Spotted the sign pictured at right in a KOMO News story about Occupy Seattle protesters disrupting the weekly courthouse steps foreclosure auction on Saturday at the King County Courthouse.
I’ll let the sign speak for itself, but I will say that I really don’t understand the connection these protesters appear to be making. Other signs at the protest:
- “STOP ROBBIN’ OUR HOODS!”
- “STOP ILLEGAL FORECLOSURES”
- “NO MORE Foreclosures in OUR WA!”
- “BANKERS LIED, ECONOMY DIED”
- “Fund the needy, Not the greedy”
- “BANKS TERRORISTS WORSE THAN AL QAEDA”
- “HOMELAND SECURITY NEEDS TO DEFEND MY HOME”
How are foreclosures equivalent to corporate greed, theft, and terrorism?
Rate this post:
00
By Ira Sacharoff @ 99:
That wouldn’t happen until 2048.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By David Losh @ 96:
When the loan was made, somebody paid out $500,000 to the previous homeowner to purchase the home worth $500,000 (for example). Who paid this money out and why would they turn around and sell the note for less than $500,000 to the banks?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It seems to me that mortgages were funded through a fraudulent financing scheme perpetrated by investment banks, rating agencies, and mortgage originators. Most buyers were not fully aware of this scheme, and made risky home-buying decisions based on an assumption that there were no structural flaws underpinning the credit market. So while there was no direct theft, I think it is perfectly reasonable to view what happened as a form of indirect theft.
And frankly, I feel the worst for families with children that bought during the bubble, not because they were trying to make a quick buck off of the market, but because they had significantly less tolerence for shady landlords and less mobility. This is just one kind of situation that I think Tim can’t even begin to grasp when he advocates letting the “free” market do its work.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: tomtom @ 102 – The main reason for a discount would be a change in interest rate–up. Many notes are probably sold at a premium today.
If you’re dealing with a package of notes, they might have some sort of a default allowance included.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 80 –
Credit card rates are up, bank fees are up. Let’s split some hairs, shall we?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 25 –
Sorry, Ira, the surviving big banks were not bailed out, barring Citicorp.
As a former re lender, I could only imagine the outrage if, in 2005, the banks had stopped the mortgage lending, due to questionable valuations and underwriting standards. Could you imagine the outrage of the reic? The POTUS, Congress, Fannie & Freddie, HUD, et al…were crowing about the ‘Ownership Society’.
Make no mistake, the greedy realtors, greedy appraisers, greedy investors, greedy monolines, greedy ratings agencies, greedy pension fund managers chasing yield, sleeping regulators of all sorts….were just as responsible for this bubble and it’s ensuing crash, as the bad, evil, dirty, filthy bankers.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Macro Investor @ 74 –
Really Macro…you should be honest with yourself…the so called robo-signing scandal is nothing but a shakedown mechanism for the states to help solve their budget woes, with the AGs high-fiving each other and shouting ‘SHOW ME THE MONEY’. It appears they are going to get between $25 – $30B, a job well done. The sticking point is that the AGs want to continue going back to the $well$ but the bankers want to cement it shut.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By Dirty Renter @ 106:
I completely agree that the lenders were not solely responsible for the bubble, and other parties played big parts, but Citibank is not the only surviving big bank that was bailed out:
Last I checked, Bank of American was pretty big, so is JP Morgan Chase, and so is Wells Fargo:
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 108 –
I gave BAC a pass because The Bernank wouldn’t let them back out of the Merrill deal. :)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Anyone with an ounce of equity plus a mailbox experienced regular (ongoing) invitations to engage with predatory lenders. Some missed out on all this teethbreakin stuff but to suggest that it didn’t happen or millions of folks were stupid is one-eyed hindsight: it’s recent history rewritten. The enormous paintbrush lumping all underwater home owners as “greedy” suggests virtually anythang professed here today is questionable real estate koolaid and we should be thankful that seasoned contributors offered counterpoint. Thanks, you guys.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Sorry if this point has been made. tl:dr
It’s as simple as contractual fraud. The banks/gov are stealing the homes because they inflated the values of the assets through monetary and other regulatory policy, then fraudulently induced nice folks into borrowing gobs of money (from the same banks/gov) to purchase these inflated assets.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: thinkchip @ 111 – So when these nice folks who were fraudulently induced into borrowing more than they could afford to pay back inevitably stop paying back the loans, how is it “theft” for the bank to repossess the house that was purchased with the aforementioned borrowed money?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: The Tim @ 12 – Racket (crime), a systematised element of organized crime.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Where has the idea of personal responsibility gone? Many people deserve to lose their homes, not be bailed out on my dime – this is the only way we will return to equilibrium.
