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RE: Doug @ 61 – HAHA – go get ‘em Doug!.. you find fault with me calling Ira black and uneducated directly after he called me white and educated? The only difference is that my statement was factually correct…. HAHA… typical liberal….. do you have any thoughts of your own?… Pre-teens is a term of endearment for the under 30 voting block…..”

By the way, language major, the sentence you used starting with the the words “The lack of punctuation” should have a comma after the word “ellipses” instead of a period…

“The lack of punctuation, random thoughts trailing off into the void with ellipses. It�s all there. ”

Classic!

Please cite me a post where I ever called you white and educated. I don’t believe I did, and if I did, I apologize:)

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Corndogs, can I at least ask that you refrain from hitting below the belt as to David Losh? It really is not funny, and he truly does not deserve it, and it makes me very sad to see it.

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Bottom line is, you tried to correct Corndogs grammar with a sentence that had improper grammar…… that’s a lose for you today…. you need to come back another day to get another chance from the Corndog. Corndog has spoken…

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It’s fun to watch you styling yourself as some kind of intellectual titan, dropping truth bombs and being the last free-thinking man on earth, when all you’ve ever provided are the very easiest of stereotypes.

“HAHA… typical liberal….. do you have any thoughts of your own?”

Truly, I do shudder under the oppressive brunt of your words.

The only slightly original assertion I’ve ever seen you put forth is that the DJIA fell after the second presidential debate because Obama won the debate. While this may be original (or may not, I don’t follow WND or InfoWars), it was easily disprovable.

Plus, Ira is awesome: brimming with self-confidence, humor and regard for his fellow man, even when in an argument. You might want to try at least one of these.

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By the way, language major, the sentence you used starting with the the words “The lack of punctuation” should have a comma after the word “ellipses” instead of a period…

“The lack of punctuation, random thoughts trailing off into the void with ellipses. It’s all there. ”

Classic!

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This from the guy who thought pre-teens voted in Obama. Nostradumbass.

I always read corndog posts in the Ultimate Warrior’s voice. The random preening. The claims to intellectual dominance. The lack of punctuation, random thoughts trailing off into the void with ellipses. It’s all there.

I better watch it, though, or he might call me black and uneducated, like he did with Ira.

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The one thing the 3 of you have in common is you are the only 3 on here that have the victim mentality. When someone rips you a new one, you throw out some line as if your plight is shared with all of mankind… You even pathetically attempt to protect each other at times. Corndog has intellectually manhandled the three of you at will over many months and proven you wrong and foolish. While Corndog predicts the future and is always correct. Pegasux and Wreckingbung have grown rather timid in expressing any debatable opinion, all they have left is one line name calling. But this Losh, he takes the head shots and just comes back for more…. it’s amazing..

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RE: Howard @ 54 –
Certainly it is your choice. From your case, though, it appears that you are choosing to live in a 1960′s time machine, or something under a power line to save money. I don’t see where the money you save is materially different whether you are renting or buying the particular space you are choosing to inhabit.

Perhaps you want to keep your options open to change your mind and/or your living space. That, of course, would have value. Anyway, so long as it’s what you consciously want, it’s all good.

Exactly.. I would also add that I believe that the timearp split levels are the next fiscal cliff. Once someone realizes that they need to replumb, re wire, re do insulation, put new windows in and they still have a time warp, they prices will stagnate or decline.

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Perhaps you want to keep your options open to change your mind and/or your living space. That, of course, would have value. Anyway, so long as it’s what you consciously want, it’s all good.

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RE: corndogs @ 47 –
Very true; the static analysis does not hold true for the short term – and perhaps not even for the long term. What was interesting to me here was that even if you do accept the static analysis, the mismatch in housing assumptions forces one into choosing the suboptimal housing choice for the long term – but without the upside of that very choice. The result is to make an unconscious third choice which is worse than either of the other two.

I disagree. The third choice is a conscious choice. We have decided that if we were to buy, we would only buy in certain neighborhoods with certain amenities and a house that we will be comfortable for a long time.

If we decide to rent, we will seek out the cheapest place that keeps a roof over our family an our stuff. We can then take the $1200 a month saved and use it for other things (investing, travel, etc.)

There is no in between for us. We have made the decision that will not purchase a 1960s split level or rambler. We won’t purchase a house along a busy road or underneath power lines. In the Lake Washington School District, specifically Kirkland or Redmond and not Sammamish, with a easy commute to Totem Lake and a short distance to a park and ride that means we would be buying in the $500k plus range.

The decision for us is: rent for $1550 a month (today’s $) or buy for $500k plus, which puts our PITI at $2750 a month or more.

That’s OUR decision. If we were to buy a $300k 1960s time machine, of course buying would be cheaper. I just am not willing to own one.

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See they do NOT care who owns the home only that it produces income or at the very least provides a free place to live.

The long-term strategy is their savings that they continue to accrue. Many of the rentals produce pure cash-flow because the taxes and insurance were escrowed many years ago. With the PURE savings they buy rentals homes for CASH or at the very least keep tucking it away. So many I know just continue to put away their monthly rents they receive and many more take the payment they would have paid their owner-occupied lender and put that aside as well. They are NOT alone. I expect countless thousands are doing the same thing across the nation.

