Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

54 responses to “Case-Shiller Tiers: All Three Tiers Fell Again in December”

  1. AndySeattle

    Buy today or be priced out forever?

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  2. MacroInvestor

    With the tight inventory, it does SEEM like prices will stop trickling lower in the next year or two. The gov and banks have had good luck hiding their losses and bailing each other out. So far.

    What’s happening in Europe shows what happens when no more debt can be piled on. It’s not pretty — great depression like unemployment, angry people with molotov cocktails.

    If you think the US can keep piling on debt forever with no limit, the next year or two may be a good time to buy. If they can’t and we hit the wall, it’s another 40% drop in housing. Guaranteed. Personally, that scares me like a game of Russian roulette. I’ll keep renting until things become more clear.

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  3. marksparky

    It’s interesting that high tier is dropping, too. Lots of articles keep saying that the continued house price declines overall are because of continued drag from the low end with foreclosures, but then say that higher-end neighborhoods are bucking that trend. However, as I watch anecdotally, the per square foot sale prices even in Madrona, Leschi and Madison Park continue to drift downward.

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  4. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: marksparky @ 3 – Keep in mind we’re not dealing with a static group of houses. As fewer high end houses sell, the level (quality?) of houses in the top tier drops.

    Thus, your anecdotal evidence may be better than the C-S stats, depending on what exactly you’re doing, because you’re addressing what’s happening with a particular style of house in specific neighborhoods.

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  5. softwarengineer

    RE: MacroInvestor @ 2

    It Seems Pragmatic Pessimism is Now Branded Extremist and Unscientific By a Lion’s Share of the Rich

    ABC news also reported in a scientific study yesterday that a lion’s share of the rich are unethical.

    Keep the faith, SWE believes you’re totally on the right path renting now. Some of the home buyers are correct too now, if ya got a big bag of cash to burn [not *unaffordable mortgage noose payments] and ya want a house….buy it, with SWE’s blessings.

    *unaffordable payments is clear to SWE, they gobble up more money than your current monthly rent, minus monthly property taxes and maintenance.

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  6. Kary L. Krismer

    By softwarengineer @ 5:

    ABC news also reported in a scientific study yesterday that a lion’s share of the rich are unethical.

    Not surprising. In my bankruptcy practice I represented both creditors and debtors. I didn’t find one group more ethical than the other. I did find though that less ethical debtors tended to deal with less ethical creditors in cases where there was actually face to face dealings (i.e. a lease and not just filling out a credit card application).

    So what I would ask, did they do a study on the ethics of poor people? Was the share of unethical poor people less than a lion’s share?

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  7. No Name Guy

    Quote from The Tim:
    “It definitely looks like the high tier will be the first to inch its way back up to zero. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it hit that point before June.”

    Perhaps…..but (only rhetorically asking) will it hold after the peak summer selling season?

    If I had to bet, I’d put a small wager that no, it won’t hold a flat YOY beyond the typical summer peak. The “bouncing ball” will resume a leg down in the fall of 2012 and it’ll drop to new post peak lows yet again. Especially once Europe implodes as Greece goes full on default (and the other PIIGS start following)….and the ECB LTRO / Bernake Stealth QE pumped stock market rolls over and pulls a repeat of 2008 – 2009. After all, those folks buying the high tier are the ones that own the stock market – market goes boom, high end housing goes boom with it.

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  8. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: No Name Guy @ 7 – I would agree with your point that a decline in the stock market would hurt the high end. Not clear though when Greece will blow up, although I do think it probably will at some point.

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  9. softwarengineer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 5

    Speaking of Property Taxes

    I own my house, so there’s no escrow on my Valentines Day King County property tax MASSIVE increase as follows:

    My valuation was stagnant [albeit, SE King County home prices decreased 20% YOY per Seattle Times article this month], and…….my property tax went up 12%. With gas at the pump and food heading up with no end, the only thing stagnant is our paychecks.

    Pragmatic pessimism aside, the yin and the yang of this conundrum is less traffic on the streets, cleaner air……versus general layoffs at gas stations, tire stores, restaurants, lounges, movie theaters, etc, etc…. [there's always exceptions] we did get a new lounge in SE King County called Nikki’s [the old Godfathers Pizza that went bankrupt], it was hopping last Saturday and full to the brim with an almost all girl rock band playing classic rock. Go there and dance, to go in to “economic denial” like SWE and smile more :-)

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  10. Scotsman

    Low tier rocks! The bottom is near?

