Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

53 responses to “Top 10 Future Uses for the 98-Acre Boeing Everett Factory”

  1. Kary L. Krismer

    I know this is tongue in cheek, but I really doubt Boeing expected that contract to be approved or that Everett is out of the running. Boeing is moving a lot of employees into the state.

    That said, I think it is in Boeing’s interest to build the 777x somewhere other than Everett or South Carolina. Boeing management should be looking elsewhere, but they may be too stupid to realize that (as opposed to using the threat as a negotiating tool). South Carolina is probably out of the running, unless the 777x is expected to be such a poor seller that they will only need to produce less than 3 a month.

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  2. Fulano Taveras

    Turn it into a regional air freight/shipping hub. Relocate all regional FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. operations from Boeing Field, Kent Valley, etc. to Paine Field. It would ease air traffic congestion at Seatac and Boeing Field, and ease auto/truck traffic throughout the south end of the metropolitan region.

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  3. softwarengineer

    There Will be Some Use for the Everett Facillity by Boeing

    Even though the 767 Tanker uses almost all like Japanese foreign manufacturing parts to build the A/C; by gosh Americans still get to use their pliars and screw drivers [rivets] to assemble it on the Assembly Tools. Boeing’s midwest management can’t extract those jigs from Everett, they’re pile driven in. So, the machinists and manufacturing engineers may get a few hundred jobs if the Tanker contract isn’t cancelled due to Sequestration.

    When did America become an “engineerless” assembler of a box of like Chinese parts and fasteners? They should at least employ engineers to write the Asian assembly instructions right, have any of you tried to assemble those convoluted sets? No wonder they send them to us that way, they can’t put ‘em together right either….LOL

    Ohhhh, that’s right….we must outsource American engineer jobs to higher paid engineers in Japan and EU….but what’s that got to do with global competition?

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  4. Howard

    While I wish that Boeing was not playing hardball and the area will probably lose more livable wage jobs, the writing is on the wall. We are in a race for the bottom. This will be a reverse auction.

    What ever state can give the most tax breaks and the newest exit off of a highway combined with an available workforce that is very willing to work for as close to minimum wage as they can strangle out of employees is where Boeing will be building planes.

    Why hire at $30-40 an hour plus health insurance and pensions (which ends up costing more towards $45-50 and hour) when you can find people to work for $15, have them work part time on food stamps and government supported healthcare.

    I am not a “corporate greed” shouter, nor am I radical socialist.. but the CEO and stockholders want to maximize the profits.

    It is every man/woman for themselves….

    Walmart/America… what is the difference?

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  5. Kary L. Krismer

    By Howard @ 5:

    Why hire at $30-40 an hour plus health insurance and pensions (which ends up costing more towards $45-50 and hour) when you can find people to work for $15, have them work part time on food stamps and government supported healthcare.

    Because you want to build more than 3 planes a month?

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  6. Plymster

    Kary keeps hitting on the one point that employers and anti-unionists miss. The employer NEEDS the union employees to make their product. It’s not like there are airplane machinists in every town. It’s a highly specialized skill.

    If Boeing continues down this path, you can fully expect poorly built planes, produced slowly, and more cheaply, with management reaping the savings until Airlines only buy from Airbus.

    Employers aren’t doing their employees a favor by hiring them. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

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  7. Blurtman

    Holding pen for Magneto, aka Hank Paulson.

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  8. Blurtman

    RE: Plymster @ 7 – Where it is going. Quite a good read.

    One way these factories reduce workers’ wages is not to employ them directly. By the estimate of one former manager, roughly 70 percent of the workers at Nissan’s plant in Smyrna, Tennessee, aren’t Nissan employees but rather are under contract to temporary employment-service companies that pay them roughly half the hourly wage of Nissan’s own employees. One academic survey found that while just 2.3 percent of manufacturing workers in 1989 were temps, by 2004 the number had risen to 8.7 percent.

    Southern competition is one reason newer hires at the Detroit Three’s auto plants have hourly wages that top out between $16 and $19, while workers hired before the institution of the two-tier system can see their base pay rise to between $29 and $33 an hour. A cumulative effect of Wal-Martization is that incomes in the industrial Midwest have been dropping toward levels set in Alabama and Tennessee. According to Moody’s Analytics, the wage-and-benefit gap between Midwestern and Southern workers, which was $7 in 2008, had shrunk to just $3.34 by the end of 2011.

    http://prospect.org/article/40-year-slump

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  9. softwarengineer

    RE: Plymster @ 7

    What’s Wrong With Union Wages Anyway?

