Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

49 responses to “Weekly Open Thread (2014-05-12)”

  1. Kary L. Krismer

    This is news from a few weeks ago, but it still bothers me. Nationwide some 20% of kids don’t get a high school degree, but the news treats that like it’s good news because we’re slowly creeping in the right direction.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/high-school-graduation-rates-at-historic-high/2014/04/28/84eb0122-cee0-11e3-937f-d3026234b51c_story.html

    To me that’s a huge percentage and huge number of people.

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  2. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1

    What Seattle’s Public Schools aren’t Telling Us

    Its MUCH WORSE than that Kary….the lack of Math and Science replaced [IMO] by training English as a 2nd language on the taxpayer dime made Phoenix Academy’s Highschool graduation rate below 50% in 2007….I got the information from the office workers not the school board when I was ordering a cap and gown for my daughter. They lie about HORRIFYINGLY LOW graduation rates by including GEDs the dropouts get after they leave the public schools….

    Green River Community College has a COMPASS test in Math you need to pass to take college courses….the average student has a 9th grade apititude and must redo highschool at the CC. The associate professors at Green River in Math are HORRIFIED too.

    In my day, a GED [its about a 9th grade level education BTW] was only needed for destitute drug abusers and prison inmates…..we could afford study halls to get 90-95% graduation levels back then. There’s no money for that anymore, GEDs are a main graduation tool for our subpar highschools today and they add them into their cooked books graduation rates.

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  3. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: softwarengineer @ 2 – Well, connecting up threads, that would explain why so many people think a $15 minimum wage is a good idea. ;-)

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  4. pfft

    Early data suggests Obamacare premiums aren’t skyrocketing
    http://www.vox.com/2014/5/12/5709544/early-data-suggests-obamacare-premiums-arent-skyrocketing

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  5. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 3:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 2 – Well, connecting up threads, that would explain why so many people think a $15 minimum wage is a good idea. ;-)

    it is a good idea! chances are people in your income bracket will get a raise too.

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  6. softwarengineer

    RE: pfft @ 4

    When You Pay $500K for a $100K Shack in the Seattle Area

    Chances are, home prices won’t go up much more either.

    Same with health care, the hospitals [many newly built on our property taxpayer dime] are like 30% filled…..even dentists are offerring $2K coupons for the old priced $5-10K implants as people stop eating, buying gas, going to the doctor, etc, etc….

    No one can afford the co-payments and deductibles, even with over priced [albeit stable priced as you allege] healthcare insurance. Medicaid [most of the ACA]/Medicare pays like 30% of the healthcare costs…..that should pay to process medical billing, none left for doctors or nurses salaries. No wonder a lion’s share of the medical facilities won’t accept just Medicaid/Medicare without private insurance too and many doctors are just retiring early to avoid bankruptcies.

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  7. Blake

    RE: softwarengineer @ 2
    Good points… an 80% high school grad rate doesn’t mean much to me because so many of those graduating are functionally illiterate! They have been dumbing down the curriculum for years… When my father’s company decided to relocate down to South Carolina from New York and Ohio 20+ years ago he found that he could no longer hire high school graduates for many of their positions… and it was even worse when my brother’s company relocated to South Carolina 12 years ago. Schools here in Washington are pretty bad too. Several friends moved here from Wisconsin and Iowa and their kids were basically 2 grades ahead of the kids here. But even in the upper midwest is not great… I was teaching and grading college papers in the late 80s and barely half the students could compose proper sentences… very sad. Many of my friends got their PhDs and went to work in Texas, Florida, and Alabama and came back to visit and tell me how much worse it was there… you can’t imagine… “Professor, It sounds like you are teaching socialism! A: “No, it’s actually called the Bill of Rights.” I have several friends who have taught incoming freshman for 30+ years and they say uniformly that the kids are much more ignorant, lazy, and terribly immature.

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  8. Blurtman

    In the USA, you can be a functional illiterate and become president.

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  9. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blake @ 7 – Wow, this thread is making me feel even worse. Not only are there about 20% (likely an understated number)of the people who don’t have a degree. But now you’re saying many of them locally may be as poorly educated as in South Carolina?

