Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

45 responses to “Weekend Open Thread (2012-03-02)”

  1. Kary L. Krismer

    By mukoh @ 37:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1 – Water pipes are wrapped with foil/indicator. All you do is call before you dig and they mark it as far as you are digging. IT IS FREE!!!!. All utilities companies pay for it.

    Some may be–it might depend on the era. I’ve never seen any that have been, but I’ve mainly seen ones from the 70s.

    And yes, we know they will do it for free, but the claim made here was that the local water company may stop at the meter.

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  2. Kary L. Krismer

    Any idea where this public “urban forest” would be? I’m thinking along I-5 south of Seattle.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/02/29/147668557/seattles-first-urban-food-forest-will-be-free-to-forage

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  3. Pegasus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2 – Other than being able to see an urban space that is not concrete or asphalt who are the fools that conceive things like this? I see that Seattle Public Utilities is providing the space and others are providing “seed” money. How about the PUBLIC utility lower the rates they charge instead and those donating the funds donate the funds to an organization that is actually efficient at either growing or distributing food to the needy?

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  4. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2
    It’s closer to 15th Ave S, adjacent to the southwestern border of Jefferson Park, around S. Dakota St..

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  5. softwarengineer

    RE: Pegasus @ 3

    Think Positive Pegasus

    If we plant a good bushy green area the poor can hide there in their homeless tents with less fear of arrest.

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  6. Pegasus

    RE: softwarengineer @ 5 – And look at all the food they will have. I wonder who will police the food jungle while they dole out one blueberry each to the transients? I imagine those blueberries should not cost more than a few thousand dollars each.

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  7. No Name Guy

    RE: Pegasus @ 3

    Fools they are. It’ll suffer the tragedy of the commons.

    The trees will be ill cared for – why would one of the “pickers” take care of the trees or shrubs if they’re not guaranteed the “fruit” of their labor.

    Those that are ignorant of history (or human nature) are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. Sadly there exists a large subset of the population that insists on being idealistic fools with other peoples money.

    As a side note, for those that want to pick wild blueberries and huckleberries, there is always an abundance of them in the old clear cuts near or around the Pacific Crest Trail south of Snoqualmie Pass. Late August into September are prime season. And there are no lazy bums, oops, I mean “homeless”, camped in the middle of the “food plots”.

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  8. softwarengineer

    RE: No Name Guy @ 7

    Yes, About Half of the Americans from age 18-24 Have No Jobs

    19% of the men from age 18-35 have no jobs.

    They’re all lazy bums, yeah right.

    Have a heart please.

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  9. Blurtman

    RE: softwarengineer @ 8 – How many have guns? Quick, legalize marijuana so the are too blissed out to do something.

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  10. No Name Guy

    RE: softwarengineer @ 8

    Oh….I do have a heart. I feel for the family who’s child was shot the other day. I pity the person who just found out they have cancer and have only weeks to live. I weep at the senseless brutality of thuggish dictators in Syria and North Korea (and wish I had a clear shot from 200 yards away at each of them). I cry for the new parents who’s child was born with a congenital problem that condemns them to a brief life. I’m sad for the families in the mid west who have to bury their loved ones, killed by the storms. I have a plenty big heart, just not for lazy bums who actively refuse to try and take care of themselves.

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  11. Blurtman

    RE: No Name Guy @ 10 – Just to be clear, you are not commenting on lazy bums who do take care of themselves, correct?

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  12. Tatiana Kalashnikov

    RE: Blurtman @ 9
    I have read that there are 250 – 300 million guns in America. And about 15 million are added every year. So that genie is already out of the bottle and this is really a non issue, correct?

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  13. David Losh

    RE: Pegasus @ 3

    I’m going to guess it is unstable soil that is a liability to the utility. I had a listing in about that area for a parcel on a slope. The seller inherited the property so the price was very reasonable. An investor wanted to buy both his property and the lots next door. The soils test showed a garbage land fill. It was a dumping site approved by the City in the 1920s to 1950s. The property was deemed unbuildable.

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  14. Blurtman

    RE: Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 12 – Until the gov ends food stamps and unemployment extensions, or foreclosure on the parents’ home occurs, or they cancel Celebrity Apprentice, probably right.

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  15. Blurtman

    Always spot on.
    —————-
    SP 500 and NDX Futures Daily Charts – Orwell Just Threw Up

    “When it comes to fighting financial fraud, the Obama Administration’s record of success has been nothing less than historic.” Eric Holder, Attorney General for Obama Administration, Address To Columbia University

    May I remind the Attorney General that, in the words of Charles Ferguson, ” three years after our horrific financial crisis caused by financial fraud, not a single financial executive has gone to jail, and that’s wrong.”

    Mr. Holder went on to say:
    “We found that much of the conduct that led to the financial crisis was unethical and irresponsible. But we have also discovered that some of this behavior — while morally reprehensible — may not necessarily have been criminal.”