    I know, the i.e., “foreign automobile engineerless assembly plants” shun unions to get out of pensions and livable wages….but ask Ford in the 20s when automobiles first went into manufacturing. He quickly found out that without livable wages no one buys Fords [he raised all his wages and made a killing selling Fords]…..low wage non-union workers won’t be buying plane tickets too for that matter.

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  10. Howard

    By softwarengineer @ 10:

    RE: Plymster @ 7

    What’s Wrong With Union Wages Anyway?

    I know, the i.e., “foreign automobile engineerless assembly plants” shun unions to get out of pensions and livable wages….but ask Ford in the 20s when automobiles first went into manufacturing. He quickly found out that without livable wages no one buys Fords [he raised all his wages and made a killing selling Fords]…..low wage non-union workers won’t be buying plane tickets too for that matter.

    Easy credit.. With the average SUV costing a full years salary for a lot of people…

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  11. Erik

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2
    Where can boeing find 30,000 skilled aerospace employees? The only 2 places I can think of is Everett Washington and Toulouse France. The charleston aerospace workers came in from home depot, mcdonalds, kmart, arbys, etc. It will take them 20 years to gain the skills to develop an airplane and build it. Florida and California may be a little better than other states. Japan is the other option.

    Boeing wants to play different locations off one another in order to get the best deal from employees and their respective governments. They will beat down employees compensation until boeing is no longer a great place to work and they will lose the best talent. Aerospace engineers will get a degree in software engineering in America instead.

    Don’t be the last one to sell your real estate in the puget sound area. The last one to sell will be the sucker left holding the bag. My guess is that “The Tim’s” house will decrease in value dramatically after he spent countless hours calculating the best time to buy. The house value is directly related to the number 1 company by far in Everett… Boeing. Less demand means lower prices for Everett real estate. Everett provides consistent letdowns for those that choose to buy there. When I bought there, they claimed they were about to blow up and do all this renovation of the city. Didn’t happen. Now, there is no way it will happen. The city will degrade until it is turned into a landfill.

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  12. Erik

    RE: Howard @ 5
    Because when a plane is designed, it is built near by. It doesn’t work to design it somewhere other than the build location as we saw with the 787. You get what you pay for in this case. If boeing tries to cut costs again as they did with the 787, it will cost them a lot more money than it would have cost them to build it in overpriced washington state. They are trying to invest elsewhere. In 20 years, it may workout for them. Going anywhere else will be extremely costly for them. There will be tons of rework and everett washington will have to bail them out again like they did when the 787 outsourcing plan didn’t work. On the 787, the parts didn’t work. Everett had to redesign them and build them correctly. This will happen on the 777x if they build in another state.

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  13. jcub

    How about research lab for eventual zombie apocalypse? Or a squirrel treadmill center?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61yAK6oSXRM

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  14. jcub

    RE: Howard @ 5

    I wouldn’t be shocked if Michigan (Detroit specifically) goes after a “manufacturing jobs” run at it….. You somewhat have the infrastructure in the area, cost of living is next to nothing causing lower wages, and the Pistons are far better than the Sonics….

    Further if Boeing left the state would we consider the potential change to a future NBA team? Maybe the Seattle Windows Vista’s or Seattle Barista’s?

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  15. Dead Everett

    The Boeing Everett plant has only about 3-4 years left before it’s either deemed obsolete , “too expensive” or “no longer technically relevant” and jobs QUICKLY move elsewhere… First, the housing market will collapse…already, experts are estimating housing values in Snohomish Co. would drop by 20-50% without the 777X!! Good for low-income, immigrant folks looking to escape high priced King County..then , without middle-class incomes to support them, your Major malls, “big box” electronic stores, restaurants and local sports teams will quickly disappear and become boarded up, vacant havens for the “undesirables”… Finally, when no one “wants” to live in Snohomish County anymore..they “have” to live in Snohomish Co. because they it’s the only place cheap enough for them to live., the State will have to step in to alleviate the growing problems of rampant crime, drug dealing and bikini baristas run amok!! 2020- The Year Snohomish County Died….

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  16. Howard

    RE: Erik @ 12

    If you think management believes that they “need” “skilled” workers, I think you are mistaken. They would rather dumb the assembly down so that any fry cook can handle it.

    There isn’t a lot of demand for aerospace engineers, they will go where the jobs are. If you are stuck on the physical presence thing, they make airplanes and video conferencing for that…

    The days of meeting people face to face and working out solutions are sadly over.