As of Nov 2012 so many tell me that this housing carsh was the BEST thing that could of ever happened to them on a personal level. Please keep in mind these people are VERY educated in this matter and have ZERO remorse. They feel the original lenders are bankrupt anyway and the money that is trying to be reclaimed has no right to the people trying to grasp it now. So as the months and years grind away so many continue to smile as their savings slowly increase month after month and year after year.

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RE: Jacknut16 @ 44 – This leads me to another question for Ray. Ray, you always point out people you know who milk the system, via loopholes, perpetual delay tactics, and outright fraud. I fully believe you that some have been doing this for upwards of five years.

What is the long-term strategy, though? When their time is up, what are their opportunities in the following seven years. Eventually, “they will all come back” as you have constantly told us, so I am curious to hear the rest of the story.

Thanks.

Goto Loansafe.org There are dozens of people on the forums explaining what they are doing and how they drag things out. The call it getting on the HAMPster wheel

http://www.loansafe.org/forum/chase-mortgage-tell-us-your-chase-story/39095-hampster-wheel-game.html

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What is the long-term strategy, though? When their time is up, what are their opportunities in the following seven years. Eventually, “they will all come back” as you have constantly told us, so I am curious to hear the rest of the story.

Thanks.

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RE: ray pepper @ 15 – If your lifestyle is one of wanting to have pets and dogs, buying is a great reason to do so.

Not everything has to be an outright amazing investment to own a home.

I would agree. Pets can damage property, and having those repairs be on your own timeline can be important, as opposed to being forced to pay for repairs when a lease can not longer be renewed. Also with pets you might want to have total control over access to your home.

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If your lifestyle is one of wanting to have pets and dogs, buying is a great reason to do so.

Not everything has to be an outright amazing investment to own a home.

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Why would you alienate every reader of your comments? What’s the upside?

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HAHA yeah well I guess it’s all relative isn’t it. I’m sure when you picked out your old lady and saw her gold tooth you yelled out “Jackpot”…

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I went to an estate sale today in a house that has sat vacant since 2006. The heirs are people with money, Democracts of course, but this must be the time to sell.

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They both went pending in the last two weeks.

Sold within weeks for about the same price they started at.

I think it’s an insane time in our market place”

Outside of King county, looking at Pierce, Snohomish and Thurston county combined, 41% of all million plus homes sold in the last 3 months were across the Narrows bridge in the tiny geographical region of Gig Harbor… a lot of insane Republicans out here Losh, I wouldn’t recommend that you come out here, ever. It might be contagious…

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RE: Erin @ 30 – Made out like a bandit because you sold in 2007 and rebought in 2012? The real people who made out like a “bandit” were those who never sold and instead stopped paying and received 50 percent or more lopped off their principle balances here in 2012 forward. They received 5 years plus of free rent or if you may rental income , and now get the deal of a lifetime. .

Not everyone has few enough assets, low enough income, and lives in a crappy enough house for that to occur.

But other than that, great advice. /sarc

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I used to live in Europe, where renting is common. If I could, I’d love to lease a place in the country for 20-30 years, w/ an exit clause. My fears include massive increases in property taxes plus onerous taxes of various sorts to pay for govt pensions, as well as a general economic collapse. I’m paying for mobility options.

At the same time, I’m looking for 4-plex rental properties. I love properties that generate income, I’m just not so happy about spending for a house…

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They both went pending in the last two weeks.

Sold within weeks for about the same price they started at.

I think it’s an insane time in our market place, but, I agree with Erin, a lot of people have relocated here, and don’t want to play the rental market crap shoot.

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Is it the centipede?

Beware the Ray Pepper You Tubes.

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I think I can fairly say that I “made out like a bandit” between 2002 and 2007 because I sold my purchases at a very healthy return after expenses.

As for the decision to buy in 2012, only time will tell whether than was a good decision on a financial level. It is certainly a good decision on a quality of life level. I can walk to so many of Seattle’s best amenities, and walk to work daily…

And yes, keep my (senior, former abuse rescue) dog;)

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1. She is not buying it as an investment;
2. She is not leveraged and can easily afford the payments;
3. She is buying a HOME. A homeowner has a lot of freedom, including having a dog, add a hot tub, etc. Further, she can stay in the SAME house as long as she wants.
4. She is buying at market price. Sure some of you think current pricing is expensive but that’s doesn’t mean anything. (You can always sell your house if you think prices will come down again.)

Erin is NOT stupid. She is making an informed decision. I think Seattle Bubble simply attracts too many people with negative views on housing.

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I just bought a house in the city, monthly expenses less than what I paid in rent. Looked over 6 months for the right house to love at the right price. Ironic that I shunned real estate last decade and thought everyone else were idiots. Now I just don’t care.
My landlord did not allow canines; I’m looking for a puppy now, maybe a schnoodle.

