Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

97 responses to “Poll: If the election were today, I would vote for…”

  1. Kary L. Krismer

    None of the above. I’m still disappointed with there being no Democratic challenge to President Obama, and almost the entire cast in the Republican hunt. It’s hard to believe that’s the best this country has to offer, but I can certainly understand why qualified people wouldn’t want to run, or even be president.

    I like the new thread name. Seemingly almost everyone was ignoring the economic thread for economic issues. I posted something there May 29 and no one responded. The prior post was May 13.

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  2. David Losh

    RE: The Tim @ 1

    It is an election year, and if you would like you could do a data search for what a Presidential election does to the housing market.

    My impressions have been that just like this year there is a lot of anticipation in a Presidential election. We expect things to get better. After the election some disappointment sets in because Congress is ultimately in charge.

    Then you have that period of about the second year after the elcetion when things are either good, or bad, depending on how things are going. We saw that with Obama. Then there is the real game changer of the lame duck, and hope for a new Presidential set of contenders.

    I don’t think you can throw out the Presidential election from Real Estate. It’s just another interesting dynamic

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  3. DanW

    I had to put my marker down on “Can’t vote” although I would have preferred:
    I can’t vote in US elections, but thanks for being sensitive enough to allow me to participate”

    :-).

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  4. toad37

    That many for Obama? Ugh…

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  5. pfft

    By toad37 @ 5:

    That many for Obama? Ugh…

    he’s going to win. get used to it!

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  6. pfft

    By DanW @ 4:

    I had to put my marker down on “Can’t vote” although I would have preferred:
    I can’t vote in US elections, but thanks for being sensitive enough to allow me to participate”

    :-).

    you’re lucky we let you post:)

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  7. Kary L. Krismer

    By toad37 @ 5:

    That many for Obama? Ugh…

    It would be interesting to know how many of the Obama votes are due to not liking Romney and visa versa.

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  8. Ira Sacharoff

    I selected “someone else” because I don’t like either Obama or Romney, but I dislike Romney more. If it appears as though WA state will be close, I may vote for Obama, but with very little enthusiasm. I consider myself an independent, left wing libertarian/anarchist with socialist tendencies. If Obama actually were a socialist, I’d like him more. Unfortunatley, both Obama and Romney are beholden to big money corporate interests. I agree more with Obama’s stances on a woman’s right to choose, gay marriage, and increased taxes for the wealthiest, but outside of a few things, I don’t see a huge difference between the two. But it looks like Obama will take this state, so there’s a good chance I’ll go for Rocky Anderson or Roseann Barr.

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  9. me

    So, I’d vote for Romney, based on the idea alone that -while he appears an absolutely horrible presidential candidate- he is virtually indistinguishable from Obama where his position is concerned, Obama really messed up his first 4 years and voting a guy who has blatantly broken every single promise he got elected on can only send a good signal to future candidates.

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  10. wreckingbull

    The Libertarian party has a pretty interesting candidate for 2012 in Gary Johnson. My guess is that Libertarianism scares many people on this blog, but do yourself a favor and check out his positions. This is no nut-job. This is a two-term governor, successful businessman, and Ironman triathelete.

    Even if he has no chance of winning, I do feel that getting a third candidate in the debates is a good thing, if only to get people thinking outside the current duopoly. Unfortunately, this not likely to happen.

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  11. pfft

    By me @ 10:

    Obama really messed up his first 4 years and voting a guy who has blatantly broken every single promise he got elected on can only send a good signal to future candidates.

    like what?

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  12. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 12:

    By me @ 10:
    Obama really messed up his first 4 years and voting a guy who has blatantly broken every single promise he got elected on can only send a good signal to future candidates.

    like what?

    Close Gitmo
    End partisan politics
    Fix the economy

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  13. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 12 – BTW, while not a campaign promise issue, I do find it interesting how the issue of people in the services dying in war is somehow no longer important for many, now that a Democrat is in office. 13 people were killed in Afghanistan last week. That seemed to be bigger news when it was Bush and Iraq.

    About the only place I see that information now is when it’s someone from Lewis/McCord and on This Week w/ George Stephanopoulos.

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  14. One Eyed Man

    I’m just torn, I can’t decide whether to vote for Obamney or Romama. Their just so different. One has Obamney care and the other has Romama care. One guy believes in a god from outer space whereas the other guy’s an actual alien. One guy wants to borrow from the future and give tax benefits to the rich and the other guy wants to borrow from the future and give entitlement benefits to the poor.

    And their party mascots represent each of them so well. One mascot sports a nose longer than pinocchio and manufactures enough fecal matter each day to manipulate the ISM, and the other one is best known for being stubborn and they don’t even try to hide the fact its an actual ass.

    But I think I’ll hold off on deciding cause I heard that John Edwards might run on a third party ticket now that he’s cleared his name. I’m not sure what the mascot will look like but I heard their going to call the new third party the trowser snakes cause that’s what Edward’s is now best known for and I might join the party cause I really like the idea of being able to tell people at cocktail parties that I’m a trowser snake. And lets face it, he’s got the qualifications to be bestowed the public trust in the nation’s highest office cause nothing quite shows the ability to feign being trustworthy and sincere like cheating on your terminally ill spouse.

