About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

69 comments:

  1. 1
    Eleua says:

    This isn’t even close.

    If I owned both Hell and DT Seattle, I’d rent out DT Seattle and live in Hell.

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  2. 2
    sniffy says:

    I lived in DT Seattle for about 6 years total, in two different locations, until 2 years ago. I love the city. I love the services. I love the movement and noise and buses and urban canyons and the occasional glimpse of water down the hill.

    But I hate the panhandlers and various other bottom-feeders. They’re everywhere now. It seems like it’s gotten worse over the last decade–or maybe I’m just getting old–and I’m not sure I could move back there now.

    On the other hand, just about everything about DT Bellevue–while nice and clean and basically cretin-free–is soulless and enervating.

    I pick option C, whatever that is.

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  3. 3
    Lo Ball Jones says:

    Uphill Kent.

    Here are some nice looking homes with even nicer looking prices. Why can’t we see more like these on the market!

    http://www.lennar.com/New-Homes/Washington/Seattle/Pacific/Beaver-Meadows

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  4. 4
    The Tim says:

    RE: Lo Ball Jones @ 3 – Hah, added bonus: Czech Sky!

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  5. 5
    David Losh says:

    RE: Lo Ball Jones @ 3

    Why would you want to pay a mortgage on that?

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  6. 6
    ARDELL says:

    Downtown Kirkland

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  7. 7

    By David Losh @ 5:

    RE: Lo Ball Jones @ 3

    Why would you want to pay a mortgage on that?

    What makes you think that your preferences as to housing matches everyone else’s?

    What makes you think LBJ would have to get a mortgage to buy that property?

    Not everyone is the same, likes the same things or has the same financial situation.

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  8. 8

    Seattle has a lot more diversity, so that would be my pick.

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  9. 9

    It’s like getting the choice on how you’d prefer to be executed: Lethal injection, or hanging?
    Downtown Kirkland, downtown Edmonds, downtown Burien, downtown Ballard all would preferable to either DT Seattle or DT Bellevue. I guess if the choice were to pick either DT Seattle or DT Bellevue, or get shot in the head? DT Bellevue, but ever so slightly.

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  10. 10
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7

    Didn’t ask you counselor.

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  11. 11

    RE: David Losh @ 10 – But I asked you! Don’t you recognize what a question mark means? What in the world makes you think everyone should like the same things you like?

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  12. 12
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 11

    You don’t like messy neighbors. I like “characters” who put out 87 gnomes. :) There are very few homes I can’t like, under the right circumstances and price.

    Either you or David has to become a girl if you are going to do the “Punch and Judy” show every weekend.

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  13. 13

    RE: ARDELL @ 12 – Not sure what any of that (gnomes and messy neighbors) has to do with living in either DT Bellevue or Kirkland.

    As to Losh, I’m not even sure LBJ really likes that place he linked in #3, but it’s totally uncalled for for Losh to be critical of that choice if that’s what LBJ likes. Losh can make his choices, which have apparently served him really poorly so far, and others can make their choices, and hopefully end up in a much better situation when they are his age. But the last thing Losh should be doing is questioning other peoples’ choices. That would be like Francesco Schettino questioning another captain’s navigation.

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/16/article-2263397-16EF7B8E000005DC-621_634x405.jpg

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  14. 14
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13

    But why do you always have to grab him by the throat instead of just letting it slide by? It’s really getting old, and seems much more pronounced on the weekends for some reason.

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  15. 15
    Mike says:

    By Lo Ball Jones @ 3:

    Uphill Kent.

    Here are some nice looking homes with even nicer looking prices. Why can’t we see more like these on the market!

    http://www.lennar.com/New-Homes/Washington/Seattle/Pacific/Beaver-Meadows

    I’ll guess because so many similar homes in that area were abandoned over the last few years.

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  16. 16
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 11

    Get another dead horse counselor.

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  17. 17
    David Losh says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 14

    The week ends is when I do my blog work, so I have some time to engage Kary Krismer.

    Most of the time it’s just a shake your head moment, I don’t really read his comments, but on the week ends he does seem to have more time to attack people in general.

