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You are not a Real Estate person. This isn’t your career.

You are however on the internet dispensing opinions about Real Estate. Many people have tried to educate you, but you won’t listen.

You don’t care about the business, or the people who work in the business.

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RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 85 –

You don’t care about Real Estate, that’s for sure.

I ran into David Prater at Windermere today, great guy, great agent, who was passing out flyers door to door. He is another listless Real Estate agent, who is looking for inventory, because that’s the job. You need to list to exist in the Real Estate business.

Buyers are unsually focused on a neighborhood or school district.

This is the nature of the business.

Again, please trying to make claims about things you don’t know about. You don’t know what I care about.

Second, I don’t have to go door to door contacting people I don’t know to see if they want to be my client. I have never had to do that and I would never want to do that.

Third, you really don’t know buyers, but assuming you’re right, I’m still not going to go knocking on every door in a school district to see if the occupant is the owner, and if they are if they want to sell to my client.

If you think those things are “the nature of the business” then you don’t understand real estate.

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By Kary L. Krismer @ 79:

Your agent should have known that a contract doesn�t need to be �in the file� until after mutual acceptance.� So your story proves nothing.

Right, the agent’s close associate didn’t understand how their office did business, and that there is a secret file where they keep all other offers separate just in case an associate has to look in the file to tell a client whether there are multiple offers on the house.

But Kary, he’s such an expert, he knows this office he never stepped foot in in his life has a secret file cabinet that only the agent on vacation knew about. And this is where he safely hides all the other offers he doesn’t want his close associates to know about.

Kary, sometimes it’s difficult for me to believe you take yourself seriously.

You don’t understand what’s going on

After having been through at least a dozen transactions, I’ve pretty much had my eyes opened wide to your kind Kary. I know exactly what you are up to and exactly what’s going on.

No, you don’t understand. Agents are not required to turn a file into the office until mutual acceptance. See paragraph 7.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=308-124C-140

Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about, but that doesn’t stop you.

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By Kary L. Krismer @ 78:

By Jonness @ 72:

By wreckingbull @ 44:

RE: Jonness @ 42 – I am no fan of bidding wars, but do you really want to limit your choices like this? I feel that if you have done your homework, you can make educated decisions about whether an escalated bid makes sense.

Remember, you still have to live in the home you buy, and you probably will need to resell it at some point. I think the moderate stance on bidding wars makes sense. Do so carefully, prudently, and in an educated manner.

I’m not completely against bidding against other buyers, but I am completely against overpaying for a house. Unfortunately, most people who engage in bidding wars do so emotionally and end up overpaying,

I agree with the first sentence. I really doubt you have any evidence at all of the second sentence, or that you even know 5 situations where people have bought at a bidding situation.

There are mountains of textbooks written on market psychology Kary. Human emotions affect all but the psychopaths among us, and even they are capable of feeling sorry for themselves.

So in other words, when you get caught making claims which are total BS, you go into personal attack mode.

Face it, you don’t know what you’re talking about, but that doesn’t stop you.

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You don’t care about Real Estate, that’s for sure.

I ran into David Prater at Windermere today, great guy, great agent, who was passing out flyers door to door. He is another listless Real Estate agent, who is looking for inventory, because that’s the job. You need to list to exist in the Real Estate business.

Buyers are unsually focused on a neighborhood or school district.

This is the nature of the business.

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Your agent should have known that a contract doesn’t need to be “in the file” until after mutual acceptance.” So your story proves nothing.

Right, the agent’s close associate didn’t understand how their office did business, and that there is a secret file where they keep all other offers separate just in case an associate has to look in the file to tell a client whether there are multiple offers on the house.

But Kary, he’s such an expert, he knows this office he never stepped foot in in his life has a secret file cabinet that only the agent on vacation knew about. And this is where he safely hides all the other offers he doesn’t want his close associates to know about.

Kary, sometimes it’s difficult for me to believe you take yourself seriously.

You don’t understand what’s going on

After having been through at least a dozen transactions, I’ve pretty much had my eyes opened wide to your kind Kary. I know exactly what you are up to and exactly what’s going on.