    How many people choose asking a question through email vs a phone? My office doesn’t even have a desk phone anymore. There is a phone down the hall in server room only because it is hard to hear cellphones with all the fans.

    Good/bad, the world is changing. I bet the same things were said by the blacksmith, the telegraph operator, and “computer operator”

    Heck, you go into some quick serve restaurants here in Seattle and they have iPads to order your food, even with a live human cashier standing right there. They then place your lunch in a bag and put on a shelf for pickup. No need to talk to a human. (Specialty’s Cafes around Denny/South Lake Union/Amazon)

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  17. Peter Witting

    Giant for-profit penitentary! The state can recoup the tax revenue Boeing used to provide, and the machinists will have somewhere to work.

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  18. Erik

    RE: Howard @ 17
    “There isn’t a lot of demand for aerospace engineers, they will go where the jobs are.”

    This seems like it is the unfortunate reality. :(

    This could change though, and I hope it does.

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  19. softwarengineer

    RE: Erik @ 13

    So True Erik

    Its called producibility and “assembled in America automobiles” with “higher priced” engineers in Japan, South Korea and EU equals subpar producibility….imagine a design engineer making changes because the blue collar in America want a better design. Its a complete joke. You need design and manufacturing in the same area.

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  20. softwarengineer

    RE: Erik @ 19

    I’m a Nuclear/mechanical Engineer and Came very Clost to Moving to Richland

    To work the fast flux reactor development for Westinghouse, I came in second [two interviews] out of 50 candidates…..had I got the job I’d be speaking french right now….LOL…only France uses fast flux now.

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  21. softwarengineer

    RE: Howard @ 17

    Yes Howard

    Many unskilled could easily be replaced with robots….even your job.

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  22. Howard

    By softwarengineer @ 22:

    RE: Howard @ 17

    Yes Howard

    Many unskilled could easily be replaced with robots….even your job.

    Yep, I would be the first to agree… Half the time I am a glorified button pusher (reset, did you plug it in, did you turn it ON?) No longer replacing parts, just modules.. and it tells me which module is bad… then we send the module away for repair…

    They have dumbed down my field where even I can do it. Back in the 1970s it would take an ex-military trained or really motivated person to work on the same stuff. Today, not so much.

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  23. Erik

    RE: softwarengineer @ 21
    “I’m a Nuclear/mechanical Engineer and Came very Clost to Moving to Richland”
    I’m a mechanical engineer. Why do you call yourself “Softwarengineer” if you are a nuclear/mechanical engineer?

    Mechanical engineering seems like it was not the best field since all the manufacturing is moving to other countries. I will have my masters degree in mechanical engineering this winter. I was thinking a better choice may have been to just get a law degree. You get paid more and you can live about anywhere. Someone always needs a lawyer. Mechanical Engineer…. not so much.

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  24. Lo Ball Jones

    Here’s what $150,000 buys you in North Charleston (where the 787 plants are):

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4201-Meadowbrook-Ct-Unknown-Charleston-SC-29420/2110079664_zpid/

    Bedrooms:5 beds
    Bathrooms:3.5 baths
    Single Family:4,225 sq ft
    Lot:0.44 acres

    Is there any reason to stay?

    Nope.

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  25. whatsmyname

    By Howard @ 5:

    While I wish that Boeing was not playing hardball and the area will probably lose more livable wage jobs, the writing is on the wall. We are in a race for the bottom. …..

    It is every man/woman for themselves….

    Walmart/America… what is the difference?

    This is just the unmentioned part of “the private sector does everything better”; the ownership society from the non-owner’s POV.

    Break’s over. Get back to work.

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  26. Pegasus

    How about a massive “fun” park for all of the sexual predators that live in Tim’s neighborhood? A place filled with pink ponies and real estate agents all looking for the same thing.

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  27. ray pepper

    RE: Pegasus @ 28 – that’s a great idea but I was hoping more for a World Renown Massive HUGE new club. I’ve been losing a lot of weight and look much better now..Maybe the old lady and I could have “fun” at the new plant:http://www.horizonsclub.com/club-rules

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  28. ray pepper

    ya know with David gone (which still gets me VERY sad when I think about it), less and less Corndog, the thumbs down option gone, the Wa Law Atty gone, the chubby mortgage guy (forgot his name) never here, Millionnaire Mike never to be seen again, people need to step it up. I know Kary is back and Pegasus gets me laughing but in the words of the Joker:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKofnVkUwBA

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  29. Scotsman

    Storage depot for the 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition Homeland Security has purchased? To include indoor practice ranges.

