Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

903 responses to “Politics & Economics Open Thread”

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  1. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 495:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 492 – I understand why some folks aren’t, too. And frankly, their logic is superior to that of pro-choice folks. At least they seem to have thought things through. It always amazes me when pro-choice folks could care less to address the question of when life begins.

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 490:

    By whatsmyname @ 484:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 470
    Kary,

    If you will look again at comment #67, I think that you will see it is not intended as a serious argument. I am answering a cheap shot with a cheap shot. I like to keep things symmetrical.

    Yes, but if jokes are repeated often enough, soon they become fact. Like turning “mission accomplished” into “everything is fine in Iraq, we can go home soon.”

    But more to the point, the “legitimate rape” comment, rather than being mocked as absurd, should be turned against the speaker as arguments against his position. Also, the very fact the phrase is used shows the speaker has thought of the adverse consequences of their policy, and simply doesn’t care.

    keep in mind that while abortion views both anti-abortion and pro-choice are deeply held views AND can be used as issues to win elections. So a anti-abortion or pro-choice view can turn stridently anti-abortion or stridently pro-chioce if a candidate sees that holding that position can get them elected.

    EDIT: somehow I responded to the wrong post of yours.

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  2. pfft

    The “Princeton Election Consortium” has Obama at a 88% chance of being re-elected and a 96% chance of being elected based on different models.

    http://election.princeton.edu/

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  3. whatsmyname
  4. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 99 – Define when the fertilized egg is human. And please do not tell me intent is a factor. There have been cases where folks were charged with muder in the death of a fetus at an earlier age than could be aborted.

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  5. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 504

    Viability is when the fetus can mature on its own.

    The next argument is Euthanasia, let’s get started on that.

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  6. Scotsman

    For the children, or the fascist youth group of the future? Those smiles, the passion, the complete and utter cluelessness- vote for dear leader:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fwlW4lx6TTo#!

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  7. Blurtman

    Not my area of expertise, but I think you may have to define “mature on its own.” Would that excude ventillators?

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  8. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 1:

    keep in mind that while abortion views both anti-abortion and pro-choice are deeply held views AND can be used as issues to win elections. So a anti-abortion or pro-choice view can turn stridently anti-abortion or stridently pro-chioce if a candidate sees that holding that position can get them elected..

    Yes, but even for President it’s pretty irrelevant. As I mentioned before, the next term might involve two appointments. Those appointments might not vote on the abortion issue the way each side thinks they might.

    If you get to the Senator position, there the candidate will only have a minor impact on who is appointed to the Supreme Court. If you go to the House, no impact whatsoever.

    But I agree abortion can be an issue that affects votes. Many if not most people have their one issue which is very important to them. For NRA members it’s often gun control. There almost every non-local elected position can be important, especially in states which don’t have preemption provisions.

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  9. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: whatsmyname @ 3 – BTW, last week Colbert had five examples of Republicans using rape arguments in what could only be described as awkward at best. Three of them were horrendous, but I’ve only heard of them there. The two that made the mainstream press (“legitimate rape” and “God intended”) were minor in comparison. One was something to the effect that the woman was “very rapeable.” or something.

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  10. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 5:

    The next argument is Euthanasia, let’s get started on that.

    Okay. Some people want to force their religious views on others, such that you have to treat family members (or yourself) worse than you would treat your cat.

    Fortunately, Washington voters are smarter than that.

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  11. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 507

    It’s a dilemma, but we are past the point of go out and multiple.

    What we need to do is concentrate on violent love, and the use of condoms. For me that is the best solution that was proposed in the 1980s and has gone nowhere since. We are still talking about killing fetuses.

    That is the problem. On one hand we want people to abstain from violent love except for procreation, then offer abortion as a right.

    How about the right to have violent love? Why isn’t that a right? Why do the Republicans, and Democrats spend so much time fighting homosexuality, and abortion when they should be promoting safer violent love?

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  12. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 511 – Well, that is the other bizarro side of Catholocism and likely other Christian religions. violent love is for pro-creation. But nonetheless, if you believe human life begins at conception, you would regard abortion as murder. If you perform a simple logic experiment, with the two assumptions being life begins at conception, life begins at X months, and look at the results of each assumption being wrong, you will see that it comes down to muirder versus unwanted pregnancies and births as the 2 negative outcomes. Which is worse?