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My prior comment was clearly misleading…we did not choose to buy because of our dog, although that was a factor that made our rental search difficult.

We chose to buy because we were looking at paying $2500-$3500 a month for a Seattle rental that would not be a *significant* step down from our $250K condo in Chicago. Personally I cannot stomach that kind of rent payment. Our mortgage plus taxes will be under $2500/month now, and in a location that does not require the expense of a second car to boot.

To those who think I am stupid: Well, I was smart enough to sell all my real estate holdings by May 2007…made out like a bandit…so I am inclined to trust my instincts. But obviously you win some and you lose some. Moreover, not every transaction in life is going to be a bargain and sometimes you just have to look past that because there are bigger issues at stake than getting a deal. It was also about building a home in Seattle where we would be comfortable.

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I guess if money doesnt play a part in ones decision making of whether or not to buy, it leaves a lot more doors open; personally I think a combination of financial reasons and other factors is best- but what do I know.

I didn’t intend to imply that it isn’t a combination of factors, but for us, financial is not one of them.

Kids, schools, commute, sports programs, kids friends, day care, desire to live in same school district that my wife works… All quality of life issues for us.

If it was about money, we would be buying a house for under 300k, that is the break even point for us.

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If the choice was giving up my dog, or buying a house knowing that I very well might lose 100,000 in equity over the next few years, I’d buy the house. But then I’ve always gotten along with dogs better than with people.

Hey, aren’t dogs supposed to be smarter than people after all? If they could only vote! ;)

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I have no idea what I want to do in 30 years. Right now I dream of moving to somewhere warm and cheap to retire.

That would be a situation where you would want to buy a house in an expensive area and pay it off. You could then sell and move to the cheaper area and have both a house and a pile of money.

Before the peak I was saying the run up in prices didn’t matter unless that was your plan, or you intended to someday downsize. As long as you still planned on living in the Seattle area in a house you owned, the run up in prices didn’t really make you richer. You still just had a Seattle area house and your other assets (less debts).

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Maybe I’m not looking at this correctly, but at the end of 30 years, you actually own something that hopefully is worth something. I wouldn’t want to retire still paying rent, maybe someone can shine a little light on this for me. After 30 years the person renting would still presumably be rquired to continue paying rent where the house purchaser would not be paying rent or mortgage (excluding taxes, insurance, maintainence), am I wrong?

I have no idea what I want to do in 30 years. Right now I dream of moving to somewhere warm and cheap to retire. That will evolve and change. What will most likely happen is I chase my kids and want live close to my grandchildren (My twins are three).

The only good reason for me to purchase a house “now” is that I “want” to live in particular area and have a “home” for my kids. I have a very different view of a “house” vs a “home”.

We still will probably buy, but it isn’t going to be for financial reasons.

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Well, the way to calculate it is thus:

For each dollar of monthly expenses (for rent & renters insurance for the apartment dweller, or in the alternate, taxes, homeowners insurance and upkeep for the paid off home OWNER) you’ll need 300 to 400 dollars of income producing investments, depending on what rate you think you can earn.

For 3% interest or dividend yield, you’ll need 400 dollars of investments per dollar of monthly income. (0.03 x 400 dollars = 12 dollars / year = 1 dollar / month).

For 4% interest or dividend yeild, you’ll need 300 dollars of investments per dollar of monthly income. (0.04 x 300 dollars = 12 dollars / year = 1 dollar / month).

The super conservative might only get 2%. They’ll need 600 dollars of investments per dollar of monthly expense.

Going with the 3% yield: That means that my approximate 250 / month in property taxes and homeowners insurance on my modest paid off house requires that I have $100,000 in investments to pay those expenses. Throw in another 200 / month for upkeep and there’s another 80,000 I’ll need to pay for that. So, with a 180k, plus the house paid off, I have a place to live, forever. Lets say the house is currently 175k, so I’ll have assets of 355k.

Lets see what the renter can do with the same 355k (the 175k value of the house plus the 180k) at 3% yield: Well, that’s 10,650 / year or about 888 a month. So, what can you get for 888 / month? A heck of a lot less that what I have.

Even if you were working as a greeter at Wally World, earning 450 / month after tax is a wee bit easier than 890.

Yeah, I’ll take the fully paid for home over renting in retirement any day of the week.

My 2 cents, YMMV, different strokes for different folks….yadda, yadda, yadda.

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Agreed, the rental market is equally tight right now and only more so for those with pets. I’ve known many folks to get pushed out of cities for the very reason. We obviously got lucky moving to Seattle, as we found a house in a great neighborhood that accepted pets and only required a 6 month lease.

Given the neighborhood, space and the rent I pay, there’s no way I could mortgage this place for what I’m paying currently. This all comes at a 25% less than we payed in Oakland…yes, Oakland. So the inverse reality you experienced it out there too.

So I do see your “NOW” urgency, it’s just not that way for us and makes the current reality a little hard to accept.

I did hear that Seattle has a pending glut of rentals coming on the market over the next 18months…but that doesn’t help you now :)

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Erin my gift to you that I have given MANY MANY people on here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqFO-Udq6s

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