    I’m sure all these under-educated and and poorly educated people are going to readily find jobs at $15.00 and hour. /sarc

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  10. Jillayne Schlicke

    You do not need a high school diploma to become a licensed loan originator. You simply need to take the 20 hour pre-licensing class (and anything state-specific) and pass a 100-125 question exam. The test is written at a 9th grade level.

    I have met functional illiterates who had been originating residential mortgage loans for years with people nearby enabling them—doing their reading and writing for them. They were not able to pass the test and moved over to—-a depository bank, where a test and license are not required.

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  11. softwarengineer

    RE: Blake @ 7
    And to Add Insult to Injury

    In my highschool days in the Seattle area, us Boomers numbered the same student numbers as today….albeit we graduated 90-95% without GEDs and with HALF the public school staff size too.

    Whose fault is today’s subpar schools? The students with high hopes [LOL] to maybe land a $10/hr job if they go to college…..or the teachers teaching them?

    IMO, its the lack of hope the Millenials have today, and yes, they resent those of us hogging the good jobs with retirements and paid healthcare.

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  12. Blurtman

    Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings

    http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/

    Sasha Obama to head up Goldman Sachs.

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  13. Blake

    By Blurtman @ 12:

    Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings

    http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/

    Sasha Obama to head up Goldman Sachs.

    Blurtman… you forgot to note that Burisma is the Ukraine’s largest gas producer, but…
    “Hunter Biden is a private citizen and a lawyer. The Vice President does not endorse any particular company and has no involvement with this company,” Barkoff said. “For any additional questions, I refer you to Hunter’s office.”
    http://www.businessinsider.com/hunter-biden-joes-son-ukraine-gas-company-burisma-holdings-2014-5
    … nothing to see here, move along!

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  14. softwarengineer

    RE: Blake @ 13

    Speaking of Ukraine

    I’m really not sure which side of that political argument is correct….perhaps they’re both wrong?

    I will say one thing for sure, after Reagan knocked down the E. German wall and the Cold war ended….leading to Clinton’s NWO WTO support…there were losers and there were winners.

    The Losers:

    America: the Middle Class got socked in the wage stomache.
    Russia (Soviet Union): the country got cut to pieces, including Ukraine.

    The Winners:

    China: They even stole Mexico’s NAFTA jobs and the subsequent migration by Mexico to America to steal our jobs.
    Japan: They’ve stole our automotive engineering base out from under us.
    S. Korea: Ditto
    Gemany: Ditto

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  15. Blurtman

    RE: Blake @ 13 – And Hunter Biden is a financial fraud criminal, too. And his experience with natural gas is,….., zero.

    Please, people, do not vote for candidates from either party, they are all corrupt.

    Paradigm Global, the Bidens and allegedly fraudulent hedge funds – a summary

    http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2009/05/paradigm-global-bidens-and-allegedly.html

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  16. Kary L. Krismer

    I love this. We’ve been building roads at an accelerated rate for five years, but it’s going to be a crisis if that stops? The “Highway Cliff!” Scary. I’d hate to think we’re we’d have been but for all that road building.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/highway-trust-fund-infrastructure-106217.html

    Clearly Congress needs to get it’s act together, but the hype is just as annoying as the politicians.

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  17. Blake

    What a frickin’ disaster… And Obama has done long term damage to the Democratic Party and is paving the way for huge Republican victories in 2014 and 2016 and a regime even more extreme right than GW Bush! Nice job Barack…

    Big Increases in Obamacare Premiums and Deductibles Coming in November
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/big-increases-obamacare-premiums-deductibles-100000679.html

    The Obama administration postponed a portion of the employer mandate in the Affordable Care Act in order to avoid paying the political consequences of a market disruption in the group insurance sector. If new premium pricing proposals from insurer filings in the states of Virginia and Washington come to pass, the White House may have no way out of accountability for their health-care reform folly.

    When Obamacare first rolled out last fall, the failure of the federal and state exchanges were only the first signs of disaster. Premiums spiked upward in both the individual and group markets, and insurers raised deductibles and narrowed provider networks to save themselves money. Millions of people lost their existing insurance plans in the individual market, and many ended up in plans that either didn’t fit or cost far more than they spent in the past.