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By Jonness @ 72:

By wreckingbull @ 44:

RE: Jonness @ 42 – I am no fan of bidding wars, but do you really want to limit your choices like this? I feel that if you have done your homework, you can make educated decisions about whether an escalated bid makes sense.

Remember, you still have to live in the home you buy, and you probably will need to resell it at some point. I think the moderate stance on bidding wars makes sense. Do so carefully, prudently, and in an educated manner.

I’m not completely against bidding against other buyers, but I am completely against overpaying for a house. Unfortunately, most people who engage in bidding wars do so emotionally and end up overpaying,

I agree with the first sentence. I really doubt you have any evidence at all of the second sentence, or that you even know 5 situations where people have bought at a bidding situation.

There are mountains of textbooks written on market psychology Kary. Human emotions affect all but the psychopaths among us, and even they are capable of feeling sorry for themselves.

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Your idea of going around knocking on doors to find a seller is nonsense, unless perhaps your client is only interested in a very small area, such as a block or tiny subdivision.

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You don’t care about Real estate, or the Real Estate business. You are a guy with a Real Estate license. This is the job.

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Yes you should be out looking for inventory. That is the job of a Real Estate agent. Real Estate is different than a used car.

You don’t understand real estate.

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If you have a buyer in hand who wants to buy who is loyal to you that is a leverage you have in the market place. If your buyer is out of control and in a frenzy you lose either way, right along with them. In that case you become the person out of control looking to slam your buyer into any property you can to get a commission.

Do you think your buyer, that you just slam dunked, in years to come is going to talk about what a great agent you are? They are going to tell people they helped you get a commission. They helped you, you did nothing for them, they helped put food on your table.

That part of what Ray says is true, never trust any one with a vested interested in slamming a buyer into a property.

Now if you want to talk about listing technique, which is the point of this discussion, great, that is what people need right now is inventory, that is where the money is.

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By Kary L. Krismer @ 36:

If you believe that 20% number, however, you are extremely gullible. http://blog.seattlepi.com/realestate/2009/08/06/have-we-become-a-nation-of-the-extremely-gullible-its-on-the-internet-it-must-be-true/

Apparently, you are unaware that Core Logic has access to loan servicing records as well as HELOC records along with a plethora of other housing-related data not available at your local court house.

http://www.corelogic.com/about-us/data.aspx

Figuring out the amount owed per general area is trivial.

LOL, Read your own link:

U.S. home equity databases

7 million active loans
80% of bank-owned home equity loans and lines of credit

In any case, to make that determination of underwater they have to know what the house is worth. That’s part of the equation. But I’m glad you like Corelogic so much, because in my own example of my house sale/purchase, of the three services I checked they were showing that I am by far and away better off by having moved. Per Corelogic I would have lost $81,000 more in value by staying put. That’s because they think the old house lost more than 2x the value lost by the new house. You have repeatedly ridiculed my move because you don’t understand to to make or analyze financial decisions, but even the source you now think is great supports my decision (and that doesn’t account for the increased value of living in a better house).

BTW, of the three services, I thing Corelogic is probably the least correct on the valuation of the old house, so their inability to value houses leads to an incorrect end result. I don’t think the old house went down so much that it is over 2x what the new house declined. I’m using the Corelogic numbers more as evidence that they cannot determine value accurately.

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By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

By David Losh @ 54:

It’s common sense that if the market has over heated you step back.

No, you work harder to find the properties faster.

This is exactly what most agents were saying during the bubble price runup and helps to explain why so many recent buyers are currently underwater.

Yes it is similar. In both markets you don’t have the luxury of taking a relaxed approach. But that doesn’t mean it’s the same.

If you’re down in Phoenix you would want to be inside during 120 degree weather and during a microcell event. That doesn’t mean they are the same.

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By David Losh @ 45:

Bidding wars are a sales technique. People are hyped to buy and an agent encourages that. This scam has been used successfully since 1997. It is a waste of time for the buyer, but the sellers make out extremely well, in most cases, not all.

