illustrate some of these points. Using the aforementioned CrimeReports, I pulled up a map of my own neighborhood and started clicking through to the first ten offender detail pages nearest to my home. Here are some excerpts from the descriptions of their crimes:

  • …sexually assaulting the unknown 14 year old male victim… grabbed his buttocks…
  • …sexually assaulting the known 13 year old female victim… sexually assaulting the known 14 year old female victim…
  • …entered a on-line chat room. Once in this chat room he committed his lewd offense by exposing in front of his web cam…
  • …sexually assaulting the known six year old male victim…
  • …was 21 years of age at the time of the crime molested a 14 year old female. His vehicle was parked in a posted no trespassing area and he and the victim were watching a pornographic DVD inside the vehicle. Both were naked…
  • The victim in this crime was a 11 year old female who was molested when the victim was taken on walks… His next victim was a 12 year old female who had gone to his home to play video games…
  • …was on line and talking to what he believed to be a 12 year old and in fact was a detective.
  • …sexually assaulting the known female victim from her age of one to five years old…
  • The victim in these crimes were both 14 year-old females, known to the offender.
  • …he harbored the known (he had known her about a month) 14 year old female victim after she had runaway from home.

Again, all of the crimes described above are inexcusable, but do any of these guys really sound like people you should live in fear of just because they happen to live a couple blocks away from you?

The majority of registered sex offenders (and seven of the ten in the list above) commit their crime against someone they already know (a friend or family member). Since a registered sex offender is, well, registered, it’s pretty easy to make sure your wife and kids aren’t spending time with him, even if he lives just down the block.

In the specific examples I pulled up from around my home, two of the three offenders who did not assault people they already knew committed their crimes online. I understand that with this newfangled internet thing you can go anywhere you want right from the comfort of your own home. Do you think that by living in some sterile suburban protective bubble you can avoid these online predators?

Speaking of mobility, you realize that the internet isn’t the only way for a sex predator to find potential victims, right? Sex offenders can drive cars & ride buses just like normal people. Just because you don’t have any living within a mile of your home doesn’t mean that there aren’t any hanging out in your neighborhood or in the parks or businesses you frequent.

But really when it comes down to it, this whole registered sex offender thing is a misdirection anyway. People worry about it because the information is out there and easy to find. But how many registered drunk drivers, registered drug dealers, registered car thieves, registered assaulters, or registered burglars do you have in your neighborhood? Oh right, none, because most of the crimes that home owners should be worried about don’t require offenders to register their location for life. And what about the sexual predators that just haven’t been caught yet? For all you know one could be living right next door to that home you just made an offer on.

Worrying about registered sex offenders is silly. Sure, if everything else is equal, anyone would rather not live in a neighborhood with a handful of known creeps. But everything else is never equal. It’s better to know what you’re getting into than to be ignorant, but if you’re ruling out a neighborhood just because of registered sex offenders, you’re limiting yourself unnecessarily, and possibly missing out on a great home for no good reason.

  

About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

243 comments:

  1. 1

    “If they want to re-offend, they aren’t limited to the neighborhood they live in.”

    Exactly the reason I think it’s nonsense.

    The best way to deal with crime is taking protective measures. Absent perhaps stray bullets flying around, prevention efforts can be very effective.

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  2. 2
    Lake Hills Renter says:

    It’s going to be interesting watching the responses to this. Nothing gets peoples’ knees jerking like violent love offenses, particularly regarding children. It’s a horrible crime, child or not, but the gut reactions people have to this topic is just astounding sometimes.

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  3. 3
    goldbach says:

    Playing Devil’s Advocate:

    One consideration I have when looking for property is the fact that I won’t live there forever, and I want to increase the chance that I can sell it quickly and for a decent price (no guarantees, of course). Therefore, it behooves me to consider factors that other people weight heavily, even if I don’t care much about them myself. In other words, since other people care about kitten kickers in an area, shouldn’t I care about them as well?

    (For my personal situation, I’m pretty sure I’ll live in any place I buy for at least 5 years, and may look to upgrade in the 5-10 year time-frame, so the locations of kitten kickers aren’t likely to change dramatically).

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  4. 4
    HappyRenter says:

    A while ago I heard the advice that one good reason for hiring a real estate agent is that they “know” where all the kitten kickers in a neighborhood are. I don’t remember whether they meant both, the registered and the un-registered.

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  5. 5
    Real World Express says:

    1. The majority of violent love offenses are due to family members and friends and occur in the home…most of these are never reported.

    2. 50 percent of all violent love offenses are committed by people under 30…and the rate drops off precipitously with age. The 19 year old watching your kids is more likely a kitten kicker than the stereotypical “creepy old guy”.

    Since we’re talking about crime and its effect on neighborhood, violent crime in Seattle (and most other places) has dropped to 1940s levels!

    And now it’s reported that auto thefts have dropped to 1967 levels.

    That means that in addition to all the foreclosures and short sales, previously “dangerous” neighborhoods are now becoming habitable by the middle class.

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  6. 6
    Mel Torme says:

    I don’t know if you looked through the whole list of people, Tim, when you put up those explanations. However, allow me to add a coupla more:

    – 35 year old man is listed due to his having had violent love with a 16 1/2 year old girl back when he was 18. (Who among you would have passed that up, honestly?)

    – 45 year old man is listed due to his arrest for peeing on a nearby brick wall outside the bar while he was waiting for his ride. (yes, they like to put anyone they can on this list).

    I wonder if any real estate agents are on this list. I don’t mean to mention any of the guy/girls in the comments, of course.*

    * I checked; they weren’t on there. ;-)

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  7. 7
    patient says:

    I have to give it to you Tim, you’re fearless. You should know though that parenting is not mainly logical but emotional. We do anything to protect our kids and many want to eliminate every conceivable risk factor no matter how small, illogical or expensive. Once you have taken your child to the emergency you’ll understand why. The world stops turning and you’ll do anything, anything for your child to get better.

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  8. 8
    Matt the Engineer says:

    RE: goldbach @ 3 – That sounds a fine strategy at its face, but in theory such factors are already priced into the market. The value of a home near child molesters has already gone down the day the names hit the registry. If you find a home without nearby molesters you’re paying a premium for that house. Yes, you get that premium back when you sell, but only if the registry hasn’t changed. But since people (including molesters) move, that registry is likely to change. With the molesterless house your value can only go down, making it the worst investment.

    Anyway, like most things, choosing factors in your home to satisfy future buyers isn’t always the best idea.

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  9. 9
    ray pepper says:

    Wow……………..The worst Post and ADVICE I HAVE EVER read!!

    “Do you think that by living in some sterile suburban protective bubble you can avoid these online predators”

    NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    But, why even put yourself and your family into possible harms way when the information exists. Right or wrong I do NOT want to know my family is around these KNOWN offenders!!

    Is it not part of my status of being a FATHER to LIMIT the possibility of HARM to my family especially when I already know some data exists?

    As a Parent and Coach we MUST do ALL WE CAN to PROTECT the ones that cannot PROTECT themselves. Any talk of limiting this practice (in anyway) should be met with STERN OPPOSITION!

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  10. 10
    ray pepper says:

    RE: patient @ 7

    “I have to give it to you Tim, you’re fearless”

    No he isn’t.

    Just unknowingly STUPID and NOT a parent. So he simply DOES NOT KNOW!

    Kicking Tim today would be like kicking my dog Sam.

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  11. 11
    The Tim says:

    RE: ray pepper @ 10 – Ray, you’re apparently rather ignorant on the subject and letting your emotions get in the way of logical judgement. Here’s some suggested reading for you:

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  12. 12
    No Name Guy says:

    Ray @ 10

    Or, how about focusing your protective energy on those things that will actually protect your brood? Fixating on very low probability events distracts people from more probable events (e.g. worrying about non-existent autism from vaccines while ignoring the actual threat of the disease, like measles).

    Your energy is better spent insuring your brood wears their bike helmet. Looks both ways before crossing the street. Keeping your household chemicals & medicines safely locked away. Insuring your kids are buckled up EVERY time you drive. Making sure your teenage kids don’t drink & drive. Teaching your teenage child proper driving skills and attitudes. And the list can go on.

    You certainly know the economic concept – the opportunity cost, coupled with having only limited time and energy to care for the brood. Every bit of time and energy focused on a low probability event is taken away from mitigating a higher probability event.

    Oh, and stuff it on your attitude @ 11 that The Tim doesn’t understand as he’s not a parent. I get that same line of BS from my sister in law with respect to my nieces and nephews. There is NOTHING I wouldn’t do for them.

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  13. 13
    Think Man says:

    People are easily manipulated through fear of the unknown. The only difference between a human being and an animal is that a human being is able to check their own behaviour through being conscious.

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  14. 14
    EastBellevueEtherBinge says:

    All the arguments presented here are true. It just depends on your perspective. A parent with young children and a convicted rapist across the fence will have a different perspective from a non-parent with a vague idea that there are a few “offenders” within a half-mile radius. Sort of like the difference between living “near” a dam or living directly “under” a dam. The point made about the vast disparity in classifying offenders (i.e., lumping in the nocturnal urinater with the individual that kidnapped, tortured and raped) is the most salient one here, I think.

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  15. 15

    Looking at the violent love crime registry is probably worth doing, even if the likelihood of them repeating the crime is less than 50%.
    Why?
    Because if you find that 90% of your immediate neighbors are convicted kitten kickers, it’s not that you expect them to repeat their crimes, but that these are your neighbors, and it’s nice to hang out with and get to know your neighbors. Maybe most of them are harmless at this point, but still a little icky-creepy?
    I think it also says something about a neighborhood. Most registered kitten kickers are not going to be able to afford Laurelhurst or Medina or Mercer Island. They’ll be in places like Auburn and Everett and Skyway.
    So, for that matter, if you’re looking for the most house for your money, maybe looking at the kitten kicker registry is a good way to go.

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  16. 16
    ray pepper says:

    No Name Guy and Tim…

    You simply do not know!

    I rented a home to two released offenders in South Tacoma nearly 12 years ago. All were under supervised care by an agency called Life Point. When I used to go there to fix various broken items I would always talk to the two guys and my opinion was they were mentally handicapped. Very very slow….

    All was fine until the LAPSE in supervision and then the incident occurred. One was transferred to another location while the offender went back to Western State or who knows where. Not learning my lesson I continued the Lease with this organization. 3 were then assigned to the home. Not 4 months went by that an “incident” occurred AGAIN in the neighborhood.. That was it…….

    These people reoffend again and again. They were preyed upon by relatives and the cycle continues. I choose to NEVER knowingly live where their is a high incidence of these vermin.

    Yes, I also do each of these as well: Looks both ways before crossing the street. Keeping your household chemicals & medicines safely locked away. Insuring your kids are buckled up EVERY time you drive. Making sure your teenage kids don’t drink & drive. Teaching your teenage child proper driving skills and attitudes. And the list can go on….IT SURE DOES!!!

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  17. 17
    patient says:

    The emotional and protective bond between a parent and a child can not be explained or fully understood by non parents. There is just nothing to compare it to. I feel like Ray about this but I don’t dislike the Tim’s post since it expands on the subject and highlights other risks to be aware of.

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  18. 18
    D. in Ballard says:

    By No Name Guy @ 12:

    Ray @ 10

    Or, how about focusing your protective energy on those things that will actually protect your brood?

    Where do you get the assumption that we don’t? The type of person to look up kitten kickers before buying a home (I’m that type) is also the type to fret about just about anything.

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  19. 19
    EastBellevueEtherBinge says:

    RE: ray pepper @ 15:

    What about the nocturnal urinaters? Can we all agree lumping them in is pretty ridiculous? Then again, maybe not. Public urination could be a gateway offense…hmm…

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  20. 20
    toad37 says:

    RE: EastBellevueEtherBinge @ 18 – Unless you had kids there is no way you could understand how bad it is to live near a public urinater. LOL, bad joke. :-)

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  21. 21
    kid says:

    i don’t think this has anything to do with being a parent or not. Depending on the offender, they might hurt a grown up man/woman, single or married, parent or not.
    I would agree that if the information is available it might be useful to see what is going on and how often the crime was committed. I wouldn’t make my decision entirely on the fact that there is a kitten kicker living a few blocks away or next door. If i feel I can protect myself and my family then it doesn’t matter where they live.
    as far as parentling or being a parent is concerned when it comes to decision making, face it not everyone can/would agree to/want to/care enough to quit their job to go a baseball game. It all depends !

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  22. 22
    hello says:

    Have a baby, and you will understand people’s fear.

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  23. 23
    ChrisM says:

    What is instructive (hinted at by Ray) is kitten kickers sharing housing (since often times they are shunned they have no other choice).

    I played around with the registry down in Clark County (WA) and found clusters of them in low-rent apartments and mobile home parks. Definitely bad neighborhoods to begin with.

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  24. 25
    ARDELL says:

    This is a tough topic for me, as I’m sure it is for Tim. For me because I am likely one of the few commenting here who was repeatedly “offended” as a child and young adult…and trust me…owning a dog (mentioned in a previous comment stream) would not have helped. Not to worry…what didn’t kill me made me stronger. But to say to care about such things when looking for a home to buy is “silly”, well, I don’t agree.

    The site I was using, HomeFacts.com lists # of “offenders” not limited to kitten kickers. The drop down shows the detail.

    When comparing areas, the norm runs from 0 to 19 ish within a one mile radius of a home. So seeing 59 to 66 within a one mile of Tim’s choice seemed out of the realm of “normal”. The main question is did he and his wife know that before they made an offer on the house. Back to “Informed Consent.” As long as someone knows this before they buy, vs finding out after they buy, it’s not necessarily a “real estate” issue. It’s in the disclosure prior to purchase, vs the choice of the buyer once they know. So eliminating it on the chart of factors seemed quite odd. It’s one thing to say “yes I know that number was many times the norm but I chose to overlook that, vs not having it on the evaluation chart at all.

    I think every home owner should look at School Ranking, Crime Rating, and # of Offenders as a package analysis. Low school rating being more acceptable in an area with low crime and lower # of offenders, as example.

    One of the only neighborhoods I have found with as many number of “offenders”, and an even higher number by 25% or so, is the one I grew up in. It’s likely much higher now than when I lived there many years ago, and almost no one I know still lives there. School? I went to Catholic School and it was around the corner from my house. High School? I went to Catholic School and the grade school bus took us door to door from the High School to the Grade School. I was never “offended” by someone at school, but then I went to an all girls Catholic High School and taught by nuns.

    Whether someone chooses to live in an area with low schools, high crime rating and high # of offenders is indeed a choice. But to not have the criteria on the decisions making chart noted in another post? It should at least be a known factor at time of purchase.

    On the “someone you know” comment, well, it depends on how you define “know”. Someone I ran into in the local grocery store and “knew”, but my parents did not know. Someone I ran into at a friends house that they “knew”, but my parents did not know. Who your children “know” and who you know are not always one in the same after age 8 or so. Kind of like the 6 degrees of separation theory. For me that started at age 10 as example for parents reading.

    In my experience it is not someone I “knew”…it is many someones that someone I knew, knew. At age 3 that does not include many people. By age 8 that starts to expand.

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  25. 26
    TylerG says:

    RE: ChrisM @ 23

    Chris, I am also looking around in Clark County. What are your thoughts on the housing market around here?

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  26. 27
    krs says:

    As a woman living alone, I don’t see why my being aware of the makeup of a neighborhood I may buy in is silly. If I feel safer choosing to avoid a neighborhood that has numerous registered kitten kickers (like certain blocks in the UDistrict where multiple offenders live in one house), why is that the business of any of you? I wouldn’t buy near any of the fraternity or sorority houses either, just for different reasons. I am not paranoid nor am I someone who worries about every little thing. But being aware when you alone are responsible for your personal safety, just makes good sense.

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  27. 28
    The Tim says:

    By krs @ 26:

    I don’t see why my being aware of the makeup of a neighborhood I may buy in is silly.

    I didn’t say that being aware is silly. Did you skip the last paragraph of the post?

    Worrying about registered kitten kickers is silly. Sure, if everything else is equal, anyone would rather not live in a neighborhood with a handful of known creeps. But everything else is never equal. It’s better to know what you’re getting into than to be ignorant, but if you’re ruling out a neighborhood just because of registered kitten kickers, you’re limiting yourself unnecessarily, and possibly missing out on a great home for no good reason.

    Emphasis added.

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  28. 29
    LA Relo says:

    “do any of these guys really sound like people you should live in fear of if they live a couple blocks away from you?”

    If I have a 14 year old daughter, yes.

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  29. 31

    By goldbach @ 3:

    (For my personal situation, I’m pretty sure I’ll live in any place I buy for at least 5 years, and may look to upgrade in the 5-10 year time-frame, so the locations of kitten kickers aren’t likely to change dramatically).

    I don’t know why you would assume that. I doubt registered kitten kickers are the most stable members of our society when it comes to moving.

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  30. 32
    krs says:

    Yes, I read the last paragraph of the post. If I pass up a “great” house because it is on a block with a house of registered kitten kickers, I am not doing it “for no good reason.” There are always other houses in other neighborhoods.