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  15. wreckingbull

    RE: me @ 10 – Lexicon Valley recently did a podcast on the recent trend of starting sentences with the conjunction ‘so’. Your post is the first time I have seen it used in written communication. Apparently Microsoft takes credit for this. (No I am not making this up).

    http://boingboing.net/2010/06/17/origins-of-using-so.html

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  16. David Losh

    Obama shot his wad, his whole wad, with pushing forward Health Care Reform which is the single most important issue we now have.

    The military we can manage, at this point, and I have said many times that Obama has handled the military brilliantly. Obama killed militants. Obama has used the resources of the military, listened to military advice, and acted prudently. A topic for another time.

    Social Security still needs to be addressed, and the financial markets keep running amock, but Obama has at least acknowledged the problems rather than ignore them.

    Let me go back to my point that Health Care Reform has been tried by Presidents both Republican, and Democrat. The cost of Health Care is one of the highest expenses we have next to the military. Win, lose, or draw Obama pushed the reform and has taken the heat for it.

    I admire the man for what he has accomplished.

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  17. One Eyed Man

    RE: wreckingbull @ 11

    From Wiki, for those who may not be familiar with Gary Johnson:

    “Political positions
    Main article: Political positions of Gary Johnson
    Johnson holds fiscally conservative, socially libertarian views,[77] and a philosophy of limited government[78] and military noninterventionism.[79][80] Johnson is in favor of simplifying and reducing taxes.[81] During his governorship, Johnson cut taxes fourteen times and never increased them.[82] Due to his stance on taxes, political pundit David Weigel described him as “the original Tea Party candidate”.[83] Johnson supports balancing the federal budget immediately.[84] He supports “slashing government spending”, including Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security entitlements.[81] His plans include cutting Medicare and Medicaid by 43 percent and turning them into block grant programs, with control of spending in the hands of the states to create “fifty laboratories of innovation”.[84] He advocates passing a law allowing for state bankruptcy and expressly ruling out a federal bailout of any states.[78] In his campaign for the Libertarian Party nomination, he stated he opposed foreign wars and pledged to cut the military budget by 43 percent in his first budget as president.[80] He would cut the military’s overseas bases, uniformed and civilian personnel, research and development, intelligence, and nuclear weapons programs.[85] [86] He is opposed to the United States’ involvement in the War in Afghanistan and the Libyan Civil War.[87] He has stated that he does not believe Iran is a military threat, would use his presidential power to prevent Israel from attacking Iran, and would not follow Israel, or any other ally, into a war that it had initiated.[88] Johnson is a strong supporter of civil liberties and received the highest score of any candidate from the American Civil Liberties Union for supporting drug decriminalization and online freedom while opposing USA PATRIOT, enhanced airport screenings, and the indefinite detention of prisoners.[89] Johnson endorsed same-violent love marriage in 2011;[90] he has since called for a constitutional amendment protecting marriage rights,[90] and criticized President Obama’s position on the issue as to have “thrown this question back to the states.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor_Gary_Johnson

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  18. StillRenting

    RE: The Tim @ 1

    It’s going to be a long five months.

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  19. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 17:

    Obama shot his wad, his whole wad, with pushing forward Health Care Reform which is the single most important issue we now have.

    No, bringing the economy back was and is the most important issue.

    Although I guess that might not be the case if someone thinks that government can just give unemployed people medical care.

    Obama went with what he hoped would be legacy legislation at the expense of putting people back to work.

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  20. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 21

    That is just a random thought. He took a chance with legislation that pertains to one of the major employers for baby boomers. Health care is a huge industry that will continue to grow.

    I could explain to you how that can work, ObamaCare, to every one’s benefit, but we would need to get private insurance out of the way first.

    Employment is not today’s issue. There is plenty to do, the problem is the private sector makes more money with cheap money, than actually being productive.

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  21. ChrisM

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 18 – Johnson just hoist himself on his own petard…

    http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/06/how-libertarian-is-gary-johnson.html

    I would argue those considering voting for Johnson would do better to write in Paul.

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  22. Natalia Orinko

    RE: The Tim @ 1

    “Open Thread” implies anything goes. So change it if you must to “Open Thread – Real Estate Only” if you must. But I think that will be boring. Natasha.

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  23. Natalia Orinko

    RE: pfft @ 6

    “He’s (Obama) going to win, get used to it.”

    Really?? Are you a betting man, Pfft? Let’s make a wager. Natasha.

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  24. jesus christ

    RON PAUL !

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  25. ricklind

    By Natalia Orinko @ 24:

    RE: The Tim @ 1

    “Open Thread” implies anything goes. So change it if you must to “Open Thread – Real Estate Only” if you must. But I think that will be boring. Natasha.

    What she said!
    Rick

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  26. WestSideBilly

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 21 – At his inauguration, the stimulus passed by W was supposed to be enough to kick start the economy (which was plausible if you are bad at math).

    From a hypothetical standpoint, Obama would have been better off focusing 100% on the economy, passing more stimulus and whatnot, and hopefully gaining enough seats in 2010 to skip Obamacare and go straight to single payer. But then again, Obama isn’t actually a liberal, so I doubt that was ever considered.

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  27. WestSideBilly

    And my 2 euros worth of thought on the election:

    I wish I had the slightest clue what Romney we’ll get if he wins the election. Will we get the pragmatic moderate governor? Or will we get the tea-party/Grover Norquist/Fox News beholden primary winner? Or will we get an etch a sketch who just does whatever it takes to “win” the next round?