While banks and bad government policy are partially to blame, so are borrowers. If these borrowers were prudent and did not take loans, CDOs could not have been created.
PREDATORY BORROWERS is a term that needs more airplay. I have heard the argument made they were not finance majors – in that case they should have looked at the traditional mortgage model (30 yr fixed, 20% down). If they could not afford that, they should not have taken the loan and purchased the house. Many others were liar loans or knew outright they could not afford the loan, they took it anyway and planned on flipping the house for profit.
The fact is, people got caught being greedy. When homes were appreciating rapidly and being sold windfalls, they were not sharing the profits with the banks or the taxpayers – they should now have to eat the entirety of the consequences on the downside.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: sally buttons @ 110 –
Yep, the good old “devil made me do it” is still alive and well.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Hahaha, I first didn’t understand what “Who Is Home Will U Steal Today” meant.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: The Tim @ 112 –
You should read the comments before being cocky.
You have a job today in a precarious field. You may be able to get another job, but maybe not. I talk with hundreds of people who don’t have the jobs they did when they purchased the home.
There again there are choices you have to make when you have kids. Should you continue to drop money into the black hole of a mortgage, for no return, as far as I can see, ever, or pay for your kids education rather than have them take on debt?
All because lenders inflated the price of everything in the economy by easy payment plans.
Let’s pretend you are a very smart guy. You have done all the right things. You saved your money, you waited, you put down an obscene amount of moeny as a “down payment” to make the bank feel better, and they just turn around to sell that “premium” loan.
You lose money every month in the price of the property. Over the next five years builders wise up, and go back to building apartments or rental income units. Rents follow the housing bubble, and that wise purchase that you waited, and saved for is just another place for you to maintain.
Everything your grand pa told you is no longer true because we over built, changed land use, and building codes to be able to double the number of housing units quickly. In the mean time that rental income continues to chug along, and more people enter that end of the market place.
You missed the boat. You made a mistake. Your life is now filled with a job you are grateful to have to save for things that go with the life you chose.
I’m sorry, I want more. I’m sorry but every dollar of mine is working for a return. I think only an idiot would have money in the bank, or build a worthless portfolio based on paper. The game is rigged for guys like me, and I’m coming to take anything you might hold dear.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: quinn @ 103 –
Good for you!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: tomtom @ 102 –
This is simple. yes, the seller got paid. Most of the time they had a mortgage that was also satisfied. This cleared a lot of loans.
The lender borrows the money to make the loan. It’s a mill that got stopped, and that’s how we had a crash. A lot of lenders, and insurers of lenders defaulted. That’s where we hear the term “bail out.”
It all has to do with, number one, interest income. That was free money paid back at a higher rate than the rate that the money was borrowed for by the lender. That goes over to the side. It’s a real profit.
The phantom paper profit was in bundling these loans and selling them as financial instruments.
Let me try this another way. When a lender borrows at a discount it’s easy to get a return. Even if the property sells for fifty cents on the dollar it sells for real money, enough to continue to service the cheap debt. The remaining money is lent again for consumer credit, it buys other Notes, it invests in other companies that insure other debt. The lender is in the business of having money make money, and they do make money.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 115 – Churchbells all say: Millions of people got jacked! Nasty is poverty’s condemnation or schadenfreude for friends/neighbors/family/etc. who got jacked.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: sally buttons @ 120 –
Even more nasty is lack of personal responsibility that is becoming a norm and has huge costs to the society.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: quinn @ 103 –
Amen.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 121 – I guess you are right. F ‘em all.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 121 –
Funny! Yeah, that there personal responsibility.
I’m a guns, and gold bunker dweller from way back. Being fiscally conservative had it’s day in the 1980s. Beyond that you are just talking trash.
You can have a million dollars today, and it’s worthless. You can pay all of your debt, be debt free, and invest in micro lending programs. You will get nowhere, slowly.