    By The Tim @ 28:

    By krs @ 26:
    I don’t see why my being aware of the makeup of a neighborhood I may buy in is silly.

    I didn’t say that being aware is silly. Did you skip the last paragraph of the post?

    Worrying about registered kitten kickers is silly. Sure, if everything else is equal, anyone would rather not live in a neighborhood with a handful of known creeps. But everything else is never equal. It’s better to know what you’re getting into than to be ignorant, but if you’re ruling out a neighborhood just because of registered kitten kickers, you’re limiting yourself unnecessarily, and possibly missing out on a great home for no good reason.

    Emphasis added.

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  31. 33
    patient says:

    Some think that just because you want to reduce the risks by not living close to scumbags automatically means that you do not keep an eye on your children or let them ride without safety belts etc. Why is that? Makes no sense to me.

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  32. 34
    The Tim says:

    RE: patient @ 33 – I would argue that you’re not really reducing your risk in any non-trivial way. You’re only reducing your perception of risk.

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  33. 35
    goldbach says:

    Re: Matt @8

    While you’re absolutely correct that things people care about are already priced into the current market, markets can change over time, and prices don’t necessarily operate in a linear fashion.

    If the market improves overall, more desirable neighborhoods will likely see the home values increase by more than those homes in a less desirable neighborhood. If it goes down, a home in a less-desirable neighborhood might have trouble selling at all. If the market stays flat, then there’s no difference.

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  34. 37
    Peter Witting says:

    I agree with you, Tim. The violent love-offender metric is easily measured, and so it gains traction as a discussion point and a decision point. However, I am more concerned about the unknown number of unregistered felons.

    That said, I am not interested in any neighborhood that has group homes of any sort. So, while individual offenders scattered here and there would not be a deciding factor, the presence of a group home would be.

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  35. 38
    patient says:

    RE: The Tim @ 34

    It is a fair argument but one that doesn’t matter. If I perceive that I’m doing something that will reduce the risk it’s still worth it. As I said before and standby parenting is an highly emotional occupation and these things count more than you can imagine.

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  36. 39
    goldbach says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 31

    True, but the neighborhoods in which kitten kickers are likely to live aren’t likely to change much in a 5-10 year time-frame, unless gentrification is already underway.

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  37. 40
    Betsy says:

    Interesting post and comments. I think that an important thing to consider when thinking about security for your kids is how much time and availability you have for them. If you are breaking the bank on a home purchase and in turn both parents are working like crazy it seems that less interruption free time with the kids equals less opportunity to make sure things are cool with them.

    Also I imagine that the level of the kitten kicker is important to consider, I would not love to live next to level 3 offenders who according to King County: are considered to have a high risk to re-offend. They usually have one or more victims and may have committed prior crimes of violence. They may not know their victim(s). The crime may show a manifest cruelty to the victim(s) and these offenders usually deny or minimize the crime. These offenders commonly have clear indications of a personality disorder. The one level 3 offender for rape near me lives on the waterfront and has the look of someone who owns a 50’ yacht.

    One last thing about security in general.. My hubby and I are moving from near the commercial district of Ballard to Magnolia after we had a run in with some attempted muggers right outside of our house a couple years back. At first we thought, this is an isolated incident we just need to be more watchful, put up an alarm, etc. More recently we noticed the increase in revelers (great bars in Ballard) and then the increase in drug dealing from cars (I don’t think they’re selling pot). We gave up as we’re sick of feeling paranoid and feeling like we’re the only eyes on the street since all the townhomes around us just fixed their situation by putting up +8 ft tall fences. The feel of the neighborhood and “community-ness” seems really important to me now. I’m so thankful we were renting.

    p.s. for all of the ladies out there: don’t be afraid to hit if someone’s coming after you. Use the heel of your hand instead of a fist and go for the neck. Making a brain stem a bit wobbly will give you time to run away

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  38. 41
    Pegasus says:

    Sounds like Tim is making excuses and trying to justify his purchase and eliminate the negatives. Me thinks Tim doth protest too much. How about Tim invites all of the kitten kickers in the area over for a 4th of July barbecue? That way you can get to know and evaluate each and everyone of them. Leave some children toys around to bring out their animal spirits. Maybe play a video of Barney in the background. Oh wait they are more likely to offend people they know….maybe getting to know them is NOT a good idea after all and living next to them isn’t either. I am sure they won’t affect your resale if you need to sell….there is a reason they disclose where they live and it is not to harass them.

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  39. 42

    Scotsman, participatory parenting is important but the community at large also plays a role. I’m glad that we are now talking to our kids about kitten kickers whereas one generation ago those conversations didn’t happen.

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  40. 43

    By patient @ 38:

    If I perceive that I’m doing something that will reduce the risk it’s still worth it.

    Not necessarily, it could in fact be counterproductive if it causes you to let your guard down. Proponents of gun control think it makes them safer too.

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  41. 44
    The Tim says:

    By Pegasus @ 41:

    Sounds like Tim is making excuses and trying to justify his purchase and eliminate the negatives. Me thinks Tim doth protest too much.

    You are making the same mistake another commenter made in Friday’s discussion. I’m not “justifying” anything, I’m explaining the logical reasoning behind decisions that I made with both eyes open.

    Your ridiculous suggestion about inviting them all over for a party implies that you are being intentionally obtuse, but as I mentioned in the post, the fact that they are registered is part of what eliminates them as a threat. You know who they are, so they are easy to avoid.

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  42. 45

    By goldbach @ 39:

    True, but the neighborhoods in which kitten kickers are likely to live aren’t likely to change much in a 5-10 year time-frame, unless gentrification is already underway.

    A lot of times the place they live happens to be their parents. That could be anywhere.

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  43. 46

    By Jillayne Schlicke @ 42:

    Scotsman, participatory parenting is important but the community at large also plays a role. I’m glad that we are now talking to our kids about kitten kickers whereas one generation ago those conversations didn’t happen.

    First, loved your matter of fact quip above about priests. I’m glad I wasn’t eating or drinking anything when I read that. Second, I’m over 50 and I remember being told not to take candy from strangers. I assume that wasn’t over concern about my teeth.

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  44. 47

    From the perspective of a psych major, in grad school my professors taught me a few things about pedophiles from their experience….

    1) 100 percent of the time, a pedophile was once the victim of violent love abuse as a child

    2) Chance of the pedophile ever being able to change and NOT desire violent love with children is zero.

    http://www.minddisorders.com/Ob-Ps/Pedophilia.html

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  45. 48
    GreenAcres says:

    By hello @ 22:

    Have a baby, and you will understand people’s fear.

    If I’m not mistaken, this is physically impossible for The Tim. Any other suggestions? :-)

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  46. 49
    Think Man says:

    Statistically speaking, one third of all women are molested or raped as a child. Most of the perps are their fathers. So buy a house not near any men, if you want to protect your flesh.

    People are immune to facts because they are half animal, mostly hormones, and are oblivious that they are wired, at the DNA level, specifically for protecting the biology/DNA of their own bodies, at all costs. It doesn’t help that we live in a society that shuns intimacy with death and everything to do with the reality that all of us one day will die.

    So protecting the flesh becomes the focal point of existence. The soul is ignored and the mindless consumer (consuming to protect the flesh) who watches four hours of TV every evening takes the place of the soul.

    Abusing stats to protect one’s flesh plays right into this. This is also how 1 million Iraqis were killed, without guilt, in an illegal war sold to us as a way to protect our flesh. Same goes for Afghanistan. Next stop: Libya.

    Teach them to ignore their soul and they will become willing servants of the Beast. There will be no guilt or shame in this, however, since we have also been taught that the Beast does not exist; that those who believe in such things are to be ridiculed, isolated, and destroyed.

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  47. 50
    No Name Guy says:

    RE: patient @ 38

    Actually there patient, you’re doing worse with that line of thinking.

    You’re wasting time, energy, emotions, etc to mitigate a PERCEIVED problem or threat, all the while, you could have been spending that time, energy and emotion addressing REAL problems or threat.

    You’d be better off not spending one iota of energy on a non-existent problem. At least you then still have the reserve to address a real issue when it crops up.

    That’s the beauty of being human – reason can trump emotion. Patient – you appear to be willing to be ruled by emotion – a poor choice to reason.

    Jillian @ 36, Tim @ 34, Matt @ 24 – spot on
    Matt nails it:
    “But you also might be on a path to keeping your kid from walking to school or locking them in the house to keep them safe from the world. And in the end that will do more harm than good.”

    Life is risky. Get used to it. Mitigate the highest probability risks first, then move on down the scale until you’ve run out of energy, time, emotion, etc. Or just run scared.

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  48. 51

    Kary and other SB readers, if you really want to understand why there are so many pedophiles within the Catholic priest system, I highly recommend a documentary film called “Deliver us from Evil.” The filmmaker came to SIFF cinema a few years ago and presented her film, which was nominated for an Oscar award that year. Fantastic film and you will have a complete understanding of what’s going on in the Catho-holic system.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814075/

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  49. 52
    Lake Hills Renter says:

    By Lake Hills Renter @ 2:

    Nothing gets peoples’ knees jerking like violent love offenses, particularly regarding children. It’s a horrible crime, child or not, but the gut reactions people have to this topic is just astounding sometimes.

    Told you. Thank you everyone (particularly Ray) for proving my point. Apparently the renter stigma has been replaced by non-parent. Anything to discredit the opinions of those you disagree with, no? To be fair, I’ve seen much worse in other forums. When is someone going to recommend we just kill them all?

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  50. 53
    Scotsman says:

    RE: Think Man @ 49

    “Statistically speaking, one third of all women are molested or raped as a child. ”

    Link? I’m not buying.

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  51. 54
    The Tim says:

    For those too busy to read all of my links in comment 11 above, here’s the money quote from the San Francisco Chronicle article:

    Research shows that kitten kickers generally have far lower recidivism rates than the general prison population: A U.S. Justice Department study last year found only 5 percent of kitten kickers had re-offended after three years. By comparison, a state Department of Corrections study earlier this year put the recidivism rate for its general inmate population at about 60 percent after three years.

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  52. 55
    Hal says:

    Tim, thank you for posting this well written article. As our country continues with the throws of this sexualy hysteria, I sincerely hope logic and reasoning will prevail. And to those who think his opinion is invalid due to him not being parent, remember one thing . . . . These former offenders are also your fathers, brothers, sisters, friends, uncles. Why people dehumanize them is beyond me because I know they will be the first to defend their family member if they are ever accused.

    I actually feel sorry for their ignorance. Because the day it does hit some of them personally, they too will feel the sting of intolerance and ignorance. When they do, I sincerely hope they remember this article.

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  53. 56
    Scotsman says:

    RE: The Tim @ 54

    Don’t try to bamboozle us with statistics- we have opinions here!! ;-)

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  54. 57
    Matt the Engineer says:

    RE: No Name Guy @ 50 – You almost have it, No Name. But I’d change your last paragraph a bit.

    “Get used to it. Mitigate the highest probability risks first, then move on down the scale until ” the affects of these mitigations begin to do more harm than good. Little in life is free. Will the clean registry house you buy mean that you have a lower quality school, have more street traffic, or mean that you have to work extra hours to pay the mortgage? If so, maybe you should take a serious look at the real dangers and benefits of your options.

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  55. 58
    Dave0 says:

    I haven’t read through all of the comments (57 already, wow!), but I agree with Tim. The number of kitten kickers within a neighborhood has no effect on how nice that neighborhood is in my opinion.

    To address neighborhood safety, I prefer to look at crimes per 1000 people. This is a direct statistic of how likely you are to be robbed, assaulted, shot, burgularized, etc. within your neighborhood. Some neighborhoods may have high crime rates, but if it is matched by high population then the high crime is not due to increased danger, its due to more people being there.

    It is hard to find this statistic published for specific neighborhoods, but if you can find # of crimes and # of people within a certain area you can calculate it yourself. For example, Tukwila population is 19,107, and the most recent tukwila annual police reports 3,446 type 1 crimes. So the crimes per 1000 people is 180.35 (3446 / 19.107).

    Mercer Island on the other hand, has a population of 22,699 and their police website reports 459 crimes in 2010, resulting in a crimes per 1000 people of 20.22 (459 / 22.699).

    Personally, I find 50 to be my personal comfort level. Anything over that and it seems like a unsafe neighborhood to me.

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  56. 59
    Lurker says:

    This was a very interesting topic, I’m glad you saved it for a time when it could be discussed on its own, The Tim. Thanks to everybody for their input and perspectives.

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  57. 60
    patient says:

    Tim your arguments might be at full collision if you expand your thinking somewhat. The reason abuse often takes place in your close circle can likely be that a sick or evil obsession (if you want make a distinction, I don’t) grows over time until it triggers a compulsion, the I had no control over my actions argument. I would argue that having your child in regular view of proven scum highly increases the risk that he/she will be the target for a growing obsession that can trigger the compulsion. I would argue that the odds are higher for that to happen than that your friend proves to have the sickness. I do think that drive by opportunity snatches of victims unknown to the offender is less common than the ones coming from a growing obsession. Anyhow this is pretty serious stuff and I’m concerned over some of the comments here and how easy people dismiss this as a non issue. It’s not something you want to be wrong about or spreading the wrong message.

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  58. 61
    masaba says:

    Why not just look at overall crime statistics for a neighborhood?

    And, as many people stated on the previous thread, it is my gut feeling that low crime neighborhoods will highly correlate with highly rated public school systems.

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  59. 62
    Pegasus says:

    RE: The Tim @ 44 – There is no logic in your decision about this. It is all about irrational behavior on you part to justify the end that you can to. I hope the adoption agencies don’t hold this against you but they are concerned about where a child ends up living.

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  60. 63
    Pegasus says:

    By The Tim @ 54:

    For those too busy to read all of my links in comment 11 above, here’s the money quote from the San Francisco Chronicle article:

    Research shows that kitten kickers generally have far lower recidivism rates than the general prison population: A U.S. Justice Department study last year found only 5 percent of kitten kickers had re-offended after three years. By comparison, a state Department of Corrections study earlier this year put the recidivism rate for its general inmate population at about 60 percent after three years.

    Here is a better article with a whole different repeat rate over time:
    http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-likely-are-violent love-offenders-to-repeat-their-crimes-258/

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  61. 64
    goldbach says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 45

    You’re right about any one individual case. However, if you increase the sample-size, you’ll find that some neighborhoods are more likely to be home to kitten kickers than other — usually because they’re poorer (violent love-offenders have a harder time finding good-paying jobs than people with clean records). There appears to be one guy in downtown Bellevue, as opposed to dozens in the Central Area of Seattle. Do you think those situations will reverse anytime soon?

    If there were someone living next door to a house I was considering, that would not affect my decision at all. 20 people in a five-block radius would make me think twice.

    Where my (Devil’s Advocate) argument falls apart is that the prevalence of violent love-offenders in a given neighborhood is a symptom tends to correspond to other factors that make neighborhoods less desirable (crime, curb appeal). In other words, if there are a lot of violent love-offenders in a given area, there are probably other factors that would reduce my potential resale value, even if they all moved away.

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  62. 65
    Tim McB says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 30

    Amen brother, preach it!

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  63. 66
    masaba says:

    RE: The Tim @ 44

    Tim, I’m not going to knee-jerk about registered kitten kickers; I agree with you to a large extent. However, you do keep bringing up this point that made your decision based on a ‘logical decision making process.’ You seem to justify this statement because you used a decision matrix. The problem with this is that a decision matrix can literally justify any decision based on how you proportion weights and fill it in. If you weight the boxes illogically, then the logical process can lead to an illogical decision.

    People are trying to ask you why you rated a neighborhood with a large number of registered kitten kickers, pretty poor public schools, and a moderately high crime rate as kid/dog friendly (which you also gave a weighting of 3, showing that you thought this is very important). Yet you said that Ballard was not kid/dog friendly. That part is what is a little confusing, I think.

    No one is arguing that a decision matrix isn’t a principled way of doing something. But they are interested in how you used that tool to come to your decision.

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  64. 67
    The Tim says:

    By masaba @ 66:

    People are trying to ask you why you rated a neighborhood with a large number of registered kitten kickers, pretty poor public schools, and a moderately high crime rate as kid/dog friendly (which you also gave a weighting of 3, showing that you thought this is very important). Yet you said that Ballard was not kid/dog friendly. That part is what is a little confusing, I think.

    You didn’t read the table correctly. It says “kid/dog friendly yard.”

    A certain threshold of safety was one of the underlying assumptions that was a deal-killer. I didn’t describe that part in the post, but I explained it in the comments on Friday.

    I didn’t put things like “crime below X threshold” or “commute less than an hour” on the table because those were total deal-killers and any neighborhood that failed criteria like that didn’t even make the list. It’s why Gig Harbor (commute) and South Everett (crime) and North Everett east of Broadway (also crime) weren’t on the list.

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  65. 68
    Think Man says:

    By Scotsman @ 53:

    RE: Think Man @ 49

    “Statistically speaking, one third of all women are molested or raped as a child. ”

    Link? I’m not buying.

    This took me approximately 10 seconds to look up online…

    “Roughly 33% of girls and 14% of boys are molested before the age of 18, according to the U.S. Justice Department.”

    http://www.childmolestationvictim.com/statistics.html

    Nevertheless, most of the time when I provide stats it does nothing to change someone’s view of reality, anyhow. See my other posts as to why this is.