    The law’s supporters claim that the higher prices result from better coverage, but that depends on one’s perspective. The main point of Obamacare was to provide insurance to the uninsured, but the “enrollment” numbers showed that precious few of those actually gained coverage. The White House announcement of 8 million enrollees turned out to be more like 6.65 million when discounting those who hadn’t paid their first premium, just barely above the estimated 5-6 million who lost their existing plans after the coverage mandates were imposed.

    The numbers get worse when looking at how many of these enrollees were previously uninsured. Earlier estimates put that number at around a third, but a new study from the McKinsey Center for US Health System Reform pegs the number lower at 26 percent. When filtering out those who have paid their premium, the number drops to 22 percent of the administration’s claimed enrollees, or about 1.7 million people.

    Most of the individual-market enrollments were simply churn created by the market disruption of Obamacare itself. Those enrollments barely made a dent in the claimed numbers of the uninsured, estimates of which range between 30-40 million.

    Now that insurers have seen the composition of their new risk pools under Obamacare, they have to calculate their new pricing levels for state and federal regulators. The pricing jump for 2014 was more speculative, based on the presumed demographic composition of incoming enrollees. The pricing proposals from Virginia and Washington indicate that the new enrollments made the risk pools riskier than first thought.

    Rate-proposal filings in the state of Washington show the four largest insurers proposing average increases across their plans ranging from 8.1 percent to 11.2 percent in a single year.

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  18. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blake @ 17 – It’s already happened. My wife and I are now paying almost $200 a month more per person compared to last year, but when something happens we’ll have to pay $1,500 more before the insurance company pays a dime.

    Employers in other states were renewing early to avoid the new policies for one additional year. Washington state didn’t allow that because our Insurance Commissioner has drank the Obamacare koolaid.

    But don’t blame all of what happens on Obamacare. The party not in power traditionally does well in mid-term elections, and Obama’s popularity is rather low for reasons that have nothing at all to do with Obamacare.

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  19. pfft

    The parties are EXACTLY the same. I don’t really know much about politics but that sounds true and it makes me feel good when I say it.

    Marco Rubio Defends His Climate Denialism By Claiming He Knows The Science About Abortion
    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/05/15/3438179/marco-rubio-abortion-climate-science/

    Marco Rubio can’t name one source for his claims climate scientists are wrong about climate science
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/13/1299079/-Marco-Rubio-can-t-name-one-source-for-his-claims-climate-scientists-are-wrong-about-climate-science

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  20. Blake

    A friend sent me this article from down under and asked what was being said about this in Seattle…
    http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/05/11/is-an-ideological-agenda-destroying-the-future-of-boeing/
    The most perplexing thing about Boeing for those watching its affairs from the ‘outer darkness’ of the rest of the world is the intensity of the ideological hatred from its management for its Washington state based workforce.

    This is not a story about Boeing versus Airbus at any level. It’s more about the view in management schools that an unhappy, insecure and more anxious society is better for capital than one that is happy, cooperative and mutually reliant on common objectives and fostering cultures of excellence and innovation.

    The core of this hack’s concern, as a half American who nearly ended up working for Boeing almost 50 years ago, is that I have seen America become a more unhappy, more poverty stricken and more unequal land than back then. It doesn’t value scientific leadership nor curiosity as much as it once did, indeed all that seems to matter anymore is short term stock valuations.

    And also:
    http://www.tomhull.com/blog/archives/2141-Cutting-Corners-at-Boeing.html?PHPSESSID=c3c8ce9dc582fcf790834d37e3eae046
    So the only way Boeing can make up for the cheaper workers they hire in South Carolina is to hire more expensive contractors to do their work, or return that work to the higher wage workers back in Washington that they’ve been trying to get away from. Like I said above, as bad as these problems are already for assembly workers, they’ll get orders of magnitude worse with engineers. One of the principles drilled into every engineer is the importance of getting it right the first time. That’s evidently not a trait that Boeing expects in its management.
    … penny wise, pound foolish.

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  21. Blake

    By pfft @ 19:

    The parties are EXACTLY the same.

    No, one party wants to repeal the New Deal… the other wants to repeal the Enlightenment!