David, you are one of the few agents who will tell it straight. I put an offer on a house a couple of years ago, and the agent came back and told me there were multiple offers. My agent gave him a call a few days later, but he was out of town, so his associate looked into the file to answer a question. My agent also asked if the house had any other offers yet. The associate said there were no other offers on file. I ended up walking on the deal..

Your agent should have known that a contract doesn’t need to be “in the file” until after mutual acceptance.” So your story proves nothing.

You may however be right that some agents will falsely claim there are multiple offers. There’s one agent out there that will do anything. But given the fact that saying you have an offer in makes it less likely you’ll get another offer in, rather than more likely, makes that practice hardly widespread.

There’s a theme to my response. You don’t understand how the process works, so you don’t understand what’s going on.

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By wreckingbull @ 44:

RE: Jonness @ 42 – I am no fan of bidding wars, but do you really want to limit your choices like this? I feel that if you have done your homework, you can make educated decisions about whether an escalated bid makes sense.

Remember, you still have to live in the home you buy, and you probably will need to resell it at some point. I think the moderate stance on bidding wars makes sense. Do so carefully, prudently, and in an educated manner.

I’m not completely against bidding against other buyers, but I am completely against overpaying for a house. Unfortunately, most people who engage in bidding wars do so emotionally and end up overpaying,

I agree with the first sentence. I really doubt you have any evidence at all of the second sentence, or that you even know 5 situations where people have bought at a bidding situation.

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By MichaelB @ 29:

RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 14 –

CoreLogic reports that almost 20% of homes in Washington State are in negative equity. There is no basis to believe home prices will be increasing any time soon. So this “supply and demand” argument is ridiculous!

Totally non-responsive. I suggest you go back and read what I wrote again.

If you believe that 20% number, however, you are extremely gullible. http://blog.seattlepi.com/realestate/2009/08/06/have-we-become-a-nation-of-the-extremely-gullible-its-on-the-internet-it-must-be-true/

Also, take a class on economics. Anytime anyone ridicules supply and demand, it just demonstrates total ignorance.

Kary, you ignorant sluuutttt. I didn’t say the concept of supply and demand is ridiculous, I said your application of supply and demand as a key driver of house prices is ridiculous. If supply were really constrained, you would expect to see prices increasing, and yet they are not??? Hmmm… Please draw a chart of the intersection of supply and demand for homes to demonstrate how prices can DROP when supply has decreased, with demand unchanged. In fact, houses are not apples, or bread, or rice and there are many factors that are much more important than how many homes happen to be listed at a given time that determine home values.

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If you believe that 20% number, however, you are extremely gullible. http://blog.seattlepi.com/realestate/2009/08/06/have-we-become-a-nation-of-the-extremely-gullible-its-on-the-internet-it-must-be-true/

Apparently, you are unaware that Core Logic has access to loan servicing records as well as HELOC records along with a plethora of other housing-related data not available at your local court house.

http://www.corelogic.com/about-us/data.aspx

Figuring out the amount owed per general area is trivial.

As far as the supply/demand argument, there is a difference between how this works in regulated and unregulated markets (owners trapped underwater unable to sell, bank’s shadow inventory purposefully trickled out, etc vs red hot market with genuinely low supply). But I agree in most cases, a sign that demand is outstripping current supply is that prices increase. So far, other than the normal Spring bounce, we haven’t seen this occur in our area as a whole.

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By David Losh @ 54:

It’s common sense that if the market has over heated you step back.

No, you work harder to find the properties faster.

This is exactly what most agents were saying during the bubble price runup and helps to explain why so many recent buyers are currently underwater.

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Bidding wars are a sales technique. People are hyped to buy and an agent encourages that. This scam has been used successfully since 1997. It is a waste of time for the buyer, but the sellers make out extremely well, in most cases, not all.

David, you are one of the few agents who will tell it straight. I put an offer on a house a couple of years ago, and the agent came back and told me there were multiple offers. My agent gave him a call a few days later, but he was out of town, so his associate looked into the file to answer a question. My agent also asked if the house had any other offers yet. The associate said there were no other offers on file. I ended up walking on the deal.