This building wealth slowly hit the road in the 1990s with the tech dot com expansion. Once you hit 1998 and beyond, you need to be global, because the economy is global.
You want to be a backwater low life? Fine, do that. Tell me about your money and call me in another year, you may want to do something.
The heroes take from the bank, and invest for themselves. Give the banks nothing, but they are the major players in the game. They steal, you need to steal more.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
There’s really a wide range of situations people are in. At one extreme you have someone who lied on their credit application to get a loan that any moron would know they couldn’t afford. At the other you have someone who was doing just fine until they got T-boned by someone running a red light.
And overlaid against that is the fact that there’s a wide range of education and intelligence. Some people know what they were doing was risky, and others didn’t.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: David Losh @ 24 –
God bless you, Dave.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By David Losh @ 24:
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 127 –
Been waiting for you man. How’s that dead plat build em up going for you. Are you seeing some screamin’ deals out there?
You’re exactly what these people are looking for. Big time operators wanting to make a fast buck on misery.
Profits increased 25%, thanks for asking.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 27 –
Oh, wait, as long as we are sharing this special moment; I’m making a presentation tomorrow to a group of Japanese business people, about cleaning.
Go figure, cleaning, a global business opportunity.
Always fun to have your keen insight on the under belley of Real Estate.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: David Losh @ 128 – Those dastardly banks sold plats to people who made money on them! There is none left BTW. :) Have fun with the japanese cleaners. :) Japanese Maids for Hire is a new brand I hear waiting to explore.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 130 –
You’re right there are none left. Sundquist has a lot under contract waiting for the $500K buyers. I see all of South Everett is ready to pop.
The banks made money at the developers expense, Some, I hear, took a nasty hair cut.
Now I’ve been cleaning up a few builder messes lately. The builders are looking a little shaky, but you seem to be doing alright.
What I keep saying is that the buyers must be idiots. I mean you must be looking at the absolute brain dead to plunk down money on these depreciating “assets.”
So, yeah, every body can make a buck. It all depends on how you want to do it.
And its Seattle House Cleaning, House Cleaning Seattle, Seattle House Cleaners, House Cleaners Seattle, A Spring Cleaning, Spring Cleaning Seattle, Seattle Condo Cleaning, Condo Cleaning Seattle, Seattle Janitorial, Seattle House Painting, dot com, along with some others. Thanks for letting me get a plug in there.
The Japanese business model is what I was just researching. It’s interesting that they sell products along with the services. They combine services, and do all kinds of work. Tomorrow we’ll be talking about Residential, Commercial, and Industrial Cleaning. They do it all in one corporation.
Sorry kid, but Real Estate is dead. I’m putting a team together for next year, but it is simply to offer people the help they need to get rid of their property. There are much more profitable ways to make a buck.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: David Losh @ 131 – Nice keep us all updated on your extensive portfolio of domain names and your endeavors in putting “teams” together. BTW Select is sold out of $600k homes next to Sundquist and almost at Bentley. So is Shelton/Erin etc…
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 132 –
Wow! I’m impressed. That’s kind of like the multiple offers of million dollar homes in East Bellevue. They tell me those interest rates are so low it’s a great time to buy.
Margins seem to be a little thinner though.
I still say that if a builder were smart they would follow the older Glover Homes business model of generating rental income for the long haul.
Adapt, or die trying.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
dont stop you two..I got the popcorn out………
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ray Pepper @ 34 – I had mine out from the point of his blabber on page 1 with 2kt. :) Almost got a bag done.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 35 –
I no longer drink tea when I read Dave.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By David Losh @ 19:
RE: 2kt @ 36 –
Now, here’s the Nobel prize winner if I ever saw one.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Then there are the people like in this anecdote:
Two recent SU graduates visit a development one Saturday in summer 2007. They like it and begin talking about getting a mortgage with the onsite lender. They go back and forth with the lender who says they should get an ARM and they insist they want a fixed-rate. He gives them a hard sell but they don’t back down It ends up they will take a week to think about it and come back the following Saturday having agreed that they want the place but need some time and the lender tells them he will have the paperwork all ready the next week if they decide they want to take the plunge. The following Saturday they come back and they lender has a big stack of paper for them ready to sign on various pages. They ask if it’s for a fixed rate mortgage and he says sure it is. They tell him they’d like to take it aside and look at it, he says don’t worry about it it’s all just boilerplate stuff. They insist on looking through it and take it aside and lo and behold, buried within all the “boilerplate” is the ARM that he wanted to sell them. So they bail on it. But the lender was attempting perpertrate a blatant fraud on them. Seems like along with “personal responsibility” you just shouldn’t trust anyone at all anytime. Including maybe yourself, unless you’re certain you know yourself and your true intentions.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 36 – RE: mukoh @ 35 –
There again why would people pay a mortgage at all in this day, and age? Why would people keep a property when cash can generate so much more cash than a property will ever pay them?