    Obama is to the right of Nixon and Eisenhower… and the Republicans are off the scale! Yet, these crazy Republicans are poised to regain a majority in the Senate and has a good chance to take the White House in 2016 largely due to Obama’s “signature piece of legislation” which was written by a health insurance industry VP, based upon ideas first put forward by Republicans, and then rammed down the throats of liberals with the Obamabots yelling “If you don’t support this you will hurt Obama and the Democrats!!”

    (I don’t know how many times my Obama-loving friends, family members and others told me to shut-the-f*ck-up about my criticism of Obama and this piece of sh*t legislation… Sorry, but I am pissed off and won’t shut up about this f’ing disaster…)

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  22. Blake

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 18:

    RE: Blake @ 17 – But don’t blame all of what happens on Obamacare. The party not in power traditionally does well in mid-term elections, and Obama’s popularity is rather low for reasons that have nothing at all to do with Obamacare.

    Agree… the economy is in bad shape with 80% of Americans treading water or sinking deeper and our government in thrall to the oligarchs. Sadly, I see little room for optimism at this time, but perhaps things have to get much worse before we see real change. Very little of this affects me and my immediate family and friends (who are doing quite well), but I take a bus each morning and walk through the city and can’t help but feel sorry for the people I see scrambling to make ends meet and just get by. And it’s likely to get much more difficult in the years ahead…

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  23. pfft

    By Blake @ 21:

    By pfft @ 19:
    The parties are EXACTLY the same.

    No, one party wants to repeal the New Deal… the other wants to repeal the Enlightenment!

    Obama is to the right of Nixon and Eisenhower… and the Republicans are off the scale! Yet, these crazy Republicans are poised to regain a majority in the Senate and has a good chance to take the White House in 2016 largely due to Obama’s “signature piece of legislation” which was written by a health insurance industry VP, based upon ideas first put forward by Republicans, and then rammed down the throats of liberals with the Obamabots yelling “If you don’t support this you will hurt Obama and the Democrats!!”

    (I don’t know how many times my Obama-loving friends, family members and others told me to shut-the-f*ck-up about my criticism of Obama and this piece of sh*t legislation… Sorry, but I am pissed off and won’t shut up about this f’ing disaster…)

    “No, one party wants to repeal the New Deal… the other wants to repeal the Enlightenment!”

    democrats want to repeal the new deal? news to me.

    Obamacare is not a disaster. People have been trying to pass (mostly)univiersal healthcare for decades. obama finally did it. single-payer would have been better and obama should have tried harder to get it but this is a big deal. tens of millions will be covered. I don’t know how you could say it’s a disaster. It isn’t a disaster for people who didn’t have insurance or who had pre-existing conditions.

    “Yet, these crazy Republicans are poised to regain a majority in the Senate and has a good chance to take the White House in 2016″

    As of right now Republicans have an ok chance in taking the Senate but have almost no change of winning in 2016…

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  24. wreckingbull

    RE: pfft @ 23 – Interesting that you find double digit annual cost increases in our state to be a win for Obamacare. If you are arguing that he had to pass something, just to say he did, he would have been much better off limiting the damage and expanding Medicaid only.

    I’ll ask you again, which plan did you purchase on the exchange? How does it compare to what you had before?

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  25. pfft

    By wreckingbull @ 24:

    RE: pfft @ 23 – Interesting that you find double digit annual cost increases in our state to be a win for Obamacare. If you are arguing that he had to pass something, just to say he did, he would have been much better off limiting the damage and expanding Medicaid only.

    as I’ve said before. Obamacare is much more than just expanding health insurance. I don’t know why I keep having to make that point so many years after the bill was signed. many of you simply don’t understand Obamacare. Simply expanding medicaid wouldn’t have cut it.

    “he would have been much better off limiting the damage and expanding Medicaid only.”

    what damage? over ten million people getting healthcare? my guess is you already had healthcare so that is why you are so cavalier towards Obamacare.

    “interesting that you find double digit annual cost increases in our state to be a win for Obamacare”

    link please. let’s say this is true. isn’t it worth it to to save hundreds of thousands of lives over the next decade?