    In other news, Benny B. said today that more stimulus “may be needed.” Mometization/inflation makes the debt go away- or at least puts it off for another decade.

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  11. softwarengineer

    RE: Scotsman @ 10

    Did You Say Puts It Off for Another Decade?

    The actual way QE1, QE2, and the other two massive yearly stimuluses in 2007 and 2008 went; how about puts it off for another year?

    They extended the $150B tax cut in 2012, so this yearly “kick the can” with debt to our grandkids is really just every decade?

    Sounds like you’ve been out to Nikki’s listening to the rock beat, in denial with SWE too….lol

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  12. No Name Guy

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 8

    S&P already down graded Greece to selective default rating. They have a BUNCH of debt coming due on March 20. When will they blow up? My money is (literally) on sooner rather than later (no, I’m not shorting – just holding a high percentage in cash, waiting for things to tank before moving in).

    SWE @ 11 touches on the fact the each subsequent round of QE / LTRO has had less and less bang for the buck. Charles Hugh Smith at “Of Two Minds” uses the analogy of an alcoholic or of pain meds where a bigger and bigger dose is required to get the same effect. Pretty soon, the powers that be will pull a big QE / LTRO and get nothing – at which point, there will be a stampede for the exits as folks realize there is no more extend and pretend.

    Getting back directly on topic:
    The depth of the YOY chart above (that is, the greatest loss year over year) looks to be in April 2009. The S&P 500 went off the cliff in September ’08 and hit bottom early March ’09. This seems to correlate well with the most rapid price deterioration (especially if you throw some lag time from stock market drop for deciding to buy, finding a place then closing).

    Yes, yes, yes…..correlation is not causation. But I’d suggest is certainly couldn’t have helped prospective buyers with significant wealth in the stock market step up and buy that new 800k place in Sammamish when they see the S&P go from 1250 on ~Sept 15, ’08 to 900 by October 6. How many of those that would have started looking around then said “well…..we should just wait and see how things shake out.”

    That’s how I see it all tying together…..

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  13. wreckingbull

    RE: softwarengineer @ 5 – Your continual third-person self-reference reminds me of The Jimmy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

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  14. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: No Name Guy @ 12 – I would actually prefer them to blow up earlier, so that we can test this theory that it’s better to collapse and then rebuild. Let them be the test subjects. In addition, doing that might get some countries to shape up their own acts.

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  15. softwarengineer

    RE: wreckingbull @ 13

    Hey, The Jimmy

    Ahhhh….basketball was his thing on the Kramer show….hey, I like basketball too, how about them Huskies!!!!

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  16. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 14

    Its a Joke IMO

    Its fixed, then its broken, its fixed, then its broken again, etc, etc….how about it never was fixed? Expecting the Greece citizens to swallow Euro austerity with their high standard of living is like expecting to get a camel through the eye of a needle….Greece bankruptcy is not a matter of if, its a matter of when.

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  17. The Desponder
  18. patient

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 14:

    RE: No Name Guy @ 12 – I would actually prefer them to blow up earlier, so that we can test this theory that it’s better to collapse and then rebuild. Let them be the test subjects. In addition, doing that might get some countries to shape up their own acts.

    The quicker the better. Europe’s and our own debt load and trajectory is mainly what prevents confidence to return to investors of any size including informed home buyers. As long as it’s unclear how it will play out and what the consequences are confidence is not coming back. Everyone knows that kicking the can down the road is not sustainable for Greece or us.

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  19. Scotsman

    RE: patient @ 18

    “Everyone knows that kicking the can down the road is not sustainable for Greece or us. ”

    Apples and oranges. Greece’s economy is about the size of Connecticut’s and they can’t print any money. The U.S. economy is the world’s largest (despite China’s claims), a reserve currency, and capable of printing from here to the moon- which is probably what they’ll do. they can kick the can for decades.

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  20. patient

    RE: Scotsman @ 19
    As far as I know we don’t print money to give to people or creditors. We print to encourage lending but lended money still need to be covered for and paid back with income/profit from a job or business. So as long as lending is not exploding, which it isn’t since the majority are deleveraging you will not get your inflation. And without inflation the debt keeps growing. QE is not printing free dollars for everyone, if it was we would likely be Zimbabwe by now. The FED will likely continue measured printing but I don’t believe we can print ourselves out of the debt. It doesn’t work like that for us or Greece.