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  66. 69
    iShortedYourHouse says:

    By The Tim @ 44:You know who they are, so they are easy to avoid.

    Well…it is actually easiest to avoid them by not living near them. This begs the questions though, why would you need to avoid them if, as you say, they are unlikely to re-offend?

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  67. 70
    masaba says:

    RE: The Tim @ 67

    Thanks for the clarification.

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  68. 71

    kitten kicker recidivism is a lot higher than we might think it is, depending on how you slice and dice the population studied.

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/recidsexof.html

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  69. 72
    The Dude says:

    Schlicke, Jillayne Joy Defendant Edmonds Municipal XY0148968 04-30-2010

    Care to splain?

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  70. 73
    Rudy101 says:

    Nobody has to follow any registry laws. They can be laughed at. They can be ridiculed and mostly they can be ignored or fled from in any way possible.

    Why can someone legally ignore a law? Well, in order for a law that restricts groups of people or individuals to be credible it must have certain properties.

    First off: Many of those on the registry are not under a sentence of a court. Therefore, the registry is putting out information to the public on people who have legally completed their obligations.

    Secondly: What is the reason for a notification? Is it to protect the public? If it is to protect the public how can anyone rationally explain a consensual encounter with a girlfriend as a threat to public safety?

    Thirdly: What does public notification accomplish? All of a sudden property values drop; nobody wants to live near them; housing becomes almost impossible; friends and/or family desert the person, and the ability to get employment is greatly diminished.

    Fourthly: Has public notification shown it has any other outcomes, like positive impacts upon public safety? Let’s make you into a desperate outcast, with no job, no friends, and housing and find out the results of that to public safety.

    Fifth: Was the registry passed ex-post facto? Yes, for many. It was allowed because the courts now only need theories of public safety in order to pass banishment laws after banishment laws.

    Sixth: If a person really is a danger, doesn’t the State have procedures? Absolutely they do. They commit them in mental hospitals.

    Seventh: Then why aren’t the people on a registry committed to a mental hospital? Because most do not present a danger to the public that any court would approve of.

    Eighth: If a person is not dangerous, isn’t there any mechanism for him to show such a thing and be removed from the registry? The answer is, NO. The registry is under the complete control of the legislature. They can and do add any restriction they like, without having to show any public safety benefit; but they do have lots to say about bald theories.

    Ninth: Take them to court. Show dangerousness or get away. It is that simple.

    As this article demonstrates and as my 9 points show, your registry has no credibility. It is illegal and unconstitutional and can be fled from in any way possible.

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  71. 74
    Rudy101 says:

    Well, sure, you can show anything if you slice and dice. The idea is that you don’t slice and dice but use recognized statistical methods.RE: Jillayne Schlicke @ 71 -

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  72. 75

    Rudy did you read the report from the link shared?
    What do you think about their methodology?

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  73. 76
    Scotsman says:

    RE: Think Man @ 68

    Give me a break. There’s a huge difference between “molested”, however that may be defined, and the “raped” you stated. Hyperbole, to say the least.

    Plus, the link you gave isn’t to the statistics, but to a law firm that specializes in molestation cases. No conflict of interest there, eh?

    I’m still not buying, given the definition of molestation must be pretty general. Kind of like public urination is a sexual offense? If that’s the case, I’m probably guilty at some point in the past. Just didn’t get caught.

    If you pee in a dark alley and no one sees you, should you go on the list? What about the bears in my back yard? Do they or don’t they?

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  74. 77
    Scotsman says:

    RE: Rudy101 @ 73

    Kind of like “when guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns?

    You’re right- there’s more wrong than right with the whole idea of registry. But far too many continue to think that if only we had enough laws the world would be perfect. The very definition of naiveté.

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  75. 78
    Rudy101 says:

    RE: Jillayne Schlicke @ 75 -I want to make this clear. ANY statistic is meaningless when applied to an individual. Let me say this again, in a different way. ONLY a court can take a person’s individual circumstances into consideration is able to restrict a person. I could care less if the stats say, 1% or 99%, it still does not relieve the State of their obligations under the law to give due process. If a person is not under the supervision of the State no State is allowed to come up with statistics to take away freedoms.

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  76. 79
    Rudy101 says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 77 – The very definition of despotism.

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  77. 80
    David Losh says:

    I’ll read the comments later tonight, but was curious about why there are so many registered offenders near the home you bought. Are there half way houses near by?

    It goes back to the comment Ardell made on Friday, she posted the link, so I’m just wanting to clarify if that’s correct. 50? as opposed to a normal of between 9 to 20, if I recall her comment correctly.

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  78. 81
    ARDELL says:

    RE: David Losh @ 80

    David,

    The link you are referring to, and the one I posted, is # of offenders. It was 66 and reduced to 59. Plug in any address to Homefacts.com for comparison. The crimes are many and varied and there seems to be a way to separate kitten kickers from other criminal offenses. But my comment about school ranking, crime rating (also on that site separated Violent crime from Property Crime) and # of offenders does not limit to “violent love” offenders. All worthy of being on the chart when buying a home or renting a home. What someone makes of them is their business. But to not look at all makes little sense IMO.

    This is the link that was in the other thread:

    http://www.homefacts.com/realestatearea/offenders/Washington/Snohomish-County/Everett/3601%20Wetmore%20Ave.html

    You have to click on every offense to see what it was. But most addresses I put in there come up with 0-5 or for areas I would expect to have more 15-20. So 59 to 66 is a LOT. Maybe the site is wrong. They do post everyone’s picture and address though.

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  79. 82
    whatsmyname says:

    By The Tim @ 54:

    …>San Francisco Chronicle article:

    Research shows that kitten kickers generally have far lower recidivism rates than the general prison population: A U.S. Justice Department study last year found only 5 percent of kitten kickers had re-offended after three years. By comparison, a state Department of Corrections study earlier this year put the recidivism rate for its general inmate population at about 60 percent after three years.

    5% recividism vs 60% recividism? This is a number pair that I would expect a guy like you would question, or at least think very hard about. Is there a pink pony in the penal system? BTW, even 5% of 60 is 3. That said, thanks for sharing your larger thought process.

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  80. 83
    ARDELL says:

    For those who don’t know where the kitten kicker registration started, and its relationship to REAL ESTATE. It was originally, and maybe still, referred to as “Megan’s Law”. Megan Kanka was a 7 year old girl in New Jersey. The criminal was a previous 2 time “offender” of a 5 year old girl and another 7 year old girl. The offender lived across the street and lured 7 year old Megan from in front of her own house by wanting to show her his new puppy. She was raped and murdered.

    I was in real estate at the time, worked in NJ and PA in those years, and had three little daughters. So I remember the tragedy and resulting legislation well, and the added language to real estate contracts at that time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Timmendequas

    For agents saying it is not an issue, it became a real estate issue and in most every real estate or rental contract in the Country. A mandatory real estate disclosure. So this is not “opinion” unrelated to the field of real estate, or optional as to its disclosure.

    Not sure how up to date this is:

    http://www.findlegalforms.com/product/washington-real-estate-contract-for-sale-cash-or-seller-financing/

    Just above “lead based paint hazards” is a note referring to “Required Megan’s Law Notice.”

    Perhaps it should have been called Required kitten kicker Notice, as many don’t seem to know or remember who Megan was.

    Most of the sites in each state are called Megan’s Law sites and have a picture of Megan. The reference became mandatory in real estate contracts and leases around 1994 as I recall.

    http://bit.ly/kRpR73

    I see this recent discussion in a Redfin Forum

    http://forums.redfin.com/t5/Bay-Area/Megan-s-Law/td-p/207270

    But most references note “Megan’s Law” vs “kitten kickers”, and so not knowing who Megan is can be a problem. It may be time to call it the kitten kicker Law so people don’t miss it.

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  81. 84
    David North says:

    If nothing else, this topic illustrates the purpose for markets. Different people value the same thing at the same time and place in different ways based on different needs, biases, motivations, etc. You can call each other ignorant and irrational and illogical and silly and whatever else you wish over this one characteristic of Tim’s new neighborhood. At the end of the day, the market finds a price at which a buyer and seller, each of whom values things differently, both think they’re getting a good enough deal to close a sale.

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  82. 85
    jrc says:

    Not sure about Seattle, but in Cincinnati they arrested people for peeing after Red’s game and yep, they are on the kitten kicker list. And of course they have sweeps of an industrial area, that is close to the major gay bar at 1AM, not a home or child for miles and they too are on the list. I am more worried about relatives or close friends with my kids than someone accross the street. I do get a most likely false sense of security knowing where the violent love affenders are, but honestly, how many people thought their child was safe in the Cathlic Church? Best to just have open and ongoing comunication with your children and suppervise as much as you can. I am more worried about breakins, vandalism….

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  83. 86
    David Losh says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 83

    Meagan’s Law! Thank you!

    I was racking my brain trying to remember the story. I knew the part about him being a repeat offender, but forgot the particulars.

    Which brings me back to my question of why there are so many near Tim’s house. The second part about that is if there is a large concentration of kitten kickers near the property would that need to be disclosed.

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  84. 87
    ARDELL says:

    RE: David Losh @ 86

    David,

    Again…”offenders” does not necessarily equate to “kitten kickers”. There are other types of offenses. You have to click each person for that. Also the numbers I quoted of 0-5 and 15 – 20 are also not ONLY “violent love” offenders. As I recall in the Megan case, there were three kitten kickers in one house across the street from Megan, and they moved in AFTER Megan’s family did. That is why it’s important to check the available information during the course of living in a home, and not only when buying one.

    Yes and No as to “disclosure” In all 50 States (as far as I know) a Notice is required in Real Estate contracts or required attachments to a contract. Once the Seller Disclosure Form became mandatory, it was removed from the real estate contract here, at some point, and moved to the Form 17 Seller Disclosure Form. We are prohibited under mls rules from quoting mls forms in public.

    It is not the seller’s obligation to disclose who and where. It is the buyer’s obligation to find the information, and a notice that the information is available is at the end of the Form 17 just UNDER where the buyer acknowledges receipt and above “Proximity to Farming”. It is not the Broker’s Obligation to provide the specific information…only to include the notice that the information is available through Local Law Enforcement.

    Over the years since 1994 there have been many discussions about the relationship of the required Megan’s Law/kitten kicker Disclosure and Real Estate Contracts and broker obligations. The minimal requirement is usually that it be “of mention”. It is not called “Megan’s Law” on the current WA Seller Disclosure Form. Over the years since 1994, the notices have gotten smaller and smaller.

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  85. 89
    Scotsman says:

    Oh, the irony! Checking Ardell’s Homefacts.com shows big zeros for me on the first 4 or 5 negative items. Total crime index is 36, an A-. Move to the country- get away from city perverts! Heh. It’s probably be because everyone out here has several guns, and many of them practice in their yards. Just hearing a clip of 223’s running off on the other side of the street would cause more than one type of potential criminal to have second thoughts.

    I still don’t care. I taught my kids how to be safe.

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  86. 90
    ARDELL says:

    RE: ivan @ 88

    The place to check is your “local law enforcement agency”. I wouldn’t trust any site to be 100% accurate. Given it is a mandatory real estate notice to all potential buyers of homes, I believe in all 50 states, I think it deserves at least a minor position on anyone’s checklist of what to be aware of when buying a home. It’s not my opinion. It’s the law that you at least be notified of the fact, in writing, that there is a way to check out nearby kitten kickers.

    If it wasn’t important when buying a home, I don’t think there would be a law about it.

    And Scotsman…it is NOT “Ardell’s Homefacts.com”. I have no relationship to the site. Several Real Estate sites include links to Zillow Zestimates, School Ranking Sites, WalkScore.com and other equally potentially inaccurate sites about schools and home values. HomeFacts.com is just another similar type of site that has a lot of information, not all of which is 100% accurate. A handy site though…at least as handy as the Zillow Zestimate.

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  87. 91
    Scotsman says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 90

    “. . . at least as handy as the Zillow Zestimate. ”

    OK, I see why you wouldn’t want to be associated . . . ;-)

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  88. 92
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 91

    Hey, some of my best friends used to work at Zillow. :)

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  89. 93
    Sam Ferris says:

    I’m a registered kitten kicker in California (consentual violent love with 15 and 17 year old in 1984 see my web site /samdeathwalker.com/ for details). Who is going to be stupid enough to be registered in an area and commit a crime in that same area? You are assuming that kitten kickers are dumb as rocks or something, sure some will be stupid and others will have IQ’s way higher then yours. Sure there is no problem with notification but you need to realize that its basically completely useless. There are 700,000 registered kitten kickers in the United States, of course you will live near some.
    Only 1 out of 20 (if that) new violent love crimes are committed by a registered kitten kicker. 19 out of 20 are committed by others. The stats are on my site. In other words if all kitten kickers were put to death violent love crimes would be reduced by 5 percent total.
    If as a parent you put 100 percent of your protective time into 5 percent of the threat and ignore the other 95 percent of the threat to your kids then you are just plain stupid. My question to you “concerned parents” is what are you doing to protect your children from the 95 percent probability that if they are a victim of a violent love crime then they will be victims of someone who is not a registered kitten kicker?
    The best protection would be to increase police officers in areas where children congregate, increase video surveillance of the general public and to provide safe haven laws where if victims are returned quickly and alive and unharmed (besides the violent love crime itself) there would be a max penalty of 5 years so that criminals have an incentive not to murder the witness because if the sentence for the violent love crime is the same as that for murder there is no down side to murdering the witness/victim.

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  90. 94

    By ivan @ 88:

    According to some of the public sites that map the location of kitten kickers, the nearest kitten kicker to me is …. in my house! Run, Dear! Grab the cat!

    Actually, I’ve known for some time that a kitten kicker is mis-reported as living here.

    I hate to have to put two and two together for you, but the kitten kicker is your cat! :-D

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  91. 95
    The Tim says:

    By ARDELL @ 81:

    The link you are referring to, and the one I posted, is # of offenders. It was 66 and reduced to 59.

    http://www.homefacts.com/realestatearea/offenders/Washington/Snohomish-County/Everett/3601%20Wetmore%20Ave.html

    You have to click on every offense to see what it was.

    By ARDELL @ 87:

    Again…”offenders” does not necessarily equate to “kitten kickers”. There are other types of offenses.

    Apparently you didn’t actually click through to them all. I did, and yes, they are all registered violent love offenders. Some of them also have been convicted of other crimes in addition to their violent love crimes, but every single one of the 59 people on that list is a registered kitten kicker. That’s the only way to get on the list. As I mentioned in the post, that is the only crime where offenders are forced to register their address for life.

    Also, over 64% (38 of 59) of the people on that list are over 3/4 of a mile from my house. Who cares what kind of people live three quarters of a mile away? How often do you walk more than about a half a mile from your house? I’d bet almost never. Three quarters of a mile may as well be ten miles for all I care.

    Oh by the way, out of curiosity I put in a random Capitol Hill address, and HomeFacts told me that there are 91 offenders within a 1 mile radius: http://www.homefacts.com/realestatearea/offenders/Washington/King-County/Seattle/1800-Boylston-Ave.html

    Incidentally, the median SFH sale price in Capitol Hill in May was nearly four times what it was in my neighborhood (Port Gardner). Obviously there are plenty of people with plenty of money that agree with me on the how important nearby kitten kickers should be in one’s home search.

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  92. 96
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 93

    Castration plain and simple: http://samdeathwalker.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=63&d=1266981803&cmps=1

    Spoken like a TRUE Ped: The best protection would be to increase police officers in areas where children congregate..

    So you were caught twice? How many times did you offend? 10?

    I’m very happy we have a Registry and I’m VERY happy you live in Cal!

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  93. 97
    Scotsman says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 93

    Interesting site you’ve got there. I learn something every day. Heh.

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  94. 98
    Lake Hills Renter says:

    Ding! The kneejerk escalation has started — we have castration now. Just a matter of time before killing them is the answer.

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  95. 99
    ray pepper says:

    you know Tim, the more I read on this blog the more it displays the vermin we are dealing with :

    ” there would be a max penalty of 5 years so that criminals have an incentive not to murder the witness because if the sentence for the violent love crime is the same as that for murder there is no down side to murdering the witness/victim. ”

    An offender knowing he will get 5 years will KILL his prey just the same as knowing he will get longer. This is the thought process of someone still walking our streets???? Its very apparent he thinks his risk/rewards on each and every encounter…

    There is NEVER a cure except death and castration. In the absence of that its distancing yourself to the best of your ability.

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  96. 100

    By jrc @ 85:

    Not sure about Seattle, but in Cincinnati they arrested people for peeing after Red’s game and yep, they are on the kitten kicker list. .

    Lot’s of possible responses to that one:

    1. I pretty sure we have any special laws in Seattle that go into effect at the end of Red’s games.

    2. I’m glad we don’t have that type of law in Seattle. Half the time I don’t even know when the Mariners are playing!

    3. Is it okay to pee during the second game of a double-header?

    4. Cincinnati, the only city where walk-off home runs mid-stream are painful.

    5. Cincinnati, the only city where last call refers to the bathrooms.

    6. But your honor, I didn’t know! I own a Tivo!

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  97. 101
    calvis says:

    By violent love-offender-bogeyman/comment-page-1/#comment-135191' >Sam Ferris @ 93

    Just remember Sam you are someone’s neighbor.