    I understand that Kary adds a lot of comment content to this blog, but it is really poor content.

    It kind of fascinates me that one person can destroy a blog, while adding content.

    BTW Dustin did a spectacular job with Rain City Guide. I contacted him on his blog, because that is the look and feel we’ve been shooting for.

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  18. 18
    ARDELL says:

    Thanks David. Dustin has had his hands full, so it was easier for him to try to keep some similarity in his projects, hence the new look. Thank you for your kind words.

    Back to the topic, I recently did a property in U-District to close soon and I had the sniffy #2 comment experience. I quickly learned I needed to load up on $1 bills vs $5 bills on the very first morning.

    Oddly when I had a male helper with me and we went for coffee, not one person asked me for a thing. But when alone I was bombarded with requests for all kinds of things. I’m a soft touch, and it must be more apparent when I’m heading over for coffee alone than when I am with a male companion.

    I don’t think I’d make it long in the City as a full time resident. It might harden me to people in need, and I wouldn’t welcome that change in me.

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  19. 19
    toad37 says:

    From someone that lives in DT Bellevue, I was going to pick Seattle, but I have to go with Bellevue. If I was younger it would be a no-brainer for Seattle though.

    Been in DT Bellevue now for 1.5 years. Really tough to feel at home here. That being said it is looking like it was a great investment.

    @ Sniffy, #2,,, well said

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  20. 20
    Carl says:

    It’s interesting that the commenters are not representative of the anonymous voters. 63% prefer DT Sea to DT Bel, but the commenters generally would choose “neither”, and then if forced to choose, prefer DT Bel.

    So it seems like DT Seattle is preferred by the silent majority.

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  21. 21

    By ARDELL @ 14:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13

    But why do you always have to grab him by the throat instead of just letting it slide by? It’s really getting old, and seems much more pronounced on the weekends for some reason.

    This is a carryover from the Friday Flashback thread, where he’s spewing Losh nonsense and giving out really poor advice. But as to this thread, he’s being a huge hypocrite. Losh has been all over Ray recently for getting on someone’s case for their decisions/opinions, but here that’s okay for Losh to do because he doesn’t like the house someone linked?

    Losh claims I don’t know real estate, but he doesn’t know that different people like different types of houses. That’s pretty basic stuff. That’s why they build different types of houses on different size lots.

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  22. 22

    By Carl @ 20:

    So it seems like DT Seattle is preferred by the silent majority.

    There could be a lot of reasons for that, two of which come to mind. 1. More people probably work on the west side of the lake than the east. 2. Seattle is better if you like to go see live sports and most cultural events.

    It’s been about 15 years since I lived in DT Seattle (First Hill), and my main complaint then was much of downtown shut down in the evening back then. I’m not sure if that has changed, but there is always Broadway and Pioneer Square.

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  23. 23
    David B. says:

    Really neither, but if I must put up with the noise and high cost per square foot one gets in an urban core, I might as well get the absolute maximum of nearby services in return for it: Downtown Seattle

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  24. 24

    I like both but prefer DT Seattle. There are such nice restaurants and a lot of activity although the panhandlers get old.

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  25. 25
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 21

    This is very simple, I asked a question. You chose to address it.

    There was no reason for that.

    You had nothing to contribute, once again, you were looking for engagement.

    You want some back and forth over nothing but symatics.

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  26. 26

    RE: David Losh @ 24 – BS. While you did technically ask a question, it was not a “simple question.” All you said in your snotty response was:

    Why would you want to pay a mortgage on that?

    What you were basically asking is why in the world would LBJ like that type of property? You were trying to put his choice and that listing down.

    And there was a reason to address your “question.” You were being a hypocritical ass.

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  27. 27
    Blurtman says:

    Young professionals devolution: cubicle work environment——>cubicle condo environment—–>cubicle urban environment——>cubicle suburban environment (explains eastside developments seemingly devoid of outside venturing inhabitants.)

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  28. 28

    RE: Carl @ 20 – Blurtman showing up reminded me of another reason Seattle might be more popular. No drones! ;-)

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  29. 29
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 26

    OK, I have a few minutes.

