Seattle Bubble

1) Make worst roads in nation
2) ???
3) Profit.

Seriously though, we spend so much $$$ on our horrible roads, I sometimes wonder if we couldn't run a monorail to every house in the country for a less!

They'd vote it down.

And if you had been here 200 years ago you'd be dissapointed at what they have done to downtown Seattle since then.

Growth is as natural as humanity itself. It must be handled. My dad likes to remind me that I 405 had two general purpose lanes between the airport and Bellevue back in the late sixties. It is now 40 years later and the area exploded in population since then. So we NOW have...drum roll please...two general purpose lanes between the airport and Bellevue!

I have heard from several people who moved into this area from others (Chicago, LA and Kentucky) that the Seattle area seems to, even more than other areas, develop an area and worry about ingress/egress later.

This area has some geographical challenges, no doubt, but our main problem with roads is incompetence to the point of criminality on the part of those responsible for ensuring those of us that pay for roads actually get them. It is really that simple.

167 should be four lanes.
Maple valley highway should be a freeway of at least three lanes.
I-405 should be four lanes, and five through bellevue to 520.
i-90 should be four lanes in each direction from bellevue to Seattle.
Ditto 520.
Most of the surface streets designed for high traffic (think Strander blvd by Southcenter and Highway 99/Aurora) should be AT LEAST three lanes in each direction.

All of the above is above and beyond any HOV lanes.

I think of the freeways as arteries and the surface streets (through downtown renton, bellevue, U-district, etc.), as capilaries. What many don't understand is that not only are the freeways JAMMED during rush hour, and some places pretty much seven days a week, but there are so many people trying to avoid them that the capilaries are jammed as well.

That is why adding only one lane to roads like I-405 in renton is not just short sighted. It is...come closer...closer...STUPID!

Or worse. It may be very wrong headed social engineering gone terribly bad.

It is why my "five year plan" is to move to Kentucky. I've had it.

I agree that many of Seattle's roads are in disrepair. Besides the Alaskan Way viaduct, another example is Mercer St. around Lake Union. I'm no expert on the issue but I figure it's a city funding problem. It's part of the reason why I prefer the Eastside. Yesterday I was walking around my neighborhood. The arterial is in top shape and has excellent landscaping, and there were maintenance people out with leaf blowers. I think the quality is overkill; I'd rather they do lower-maintenance landscaping. I-90 over Mercer Island, before the latest construction, is the best (& best looking) freeway I've seen anywhere. As I recall it was the costliest stretch of interstate in the country when they built it.

Don't forget the elephant in the room that was completely ignored on the R&T bill last fall - I-5 downtown. At one point, it is effectively a 4 lane highway with a dozen exits/entrances in less than 1 mile. No real surprise then that most of the traffic congestion starts there and builds out.

If I was going to lay out a plan for Seattle, it would be:

I-405 becomes I-5. I-5 becomes a downtown spur (since it's nearly impossible to expand the area under the convention center).
New I-5 is 12 lanes: Semi/commercial vehicle bypass, 2 HOT, 3 general in each direction.
I-5 from 305/518 spur is also 12 lanes, tapering to 10 past Tacoma, 8 around Dupont/Lacey, 6 past Tumwater all the way to Vancouver.
I-5 from 305 north would be 12 lanes tapering to 10 past 526, 8 past Hwy 2, 6 to the border.
Old I-5 between 405 merges (now 305) remains as is, but gets a bit of rework.
I-90 stays as is.
520 is 6 lanes (1 HOT + 2 general each way) + bike path and light rail.
167 is probably fine as a 6 lane (HOT + 2 general). Most of the backup stems from the merge with 405 which would hopefully be addressed by adding 6 lanes.
522 becomes a 6 lane limited access (similar to Aurora between Green Lake and Queen Anne).
Replace Viaduct with proper 6 lane viaduct, better off-ramp for 1st ave, complete the segment between Spokane and 1st ave bridge/518 to keep flow going.
Redo Spokane/W Seattle Bridge - 6 elevated lanes all the way to 405, proper interchange with 99.
Various improvements to 512, 522, 202, 169, 900, and 18.

... Then file bankruptcy.

The east side does have much better roads in general.

I know that's a common sentiment, but I don't think they could be much better all things considered. I don't agree with always reducing congestion, since I believe in "if you build it, they will come", as in, if you add 2 lanes to the freeway, it will eventually be packed again, and probably sooner than later, as people make decisions that they would have made differently had the 2 lanes not been added. I like congestion as a way to slow growth. If growth is inevitable, as someone said above, then we are doomed. Resources are already way overtaxed, IMO. As I see it, the youngest generation alive today, even in the US, will have to find a way to change society so its success is not dependent on growth, or else they will have a far lower standard of living or life expectancy than my generation has.

Congestion hasn't really slowed the growth of the bay area, LA, Houston, NYC, DC, etc... Despite the high economic, environmental, and quality of life costs associated with highly congested areas.

You do make a valid point about building more freeways out to exurbs. Improving 167 would make commuting from Kent or Auburn less painful, encouraging more growth there.

Compare NE 8th, a main thoroughfare in Bellevue to Mercer Street. Heck, compare ANY main thoroughfare in Seattle to any thoroughfare in Bellevue. I've lived here since 1967. I've bicycle commuted both cities for years. Although there are exceptions to the rule, Seattle streets are significantly worse than Bellevue's. There simply IS no comparison.