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  21. No Name Guy

    RE: The Desponder @ 17

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 14

    Desponder hit it out of the park at 17 to your question / desire for a test case at 14 Kary.

    Compare and contrast Iceland, which refused to bail out their banks and let them fail, to every one else (Including Japan from the 90’s to date) and Greece, Ireland, Italy, Spain, etc today.

    Did Iceland hurt when they defaulted? No doubt. They also cleared away the bad debt, put the already failed businesses out of business (which freed up what productive parts existed) and got on with life. Iceland is well on it’s way to recovery. They’ll outperform Greece hands down over the coming 5-10 years.

    Scotsman: Yes, the US can hit Ctlr+P and “print”. That doesn’t solve the problem that you’re creating claims (aka printed “money”) on goods and services produced. What is the end cost of all these printed dollars chasing real goods and services? Germany has the experience on where this leads. What, want a more recent example? Zimbabwe. And what happens to that “reserve” currency status when a stack of C Notes is nothing but glorified TP? China dumped 100B in TSY’s (see Zerohedge)…..
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/china-dumps-100-billion-usts-december-revised-tic-data-uk-now-russias-shadow-buyer

    Could it be that others are starting to look elsewhere for their reserve, to more stable means of holding wealth? Perhaps. I’d suggest it’s best not to test them too far – once gone, reserve status and the advantages that go with it will be extremely difficult to earn back.

    In any event, when Apple quits being the only thing propping up the stock market, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to the high price tier 3-6 months later. I’d bet a beer on a quickly deteriorating YOY price comparison.

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  22. David Losh

    RE: Scotsman @ 19

    Wait a minute, who are you, and what have you done with Scotsman?

    What happened to “we are so screwed?”

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  23. David Losh

    WASHINGTON — Never before have the world’s central banks sent so much money sloshing through the global financial system.

    From slashing interest rates and buying government debt to dangling cheap loans to banks and taking on their risky assets, central banks have taken extraordinary steps since the 2008 financial crisis to nurse the international banking system back to health.

    Over the past 3 1/2 years, the central banks of the United States, Britain, Japan and the 17 countries that use the euro have pumped out so much money that their balance sheets have reached a combined $8.76 trillion. That’s a record, by far.

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  24. One Eyed Man

    Even ben bernanke knows that QE has never been the complete solution to US deficits. To a large degree its been a stop gap measure while the economy stabilized and the politicians figure out that they’ve got to stop pissing on each others feet and strike a compromise (the so-called “grand bargain).

    Bernanke has said over and over again that without fiscal change everything will eventually blow up. QE has some immediate stimulative effect and some lasting effect in diminishing the value of the outstanding debt through dollar destruction. But a major importance of QE is that it buys time for the ideologue politicians to get their act together and reach some reasonable compromise on the debt and deficits (probably along the lines to Simpson Bowles).

    The reason Scotsman is probably right is that icons from both parties, like Clint Eastwood and Warren Buffett, are starting to say a compromise like Simpson Bowles is absolutely essential. The party politicians will probably wait til after Nov to see how many votes they’ll have and what items on their wish list they’ll have to give up to pass deficit reduction, but it will happen next winter or spring. If the republicans control congress and the executive, healthcare reform and Finreg get gutted and some form of flat tax is a possibility. If dems retain the presidency and perhaps the senate, the Bush tax cuts might be largely eliminated. etc. etc.

    But I’ll bet you that a Simpson Bowles or a similar form of grand bargain on deficit reduction is the big news a year from now. Using Iceland as an example for rebuilding after financial collapse is irrelevant. First, in the heat of the collapse, the politicians can never take the chance of huge systemic damage potentially caused by an uncontrolled shut down of the payment settlement system. Small businesses would suffocate quickly in the payment vacuum. And second, the scale difference between the US and Iceland makes its example unreliable at best.

    But don’t get me wrong, Simpson Bowles doesn’t mean let the good times roll. It probably means more slow growth as GDP is restrained by annual decreases in public spending. Housing recovery will still have to wait for employment to recover and for foreclosure inventory to clear. Furthermore, at best true housing recovery means a market like the late 1990’s, not the construction boom of the early 2000’s. And although S&P earnings may generally improve in coming years, the stock market will occassionally “correct” and can’t go up every month like it has in Jan and Feb.