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  13. Kary L. Krismer

    Does anyone remember what the polling was showing one week out in 2000? Did it show it being that close?

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  14. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 512

    I’m reluctantly pro choice, because it is a choice left to the women who would decide if it is murder.

    The larger picture is that the Catholic church, along with most Christian religions look at abortion as murder, but fail to recognize the planet is over populated.

    You can’t stop violent love, so it should be discussed, and made more safe.

    I also think the Catholic church is stuck with the other issue of homesexuality, that was hidden for hundreds of years. There is no way celebacy would ever work, today, or a thousand years ago. It’s unnatural, unhealthy, and a lie.

    So, I think churches have a lot to answer for, but need to come to grips with the issue of population.

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  15. Kary L. Krismer

    By The Tim @ 14:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 513 – Is our current election considered “close”? Nate Silver gives Obama a 74.6% chance of winning. That doesn’t seem close at all to me.

    I really didn’t express an opinion on that, but the national polls are tied, and there are only a handful of “battleground” states which matter for the electoral college. Also, I realize this is press hype, but there have been a number of stories about a tie, and how that would likely result in a President Obama and Vice President Biden. So yes, I’d consider that close.

    But my question was, did the polls back then show it was close? Do the polls really mean anything is what I’m trying to get at.

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  16. Ira Sacharoff

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 516:

    By The Tim @ 14:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 513 – Is our current election considered “close”? Nate Silver gives Obama a 74.6% chance of winning. That doesn’t seem close at all to me.

    I really didn’t express an opinion on that, but the national polls are tied, and there are only a handful of “battleground” states which matter for the electoral college. Also, I realize this is press hype, but there have been a number of stories about a tie, and how that would likely result in a President Obama and Vice President Biden. So yes, I’d consider that close.

    But my question was, did the polls back then show it was close? Do the polls really mean anything is what I’m trying to get at.

    I just looked at the 2000 polls from this date. Bush had a 1-2% lead, but Gore was ahead electorally. The actual result was flip flopped. Now, Romney has a small lead, and it looks like Obama is ahead electorally. But also in 2000, Intrade had Bush as the favorite, and it currently has Obama as the favorite.

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  17. whatsmyname

    By Scotsman @ 506:

    For the children, or the fascist youth group of the future? Those smiles, the passion, the complete and utter cluelessness- vote for dear leader:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fwlW4lx6TTo#!

    Horrendous! Time was those whippersnappers would work the tight seams with a quick “yes, sir”, and no sassy questions about what to do if the mine catches fire.

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  18. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Scotsman @ 506
    There’s plenty of insipid Republican Party dreck on the airwaves, but this certainly qualifies as insipid Democratic Party dreck. Good find!

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  19. pfft

    Expect Willard to lie about this too.

    Did Mitt Say He’d Shut Down FEMA
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/10/did_mitt_say_hed_shut_down_fema.php?ref=fpblg

    What a loser.

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  20. pfft

    Elizabeth Warren is up 7 in Mass. I know that the Obama administration hasn’t cracked down on Wall Street but we have people like Elizabeth Warren and Republicans don’t.

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  21. pfft

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 519:

    RE: Scotsman @ 506
    There’s plenty of insipid Republican Party dreck on the airwaves, but this certainly qualifies as insipid Democratic Party dreck. Good find!

    nobody cares.

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  22. Scotsman

    Barack Milhouse Obama

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  23. Scotsman

    RE: The Tim @ 514

    Nate Silver will be much less of a phenom on 11-7. What his analysis misses is voter intensity and who will actually show up to vote this time around. All this excitement about adjusting for voter turnout in 2004/2008/2010 or Silver’s touchstone- Gallup’s party affiliation polls- still fail to capture the mood of the current electorate.

    The single consistent advantage O has had- national security- is eroding as I type, and the ethusiasm of his supporters is mild at best.

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  24. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 17 – Thanks for looking those 2000 polling numbers up. All I remembered was that CBS couldn’t get Florida right on the night of the election, and Dan Rather was visibly disappointed when they put the state back in play.