You don’t want to believe that lending is to blame for a global economic collapse? Fine, it was the people buying option ARMS. It makes no difference it’s done.
Millions of people are out of work. The economy you knew isn’t coming back. The Tea Party won’t fix Europe. More foreclosures won’t generate more profits. Construction is going the way of fishing, and timber.
It’s done.
Right now the Republican Party is making a lot of noise about how it can all be fixed by lowering taxes, and getting rid of regulations. That won’t do anything. We are way past the era of when we could lower a 50%, or 70% tax bracket.
If you guys have some better idea then educate me. If you think it’s all coming back, or going back to the way it was then outline that for me.
Telling me your fantasies about how the debt market works isn’t a reality. The reality has been explained a dozen times here, more eloquently than I have. Educate me about how sticking it out, or buying into a dream is going to get us past this level of poverty.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 37 –
Educate me.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I’m rather shocked to agree with David Losh, and to so vehemently disagree with Tim. I’ve been following this site diligently since at least 2008, and this post (of Tim’s) makes me wonder if he’s jumped the shark.
It is obvious both borrowers and banks (or lenders, whatever) were engaged in fraudulent (or equivalent, sorry Kary) behavior, and since 2008 the taxpayers have been paying for that behavior.
I hope my stance is clear:
1. Borrowers should face their pain via timely foreclosure and destruction of their credit record
2. lenders should face their pain via write-offs and corresponding hit to the balance sheet and thus stock price
3. assets (or houses, or property, whatever) should be have a market value defined at auction, or some other market-clearing action, where all non-interested parties may participate at the individual parcel level, and obviously the property get transferred to the highest bidder
Is this really rocket science????
As a potential home buyer (since 2007) I’m enormously pi**ed off that I’ve had to put off my dreams of mature grape vines and plentiful fruit trees for four plus years with no end in sight.
In the meantime, these weird posts seem only to drive up traffic. Can someone please enlighten me if I’m incorrect?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By ChrisM @ 141:
Hmm, I am confused. which part of my post or my comments has led you to believe that I disagree with any of that?
In fact I agree 100% with your points. All I was saying in this post was that I don’t understand the connection the protesters are trying to make between foreclosure and theft. If you stop paying your mortgage, you lose your home.
I’m proposing no additional penalties for borrowers and a $10M per instance fine for banks that screw up foreclosures and somehow people seem to think that I am pro-bank. I don’t get it.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 135 –
now that is funny…………I’m serious…the last line “almost got a bag done” is hilarious.
After reading idiotic posts I will now begin to respond with this clip after each one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqFO-Udq6s
We are all friends anyway………………………….Are we not?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ray Pepper @ 143 –
or this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytbDZrw1jc&NR=1
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: The Tim @ 142 –
The OWS movement is about economic injustice. It’s not a direct comparison, it’s an indirect comparison:
Wall Street made bad decisions and got scads of money. Bank executives got huge cashouts for driving their companies into the ground. These same bankers wail and caterwaul about raising the top marginal rate 3%. They claim class warfare at any kind of higher taxes. Then they tell us we have to share the pain, and everyone has to take a paycut, and reduced services. Hell, let’s raise the retirement age by 3 years. No big deal, right?
Everyday people made bad decisions. In some cases, they also got fired and laid off indirectly because of stupid business practices on Wall St. They got… nothing. Except the promis of more pain.
Why is this tough to understand? It’s not just that foreclosures are going through, it’s that the banks took OUR money, and then used it to pad their fat bank accounts instead of any kind of mortgage modification. It’s the comaprison of how the financial elite are treated, and how everyday citizens are treated. There is no leeway, no concern, no rescue for the average citizen.