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  28. Pegasus

    RE: The Tim @ 1 – It would be easier if you just banned Kary and pfft from spitting back and forth clogging the discussions. :0)

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  29. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2

    I’m With You “None of the Above”

    Even a 3rd party vote , ends up in the favoring of one of the horrifying two parties.

    I am voting down all initiatives pegging more property tax on lower 3 year averaged Seattle area home prices….the rest of my ballot will be blank, unless a politician will step up to the plate and limit tax resources/growth. Blue moon chance of that happenning.

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  30. Kary L. Krismer

    By WestSideBilly @ 31:

    And my 2 euros worth of thought on the election:

    I wish I had the slightest clue what Romney we’ll get if he wins the election. Will we get the pragmatic moderate governor?

    First, I have no idea why someone would thumb down this post. Odd.

    As to the point, I strongly suspect Romney is a moderate, but I’m basing that primarily on his having been Governor of Massachusetts. I wouldn’t base anything on positions taken during the primary. Candidates in both parties run to the extremes during the primary and then to the center during the general election. They can do that because people have very short memories.

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  31. David Losh

    RE: David Losh @ 22

    Probably it’s the employment promises that have people willing to vote for Romney.

    The problems we have with the economy here, in the United States, have to do with Asia, and Europe. You may think our banking sector has it bad with those foreclosures, but in Asia, and Europe there are millions, if not billions of people buried in debt. The same thing is happening now with “emerging markets” that are booming with credit fueled purchases from the consumer sector.

    I only picture Romney on the international stage where I see him looking like an empty suit talking about job creation.

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  32. David Losh

    RE: Natalia Orinko @ 25

    I’ll take the bet, only because I think there is something wrong with Romney. As we get closer to election time I feel there must be some skeletons in the closet we will discover.

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  33. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 35:

    RE: David Losh @ 22 – Probably it’s the employment promises that have people willing to vote for Romney.

    Well it surely isn’t is personality.

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  34. jesus christ

    sorry Tim, netbook siezed-unintentionally over entered message to the sheeple.
    thanks for all you do!
    -end the fed

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  35. uwp

    By David Losh @ 36:

    I’ll take the bet, only because I think there is something wrong with Romney. As we get closer to election time I feel there must be some skeletons in the closet we will discover.

    October Surprise: Romney had a cup of regular coffee once in 1978. Thought it was decafe.

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  36. Ross

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 13:

    By pfft @ 12:
    By me @ 10:
    Obama really messed up his first 4 years and voting a guy who has blatantly broken every single promise he got elected on can only send a good signal to future candidates.

    like what?

    Close Gitmo
    End partisan politics
    Fix the economy

    In reverse order:

    1) Fixing the economy was never going to be easy since it took 30 years of increasing corporate influence over regulation to get us to the point where wall street shenanigans could put the whole world into a as-yet-unacknowledged depression. We’re here because over and over again, the government incentivized debt in one form or another to prop up consumption. Eventually, the cost of servicing the debt caught up and now we’re stuck on it. Debt is attractive government policy because it allows the factors (campaign contributors) to fleece the debtors, which we’re seeing, but getting out of the situation requires massive deleveraging and elimination of incentives for more debt, which isn’t appealing to those who are still fleecing the middle class for every last penny of wealth they’ve accumulated.

    Obama can’t get there (to a deleveraged state) from here. Not with congress bought and paid for by interests who want anything but deleveraging.

    2) End partisan politics would require a good faith effort on both sides. The Republicans would clearly rather let America burn than let it go on record that they agreed with Obama on any substantial issue. At some point I got annoyed with Obama continually reaching out to the Republicans, getting nothing in return, compromising to make the proposal even more right wing, still getting nothing, and then caving. On the debt limit, on taxes over and over again, on healthcare (the R answer to single payer was the individual mandate that works really, really well in MA).

    At this point, bipartisanship in the Federal Government is when a few dems cross the line to join with the Rep block. Never the other way.

    3) Close Gitmo. 100% agreement. This was a pure leadership moment, and like the perpetual compromising with no reasonable expectation of positive outcome, he dropped the ball.

    Let’s not forget ending the unfunded Bush tax cuts, respecting the rule of law again (ending the PATRIOT ACT and FISA-less warrant-less wiretapping), stopping the reclassification of libraries of documents that have been public for decades, etc.

    Obama has been a nice-guy weak-leadership disaster. The big problem I have with the current election is that in every way that Romney is different from Obama, Romney is worse. So even though I would love for Obama to be a one-term president, I’m not sure I can take the risk of my voice going to support “even worse”.

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  37. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Ross @ 40 -I agree with you from #3 (Gitmo) on. #1 and #2 have recently been addressed in the political thread. To summarize I would agree that recovery would be expected to take time, but that doesn’t excuse doing things that harm the economy like passing Obamacare, constantly threatening tax increases (which slow growth without any increased revenue), and being generally anti-business. You don’t do things to harm the economy when it’s fragile.

    As to #2, while what the Republicans are doing is bad, the Democrats are not without blame on the partisan politics. For that I pointed out their attitude in early 2009 of “We won the election.” When someone takes that attitude and cuts the other party out almost entirely for two years, they really shouldn’t be too surprised about that other party’s attitude when the voters vote them into power two years later. Stated somewhat differently, both parties took the election results where they won as being some sort of a mandate, and that has lead to partisan politics.