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  26. pfft

    the comments policy of this place is lame. are we 12?

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  27. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blake @ 22:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 18:
    RE: Blake @ 17 – But don’t blame all of what happens on Obamacare. The party not in power traditionally does well in mid-term elections, and Obama’s popularity is rather low for reasons that have nothing at all to do with Obamacare.

    Agree… the economy is in bad shape with 80% of Americans treading water or sinking deeper and our government in thrall to the oligarchs. Sadly, I see little room for optimism at this time, but perhaps things have to get much worse before we see real change. Very little of this affects me and my immediate family and friends (who are doing quite well), but I take a bus each morning and walk through the city and can’t help but feel sorry for the people I see scrambling to make ends meet and just get by. And it’s likely to get much more difficult in the years ahead…

    I see little reason for optimism too, for the first time in my life. Even during the end of 2008 beginning of 2009 I saw some reason for optimism, but not now.

    But to ease your mind a bit and correct some of pfft’s nonsense, the claim was never made that every Republican was just like every Democrat. Far from it. The claim made was that the Democratic party is not that different from the Republican party. Yes the members of each party will make extremist claims like the ones pfft points to above. Those are to rally the base and raise cash. But overall you don’t see a huge change in policy when the country changes political leadership. We didn’t see that change in 2006 when the Democrats won, and we didn’t see that change in 2008 when they took over all three houses. We won’t see that change if the Republicans win both houses in 2014 or if they win both houses in 2016 and the presidency. The two parties are about one thing: Maintaining the two parties. They are like the AL and NL in MLB. Different, but not that different.

    So don’t worry that Obamacare will cause more Republicans to win in 2014. Democrats winning in 2006 didn’t cause the end of the Iraq war–their major campaign theme. And the country’s economic policy hardly budged when Obama took over from President Bush. Sure it will be harder for Obama to get anything done with more Republicans, but Obama can’t get anything done under any circumstances, so that change in Congress is hardly a legitimate reason for concern.

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  28. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 25:

    By wreckingbull @ 24:
    RE: pfft @ 23 – Interesting that you find double digit annual cost increases in our state to be a win for Obamacare. If you are arguing that he had to pass something, just to say he did, he would have been much better off limiting the damage and expanding Medicaid only.

    as I’ve said before. Obamacare is much more than just expanding health insurance. I don’t know why I keep having to make that point so many years after the bill was signed.

    And I don’t know why we have to keep explaining to you that the way it was didn’t have to be the way it had to be.

    It would be like if Washington passed a transportation bill that expanded freeways and built 3 new ferries. If someone argued against the ferries you’d respond by saying that the bill was about building freeways and ferries. That wouldn’t mean building the ferries was a good idea even if the freeways were desperately needed.

    (If that went over your head, the ferries are Obamacare health insurance provisions and the freeways are the Obamacare Medicaid provisions. It’s an analogy.)

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  29. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:

    By pfft @ 25:
    By wreckingbull @ 24:
    RE: pfft @ 23 – Interesting that you find double digit annual cost increases in our state to be a win for Obamacare. If you are arguing that he had to pass something, just to say he did, he would have been much better off limiting the damage and expanding Medicaid only.

    as I’ve said before. Obamacare is much more than just expanding health insurance. I don’t know why I keep having to make that point so many years after the bill was signed.

    And I don’t know why we have to keep explaining to you that the way it was didn’t have to be the way it had to be.

    It would be like if Washington passed a transportation bill that expanded freeways and built 3 new ferries. If someone argued against the ferries you’d respond by saying that the bill was about building freeways and ferries. That wouldn’t mean building the ferries was a good idea even if the freeways were desperately needed.

    (If that went over your head, the ferries are Obamacare health insurance provisions and the freeways are the Obamacare Medicaid provisions. It’s an analogy.)

    a transportation bill would cover ferries because they are transport…

    this isn’t my opinion. this is the basic structure of the bill. we want to cover pre-existing conditions. the only way to do that is with mandates. w/o mandates there would be spiraling cost. not everyone can pay so there are subsidies and mediciad expansion. isn’t that hard to figure out.

    a transportation bill could cover roads, bridges, ferries, bike paths gondolas and airports.