Tim, it’s as simple as one of their slogans: they got bailed out, we got sold out. You respond saying, “well, I wish the banks got some pain too.” And “I would’ve let them fail.” But that doesn’t matter, Tim, because they DIDN’T. They’re getting away scot free. You’re surprised people are protesting this?
Rate this comment:
0 
0
Ahh, Tim, another one of your ridiculous posts where you act incredulous that people are mad at the banking and real estate industries that brought our country’s economy to it’s knees. Why on earth would people be mad at the entities that got ‘bailouts,’ and afterwords have done virtually nothing except continue to give their CEO’s golden parachutes and corporate bonus pay?
Those angry people should just be happy that the banks got bailed out with their money, because, according to the bankers and politicians, it could be a lot worse!
I agree with you that not all of the signs make perfect sense (this is probably to be expected in any group of protesters), but the underlying basis for the anger is unquestionably justified.
It’s posts like these that made me decide not to donate to your fund drive.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: masaba @ 146 –
OK I get to use this now….This is from Tim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yytbDZrw1jc&NR=1
also this: TIGHT WAD!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ray Pepper @ 47 –
Great comeback, Ray. Way to contribute.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By masaba @ 146:
Again, you (and other commenters) are reading things into my post and comments that simply are not there.
I have neither said nor implied that I am “incredulous that people are mad at the banking and real estate industries.” I have railed against both quite frequently myself.
All I said in this post was that I do not understand the logic that equates foreclosures with corporate greed, theft, and terrorism. If you stop paying your mortgage why shouldn’t you forfeit the house? That’s not pro-bank, it’s just common sense.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: The Tim @ 149 –
You don’t understand why people are mad that the banks were bailed out (with taxpayer money) and they were left to be foreclosed upon? You don’t get that? You don’t understand how that would feel like theft to some people?
Honestly, I feel like I have been robbed simply because my tax money went to bailout Wall Street, which in turn resulted in more million dollar CEO bonuses.
Perhaps the sign should just say: ‘This is Bullchocolate’
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: masaba @ 150 – Where have I said that I don’t understand why people are angry with banks? I totally get it, and I have said over and over in this thread that I agree, and I’m angry with the banks as well.
I just disagree that “banks suck and bank bailouts suck” equals “borrowers who stop paying their mortgage should get to keep their home.”
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I think people are reading The Tim wrong here. He’s an engineer, and engineers sometimes come off like Vulcans on Star Trek. The logic shows, but not the compassion. I never read Tim say that he feels bad for all the people who have been foreclosed on, and I’m sure he does feel that way, but the dude’s an engineer, and instead of saying how he knows how horrible it is for those going through foreclosure, he presents his logical plan to fine banks who illegally foreclosed, but wouldn’t fine those who’ve been foreclosed.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ray Pepper @ 144 – I love it. This is a blast to read thru DL.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: doug @ 45 – How much of YOUR personal money was taken by the banks to make money with?
OWS is a hogwash of earthies, hippies, who think just because someone makes $300K+ a year needs to share it with all the kind and caring people who never made even half that.
Nobody’s home is getting taken away if they make their payment (some select cases do not count). YOU ARE TAKING MY HOME! Should be changed to THEY ARE TAKING MY HOME AS I HAVEN’T PAID FOR IT IN MONTHS!.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 152 –
Sorry, Ira, but I am also an engineer.
The government collected our tax money. The government then bailed out the wealthy bankers with that tax money, while leaving others to be foreclosed upon and to go bankrupt. They did this mostly because the banks scared the chocolate out of everyone saying that without the bailout our entire economic system would collapse. A hefty amount of lobbying and political donations helped secure the bailout as well, I’m sure. The banks then used said money to pad the wallets of their CEOs.
This whole process feels like theft and extortion to some people; they are mad about it. Can’t say that I blame them, and the logic isn’t that hard to follow.