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  38. joe dirt

    RE: toad37 @ 5

    Why change when things are going so well?

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  39. patient

    Romney sounds worse than Obama but voting for Obama would be endorsing failure and supporting policies that has resulted in what is likely the biggest robbery in history of tax payers in order to save and fill the pockets of the richest. I just can’t do that. Rewarding poltical failure results in more failures just as rewarding financial failures. The people need to show where the real power lies in a democracy lies and who the gov. works for even if the price is a republican prez. With his outdated views on social issues I’m pretty sure I’ll be voting against Romney the next time.

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  40. Kary L. Krismer

    By patient @ 43:

    With his outdated views on social issues I’m pretty sure I’ll be voting against Romney the next time.

    I think you’re grossly underestimating the ability of the political parties to pick unappealing candidates in 2016. ;-)

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  41. mmmarvel

    While I’m not a huge Romney supporter, I AM a HUGE anybody-but-obama supporter. I’d vote for Tim’s dog or that dust bunny under my desk before I’d vote for Obama. He took the worst president of the United States (Jimmy Carter) and outdid him, a feat I didn’t think was possible. After four miserable years under BO, I see no reason to re-up his contract, as Trump likes to say, “Obama, you’re fired.”

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  42. Julie Lyda, RE/MAX Northwest Realtors

    I’m watching the Ron Paul supporters infiltrate the GOP. It’s going to be an interesting National GOP Convention in August.

    The amount of corruption in the old guard GOP is pretty revolting. I’ve been watching live feeds on the conventions the last few weekends and let me tell you several have turned into fisticuffs.

    Just this weekend in the Louisiana the old GOP committee chairman tried to have the newly elected GOP chairman ejected by security guards because he was unhappy with the decision and the security guards dislocated his newly installed hip, while the platform chairman had his fingers broken. Meanwhile the rest of the delegates turned their chairs around and ignored the old GOP and held their own convention with the newly installed delegates, while the new chairman layed on the floor waiting for an ambulance. I kid you not!

    This same scenaior is playing out State after State…. it’s my new soap opera.

    Even though Romney gets the popular (beauty pagent vote) Ron Paul is gaining delegates.

    I suggest everyone tune into the National GOP convention in August, it should be quite the show.

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  43. uwp

    If Ron Paul delegates make some play at the convention it will certainly be something to watch. Paul has more things to worry about (ie. his son’s political future), but the True Believers can’t be controlled.

    I thought the hilarity would end when Romney clinched last week. The 2012 (R) Primary is truly the gift that keeps giving.

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  44. willgetsome

    “Even though Romney gets the popular (beauty pagent vote) Ron Paul is gaining delegates.”

    You Paul supporters are nuts. Come back to reality. Paul has won ZERO states. His delegate count gives him NOTHING.

    Anyhow, I’m not sure it’s good practice to mix politics and business. I’d think twice to have you as my agent given your rant.

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  45. willgetsome

    “Obama has been a nice-guy weak-leadership disaster. The big problem I have with the current election is that in every way that Romney is different from Obama, Romney is worse. ”

    I would argue that Obama has NOT been a nice guy as you say. He’s thin skinned, highly partisan, and ever so much the stereotypical politician. He’s nothing like he was marketed to be back in 2008. And that’s the problem with Obama: Hope and Change has been replaced by a campaign strategy for 2012 that’s all about dividing people on socio, ethinic, and economic terms.

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  46. willgetsome

    “Obama has been a nice-guy weak-leadership disaster. The big problem I have with the current election is that in every way that Romney is different from Obama, Romney is worse. ”

    I would argue that Obama has NOT been the “nice guy” you claim him to be. He’s thin skinned, highly partisan, and ever so much the stereotypical politician. He’s nothing like he was marketed to be back in 2008. And that’s the problem with Obama: Hope and Change has been replaced by a campaign strategy for 2012 that’s all about dividing people on socio, ethinic, and economic terms.

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  47. willgetsome

    “I’ll take the bet, only because I think there is something wrong with Romney.” – Losh

    Like what? He’s competent? He’s successful in things other than running for the next political office? Praytell what?

    You Obama supporters need to run on Obama’s record, not some fantasy you have concocted in your heads that Romney is something evil or that he’s hiding something in a closet.

    Honestly, some of you folks know politics even less than you know housing.

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  48. David Losh

    RE: willgetsome @ 51

    Romney has been trotted out several times as Presidential material, only to be lead back to the stable.

    I don’t see him as competent, or Presidential. It will depend on his choice of running mate, and if he can get the Republican Party to support him. So far he lacks leadership within his Party, but that just may be there were so many canidates vying for the position.

    I’ll expand once again that Obama has done much more than I ever expected. He has shown great leadership at his own political expense. What’s interesting is that people think he should have done more. I never expected him to do anything.

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  49. Axion

    “I’ll expand once again that Obama has done much more than I ever expected. He has shown great leadership at his own political expense.”

    Spoken like a true Seattle Liberal. Obama exists because people have fawned all over him (like you I gather), told him how wonderful he is even though he has done NOTHING other than getting elected to the next political office. And now that he has no higher office to run for, he’s showing his incompetence.

    Nothing better proves my point than the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE that he won based not on a lifetime of good deeds, but merely words. Mere speculation. How ironic that the Nobel Peace Prize winner has a secret KILL LIST (as previous Presidents have had), but ironic nonetheless. The NYT gave him kudos for it, but this is the same news organization that hated the previous President for such lists. Oh the Liberal hypocrisy.