    On the topic of press hype, NBCNews.com is reporting that the Republican Ohio governor is predicting that Romney will win Ohio. Not sure why they think that is worth reporting on the front page of their website.

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  25. Kary L. Krismer

    By Scotsman @ 23:

    Barack Milhouse Obama

    Are you predicting Libya will be President Obama’s Watergate? Nixon was re-elected when it was fairly obvious he was involved with a Watergate coverup. Maybe history will repeat itself?

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  26. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 524:

    RE: The Tim @ 514

    Nate Silver will be much less of a phenom on 11-7. What his analysis misses is voter intensity and who will actually show up to vote this time around. All this excitement about adjusting for voter turnout in 2004/2008/2010 or Silver’s touchstone- Gallup’s party affiliation polls- still fail to capture the mood of the current electorate.

    The single consistent advantage O has had- national security- is eroding as I type, and the ethusiasm of his supporters is mild at best.

    keep dreaming birther.

    it’s not just nate silver, it’s princeton and it’s all of the bookies.

    “What his analysis misses is voter intensity and who will actually show up to vote this time around.”

    and how do you know that?

    it’s going to be a sad night at the scotsman household when he realize the can’t post for 2 months. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

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  27. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 26:

    By Scotsman @ 23:
    Barack Milhouse Obama

    Are you predicting Libya will be President Obama’s Watergate? Nixon was re-elected when it was fairly obvious he was involved with a Watergate coverup. Maybe history will repeat itself?

    I don’t understand what exactly you think they are covering up?

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  28. pfft

    Mitt Romney is lying again but this time he’s being called out.

    Misleading Romney Auto Ad Backfires With Media
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/misleading-romney-auto-ad-backfires-with-media.php?ref=fpa

    Even Chrysler had to blog to refute Romney’s lies. Anything to win the Whitehouse…

    http://blog.chryslerllc.com/blog.do?id=1932&p=entry

    Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China.

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  29. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 28:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 26:
    By Scotsman @ 23:
    Barack Milhouse Obama

    Are you predicting Libya will be President Obama’s Watergate? Nixon was re-elected when it was fairly obvious he was involved with a Watergate coverup. Maybe history will repeat itself?

    I don’t understand what exactly you think they are covering up?

    Not sending military or CIA assets to help during the 7 hour attack.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33816_162-57536611/could-u.s-military-have-helped-during-libya-attack/

    Earlier on I said they were covering up for no apparent reason. Given the way they behaved, there almost certainly had to be a reason.

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  30. Blurtman

    RE: Scotsman @ 523 – If you are serious, you are quite mad.

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  31. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 21 – She is on the warpath, for sure.

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  32. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 15 – Yes, well, again we have inconsistencies as the law does not leave it to the woman to decide if it is OK to feed her kid or not. The real issue is what rights does a new human lifeform have, and when. And relying on technology to determine ex vivo viability has been shown to be a moving target.

    It is for some an unfortunate reality that only one violent love carries the fetus, but to be pro choice, and not to have a well reasoned opinion on when life begins is to be an ignorant and irresponsible child.

    Tricky issue, and one that I fortunately never had to deal with, but to argue that a right to your own body trumps the right to life of a human seems to be bizarro and selfishly ignorant at best.

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  33. pfft

    Everything Else In D.C. May Be Shut Down, But Not The Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/everything-else-in-dc-may-be-shut-down-but-not-the-tomb-of-the-unknown-soldier-2012-10#ixzz2AiQhAFSv

    Awesome.

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  34. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 530:

    By pfft @ 28:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 26:
    By Scotsman @ 23:
    Barack Milhouse Obama

    Are you predicting Libya will be President Obama’s Watergate? Nixon was re-elected when it was fairly obvious he was involved with a Watergate coverup. Maybe history will repeat itself?

    I don’t understand what exactly you think they are covering up?

    Not sending military or CIA assets to help during the 7 hour attack.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33816_162-57536611/could-u.s-military-have-helped-during-libya-attack/

    Earlier on I said they were covering up for no apparent reason. Given the way they behaved, there almost certainly had to be a reason.

    I thought the cover-up was that it was a terrorist attack and not mob violence?

    Goal posts changing again eh?

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  35. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 35 – Well, unless the Administration comes out and states the reason for their cover up, how am I suppose to know what they’re covering up, and why they’re covering it up?