You see, these crooks will lie and tell you there are multiple offers when there aren’t any other other offers. So all these giddy idiot buyers end up bidding against themselves to ensure they get the houses. Either that, or they never find out their original bid was $5 grand higher than buyer #2′s final offer; yet, they panicked and through in an extra $20K when they learned there were multiple offers.

Behind the scenes, RE purchasing is a game of horse trading, and if you don’t know what you are doing, you are going to overpay. At the end of the day, your agent looks like a hero for getting you the house. And you never find out you paid an extra $20K only to see a better cheaper house pop up down the street a few months later.

People who want to play this game correctly need to learn to control their impulses and emotions and instead think logically. How many ebay auctions have you seen where during the last minute of the auction, people have lost emotional control and ended up bidding almost as much for a used piece of junk as a brand new item? It’s the same phenomenon in RE bidding wars.

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RE: Jonness @ 42 – I am no fan of bidding wars, but do you really want to limit your choices like this? I feel that if you have done your homework, you can make educated decisions about whether an escalated bid makes sense.

Remember, you still have to live in the home you buy, and you probably will need to resell it at some point. I think the moderate stance on bidding wars makes sense. Do so carefully, prudently, and in an educated manner.

I’m not completely against bidding against other buyers, but I am completely against overpaying for a house. Unfortunately, most people who engage in bidding wars do so emotionally and end up overpaying, especially in the current low-supply/falling prices marketplace where FHA etc. loans are ubiquitous

I agree with becoming informed, but that starts by using logic instead of emotions to make important business decisions. You know as well as I do, in most bidding situations, logic goes out the window in favor or emotions. My best advice is, if you want to buy a house, be patient and find the right house at the right price. Just because some giddy idiot, with no appreciation for what it takes to work, earn, and save money, is willing to overpay for the house using a GSE loan doesn’t mean you should pay even more than that person and put 35% down in the process.

Also, just because your RE agent would prefer to show you 3 houses instead of 20 doesn’t mean it’s in your best interest.

IMO, limiting myself from these predatory situations is the right thing to do. Admittedly, I’m of the extreme minority who views purchasing a home as an investment as well as a place to live.

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Seriously, that is one totally messed up post. How many houses do you take a buyer into before they find one they like? But you want go around asking sellers if they want to sell before a buyer has even seen it? (Assuming the purpose of that contact is not to get a listing).

If, however, your comment meant it’s better to have listings now than buyer clients, I would agree.

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By Ray Pepper @ 17:

RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 –
Kary, 500 Realty and myself personally NEVER engage in multiple offer scenarios for our Buyers PERIOD. …

We missed out bidding on a home in Kennydale somewhat due to this advice. The selling agent misled our buying agent about the existing offers. The house sold for almost $100,000 less than we would have been willing to pay. The flippers who got the house fixed it up and sold it for about $200,000 more than they bought it for in a couple of months of cosmetic fixes. It was a bank-owned house. There had to have been an inside deal for this to happen. Bank doesn’t care I presume because they get the shortfall made up by whoever guaranteed the loan.

If you are buying houses as an investment then there is always another house. But if you are buying your one house to live in for the next 20 years, and you have to deal with my husband, then there is about one house per year. .

That sounds exactly like what I’ve been talking about–a property priced too low. It happens, just like sometimes they are priced too high.

As to your second paragraph, I would agree. We’ve been in our house over four years and looked at hundreds of houses in that time, and only a handful would I even consider at a similar price. That’s even with the decline in the market.

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OK, Kary, how many property owners did you approach in the past two months, to convince them to sell? I mean if you are working harder to find properties faster, how many sellers have you approached on behalf of your buyers?

I mean random people who you know are going to sell, but the property isn’t on the market yet. How many of those have you talked to?

I have the feeling you are watching the computer the same as most buyers today, in today’s market. It the watch, and wait mentality, then pounce.

It’s not even a strategy.