    Indoor amusement park for Google high-end customers and their entertainment? Get rid of those silly barges.

    International jet-port/hub for “Whores of the World,” a once in a lifetime experience. Try a little taste of the exotic in a unique international fantasy.

    Bowling! Bowling! Bowling!!

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  30. Dr Rick

    By softwarengineer @ 10:

    RE: Plymster @ 7

    What’s Wrong With Union Wages Anyway?

    I know, the i.e., “foreign automobile engineerless assembly plants” shun unions to get out of pensions and livable wages….but ask Ford in the 20s when automobiles first went into manufacturing. He quickly found out that without livable wages no one buys Fords [he raised all his wages and made a killing selling Fords]…..low wage non-union workers won’t be buying plane tickets too for that matter.

    Look at Kaiser Shipbuilding in WW2 in Portland as an example where management figured out that it made economic sense to provide health care and other benefits for it’s workers. It worked.
    We will eventually figure out that out sourcing everything, while cheaper in the short term, eventually has consequences such as lack of accountability. You can only shift risk and cost to the workers for so long until they go away. You can’t generate skilled employees overnight.
    I am not all that interested in flying on anything that I know is a product of cheapest bids across the board.

    Fel Temp Reparatio

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  31. Matthew

    Let’s turn the place into the Thunderdome. First match, Matthew vs. Cornhole and/or Erik.

    Two men enter, one man leaves.

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  32. redmondjp

    Boeing is now on their ‘Walt Disney’ tour (flying around the country looking for a new location):

    http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2022257705_boeingreactionxml.html

    The difference being, Boeing isn’t doing it in secret. Let’s start a pool: how many other states can we get into a bidding war to land the 777x?

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  33. Will

    RE: Erik @ 12 – You are an absolute uninformed IDIOT! Anyone can build an airplane, its not rocket science. How do I know you may ask? Did my 20 yr sentence at Everett and got the hell out of that political joke of a company. Skilled workers are only the result of training, of which S.C. has had in place for some time. What you people do not know is the boxes and boxes of rejections that accomapy EVERY airplane out of everett.

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  34. Erik

    RE: Matthew @ 33
    I think you have real estate knowledge, but so far, corndogs has been the leader in precisely predicting the future of prices of real estate. I don’t personally know corndogs, but based on what he says on here, he has the best understanding of the market and what is going to happen in the market. I like corndogs, but the moment no longer gives valuable advice, I would shank him.

    You clearly predicted the market was at the top and selling later would have not been worth it. Corndogs said the opposite. Corndogs said we hit the bottom and bounced up to stay for atleast a while. I’m just an observer looking for the best advice, and so far your advice has not been good advice. You would have cost me atleast $15k. I almost took your advice, but I’m glad i didn’t. I debated it and decided not to take it.

    Will- How long do you think it takes to train someone in aerospace? I work in Everett as an Aerospace engineer. It takes a long time to develop the skill to design and analyze airplanes. It takes about 2 years alone just to learn to use the tools like CATIA V5, ENOVIA, PATRAN/NASTRAN. You are the idiot pal. You seem scorned. I see by your violent temper, perhaps you blew up on someone and got fired. Maybe you busted rivets? I don’t know how much learning is involved in the shop since i really don’t go there. I stay in the office where it is warm, cozy, and the coffee flows like water.

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  35. mike

    RE: Lo Ball Jones @ 25 – You realize most of North Charleston is basically equivalent in quality to Parkland or Spanaway, right? You can already get a gigantic house down there for less than the price of a tear down in North Seattle:

    http://www.redfin.com/WA/Spanaway/19012-18th-Ave-E-98387/home/22764196

    Actually, Parkland is probably quite a bit nicer than North Charleston…

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  36. Seipherd

    They’ll convert Boeing Everett into the indoor Disney NW. Most every Disney Ride could fit into the buildings. Operates without weather issues 365/year.

    Folks will be able to fly right into Paine Field and exit the plane right into the Indoor Magic Kingdom. Maybe there will be a Disney Cruise anchor site in Everett –kids bus or tram up to to Disney NW, parents go to the casinos… And locals won’t have to fly anywhere to get the Disney experience.

    And with lots machinist techie jobs moving away, there will be plenty of new low ed union jobs opening up to clean up, run the rides and dress up as Mickey and Goofy.

    It will all work out just fine.

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  37. redmondjp

    RE: Seipherd @ 38 – That’s not a bad idea! An indoor year-round water park would be great as well.