    In the past though I said that item you just mentioned was their covering up something that didn’t need to be covered up.

    http://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/10/01/politics-economics-open-thread-2/comment-page-4/#comment-180071

    If it is this refusal to protect the Ambassador, that would be a good reason to attempt a cover up.

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  36. uwp

    Don’t worry guys! Something will stick with Libya!
    The Right’s obsession with Benghazi needing to be something more than a tragedy is pretty disgusting. Obama smacking Romney about it in debate #2 was fully justified, and Romney rightly backed away from making it an issue in debate #3.

    RE: 2000 Polls.
    This date in history: October 29, 2000.

    CNN/USA Today/Gallup Presidential Preference (Oct. 25-27)
    Margin of error +/- 4%
    Bush 49%
    Gore 42%
    Buchanan 1%
    Nader 3%

    Reuters/MSNBC/Zogby Daily Tracking (Oct. 25-28)
    Margin of error +/- 3%
    Bush 44%
    Gore 43%
    Buchanan 1%
    Nader 5%
    Browne <1
    Hagelin <1

    ABC News Tracking (Oct. 25-27)
    Margin of error +/- 3%
    Bush 47%
    Gore 46%
    Buchanan 1%
    Nader 4%

    Battleground 2000 Daily (Oct. 23-26)
    Margin of error +/- 3.1%
    Bush 45%
    Gore 40%
    Buchanan 1%
    Nader 4%

    Portrait of America Tracking (Oct. 25, 26, 28)
    Margin of error +/- 1.8%
    Bush 46%
    Gore 42%
    Buchanan 1%
    Nader 4%
    Browne 1%
    Phillips 0%
    Hagelin<1%

    Newsweek – likely voters (Oct. 25-27)
    Margin of error +/- 3%
    Bush 49%
    Gore 41%

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  37. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: uwp @ 537 – I find the State Department refusing to provide extra security in Libya to be “pretty disgusting.” I guess I just have standards that value human life a bit more than protecting the Obamessiah.

    I know that was a lower level decision at the State Department, but it was seemingly a decision only made to help maintain the facade of President Obama’s world view.

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  38. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 538:

    RE: uwp @ 537 – I find the State Department refusing to provide extra security in Libya to be “pretty disgusting.” I guess I just have standards that value human life a bit more than protecting the Obamessiah.

    I know that was a lower level decision at the State Department, but it was seemingly a decision only made to help maintain the facade of President Obama’s world view.

    which is?

    Can you at least argue one thing? First it was the President was lying about it being a mob action. what is it now? now that that strawman has collapsed?

    that’s the point though. bring up many different issues and when those are debunked make up new ones. that way you can make Libya an issue for political purposes.

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  39. No Name Guy

    I for one look forward to the HUGE stimulus to the economy that Sandy will do.

    Just think, Krugman and his Kensyian ilk must be salivating at all the spending that will happen to pump out the (soon to be) flooded NYC subway tunnels, repair all those downed power lines, replace all the flood damaged carpet and all the rest. Why, it’s even better than a fake martian invasion since it’s spending on infrastructure and the like, instead of evil weapons.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/paul-krugman-fake-alien-invasion_n_926995.html

    Heck, lets just arrange for a Sandy a week until the economy is booming.

    /snark

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  40. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 533

    It’s not a life until it’s viable, to live on it’s own, to be matured as a human, and that’s why it’s by trimester.

    Sure you can say the woman is responsible, but that leaves men off the hook. That is the part I don’t buy into.

    Until condom use is encouraged universally, and globally I don’t expect to hear some Congress person talk about abortion. There’s more to do.

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  41. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 38

    It has been reported, and established that no amount of help could have been directed that would have helped, on that day. As far as protecting every embassy in North Africa when mobs started to form? forget about it.

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  42. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 539:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 538:
    RE: uwp @ 537 – I find the State Department refusing to provide extra security in Libya to be “pretty disgusting.” I guess I just have standards that value human life a bit more than protecting the Obamessiah.

    I know that was a lower level decision at the State Department, but it was seemingly a decision only made to help maintain the facade of President Obama’s world view.

    which is?

