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Seattle Bubble Forum Archive • View topic - Skeptic Buys House

Skeptic Buys House

Anything and everything relating to Seattle-area real estate.

Moderators: synthetik, The Tim, Lake Hills Renter

Skeptic Buys House

Postby Hyperbola » Fri May 09, 2008 10:41 am

After a year of occasionally posting comments on this blog, it's only fair to disclose that my wife and I just bought a house in Woodinville! My rationale about the overall market hasn't changed -- I still think we would have gotten a better deal by waiting. There were many factors that influenced our decision:

-The house is only a few years old and in good condition. Does not have the uncertainties of an incomplete development and/or presale, and we also will not likely have major maintenance expenses for several years.
-The price was good for the neighborhood and recent comps. Many useful upgrades, like a double oven, better carpet, but not tacky (no granite!). Lots of well-organized rooms and closets, about double the size of typical postage-stamp lots in the area. The commute to Redmond/Bellevue is about the same as our current apartment with us working 7-3 and carpooling.
-Our (downtown Seattle) apartment is too small. We like the location, but there is no prospect of meeting our space needs there, either in an apartment or condo, within our price range. I suppose my mindset was more that less space (and fewer things) was better, but being married we have to compromise. :) The building is very upscale and quiet but it's hard to hang anything on the walls because the drywall is junk. Some of the appliances are mediocre and the paint is crappy. Typical conditions for a rental.
-We find significant sentimental value in owning our home. We wanted to be able to redecorate, make improvements, and not have to worry about being forced to move if our unit goes condo.
-We were only willing to look at houses we could reasonably stay in for 10 years or more. We plan to stay at least 5 years. This makes the 10% hit for turnover and the depreciation risk somewhat less.
-We were only willing to consider arrangements where my wife could stop working once we start a family. (She actually plans to keep working at least part-time.) Our plan is to pay off all loans except a $417k 1st mortgage within 3 years.
-For the first 3 years, our net expenses (out of pocket cost minus principal paydown, after taxes, ignoring opportunity cost) will be quite a bit more than our apartment. After that, it'll be less than our apartment by several hundred. Of course, our house costs much less than our apartment would sell for, so this is apples to oranges. In any case, our expenses are well within our means, but we won't be saving as much for stocks/bonds as before.
-We were not willing to move to rent somewhere in the burbs with enough space, and then move again when the dust settles from the bust. We're doing lots of the work ourselves and enlisting help from family, so it is not a very expensive process, but it is time-consuming. We also did not like the idea of renting a SFH due to the increased risk of the owner having financial problems. Big apartment complexes tend to be more predictable and reliable in their somewhat shady ways.
-Our loan package is as follows: $417k 1st mortgage, with .25% extra interest to take off the loan origination fee. We actually ended up with a note rate of 6.25%, which was 3/8 above the market. The remaining 1/8% was due to one of us having decent but not excellent credit. 10% and change for a HELOC at PRIME+1.5, with a teaser rate. 10% down. Apparently many lenders won't even do this kind of package anymore, which is cheaper and significantly more flexible than a single 90% loan + PMI.

There were a few surprises with the paperwork - I would NOT recommend the loan agent we used. She got the right package for us but was a bit optimistic with the GFE. She also seemed to hate RedFin.

The RedFin experience was perfect for us - we did the research that we would be doing anyway and get 2% back. The field agent that actually accompanied us to the property did a good job looking out for us, but it wasn't the same person as the agent in their office that helped us negotiate the paperwork. It really didn't matter; they stayed in touch. Our loan agent got very confused when we wanted the rebate to be applied to our closing costs. She kept trying to bully us into using the rest on points instead of taking a check after closing, saying we weren't allowed to take a credit more than closing costs, etc.

The biggest problem by far was the seller and their agent being completely dishonest with us (and each other) about the repairs and their (in)ability to move out on time. Ended up closing one day late after a standoff between us, the seller, and our loan agent. Yuck!

(As an aside, this is actually the second time we've attempted to buy... the first time we got screwed out of the deal by a seller who inadvertently sold two contracts for the house. Lawyers, lawsuit, stress, and a settlement. But this mess was far worse in terms of the potential damages if it got dragged out. A seller not being ready to leave on time can result in the buyer having to start eviction proceedings if the sale closes and they refuse to leave!)

But the deal is done as of yesterday and we are officially homeowners!
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby biliruben » Fri May 09, 2008 10:49 am

Congrats Hyperbola!

Sounds like it wasn't too smooth.

I though about Redfin, and glad to hear it wasn't a problem, but negotiated a discount with a full-service RE instead.
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby redmondjp » Fri May 09, 2008 12:40 pm

Cue the realtors' 'This transaction would have gone much smoother if you had used a RE professional' speech in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
Fighting off Affluenza on the Eastside since 1995
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby Hyperbola » Fri May 09, 2008 1:18 pm

Ahahaha. I stopped counting how many times we've heard that speech after what happened to us on the first "sale". Every listing agent we toured houses with said it, our loan agent said it REPEATEDLY, and even our friends said it. I gotta say, it sucks.

What can you do other than evaluate the alternatives and choose what works best? For us, RedFin worked best. I would use them again even if commission refunds were outlawed and they charged the same as everybody else.
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby laxtosnoco » Fri May 09, 2008 1:20 pm

Hyperbola, congratulations on the new home! It sounds like you made an informed choice and thought everything through in advance. It's interesting that the 'discount' RE professional you used worked just fine, while the 'full-service' LO caused you the headache.
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby The Tim » Sun May 11, 2008 10:17 pm

Great post Hyperbola. Would you mind if I adapted it for a front-page blog post?
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby Hyperbola » Mon May 12, 2008 6:26 am

Go for it Tim. Sounds fine to me. :)
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Re: Skeptic Buys House

Postby B&W Nikes » Wed May 14, 2008 10:55 am

Congratulations Hyperbola! Another skeptic here (I and my wife) scheduled to close next week on a purchase of a duplex. We are going in on it with her parents, who will use one unit as a transitional location for a couple of years, while we occupy the other unit. It feels completely crazy in light of knowing what we all do about the weird state of both housing and the economy in general, but the situation is unique and appropriate for both short and long term. We get to stay in our Capitol Hill neighborhood, where I've lived for over 15 years, our monthly expenses will increase slightly (not including massive up-front remodel effort/costs which will probably wipe us out in the short term and are spooky for a 1st timer), and my sister in-law just had a kid that we'll be within easy walking distance to help her out with. What can I say, the rails of the crazy train extend far off on the horizon!

I wanted take a moment off the main board to say as heartfelt thanks to Tim, DJ, SCrow, and the really cool cadre of regulars that have given me quite an education in the last several months that I've been reading SB (and posting my hopefully occasionally worthwhile comments.) Before I stumbled on SB I had a very much less nuanced sense of the many sides of the market and particularly of the processes everyone experiences. Living in the CH/Downtown area for so long and experiencing the huge changes there has biased my view of the region in a way that wasn't exactly cognitive of the big picture. The site could probably carry a .edu or .org extension from the educational content, and I don't think we would have made as (hopefully) good of a decision without you all. Thank you, and cheers! -ben
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