    The question about Kent is the same as I have for North Everett, or Everett development in general.

    You have a building lot in the amount of maybe $50K. The builder puts some 2X6s, windows, insulation, siding, and roof. Now the whole thing is worth $220K.

    Over a thirty year period that technology that built the structure will be obsolete, so the structure should depreciate. It’s like buying a new car.

    So my question would be, wouldn’t the housing go down in value while you paid the price of a mortgage? Shouldn’t the pay off period be a little bit quicker than thirty years, like with a car?

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  30. 30

    RE: David Losh @ 29 – That’s just more backtracking, and really gets into the buy vs. rent analysis. And as I noted in my first response, why would you assume LBJ needs a mortgage to buy the place? And if so, why a 30 year mortgage?

    Also, while some things will depreciate, it’s hardly like buying a new car. The electrical and insulation might not be up to code 30 years from now, but they should both in all likelihood be more than adequate. Given modern building materials, it is entirely possible that the siding will need to be changed out within 30 years, but the rest would just be normal maintenance. In any case, not that many people keep a house for 30 years.

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  31. 31
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30

    Yes it is rent vs. buy, and right now renting is looking pretty darn good for some of these outlying areas.

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  32. 32

    By David Losh @ 31:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30

    Yes it is rent vs. buy, and right now renting is looking pretty darn good for some of these outlying areas.

    If you had said anything that even came close to meaning that, then we wouldn’t have had the discussion yesterday. What you did instead what put down LBJ’s choice of house and the house itself. There’s no way what you wrote could in any way be interpreted by anyone as what you’re now claiming. We’re not mind readers.

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  33. 33
    toad37 says:

    So, what Tim has asked is basically a condo question (if we assume ownership).

    If you had 400k to spend on a condo, where would it be? Also, would you buy now or would you wait a year or two?

    I’d really like to hear from the realtors
    or anyone that has researched the market lately.

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  34. 34

    RE: toad37 @ 33 – I haven’t looked at either market in over 6 months, which is not recent enough to give an opinion, IMHO. Earlier last year than that I was surprised how tight the market was in Seattle condos covering parts of downtown, Capitol Hill and parts of QA Hill.

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  35. 35
    David Losh says:

    RE: toad37 @ 33

    If it were my money $400K is better spent in Seattle.

    Bellevue has, in my opinion, very little to offer since South Lake Union has become such a hub for the hip.There is a lot of exciting development in Seattle, and with the right purchase I think Seattle will give greater returns.

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  36. 36
    toad37 says:

    @ Kary 34- Thanks, but I’m also opening the question to any area, not just Seattle or Bellevue.

    @ David 35, thanks for your thoughts. At 44 I’m no longer hip, but I can fake it and blend if the investment is right. :-)

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  37. 37

    RE: toad37 @ 36 – As to when to buy–now or a year or two, I don’t try to make those kind of predictions.

    As to where, for me in that price range it might be Madison Park, but I’d have to think long and hard about moving back within the city limits. I’d also be concerned about how the new 520 bridge might affect the unit. Not only will there be construction noise, but I believe the new bridge will be closer to land, so possibly more noisy.

    Decisions like where to buy though are often based on a commute, and as a real estate agent I don’t have a commute. Also, those decisions are highly personal, and my answer of Madison Park is based on my liking that area. It’s not based on relative values now or in the future.

    I would also add that condos take a lot of research. A lot are in trouble.

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  38. 38
    Plymster says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 27 – But at least we’re not in tiger cages like the residents of Hong Kong… yet.

    Off topic – Thanks for your posts, Blurtman. I always look forward to your insight.

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  39. 39
    toad37 says:

    @ Kary 37. Thanks for the feedback. I like that area too, but it is kinda hard to get in and out of, so I appreciate your commute comment.

    With supply so limited and rates so low, it just seems like right now is not the best time to buy. But no one knows the future… thanks for chiming in, really appreciate your expertise on the subject.