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  30. Kary L. Krismer

    From foreclosure thread:

    By softwarengineer @ 3:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2

    SFH Neighborhood, with Condo Style Group Locked Mail Boxes

    $90K to repave cracked roads, $90K to replace 2″ broken water pipes [illegally accepted by building inspector(s), they needed to be 4″] throughout, and money to replace park playground is most of the expenses.

    I’m not seeing how the bank would get a lien in the situation you described. Your HOA would get a lien.

    Having a SFR HOA own the roads is somewhat unusual in Kent. The only one I know that does off the top of my head is Meridian Valley.

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  31. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 29:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:
    And I don’t know why we have to keep explaining to you that the way it was didn’t have to be the way it had to be.

    It would be like if Washington passed a transportation bill that expanded freeways and built 3 new ferries. If someone argued against the ferries you’d respond by saying that the bill was about building freeways and ferries. That wouldn’t mean building the ferries was a good idea even if the freeways were desperately needed.

    (If that went over your head, the ferries are Obamacare health insurance provisions and the freeways are the Obamacare Medicaid provisions. It’s an analogy.)

    a transportation bill would cover ferries because they are transport…

    LOL. Thank you for proving my point.

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  32. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 31:

    By pfft @ 29:
    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:
    And I don’t know why we have to keep explaining to you that the way it was didn’t have to be the way it had to be.

    It would be like if Washington passed a transportation bill that expanded freeways and built 3 new ferries. If someone argued against the ferries you’d respond by saying that the bill was about building freeways and ferries. That wouldn’t mean building the ferries was a good idea even if the freeways were desperately needed.

    (If that went over your head, the ferries are Obamacare health insurance provisions and the freeways are the Obamacare Medicaid provisions. It’s an analogy.)

    a transportation bill would cover ferries because they are transport…

    LOL. Thank you for proving my point.

    I don’t get your point. let’s do this the hard way.

    do you want to cover pre-existing conditions?

    do you want people to have health insurance?

    do you want people to sign up whenever they want?

    do you want to help people that can’t pay at all and people that can sorta pay?

    if your answer is yes to all of those obamacare is one plan. another may be universal healthcare.

    Health Care Reform Is a “Three-Legged Stool”
    The Costs of Partially Repealing the Affordable Care Act
    http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/2010/08/05/8226/health-care-reform-is-a-three-legged-stool/

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  33. softwarengineer

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30

    Its SFHs on Their Own Land

    Probably a Condo Style HOA Kary….good observation….although your legal opinion is useful and yes, the HOA does own the gated community’s roads. We pay the maintenance inside the gates.

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  34. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 32 – You keep trying to claim that to provide anyone with healthcare (e.g. those on Medicaid) that you need to deal with the insurance issues of other people. That is not true at all.

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  35. Kary L. Krismer

    By softwarengineer @ 33:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 30

    Its SFHs on Their Own Land

    Probably a Condo Style HOA Kary….good observation….although your legal opinion is useful and yes, the HOA does own the gated community’s roads. We pay the maintenance inside the gates.

    It sounds more like a regular HOA that happens to own a lot more land than typical–the roads.

    You can have stand alone houses that don’t own the land they sit on. There are a number of those down almost to Auburn, and they are gated areas, but since you’re not disclosing the name of the complex I might see if those have a Kent address. And you can have communities where the owners own the lots, but the roads (and parks) are owned by the community, such as Meridian Valley.

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  36. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 34:

    RE: pfft @ 32 – You keep trying to claim that to provide anyone with healthcare (e.g. those on Medicaid) that you need to deal with the insurance issues of other people. That is not true at all.

    how so? not everyone who isn’t insured is eligible for medicaid. some will have subsidies and some will just benefit from being able to purchase insurance for a lower price on an exchange. you speak of insurance as something set in stone. many millions of people lose and then gain their insurance all in one year. many have insurance for a while and then lose it.

