Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

60 responses to “Weekly Open Thread (2014-04-28)”

  1. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 31:

    13% per year from 2010 to 2014. What has been the annual rate of inflation over that period? How can the premium possibly be justified?

    Year Built:1984
    Last Sold:Jun 2010 for $428,000

    For Sale: $650,000

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/21311-SE-20th-St-Sammamish-WA-98075/48670860_zpid/

    Premium or discount? Again, I’m not going to comment on the current listing, but the prior listing was a short sale, and it was 2010. Back then you could pick up short sales at bargain prices because, repeat after me–banks are stupid.

    Basically it’s the same thing Eric did with his condo, although his purchase might have been an REO sale. Buy a property in a poor market through a means that generates the lowest percentage to FMV and when the market recovers you’ll profit!

    It might be an interesting experiment to go back to the SB posts from about that time and see what people were saying about buying.

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  2. Blake

    Hmmm… chicken and egg argument here… Either way: Housing is a huge chuck of the US economy and the US economy sucks.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/i-was-right–the-housing-recovery-was-a-sham–guardian-s-heidi-moore-191918931.html;_ylt=AwrBJR5UZF5TBG4A0XSTmYlQ
    -snip-
    Neil Irwin argues in the New York Times’ Upshot that the housing market is still stalling the economy. He points out that investment in residential property remains a smaller share of the overall economy than at any time since World War II, contributing less to growth than in past downturns, including the early 1980s when mortgage rates were 20% (compared to 4.5% currently).

    Irwin argues if more people were buying homes and building returned to its postwar average as a share of the economy, growth would jump to 4% and about 1.5 million more jobs would be created. He says the main factor holding housing back is demand: Fewer people can or want to start a household of their own.

    In Moore’s view, it’s the other way around: It’s the economy that’s slowing the housing market. Factors including stagnant wages, high unemployment and high household and student loan debt are reasons why people aren’t able to buy houses, says Moore. In other words, because the economy is stuck, the housing market is too.

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  3. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blake @ 2 – A third point of view could be a hangover effect from the bubble. That type of event clearly lessens demand.

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  4. softwarengineer

    Gut Feel and Ouja Boards Run Our Economy Predictions Now

    If SWE uses scientific demography examples showing its all going to get worse on our present Titanic Course “he’s a bad person”….after all, opposing clear documented scientific evidence is OK if you just say I’m against it, “I’m a good person”.

    Its like the minority against legal pot….no hard medical evidence on reduced lifespan and cancer….but I don’t smoke it, therefore I’m better than those who do. Ask the most prolific athelete in the world, Phelps, if his past bong use hamperred his “best in the world” olympic performance.

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  5. pfft

    this is the sound of the Senate staying in Democrats’ hands!

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obamacare-repeal-loses-support-in-republican-districts

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  6. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1 – In 2010 didn’t we smote the Libyans? If you look at the history going back to 2000, would one guess they took out an equity loan and things went south from there?

    Essentially Jan. 2001 – buys at $392,850.

    Now on the market for $650,000. Incidentally, that was the asking price in 2008 before things went south for the seller.

    So that is an average annual appreciation of 5.03%, if I have calculated correctly.

    The average annual inflation rate over the same period was around 2.4%.

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  7. softwarengineer

    Seattle is Different Than America

    National trends don’t apply to our stagnant [since 2008] 1.9M Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue total labor force. Like the following in today’s news:

    “…The National Employment Law Project reports that that low wage industries employ 1.85 million MORE workers now than at the start of the recession while mid-and higher-wage industries employ 1.83 million LESS….”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/corporate-profits-bigger-than-ever-so-companies-can-afford-to-raise-the-minimum-wage–henry-blodget-142907469.html

    Gee…..the national data is just like the Seattle area, a stagnant total labor force since 2008 too.

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  8. Blake

    http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2014/04/28/recovery-part-time-workers-replace-full-time-since-the-recession-bad-news-for-housing/
    >> “Yes, it is hard to have a middle-class housing recovery when part-time jobs are replacing full-time jobs at lower wages.”

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  9. softwarengineer

    RE: Blake @ 8
    Ohhhhh Blake

    You’re being too scientific, truthful and pragmatic. Don’t you know if you say anything is true without evidence, you can be the “good guy” too? People that base their predictions on “overly confident conjecture”, instead of “base facts” almost always get labeled the “optimist” or “good guy”.