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  25. Sweet Pea

    By No Name Guy @ 21:

    RE: The Desponder @ 17

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 14

    Yes, the US can hit Ctlr+P and “print”.

    Ctrl P print: not as easy as it sounds. (warning, a fair amount of f-bombs here.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axmv44xXhm4

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  26. Scotsman

    RE: patient @ 20

    I don’t think it will be outright printing, although it may eventually come to that. And the money won’t find its way intio the economy through lending and traditional channels. Direct government spending (25% of GDP), bailouts of states like California, injections into pension plans, there are many other ways to get the cash into the economy. Watch what they do, not what they say. Look for 100 year bonds (already available), negotiated debt reductions, selective defaults or deferrals, a whole host of tricks.

    How many new tricks have they pulled off already that none of us thought were ever going to be legal or possible? How about legislating the debt off the Fed’s books? That could never happen, right? How much wealth has been replaced by inflating the stock markets? Remember, when 100 shares of GoStock! trade at a dollar increase, the other shares are now valued a dollar higher- all 6(?) million of them. that’s a lot of “wealth” created out of a $100/100share bump.

    Pretty soon we’ll have a little solid inflation going. That will some debt negotiation and a little growth and pretty soon we’re taking off. Sure, it’s all fake, but in the world of fiat money it works.

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  27. Scotsman

    RE: No Name Guy @ 21

    Two quick points- the vast majority of the world’s debt is denominated in dollars, and has to be paid back in dollars. Hence, there will always be demand for our currency, and as much as the rest of the world may hate it, they won’t have much of a choice. Point two is that we are still the only super-power, the one with the most nukes, etc. If we ever really wanted to win a war it would be over. Instead, it seems we prefer to bring things to a draw, then muddle along.

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  28. David Losh

    RE: Scotsman @ 26

    Seriously, what brought you around? Why now when just a few months ago you were the voice of armageddon?

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  29. Scotsman

    RE: David Losh @ 22

    We’re still screwed, it’s just that it will happen so slowly most won’t notice- the old boiling frog analogy. And it won’t really ramp up for a good decade or more. Pretty much everyone will be tossed into the pool before us. By the time we get our turn the body count may be so high the possibility of drowning is remote.

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  30. Scotsman

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 24

    More likely world events scare D.C. into agreeing on a spending freeze. Then time, inflation, a little easing/monetization here and there, etc. do the real work. I think they can agree there’s a problem. I doubt they can work out a solution- without some external constraint like a freeze.

    Inflation. Currency devaluation. Controlled collapse that you won’t even know is happening unless you turn off the t.v. and read some history. I doubt 2% of the people in this country can really explain how a fiat currency and fractional banking affect them and the future. Since the majority don’t and perhaps can’t understand what is happening- they won’t. But they do understand when the checks stop coming, and they get really unhappy. So the checks will come, but the money will buy very little relative to what will by then be long past expectations.

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  31. Kary L. Krismer

    By One Eyed Man @ 24:

    Even ben bernanke knows that QE has never been the complete solution to US deficits.

    Has he even indicated it’s a partial solution? I don’t think of it pertaining to deficits at all.

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  32. Kary L. Krismer

    By One Eyed Man @ 24:

    But a major importance of QE is that it buys time for the ideologue politicians to get their act together and reach some reasonable compromise on the debt and deficits (probably along the lines to Simpson Bowles)..

    OMG, we’re screwed.

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  33. Scotsman

    RE: David Losh @ 28

    I’ve long known there were only two ways out of this box- default or devaluation/inflation. What’s new is the realization that there really aren’t going to be any rules. The government, with our consent, is going to go rogue. And our watching the rest of the world collapse first will provide the cover politicians need to make changes- some legal, some not so legal. People won’t care. Just keep those checks coming.

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  34. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Scotsman @ 33 – But remember, when all that happens, the thing you want to have the most is savings. ;-)

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  35. Scotsman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 34

    No. It will be inflation time mixed with some shortages. You’ll want assets like real property, tools, equipment, raw materials, fuel, . . . and lead. Maybe a lawyer and/or some sandbags. Ok, that was mean. I’m sorry. How about a cat? Cats are always good. I’ve got three. ;-)

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  36. David Losh

    It’s not that bad.

    Let’s use oil as an example. Arab nations set a price of $100 per barrel, and every one went along with that. No rhyme or reason $100 sounds like a round number so they went with that.