    The picture that caught my eye:

    http://samdeathwalker.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=79&d=1282338300&cmps=1

    Notice the stroller in the background. Nice behavior at an event which has kids.

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  98. 102
    Scotsman says:

    RE: violent love-offender-bogeyman/comment-page-1/#comment-135194' >The Tim @ 95

    “I put in a random Capitol Hill address, and HomeFacts told me that there are 91 offenders within a 1 mile radius . . . Incidentally, the median SFH sale price in Capitol Hill in May was nearly four times what it was in my neighborhood.”

    91? And four times the cost? Cripes!

    The Tim . . . . . . . . 1
    The Ardell . . . . . . . 0

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  99. 103
    Jonness says:

    RE: violent love-offender-bogeyman/comment-page-1/#comment-135092' >ray pepper @ 16 – Out of curiosity, what is the rate of violent love crimes against victims unknown to the assailant? How does this compare to extremely unlikely events such as getting hit by a car while crossing the street?

    I see a lot of emotion in this thread, and it’s difficult to get a good read on how likely it is this would occur to your child compared to other possibilities such as allowing your brother to watch your kids while you and the wife go away for the weekend.

    Sorry if that’s posted somewhere in this thread already. I’m a lazy reader tonight.

    I understand the actual incidence of shark bites is extremely low. However, it’s probably normal to have irrational fears that prevent one from swimming in the ocean in an area that’s never had a shark attack.

    It probably comes down to individual fear thresholds and personal preferences. Personally, I wouldn’t be exactly thrilled about living next door to a (violent) rapo. But living two miles away from a guy who had violent love with his 14-year old girlfriend when he was 18 wouldn’t bother me.

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  100. 104
    ARDELL says:

    RE: The Tim @ 95

    “How often do you walk more than about a half a mile from your house? I’d bet almost never.”

    Maybe I’m the exception, as I do it all the time. When I lived in Kirkland I used to walk a mile up to the Columbia Health Club at 116th and Market, work out and walk home the mile again. I also walked to Downtown and the Library in the other direction.

    I’ve walked a mile with my little Granddaughter many times. She’s 6 and we’ve been doing it since she was 4. A mile isn’t that far to walk. Most people walk at least 3 to 5 miles on a treadmill. Outside walking is better, when the weather is nice.

    From where I am now, I walk a mile to Green Lake, around the lake and back. 5 miles total. Is that unusual when you live within a mile of something worth walking to? I just turned 57. I would think younger people walk more than I do. Lots of people walk the 3 miles around Green Lake, so my guess would be a lot of people walk a mile.

    Lots of my clients walk a mile with me through neighborhoods when we are checking them out. I almost always walk a mile and check out the area around any house I sell, whether I represent the buyer or the seller. I even time the walk to various places for them, or we walk together.

    Seattle people are always “going hiking”, I would think most of them take a mile walk.

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  101. 105
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Jonness @ 103

    Jonness, I do not have stats for you. Thats for Tim to hand out.

    As for alot of emotion I simply have NO TOLERANCE for these sub species. I did my best to keep my children away and I’m proud to say with 3 kids we have had ZERO problems. Furthermore, in Coaching hundreds of youth (with assistants) never an incident.

    Tim, made charts indicating his priorities. I did the same many years ago. I also despise busy streets, single wides, broken down cars, graffitti, and barking dogs. However, there will ALWAYS be a FEW things at the top of my LIST, heavily weighted, that I will ALWAYS advise my clients of.

    Over protective????????? Sure!! But, there is truly no other way to be in my book.

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  102. 106
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Jonness @ 3

    You don’t have to guess. It gives the age of the person and the date of the offense. Looking at one now. He’s 43 and the date of the offense was in 2008. It doesn’t give the age of the victim other than “child molestation in the 2nd degree”. Not sure what the difference is between 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree.

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  103. 107
    calvis says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 102

    My random Capital Hill address came up with 56 offenders. I think the density of apartment complexes will increase the number of offenders as well.

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  104. 108
    ARDELL says:

    RE: calvis @ 107

    I don’t think it’s about condos generally. I put in Downtown Kirland where there are a lot of condos and came up with 2. An address over by Microsoft where there are a lot of condos and came up with 0. Northgate Mall where there are a lot of condos and came up with 21.

    Anyway…it’s good to check, don’t you think? Is there any reason not to?

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  105. 109
    BillE says:

    By EastBellevueEtherBinge @ 19:

    Public urination could be a gateway offense…hmm…

    In a previous topic the issue of owning large chunks of property came up. This reminds me of another reason to live in a rural area and own acres of land. Being able to whizz in your yard with no worries is a total luxury. Seriously. When doing stuff outside like cutting firewood or clearing brush, or even washing the car, there’s no greater convenience.

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  106. 110
    BillE says:

    By Betsy @ 40:

    p.s. for all of the ladies out there: don�t be afraid to hit if someone�s coming after you. Use the heel of your hand instead of a fist and go for the neck. Making a brain stem a bit wobbly will give you time to run away

    Better yet, strike with whatever object you have within reach. If you are attacked and have a set of keys, then those keys need to be planted in dude’s eye. A cell phone or a camera across the bridge of someone’s nose can earn you precious seconds. And physical damage to the no-no’s will stop any man in his tracks. This is the stuff they teach in self defense training.

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  107. 111
    Overinvested says:

    If you look at any map of crime statistics, there is a direct correlation between the number of kitten kickers present in a given area and the level of crime in general (factoring in population density). While I’m not worried about registered kitten kickers per se, the number of kitten kickers is a good barometer of criminal activity in an area. In general, school ratings follow suit.

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  108. 112
    BillE says:

    By Sam Ferris @ 93:

    I’m a registered kitten kicker in California

    Thanks for the link to your site, where you claim sexual attraction to youth is normal and that the age of consent is too high. Some might say your pictures scream rapo.
    Your idea for a max 5 year sentence points to you having no grasp of reality.
    Have a nice day, and may the commissary has everything you need during your next prison bid.

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  109. 113
    MichaelB says:

    Wow! Tim, How are you ever going to top this one? This may actually be the day that your blog “jumped the shark”. You’re not right next door to a nuclear reactor are you?

    Like I said before Tim – It is apparent you made a decision to purchase this home for various emotional reasons – nice wood trim, looks like grandpa’s home, etc… and are now trying to justify the purchase in hindsight using charts graphs, etc…. That’s O.K., we all tend to justify decisions after the fact. But you made the decision to buy a house because you are planning to adopt a child. Therefore, it is normal for most people to question why in the world you would not give more weight to schools, crime and other topics that most parents care about deeply. (Plus, you wanted plenty of parking for parties – birthday parties I assume…) As all parents know – you cannot possibly know what it’s like to be a parent until you are one -it will change your life – and your priorities!

    If these topics such as the quality of public schools, crime, etc are important enough for a blog, they’re important enough to put on your chart and look into prior to making the biggest purchase decision of your life! Saying public schools are a joke and kitten kicker registries / crime statistics don’t matter. Well, that’s pure and simple denial.

    I though the objective of not buying during a bubble was to get the best deal you can on a good investment? Based on your recent posts, it’s not actually about making a good investment is it, it’s about fuzzy “priorities” …. You spent over $200k and could have bought in areas with a shorter commute, in a better school district and with fewer criminals – Oh, that’s right – not your prorities… Give me a break! This bubble is only halfway burst…30% more to go. An average house in Everett should cost $150k as the average wage is probably $50k, and you have an average house.

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  110. 114
    dvdivx says:

    For one thing it helps identify who’s who among local criminals. I actually saw one of the level 3 offenders hiding near the trash dumpers of our condo building. A building that he doesn’t live in but lived about 20 blocks from. So no, it’s not useless information. That said I don’t bother checking very often and the only thing that would concern me on a move would be houses that are boarding homes for level 3s.

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  111. 115
    Peter Witting says:

    RE: calvis @ 1 – What’s that hideous bruise on her shoulder?

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  112. 116
    Pegasus says:

    By dvdivx @ 113:

    For one thing it helps identify who’s who among local criminals. I actually saw one of the level 3 offenders hiding near the trash dumpers of our condo building. A building that he doesn’t live in but lived about 20 blocks from. So no, it’s not useless information. That said I don’t bother checking very often and the only thing that would concern me on a move would be houses that are boarding homes for level 3s.

    There appears to be a boarding home close to Tim about two blocks away. Would that concern you? Also there was a sexual crime reported about a block away in the past two months.

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  113. 117

    I used Ardell’s link for my address, and it only came up with one hit. Does that mean my neighborhood is relatively safe? I doubt it. For one think I have two schools within a mile, and those are probably predator magnets.

    I really don’t buy into the theory that these guys only hit close to home, and think that Megan’s Law legislation is likely just knee-jerk feel good legislation. Clearly the police need to know where these people live, so registration is important, but except in extreme situations I don’t see the purpose of this type of public notification. Rather obviously if you’re getting 96 hits on a search it becomes a case of information overload. If the threshold is so low (e.g. public urination), then you could easily have a situation where my one hit is worse than the 96, and you have no way of easily knowing.

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  114. 118
    The Tim says:

    By MichaelB @ 113:

    Like I said before Tim – It is apparent you made a decision to purchase this home for various emotional reasons – nice wood trim, looks like grandpa’s home, etc… and are now trying to justify the purchase in hindsight using charts graphs, etc….

    You’re either being intentionally obtuse or you have essentially nonexistent reading comprehension skills. As I made exceedingly clear in Friday’s post, we narrowed down our list of neighborhoods using a specific set of criteria, then we started looking at houses in those neighborhoods. The qualities of this specific home have absolutely nothing to do with our choice to focus our search on North Everett west of Broadway.

    That’s O.K., we all tend to justify decisions after the fact.

    Too bad for your rant the reasoning I’m describing in these posts is the process I went through before deciding what neighborhoods to look in.

    But you made the decision to buy a house because you are planning to adopt a child. Therefore, it is normal for most people to question why in the world you would not give more weight to schools, crime and other topics that most parents care about deeply.

    I’ve already explained why schools weren’t a major factor, and crime was a factor, it was one of the deal-killer prerequisites that a neighborhood had to be below a certain level to even make the list in the first place.

    You keep talking about how my priorities are different from most people’s. Gee, you mean just like how my priorities were different in 2006 when most people were buying whatever shack they could with whatever destructive financing the bank threw at them?

    (Plus, you wanted plenty of parking for parties – birthday parties I assume…) As all parents know – you cannot possibly know what it’s like to be a parent until you are one -it will change your life – and your priorities!

    Ah yes, the old “you’re not a parent, so you can’t possibly understand” argument. Truly a paragon of reasoned debate. But yes, obviously I am the one being emotional here.

    I though the objective of not buying during a bubble was to get the best deal you can on a good investment? Based on your recent posts, it’s not actually about making a good investment is it, it’s about fuzzy “priorities”

    I’ve said plenty of times on these pages that buying a home is not an investment. You buy a he because you want a place to live, not because you’re going to make money off of it.

    You spent over $200k and could have bought in areas with a shorter commute, in a better school district and with fewer criminals – Oh, that’s right – not your prorities… Give me a break!

    If you choose to ignore what I’m saying and ascribe all sorts of imaginary motives to my purchase, that’s your prerogative.

    You’re obviously impervious to logic or reasoning on this particular subject, so this is the last time I’m going to bother responding to you on the matter. Believe whatever you want to believe.

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  115. 119
    David Losh says:

    RE: The Tim @ 95

    In my opinion you were doing fine with your reasoning until this comment. 1800 Boylston isn’t just a random Capitol Hill address. It’s the address of the most apartments closest to down town. kitten kickers, I would guess, at some point, need to be close to the court house and treatment facilities such as Harborview, and Seattle Mental Health(?).

    Your post associates kitten kickers with the bogey man which is a mythical person. It seems dismissive of what some people may consider important.

    I happen to agree with you, but I’m an urban kind of guy. Once I had children I became more protective. There again I talk with my kids openly about strangers, weird people, feeling comfortable, and if you aren’t comfortable walk away, run, scream fire, and the like.

    Your next post on the home buying process should be interesting.

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  116. 120
    D. in Ballard says:

    By ARDELL @ 4:

    RE: The Tim @ 95

    “How often do you walk more than about a half a mile from your house? Iâ��d bet almost never.”

    Maybe I’m the exception, as I do it all the time.

    Ditto. Walkability was my number one criteria in my home search.

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  117. 121
    MacroInvestor says:

    I thought “location” was a critical factor in home valuation. So much so, that the experts usually list it 3 times — as in location, location, location. Perception or reality doesn’t matter. If your location scores badly for crime rate (or something as emotional as violent love crimes), your home will not keep it’s value or be likely to increase.

    Personally, I believe you are much more secure if you are friends with a lot of like-minded neighbors who watch each other’s back… i.e. having an informal neighborhood watch. The police don’t stop crimes. They may be a deterrent, but mostly they show up to take a report. The “real” security is the watchful friend who sees something suspicious and isn’t afraid to get involved — because they know you. So it’s extremely important not to isolate yourself, or be living with people you consider scum bags. Good ole fashioned COMMUNITY.

    When ever I go on vacation, I let my neighbors know it. I joke with them that if they see a moving van cleaning out the place, it’s not real. There are a lot of us looking out for the other guy/gal. And many are known to have guns ;)

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  118. 122
    cybopob says:

    Interesting topic, a lot of new things learned.

    ray pepper is one of those trigger happy nuts who’d shoot people with “public labels” on sight. Disregarding what that label is about, as long as goverment labeled “bad” people – thats all we concern about! People who caught peeing at the game must be castrated, yes!

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  119. 123

    Would this type of search help keep you from moving in too close to a C-list actor from Lost? ;-)

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  120. 124
    ray pepper says:

    RE: cybopob @ 122

    “ray pepper is one of those trigger happy nuts who’d shoot people with “public labels” on sight. ”

    interesting perspective on my comments. As a 91C in the Army for 8 years and working in so many hospitals I have to tell you I joke that I’m a healer and a lover. I have always hated guns/knives etc. When going through Basic I was bored to death with training on the M16. I kept thinking why do I (as a nurse) need to fire this thing. I know I know ..Soldier first then Nurse second. I scored the lowest Marksman as we moved on from that “skill.” Furthermore, I have never fired a weapon since basic.

    I keep no weapons in the house and most of my perceived weapons (sports equipment) are always in the cars..However, as I mentioned, I have no tolerance. I must limit my exposure to these vermin to the best of my ability and to protect my family. I do not know my reaction if I witnessed an event with my family or children I supervise in sports.

    I could very well see myself with a baseball bat going to town and this is NOT an action I hope ever presents itself. I choose to use all data present to provide many forms of safety for my family above all else.

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  121. 125
    Scotsman says:

    RE: ray pepper @ 124

    ” I have to tell you I joke that I’m a healer and a lover. I have always hated guns/knives etc. ”

    Don’t “bogart” that joint, bro. ;-) (sorry, just struck me as funny coming from you)

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  122. 126
    Nick Sincere says:

    Worrying about registered kitten kickers is silly.

    As this sentence begins your summary paragraph, it would be considered a restatement of your thesis and as such to be what the reader would come away with as the essential point of your article. Of course, in context there is all manner of subtle reasoning to qualify this statement, but you must know that this one line stands out in the post both for it’s location as the introduction to your summary, as well as the choice of words. I come away from this thinking Tim considers worrying about kitten kickers to be silly. Although I have read the whole post and understand the reasoning, as time passes that’s the line that stands out, not least of all because of the emotional reaction to it as it seems shockingly cavalier. I wonder what an adoption agency would think if they came across this post when looking into this blog while investigating the suitability of Tim and his wife for adoption, and whether that line in particular would stand out. Also, I wonder whether an adoption agency would reject a potential adoptive parent because their home was too close to a certain threshold of offenders, perhaps a group home or something.

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  123. 127
    tomtom says:

    I’m always skeptical of the comments with “I’m going to do everything possible … blah, blah, blah …” If you were going to do everything possible to keep your kids away from sexual predators, you would live in a boat out in the middle of the ocean. No exception.

    I’m guessing that in reality you compromised your position.

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  124. 128
    The Tim says:

    RE: Nick Sincere @ 126 – Fortunately in my experience adoption agencies are much more logical and reasonable than most parents, and would realize that worrying about registered kitten kickers is silly. It’s irrational to focus your attention on a known, quantified danger that is easy to address (don’t spend time with the creeps on the registry).

    It’s the unknown, unquantified dangers that you should be worried about.

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  125. 129
    HappyRenter says:

    RE: Nick Sincere @ 126
    I think it shows that Tim is a responsible parent who thinks about what matters and what does not. Also note that the sentence says “registered kitten kickers”, not any kitten kicker.

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  126. 130
    The Tim says:

    By HappyRenter @ 129:

    Also note that the sentence says “registered kitten kickers”, not any kitten kicker.