    Remember the “Flat Worlders” in the 15th century who defied science and allegated the earth was flat…..the MSM church rewarded these saints for their “good guy” arrogance and their hatred of the astronomy, physics and math witchcrafts…..

    Seattle should be much better off outsourcing all their pragmatic thinking engineers to California….LOL

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  10. Blake

    SWE… I found this article on NC particularly interesting and thought you might as well. The comments are very good (NC readers tend to be quite well informed techies…)
    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/04/health-care-information-technology-danger-physicians-health.html
    – - here’s the first comment:
    mikkel April 29, 2014 at 4:38 am
    I am a programmer that has worked with research physicians. Properly designed and implemented IT could save thousands of lives and billions of dollars — if it was physician/nurse oriented with good programmers using best practices. I know of at least a half dozen use cases where the combination of EHR and ICU monitoring would revolutionize care.

    A colleague implemented a custom monitor display that cut the rounds in her unit from 2 hrs to 10 minutes and reduced mistakes by 90%. It enabled her team to quickly figure out who needed intervention on the metrics they knew were important. This is in an ICU with brain trauma where seconds count. She did it with the help of two undergraduate programmers and a technician — probably spending about $30k on development.

    She is now interested in how to link to EHRs to calculate stroke probabilities, which will allow her to triage proactively. However, this is impossible because the medical software market is a cartel meant to extract as much as it can while providing negative benefits to everyone except for insurance companies. I’ve heard stories of $150 million deals sold on fancy demos that then led to software which was completely broken but the administrators would not pursue damages.

    It’s so bad that it was a major factor in my decision to move out of the country. At a medical conference everyone kept saying that OZ/NZ (and much of Europe) has a shot of adopting these good practices while the US was beyond hope due to entrenched for-profit interests. So I left and have found things much better across the board.

    I wish that all the amazing health care specialists and programmers would give up on the US and contribute their skills to places that aren’t so politically dysfunctional; and that investors funding start ups would look outside the US instead of wasting their money.

    An untold number of the world’s brightest and tens if not hundreds of billions of research dollars (let alone the infrastructure dollars) is being wasted on this completely dysfunctional and sociopathic system and everyone on the inside knows it. The $1 T was seen as the last chance to change course but it looks like that hasn’t happened, so the opportunity will be lost more or less forever.

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  11. Blurtman

    RE: softwarengineer @ 9RE: Blake @ 8 – Just wondering what your personal income circumstances are. Better, worse or same as last year? Long term trend up or down?

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  12. softwarengineer

    RE: Blake @ 10

    Yes

    Medical billing [electronic] costs are about 30% of the retail costs of healthcare…..in other words this S/W Electronic Billing Monster we’ve created to control(?) costs is driving physicians out of business. The good old days of scribbled doctor memos and inexpensive highschool educated medical bill administration personnel are gone. You now need a 4 year business degree to do this same simple minded [if done the old fashion way] task.

    It makes the ACA shift to Medicaid a complete joke.

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  13. softwarengineer

    RE: Blurtman @ 11

    Blurtman

    My current personal wealth surge came to me not by foresight, hades no. It came to me by random Reno luck. How was I to know putting 10% of my income directly into the average combined funded [not individual stocks] American stock market would give me an equivalent “double income” last year from my “single income”?

    Did anyone else in my agency invest the same way? Hades no. I’m the highest paid person in the office because of random luck with no strong scientific prediction analogy backing it up…..my reason for investing that way was simple: where else are the rich gonna park their money? Real estate? Gold? LOL

    Sometimes the weak structure rationalization is the best we’ve got.

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  14. Blake

    RE: Blurtman @ 11
    I work for the Fed govt, so my wages have been frozen for 4 or 5 years…. Ooo, I got a 1% COLA recently! But with no kids or wife, I am doing fine… I bought a house on 3 1/2 acres in 2011 and the mortgage is such that I could take a job at 40% less and still make ends meet. I am bracing for more rough times ahead for our economy. Many many people have never recovered from the crash in ’08. Good thing Timothy Geithner was there to “foam the runways” for them… I mean the banks…
    From Barofsky’s book:
    “For a good chunk of our allotted meeting time, Elizabeth Warren grilled Geithner about HAMP, barraging him with questions about how the program was going to start helping home owners. In defense of the program, Geithner finally blurted out, ‘We estimate that they can handle ten million foreclosures, over time,’ referring to the banks. ‘This program will help foam the runway for them.’ “A lightbulb went on for me. Elizabeth had been challenging Geithner on how the program was going to help home owners, and he had responded by citing how it would help the banks.”
    Pathological monsters who claim to be “public servants”…