    Can you at least argue one thing? First it was the President was lying about it being a mob action. what is it now? now that that strawman has collapsed?

    that’s the point though. bring up many different issues and when those are debunked make up new ones. that way you can make Libya an issue for political purposes.

    He was lying about it being mob action, although they conveniently have the recently released CIA memo which gives them minimal support, if you totally ignore what the State Department knew from 9/11.

    What’s confusing you is that that it was a cover up was known. What they are covering up wasn’t known. Only insider administration officials know what the reason for the cover up is. People will speculate as to the reasons, but that doesn’t change the lies (and yes lies is plural because there’s no way you can say Biden didn’t lie during the debate).

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  43. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 42:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 38 -It has been reported, and established that no amount of help could have been directed that would have helped, on that day..

    Quit making up facts. Leon Panetta says forces were in place, but they elected not to use them because they didn’t have sufficient information on the situation on the ground.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/leon-panetta-us-lacked-early-info-on-benghazi-attack/2012/10/25/d3aa2ca5-e8af-4dc0-95d4-a1b28b517aa4_video.html

    Not having real time information is inconsistent with other reports from early on.

    And BTW, there was no attacking mob. That was fiction created by the Obama Administration.

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  44. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 544

    150 people, plus 20 gathered on site is a mob, the same as mobs formed across North Africa. Was it all planned for this one attack? Hmmmm.

    In your video it is stated clearly there was no advance information, no real time information, and the decisions were made on the ground, not in the White House.

    It can’t be any more clear at this time.

    There is now a target of Ansar al-Shariah. That group was targeted, and attacked immediately by Libyans http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/09/201292205259561409.html

    Now it’s up to the United States to find the people responsible, and kill them.

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  45. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David Losh @ 545 – Earlier reports were of having real time data of the attack. That real time data was why the Administration knew there wasn’t a mob, along with the fact that mobs do not act in organized fashion.

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  46. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 546

    Kary, it’s a 170 people thousands of miles from the White House.

    There were no earlier reports, these reports came from witnesses gathered after the attack. Firt reports were that it was Al Quida, until Ansar al-Shariah took credit hours later.

    The Republican claim is that the ambassador asked for added security in e-mails that they obtained. In the video you posted it states there were assets in the area, on the gorund, but were not sent in because of the risk.

    The Republicans have made a mess of this situation for political gains, they hope.

    What the United States needs to do is ignore the noise of the Republican Party, and kill the people responsible.

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  47. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 547:

    Firt reports were that it was Al Quida, until Ansar al-Shariah took credit hours later

    Then why was the administration blaming a mob about a week later, and claiming it was the result of a movie?

    And in asking the question, I’m excluding the obvious answer: To cover something up.

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  48. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 548

    They are covering up the targets who happen to be our allies in over throwing Gaddafy. We probably armed them, like we did Saddam, and Gaddafy, and Mubarack, and everybody else. They are probably looking for the evil doers today, as we type, and they will be killed.

    I seriously doubt there will be a trial, but maybe, if they turn themselves in, anything could happen.

    So I think the big cover up is the Republicans endangering on ongoing operation to kill some people.

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  49. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 548:

    By David Losh @ 547:
    Firt reports were that it was Al Quida, until Ansar al-Shariah took credit hours later

    Then why was the administration blaming a mob about a week later, and claiming it was the result of a movie?

    oh my god we went over this 2 weeks ago…

    like I said, you don’t know anything about current events. literally nothing.

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  50. uwp

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 538:

    I guess I just have standards that value human life a bit more than protecting the Obamessiah.

    *fills bubble for Romney/Ryan*

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  51. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Blurtman @ 533
    Life begins at erection.
    Masturbation is Murder.

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  52. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 550:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 548:
    By David Losh @ 547:
    Firt reports were that it was Al Quida, until Ansar al-Shariah took credit hours later

    Then why was the administration blaming a mob about a week later, and claiming it was the result of a movie?

    oh my god we went over this 2 weeks ago…

    like I said, you don’t know anything about current events. literally nothing.

    You think you proved something with that post? You don’t know anything about current events. There, I win because I said it last!

    To prove a point you have to do something besides say something. I’ve provided links that there wasn’t a mob. Therefore it wasn’t related to the movie, as claimed by Rice the week after.