Tim claims that he agrees with every part of this, except that he doesn’t understand how some folks can just carry a sign saying that it is robbery. Perhaps it is because writing what I said in the above paragraph on a sign would be a lot of work, especially for folks who don’t know the difference between ‘who’s and whose.’ :)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By masaba @ 155:
Well some people made it work:
(via BoingBoing)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
People are bringing their own pain to an ongoing movement protesting the uneven distribution of wealth. Corporations are confiscating the world’s resources and re-distributing the wealth. Large shareholders are becoming incredibly wealthy and this re-distribution is leaving more and more poverty worldwide. Our workforce at home is less and less able to compete in a global economy. Real estate was promoted by “news” media and experts, as you have reported, as a way to survive this economic downturn. Banks were partners in exploiting this fear. When the corporations are failing, they always seem to have enough money to buy our legislature and get a bailout as happened with the banking industry. This is the connection.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
I firmly believe justice prevails in the end, Sometimes it takes years, even decades, (Nazi war criminals?) but the past always seems to catch up with evil in the end. The real consequences of the bubble, general over-leveraging in the world’s economies, etc. have only begun to show up. Banks, governments, the “evil” 1%, all are still benefitting from delay and prolong tactics. But it’s increasingly evident those tactics are near the end of their effectiveness- this can isn’t going that much further down the road.
People the world over are already angry and destructive, yet the party hasn’t really even gotten started. A sustainable and healthy level of total government involvement in the U.S. economy is probably about half of what it is now. A lot of free cheese is going away soon. Think about the number of unhappy people that will breed and how they will express that anger. Look at the riots in Greece and France, the fist fights in european parliaments, etc. Plenty of “justice” lies ahead.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 154 –
Over $5000 if I multiply my portion of the nations tax receipts at that time by $700 billion.
Ad hominem attacks, that’s all you have? Here’s your argument in funnier form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8wLg5Asgo
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: mukoh @ 154 –
$288K the last time I counted.
You have a very simplistic view.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: The Tim @ 51 –
Let’s say you bought a house in 2003, better yet 1998 when prices were reasonable.
You watched the value go up, and made your payments. Let’s set aside that maybe you lost a job, or had financial hardship in 2007, 2008, and lost your home.
Let’s deal strictly with the numbers Your interest payments double the amount you pay for the property. When you get to a 15 year point, where the property really begins to amortize, your property is now worth the original asking price that you agreed to.
If you bought in the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s you did get an appreciated value. Today that’s all over. You have a net loss.
Real Estate is a business. Banks stand to make an absolute fortune from what you are going to pay them.
Yes, I think millions of people globally should stop paying. I’m not supposed to say that, but from a business stand point they should. People need to adapt. They were lied to, swindled, and compromised. They need to start taking back their financial freedoms by giving banks nothing. Give corporations nothing. Buy cheap, and put your money to work.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/in_downtown_portland_fears_tha.html
“Organizers of Occupy Portland say they fear as much as $20,000 donated to the group through a PayPal account has disappeared.
They also say the group’s finance committee has hijacked the demonstration’s Internet domain name and filed for incorporation against the wishes of the group’s decision-making body. “
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: ChrisM @ 162 – “WHO’S DOMAIN NAME WILL U STEAL TODAY”
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: ChrisM @ 162 –
http://greencpa.blogspot.com/2011/10/main-street-businesses-should-join-with.html
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: ChrisM @ 162 –
Can’t we all get along?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29jDI9flryU
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: ChrisM @ 162 –
I think they spent the WAD on Hack and Sacks. Everytime I drive by these movements in Seattle or Tacoma I see ALOT of Hack and Sack activity. Please someone look into this!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: ChrisM @ 62 – They should have put the money in a bank!
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By doug @ 159:
Doug, the following link will verify that the bank portion of TARP was only $200B. GM, Chrysler, Fannie & Freddie, & AIG, received the rest.
http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/
And of the $200B, only about half that number was needed by the banks. BNY, JPMorgan, Wells Fargo begrudgingly took the TARP to provide cover for CitiBank. IMHO, the reason C was saved was that it is our only truly international bank. It should be noted that the Treasury made money off the bank portion of TARP.