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  15. softwarengineer

    If You Were Evicted Because of Foreclosure

    Not-to-worry; the FHA is giving you a second chance…..fill out the loss of income history paperwork and see if you qualify for relief….

    https://homes.yahoo.com/news/the-fha-back-to-work-program–a-second-chance-for-homeowners-194837459.html

    Now we should be able to fill all the $400-500K Seattle homes with past non-performers. Risky you say…..maybe another horrifying bubble and bank collapse? Not-to-worry, the feds got you covered ;-)

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  16. Blurtman

    RE: Blake @ 14RE: softwarengineer @ 13 – I think you have gotta dance while the music is playing. You can always have the intellectual idea of a bubble, but it may be hard to see even when it is all around you. And if you are doing well financially, and in an environment where others are as well, that is all you may know experientially. And so these doom and gloom stories can’t hit home and after a while, fatigue sets in.

    But these days, there are lots of cheerleaders whose income depends on consumer optimism. And if you are a home owner, doesn’t it feel good to see the Zillow estimate going up? Would it be so hard to swallow the blue pill? Or was it the red one?

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  17. Kary L. Krismer

    The state AG released an email today which mentioned that Quality Loan Services agreed as part of a settlement to not conduct any foreclosures in March and four surrounding days.

    I haven’t been tracking foreclosures for a few years, so I don’t know how big they are now, but that could provide a blip in the foreclosure data.

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  18. Blurtman

    Yes, you should give me 11.8% more for my home than I paid one year ago, well, just because.

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/12-210th-Pl-NE-Sammamish-WA-98074/49088318_zpid/

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  19. softwarengineer

    RE: Blurtman @ 16

    Watch the Movie With Matt Damon and Jodie Foster, Elysian

    Its on DVD now…

    Its about how earth separated its rich and fortunate from the majority who are not. They separated themselves totally with a real estate “blue pill” complete with lavish forrests and lakes. Who needs a Middle Class, that is so out of style. Maybe they should have called the movie, “Sammamish” instead….LOL

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  20. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 18 – Again I cannot comment on the current listing, but I would suggest shifting your focus to properties which have already sold. Unless maybe you’re angling for a new job with the Seattle Times.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/realestate/2007/12/30/when-basket-weaving-is-too-difficult/

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  21. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 20 – Please do not mock my career ambitions, oh, booh hoo…

    But aren’t unrealistic pricing expectations suggestive of a, what’s that word, starts with a “B,” wait, don’t tell me,…..

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  22. pfft
  23. Blake

    (I posted this in the Health Care Open thread, but thought it was worth reposting here… no wonder in the last weeks before Obamacare was passed Big Pharma, WalMart and other large corporations poured millions of dollars into ads urging Congress to pass the POS legislation!)
    Nice job Barack… Turns out he is a socialist… a corporate socialist! Finding more ways for the public sector to subsidize the corporate sector and increase private profits!
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chart-kills-employer-sponsored-healthcare-125900397.html
    -snip- A new report by S&P Capital IQ shows exactly why companies can’t resist shifting the burden of providing health care to the feds. The report says:
    •By shifting insurance to the employee, the Affordable Care Act presents an opportunity for U.S. companies to radically redefine the role they play in the health care system.
    •The ACA could save S & P 500 companies nearly $700 billion through 2025, about 4 percent of those companies’ current market capitalization.
    •If all U.S. companies with 50 or more employees made the switch, the total savings to businesses could be as high as $3.25 trillion through 2025.
    •The shift benefits employers the most as the government and consumers take on a larger funding role.

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  24. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 22 – It’s different this time.

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  25. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blake @ 23 – It was obvious that Obamacare was going to help out drug companies and medical providers. It wasn’t so obvious that it would help out other companies too, but it’s not terribly surprising.

    BTW, this is probably part of the reason Obama has delayed much of Obamacare to after the midterms. Obamacare was so bad there was no way he was going to risk his own re-election on almost any of Obamacare being effective, but it turns out it’s even worse than imagined, and so now he doesn’t want Congress to be impacted during his last to lame duck years. Can you imagine how ineffective the most ineffective President in history would be with a Republican controlled Senate?