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  53. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 553

    We did cover this two weeks ago, and you don’t know anything about current events.

    You just keep making comments, and your comment here explains your strategy.

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  54. Blurtman

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 552 – Having been raised in the faith, I can relate that the logic behind the sin of masturbation is that violent love is only for procreation. I am not sure if it is OK to enjoy violent love that your are engaging in to procreate from that perspective. ;>)

    Parthenogenesis has not resulted in the creation of a human (apologies to all Christians out there) and so equating masturbation with abortion would be illogical. However certain types of birth control work by making the womb an unfriendly place for the fetilized egg, and so would be considered contributing to the death of a human by those holding the human life at conception viewpoint.

    Commentary: The “whatever” mode that most folks go through life engaged in can be viewed as dangerous and not conducive to survival (especially of those holding that viewpoint.)

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  55. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 555 – It’s actually possible to make an argument that it’s immoral to bring additional humans into this world. I’m not making that argument, just noting that it’s possible.

    The position of some religious entities on the issue though does seem rather outdated, at least as to contraception. I think we have enough people to sustain the species at this point, and we probably do have too many.

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  56. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 54:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 553

    We did cover this two weeks ago, and you don’t know anything about current events.

    You just keep making comments, and your comment here explains your strategy.

    Are you illiterate? Did you not understand the post you responded to? Just saying something doesn’t make it so. You don’t understand squat about squat. so again you’re in no position to judge what I know or don’t know.

    Comprehend? Or do I need to use smaller words?

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  57. uwp

    “More importantly, if you put a statement in the form of a question, is that journalism?”
    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/420540/october-24-2012/nonstop-libya-gate-questions

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  58. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 556 – That’s what it comes down to Kary, as a result of two paths, if you make an assumption that turns out to be wrong:

    A) you either bring unwanted children into the world, to a woman or parents who do not want to have a baby,

    B) or you kill millions of people.

    Now since it is merely an assumption as to when life begins, if you look at the result of your assumption being wrong, which is the more prudent path to take? Which is the worst possible outcome, A or B?

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  59. Blurtman

    This Benghazi potential blunder is a pimple on an elephant’s hind quarters, at best.

    One real issue is that neither Romney or Obama will be able to wave a magic wand and make everything go-go ’90’s again, at least for most Americans. There are very real problems that will need to be solved in the next president’s term.

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  60. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 560:

    This Benghazi potential blunder is a pimple on an elephant’s hind quarters, at best.

    One real issue is that neither Romney or Obama will be able to wave a magic wand and make everything go-go ’90’s again, at least for most Americans.

    yes, a massive stimulus program in the range of $700 billion.

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  61. Scotsman

    Was it a trap?

    “”The party I’m a part of because I’m tolerant and I think that homosexuals should be able to get married – the group of people that I associate with – can be just as cruel as the people I disagree with.”

    http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/10/internet_fail_the_truth_about.html

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  62. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 553RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 557

    This is the sum total of all your comments: “You don’t know anything about current events. There, I win because I said it last!”

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  63. pfft

    Romney campaign takes lying to another level.

    Now General Motors Is Ripping Mitt Romney For Lying About The Auto Industry

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/romney-gm-lies-ads-2012-10#ixzz2ApfvyMiW

    luckily he isn’t going to win!

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  64. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 64 – Okay, Romney claimed GM cut 15,000 US jobs. GM claims it was 14,000.

    Romney claimed that GM was going to double the amount of cars it builds in China. GM was silent on that, but presumably if they build more cars there they would hire more people.

    I would agree that wouldn’t be moving jobs to China if that occurred, because they presumably are not building cars in China to sell in the US.

    But hey, how does that compare to Biden lying to 60,000,000 Americans by saying “we” didn’t receive any request for additional security in Libya? That was an outright lie, and the Administration the next day backed up that lie in a press conference. So the Romney campaign here stretched the facts, but the Obama Administration at the very top lied. Not even close.

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  65. pfft

    delusional until election day.

    After Brutal Polling Day, Romney Team Reassures That They’ll Win
    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/10/after-brutal-polling-day-romney-team-reassures-that-theyll-win.php?ref=fpa

    the numbers just don’t add up for Romney.