    Ding! That’s the key factor.

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  127. 131
    LocalYokel says:

    “It’s better to know what you’re getting into than to be ignorant, but if you’re ruling out a neighborhood just because of registered kitten kickers, you’re limiting yourself unnecessarily, and possibly missing out on a great home for no good reason.”

    Sticks and bricks or little more peace of mind? I rather pay more for a little more peace of mind. With that said….

    There are 300+ kitten kickers in the Seattle west precinct area. Most of them are no known address and most are homeless, living in “the Jungle”, streets, and shelters.
    There is a perp/photo album with their pictures, so public safety folks (not just police, but also community service folks) can make “contact” when they see them. There are
    also 400+ felons in the same area, not including the kitten kickers. Good luck trying to “register” these folks and put them on a nice map, so you feel safe. Maybe, a walled compound with razor wire and broken bottles and armed guards with machine guns will do the trick.

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  128. 132
    HappyRenter says:

    By MacroInvestor @ 21:

    There are a lot of us looking out for the other guy/gal. And many are known to have guns ;)

    Knowing that your neighbors have guns at home, does it make you feel more safe or less safe? I have heard things like: “I have a loaded revolver at home … but I don’t know how to use it”. ;)

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  129. 134

    By Matt the Engineer @ 133:

    5. Rating registered offenders within 1 mile dramatically skews toward sprawl. Gather enough people within a 1 mile radius and of course there will be some bad apples – but the odds that you’ll interact with these people goes way down. A much more useful number would be the % of people that are offenders.

    I would agree with the first point. Part of the reason that my address only shows 1 is that a lot of what’s around me is woods.

    Not sure I agree with the second point, but in any case it’s probably impossible to do because they don’t know the number of people at each address. They could maybe do the percent of addresses with at least one kitten kicker.

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  130. 135
    ARDELL says:

    RE: David Losh @ 19

    I threw in a random Capitol Hill address and came up with 6 offenders and a B- violent Crime Score. I think it is worthwhile to click over from crime score on Homefacts.com to the separation of Violent Crime vs Property Crime.

    From a real estate perspective, to what extent does an agent get involved in assisting with area choice? For someone coming in from out of State, I would say a lot. For someone saying I want to buy a house in the same neighborhood where my parents live and where I grew up and went to school…not so much. Even when a client comes to me knowing exactly where they “want” to live, if they have only lived in this area or in this Country for a short time, we do address the pros and cons of that choice.

    To me the issue isn’t about Tim and Tim’s choice, though I have a curiosity question as to whether owning a home vs renting a home makes a difference in adoption. I would have leaned to continuing to rent, given the overall considerations. Was continuing to rent not an option or a perceived negative in the adoption process? Again, that is just my curiosity.

    From a real estate perspective, given many people buying homes read this blog, I think Tim should at least concede that all three: School Ranking – Crime Stats and Offender Information BE on the “considerations” chart. What a buyer chooses to do with that information is personal. But to leave it off the chart as to other people reading the blog for advice, I think conceding that yes it should be on the chart, is the answer most people are looking for vs it being “silly” to care about such things.

    Given the anguish I’ve seen at a home inspection over a minor leak or wood rot issue, I would think the offender information is at least as important as a leak under the kitchen sink as to what to worry about when buying a home.

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  131. 136
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Matt the Engineer @ 133

    Totally agree, which is why when I was asked to link to or highlight the site some time ago, I did not. But having the exact names, pictures of and addresses of the offenders is something you can print out to take to your local law enforcement agency to get the actual information. To that end, I think the crime and offender info is useful. Perhaps there is a better and best site for that info. Clearly a home buyer should use them all the same as they would use 5 ways to approach “value” in addition to a Zillow Zestimate.

    Stopping at # of, if it is very high or very low, is likely what many people would do. Going the step further and not relying on the info available on the internet to know if the offender is the guy next door you are inviting to dinner, or 5 of them to the next barbecue…I think is important. Getting the info from the local law enforcement agency is best.

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  132. 137
    LA Relo says:

    So all of you who are comfortable living next door to a registered kitten kicker, or choose not to bother checking whether such a person may in fact be next door, let me ask you this:

    Would you buy a house next door to a convicted murderer?

    /shields self from stones

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  133. 138
    The Tim says:

    RE: LA Relo @ 137 – The entire point is that you know who the kitten kicker is because he’s registered. That takes the vast majority of the risk/danger out of the equation.

    If a recently-released murderer moved in next door you would never even know it. That’s a lot more scary than the known kitten kicker who you can easily just avoid spending any time with because you know what a creep he is.

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  134. 139
    Space Alien Magician says:

    By Jillayne Schlicke @ 51:

    Kary and other SB readers, if you really want to understand why there are so many pedophiles within the Catholic priest system, I highly recommend a documentary film called “Deliver us from Evil.” The filmmaker came to SIFF cinema a few years ago and presented her film, which was nominated for an Oscar award that year. Fantastic film and you will have a complete understanding of what’s going on in the Catho-holic system.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814075/

    A little more research on your part and you might learn that one of the leading NGOs working with the United Nations is Lucis Trust, which is a well-funded pro-Luciferian, anti-Christian organization. Depending on the source, Lucifer is one of the four princes of Hell.

    Why is the UN working with such a group? The UN’s two financial arms are the IMF and World Bank, which are privately owned. In addition, the UN’s Agenda 21 public documents discuss gradually replacing all world religions with a single, government-friendly, Earth-worshipping, Pagan “Gaya” religion.

    In order for this to happen, anti-Christian and anti-Islam sentiment needs to take the masses by storm (refer to your post, above). The media is most certainly onboard.

    In any case… food for thought.

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  135. 140
    EastBellevueEtherBinge says:

    RE: toad37 @ 20: I actually used to own a condo in a building where one of the residents regularly urinated in the elevator. Disgusting.

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  136. 141
    mukoh says:

    Interesting take on Tim’s situation and choice, from himself and others. Never looked at kitten kicker registry when picking our house. Had to go to police station back then to get crime stats for the neighborhood, which turned up 0, and one car prowl. Checking Ardells and Tim’s links today showed 0 kitten kickers, and 1 VR (Vehicle recovery) 2 miles away.

    Tim’s area has a lot of homes that are of great character, I almost bought one in there just for investment because of the changing zoning in early 2000’s. However the child molester index is not the only issue considering the schools are horrid. The street walkers on Rucker, Colby and watching them get busted is real entertainment. :)

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  137. 142
    Lurker says:

    By Space Alien Magician @ 139:

    By Jillayne Schlicke @ 51:
    Kary and other SB readers, if you really want to understand why there are so many pedophiles within the Catholic priest system, I highly recommend a documentary film called “Deliver us from Evil.” The filmmaker came to SIFF cinema a few years ago and presented her film, which was nominated for an Oscar award that year. Fantastic film and you will have a complete understanding of what’s going on in the Catho-holic system.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0814075/

    A little more research on your part and you might learn that one of the leading NGOs working with the United Nations is Lucis Trust, which is a well-funded pro-Luciferian, anti-Christian organization. Depending on the source, Lucifer is one of the four princes of Hell.

    Why is the UN working with such a group? The UN’s two financial arms are the IMF and World Bank, which are privately owned. In addition, the UN’s Agenda 21 public documents discuss gradually replacing all world religions with a single, government-friendly, Earth-worshipping, Pagan “Gaya” religion.

    In order for this to happen, anti-Christian and anti-Islam sentiment needs to take the masses by storm (refer to your post, above). The media is most certainly onboard.

    In any case… food for thought.

    This topic has certainly vocalized some of your more interesting Bubble readers, The Tim. Who knew your influence was so far and deep reaching.

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  138. 143
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Lurker @ 142

    Though I am Christian, Catholic, Jewish…all of the above, I have some Pagan friends and they can be really cool people. :)

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  139. 144
    Rudy101 says:

    RE: The Tim @ 138 – You people are all scary, because you are a bunch of liars. Many people on this board are violent drunks. Many people on this board beat women. Many people on this board would steal whatever they can from who ever they can. Many people on this board are drug addicts. Many people on this board have and do physically abuse children. Many people on this board have anger problems. Many people on this board cannot forgive anyone for anything. Many people on this board will do everything they can to minimize their own conduct and point to others so as they look good. Many people on this board are envious, jealous, vain. Everyone on this board God loves.

    Be careful who you label creeps. The label machine could be coming for you.

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  140. 145
    patient says:

    One home has 50 rattle snakes in a neighborhood rock garden. This is well known as is that this species is protected and does not often bite but when they do it’s alarming. Another hood has only 1 of these snakes in a known location. Both hoods has plenty of harmless spiders. Now Tim says that he is more concerned that one of the spiders is a black widow than about the snakes. Fine but why would you choose the hood with the 50 snakes when you have a choice? It’s not that one risk cancels out the other, they accumulate.

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  141. 146
    masaba says:

    By mukoh @ 141:

    Tim’s area has a lot of homes that are of great character, I almost bought one in there just for investment because of the changing zoning in early 2000’s. However the child molester index is not the only issue considering the schools are horrid. The street walkers on Rucker, Colby and watching them get busted is real entertainment. :)

    This was kind of what I was wondering. It just seems like common sense that a neighborhood with awful schools and a large number of kitten kickers would have other issues as well. As Tim keeps saying, it’s the unknowns that you should probably be a little more worried about.

    There seem to be people arguing two different things in this blog. The first is whether or not you should totally stigmatize and get uptight about registered kitten kickers. The second is whether or not the fact that a large number of kitten kickers should influence your decision on whether or not to buy a certain home.

    To the first I say, who cares, make up your decision for yourself. I don’t really think that is what a blog called Seattle Bubble is about anyway.

    To the second, I would say that the number of kitten kickers in a neighborhood probably does influence the overall character of the neighborhood. It may not be a bad thing, but it definitely isn’t a good thing. I would immediately wonder why a certain neighborhood attracts such a large percentage of criminals, and wonder about how many similar people there are in that neighborhood that I just don’t know about yet. It’s kind of like driving into a neighborhood and suddenly noticing that the windows on all of the convenience stores have bars on them.

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  142. 147
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Rudy101 @ 144 – WOW! kitten kickers label themselves through their own actions as do drunks and others that you mention as residing here. I think you might be exaggerating as to the amount of deviants that post here but knock yourself out pointing them out to us. Time for me to have another martooni and it is only 3:00 pm.

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  143. 148
    Rudy101 says:

    By masaba @ 46:

    By mukoh @ 141:
    I would immediately wonder why a certain neighborhood attracts such a large percentage of criminals, and wonder about how many similar people there are in that neighborhood that I just don’t know about yet. It’s kind of like driving into a neighborhood and suddenly noticing that the windows on all of the convenience stores have bars on them.

    Think about this. If you go into the ghetto, almost ALL the black males have criminal records. There is no attraction, that is where they are from…. Poverty, desperation, and criminality go hand in hand.

    The U.S. has criminalized the black male. When you can’t enslave and can’t banish because of color, you pauperize and criminalize.

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  144. 149
    Rudy101 says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 47 – Well I did forget ONE deviancy and that is that government, when acting against its citizens don’t have to take into consideration anyone’s rights to exist within the community. This deviancy is called, despotism and runs rampant throughout history.

    Oh and there are people who love bare feet that post here, and get off watching women smoke post here, and like wearing women’s clothes post here and like playing in their own feces post here and like to be whipped and beaten, they post here too. Imagine, everything that it takes to be human THOSE people post here… And there are even people who do even MORE horrible things like molest children and rape who post here. (over 95% of all sexual crimes are committed by people not on the registry).

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  145. 150
    whatsmyname says:

    Is my memory off, or does this kind of look like a photo of the Tim we once saw?
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/investigation-finds-man-wrongfully-imprisoned-for,20847/

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  146. 151
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Rudy101 @ 149 – Please identify each deviant that you know that posts here and what their labels are. Start with Kary first. While I am waiting for your list of pervs I am going to have violent love with myself…again.

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  147. 152

    RE: Pegasus @ 151 – Isn’t being a real estate agent and an attorney enough? ;-)

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  148. 153
    Rudy101 says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 51 – LOL

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  149. 154
    Lurker says:

    By Pegasus @ 151:

    RE: Rudy101 @ 149 – Please identify each deviant that you know that posts here and what their labels are. Start with Kary first. While I am waiting for your list of pervs I am going to have violent love with myself…again.

    Pegasus, you are so promiscuous after your second martooni, I swear.

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  150. 155
    mukoh says:

    RE: masaba @ 146 – Exactly. You can stigmatize and make generalizations for example my friend touts his home in Evergreen in Mill Creek as being in a community of no crime. And truly there isn’t any incidents within 1 mile radius. Thats not to say that knuckleheads from down the street in Everett won’t go to a more prestigious neighborhood to commit mayhem. However choosing to live in the middle of an area known for crime is other as well.

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  151. 156
    David Losh says:

    OK, It’s interesting that you didn’t point this out, and it’s one of the features I like about how you operate your site.

    You’re within six blocks of Snohomish County Corrections, which probably means the court house is somewhere near there also. Your house is in an urban area. It looks to be down town Everett.

    Well, that makes more sense than a random address. I’m also going to guess you have a high police presence there also.

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  152. 157
    Pegasus says:

    By Lurker @ 154:

    By Pegasus @ 151:
    RE: Rudy101 @ 149 – Please identify each deviant that you know that posts here and what their labels are. Start with Kary first. While I am waiting for your list of pervs I am going to have violent love with myself…again.

    Pegasus, you are so promiscuous after your second martooni, I swear.

    After two martoonis I am pretty easy. I feel so cheap….

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  153. 158
    mukoh says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 157 – If it maroonies? or martooniess?

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  154. 159

    By mukoh @ 155:

    Thats not to say that knuckleheads from down the street in Everett won’t go to a more prestigious neighborhood to commit mayhem.

    I used to say Skyway was low crime because people from nearby worse neighborhoods would go to nearby better neighborhoods.

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  155. 160
    maxrommel says:

    Poor Tim,
    You silly liberal. violent love criminals love people like you. They are predators Tim! My guess is that you don’t have kids. Or a brain. I mentioned that your Everett neighborhood was “dismal.” My great grand-mother (Amy Keay) lived at 3201 Norton (Everett) in 1906). This was a fine neighborhood 100+yrears ago!! But things change Tim. And kitten kicker neighbors suck. Idiot. Regards, Max

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  156. 161

    By maxrommel @ 60:

    My guess is that you don’t have kids. Or a brain.

    Rather ironic that someone who apparently cannot read tries to claim someone else doesn’t have a brain.

    Nice lack of a counter-argument to the positions made here too. Again, rather ironic that you claim someone else lacks a brain.

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  157. 162
    maxrommel says:

    Why are you all smug, Kary?? Can’t handle the truth? violent love predators are a huge problem and Timmy is talking about them as if they are jay walkers! I’m not going to give child molesters a free pass. My family has been in Everett since 1889 and I know their history quite well. None of them were democrats and none of them coddled child molesters. These people are sick and their location needs to be known.

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  158. 163

    By maxrommel @ 162:

    Why are you all smug, Kary?? Can’t handle the truth? violent love predators are a huge problem and Timmy is talking about them as if they are jay walkers! I’m not going to give child molesters a free pass. My family has been in Everett since 1889 and I know their history quite well. None of them were democrats and none of them coddled child molesters. These people are sick and their location needs to be known.

    I’m not sure what being a Democrat or being a liberal has anything to do with this.
    If you’ve read his posts or met him or talked to him, you would know that Tim is neither a Democrat nor a liberal. I’m a liberal. And I also think that people convicted of predatory violent love crimes should be shown no mercy, and repeat kitten kickers should probably never get out of jail. I guess if someone disagrees with you they must hold opposite political beliefs to your own?

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  159. 164
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Space Alien Magician @ 139

    did a bit more research on this Priest and found this:

    In December 2010, O’Grady was arrested in Dublin for possession of child pornography. The victims were as young as two years old.[11] Authorities discovered child pornography photos and videos on O’Grady’s laptop, on an external hard drive, and on a USB key.[12]

    There is NO rehab for these vermin….

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  160. 165
    Sam Ferris says:

    It was 2 victims in a single trial. So I was “caught” once. Keep in mind this was consentual where they stated they were paid (and the 17 year old never stated that she told me her age). Yes the laws SHOULD protect minors from harm but getting paid for violent love is generally beneficial as monetary income can only be considered beneficial. I dont think that anyone has the right to put a gun to the head of a 15 year old and tell them who they can or who they cannot have violent love with, especially for beneficial reasons, “for their own protection” – do you?

    The pic of me under the lady was at a Y&T concert (80’s rock band) hardly a spot where one would expect “children” to congregate. Ya it was all ages but one would have to question the wisdom of bringing “children” to such an event. At any rate no one was offended and obviously the lady in the picture was having a good time. Now all of a sudden any place where its physically possible for a child to be should be completely free of all sexual innuendo? I suppose you would have Elvis Presley arrested for “gyrating” in front of an all age audience?

    “An offender knowing he will get 5 years will KILL his prey just the same as knowing he will get longer.”