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  50. Axion

    “Probably it’s the employment promises that have people willing to vote for Romney. ”

    LOL

    No, its the unemployment promises made by Obama’s team BEFORE they spent nearly 1T in stimulus. It’s the promises made by Obama on green energy, new tone, fiscal responsibility, Gitmo, etc. etc.

    It’s Obama’s failures that leave Romney open for consideration.

    Just look at Wisconsin…where’s Obama?

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  51. David Losh

    RE: Axion @ 54RE: Axion @ 53

    Obama did kill a lot of militants, that is true, so what? My question is if the world is a safer place with Obama. I think it is.

    Obama managed the wars in Iraq, and Afganistan according to military advice. No fan fare simple concise management of kill operations while we withdrew troops.

    Miltarily it looks like Obama gave us victories where before we only saw defeats. The strange thing about war is that only history will tell if my impressions are correct.

    I like the way Obama has handled Isreal, Iran, Libya, especially, and Syria.

    What I really liked was when he brought that CEO from BP in off his yacht to ask him for billions of dollars, and when the heck was he going to fix the oil spill.

    I like the way he took the Supreme Court to task, chastized Congress, and has given us honest State of the Union Adresses.

    Then you interject Wisconsin? Do you think the President of the United States should engage is side show Tea Party politics?

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  52. Kary L. Krismer

    By willgetsome @ 49:

    “Obama has been a nice-guy weak-leadership disaster. The big problem I have with the current election is that in every way that Romney is different from Obama, Romney is worse. ”

    I would argue that Obama has NOT been a nice guy as you say. He’s thin skinned, highly partisan, and ever so much the stereotypical politician. He’s nothing like he was marketed to be back in 2008. And that’s the problem with Obama: Hope and Change has been replaced by a campaign strategy for 2012 that’s all about dividing people on socio, ethinic, and economic terms.

    I would agree with you, but I don’t think that’s what whoever you quoted was getting at. I suspect they were talking about social policies, and perhaps taxation policies.

    I wouldn’t agree with their analysis of what President Obama has become, but I can see the other point of view where you might not like President Obama, but also don’t like Romney due to his position on maybe 1-5 issues which are important to you.

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  53. Kary L. Krismer

    By willgetsome @ 48:

    “Even though Romney gets the popular (beauty pagent vote) Ron Paul is gaining delegates.”

    You Paul supporters are nuts. Come back to reality. Paul has won ZERO states. His delegate count gives him NOTHING.

    I’m not entirely sure, but I think it may give him some pull in developing the party platform.

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  54. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 55:

    RE: Axion @ 54RE: Axion @ 53

    Obama did kill a lot of militants, that is true, so what? My question is if the world is a safer place with Obama. I think it is.

    Obama managed the wars in Iraq, and Afganistan according to military advice. No fan fare simple concise management of kill operations while we withdrew troops.

    Miltarily it looks like Obama gave us victories where before we only saw defeats. The strange thing about war is that only history will tell if my impressions are correct.

    I like the way Obama has handled Isreal, Iran, Libya, especially, and Syria.

    What I really liked was when he brought that CEO from BP in off his yacht to ask him for billions of dollars, and when the heck was he going to fix the oil spill.

    I like the way he took the Supreme Court to task, chastized Congress, and has given us honest State of the Union Adresses.

    Then you interject Wisconsin? Do you think the President of the United States should engage is side show Tea Party politics?

    Wiilgetsome above referenced the fantasy view of Obama held by some Seattle Democrats. This post just screams of that fantasy!

    President Obama just concluded the Iraq war in the way the table was set for him by President Bush. About the only thing he did differently was getting us kicked out of the country entirely, except for our embassy.

    Then President Obama took the strategy which he was critical of in Iraq, and applied it to Afghanistan, to very uncertain results, but that is somehow genius in the eyes of a Seattle Democrat.

    Then we have this:

    I like the way Obama has handled Isreal, Iran, Libya, especially, and Syria.

    I’m not really sure what the reference is to Isreal, but he’s accomplished nothing on Iran, purposefully did next to nothing on Libya to the point where now those in power there don’t like us so much, and has done nothing on Syria while people are slaughtered. So apparently what Dave likes is a policy of doing little or nothing and accomplishing the same! That seems to be more of a Libertarian view of the world, so it’s somewhat surprising a Democrat holds those views, but in David’s case he holds those views because he has this fantasy that President Obama has accomplished something in those areas.

    Then he thinks that President Obama publicly chastising the head of BP somehow accomplished something. Rather obviously BP had no incentive before that to stop the leak. /sarc

    Then there’s President Obama on the Supreme Court. Somehow trying to embarrass and pressure the members of the Supreme Court at the State of the Union address is a good thing. Currently he’s likely regretting trying to support his anti-First Amendment positions given that he’s relying on that same court to uphold his signature legislation–Obamacare. That was rather a rookie move. And Dave, did you already forget the Law Professor President claiming that the Supreme Court doesn’t have the power to overturn Obamacare? Another great move. /sarc

    Finally, Dave thinks that a recall election organized by unions targeting a Republican governor is Tea Party politics. That just makes me smile.