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  26. pfft

    By Blake @ 23:

    (I posted this in the Health Care Open thread, but thought it was worth reposting here… no wonder in the last weeks before Obamacare was passed Big Pharma, WalMart and other large corporations poured millions of dollars into ads urging Congress to pass the POS legislation!)
    Nice job Barack… Turns out he is a socialist… a corporate socialist! Finding more ways for the public sector to subsidize the corporate sector and increase private profits!
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/chart-kills-employer-sponsored-healthcare-125900397.html
    -snip- A new report by S&P Capital IQ shows exactly why companies can’t resist shifting the burden of providing health care to the feds. The report says:
    •By shifting insurance to the employee, the Affordable Care Act presents an opportunity for U.S. companies to radically redefine the role they play in the health care system.
    •The ACA could save S & P 500 companies nearly $700 billion through 2025, about 4 percent of those companies’ current market capitalization.
    •If all U.S. companies with 50 or more employees made the switch, the total savings to businesses could be as high as $3.25 trillion through 2025.
    •The shift benefits employers the most as the government and consumers take on a larger funding role.

    laughably wrong. I’ll give you guys time to figure out why.

    Are you really figuring this out now when Obamacare was passed years ago?

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  27. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 25:

    RE: Blake @ 23 – It was obvious that Obamacare was going to help out drug companies and medical providers. It wasn’t so obvious that it would help out other companies too, but it’s not terribly surprising.

    BTW, this is probably part of the reason Obama has delayed much of Obamacare to after the midterms. Obamacare was so bad there was no way he was going to risk his own re-election on almost any of Obamacare being effective, but it turns out it’s even worse than imagined, and so now he doesn’t want Congress to be impacted during his last to lame duck years. Can you imagine how ineffective the most ineffective President in history would be with a Republican controlled Senate?

    laughably wrong too! How can you say it’s ineffective when they more than met their enrollment goal.

    ” It was obvious that Obamacare was going to help out drug companies and medical providers.”

    Obama knew this so the law was written to tax drug companies and medical device companies and Obama STILL got criticized for increasing taxes on businesses. so you say it’s a giveaway and others say it’s a huge tax on medical device makes. LOL.

    If Obamacare is so bad kary make a prediction. Obama will be repealed by when?

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  28. pfft

    “Can you imagine how ineffective the most ineffective President in history would be with a Republican controlled Senate?”

    People have been trying to pass healthcare for decades…

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  29. Blake

    RE: pfft @ 26
    Huge giveaway to Big Pharma, private health insurers… and Fortune 500 corporations. But of course they are Obama’s constituents and the main funders of todays Democratic National Committee, Inc.

    I’ll wager this with you pfft: In 2015, will polls of those who signed up for Obamacare show them being pleased or displeased with their coverage? I’d wager that less than 50% of those WHO SIGNED UP will be happy with their new plans – - even subsidized as they are. And this leaves out all those who did not sign up or those who saw their premiums go up to subsidize the others. In net: Obamacare will be a millstone around the neck of the Democrats for years ahead. We’ll see how many Democrats running for office in 2014 and 2016 proudly run Obamacare ads eh? Nice job Barack…
    We’ll have a Seattle Bubblehead meetup in 2015 and if Obamacare is popular I’ll gladly buy the first round for everyone! How about you…?

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  30. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 27:

    laughably wrong too! How can you say it’s ineffective when they more than met their enrollment goal.

    How many times do we have to go over the same thing before it will sink into your little head? Enrollment on the government sites is only part of the number that needs to be known. If most of those were Medicaid and people who already had insurance, then it didn’t accomplish much. If others who had insurance drop out because of the increased price, then it caused harm.

    That is not so difficult to understand, unless you’re purposefully trying to be a troll.

    But in any case, enrollment is only part of the equation. In addition to having people sign up it also has to work, without causing harm. So far it seems like all it’s done is move the uninsured from being one group to being another group. That is not success.

    If Obamacare is so bad kary make a prediction. Obama will be repealed by when?

    The proper term is impeached, and Congress apparently has no stomach for that because he clearly could be impeached for purposefully killing American citizens without a court order.

    Assuming you meant Obamacare, I think it will be repealed when it collapses our healthcare system. Hard to say how long that will take, but it will be more than a year. Hopefully it won’t collapse the entire economy with it, but unfortunately that is a possibility.