It’s too bad that the executives of the failed banks, Wachovia, Washington Mutual, Countrywide, Bear, Lehman & Merrill, et al, were not prosecuted or at least ‘made poor’ for their lack of judgement judgement. The current bashing of the surviving banks, who were managed more conservatively, is bad for current economy. Since there was no justice for the worst of the offenders, the survivors are now the target of the mob.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
It was all planned from the beginning:
“The basic point is that the recession of 2001 wasn’t a typical postwar slump, brought on when an inflation-fighting Fed raises interest rates and easily ended by a snapback in housing and consumer spending when the Fed brings rates back down again. This was a prewar-style recession, a morning after brought on by irrational exuberance. To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.”
http://azizonomics.com/2011/10/26/reinflating-the-housing-bubble/
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: David Losh @ 139 –
Dave, your ideas of massive defaults and wiping out of banking system would lead to chaos, massive civil unrest and violence. The problems are many and there are not any quick fixes, however the history shows the radical changes rarely bring good results.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: masaba @ 55 – I agree with this, except that wall street was not bailed out with tax money. It was bailed out with government debt that someone will have to pay back, sometime. And no I’m not talking about TARP which was largely paid back. I’m talking about buying up their toxic garbage at full value.
The logic seems to be that if one group of greedy idiots got bailed out, they all should. I disagree. None should. Today the errant buyers of the past should be paying rent to those who waited, the banks and auto industry should be under new ownership. The wise should now be in charge of the foolish.
I still claim that my family was more grievously harmed by this bubble than most by NOT buying. We have lived in intolerable conditions for 5 years while waiting for the market to drop to equilibrium. We never got to live in a dream house, we never got a bailout or assistance with our housing plight. We saw our share of the public debt swell and saw it used to systematically impede us from acquiring housing at a fair price. We lost a job due to an economic collapse to which we had no part in creating. We did not get a banker bonus. We were never acknowledged sympathetically by politicians.
The impact to us cannot be quanitified in dollars, only in pain, suffering, and lost opportunity for which we find ourselves the overlooked victims.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: 2kt @ 170 –
Exactly what we have.
The foreclosure system isn’t working well for the economy in general.
We do have massive defaults, and it will continue.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Hugh Dominic @ 171 –
Uh oh, will this go unchallenged?
Real Estate is a part of my business model so yes I’ve lost a lot of income. We’ll come out the other side, don’t worry about us.
It’s the idea that people who put life on hold came out worse that bothers me. Millions of people, actually billions if you think globally did all the things that we have all done for generations. People worked jobs, bought houses, and put kids in college, all with the idea that over time it will all get paid for. It’s been that way since the 1950s.
Now you want all those people who have lost all those dreams of a better future to pay attention to you.
I’m sorry you live in deplorable conditions, but do you really? How about the millions of people who were encouraged to take that chance, told the economy is strong, that the world is your oyster, and yet it was all a deliberate lie.
I’m talking about the people in Europe, and emerging markets, who will literally lose everything. That debt will become generational. People in emerging markets haven’t had the bubble collapse yet. How are they going to fair? Should we allow this corrupt, and brutal debt market system destroy them?
Just because a movement, here, targets the foreclosure system that is extremely manipulated, doesn’t mean that these protests have to do with who bought a house, and who waited. It’s just pointing out the dead canary in the mine shaft.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By Hugh Dominic @ 71:
That was the choice you made. Living in those conditions was what you wanted to do instead of risking a downward adjustment in value.
Last night I found something I created in August 2007, before we bought our new house, which was part of some overall financial planning I was doing then (not just related to buying a house). For the new house portion there was the following:
Advantages: “Would live in a nicer place” and “Will lock in tax gain exclusion on old house.”
Disadvantage: “Prices are high right now–downside risk.”
For you the risk of prices dropping kept you where you were, because that was more of a concern for you. For me the reverse.
Of course I had one other bid advantage to moving: “Move further away from Ira!” ;-)
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Dirty Renter @ 168 –
Thanks for the schooling on how the funds were disbursed, DR! Buying trillions in garbage assets through QE will probably end up costing us, too. Either way, between QE 1 and 2, TARP, and the proposed (and state-level enacted laws) laws for austerity to pay for tax cuts for the rich, you can see where the priority appears to have been.
I can’t say that I agree 100% with the OWS crowd. It’s just easy to see where they’re coming from.
I think that a combination of cutting some spending (mostly military adventurism and the cost controls in the ACA), raising some tax rates slightly and getting rid of some kickbacks and loopholes (yes, mortgage interest exemption included) would solve a lot of our problems.
Also, we should continue to keep the banks honest via capitalization limits. None of these things should be THAT hard to do.
I don’t want to sieze anyone’s wealth just because they’re well off.