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  40. 40
    Erik says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 6
    I’d like to buy a condo in DT kirkland if i can ever afford it. I like those newer condos they built a block from the wingdome on central way behind the businesses. I think they are about $850k though for a 2 bedroom.

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  41. 41
    joe dirt says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 8

    Ah, the old diversity advantage. Census data:

    Seattle 69.5% white
    Bellevue 62.6% white (more Asians and Hispanics than Seattle).

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  42. 42

    RE: joe dirt @ 41 – I wasn’t just talking racial diversity. I was thinking more of economic diversity. Back when I lived on First Hill the economic diversity ranged from welfare to millionaires. Others might think of sexual orientation diversity.

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  43. 43
    joe dirt says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 42

    So Bellevue would be more attractive if it had more homeless, winos, etc.

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  44. 44

    RE: joe dirt @ 43 – It doesn’t have to be THAT diverse! ;-)

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  45. 45
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 37

    Madison Park is a bedroom community to downtown with very little upside. It’s hard to live there unless you are from the Capital Hill community. Condos there are scarce anyway.

    There are places in downtown that fit the price point, with some areas still in development.

    I like Bell Town, First Hill, and South Lake Union.

    The question is, if Seattle will hit the $1000 a square foot price point for downtown living. The second question is what buildings have the best chance of hitting that price point.

    I personally have never thought it would be a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.

    You have to look at over all financials, because some of the older buildings have been really well run, while some of the newer buildings are questionable. You also have to look at the view, or potential loss of a view in the unit you choose.

    The community of the building is also important.

    If you want cheaper you can go to Queen Ann, but the upside there may be a little less. There are some great units, in great locations there.

    I just prefer the amenities of Seattle to Bellevue. I agree about the homeless, it’s a very big problem. It is a learning curve.

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  46. 46
    toad37 says:

    David, good stuff.. thanks.

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  47. 47
    David B. says:

    RE: toad37 @ 36 – If you’re opening it to any area, then Bellingham would have to be my first choice if work wasn’t a factor. But of course it is a factor, so I’d want something more practical for commuting which would probably mean Bainbridge Island. In fact, I’ve been keeping an eye on the market there for a while, but with the current low inventory and crappy selection, I’m not holding my breath and counting on anything anytime soon.

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  48. 48
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Erik @ 40

    Probably the best buys have been in The Boulevard since it’s been “cash only”. I would expect an immediate price change at least to the level of Kirkland Central immediately after the financing ban is lifted…or in pretty short order. Not sure when that will be. Could have happened since I last looked a few weeks ago.

    Behind Central is a good spot, but for some of the older ones the 8′ vs 9′ and 10′ ceilings will be a long term factor that will make them hard to compete with some of the newer buildings.

    For the ones I think you are referring to, there will likely be massive special assessments at some point given the limited number of reserve fund participants. They are hybrid single family given there are not enough HOA participants to cover long term repair and replace of major components. As long as you factor that in, yes, I agree.

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  49. 49

    By ARDELL @ 48:

    RE: Erik @ 40 – Probably the best buys have been in The Boulevard since it’s been “cash only”. I would expect an immediate price change at least to the level of Kirkland Central immediately after the financing ban is lifted…or in pretty short order. Not sure when that will be..

    I’m not big at all on David’s comments about which areas have more upside, but I would get on board with this line of thinking. The point is to find places that are currently depressed in price, not to make wild ass guesses about which areas will do better in the future. In the context of a condo, that might be one unit or it might be an entire building, but it has to be depressed for an acceptable reason.

    Besides cash only, on the topic of condos I have seen places with very high dues, and have seen at least one place where that was done solely to raise reserves. The impact of that is to reduce prices, so if you have a solid building that already has decent reserves but is trying to raise them even higher, that type of situation could present a good buy, but not one with lower payments initially. Many people looking for good buys would though focus on payments due after closing..

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  50. 50
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49

    My point is that depressed areas may never have an upside. They are depressed for a reason. I think a lot of people have bought into this idea that prices were high in 2006, 2007, so we will be back there again, some day.

    I just think there are areas that have more possibility of appreciation, and those are the areas that have retained value.