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  31. Blake

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30
    Last I saw, the enrollment rates for the young healthy demographic was estimated at only about 28% of total, while the original goal (of the Obama Admin) was 40%… Likely to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

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  32. pfft

    By Blake @ 29:

    RE: pfft @ 26
    Huge giveaway to Big Pharma, private health insurers… and Fortune 500 corporations. But of course they are Obama’s constituents and the main funders of todays Democratic National Committee, Inc.

    I’ll wager this with you pfft: In 2015, will polls of those who signed up for Obamacare show them being pleased or displeased with their coverage? I’d wager that less than 50% of those WHO SIGNED UP will be happy with their new plans – - even subsidized as they are. And this leaves out all those who did not sign up or those who saw their premiums go up to subsidize the others. In net: Obamacare will be a millstone around the neck of the Democrats for years ahead. We’ll see how many Democrats running for office in 2014 and 2016 proudly run Obamacare ads eh? Nice job Barack…
    We’ll have a Seattle Bubblehead meetup in 2015 and if Obamacare is popular I’ll gladly buy the first round for everyone! How about you…?

    Obamacare is getting more popular even among Republicans. Democrats are slowly starting to realize they can run on Obamacare. Obamacare won. Deal with it!

    “Huge giveaway to Big Pharma, private health insurers… and Fortune 500 corporations.”

    If so than why hasn’t every corporation with more than 50 people dropped health insurance? The answer is employers would lose their tax breaks for covering their employees AND it would be a huge salary cut for their employees. Employees would be outraged and demand that they get a raise. That is why it’s not a huge giveaway to fortune 500 corporations and why corporations will not drop their healthcare plans onto Obamacare. Just a little common sense people.

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  33. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 30:

    By pfft @ 27:
    laughably wrong too! How can you say it’s ineffective when they more than met their enrollment goal.

    How many times do we have to go over the same thing before it will sink into your little head? Enrollment on the government sites is only part of the number that needs to be known. If most of those were Medicaid and people who already had insurance, then it didn’t accomplish much. If others who had insurance drop out because of the increased price, then it caused harm.

    That is not so difficult to understand, unless you’re purposefully trying to be a troll.

    But in any case, enrollment is only part of the equation. In addition to having people sign up it also has to work, without causing harm. So far it seems like all it’s done is move the uninsured from being one group to being another group. That is not success.

    If Obamacare is so bad kary make a prediction. Obama will be repealed by when?

    The proper term is impeached, and Congress apparently has no stomach for that because he clearly could be impeached for purposefully killing American citizens without a court order.

    Assuming you meant Obamacare, I think it will be repealed when it collapses our healthcare system. Hard to say how long that will take, but it will be more than a year. Hopefully it won’t collapse the entire economy with it, but unfortunately that is a possibility.

    Kary, study after study has been done about how many people who didn’t have health insurance before now have it. I’ve posted them more than a few times. Who is the troll now?

    http://www.vox.com/2014/5/1/5672104/report-most-obamacare-enrollees-were-previously-uninsured

    “So far it seems like all it’s done is move the uninsured from being one group to being another group. That is not success.”

    totally false. Please post your source(s). We just had this conversation the other day!

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  34. pfft

    ” I think it will be repealed when it collapses our healthcare system.”

    funniest thing I’ve read all week.

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  35. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 33 – Just over 8M signups, of which just over 5M were medicaid and of which a third were already insured. That doesn’t leave many new people who weren’t Medicaid.

    And I know you’ve forgotten, but Congress could have expanded Medicaid without totally messing up the entire private health system. One was in no way dependent on the other.

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  36. Blurtman

    RE: Blake @ 23 – Under single payer, or Medicare for everyone, couldn’t one make a similar argument, that employers would shift providing health care to the Feds? And as the Repubs would vote agains Medicare and Medicaid using their group buying power to negotiate lower drug prices, which is something that private industry does all the time, single payer would likely be viewed as a boondoggle to big pharma.

    Sebelius on the John Stewart show said that the Obama administration had to give up on single payer as the Repubs would have none of it. She referenced the uproar over Obamacare as proof.

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  37. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 35:

    RE: pfft @ 33 – Just over 8M signups, of which just over 5M were medicaid and of which a third were already insured. That doesn’t leave many new people who weren’t Medicaid.

    And I know you’ve forgotten, but Congress could have expanded Medicaid without totally messing up the entire private health system. One was in no way dependent on the other.