    Yep, that’s the fantasy world of the Seattle partisan Democrat. Not that the fantasy world of a partisan Republican would be any more accurate.

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  55. Kary L. Krismer

    This is relevant to this discussion, so I won’t post it in the politics thread.

    This article covers statistics on how the US has become more partisan over the past two decades. It charts the issue in two different ways.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/how-americans-have-become-more-polarized-in-two-charts/2012/06/05/gJQA255pFV_blog.html

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  56. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 58

    Number one President Bush didn’t outline a withdrawl from unpopular wars, the military did.

    We seem to forget why we invaded Iraq with shock, and awe. Do you recall why we invaded a country that had nothing to do with the bombing of the World Trade Centers? Were we looking for weapons of mass destruction or fulfilling a promise to President Bush’s dad?

    When we did get around to Afganistan we were mired in the same war Russia fought, until President Obama began open, hostile, cross border attacks into Pakistan.

    It’s funny how selective memories are when it comes to war. Obama targeted enemy combatants. It was a bold move, that bolstered our military. We began winning victories while we were withdrawing in defeat. Any mission accomplished is do to Obama refocussing the wars on killing people responsible for attacking the United States.

    As far as Libya goes that selective memory seems to be working the same way. On one hand Obama should have never supported the uprising in Libya, and in the other hand Obama did nothing. Well which is it?

    That selective memory is also working when BP, and the Republican Party wanted to make Obama to blame for the oil spill. Obama refocussed the oil spill back to BP.

    The Supreme Court needs to be taken to task for what you call a First Amendment issue.

    The Tea Party is a side show. As near as I can figure this guy in Wisconsin is just that, a side show, with no political purpose. I don’t get why Obama would be involved.

    This President has performed well. I’m proud of him, and proud of the role the United States has in the world. We are a strong nation with, right now the strongest economy.

    Take a look around. Look at the economic mess that there is in the world. You want Obama to do more when the private sector, the corporations, the financial markets only want more hand outs. If Obama caves, if Romney were to cave in, our economy would tank.

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  57. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 60:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 58

    Number one President Bush didn’t outline a withdrawl from unpopular wars, the military did.

    We seem to forget why we invaded Iraq with shock, and awe. Do you recall why we invaded a country that had nothing to do with the bombing of the World Trade Centers? Were we looking for weapons of mass destruction or fulfilling a promise to President Bush’s dad?.

    Thank you for admitting that the bulk of the withdrawal plans were done during the Bush presidency. Interesting how President Obama gets credit in your mind for what occurred during his term, but President Bush doesn’t.

    As to the second paragraph, you have something in common with President Obama. You too “Hope to Change the Topic!”

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  58. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 60:

    When we did get around to Afganistan we were mired in the same war Russia fought, until President Obama began open, hostile, cross border attacks into Pakistan.

    Talk about selective memory. Do you really think that President Bush didn’t do anything in Pakistan?

    http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2011/08/10/the-bush-years-2004-2009/

    BTW, how did President Obama’s strikes into Pakistan affect the delivery of supplies for the military through Pakistan?

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  59. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 60:

    As far as Libya goes that selective memory seems to be working the same way. On one hand Obama should have never supported the uprising in Libya, and in the other hand Obama did nothing. Well which is it?

    HUh? Who has ever said President Obama should have never supported the uprising in Libya? I’m not even sure Ron Paul went that far.

    Otherwise, nice non-response.

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  60. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 60:

    The Tea Party is a side show. As near as I can figure this guy in Wisconsin is just that, a side show, with no political purpose. I don’t get why Obama would be involved.

    Wow. The people of a state elect a governor, and then if you believe the polls, support that governor in a recall election, and you call it a side show just because you don’t agree with the politics?

    I don’t like his politics either, but I wouldn’t call it a side show. If you want to see what a side show is, just look at the Occupy movement. That’s a side show.

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  61. Dirty Renter

    RE: mmmarvel @ 45 -
    I agree that Oblamer is in the running for ‘Worst President Ever’…but I feel Bush2 still has a firm grip on the tiara.
    I know it sounds corny but I think Clinton & Bush1 were really good El Presidentes.

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  62. mmmarvel

    RE: pfft @ 12

    Let me count the ways -

    He pledged to cut the defict in half by the end of his first term – when he took office the deficit was $10 trillion and now it’s $15.7 trillion

    He pledged to close GITMO by the end of his first year in office, it’s still open

    Unemployment was 7.9% when he took office, using the same way of calculating unemployment (which really doesn’t count all the unemployed) it’s now 8.3%

    When he took office there were 28.2 million people on food stamps, at the end of his first term we have 46.2 million on food stamps

    When he took office gas was $2.50 a gallon, at the end of his first term its $3.68 a gallon

    When he took office a pound of ground beef was $2.35 now it’s $3.00

    When he took office a pound of bacon was $3.75 now it’s $4.60

    When he took office a loaf of bread cost $1.97 now it’s $2.05

    When he took office there were 18.5 million familes without savings, at the end of his first year we have 23.4 million without savings

    And YOU want to give him four MORE years??? Really??

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  63. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: mmmarvel @ 66 – I have a hard time seeing how President Obama is responsible for the price of gas, beef, bread and whatever else you mentioned. On the gas thing, first it’s an international market. Second, the world was entering into recession when he took office, and that meant lower prices.

    If the economy of the world were striking on all calendars, that would be a good thing, but it would probably also mean gas at over $5.00 a gallon.