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  66. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: The Tim @ 514
    When Nate Silver is giving a probability, it means that if the election were held 100 times, Obama would be winning 74 of those elections. But the election is only being held once. Some of the states he gives to Obama at this point are very close. I expect it to be very close, at least in the popular vote.

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  67. pfft

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 567:

    RE: The Tim @ 514
    When Nate Silver is giving a probability, it means that if the election were held 100 times, Obama would be winning 74 of those elections. But the election is only being held once. Some of the states he gives to Obama at this point are very close. I expect it to be very close, at least in the popular vote.

    78% now, even more according to the Princeton Election Consortium.

    http://election.princeton.edu/

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  68. Blurtman

    Romney says to stack the poor like kindling.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57543411/mitt-romney-offers-answer-on-his-fema-stance/

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  69. pfft

    Nate Silver and the forecasting consensus, in one chart
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/31/nate-silver-and-the-forecasting-consensus-in-one-chart/

    Obama still the favorite.

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  70. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 565 – GM reported earnings of $1.4 billion for Q3 2012. Presumably that comes from product sales, and not bogus paper shuffling and accounting schemes like the investment banks.

    Check out the new Camaro 1LE. Vroooommmmmm!

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  71. Scotsman

    “What has Obama done that deserves such devotion from his supporters? What has he accomplished? Has he lowered unemployment as he promised? Has he lowered the deficit as he promised? Did Obamacare lower health care premiums? Did Obama bring peace to the Middle East? Did he deliver transparency as he promised? Did he work with the Republicans to bring this nation together? Did he improve racial relations? What has this former community services worker accomplished? What did he accomplish as a Senator to be considered for the presidency? His rise to power is unbelievable. It is like he sold his soul to the devil and is reaping the rewards” Carol

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  72. Scotsman

    O jets off to Vegas- again- while New Yorkers search dumpsters for food. Where’s the compassion?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  73. Scotsman

    Obama to blame Bush for losing 2012 election!!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  74. Blurtman

    Citing climate change, Bloomberg endorses Obama

    Independent New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has long listed global warming as one of his top concerns. He says hurricane Sandy brought the presidential election ‘into sharp relief.’

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/1101/Sandy-s-political-impact-Citing-climate-change-Bloomberg-endorses-Obama-video

    Probably also why Christie is describing Romney as George W reincarnated, but with better hair.

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  75. whatsmyname

    By Scotsman @ 574:

    Obama to blame Bush for losing 2012 election!!

    And the payout just keeps getting better for the scotsman smart enough to bet it all on Romney. Ladbrokes now has him at 11/4. Are you all in yet?

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  76. Blurtman

    REMINDER FOR REPUBLICANS: Do not accept any government help today. YOU built that. YOU can clear the roads. YOU can restore power, not FEMA.

    – Top Conservative Cat tweet

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  77. David Losh

    RE: Scotsman @ 572

    Obama has changed the world for the better, not just the United States, and our petty concerns, but he changed how the world is functioning.

    Mitt Romney has brought nothing to this campaign. He might as well be Herman Cain saying nine, nine, nine as the answer to everything.

    There is no choice in this election. Obama delivered much more than he promised, and has been sysmied by Republicans at every turn. The only thing Republicans have done in four years is try to discredit, and get rid of Obama.

    It just doesn’t look good, nationally, or globally.

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  78. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 573:

    O jets off to Vegas- again- while New Yorkers search dumpsters for food. Where’s the compassion?

    The President can and must do two things at once.

    what’s Romney doing? Holding fake relief drives.

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  79. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 74:

    Obama to blame Bush for losing 2012 election!!

    Where is Bush? Why isn’t he campaigning with Rmoney? He’s not even in the country.

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  80. Kary L. Krismer

    By Scotsman @ 74:

    Obama to blame Bush for losing 2012 election!!

    Now that’s funny!

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  81. Kary L. Krismer

    Reconcile these two news stories:

    http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2019582298_apltmexicoremittances.html

    Funds going to Mexico down 20%, largest drop since 2009, purportedly due to low construction activity.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-01/construction-spending-in-u-s-climbs-to-highest-level-since-2009.html

    Construction spending rises to highest level since 2009.