    Read the case of John Albert Gardner III, when the laws were reasonable he let his young victim live and got 5 or so years, then he was registered the laws increased the penalty and he raped a 17 year old and killed her. You do know that not a SINGLE pedophile priest has killed his victim, why is that do you think? You do realize that no witness to someone jay walking has ever been killed, why do you think that is? You just assume that kitten kickers are plain stupid and can’t think rationally like you can and will just do the evil thing in all circumstances rather then do the same risk/reward analysis that you would do.

    Why do you say there is no cure? There are 700,000 registered kitten kickers in America, where is the headline “699,994 registered kitten kickers did not commit a crime today!” Attributing the acts of a few to a whole rather large group is just as smart as saying “all pit bulls bite people” based upon the fact that some in fact do.

    There was dismissal of a large number of cases against kitten kickers in California:

    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news3/2003_06_27_Bailey_SomeMolesters_Jerome_Jerry_Leach_3.htm

    Yet if what you say is true then these individuals would have been molesting victims up to the time of their arrest and would have additional charges besides ones that were 10 or so years old. They obviously came to the attention of the police and a simple newspaper add could find additional more recent victims but apparently such was not the case. Yes some are predators who are constantly actively looking for victims yet I am sure the vast majority are crimes of opportunity where once the circumstances which led to the original crimes changed then no more were committed.

    And again I ask the question: What are you “concerned parents” doing about the 19 out of 20 non registered kitten kickers that pose a threat to your child? Or do you still focus all your preventive efforts on 5 percent of the total threat to your child?

    What is unreasonable about increasing police presence in areas (i.e. placing one officer in spots where there are none) where children gather. First off no one will commit a crime in the presence of a police officer and 2nd off not only will predators be scared away but your child will be protected from other crimes such as assault or abuse.

    Oh and one final point to the “holier then thou” crowd. Believe it or not everyone is a criminal, go into a law library you can start reading and never finish before you die, there is no humanly possible way for you to know all the laws you can violate and the cases construing those laws. I can walk into any home in America and find multiple building code violations, I can read your tax forms and mortgage applications and find multiple felonies, and lets not even get into your driving habits, and then international law, is there any possibility that some feel that all Americans are criminals under their laws ….

    “The criminal is the person who is investigated” – SDW ’11

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  161. 166
    Scotsman says:

    RE: maxrommel @ 160

    Tim’s a liberal? On this planet, or are you living somewhere else?

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  162. 167
    Scotsman says:

    kitten kicker, or just offensive? You decide. Man flies in woman’s underwear:

    http://imgs.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/crime/2011/06/21/us_airways_3275x368.jpg

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/crime/detail?entry_id=91446

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  163. 168
    Sam Ferris says:

    RE: Jonness @ 3

    http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

    It could be as high as 9 out of 10 violent love crimes are committed by individuals known to the victim.

    The probability of a stranger (10 percent probability to commit a new violent love crime against you) who is a registered kitten kicker (5 percent probability to commit a new violent love crime against you) assaulting you or your loved ones is 10 percent X 5 percent or .05 percent or 1 in 200. Meaning if you are a victim of a violent love crime there is only 1 in 200 probability its by a Stanger who is a registered kitten kicker…..

    Yes its wise to put all your preventive efforts into stopping 1/200th of the threat and do nothing to combat 199/200th of the threat.

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  164. 169
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 165RE: Sam Ferris @ 165

    You know Sam…………I want you………….I want you………….To Rescue Me from all this vermin Forever because Come Hell or High Water you are ALL Contagious.

    God help me that Sam and I have something in common while I was growing up in San Jose w/ Dennis Erectus on KOME……………

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  165. 170
    Sam Ferris says:

    RE: ray pepper @ 64

    “Caught with child porn … ”

    Oh please ….

    Ya watching a murder on TV is like comitting a murder in real life. People who watch murders on TV are going to go out and commit a murder.

    Hey I watch star trek, I guess that means Ill be a spaceship captian!

    Have you ever had a dream where you commited a crime?

    “If all your dreams are crimes then you must be a criminal” – SDW ’11

    Hey I like Dennis Erectus and KOME, to bad they are gone ….

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  166. 171
    Sam Ferris says:

    RE: BillE @ 12

    So you would suggest the penalty for forcible rape of a child be the same as the penalty for murder so there is no downside whatsoever to killing the witness/victim?

    I really don’t understand how you can even remotely equate rape / child molestation with murder. If I was a parent and had a choice between return of my child alive with no permanent physical damage but only being able to get 5 years of revenge vs. having my child murdered but being able to get revenge by killing the perv, I think I would want my child alive.

    You would sacrifice your child on the Alter Of Revenge? Who is more sick, you or the perv?

    I’m going to have a good “I told you so” when we read a case where a parent has murdered their own child to cover up the violent love crimes the parent committed against that child because the punishment is the same either way.

    I think rational intelligent individuals would pass laws making it stupid for the perv to kill his victim/witness, instead of the current laws which make it the smart move to kill the victim/witness. You have a possibility to evade capture by killing the only witness and you have no possibility at all of additional punishment. There is just no down side.

    Oh by the way to determine the value of real estate its not “location, location, location” its “jobs, jobs, jobs”.

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  167. 172
    MichaelB says:

    RE: The Tim @ 118

    Fair enough Tim. Just took a peek at the Everett police report for the Port Gardner section of Everett. Seems like a high crime area to me, especially looking at the high number of assaults, stolen vehicles and narcotics crimes. But hey, according to you I’m just “obtuse” or have essentially non-existent reading skills. Whatever.

    At least I can read a police report.

    Good Luck!

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  168. 174

    By Scotsman @ 66:

    RE: maxrommel @ 160

    Tim’s a liberal? On this planet, or are you living somewhere else?

    Maybe in Everett? I think that was one of the criteria that he considered but didn’t report to us. “Place where I will be considered a liberal–1 point.” ;-)

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  169. 175
    Pegasus says:

    By MichaelB @ 172:

    RE: The Tim @ 118

    Fair enough Tim. Just took a peek at the Everett police report for the Port Gardner section of Everett. Seems like a high crime area to me, especially looking at the high number of assaults, stolen vehicles and narcotics crimes. But hey, according to you I’m just “obtuse” or have essentially non-existent reading skills. Whatever.

    At least I can read a police report.

    Good Luck!

    Tim’s solution to people who differ with his irrational opinions on sexual predators is to label them as “obtuse”. Tim’s article was written to try and rationalize and minimize the fact that he bought a house in an area loaded with registered sexual offenders. He writes about the facts of the ones that live closest to him as being mostly minor offenders. “Do any of these guys really sound like people you should live in fear of just because they happen to live a couple blocks away from you?” Closer scrutiny of the 8 offenders that live within about a 1000 feet from Tim’s new abode reveals that most are REPEAT offenders of crimes mainly against children or minors with convictions for child rape, first degree child molestation, etc. They have admitted to molesting children for years and multiple times. Many of their crimes go unpunished. Even though they have admitted to multiple crimes, they were never charged or prosecuted for these additional crimes. I will repeat Tim’s question and answer it rationally. “Do any of these guys really sound like people you should live in fear of just because they happen to live a couple blocks away from you?” Hell yes!!!

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  170. 176
    The Tim says:

    By maxrommel @ 160:

    I mentioned that your Everett neighborhood was “dismal.” My great grand-mother (Amy Keay) lived at 3201 Norton (Everett) in 1906). This was a fine neighborhood 100+yrears ago!! But things change Tim.

    Oh yeah, Everett was so much better when it was the “City of Smokestacks.”

    *rolls eyes*

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  171. 177

    RE: The Tim @ 176 – Do you have to go back so far? I remember Fife was bad back in the 60s, and although I didn’t go through Everett as much as Fife, I don’t think it was great up there either.

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  172. 178
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 175

    “Closer scrutiny of the 8 offenders that live within about a 1000 feet from Tim’s new abode reveals that most are REPEAT offenders of crimes mainly against children or minors with convictions for child rape, first degree child molestation, etc.”

    Is this a true fact? I thought info was provided that they live 2 miles away?

    I will concede neighborhoods/schools change vastly with 2 miles distance.

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  173. 179
    cybopob says:

    RE: patient @ 145

    yep, and as soon as you get your label, Ray Pepper will shoot you with his baseball bat!

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  174. 180

    By ray pepper @ 178:

    RE: Pegasus @ 175

    “Closer scrutiny of the 8 offenders that live within about a 1000 feet from Timâ��s new abode reveals that most are REPEAT offenders of crimes mainly against children or minors with convictions for child rape, first degree child molestation, etc.”

    Is this a true fact?

    I think it’s unlikely to be true since the post also includes this sentence: “Even though they have admitted to multiple crimes, they were never charged or prosecuted for these additional crimes.”

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  175. 181
    ray pepper says:

    RE: cybopob @ 179

    unfortunately I Coach basketball and soccer. I guess I could find a bat somewhere but it would more likely be a pummeling with cleats and water bottles.

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  176. 182
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 80 – If they admitted to multiple crimes that they were never charged with how is that untrue?

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  177. 183
    Pegasus says:

    By ray pepper @ 78:

    RE: Pegasus @ 175

    “Closer scrutiny of the 8 offenders that live within about a 1000 feet from Timâ��s new abode reveals that most are REPEAT offenders of crimes mainly against children or minors with convictions for child rape, first degree child molestation, etc.”

    Is this a true fact? I thought info was provided that they live 2 miles away?

    I will concede neighborhoods/schools change vastly with 2 miles distance.

    Eight do live about a thousand feet from Tim and about 58 live within a mile of Tim.

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  178. 184
    Nick Sincere says:

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 163:

    By maxrommel @ 162:
    Why are you all smug, Kary?? Can’t handle the truth? violent love predators are a huge problem and Timmy is talking about them as if they are jay walkers! I’m not going to give child molesters a free pass. My family has been in Everett since 1889 and I know their history quite well. None of them were democrats and none of them coddled child molesters. These people are sick and their location needs to be known.

    I’m not sure what being a Democrat or being a liberal has anything to do with this.
    If you’ve read his posts or met him or talked to him, you would know that Tim is neither a Democrat nor a liberal. I’m a liberal. And I also think that people convicted of predatory violent love crimes should be shown no mercy, and repeat kitten kickers should probably never get out of jail. I guess if someone disagrees with you they must hold opposite political beliefs to your own?

    Ira, you’ve misquoted max, notice that he used the lower case “d” for democrats. From that I would conclude that they were some brand of fascist.

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  179. 185

    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

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  180. 186
    ray pepper says:

    Tim posted this on 34: ” I would argue that you’re not really reducing your risk in any non-trivial way. You’re only reducing your perception of risk. ”

    I keep remembering that statement. It maybe entirely true based on the links and support as to why these registered kitten kickers are statistically not going to reoffend.

    However, with my previous rental experience to a group home, and seeing what occurred TWICE, I have seen enough. My opinion is based on what I experienced with my rental and my overprotective nature. I thought supervised care 24 hours a day was enough by a counselor with alarmed doors and windows. But, these vermin still must get to the jobs/appointments and walk our streets and neighborhoods.

    Based on the stats, and Tim’s comfort level living there, I’m sure nothing will EVER happen to him, his family, or adjacent neighbor. If an incident occurs in the future he will remember this blog entry and the irrational people like myself who throw all stats out the window and choose far different factors when buying a home to reside in.

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  181. 187
    BubbleBuyer says:

    I did a search in my neighborhood

    One block from me is a guy convicted of rape of a child in the first degree. This guy live 3 blocks from McClure middle school and within 2 blocks of at least 4 child daycare centers.

    5 blocks away is a guy convicted of molestation of a child in the first degree.

    7 blocks away lives a guy convicted of rape in the second degree. He lives one block away from Seattle Country Day School.

    The message is that due to our liberal mindset, most of these guys receive fairly short sentences and are then released with no supervision or restrictions on where they can live. I think that it is prudent, even required of a good parent, to be aware of the sexual preditors who live in our neighborhoods and to avoid putting our children in a situation where they are forced to live close to these animals. Most sexual preditors have a very high likelyhood of re-offending. We should all be vigialent. Ultimately, the state will not protect our children from these criminals and so it is up to us parents to do so with whatever means we have available to us.

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  182. 188
    ray pepper says:

    RE: BubbleBuyer @ 187

    “Ultimately, the state will not protect our children from these criminals and so it is up to us parents to do so with whatever means we have available to us.”

    As tim likes to post…”Ding”

    I give that statement ” DING DING DING DING”

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  183. 189
    Pegasus says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 85:

    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

    Go to http://www.crimereports dot com, put in Tim’s address and click on the offenders that live close to Tim. I wrongly assumed that you had already done that as the link was in Tim’s article and others have posted it here also. Try reading the facts and come back with your baloney answer. Posting that things are likely not true when you have no knowledge or facts is just plain stupid but hey that certainly is not the first time for you…..

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  184. 190

    RE: ray pepper @ 186 – Ray, realistically whose child do you think is more likely to be attacked? Someone who lives an an area they think is safe, or someone who lives in an area they don’t mistake as being safe? Which parent is likely to take more precautions?

    Pretending your child is safe because you live in a good neighborhood is not a good strategy. That’s like pretending you won’t get shot because guns are outlawed in your city.

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  185. 191
    masaba says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    I keep hearing you guys say this. So let me ask a related question to which the answer is obvious. Who is more likely to be attacked, a soldier in Afghanistan where he knows that the bad guys are everywhere around him, or a soldier on Ft. Lewis who feels relatively safe?

    I just don’t see how knowing that the offenders are near you makes it better to live near them. Like I said, the registery is only the ones you know about. A neighborhood with a higher density of known criminals probably has a higher density of unknown criminals as well.

    In either case, you should be always mindful of your kids safety, even if you live on Whidbey Island, that’s just common sense. It’s a bit of a straw man for some of you to keep acting like someone becomes an obtuse parent as soon as they move to a safe neighborhood.

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  186. 192
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    sorry Kary…………….stupid post…AT BEST…

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  187. 193

    By masaba @ 191:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190 -I just don’t see how knowing that the offenders are near you makes it better to live near them. Like I said, the registery is only the ones you know about. .

    I’m not saying it’s better to live near them. I’m saying that if thinking you’re safer makes you let your guard down, you’re more likely to have a problem. The key is prevention through ongoing behavior, not looking at some data source and thinking you’re safe.

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  188. 194

    By ray pepper @ 92:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    sorry Kary…………….stupid post…AT BEST…

    No, what is stupid is thinking these guys only strike close to where they live.

    What is stupid is thinking that the registered kitten kickers are the only ones out there.

    What is stupid is not realizing that people you allow your children access to are far more likely to cause an incident.

    But whatever, if you want to look at an Internet site and think you’re safe, go ahead. Right after that how about going over to Zillow to find out what you think your house is worth? :-D

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  189. 195

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 85:

    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

    Pegasus, you really like to wast my time.

    Where at Crimereports.com does it mention that these people have admitted to other crimes that they have not been charged with?

    Again, just because you say something doesn’t make it true. Support what you say with a source.

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  190. 196
    HappyRenter says:

    By BubbleBuyer @ 187:

    The message is that due to our liberal mindset, most of these guys receive fairly short sentences and are then released with no supervision or restrictions on where they can live.

    That’s the point. They can live wherever they want. So, nothing prevents one of them to move into your neighborhood, even if none was living there before.

    Yes, I agree parents need to be vigilant. Your kid can be attacked in a place where you least expect it, for example in the public restroom of an airport or shopping mall, where the attacker can easily escape without being identified.

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  191. 197
    D. in Ballard says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 94:

    By ray pepper @ 92:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    sorry Kary…………….stupid post…AT BEST…

    No, what is stupid is thinking these guys only strike close to where they live.

    What is stupid is thinking that the registered kitten kickers are the only ones out there.

    That is stupid. But no one is actually saying that.

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  192. 198

    By D. in Ballard @ 97:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 94:
    By ray pepper @ 92:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    sorry Kary…………….stupid post…AT BEST…

    No, what is stupid is thinking these guys only strike close to where they live.

    What is stupid is thinking that the registered kitten kickers are the only ones out there.

    That is stupid. But no one is actually saying that.

    If you think you’re safe because none live near you, that’s exactly what you’re saying. If you think that the data sources show all the kitten kickers living near you, that’s exactly what you’re saying.

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  193. 199
    ray pepper says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 194

    again……….insanely stupid comments Kary..So many I cant keep track.

    “What is stupid is not realizing that people you allow your children access to are far more likely to cause an incident.”

    The people that surround my children apparently are far different then living close to Tim. I will “roll the dice” and take my chances on my non registered kitten kicker friends and family then those who have already committed crimes. Call me a GAMBLER for doing this.

    “What is stupid is thinking that the registered kitten kickers are the only ones out there”–it goes without saying. This is well known and VERY OBVIOUS!

    “But whatever, if you want to look at an Internet site and think you’re safe, go ahead.” The more I look at internet sites the more I realize how much more I can do to protect my family.

    If you and Tim feel comfortable living in close proximity to these KNOWN VERMIN then great! I simply do NOT based on what I have witnessed 1st hand. Like I said..I have a far different set of criteria when buying a home for a personal residence.

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  194. 200
    Pegasus says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 95:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 85:
    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

    Pegasus, you really like to wast my time.