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Today, is today Ardell, it’s today’s market place of feeding frenzy.

I’m sorry Real Estate agents, and Brokerages have to make a buck this way, but today’s buyers should step back, and let the smoke clear.

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It’s common sense that if the market has over heated you step back.

No, you work harder to find the properties faster.

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Kary, what you do not understand( because you are not of the investor mindset) is that any form of bidding war, multiple offer, escalation, etc. places Buyers at a disadvantage to the Seller.

I would agree the considerations could be different for an investor than a buyer intending to occupy. But still, if they were willing to offer $X without knowing of the other offers, I don’t know why they would really care. The cost to inspect is relatively minor, and if that limits your chance to negotiate inspection issues, at least you’re getting a sought after property.

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There is nothing to say on a bank owned property that you can’t put in an offer, and forget about it. Ray is correct that when the listing agent calls, and asks for more, you say no, thanks. It doesn’t matter anyway to what is going on today.

I wanted to clarify that in 1997, maybe 1996, the MLS allowed listings to be e-mailed to buyers. It was a game that buyers were given pagers, and when a “hot” property came up the agent would page, the buyers would look at the property, and make the offer in a rush.

Today it’s the same, maybe worse, with phone app technology.

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RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 –
Kary, 500 Realty and myself personally NEVER engage in multiple offer scenarios for our Buyers PERIOD. …

We missed out bidding on a home in Kennydale somewhat due to this advice. The selling agent misled our buying agent about the existing offers. The house sold for almost $100,000 less than we would have been willing to pay. The flippers who got the house fixed it up and sold it for about $200,000 more than they bought it for in a couple of months of cosmetic fixes. It was a bank-owned house. There had to have been an inside deal for this to happen. Bank doesn’t care I presume because they get the shortfall made up by whoever guaranteed the loan.

If you are buying houses as an investment then there is always another house. But if you are buying your one house to live in for the next 20 years, and you have to deal with my husband, then there is about one house per year.

Conclusion: put in the offer you want to make on the house that you want if it seems at all reasonable. If you are making an offer over listing price especially, put it in. I am not advocating making an offer way under both the listing price and the apparent current value, that would be wasting to many people’s time.

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We are talking about today when there are 4000 properties listed, compared to 7000 listed last year. We are talking about a Real Estate industry induced reduction in “supply.” The truth is every property is for sale for the right price, and terms.

The Multiple isn’t the end all be all of Real Estate inventory. Real Estate agents are playing a game, right now, that families will pay for for years to come. It’s all a scam.

The number of listings quoted is whatever, but you can look at the graphs posted last week.

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Just saw one where they are going to look at offers…wait for it…in TWENTY days! The house is listed 25% higher than the last home sold and has no unique qualities.

I think someone’s pushing their luck a bit too far. Hope they aren’t fooling anyone with that one. If that sells at or over list price, we need to figure out how to make “a rule” prohibiting that kind of “strategy”.

I don’t agree with Ray that people should run away from a good house just because someone else wants it too. But keep your wits about you, people. This one is a total scam. Kinda like stuffing tissues in a bra to make people think things are better than they actually are.

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A real estate agent in talking to a couple (late 20′s) – seems like one of their initial discussion. “need to be ready to pounce on the right house with a offer right away”, “less than 1 week …”, ‘pre-approved to know what they can offer”.

Nothing specifically outrageous – but after 20 minutes of this conversation, i could see them going down this decision tree. There was nothing about value, long-term best financial decision … I am so tempted to go say something … but wont …

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I don’t see Brian Carraway urging buyers to outbid everyone else, or come in with escalation clauses, or anything else. He simply says that you should have a strategy to deal with the reality of today’s market. Your strategy should be whatever makes sense for you. If you’re Ray, that’s walking away. For others, the strategy will be different.

What exactly is the problem with that statement that somehow requires me to “defend” it?