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  82. Kary L. Krismer

    I’ve mentioned before how people complaining about Fox News totally ignore MSNBC. Per this study, MSNBC is even more biased than Fox.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/11/02/msnbc_fox_news_which_cable_channel_is_more_partisan_pew_report_suggests.html

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  83. Scotsman

    Atta boy, Joe. He’s too dumb to realize what he just said, and so is the crowd. Or maybe they agree? Hilarious!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OPdTSnmzdb4

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  84. Scotsman

    RE: pfft @ 79

    “The President can and must do two things at once.”

    Run foreign policy while campaigning in Vegas? Fail.
    Cut unemployment while vacationing? Fail
    Rebuild the middle class while selling Chevy Volts? Fail.
    Walk and chew gum? Probably fail.

    Waste money on green technology while enriching contributors? Score!!!!!!

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  85. Scotsman

    RE: whatsmyname @ 576

    Tried. Won’t take bets from the U.S.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  86. whatsmyname

    By Scotsman @ 586:

    RE: whatsmyname @ 576

    Tried. Won’t take bets from the U.S.

    How frustrating. Now they’ve gone 3/1

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  87. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 585:

    RE: pfft @ 79

    “The President can and must do two things at once.”

    Run foreign policy while campaigning in Vegas? Fail.
    Cut unemployment while vacationing? Fail
    Rebuild the middle class while selling Chevy Volts? Fail.
    Walk and chew gum? Probably fail.

    Waste money on green technology while enriching contributors? Score!!!!!!

    Remember when Obama was releasing his birth certificate, making fun of Trump and getting Bin Laden? I do.

    are you prepared for you hiatus? got any good hikes planned?

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  88. pfft

    Nate Silver has Obama with an 82.66543% chance of winning the electoral vote.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  89. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 88 – Speaking of Trump, WTF was up with his stupid college transcripts thing. After Sandy hit he extended the deadline for President Obama to respond, and then nothing.

    Was that entire thing just something for him to get some publicity? Was there too long of a gap without his name in the news? Very bizarre.

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  90. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 590 – Trump is a celebrity moron. He may be in the same categroy of mad dogs as is John Stossel. What hemorrhoids.

    They get air time because there is an audience of imbeciles who eat that stuff up.

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  91. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 591:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 590 – Trump is a celebrity moron. He may be in the same categroy of mad dogs as is John Stossel. What hemorrhoids.

    They get air time because there is an audience of imbeciles who eat that stuff up.

    the media loves trump even though most of them openly mock him on twitter or on air.

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  92. Scotsman

    “Romney, whatever else you think about him, is somebody who has fed the hungry, clothed the naked, and visited the sick. In Mr. Whedon’s view of the world, none of that dirty-handed business is necessary: All that is necessary is that one cast a symbolic vote for the man who promises to care, and to express that care by expropriating money from people you don’t like and giving it to people for whom you have a moral concern that is at best theoretical”

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/332375/dumb-vote-kevin-d-williamson?pg=1

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  93. pfft

    54% of Americans think Obama will win; 34% predict Romney
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/158444/americans-give-obama-better-odds-win-election.aspx

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  94. Blurtman

    RE: Scotsman @ 593 – He chased the moneylenders from the temple. Well, not really.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  95. David Losh

    RE: Scotsman @ 593

    I’m going into the kitchen now to cast my vote for President Barack Obama, because Jon Stewart told me too.

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  96. pfft

    revenge of the unions.

    “Walker awoke a sleeping giant in Wisconsin, and Kasich kicked the hornet’s nest in Ohio when they tried to take away the rights of the hard working men and women of Wisconsin and Ohio,” union spokesperson Chris Fleming told TPM. “Members are more energized, more engaged and more enthusiastic than ever before.”

    Unions Claim Romney Paying The Price For Labor Fights In Ohio, Wisc
    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/unions-say-romney-paying-the-price-for-labor-fights-in-ohio-wisc.php?ref=fpb

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  97. pfft

    Good news, Elizabeth Warren running for Senate in Mass is at 78% on intrade.

    http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=745936

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  98. Ira Sacharoff

    It doesn’t look good for Obama:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskins_Rule

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  99. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 598 – Here is the issue that will put her over the top:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/04/entertainment-us-nodoubt-apology-idUSBRE8A30KU20121104

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