However, wealth has been steadily accumulated by the richest portion of the country at the expense of the middle and lower classes. This speaks to the fact that the wealthy generally hoard their money far more than everyone else. Since the economy does well when money is MOVING, it seems clear that we need to somehow skim some money (with higher taxes) in order to provide jobs for the poor and middle class, and stimulate spending. This is what will lead to wealth and product creation, and a strong economy.
Even Adam Smith thought the rich would see the need and moral obligation of the rich to provide the bare minimum for the poor,(in this case, providing them with jobs and donating to the general wellfare.) He underestimated their isolation and entitlement.
There are several lessons to be learned from the financial crisis, some liberal and some conservative. One thing I thought was crystal clear was that economy is primarily demand-driven. That when demand craters, so goes the economy, no matter HOW much money and supply capability exists.
But then I see stuff like Rick Perry’s 20% flat tax (with NO CAPITAL GAINS TAXES). And I just about despair.
We’ll never learn anything.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: doug @ 159 – Doug, just FYI if you are under $90k a year bracket your share of that is puny compared to someone who pays 30% after going over $208k. So trust me you didn’t pay exactly 5k. Top earners in the 10% contributed to well over 65% of the taxes.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By Kary L. Krismer @ 74:
Exactly. How about we all live with the consequences of our choices, and stop claiming special status and exemption from consequences because we are victims? Or get a bailout due to the impact on others of our own failure?
This country is founded on those principles. You can take a risk and be right and it should pay off. If you’re wrong, you lose. So be careful, and be smart.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By David Losh @ 73:
Not really. I don’t remember getting any sympathy or help when I was on the outside of the market and not making huge paper gains, either. I just want everyone to stop hypocritically looking for help now that things didn’t turn out like they hoped. I’d like them to pay for their imprudence. My biggest regret is that there is no way to recapture the personal salaries, bonuses, and gains that were paid out earlier in the process.
No you’re not. You’re a racist and you want the whites to suffer and be driven out of your neighborhoods.
“I was told houses always go up in value! I was duped! I demand compensation!”. If you believe you are a victim of fraud, please name the alleged perpetrator and use our courts. If your perpetrator was “the system” or “whitey” then I wish you luck.
Yes the foreclosure system has been extremely manipulated. Note holders have been delayed and prevented from access to their collateral as new laws were written to change the foreclosure process ex post facto.
The effect on those who waited has been the manipulation maintains higher prices for longer by limiting market activity. The protesters want more of that manipulation. Thus more waiting. Thus the protests oppose me.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
By Hugh Dominic @ 77:
I can’t say I disagree, but I would again point out this [President Obama's refinance plan] isn’t really intended to help the homeowner. It’s intended to help President Obama by stimulating the economy (and perhaps getting a few votes from those taking advantage of the program).
Edit: Bracketed material added because I didn’t realize what thread I was in when posting.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
RE: Hugh Dominic @ 178 –
You had me at deplorable conditions.
OK you didn’t take advantage of any opportunities that were presented to you, and now you want to be compensated for being a good boy. Tim wants to be compensated; let’s throw a whole bunch of people under the bus who waited patiently.
OK, now you have what you wanted. There is a total, global, economic collapse. Is it just like you pictured it, or is it still manipulated? Uh oh, maybe you should wait some more.
The alternative is to jump in like Tim did to buy in the middle of an extremely questionable market place, making an extremely questionable “deal,” but relying on his own research. He is the only one to blame.
So, you have choices again today, but you still want to complain about it. There are still opportunities today. Maybe you should wait some more.
Now about the protests, these are global. Here in the United States the target is Wall Street, which is a good place to start. In the news we are told it’s austerity in Greece. The German economy, or the Chinese are bailing out the Euro. The Euro is up, down, going away, or the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Here’s a fact, there are seven billion people in the world. They need to be fed daily. Your petty concerns don’t get seven billion people fed daily. A jobs program of refinance won’t feed seven billion people. The population of India is growing the fastest as I recall. They have a full on cast system, but were occupied by England, sounds lovely, but I’m thinking in time they will be in charge of the world’s economy.
Wait if you want, vilify me, blame somebody else, but the game is going to continue.
Rate this comment:
0 
0
[...] 180 comments, 10/24: "Who Is Home Will U Steal Today" [...]
Rate this comment:
0 
0