    Arab nations keep $65 per barrel. That $65 is pure profit. All the infrastructure comes out of the $35 share. Lending money is against Shari Law so Arabs buy office buildings for rental income.

    Do the math of how much money that is on a daily basis.

    Banks, on the other hand make money on interest income that compounds daily. That is all profit because they borrow to lend, then securitize those loans to resell.

    Agri business is selling futures on crops they may, or may not grow, depending on the price. We are manufacturing housing units, globally, just to generate mortgages that may or may not be paid.

    Wealth is now a global concept, and the devil is in the poverty. Well, poverty is the emerging market. They are the consumers of tomorrow.

    I have great hope for the future. That in all of this, all boats will rise from this last set of ashes. I also think governments have come to grips with the fact they need taxation to stay afloat. With this amount of money in the economic system I don’t see a problem is paying down debt, or negotiating out of the hole we are in.

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  37. Scotsman

    Heavy going, but here’s your confirmation: The long and the short of it- no, current strategies won’t solve our systemic problems,, but they will kick the can down the road for a long, long time.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/sean-corrigan-crucifies-mmt

    “To understand why we are here is one thing of course: it is yet another to try to work out where we seem to be heading next. If aggressive monetary easing has pushed the likes of the US Small Cap index to all-time highs and triggered renewed buying of high-yield and emerging markets over the past few months, can we expect yet more largesse—and hence more price gains—ahead?

    To answer this we must recognise that the world economy seems to have divided into three camps—a more ebullient US of A, a bemired Europe, and an obscured Asia—so we have a triad of central bank actors to second-guess in each of these if we are to attempt a little divination regarding this question.

    In the first of them, the Fed seems to have truly let the dogs out: even without the launch of what seems an increasingly-redundant QEII, the aggregates are surging ahead as domestic banks eat into their excess stockpile of reserves (cash down $135 billion, bank credit up $375 bln to a new high, C&I loans up $100 bln).”

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  38. Blurtman

    RE: Scotsman @ 37 – Until the next seemingly legitimate fear story sweeps this nation, the market does not swoon. Or until the bigs decide to pull in the nets.

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  39. Jonness

    By Scotsman @ 10:

    Low tier rocks! The bottom is near?

    In other news, Benny B. said today that more stimulus “may be needed.” Mometization/inflation makes the debt go away- or at least puts it off for another decade.

    When Bernanke prints, stocks rally. IOW, if the rich go down, it’s game over. So jump on the train and watch your bank account soar.

    Meanwhile, the food stamp line is also soaring to ever higher peaks.

    There is always a place to make money hand over fist. The trick is, not getting psychologically stuck in one particular investment class while waiting for the return to the good ol’ days.

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  40. David Losh

    I’m going to interject an on topic comment.

    I was searching today for properties under $200K. It’s north of Seattle up to Everett. I counted 151, and 19 matched the criteria I was looking for.

    In December the same search got me pretty much nothing, but junk.

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  41. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 10:

    Low tier rocks! The bottom is near?

    In other news, Benny B. said today that more stimulus “may be needed.” Mometization/inflation makes the debt go away- or at least puts it off for another decade.

    you don’t care about debt. you are for the bush tax cuts which will adds trillions to the debt over the next ten years.

    WHY DO YOU KEEPING MENTIONING DEBT? I WILL POINT OUT EVERY TIME YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE BUSH TAX CUTS!

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  42. Scotsman

    RE: pfft @ 41

    Woof woof! I know you’re an old dog but try learning a new trick.

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  43. One Eyed Man

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 31

    Only in the sense that he always says we need QE to stabilize the economy in the near term, and deficit reduction in the long term when the economy is stable. He’s never acknowledged that QE will decrease the value of debt thru inflation/dollar destruction (although its obvious that even a 2% inflation target arguably destroys 20% or more of debt value over 10 years).

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  44. softwarengineer

    RE: David Losh @ 40

    I Saw a Realtor Sign Yesterday Advertising a Listed Home [not Condo] and Land in SE King County

    For under $45K.

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  45. MacroInvestor

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 24

    “But I’ll bet you that a Simpson Bowles or a similar form of grand bargain on deficit reduction is the big news a year from now.”

    I doubt any sitting gov will inflict austerity on themselves. They always want to do it to the other guy, the other party. As soon as spending is cut even a little, GDP will come down and he will be blamed for the recession. That’s why they increase the deficit every year. It creates the appearance of growth, which he can take credit for.