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Just had a super annoying one. No “all offers will be reviewed” in the instructions, BUT there was a Broker’s Open the first day on market and the Listing Agent told all of the agents as they walked in “the owner will be looking at all offers on Monday”. This was Thursday and there was an Open House or two scheduled for the weekend. I saw it immediately as did most any agent who had an actual client who might be interested.

Friday I get a call saying owner has changed their mind about waiting until Tuesday to review offers. I head over with my clients and listing agent must be present at all showings, so I ask when they will be reviewing offers. He says tonight. I ask what time. He looks at me like I have two heads. I said you said offers will be reviewed tonight. He said yes…and Saturday…and Sunday…and whenever. I say…this agent obviously doesn’t know what “when are you reviewing offers?” means.

So we get the offer in and there are 6 offers. Plenty…right? Apparently not. Seller doesn’t choose one or respond at all. Saturday they do the Open House and I wander in like a fly on the wall and hear the agent tell a couple with no agent what the two highest offers are. They are too high. We don’t withdraw our offer, but we don’t change it either. No answer on Saturday. No answer on Sunday. Sunday they still have the same 6 offers they had 2 days ago, but at least 4 of the buyers are totally pissed off. :)

Monday I get a call…finally an answer? No. Agent says seller is calling 3 of the 5 offers (one told them to fluck off on Sunday) to ask if they will pay X which is less than the two highest offers as to cap but almost 10% over asking price. They also want to know if the buyer will pay the difference between appraised value and purchase price in cash without negotiation (without even knowing what the difference is) and they also want to know if the buyer will close ASAP but let the seller stay for 4 to 6 weeks after closing. Not asking for a rent back. No kids in school waiting for the school year to end. Just wanted 30 day escrow PLUS 4 to 5 weeks to take their sweet old time packing and moving.

Agent doesn’t even “get” that she is asking how far the buyer is willing to bend over. Hard not to laugh and say fluck you all at the same time on that one. Funny thing is my client was already in escrow on a different house by the time the seller and agent finished being selfish pickles, but we let it ride just for giggles. Will be interesting to see where that one closes…or if it even makes it past appraisal.

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I think redfinian is spelled with one n.

I like it, this may stick, the redfinians on the offensive!

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What’s the hook this time, be priced out forever? What’s the catch phrase for this, is it feeding frenzy?

I tour every week. This week every house had offers on it, or were excepting offers on Sunday, or Friday. The agents, who have been starving these past three years, are giddy with the activity. Every body I know is busy, and getting to be listless.

Seriously what is the fascination with having to buy crap now? Low interest rates at these prices? It’s insane. Insanity is doing the same things over, and over, and expecting a different outcome.

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When inspections are completed and our represented Buyers want things performed or further concessions of any kind the Seller (now knowing many are waiting in the wings) will have the “control of the deck” if you may….In a depreciating asset environment you NEVER , EVER, give up control of the deck and always should desire to dictate the terms of the purchase…

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I’m not suggesting that if there’s a “all offers, if any, will be reviewed, etc” to not make an offer. What I’m suggesting is to exercise restraint. Over 50 dollars over the asking price if the asking price is at market value. Don’t start salivating , don’t get this idea that you have to “win” this house at any cost. It’s just a house.

I would agree with that.

BTW, a couple of weeks ago I thought that perhaps HUD had started a policy of pricing low to create bidding wars. My search results indicated otherwise (few listings sold over list). I’ll need to check that in a few weeks to see if perhaps it was a very new policy, and not showing up yet in sold listings.

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Bidding wars are a sales technique. .

Not necessarily. If the listing says “offers not reviewed until . . ..” then it likely is setup to get multiple offers. I have not seen that for some time (excluding HUD). Sometimes the listing is just inadvertently priced low (e.g. the agent thinks they need to compete with short sales and REO). Sometimes multiple offers just happen. And often none of the multiple offers are for full price, even in the first situation.

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Let me point out again that people were complaining about the lack of decent inventory in December, and now those same types of properties are hot items.

The pattern is the same, in Spring it’s bidding wars, in Summer it cools, then next fall we are back to people talking about over priced crap. Well that crap is over priced because Spring bounce buyers paid way too much.

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