    And if that is the current standard of justice being applied to wanton, pervasive, and obvious financial fraud and white collar crime by powerful insiders in Washington DC these days, then it will come as no surprise to the thousands of victims of MF Global that no one will be held accountable. Not to mention the millions of victims of fraud in the mortgage crisis, and the ongoing predatory banking and market fixing.

    And the rest of us should not be surprised when we find that nothing is safe from those who think that the law and words mean whatever they want them to mean.

    When Obama said “Yes We Can” I think most Americans thought he meant something else.

    And the shame and the pity is that this November Americans will be given a choice between Brand A and Brand B, which are in reality the same corporate products, manufactured by the same people, with just different marketing messages.

    http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/03/sp-500-and-ndx-futures-daily-charts_02.html

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  16. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 15 – We don’t live in a third world country where people are thrown in jail for doing things people after the fact decide they don’t like. For the most part, criminal statutes need to be somewhat specific as to what type of conduct is criminal.

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  17. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16 – What are you talking about? This country has a long history of throwing people in jail it didn’t like, or whose behavior it didn’t like.

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  18. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 17 – Ignoring the Japanese during WWII, most of those most likely violated specific statutes.

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  19. Howard
  20. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 17

    What you are saying is true. People do get thrown in jail for doing things the government doesn’t like. Eric Holder, I’m sure, is well aware of that.

    However, Real Estate, and mortgages have thousands of laws that condone behavior that you would think is illegal, or criminal. We worship pirates of industry. We deify wealth as some God given right, or destiny.

    That said, many prosecutors are settling for civil charges that have lenders paying resitution, no matter how little. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500395_162-57387779/big-banks-could-face-mortgage-fraud-charges/

    The alternative is to send some low level robo signer to jail, and get nothing.

    It’s absolutely infair, and why I think individuals should sue lenders, Real Estate brokerages, and loan servicers. The problem is no attorney wants to do that. How would they get paid?

    It’s a problem you continue to bring up, and you are coreect, but so far I haven’t seen anything compelling enough to build a case on.

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  21. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 18

    I’ve been researching for a book on the Black Panther Party in Seattle. You’ll find several groups, and individuals who have gone to jail, or been jailed, for the most fabricated excuses simply to get them out of the way, or to disgrace them.

    We have a long history in this country of side lining groups that the government feels are a threat to National Security. I’m pretty sure it’s gotten worse in the past ten years.

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  22. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 21 – Clearly the over-representation of certain groups in the US prison system is due to the “criminal gene,” because, by golly, our justice system is fair and impartial.

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  23. Macro Investor

    RE: Blurtman @ 15

    About the time the statutes of limitation run out, Holder and all 50 state AGs will suddenly realize — by golly, we just found out IT IS illegal to forge documents thousands and thousands of times. We blame the for failing to report it sooner.

    I guarantee this is what will happen.

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  24. Howard

    By Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 12:

    RE: Blurtman @ 9
    I have read that there are 250 – 300 million guns in America. And about 15 million are added every year. So that genie is already out of the bottle and this is really a non issue, correct?

    With a last name like that?!

    My born in Russian relatives who speak English never learned any euphemisms. I find it peculiar that you use them…

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  25. ChrisM

    Mish has a fun look at what 890k gets you in Vancouver BC:

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/03/vancouver-bc-vs-donegal-ireland-real.html

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  26. ChrisM

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 18 – Wow, what are you smoking? For starters, I refer you to Schenck:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

    where someone was jailed for opposing the draft in WW1.

    Of course we can go further back to Dred Scott.

    More recently (Depression era) while not incarceration, it ain’t a shining example of justice:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

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  27. Tatiana Kalashnikov

    RE: Howard @ 24

    My cousin Natalia and I had the most wonderful English teacher in Yuba City (California). He taught us a euphemism each time we met in class. He told us to use this part of the language to sound “local.” I am so sorry that it sounds “peculiar.” Perhaps I am trying too hard. And while I am saying, too, why is there also to, and two?? English is so hard!!

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  28. wreckingbull

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16 – The lack of prosecution is entirely political.

    We already have too many vague federal laws. Harvey Silvergate makes a pretty convincing argument of how federal laws are already too broad and how they can be used to lock any one of us up at any time.

    http://www.harveysilverglate.com/Books/ThreeFeloniesaDay.aspx

    Heck, who even cares about laws? With the recent passage of the 2012 NDAA, you can be locked up without any due process at all.

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  29. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 21:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 18

    I’ve been researching for a book on the Black Panther Party in Seattle. You’ll find several groups, and individuals who have gone to jail, or been jailed, for the most fabricated excuses simply to get them out of the way, or to disgrace them. .

    I’m not saying you can’t have corrupt or politically motivated police and prosecutors, only that the charge has to relate to a statute prohibiting some specific activity.

    To put this in context, you can’t have two airplanes flown into the twin towers and then prosecute the CEO of American Airlines criminally for the bad act having occurred.