    They will kick the can for as long as they can. It ends when we “go Greece”. Nobody knows when.

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  46. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 36:

    It’s not that bad.

    Let’s use oil as an example. Arab nations set a price of $100 per barrel, and every one went along with that. No rhyme or reason $100 sounds like a round number so they went with that.

    They can set a target price, but they way they get to that price is by limiting production. If each member sold as much oil as they wanted, their target price would evaporate (absent production problems in some countries).

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  47. WestSideBilly

    Tim, how much trouble would it be to add a graph of the two cutoff points ($232k / $374k for this month) over time?

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  48. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: WestSideBilly @ 47 – I hadn’t noticed that $374k the current current cutoff. That really means that a lot of our discussion is off point, because we’ve been discussing the high end market, not C-S’s high end market. Their high end is lower than the King County non-distressed median.

    And yes, that graph would be nice, if it’s not too much work. Even one using one month of each year (e.g. each December) would be nice.

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  49. John Bailo

    When I moved to Seattle in 1986, there were 3-bedroom homes selling for $30,000.

    At the time that seemed like a King’s ransom to me (also interest rates were 8% or more).

    Wonder if that’s where it will all end up soon…(without the 8%).

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  50. patient

    By One Eyed Man @ 43:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 31

    Only in the sense that he always says we need QE to stabilize the economy in the near term, and deficit reduction in the long term when the economy is stable. He’s never acknowledged that QE will decrease the value of debt thru inflation/dollar destruction (although its obvious that even a 2% inflation target arguably destroys 20% or more of debt value over 10 years).

    Which would be cool if we stopped borrowing ever more. And if the value of the dollar drops and prices go up we will need to borrow even more. Printing and inflation is not the solution to dynamic debt. Static debt like a mortgage will benefit from high inflation but it’s a stretch to think it will solve our national debt without reducing the borrowing/spending. So back to my initial view, to return to economy growing confidence we need clarity of Europe’s and our own debt. I think a quick Greek default would be a bit of a shock near term but speed up the path to sustainable health.

    They certainly can kick the can for a lot longer but it doesn’t inpspire confidence and it does not create a sustainable recovery.

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  51. softwarengineer

    RE: John Bailo @ 49

    John, You’ll Be Labled a Pessimist for Predicting Such a Decrement

    Especially as the essentials, gas and food, go through the roof with basically frozen or shrinking wages….went to a friend’s place in Marysville and went bowling at the Strawberry Lanes, we used to order a cheese burgers there and they were quite good, not any more. They shrank them ham sliced thin, see picture:

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://johnweeden.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/krystal-burger.jpg&imgrefurl=http://johnweeden.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/krystal-restaurants-takes-a-page-from-weird-al-yankovich/&h=1113&w=1500&sz=445&tbnid=09LqrXEy9za-eM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=120&zoom=1&docid=7QAWwwZx0CYslM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=trhPT4bOGKKniQLvxdC0Bg&ved=0CD0Q9QEwAw

    They were that bad. I got the roast beef and gravy, it was “one” thin deli slice of roast beef on white bread with horrifying tasting gravy (thinned down with mass flour) with waterred down instant potatos….they charged me $9 for the beefless roast beef single slice and $7 for the dinky ham thick burger [the pickle was thicker than the meat]. Its gonna get worse Bubbleheads….

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  52. Seattle Real Estate Getting Its Mojo Back | The SunBreak

    [...] sale. That’s not to say it hasn’t been a cold winter for home-sellers–all three Case-Schiller price tiers fell in December, points out Seattle Bubble–but a stagnant inventory was helping to push prices down. More [...]

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  53. John Bailo

    RE: softwarengineer @ 51

    Sounds like you’re expecting the “Collapse””

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAyHIOg5aHk

    Not me.

    Just bargains.

    Bargains galore!

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  54. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: No Name Guy @ 21RE: The Desponder @ 17 – Jonnes’ post today made me realize I’ve neglected to respond to this. I wouldn’t view Iceland as being anywhere near the same as Greece. Iceland was a situation where the banks got out of hand, not a situation of government debt getting out of hand (at least until the crisis).

    Also, I don’t really view it as being a situation where the government did nothing. They nationalized the banks. Thus if they did nothing, our government did nothing taking over AIG and GM.

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