    As far as a condo building it takes reading the financials and getting to know the dynamics of the building. There are things to look for in a unit, such as light, location, lay out, but over all you want a place that will be in good repair for the long run.

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  51. 51
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49

    There’s a section in Issaquah Zip Code in Bellevue School District that is slotted to be changed to a Bellevue Zip Code within the next few months. Some sellers are already trying to capture that potential value boost play, But for a short time it should be a buyer play.

    No guarantees as I have seen these things go sideways at the last minute, but another small pocket of potential.

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  52. 52

    By David Losh @ 50:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49 – My point is that depressed areas may never have an upside. They are depressed for a reason. I think a lot of people have bought into this idea that prices were high in 2006, 2007, so we will be back there again, some day.

    I just think there are areas that have more possibility of appreciation, and those are the areas that have retained value.

    In post 45 you said Madison Park had little upside. Do you consider that area depressed?

    Again, I don’t like to predict the future, but I would disagree with your analysis. Areas that have declined more in value are more volatile, and volatility works both ways. Using Skyway as an example, in 2005-2006 it was one of the highest appreciating markets in the area on a percentage basis. 2008-2011 it was probably one of the worst performing areas. What will it do next? Hard to say, but that’s more because it’s hard to say what the overall market will do. If the overall market increases, I would expect Skyway to have some pretty good appreciation.

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  53. 53

    By ARDELL @ 51:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49

    There’s a section in Issaquah Zip Code in Bellevue School District that is slotted to be changed to a Bellevue Zip Code within the next few months. Some sellers are already trying to capture that potential value boost play, But for a short time it should be a buyer play.

    Sounds like an old Almost Live skit, where people in Bellevue were up in arms over being in the same new area code as Renton. ;-)

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  54. 54

    By David Losh @ 50:

    <As far as a condo building it takes reading the financials and getting to know the dynamics of the building.

    I would agree, but I would point out getting the financials typically cannot be done until after you make an offer. I think the owners of condos that are well run would be well served popping to pay for a resale certificate and making that available. It’s like the Doomsday Machine in Dr. Strangelove.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4DNo69gL1s

    What’s the point of having a strong condo association if no one knows about it? (reference is to end at 4:10)

    The only time I remember that being done by a seller was when the condo association was in huge trouble. They apparently wanted buyers to know before they wasted their time presenting an offer. That too is probably a good idea.

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  55. 55
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 52

    Madison Park is old money, you have to consider the dynamics of the neighborhood.

    I like Renton, a lot. I think Renton has upside potential, but I am slowly realizing it may never have the development it needs to become a hot market.

    There are too many other areas, like downtown Seattle, that have higher profit potential.

    I’m looking at volitility as a thing of the past. If I’m going to gamble I want more of a sure thing.

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  56. 56
    Doug says:

    I work in Bellevue, and it’s pretty soulless, but DT Seattle is absolutely lousy with drugs and drunks. Has been for years.

    DT Bellevue.

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  57. 57
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 54

    I just tried to do that for Molasses Creek down in your neck of the woods. $275 for a resale certificate good for 90 days and no “update fee” potential. Not sure it’s worth a second $275 to know in advance. Still deciding. Plus it’s like a college transcript. A seller should not touch the buyer’s copy. Buyer should know seller didn’t pull anything out.

    Worth mentioning. Copy of Reserve Study Summary is not always in there. It is the most important document to determine past useful life, 0 remaining, items. Usually zero is the lowest shown, so you have to dig deeper to know if zero means “do now” or should have been done three years ago. A big heads up for future special assessment and determining if Reserves are adequate and if Board is not spending Reserves appropriately.

    Having the money but not using it in a timely manner for the purpose intended can be as bad as not having it at all.

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  58. 58

    RE: ARDELL @ 57 – I don’t know that you’d necessarily have to keep it updated, although obviously it would need to be updated if you found a buyer later.

    An alternative might be for a seller to make their own informal resale certificate, having copies of financial statements, minutes, etc. available. Often those are available to owners or even sent out periodically. Sometimes the larger associations have a webpage that may require a sign in.