We are on opposite sides of this issue, utterly and completely. Your thinking also explains the observations so many visitors to Seattle notice we seem to build and worry about the roads later. One reason the roads get filled when we add lanes is because people using "alternate" routes can now use the freeway, freeing up the other roads for the traffic for which they were intended.

Did you know coal creek parkway is a quagmire because of people from Fairwood that completely bypass I-405 on their way to Seattle, Bellevue and Redmond every day. I find it fascinating that someone actually wants to social engineer us by INTENTIONALLY making it harder to use the roads I pay for. And do you really want to get into the discussion about the effect of the emissions of tens of thousands of cars idling in hours of gridlock vs those same cars getting quickly and efficiently to their destination.

Yes, there will always be more people, and the planet and environment can handle many billions more than are currently here. And that's ok. God designed it for such. It is like a building that was designed to hold 20,000 workers, started with two workers, and now that we are up to 1,000 workers, some are concerned that we are taxing the HVAC system (our environment) because 1,000 is greater than 2.

I'm glad there were fewer around of your ilk when I-5 was put through Seattle. We may not have even gotten the anemic two lanes we DID get.

The job of the DOT is to spend our road tax dollars to improve our driving experience as much as your job is to use the dollars your employer pays you to do the job he hired you for, not circumvent his wishes and pursue activities that go directly against his wishes. Likewise with our DOT. They are MY employee. I pay them to make sure that I have ample roads on which to drive my vehicle and that those roads remain in good repair. If either is in question (and both are), I need to hire someone else.

I say all this as an avid bicycle commuter. You see, I take seriously the concept of "think globally but act locally". If you want to lower the population and reduce traffic, then get a vasectomy (or have your tubes tied if you are female) and stop driving. But DO NOT FORCE others into your lifestyle because you think YOU know what is best for them.

You don't. Nor do I - So I leave them the he!! alone. (I hate SUV's but I don't for a moment want to deny to others the freedom to buy and drive them).

BTW, we are not doomed. Society has a way of adapting to the natural situation. Nobody has to force anything. My bike commuting is a good example. So are the scooter sales and gas consumption statistics. And don't forget the SHRINKING population in the western world.

We are not in the least doomed. At least, not regarding congestion.

I believe that the 486 computer was really the beginning of making computers a commodity for the average person. The performance and value that a computer brought to a person really started justifying the cost. And we all know where that took us.

I believe something similar will happen with telecommuting and life in general. That is, I suspect that the average person will reduce driving due to natural changes in the culture including, but not limited to, high gas prices, telecommuting, parking costs, online shopping, online chat, games, etc., re-growth of the local community, etc.

Technology improvements will be necessary for some, but once we have our "486" moment, it will snowball.

I read a book by Dr. Rober Prehoda back in 1980 called "Your Next 50 years". Among other things, he predicted Cell phones and the collapse of the Soviet union due to improved communicatin into and out of the country. Another thing he predicted, albeit towards the end of the 50 years, was a place called "Micropolis". It was basically the equivalent of small bedroom communities similar to exurbs where people would have very little need to leave them except for the amenities only a large city can offer (theater, professional sports arenas, etc.) Think North Bend. You would work there, shop there and maybe go into the office in Seattle once a month or every other week. The technology to make this possible and, more importantly, practical and economically feasable is already being brought together at breakneck speed.

I like to say that the world now changes more in five years than it used to change in five generations. I firmly believe that in ten years you will barely recognise this place. And the "GOOD" changes will all be market driven. And the less the government gets involved, the better it will be.

The only things I disagree with are:

167 - I drive that to band practice once a week. It starts bogging down in Kent and can be bumper to bumper all the way to Puyallup. However, the current economy may take care of that little problem.

Second is filing bankruptcy. I think that if corruption and other "non-highway" expenses (like ferries) were removed from our various vehicle taxes and fees, much of what you propose would be doable. I'd also like to see many more park-n-rides like the one in eastgate built. If we had dedicated bus lanes we could almost eliminate the need for light rail. As the need arises, we just add more busses. As a route gets more busses, there are more departure times, increasing their desireability. It is like the 550 from Bellevue. If you miss one, just wait a few minutes. And it is a direct Bellevue to Seattle ride. Short wait, pretty direct, and you park in the burbs. Pull out your Razor when you get downtown (I actually used to do that) and you have a huge radius available "on foot".

Ferries are a part of the highway system.

It really does have to do with where you live. I used to live at the South end of Mercer Island just a few houses down from Paul Allens "compound". I would bicycle commute to the University district.

On a side note, it took an average of 48 minutes by bicycle and 52 minutes by bus. It was fun to beat the bus.

Anyway, I took West Mercer way every day and it was a very smoothe twisty that was (and is) a lot of fun on a bicycle. Apparently it was not smooth enough, because while people by the tens of thousands had been putting up with years of the teeth rattling surface of just a few blocks of Mercer street south of lake union, Mercer Island repaved the ENTIRE LENGTH of West Mercer way for the 300 or so that use it every day.

It was still smoothe, but now it was "extra black" and had shiny new road turtles!

whatajoke.

Yeah, when I lived in Fremont and had more free time, a lap around Mercer Island was my regular ride.

Yeah, Spokane hates that. The cost per car is extraordinary.