    ” that you need to deal with the insurance issues of other people.”

    absolutely you do. Obamacare has many reforms to those people with existing insurance. It reforms things like lifetime caps, annual caps and covers things like birth control. all of this of course raises costs for health insurance companies so you need a thing like mandates to get everyone in a pool and keep costs low.

    don’t think of insurance as something set in stone. those that have insurance now might not have insurance tomorrow, in 5 years or in 10 years. essentially in our old system there really was no thing as the insured and the uninsured. one group could easily become the other.

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  37. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 36 – No you don’t need to deal with insurance for everyone. This country got along without doing that for over 200 years. That was optional and dealing with the economic recovery and immigration reform was almost certainly more important at the time. The country would not have fallen apart without the insurance portion of Obamacare. It may fall apart because of it.

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  38. Kary L. Krismer

    Well I guess limited service brokers are only good enough if you’re the one receiving the commission, but not if you own a limited service brokerage and want to sell your own house.

    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20140515/ARTICLE/305159993/-1/sports

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  39. whatsmyname

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 37
    For a long time the system screwed a lot of people on healthcare, and many people were just unable to get decent care. As you say, most people were fine with that – including you. Now the system is screwing a different set of people, although not in as catastrophic a way. I get the sense that you are one of them. Most people will be fine with that. Ironic, isn’t it?

    Question for long time realtors: Is Memorial day weekend typically light/heavy/normal in getting listings and/or showing properties?

    Thanks.

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  40. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 37:

    RE: pfft @ 36 – No you don’t need to deal with insurance for everyone. This country got along without doing that for over 200 years. That was optional and dealing with the economic recovery and immigration reform was almost certainly more important at the time. The country would not have fallen apart without the insurance portion of Obamacare. It may fall apart because of it.

    I really don’t understand what you want. we want everyone to be insured. it was either obamacare or universal insurance. suddenly there is some new way you are made they didn’t try?

    “That was optional and dealing with the economic recovery and immigration reform was almost certainly more important at the time.”

    obama had just finished passing the stimulus when they started working on healthcare. immigration wasn’t as important and anyways while they were passing healthcare Scott Brown was elected and messed everything up. from then it was total obstruction. it’s not their fault. healthcare was more important.

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  41. pfft

    The system is just fine kary?

    New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

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  42. Kary L. Krismer

    By whatsmyname @ 39:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 37
    For a long time the system screwed a lot of people on healthcare, and many people were just unable to get decent care. As you say, most people were fine with that – including you. Now the system is screwing a different set of people, although not in as catastrophic a way. I get the sense that you are one of them. Most people will be fine with that. Ironic, isn’t it?.

    I think you hit the nail on the head–Obamacare screws a different set of people. It screws people who buy their own coverage and make a “decent” amount of money. I think if Seattle passes a $15 minimum wage that it would probably screw a couple who both make that wage but don’t get their health care through their employer. They would likely be paying about $8,000-$10,000 more for worse coverage, which would translate into $2.00-$2.50 per hour.

    It also screws employers who have to pay more for their employees’ coverage. Several companies have reported significant increases in costs due to Obamacare. And it will get worse because as I noted many states allowed employers to renew early so they don’t yet have the full Obamacare policies.

    And while pfft’s goal is everyone having insurance, that isn’t going to happen through Obamacare because not everyone will be able to afford it. Many of those who had insurance before will drop out, so you will just have a different group of uninsured people. So we’ll have people who were previously responsible be screwed so that those who were irresponsible can buy coverage. And we will see higher and higher prices for insurance under this system because the pools are too small.

    As to that last point, I think it was KOMO that recently had a story about a woman newly diagnosed with cancer who also just signed up for Obamacare. The timing was so close that the insurance wasn’t fully in place (the payments hadn’t been registered). She signed up with Group Health. Five years ago that would have been insurance fraud and criminal. Now she goes to a news station to get help. But when you get down to it, what happened is Group Health will now be paying out thousands of dollars each month in return for payments of only maybe $500 a month. That difference will be made up by increases in premiums for every other Group Health subscriber. It turns the concept of insurance on it’s head. It would be like getting in an auto accident and then calling up Allstate for coverage. Can you imagine how expensive auto insurance would be if you could do that?

    To answer pfft’s post 40, the alternative would be some limited form of single payer, allowing others to keep their insurance. That though would require a tax, so it would never be passed. Instead Congress merely “taxed” people by requiring that they buy super expensive lousy coverage.