    Where at Crimereports.com does it mention that these people have admitted to other crimes that they have not been charged with?

    Again, just because you say something doesn’t make it true. Support what you say with a source.

    I happen to speak the truth. You should try it. If you click on the offender list by crimereports there is a box that is below the offender’s picture labeled “State kitten kicker Registry”. Click on that to see reports about convictions, history and statements about unprosecuted violent love crimes that the perp has admitted to. Also if they molest a child or children repeatly for four years they are a repeat offender in everyone’s mind except yours. Try reading my source this time instead of repeating your bogus answer that me saying something doesn’t make it true.

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  195. 201
    masaba says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 193:

    By masaba @ 191:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190 -I just don’t see how knowing that the offenders are near you makes it better to live near them. Like I said, the registery is only the ones you know about. .

    I’m not saying it’s better to live near them. I’m saying that if thinking you’re safer makes you let your guard down, you’re more likely to have a problem. The key is prevention through ongoing behavior, not looking at some data source and thinking you’re safe.

    If you don’t think it’s better to live near them, then why do you keep saying that people are silly for not wanting to live near them?

    Why can’t you just concede that people are not silly for wanting to live in neighborhoods with a smaller known criminal element?

    Finally, in an effort for a little quid pro quo, I will concede, you are right. If people move to a safer neighborhood and immediately become completely oblivious to their child’s safety, that is stupid. No one is really arguing for that, but in any case, it is correct.

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  196. 202
    MichaelB says:

    Tim’s neighborhood in Everett has 47 assaults, 3 of them sexual assaults, 23 burglaries, 68 narcotics busts, 115 vehicle prowls, 37 vehicle thefts, 1 arson, and 2 robberies in a 4-month period. On top of that, a bunch of kitten kickers. And he has the nerve to call me “obtuse”.

    Crime Bubble?

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  197. 203

    By masaba @ 201:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 193:
    By masaba @ 191:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190 -I just don’t see how knowing that the offenders are near you makes it better to live near them. Like I said, the registery is only the ones you know about. .

    I’m not saying it’s better to live near them. I’m saying that if thinking you’re safer makes you let your guard down, you’re more likely to have a problem. The key is prevention through ongoing behavior, not looking at some data source and thinking you’re safe.

    If you don’t think it’s better to live near them, then why do you keep saying that people are silly for not wanting to live near them?

    There’s a difference between not wanting to live near them and letting that affect their decision as to where to live. I doubt there are few people that would prefer to not live near them, if given a choice. But the issue is, should that affect where you choose to live or make you feel safer or unsafer?

    As noted above, Ardell’s link indicates there’s only one within a mile of me. Pegasus’ link shows a few more, but not many. Neither makes me feel good, and I wouldn’t be particularly worried (if I had kids) and it got worse in six months.

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  198. 204
    whatsmyname says:

    Is there a way to find out where convicted arsonists live? My friend wants to live near lots of convicted arsonists so that he can stop living in a fools paradise, and gain the awareness to start concentrating on meaningful things to prevent his house from being burnt by an un-convicted arsonist.

    If one is comfortable with the risk, then that is fine for them. They are the ones to live with the choice. But to poo poo another’s discomfort on the theory that obvious risk makes one less negligent is silly. It’s a bug, not a feature. I personally compromised on the long commute. How many of you will buy the argument that you’ve shortchanged yourself on alone time?

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  199. 205
    masaba says:

    By whatsmyname @ 204:

    Is there a way to find out where convicted arsonists live? My friend wants to live near lots of convicted arsonists so that he can stop living in a fools paradise, and gain the awareness to start concentrating on meaningful things to prevent his house from being burnt by an un-convicted arsonist.
    -

    This post should be highlighted. It’s funny and insightful.

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  200. 206
    MichaelB says:

    Tim, “…But really when it comes down to it, this whole registered kitten kicker thing is a misdirection anyway. People worry about it because the information is out there and easy to find. But how many registered drunk drivers, registered drug dealers, registered car thieves, registered assaulters, or registered burglars do you have in your neighborhood? Oh right, none, because most of the crimes that home owners should be worried about don’t require offenders to register their location for life…”

    Tim, please see above. A crime report is basically a register of crimes committed in your neighborhood. I’ve never seen a more obvious case of someone getting all twisted up like a contortionist to try and justify a poor decision. Just keep digging Tim…

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  201. 207

    By Pegasus @ 100:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 95:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 85:
    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

    Pegasus, you really like to wast my time.

    Where at Crimereports.com does it mention that these people have admitted to other crimes that they have not been charged with?

    Again, just because you say something doesn’t make it true. Support what you say with a source.

    I happen to speak the truth. You should try it. If you click on the offender list by crimereports there is a box that is below the offender’s picture labeled “State kitten kicker Registry”. Click on that to see reports about convictions, history and statements about unprosecuted violent love crimes that the perp has admitted to. Also if they molest a child or children repeatly for four years they are a repeat offender in everyone’s mind except yours. Try reading my source this time instead of repeating your bogus answer that me saying something doesn’t make it true.

    Why do you make this so difficult? You claimed these admissions exist for multiple people living within 1000 feet of Tim’s address. Name them!

    We’ve posted back and forth about 5 times and you still don’t understand what providing a source means. It doesn’t mean point to a link and make someone else look through a lot of information to verify what you said. If you have the information, post the specifics.

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  202. 208
    The Tim says:

    One last comment on this subject, and then I’m done.

    I think the core issue here is risk assessment. How does one quantify risk, which risks does one consider, and how does one best mediate those risks.

    I haven’t run the specific numbers, but I’d be willing to bet that you expose your family to a statistically significantly larger amount of risk by driving an hour or two a day in your car/minivan than you by living nearby some registered kitten kickers, which would make moving out to the suburbs to escape registered kitten kickers a worse than zero sum game.

    Some of the commenters here seem to base their risk assessment on the gut emotional reaction they have to the disgusting nature of the crimes committed in the past by people who happen to live a few blocks away. I prefer to take a more analytical approach.

    Obviously nobody with a strong emotional reaction to an issue like this is going to be convinced by a blog post or its subsequent comments, so this is the last I’ll say on the matter.

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  203. 209
    whatsmyname says:

    By The Tim @ 207:

    One last comment on this subject, and then I’m done.

    I think the core issue here is risk assessment. How does one quantify risk, which risks does one consider, and how does one best mediate those risks.

    I haven’t run the specific numbers, but I’d be willing to bet that you expose your family to a statistically significantly larger amount of risk by driving an hour or two a day in your car/minivan than you by living nearby some registered kitten kickers, which would make moving out to the suburbs to escape registered kitten kickers a worse than zero sum game.

    Some of the commenters here seem to base their risk assessment on the gut emotional reaction they have to the disgusting nature of the crimes committed in the past by people who happen to live a few blocks away. I prefer to take a more analytical approach.

    Obviously nobody with a strong emotional reaction to an issue like this is going to be convinced by a blog post or its subsequent comments, so this is the last I’ll say on the matter.

    My kids don’t commute. So the equation is not purely how much risk, but also to who. I don’t know why this is emotional (bad) versus analytical (good) You can not have any decision rule without values.

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  204. 210
    masaba says:

    By The Tim @ 207:

    Obviously nobody with a strong emotional reaction to an issue like this is going to be convinced by a blog post or its subsequent comments, so this is the last I’ll say on the matter.

    I have no strong emotional attachment to the issue. I don’t have kids, I like neighborhoods like Cap hill which probably also has a high number of convicted violent love criminals, and I think that our society has a little too much paranoia about these types of crimes in general.

    However, I think that your calling people ‘silly’ for considering the number of known felons who live in a neighborhood is a little strange. Their risk assessment is different than yours, and it is not ‘silly’ to consider known felons as part of the risk in moving to a neighborhood.

    We all choose which risks we want to accept. It would be really hard to ‘run the specific numbers’ anyway, as it probably varies from person to person based on (in your comparing the risks of driving, for instance) how much they drive, how old their kids are, how safe of a driver they are in the first place, etc.

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  205. 211

    By masaba @ 210:

    By The Tim @ 207:
    Obviously nobody with a strong emotional reaction to an issue like this is going to be convinced by a blog post or its subsequent comments, so this is the last I’ll say on the matter.

    I have no strong emotional attachment to the issue. I don’t have kids, I like neighborhoods like Cap hill which probably also has a high number of convicted violent love criminals, and I think that our society has a little too much paranoia about these types of crimes in general.

    Part of my views are probably based on living on Seattle’s First Hill for many years. Back in the day it was a very spotty neighborhood, and probably still is. There was an alcohol treatment center a block away. You had ultra-rich high security buildings, but I had a friend of a friend who lived nearby in an apartment building where one person put a note on the outside of their door indicating that they did not deal drugs, etc..

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  206. 212
    Rudy101 says:

    See, it is very easy to deflate this futile exercise of determining property values based upon some real or imagined threat that the State has put out there, and done so, without even any regard to any individual. How to deflate it? Those that have to register, now no longer have to register. They can do this for public safety reasons. A person on a public registry puts the community at panic, destabilizes the registrant’s life and ultimately makes the community more dangerous in many ways (even by vigilante justice).

    See, the registry isn’t about monitoring at all. Knowing where a person lives and works is not monitoring, it is harassing. The reason they don’t monitor, because as much hot air that people blow in this thread about how dangerous a registrant is, is because the State can’t show them dangerous under a legal standard of proof which would allow monitoring (like they do when a person is committed because they present a threat to themselves or others).

    Get it? Your registry has no meaning until you decide to actually have a hearing and determine someone dangerous under some accepted standard of proof. Without that hearing, your registry is nothing, this debate is nothing and nobody has to follow your stupid laws.

    You people are idiots. There is no RIGHT to know who is in your neighborhood. But I tell you this, there IS a right to live in peace within the community. Take THAT and put it on your registry.

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  207. 213
    patient says:

    By masaba @ 205:

    By whatsmyname @ 204:
    Is there a way to find out where convicted arsonists live? My friend wants to live near lots of convicted arsonists so that he can stop living in a fools paradise, and gain the awareness to start concentrating on meaningful things to prevent his house from being burnt by an un-convicted arsonist.
    -

    This post should be highlighted. It’s funny and insightful.

    This is a truly unusual thread at the bubble. Who would think I would ever find a funny and insightful comment from whatsmyname here, ever. Love it.

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  208. 214
    LocalYokel says:

    By whatsmyname @ 204:

    Is there a way to find out where convicted arsonists live? My friend wants to live near lots of convicted arsonists so that he can stop living in a fools paradise, and gain the awareness to start concentrating on meaningful things to prevent his house from being burnt by an un-convicted arsonist.

    +1. Talk about bursting a bubble… :)

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  209. 215
    LA Relo says:

    RE: The Tim @ 38 – Assume for the question you did know (after all, knowing is half the battle). It wouldn’t be hard to figure out someone was an ex-con.

    I think most people would say no to a convicted killer, while someone convicted of downloading free music (again, assuming you knew) is a non-issue. Each person views the risk differently. Knowing doesn’t make you safer; your perception of that risk determines whether you feel safe or not.

    It’s different for everyone. If you ‘re a bachelor trained in Jujitsu and cage fighting, you’re probably not too worried about the perv down the street. If you have a wife and young daughters at home alone while you work each day, you’d probably think differently.

    If I were the latter, I would let a national registry affect my buying decision.

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  210. 216
    ARDELL says:

    The lesson in this is don’t “paint yourself into a corner”. Pick the where before the what. The best what in the wrong where usually equals rent vs buy.

    Don’t make hard and fast likes and financial choices that paint you into a corner where you are choosing between 59 kitten kickers and 59 kitten kickers within a mile.

    From the history of the blog…don’t like split entry homes, don’t like using two incomes to buy a house, don’t like Adjustable Rate Mortgages (exotic financing), don’t like busy roads, don’t like bad mls photos, don’t like spending even more than 20% of ONE income on housing…the list goes on and on.

    The reality is segregating this issue to its own post distracts you from the fact that once you line up all your other wants and desires…you are led to a where that you may not like, and feel like your choice is only in that where. When in fact the chain of events that led to this where started on day one when you chose to hate townhomes and split entry homes and spending 28% of your gross income on housing.

    Before you start painting the floor…look for the end point you are painting TOWARD.

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  211. 217
    Pegasus says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 207:

    By Pegasus @ 100:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 95:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 85:
    RE: Pegasus @ 182RE: Pegasus @ 183 – You do realize that just repeating the same things over again doesn’t make it more likely to be true, right? Sources please.

    Pegasus, you really like to wast my time.

    Where at Crimereports.com does it mention that these people have admitted to other crimes that they have not been charged with?

    Again, just because you say something doesn’t make it true. Support what you say with a source.

    I happen to speak the truth. You should try it. If you click on the offender list by crimereports there is a box that is below the offender’s picture labeled “State kitten kicker Registry”. Click on that to see reports about convictions, history and statements about unprosecuted violent love crimes that the perp has admitted to. Also if they molest a child or children repeatly for four years they are a repeat offender in everyone’s mind except yours. Try reading my source this time instead of repeating your bogus answer that me saying something doesn’t make it true.

    Why do you make this so difficult? You claimed these admissions exist for multiple people living within 1000 feet of Tim’s address. Name them!

    We’ve posted back and forth about 5 times and you still don’t understand what providing a source means. It doesn’t mean point to a link and make someone else look through a lot of information to verify what you said. If you have the information, post the specifics.

    I won’t name them here. The state already did. Besides I don’t want you accusing me again of plagiarizing web material by posting more than a link and a short statement which I have done. It is all there for anyone to see. Incidentally I double checked the eight offenders that are closest to Tim’s new residence and it appears that all eight are repeat offenders. Kary if you are once again too lazy to do your homework I am not surprised. It would take you all of five minutes to review the perps’ files. It is your MO to pop off without any facts. I am done with your silliness.

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  212. 218
    D. in Ballard says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 98:

    By D. in Ballard @ 97:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 94:
    By ray pepper @ 92:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 190

    sorry Kary…………….stupid post…AT BEST…

    No, what is stupid is thinking these guys only strike close to where they live.

    What is stupid is thinking that the registered kitten kickers are the only ones out there.

    That is stupid. But no one is actually saying that.

    If you think you’re safe because none live near you, that’s exactly what you’re saying. If you think that the data sources show all the kitten kickers living near you, that’s exactly what you’re saying.

    Kary, you really are a piece of work. In addition to lawyer and re agent apparently you are now a mindreader. I’m through here.

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  213. 220
    patient says:

    RE: D. in Ballard @ 218

    Arguing with Kary is like analyzing the reason for existence, it only leads to more questions with a risk for resulting insanity. Clever to put the breaks on while you still have the wits.

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  214. 221
    Matt the Engineer says:

    By whatsmyname @ 209:
    My kids don’t commute.

    Sure they do. Even if you have a stay-at-home parent or nanny, surely they come with you to the store, or to friends’ homes, or to the movies, etc. City life means walking to most of these things, or if you drive then driving at slow speeds. Speed kills, and speed is the rule in the suburbs – they were designed for it.

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  215. 222
    hoary says:

    Wow, I’ve somehow always miss the SB barnburner threads until they are days old…

    Let me just say that while I understand the “logic” and “engineers mindset” and the “known risks” of living next to a bunch of child rapists and sexual predators…I disagree with this post.

    First question I asked the sellers when we looked at their home “how are the neighbors?”. They told us about the whole neighborhood, who had kids, dogs etc. Does that mean child-rapist lightning can’t strike here? Of course not, but having other vigilant families with children nearby and no reported incidents in our neighborhood is preferable to us than the opposite. Not sure how that sentiment can be viewed as illogical…

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  216. 223
    LeftOverpricedSeattle says:

    Tim,

    I wasn’t going to bring this up, but after reading some of the replies from some of the regulars, I wanted to clarify a few things for your readers. As someone who has two adopted children and has been through more FBI, USCIS and Washington State (and other states) fingerprinting appointments than I care to remember, as well as multiple home study and home study updates, I know that being an owner or renter plays no role in whether you are approved for an adoption or not (unless the agency you are using is requiring home ownership somehow, in which case I would urge you to seek another agency!). Further, as someone whose first child was brought home to a home we owned and whose second child was brought home to a home we rented, it really makes no difference, other than painting and decorating the child’s room in anticipation (and with child #1 that was definitely a way to help pass the time waiting for the arrival, with #2, we were so busy with #1 we didn’t have that “waiting” factor as much). Of course, a landlord may give you the option to redecorate as long as you leave it like you found it when you leave, but that’s dependent upon the landlord.

    Additionally, as you may know now, the site visit part of the home study is usually not as invasive as some people think it is. They will check out the home and write about it in their report. Here is what mine looked like from 6 years ago:

    XXXXXX live in a fairly new two-story home in rural XXXXXXX, Washington. The upper level has four bedrooms and two bathrooms. The main floor has one bath, spacious kitchen, living and dinning area, library and laundry facility. The garage holds four cars. The home sits on nearly one third of an acre with a large fenced back yard. XXXXXXX is within an hours drive of two large metropolitan areas, Seattle and Tacoma Washington with diverse populations. Their home is with a few miles of schools, parks and excellent medical care.