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  38. Jonness

    By Dead Everett @ 16:

    Finally, when no one “wants” to live in Snohomish County anymore..they “have” to live in Snohomish Co. because they it’s the only place cheap enough for them to live., the State will have to step in to alleviate the growing problems of rampant crime, drug dealing and bikini baristas run amok!! 2020- The Year Snohomish County Died….

    So your theory is, all the Boeing workers who refused to twist screwdrivers for $40/hr will end up working for minimum wage in bikini baristas (or robbing them for crack money)? Actually, it doesn’t sound too far off the mark when you consider what became of Detroit after facing a similar situation.

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  39. Young Gun

    I am a Boeing Machinist and I find most all of your comments toward union workwea offensive… But not far from the truth! Lol! I was disappointed the folks didn’t pass the contract extension. I voted yes because I was worried that Boeing may leave. I have 2 homes in N Everett and a house in Snohomish where I can see the lights from Boeing. Its bad for everyone if they leave. The subsidies handed out by our state may be the only thing keeping Boeing in Everett.

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  40. Macro Investor

    The only real need for all that floor space is for an NSA data center. Which is good, because if Obama makes any more speeches storing them will take up every hard drive in the known universe.

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  41. No Name Guy

    RE: Dr Rick @ 32

    Ahem….Dr. Rick, in fact Kaiser did health care since there were wage and price controls. Conveniently they got the Government to exempt fringe benefits from said wage controls. Therefore, Kaiser used the medical plan as a back door way to raise wages to attract the war workers they needed to the shipyards, when they were forbidden by Government Policy from being forthright about it.

    More generally – all…check the Boeing orders and deliveries page, along with the undelivered reports. Check the press releases for the current production rates. Do the math on the back log (in years of production at current rates). Current products of Everett are 787, 747, 777 and 767.

    747 is toast in a few years (much like the A380 will be). It’s a now obsolete basic design, which is shown in the dismal order book. 50 something in the book….building at 18 a year….toast by 2016…..2018 at the latest, even with cuts in rates and a few orders.

    767 – the only reason airlines have bought Pax versions in the last few years is as filler until they can get 787’s. 5 will get you 10 the recent freighter orders were beat out of Boeing by Fed Ex and UPS at bargain basement prices since BA needed filler work until the tanker could ramp up. But even then, the tanker will only produce, what, 2 a month? How many guys needed to do that? Hardly any.

    777, current gen: As soon as the 777X is up and running in its new home, this is a dead model (much as the Max is killing the Next Gen 737 and how the Next Gen killed the “Classic” 737). Everett classic 777 line is done by 2020-2022 at the latest.

    That leaves the 787 as the only long term, major, high rate production program in Everett. OK….but how much you want to bet the IAM will throw a hissy fit and strike in 2016? The company will then shake their heads and announce an expansion of the line on SC since they need to deliver to the customer on their promises and Everett has proven an unreliable factory. When production slow down happens (hmmmm….I’d guess about 2020 as the current back log is worked through) I’d guess that the company will cut Everett over SC.

    Sorry IAM (and SPEEA, of which I’m a member) – the horse escaped from the barn when the SC line opened. That barrier to entry, having final assembly lines only here, is GONE, forever. You may thank yourselves for this by, in part, striking, striking and striking some more. They slapped the company one too many times and the company said to heck with that and shifted some eggs from the Washington basket elsewhere. But that’s what you get when IAM and SPEEA are focused on a 3 or 4 year contract (now, now, now, gimmie, gimmie, gimmie) when they’re working on a product that has a 20, 30 or 40 year design cycle. Helllloooooo……long term thinking? Do ya think that the world is going to stay the cushy duopoly of only Boeing and Airbus? Hello, McFly? It’s called Bombardier. They’re called Embraer. Mitsubishi Regional Jet anyone (and the 737 sized product after that). And don’t get me started on the incompetence of the management idiots that came up with that design and manufacturing plan on the 787….pure stupidity. How do I know? They’re wanting to build the wings of the 777x right next to the final assembly, instead of spending big bucks to fly ‘em half way round the world, to name one example.

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  42. mm

    Regarding comment from: Kary L. Krismer

    This statement that “Boeing is moving a lot of employees into the state” is not accurate.

    Boeing is NOW cutting machinists, engineers and IT workers around Puget Sound and
    adding employees in each of those categories at other U.S. locations.

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  43. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: mm @ 44 – So I guess I don’t happen to personally know four that were moved here within the past 12 months????