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  64. Kary L. Krismer

    On the topic of Drone strikes, Colbert had some pretty hard hitting commentary recently. I couldn’t find it yesterday because from the tone I recalled it being Jon Stewart.

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/414704/may-31-2012/the-word—two-birds-with-one-drone

    “Higher standard than Texas!” :-)

    And:

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/414703/may-31-2012/barack-obama-s-righteous-drone-strikes

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  65. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 61

    Bush gets full credit for Iraq. Shock, and awe will go down in history as a major military blunder.

    What Saddam promised was the Mother of all Wars, and that is what we got. We were defeated in Iraq before Bush left office, and Obama promised to get us out, which he did.

    Obama promised to focus on Afghanistan which he did. We are also leaving that country after killing off any chance Al Ouida has of recovery.

    You can’t change failed military policy. A President can change focus, and kill off the enemy.

    Boots on the ground military strategy is a hold over from WWII, we saw it Viet Nam. It’s great for the economy, but kills way too many soldiers. There again we had the National Guard in Iraq, so the soldier thing is kind of a stretch.

    Iraq was a disaster from beginning to end, and yes Bush gets credit for that. It was just another thing for Obama to clean up.

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  66. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 64

    Why would a President of the United States get involved in a recall election? How would that be in the least bit Presidential? So why bring it up?

    Unions? That will be a topic for another time, maybe in a full employment discussion.

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  67. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 62

    Did you read the link, or just post it because you think it shows something?

    Bush allowed the military, and CIA to run amock. It was one disaster after another.

    Obama refocussed our efforts across the Middle East, because it is a regional set of issues.

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  68. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 68

    My ultimate question is how you have the time to make these random comments about what you read in the daily paper. How could anyone have this much time on their hands?

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  69. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 72:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 68

    My ultimate question is how you have the time to make these random comments about what you read in the daily paper. How could anyone have this much time on their hands?

    Another example of Hope to Change the Topic!

    If you knew anything about real estate, you would know that real estate agents don’t tend to only take off Saturday and Sunday.

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  70. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 71:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 62 – Bush allowed the military, and CIA to run amock. It was one disaster after another.

    So in other words, drone strikes under President Bush bad, drone strikes under President Obama good.

    Way to demonstrate that you’re not a partisan Seattle Democrat. Keep it up! /sarc

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  71. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 70:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 64

    Why would a President of the United States get involved in a recall election? How would that be in the least bit Presidential? So why bring it up?

    Ask Axion, who brought it up. Why did you respond to it if you think it’s irrelevant?

    Some see it as an indicator of the upcoming election. I don’t.

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  72. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 73

    That is the point, you are the only Real Estate agent I know who is less than extremely busy.

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  73. me

    RE: Drone strikes/enemy combatants and “winning victories”

    Read Greenwald on the issue. Essentially, we’re randomly bombing villages and anyone who gets killed is labelled a “militant”. You could do the same thing in the states to “combat crime”, with about as much effectivity.

    http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/

    Personally, I’d vote Obama out even with a horrible candidate like Romney replacing him because politicians need to learn that if they mess with their base and renege on their primary campaign promises, they don’t last.

    The thing that clinches it for me are the civil rights violations and the shredding of the constitution and its guarantees under this theoretically “left/liberal” president.

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  74. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 74

    Read your link again, then my comments. Obama refocussed the drone strikes, coupled with special forces strikes, like the ones that killed Bin Laden, and rescued the aid workers in Somalia.

    The signifigance of Obama’s action, and again today by killing al-Qaida’s second-in-command, shows the focus I was referring to.

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  75. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 76:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 73

    That is the point, you are the only Real Estate agent I know who is less than extremely busy.

    LOL. I really doubt you even know any real estate agents, and if you did, I doubt you’d have any way of knowing how busy there were. And again, if you understood real estate you would understand what a real estate agent does during the day. But, no, you don’t understand real estate.

    But hey, nice attempt to change the topic (again). Interesting that in the other thread you think the economy is falling apart. I’m surprised that isn’t yet another area you think President Obama has done a fantastic job, notwithstanding the actual facts.

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  76. David Losh

    RE: me @ 77

    Your link froze my computer, and is riddled with pop ups, but I agree that the drone attacks did target random villagers for a very long time. You will find that in the links Kary posted.

    I am interested in the civil rights violations, because that may be a talking point or two.

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  77. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 79

    Kary this is the topic.

    Obviously you gave a lot of thought to your comments today, did research, and have spent a lot of time here.

    I’m curious how you have the time when there is so much to do in today’s market place.

    If it were just today, maybe, but it is all day every day.

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  78. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 78:

    The signifigance of Obama’s action, and again today by killing al-Qaida’s second-in-command, shows the focus I was referring to.

    Per the second Colbert link about, Bush took out two number 2′s, and with today’s news, Obama has taken out 3.

    Personally I think it’s just propaganda. No doubt they are high value targets, but placing a number on them is a bit of a joke.

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  79. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 81:

    Obviously you gave a lot of thought to your comments today, did research, and have spent a lot of time here.

    Finding links to support things doesn’t take a heck of a lot of time when you know what you’re talking about. I can see why it would take you a lot longer.

    If it were just today, maybe, but it is all day every day.