    Obamacare is far more than expanding medicaid.

    you don’t even have your numbers right. an estimated 14-23 million people have signed up.

    http://acasignups.net/

    6 million more people would be signed up if Republicans would expand medicaid.

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/02/11/3279551/urban-institute-medicaid-expansion/

    Notice how when I make claims I actually have links and sources? that is how it’s done people.

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  38. pfft

    By Blake @ 31:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30 to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

    LOL. false. Do you know this or are you just hoping? It’s not like huge rate hikes weren’t happening before.

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  39. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 36:

    Sebelius on the John [sic] Stewart show said that the Obama administration had to give up on single payer as the Repubs would have none of it. She referenced the uproar over Obamacare as proof.

    Did Jon ask Sebelius how many Republicans voted for Obamacare? After she answered that question, did he then point out that she’s an F’n liar?

    But on the other hand, we could ask for the opinion of the only person who has proven themselves more incompetent than Obama. That sounds like a good idea! And after that we can ask pfft!

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  40. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 37:

    By Blake @ 31:
    RE: to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

    LOL. false. Do you know this or are you just hoping? It’s not like huge rate hikes weren’t happening before.

    Add insurance to another topic pfft doesn’t have the slightest clue about.

    But hey, at least we finally have an issue where pfft and Obama disagree!

    I would also note that pfft is as to insurance rates as the former president of Iran is to the holocaust. Pfft denies that insurance rates have already skyrocketed. He’s an insurance rate denier.

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  41. whatsmyname
  42. Blurtman

    RE: whatsmyname @ 41 – Incredible parody. I almost thought it was true.

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  43. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35

    Medicaid is Something They Would Have Gotten Anyway Without ACA

    If they had medical treatment, they would have gotten Medicaid anyway and filled out the paperwork when they were receiving actual healthcare. ACA hasn’t improved things, its just got the paperwork filled out earlier. I got this information from the President of the heathcare agency I do volunteer work for…

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  44. softwarengineer

    RE: whatsmyname @ 41

    Open Your Link

    Thst news story was soooooo “Flat Earther” and scientifically brainless. 67% want to buy a home, when 67% already bought a home :-)

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  45. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 39:

    By Blurtman @ 36:
    Sebelius on the John [sic] Stewart show said that the Obama administration had to give up on single payer as the Repubs would have none of it. She referenced the uproar over Obamacare as proof.

    Did Jon ask Sebelius how many Republicans voted for Obamacare? After she answered that question, did he then point out that she’s an F’n liar?

    what?

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  46. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 40:

    By pfft @ 37:
    By Blake @ 31:
    RE: to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

    LOL. false. Do you know this or are you just hoping? It’s not like huge rate hikes weren’t happening before.

    Add insurance to another topic pfft doesn’t have the slightest clue about.

    But hey, at least we finally have an issue where pfft and Obama disagree!

    I would also note that pfft is as to insurance rates as the former president of Iran is to the holocaust. Pfft denies that insurance rates have already skyrocketed. He’s an insurance rate denier.

    they haven’t. show me where they have skyrocketed?

    premiums only went up 4%.
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/20/news/economy/health-insurance-premiums/

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  47. pfft

    By softwarengineer @ 43:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35

    Medicaid is Something They Would Have Gotten Anyway Without ACA

    If they had medical treatment, they would have gotten Medicaid anyway and filled out the paperwork when they were receiving actual healthcare. ACA hasn’t improved things, its just got the paperwork filled out earlier.

    this is false. because people had to sign up for insurance many more signed up for insurance than they would have because of the mandate. now people can get preventative care and other services. this is a good thing. instead of using the ER many will start going to the doctor they need before it’s too late.

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  48. whatsmyname

    RE: softwarengineer @ 44
    It’s a poll, not a news story.

    The 67% includes anyone who plans to buy “in the future”. That would reasonably include current homeowners who plan to someday move up, move down, or maybe move to a different town.

    The important number is the 32% who want to purchase in the next two years. The local number is probably less due to the large number of people who have been buying in the last two years. But it should be an interesting two years, nonetheless.

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  49. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 45:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 39:
    By Blurtman @ 36:
    Sebelius on the John [sic] Stewart show said that the Obama administration had to give up on single payer as the Repubs would have none of it. She referenced the uproar over Obamacare as proof.

    Did Jon ask Sebelius how many Republicans voted for Obamacare? After she answered that question, did he then point out that she’s an F’n liar?

    what?