    When it comes to the mortgage mess, you could have criminal securities act violations for misrepresenting the condition of the underlying securities. That’s about all that comes to mind. What the guy did at AIG, for example, which brought the entire company down, and risked doing the same to the entire economy, not likely criminal.

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  30. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 22:

    RE: David Losh @ 21 – Clearly the over-representation of certain groups in the US prison system is due to the “criminal gene,” because, by golly, our justice system is fair and impartial.

    Again, not my claim, but go ahead and try to win an argument by addressing claims I haven’t made.

    BTW, the reason I’m against the death penalty is because you cannot trust the police, prosecutors, judges or jurors to be impartial, and they certainly are not perfect, and many of the prosecutors and judges are not even competent.

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  31. Kary L. Krismer

    By Macro Investor @ 23:

    RE: Blurtman @ 15

    About the time the statutes of limitation run out, Holder and all 50 state AGs will suddenly realize — by golly, we just found out IT IS illegal to forge documents thousands and thousands of times. We blame the for failing to report it sooner.

    I guarantee this is what will happen.

    So your goal is to have low level employees charged with crimes? Not sure what you think that will accomplish.

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  32. Kary L. Krismer

    By ChrisM @ 26:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 18 – Wow, what are you smoking? For starters, I refer you to Schenck:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

    where someone was jailed for opposing the draft in WW1.

    And I’ll refer you to the statute he was prosecuted for:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

    Again, it doesn’t really win an argument to address arguments that have not been made. There have also been statutes on the books which made homosexual and pre-marital violent love illegal. I’m not saying that the criminal justice system has always been perfect, only that a bad event does not mean there was a criminal event.

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  33. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: ChrisM @ 26 – My comment about your first example is awaiting moderation. Your second and third examples seemingly don’t involve criminal laws at all, and therefore are totally off point.

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  34. Kary L. Krismer

    By wreckingbull @ 28:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16 – The lack of prosecution is entirely political..

    That could be, and prosecution could also be political in other instances. I’m not trying to say the system is fair. Only that you have to have a criminal statute to point to.

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  35. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 27 – Affect and effect are worse. Much more difficult to figure out than to, too and two.

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  36. Kary L. Krismer

    Perhaps it would be good for some of you to re-read what I wrote regarding criminal law.

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 16:

    RE: Blurtman @ 15 – We don’t live in a third world country where people are thrown in jail for doing things people after the fact decide they don’t like. For the most part, criminal statutes need to be somewhat specific as to what type of conduct is criminal.

    My favorite example of that principle is a Supreme Court case from the early 20th Century. Someone was charged with the crime of transporting a motor vehicle across state lines. The statute was broad, covering automobiles, trains, wagons and probably five or six other types of vehicles. But the vehicle in question was an airplane, which if I recall correctly, had not even been invented at the time the statute was enacted. The court held the defendant(s) could not be prosecuted under that statute, even though they stole the airplane and took it across state lines.

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  37. Macro Investor

    By wreckingbull @ 28:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16

    Heck, who even cares about laws? With the recent passage of the 2012 NDAA, you can be locked up without any due process at all.

    Where are the lawyers and judges worth a plug nickel? Congress can’t pass laws that take away your right to due process. If I were a lawyer, I’d find a way to challenge that on day one.

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  38. wreckingbull

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 29 – In the end, the only thing that is going to get us back to the rule of law is campaign finance reform.

    For example, take the “Friends of Angelo” (FOA) program at Countrywide. Are you kidding me? This is nothing more than direct payments to politicians for favors.

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  39. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 27
    It’s even worse than that. There’s “to”, “I am going to Lviv”, there’s “two”, ” pizza and lasagna are two examples of Italian food”, and there’s “too”, ( two types of “too”), “there’s too many real estate agents in Seattle” and ” me too.” That’s a lot “to” figure out.

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  40. Blurtman

    And then there is Guantanamo. Laws are abandonded whenever the PTB want to. So let’s just declare a special circumstance, and put the banksters in Guantanamo.

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  41. Tatiana Kalashnikov

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 39RE: Blurtman @ 40

    Well I’m going to give up on trying to use clever euphemisms. I guess it’s back to the basics, which in English is difficult enough!

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  42. wreckingbull

    RE: Blurtman @ 40 – I think that the rate in which our liberties are taken is a very deliberate and calculated effort. Too fast, the pitchforks and torches come out, too slow and momentum is lost.

    So far, I have to hand it to them, they are doing a stunning job of maintaining this balance.

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  43. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: wreckingbull @ 42RE: Blurtman @ 40 – Where were you guys in the economic thread in the debate about First Amendment religious and free speech rights?

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  44. Blurtman
  45. ricklind

    By Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 41:

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 39RE: Blurtman @ 40

    Well I’m going to give up on trying to use clever euphemisms. I guess it’s back to the basics, which in English is difficult enough!

    Your use of euphemisms is fine and fit right in. I think maybe Howard was just surprised to hear it.

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