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  43. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 42:

    By whatsmyname @ 39:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 37
    For a long time the system screwed a lot of people on healthcare, and many people were just unable to get decent care. As you say, most people were fine with that – including you. Now the system is screwing a different set of people, although not in as catastrophic a way. I get the sense that you are one of them. Most people will be fine with that. Ironic, isn’t it?.

    I think you hit the nail on the head–Obamacare screws a different set of people. It screws people who buy their own coverage and make a “decent” amount of money.

    you still don’t understand obamacare nor do you read what I write.

    1. insurance is ephemeral. you can have it and then you don’t. just because you had insurance doesn’t mean you’d always keep it. millions w/in one year lose their insurance and gain it back. that will never happen.

    2. if you do have insurance there are plenty of reforms for you.

    http://healthreform.kaiserpermanente.org/your-guide-to-reform?insured=insured-1

    If you have insurance the removal of lifetime and annual caps is a huge benefit. If you have insurance you will never lose it.

    I’ll get to the rest later.

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  44. Blurtman

    Obama Defends US Invasion Of Iraq

    In an effort to muster Washington’s European allies in an “isolation” and sanctions campaign against Russia, US President Barack Obama has defended the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.
    During a speech in Brussels, Belgium, on Wednesday, Obama said Washington at least tried to seek approval from the United Nations before it invaded Iraq. The US invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN and several experts say it violated any standard reading of international law.

    “America sought to work within the international system,” Obama said, referring to a presentation to the UN in 2003 by then-Secretary of State Colin Powell in which he gave a detailed description of Iraqi weapons programs that turned out not to exist.

    Under the pretext that former Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, possessed weapons of mass destruction, the US and its allies invaded Iraq in March 2003. In October 2004, however, a CIA report revealed that Saddam Hussein did not possess any weapons of mass destruction at the time of the invasion.

    http://en.shiapost.com/2014/03/27/obama-defends-us-invasion-of-iraq/

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  45. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 43:

    Obama Defends US Invasion Of Iraq

    In an effort to muster Washington’s European allies in an “isolation” and sanctions campaign against Russia, US President Barack Obama has defended the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.
    During a speech in Brussels, Belgium, on Wednesday, Obama said Washington at least tried to seek approval from the United Nations before it invaded Iraq. The US invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN and several experts say it violated any standard reading of international law.

    “America sought to work within the international system,” Obama said, referring to a presentation to the UN in 2003 by then-Secretary of State Colin Powell in which he gave a detailed description of Iraqi weapons programs that turned out not to exist.

    Under the pretext that former Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, possessed weapons of mass destruction, the US and its allies invaded Iraq in March 2003. In October 2004, however, a CIA report revealed that Saddam Hussein did not possess any weapons of mass destruction at the time of the invasion.

    http://en.shiapost.com/2014/03/27/obama-defends-us-invasion-of-iraq/

    nice try. obama was against the war. what he basically said is as bad as bush’s handling of Iraq was he at least tried to get approval. Russia didn’t even try.

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  46. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 44 – Tried with a bogus rationale. Yes, so much better. And if you want to make comparisons, let’s contrast the Crimean AbuGharib with the real one. Or the citzens blown up and burned alive by the invader’s firepower. Oh, yes, the USA can certainly take the high road.

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  47. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 45:

    RE: pfft @ 44 – Tried with a bogus rationale.

    Obama said “at least.” he probably shouldn’t have said it because Bush ended up doing whatever he wanted but you mischaracterized him.

    good try.

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  48. Kary L. Krismer

    Are we really comparing Obama and Bush, based on what Obama said? Anyone remember Joe Isuzu?

    Based on what he’s done since becoming President, especially applying the Surge to Afghanistan and his drone policy, there’s no reason to think Obama would have done anything different than Bush if he’d been elected President in 2000. That he might have voted differently was merely due to partisan politics.

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  49. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 47:

    Are we really comparing Obama and Bush, based on what Obama said? Anyone remember Joe Isuzu?

    Based on what he’s done since becoming President, especially applying the Surge to Afghanistan and his drone policy

    not true. please say why.

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