    Are you really that dense. Democrats passed Obamacare, not Republicans. What Republicans wanted was irrelevant because as the Democrats pointed out “We won the election.” That’s Obama’s idea of creating a less partisan Washington DC. Totally piss off one party.

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  50. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 46:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 40:
    By pfft @ 37:
    By Blake @ 31:
    RE: to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

    LOL. false. Do you know this or are you just hoping? It’s not like huge rate hikes weren’t happening before.

    Add insurance to another topic pfft doesn’t have the slightest clue about.

    But hey, at least we finally have an issue where pfft and Obama disagree!

    I would also note that pfft is as to insurance rates as the former president of Iran is to the holocaust. Pfft denies that insurance rates have already skyrocketed. He’s an insurance rate denier.

    they haven’t. show me where they have skyrocketed?

    premiums only went up 4%.
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/20/news/economy/health-insurance-premiums/

    We’ve addressed that plenty of times. Many people’s premiums, including my own, went up close to 100%. Democrats lie about that by claiming the existing policies were substandard. You’ve bought into their BS, or else you really just don’t care.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  51. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 47:

    By softwarengineer @ 43:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35

    Medicaid is Something They Would Have Gotten Anyway Without ACA

    If they had medical treatment, they would have gotten Medicaid anyway and filled out the paperwork when they were receiving actual healthcare. ACA hasn’t improved things, its just got the paperwork filled out earlier.

    this is false. because people had to sign up for insurance many more signed up for insurance than they would have because of the mandate. now people can get preventative care and other services. this is a good thing. instead of using the ER many will start going to the doctor they need before it’s too late.

    You are completely ignorant. The changes to Medicaid were not dependent on the passage of the insurance parts of Obamacare. One did not fund the other. They could have passed the Medicaid part without the rest. Is that so difficult to understand? It’s been explained before.

    So that I can have some understanding of your basic education and intelligence, please answer the following questions and I will adjust what I write accordingly based on how many you can answer.

    1 +1 =
    1 +2 =
    2 + 2 =
    2 + 3 =

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  52. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49 – I understand your point but that doesn’t mean Sebelius was lying. Perhaps Obama didn’t anticipate that Republicans would vote in lock step against ACA, and perhaps he suspected, quite correctly, that they would vote lock step against single payer.

    Of course there is the issue of the red dog Democrats, who also would have voted against single payer. Perhaps that is what you were alluding to.

    “With every other Democrat now in favor and every other Republican now overtly opposed, the White House and Reid moved on to addressing Senator Nelson’s concerns in order to win filibuster-proof support for the bill;[97] they had by this point concluded “it was a waste of time dealing with [Snowe]“[98] because, after her vote for the draft bill in the Finance Committee, Snowe had come under intense pressure from the Republican Senate leadership who opposed the ACA.[99] After a final 13-hour negotiation, Nelson’s support for the bill was won after two concessions: a compromise on abortion, modifying the language of the bill “to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion within their own insurance exchanges”, which would require consumers to pay for the procedure out-of-pocket if the state so decided; and an amendment to offer a higher rate of Medicaid reimbursement for Nebraska.[71][100] The latter half of the compromise was derisively called the “Cornhusker Kickback”[101] and was later repealed by the subsequent reconciliation amendment bill.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

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  53. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 52 – I wasn’t referencing losing Democratic support. That would have been a better argument for Sebelius to make, because that wouldn’t have been a bald face lie.

    That not a single Republican would support the PoS legislation called Obamacare is understandable. But it is sort of sad, if true, that not a single Republican would support single payer. Just goes to show how messed up our system is. Netflix should call their show House of Morons.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  54. Blurtman

    And this just in: Folks exiting the labor force are to be blamed for the lack of jobs.

    “A shrinking workforce saps the U.S. of the manpower needed to boost the expansion to a higher level, keeping the world’s largest economy merely plodding along.”

    - A unique and bass ackwards way of looking at things. So folks choosing not to work are creating less jobs, is that it? I had apparently erroneously concluded that less jobs caused folks to give up looking. Oops.

    ““It looks like you had a big increase in the people who went from unemployed to not in the labor force, which is kind of what you’d expect if the end of extended employment benefits caused people to ease out of the job market,” said JPMorgan’s Feroli.”

    - Instantly folks who had exited the labor force had been transformed into folks who had exited the labor force. The expiration of extended unemployment benefits caused this remarkable transformation.