    I don’t know what the net numbers are, but clearly Boeing is moving people here. One inspector I know mentioned it was a sizable portion of his business.

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  44. Kary L. Krismer

    By No Name Guy @ 43:

    But even then, the tanker will only produce, what, 2 a month? How many guys needed to do that? Hardly any..

    Or an entire factory if Boeing’s experience with the 787 in South Carolina is any indication. :-D

    Their goal is to get that line up to three planes a month by the end of the year.

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  45. Jay

    RE: Plymster @ 7
    That is far from the truth. Unions don’t guarantee quality.

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  46. mm

    “This statement that “Boeing is moving a lot of employees into the state” is not accurate.
    Mar 26, 2013, 10:35am PDT

    Boeing plans to cut or relocate more Puget Sound area jobs

    Boeing announced last week that it would lay off about 800 commercial jet workers this year. Now it looks like hundreds of white-collar Boeing jobs will be moved out of the Puget Sound area or cut as well, The Seattle Times reports.

    The Times reported that about 40 software engineers in AWACS (airborne warning and control system) were laid off last Friday in Kent. Boeing Co. (NYSE: BA) also gave 60-day layoff notices last week to 59 other defense-side employees, the newspaper said.

    Boeing may move some engineering support from Everett to Long Beach, Calif., Boeing Commercial Airplane Services (CAS) managers told employees earlier this month, the Times reported.

    Boeing spokeswoman Jill Langer told the Times that “at this point, they are just doing studies” on moving that work.

    Also, the company’s IT support group of between 700 and 800 people companywide will be restructured over the next three years, Boeing’s Chicago-based chief information officer, Kim Hammonds, told employees last Thursday. The group will be reduced by up to 10 percent, with some of the cuts coming through attrition and layoffs expected in May and September, the Times reported.

    Some IT support work will moved from the Puget Sound area and Southern California to St. Louis and to Charleston, S.C., according to the Times.

    FOLLOW the Puget Sound Business Journal on Twitter @PSBJ and on Facebook | Click here to sign up for the PSBJ Daily Update

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  47. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: mm @ 48 – Boeing is constantly moving people around. I was, however, able to find data on the net changes. According to the company website, they are down about 4000 employees in Washington since the beginning of 2013.

    http://www.boeing.com/boeing/aboutus/employment/employment_table.page

    But they are up about 1,000 since the beginning of 2012 and up about 8,000 since the beginning of 2011.

    http://www.boeing.com/boeing/aboutus/employment/employment_table_2012.page

    Moving jobs out of the state likely gets more press than moving jobs in. For example that story about 40 jobs probably wouldn’t have been covered at all in the other direction. Finally, a number of the job cuts are just due to the 787 assembly program maturing and have been expected since the beginning.

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  48. joedirt

    What happened to Detroit can never happen to Seattle, because the Boeing machinists are the smartest, most skilled, and hardest working people on the planet. Just read the sign:

    http://www.kirotv.com/ap/ap/washington/boeing-machinists-voting-on-contract-extension/nbqzr/

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  49. Corndogs

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49 – Boeing will break the Seattle unions, to do this they have to leave the state. Engineering core will go to Southern California to conservative Orange county with NO union. Boeing has 2,000 engineers in Moscow Russia design center and soon a new center will be built in Kiev. Boeing engineering will be improved immensely by accessing employees from multiple colleges all around the world and in the future their will be NO union. It will take a little longer to move the manufacturing but it is moving and it will go wherever NON union labor can be found. Airbus is following the same model

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  50. Thelm

    I had a discussion with a boeing employee that works on the 747 line- This guy came from private industry. Here is the sad thing- this guy was saying the company OWES him. They OWE him a pension (though he has only been there for 5 years), they OWE him and his family a mostly paid for health plan. I brought up the point that isn’t that why they pay more then the private sector. His response “that has nothing to do with it !”

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  51. freejack

    RE: Young Gun @ 41

    Boeing machinists often feel offended. They feel besieged. All they know is they are at war with the Boeing company. They live in their clueless little world and don’t acknowledge or have any idea that non-union employees are a happy bunch. I have a cousin who is a machinist (clerk, actually) and is a bitter, brainwashed person like most of the older machinists. They do live in a different reality. Planet Boeing.

    Even when you talk to these machinist, they are so brainwashed, they have no idea they are in the minority at the company in numbers and perspective.

    Walking through their work areas, you see union propaganda posters showing Boeing management looking like vampires or demons. Looks like North Korea propaganda leaflets.

    It’s a miracle they approved the offer – and barely.

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