    Exactly. In the last 6 weeks or so I’ve found three buyers properties. That’s extremely time consuming in this market. But I’ve still been able to post here every day. Just further proof you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I will say though that when all three were actively looking I didn’t have the luxury of taking a day off, like today.

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  80. ChrisM

    RE: David Losh @ 80 – “Your link froze my computer, and is riddled with pop ups”

    Link works fine for me, w/ no pop-ups, but then again I’m using NoScript and AdBlock Plus… Might want to give them a try.

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  81. David Losh

    RE: ChrisM @ 84

    I can’t get it to work, but I get the idea.

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  82. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 79

    How long have you been married to your current wife?

    Yes, that is very much to the point.

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  83. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 83

    I find that very disconcerting that you would be representing buyers.

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  84. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 86:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 79

    How long have you been married to your current wife?

    Yes, that is very much to the point.

    Wow, do you know no limits at your attempt to change the topic when you’re arguments are proven wrong? None of your F’n business, but much longer than I’ve been an agent if that’s what you’re getting at.

    And BTW, my current wife is my only wife. Yet another thing you don’t know about.

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  85. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 87:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 83

    I find that very disconcerting that you would be representing buyers.

    That’s fine. I find it very disconcerting that someone who is so ignorant of real estate issues managed to pass the real estate licensing test. Proof more was needed before they raised the standards. You don’t know anything at all about real estate.

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  86. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 88

    Number one this is politics so in politics there is no right or wrong, only opinions.

    However you challenged me about my knowledge of Real Estate agents, and your wife is a Real Estate agent. Your wife does business, good business.

    However it seems to me she has been an agent for a long time.

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  87. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 90:

    However it seems to me she has been an agent for a long time.

    Do you really not know how to look these things up? She’s been an agent about a year longer than me.

    I’ve told people that when she became an agent, that due to the crazy hours I either had to join her or divorce her.

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  88. me

    Apologies to anyone who had issues with the salon link (for the record: I’ve never seen popups from that site, my only gripe is that they require you to click “Continue reading” to get to the actual article. David – you might want to have your computer checked for viruses and disable all browser plugins; alternatively, if your version of adobe flash is out of date, I’ve seen that type of thing cause plenty of trouble in the past).

    RE: Civil rights violations: military tribunals, process-free assassination, etc. pp.

    I’ll quote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpFOh-FZcpc and http://www.salon.com/2012/04/20/obamas_dismal_civil_liberties_record/ which pretty much sum it up.

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  89. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: me @ 92 – With killing American citizens abroad, I should add the 5th, 6th and 7th Amendments to the list of amendments President Obama is attacking.

    So let’s see the list. So far he’s attacking:

    1. Free speech, with some Democrats even calling for an amendment to the Constitution to restrict free speech rights. (1st Amendment)

    2. Freedom of religion. (1st Amendment)

    3. Due Process. (5th Amendment)

    4. Right to a trial by jury. (7th Amendment) (Replaced by trial by a drone of your fears.)

    5. Right to a speedy trial. (6th Amendment) (Replaced by trial by explosive fire.)

    6. Rights reserved to the states (10th Amendment).

    Surprisingly he’s done relatively little against the 2nd Amendment, but that hasn’t stopped the NRA from using him as a fund raising tool.

    Imagine what he would be doing if he wasn’t an extremely liberal Democrat. /sarc

    Imagine what he would be doing if he hadn’t been a Con Law professor. /sarc

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  90. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 91

    It seems she has been around longer, so I was thinking she had a maiden name she used for Real Estate.

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  91. David Losh

    RE: me @ 92

    My computer has a ton of protection from spammers. I don’t mess with it to accommodate sites.

    I’m familiar with the site, and get the gist of it.

    Obama killed people, and is continuing to kill people.

    What the liberal base doesn’t like is that we set a military machine in motion, and kept it in motion, for as bad as it was, for ten years. The military operations were a disaster until Obama took office, and started killing people. Obama targeted a terrorist network, and continues to hunt terrorists no matter where they are.

    I mentioned the rescue effort in Somalia specifically because it was a tangible military operation on the heels of killing Bin Laden. It showed we will go where we need to when we need to.

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  92. me

    Ah, but how do we determine where we need to go and when we need to go? I specifically ask because right now the way we identify terrorists and militants is “we killed you, so you are by definition one of those”. (And no, I am not making this up, this is from the article about how hard our president thinks when selecting Americans for kill-on-sight orders in the NYT. What are these “trials” and “due process” you speak of?).

    If you let me loose with a shotgun and that mission in Downtown Redmond, I bet I can score up to 50 combatants an hour. More if I get to use a gunship.

    That’s how far we’ve fallen. I fondly remember the finale of a cheesy 80-ies SF series that had the hero finally capturing the commander of the murderous cannibalistic aliens and how they made about 5 minutes worth of a point of how they were going to put her on a fair trial because in America, even the worst of the terrorists get their day in court.

    Also: note, the above is an hypothetical application of the administrations current policies to a domestic situation to demonstrate the absurdity thereof. Sad that that has to be said.

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  93. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 95:

    I’m familiar with the site, and get the gist of it.

    Obama killed people, and is continuing to kill people.

    What the liberal base doesn’t like is that we set a military machine in motion, and kept it in motion, for as bad as it was, for ten years. The military operations were a disaster until Obama took office, and started killing people..

    Wow. Just wow.

    That’s really carrying “Obama did it so it’s great” a long way.

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