    As everyone can see, whether you rent or own is not a determining factor at all in whether you are approved for an adoption in Washington State. It won’t even be mentioned in the home study report unless you have a mortgage to list under your debts in the Financial part of the home study. Having said all of that, I can see where the “right” home may play a part in whether a birth mother “selects” you for her child in a private adoption scenario, but renting does not disqualify you from adoption at all in the State of Washington and I am not sure of any countries where it does. The state and your agency may not have approved the rental you were in at the time, but that doesn’t mean a different rental would not have been approved any more than a home that you own with invalid bedrooms would not pass site visit approval.

    Judging from what I am seeing on your blog though, it sounds like your adoption process is already well underway so presumably you know all of this already. As such, please keep in mind that I am not suggesting that you are misleading people about owning vs. renting regarding adoption, only that some posters are under an incorrect assumption regarding adoption requirements in Washington State.

    Buying a home because you want to paint the child’s room pink or blue (or whatever) and put a swing set in the back yard is a perfectly valid reason to buy, whether the upcoming family member is biological or adopted, but it’s not required to be a home owner in order to adopt so I thought I would help clarify a misconception I am seeing from readers who aren’t knowledgeable on this subject. It’s misinformation about adoption that doesn’t need to be out there because, as you know, since there are already a lot of hurdles when it comes to adoption we don’t need imaginary ones out there as well.

    Congrats on both the house and upcoming child!

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  217. 224
    The Tim says:

    By LeftOverpricedSeattle @ 223:

    …being an owner or renter plays no role in whether you are approved for an adoption or not.

    That’s correct. I never said that our decision to own was because we need to for adoption. Some other commenters have misunderstood what I said if that’s what they think.

    What I said was that our previous home (a below-market rental) was not up to the necessary standards, so we were going to have to move. Since we were moving anyway, the decision to buy was based on the simple buy-vs-rent financial comparison. In the neighborhoods and home types we were interested in, it was cheaper to buy than to keep renting, so the decision was fairly easy.

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  218. 225
    Sam Ferris says:

    “The people that surround my children apparently are far different then living close to Tim. I will “roll the dice” and take my chances on my non registered kitten kicker friends and family then those who have already committed crimes. Call me a GAMBLER for doing this.”

    As I supported with facts and links the probability that if your child is a victim of a new violent love crime the perv is as follows:

    Stranger and Registered kitten kicker: 1 in 200
    Stranger and Not Register kitten kicker: 19 in 200
    Known to victim and Registered kitten kicker: 9 in 200
    Known to victim and Not Registered kitten kicker: 171 in 200

    “The people that surround your children” are 171/200th likely to be the perv whereas the stranger RSO is 1/200th likely to be the perv. GoGo Mr. Gambler, thats odds of 171 against you and 1 for you. Very smart risk analysis there.

    Gee I’ll worry about the 1 violent love crime threat and ignore the other 171 times more likely violent love crime threats against my child!

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  219. 226
    Sam Ferris says:

    “The matter at issue here is family security and whether demographics concerning registered kitten kickers is an accurate statistical predictor for the risk of victimization”.

    What is unclear, there is an INVERSE relationship being near registered kitten kickers vs. being the victim of a new violent love crime as if a RSO is stupid enough to commit a crime near where he lives then he is so stupid that has probably already been caught. How could you assume that an RSO is to stupid or lazy to get in a car and drive to another location to commit a crime? Only if you make that assumption does it matter where you live vs. where the pervs live.

    Obviously the police will investigate RSO’s near where the crime was committed, but they don’t have sufficient resources to extend their investigation out to infinity. Thus if you are an RSO you are MUCH more likely to be apprehended if you commit a violent love crime near where you live instead of far away. How much brains does it take to figure that out? Again you assume RSO’s are as dumb as rocks to make your point.

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  220. 227
    HappyRenter says:

    By The Tim @ 8:

    I haven’t run the specific numbers, but I’d be willing to bet that you expose your family to a statistically significantly larger amount of risk by driving an hour or two a day in your car/minivan than you by living nearby some registered kitten kickers, which would make moving out to the suburbs to escape registered kitten kickers a worse than zero sum game.

    I know people who live in the suburbs and have to deal with real problems. One person lives in a neighborhood with a lot of dogs and people have been attacked by dogs, which escaped from private yard fences. They are so scared to be attacked that they never leave their home on foot, always by car. Another person lives north of Seattle on a road with no side walks. One child and an old woman have been killed by reckless drivers in the past years while walking near their homes.

    But Tim is right, you would have to run a statistical analysis to find out which neighborhood is safe and has less crime than others.

    But hey, it’s your life. If you think that you need to look up kitten kickers before you buy, go ahead, if it makes you feel better. Nobody, including Tim, will blame you for that. After all, it’s a free country :)

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  221. 228

    By patient @ 20:

    Arguing with Kary is like analyzing the reason for existence, it only leads to more questions with a risk for resulting insanity. Clever to put the breaks on while you still have the wits.

    Does that make you feel better?

    Next time maybe try to contribute a halfway intelligent thought, if that is possible.

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  222. 229
    whatsmyname says:

    By Matt the Engineer @ 221:

    By whatsmyname @ 209:
    My kids don’t commute.

    Sure they do. Even if you have a stay-at-home parent or nanny, surely they come with you to the store, or to friends’ homes, or to the movies, etc. City life means walking to most of these things, or if you drive then driving at slow speeds. Speed kills, and speed is the rule in the suburbs – they were designed for it.

    1. The context of Tim’s comment is one to two hours per day.
    2. You only go to stores, friends, and movies you can walk to?
    3. There are no fast arterials in the city?
    I grew up in the city. I have friends with kids in the city. There may be marginally more family driving here, but not by much. The “commute” thing is cute, but it’s bs.

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  223. 230
    whatsmyname says:

    By Sam Ferris @ 26:

    What is unclear, there is an INVERSE relationship being near registered kitten kickers vs. being the victim of a new violent love crime as if a RSO is stupid enough to commit a crime near where he lives then he is so stupid that has probably already been caught. .

    Isn’t “already been caught” the reason he is an RSO in the first place?

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  224. 231
    One Eyed Man says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 226

    Sam, I never said living near registered kitten kickers was either more or less risky. I merely observed that there were no statistics presented by anyone as to the number of molestation incidents when registered kitten kickers were located in the area and whether that differed from environments where they weren’t living in the area. You present a logical argument based upon the premise (assumption) that registered offenders are not stupid and therefore wouldn’t commit a crime in their own neighborhood. That may be true, but there hasn’t been any statistical evidence presented on either side of the argument to show based upon some form of quantitative analysis whether it is or is not.

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  225. 232
    LeftOverpricedSeattle says:

    By The Tim @ 24:

    By LeftOverpricedSeattle @ 223:
    …being an owner or renter plays no role in whether you are approved for an adoption or not.

    That’s correct. I never said that our decision to own was because we need to for adoption. Some other commenters have misunderstood what I said if that’s what they thin.

    What I said was that our previous home (a below-market rental) was not up to the necessary standards, so we were going to have to move. Since we were moving anyway, the decision to buy was based on the simple buy-vs-rent financial comparison. In the neighborhoods and home types we were interested in, it was cheaper to buy than to keep renting, so the decision was fairly easy.

    As I hope I made clear, I wasn’t implying that you were making statements that were untrue (because I didn’t see where you had ever said that adoption was for “owners only”), only that some posters had made that assumption and I felt it needed to be clarified “for the record”, as it were. As you point out, the rent vs. buy comparison made owning a better option for the area(s) you had on your list of “wanting to live” areas. I am back in the Seattle area again, but am most definitely in an area where renting is still a lot cheaper than buying (much to my landlord’s chagrin no doubt!). I have my own reasons for living where I am at right now and for now, it still makes the most financial sense for me to rent.

    Again, congrats on the impending fatherhood (which is more exciting for me, as a long time SB reader, to read about than the house purchase, lol!).

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  226. 233
    Sam Ferris says:

    By One Eyed Man @ 31:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 226

    Sam, I never said living near registered kitten kickers was either more or less risky. I merely observed that there were no statistics presented by anyone as to the number of molestation incidents when registered kitten kickers were located in the area and whether that differed from environments where they weren’t living in the area. You present a logical argument based upon the premise (assumption) that registered offenders are not stupid and therefore wouldn’t commit a crime in their own neighborhood. That may be true, but there hasn’t been any statistical evidence presented on either side of the argument to show based upon some form of quantitative analysis whether it is or is not.

    Two statistics are in fact known:

    1) Only 5 percent of new violent love crimes will be committed by RSO’s
    2) Only 10 percent of new violent love crimes will be committed by someone unknown to the victim.

    Even if ALL RSO’s were eliminated, you would only have 1 in 20 less violent love crimes. Because in any given area you will have a ratio of something like 700,000 RSOs vs. 260 million population (I think) so lets say 1 in 300 people are RSO’s you have 299 that commit 19 violent love offenses and 1 that will commit 1 new violent love offense. Is your risk increased by living near the 1 or the 299? Your risk cannot possibly be greater then 5 percent more even is you assume that the RSO will not travel. Lets say 90 percent will travel and 10 percent of RSO will not (a very high figure for the non traveling imho) then you have .5 percent chance of living near a non traveling RSO. At best your risk is 1 out of 200 greater. So if the average risk is 100 your risk is 100.5. Statistically insignificant. That means if everyone has a 1 percent chance to be a violent love crime victim then living near an RSO makes your risk 1.05 percent. If you increase the number of RSO’s you are near you still have to increase the number of non-RSO’s you live near, multiple RSO’s will only add risk if they are concentrated in greater then 1 out of 300 persons numbers, assuming 1 out of 300 americans are RSO’s.

    Seems that living near others would be a lot more statistically significant, i.e. if you live in a rural area you would be less likely to be a violent love crime victim. Also as knowing the perv is a strong indicator, then the fewer people your child knows the less risk.

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  227. 234
    Sam Ferris says:

    By whatsmyname @ 30:

    By Sam Ferris @ 26:
    What is unclear, there is an INVERSE relationship being near registered kitten kickers vs. being the victim of a new violent love crime as if a RSO is stupid enough to commit a crime near where he lives then he is so stupid that has probably already been caught. .

    Isn’t “already been caught” the reason he is an RSO in the first place?

    Ya, I worded that poorly, I meant that he is so stupid that he will have been apprehended so easy that he is most likely in jail again. Like the guy in the wheel chair who offers $400 to his nurse to bring him a child, or the guy who rapes a child in a supermarket one asile away from his parents.

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  228. 235
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 234
    I know, but for him to be back in jail again, he would have to at least attempt to re-offend. BTW, I hadn’t heard about the child in the supermarket. Was this a city supermarket that someone could walk to?

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  229. 236
    Sam Ferris says:

    RE: whatsmyname @ 35

    http://www.dreamindemon.com/2010/12/03/registered-violent love-offender-accused-of-raping-toddler-at-dollar-tree-store/

    I guess it was dollar tree store.

    Ok here is your answer if 1 in 300 is an RSO. And RSO’s commit 1 in 20 new violent love crimes you need 16 non RSO’s to equal the chance of them committing a new violent love crime as one RSO, roughly. So if you assume than no one will travel to commit a violent love crime then living near 16 non RSO’s is the same as living near 1 RSO’s. Once you assume travel then it matters not where you live.

    That is kinda shocking that living near 16 “normal” people is just as bad as living near 1 RSO, if no one will travel to commit a violent love crime, But that’s the statistical fact.

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  230. 237
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 36
    I am very, very sorry I asked.

    Beyond that, there are several problems I have with your argument.

    The first is that I am hugely dubious about a study that says most criminal recidivism is 60%, but for kitten kickers it is only 5%. (lies, golly lies, and statistics) It makes no sense on the face of it.

    The second is that traveling may be a limited option for a number of probably underemployed RSO’s, plus you have to expect the compulsive nature of this activity may mean crimes of opportunity most likely will be associated with where the person most often is located.

    Third, if I accept your numbers that 1 RSO equal 16 others, I do not have the choice of either /or, but more probably I have the 1 RSO plus 16 others, thereby doubling my chances for problems.

    I’m not even one who looked into this before buying; but I would consider it a negative factor (especially if I was having the family walk everywhere)

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  231. 238
    BillE says:

    By Sam Ferris @ 26:

    How could you assume that an RSO is to stupid or lazy to get in a car and drive to another location to commit a crime?

    The fact that they’ve committed violent love crimes is enough for me to believe that they may not think rationally. They may be bright enough to be manipulative or crafty, but their willingness to commit a violent love crime says a lot about their decision making.
    There’s also a lot of kitten kickers who aren’t functioning with 100% mental capacity because of either mental illness or disability.

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  232. 239

    By BillE @ 38:

    By Sam Ferris @ 26:
    How could you assume that an RSO is to stupid or lazy to get in a car and drive to another location to commit a crime?

    The fact that they’ve committed violent love crimes is enough for me to believe that they may not think rationally. They may be bright enough to be manipulative or crafty, but their willingness to commit a violent love crime says a lot about their decision making.
    There’s also a lot of kitten kickers who aren’t functioning with 100% mental capacity because of either mental illness or disability.

    So what we need is a data source that tracks kitten kickers by IQ. ;-)

    I think the one kitten kicker in my neighborhood looks smarter than most of those in Tim’s neighborhood, so now I have even more reason to feel safe for the children in the neighborhood.

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  233. 240
    Sam Ferris says:

    By whatsmyname @ 37:

    RE: Sam Ferris @ 36
    I am very, very sorry I asked.

    Beyond that, there are several problems I have with your argument.

    The first is that I am hugely dubious about a study that says most criminal recidivism is 60%, but for kitten kickers it is only 5%. (lies, “golly” lies, and statistics) It makes no sense on the face of it.

    The second is that traveling may be a limited option for a number of probably underemployed RSO’s, plus you have to expect the compulsive nature of this activity may mean crimes of opportunity most likely will be associated with where the person most often is located.

    Third, if I accept your numbers that 1 RSO equal 16 others, I do not have the choice of either /or, but more probably I have the 1 RSO plus 16 others, thereby doubling my chances for problems.

    I’m not even one who looked into this before buying; but I would consider it a negative factor (especially if I was having the family walk everywhere)

    Well its the kitten kicker rate is over maybe like 5 years or so, and for a violent love CRIME (i.e. if a RSO commits a robbery thats not shown), 60 percent no doubt includes parole violations as well. But the fact is that the recidivism rate for kitten kickers is only higher then murders and lower then everything else, that’s from DOJ statistics. Still the inability to get a job, live where we want etc. will force people into crime but again if its not a violent love CRIME then its not shown in the figures I give. And 60percent for other crimes like stealing is not all that surprising, guy shoplifts $100 item, he gets out in a few weeks or a month and doesn’t care if he goes to jail for another month or so. Plus that includes drug possession type crimes, people who are addicted to drugs could care less about the legal system. Its not the recidivism rate that I rely upon mostly anyway, and that’s not really that important to you, it’s the percentage of new violent love crimes that are committed by RSO’s. Lets say the recidivism rate was 100 percent yet RSO’s committed only 1 in 1000 new violent love crimes, the recidivism rate would be meaningless in assessment of your risk.

    Ya you double your risk if you have 1 RSO and 16 normal people. And that not illogical. You can always test theory by taking extremes. If you were on a desert island and knew no one then your risk of being a victim of a violent love crime is almost zero …. If your child was taken care of by 100 people for 15 minutes a day each he clearly would be way more at risk then if he was cared for by 2 people 12 hours a day each. Thus the more people who have access to your child the greater the risk. Thus the more people who live near you the greater the risk.

    But this is a shocking statistic, if you go out 1/2 mile from where you are that’s what 100,000’s of people in most metropolitan areas as a complete guess. Living near 16,000 normal people is like living near 1000 RSO’s ….

    No one would even consider living in the middle of 1000 RSO’s but no one would bat an eye at being surrounded by 16,000 normal people. Yet the risk is the same.

    I’m going to run my figures by the California kitten kicker Management Board, and guy who I know is a professional at statistics.

    But its logical, if 19 out of 20 new violent love crimes are committed by normal people then some number of normal people will equal the same risk as one RSO’s who commit one out of 20 new violent love crimes.

    Just note for yourself all these sting operations where people travel to met someone they think is underage who turns out to be an undercover cop, by far and away those caught are not registered kitten kickers.

    http://sexoffenderresearch.blogspot.com/2011/06/32-arrested-in-child-violent love-sting.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FrEMt+%28violent love+Offender+Research+by+A+Voice+of+Reason%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

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  234. 241
    maxrommel says:

    Tim’s Everett neighborhood is a train wreck when it comes to crime. I would never walk through it, but I’d drive through going maybe 90. Maybe.

    Max

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  235. 242
    Sam Ferris says:

    I was a bit off, its 1 to 32 and there is only 16,660 within 1/2 mile in San Fransico. Here is the updated info that I send to the California kitten kicker Managment Board:

    http://samdeathwalker.com/forum/showthread.php?p=333#post333

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  236. 243

    […] 242 comments, 06/21: The kitten kicker Bogeyman […]

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