    This is what happens when dimwitted and underachieving Ivy Leaguers, thrust into positions for which they have no talent or qualifications, attempt to utilize inadequate analytical abilities to explain the obvious. Uphold the dogma at all costs!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-03/workforce-participation-at-36-year-low-as-jobs-climb.html

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  55. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 53 – Yes, single payer would have failed because of unanimous Republican opposition, but also opposition by enough Democrats.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  56. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 54 – That is why I don’t usually click on Bloomberg links. I’d more likely get useful information from the National Enquirer. I subscribe to the San Francisco Chronicle and they have a “Bloomberg Briefing” article each day in their business section. I just skip past it. Worth than useless because you might remember something they said.

    Love the first sentence: “Even the strongest job growth in two years isn’t enough to entice more people into the labor force, one of the biggest conundrums of the U.S. economic expansion.” Yep, I’m shocked that job growth that doesn’t keep pace with population growth doesn’t increase the percentage of people working. /sarc

    The article went downhill from there, which for most people would be hard to do.

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  57. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 49:

    By pfft @ 45:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 39:
    By Blurtman @ 36:
    Sebelius on the John [sic] Stewart show said that the Obama administration had to give up on single payer as the Repubs would have none of it. She referenced the uproar over Obamacare as proof.

    Did Jon ask Sebelius how many Republicans voted for Obamacare? After she answered that question, did he then point out that she’s an F’n liar?

    what?

    Are you really that dense. Democrats passed Obamacare, not Republicans. What Republicans wanted was irrelevant because as the Democrats pointed out “We won the election.” That’s Obama’s idea of creating a less partisan Washington DC. Totally piss off one party.

    right it’s obama’s fault. he made the republicans totally obstruct his agenda from day 1 of his administration.

    Remember when Obama passed a stimulus that had repubilcan “sweeteners” and still no republican voted for yet they all wrote letters begging for money?

    Remember when Obama negotiated for months with centrist Republicans and still no Republican voted for a healthcare bill that was Republican in origin? I do and I will keep telling you about it!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  58. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 50:

    By pfft @ 46:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 40:
    By pfft @ 37:
    By Blake @ 31:
    RE: to see huge rate hikes next year since the pool of subscribers is older and sicker.

    LOL. false. Do you know this or are you just hoping? It’s not like huge rate hikes weren’t happening before.

    Add insurance to another topic pfft doesn’t have the slightest clue about.

    But hey, at least we finally have an issue where pfft and Obama disagree!

    I would also note that pfft is as to insurance rates as the former president of Iran is to the holocaust. Pfft denies that insurance rates have already skyrocketed. He’s an insurance rate denier.

    they haven’t. show me where they have skyrocketed?

    premiums only went up 4%.
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/20/news/economy/health-insurance-premiums/

    We’ve addressed that plenty of times. Many people’s premiums, including my own, went up close to 100%. Democrats lie about that by claiming the existing policies were substandard. You’ve bought into their BS, or else you really just don’t care.

    many people’s premiums did not go up that much or premiums would have risen a lot higher than 4%. there is junk insurance policies. you may not believe it but there are.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  59. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 51:

    By pfft @ 47:
    By softwarengineer @ 43:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35

    Medicaid is Something They Would Have Gotten Anyway Without ACA

    If they had medical treatment, they would have gotten Medicaid anyway and filled out the paperwork when they were receiving actual healthcare. ACA hasn’t improved things, its just got the paperwork filled out earlier.

    this is false. because people had to sign up for insurance many more signed up for insurance than they would have because of the mandate. now people can get preventative care and other services. this is a good thing. instead of using the ER many will start going to the doctor they need before it’s too late.

    You are completely ignorant. The changes to Medicaid were not dependent on the passage of the insurance parts of Obamacare. One did not fund the other. They could have passed the Medicaid part without the rest. Is that so difficult to understand? It’s been explained before.

    you obviously don’t understand obamcare. in order to have everyone covered you have to expand medicare because many people won’t be able to purchase insurance on their own. you can’t do pre-existing conditions without the insurance mandate only some can’t pay so you need to expand medicaid too!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  60. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 58 – There were junk insurance policies, but mine was not that. The Washington State Insurance Commissioner did not allow Regence to sell junk policies.

    You’ve just fallen for Democratic party lies that are part of their effort to cover up the huge mistake called Obamacare.

    Why do you think that employers in other states were renewing their policies early?

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