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  59. 59

    By David Losh @ 55:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 52 – Madison Park is old money, you have to consider the dynamics of the neighborhood.

    It’s money, but I’m not sure it’s old money. The residents are not necessarily old. I’d only be guessing where their money came from.

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  60. 60
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 58

    A seller should be providing the documentation before the Resale Certificate is ordered. A seller should have all the documents pertaining to the building as a matter of disclosure, but more importantly to make the property more salable, unless there is something to hide.

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  61. 61
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 59

    It’s old money trading many times in cash. It’s a fairly closed community. I lived there for a year, knew some people, but wasn’t a part of the crowd. It was pretty lonely.

    BTW it was the only place where my house was ransacked, by kids, who trashed the place.

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  62. 62

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 59
    Old money certainly was the reputation Madison Park has had for a long time, and certainly the adjoining neighborhoods of Washington Park/Broadmoor have lots of old rich people.
    Madison Park used to have the reputation of being one of the last bastions for Republicans in Seattle too. They might still be there, but they’re in the closet now.

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  63. 63
    ARDELL says:

    RE: David Losh @ 60

    I disagree. The buyer is entitled to a REAL Resale Certificate per the contract. Getting one in advance may lead them to believe they have actually received “the Resale Certificate”. The real one should not pass through the seller’s hands. It should go straight from the Professional Management Company to the buyer, so there is no chance the seller might have pulled anything out that may be detrimental to the sale or sold price.

    That is for both the buyer’s and the seller’s protection.

    Why you would think a rinky-dink-make-shift seller thrown together one is worth anything boggles my mind, given your normal position on things being above reproach and beyond suspect.

    The reason I want one in advance is not for the buyer. It is because the seller is subject to the buyer cancelling “on the resale certificate” and should know in advance what the buyer will be seeing…exactly. I’m thinking ordering two copies is the answer and wondering if two copies at the same time will cost 2 X $275. I’ll know soon enough. Should be listing that around March 15th or so.

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  64. 64
    HappyRenter says:

    I don’t like Seattle downtown. I feel like those tall buildings are going to crash me. Also, too much traffic and LOTS of construction sites. Downtown Bellevue might not be too exciting but at least I’m quicker out in the mountains, and hey, there is a nice Marmot shop there!

    Seattle downtown is probably more convenient in terms of shops and restaurants but I’m not sure it pays off.

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  65. 65

    RE: ARDELL @ 63 – I think David was just discussing making the documents available.

    I’m not sure I see your two copies issue. Often the listing agent gets the disclosure statement first and then gives it to the selling agent. Yes there is a theoretical potential for abuse there, but I think it’s minimal.

    More and more frequently the resale certificate is electronic, such as where the association uses Condocerts.com (which can either be a great service or very problematic).

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  66. 66
    ARDELL says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 65

    I have never seen it pass through the seller or seller’s agent first for my buyer clients. I pick
    it up from the management office direct. I don’t trust a seller’s agent handing me some home made version. Surprised you would.

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  67. 67
    David Losh says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 63

    Oh, please, the seller wants to sell, and if they want to obstruct that they certainly can, but buying a resale certificate just to know if you want to write is kind of ridiculous.

    You’re not buying anything in a condo except what the HOA provides you. You aren’t putting on the roof, you aren’t doing the post inspection repairs.

    A seller, and a listing agent should make all the documentaion available at the time of listing. You can always compare to the actual certificate once you have it.

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  68. 68
    David Losh says:

    RE: ARDELL @ 66

    and yes you do pick it up direct, but as I said if the documents are doctored you’d know it eventually. It’s a matter of open disclosure.

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  69. 69

    RE: ARDELL @ 66 – There’s usually a list of exhibits, and if you don’t get a document you want you can go back and ask for it. It would be rather hard to totally fabricate a condo doc. I could see it might be easy to remove one.

    But it’s probably been three years since I’ve seen one that wasn’t electronic. I was just looking over a new one now, and the missing document is the resale certificate! That’s through another company–not Condocerts.com, but that seems really sloppy.

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