Done with landlords forever - at least, I wish I could be

[deprogram]

Ever since I left home at the age of 17, never to return (my parents are possession-less, landless, having given everything to Jesus - don't even ask) I have been a renter. I've had room-mates in Pittsburgh, rented houses in the 'burbs in Ohio, lofts in downtown Cleveland, and finally moved to the Seattle area just as the bubble burst, in September of 2007.

I and my wife own two medium (35 and 65 pound) dogs, and this makes things a lot more complicated. We're basically required to rent dog-friendly houses, and those are hard to find close in to the city. Breed specific legislation and prejudice don't make things any easier, either.

I've had generally good experiences with landlords. I do improvements for the cost of materials, have extensive construction experience and am a very competent electrician. I have never left any damage other than minor wear and tear, and my dogs couldn't be less destructive, or better behaved.

Yet, the last three landlords have been simply evil. When I left Ohio I was screwed out of my entire security deposit, charged for landscaping equipment that was never on the property (I even LEFT some new equipment that I had bought - it may have been stolen given the neighborhood) and charged $700 for landscaping. Essentially, they knew we were moving out of state and would not go after them in small claims court.

My next landlord just kept my security deposit and refused to give an explanation. This is after I put a roof on his porch and put down over half a ton of high-quality mulch, planted ornamental trees, etc. I was compensated only for materials. Again, he was across state lines (Idaho). I suppose I can't blame him, the deposit was fairly small and he got simply robbed on the property - they paid $460k during the bubble for a 1920's vacation shack that had been on a nice parcel which the original owner had split in three. So, it was basically a strip of land about 90 feet wide with a tear-down on it on the waterfront in Suquamish. Great view. Not exactly prime location. I was paying about a quarter of his mortgage in rent. They put it on the market after we moved out, but of course it didn't sell.

We're currently living in a nice, updated rambler in a reasonably decent part of Renton, up on the hill, with a big back yard. Landlords paid $260k in 2006, and since did between 20-40k in improvements. We paid $1700/month for a year, and were ok with it, because they didn't mind the dogs, and there's no carpet, and it was what we wanted. Average rent for the area is about $1200/mo. It hurt, but the house is nice and when our friends come from the Midwest to visit they have a nice place to stay. My checks never bounce. I'm never late by more than a few days. At the end of the year they wanted us to sign another year lease, I managed to negotiate them to 1550/mo on a month to month basis. Our strategy was to wait for the fall and either find another rental or possibly buy.

Then, exactly 21 days before the end of this month, they gave us a terse notice to vacate by September 1st as they were going to do some landscaping and put the house on the market.

Yes, this is technically legal. Is it the right thing to do? Is it the SANE thing to do?? They want $325k. They need $300k just to walk away with nothing. The property looks nice enough, but the sole source of heat is a gas fireplace (I installed a thermostat - it was on a switch - and didn't even charge them. Well, at least it keeps my gas bill much lower.) There is a church adjoining the back yard so every Sunday you are treated to a few hours of loudly sung hymns. I can't tell the denomination, exactly. No privacy fencing, just chain link. If that's your thing, great, but I'd rather not be right next to a church. No garage, just a carport that's too narrow to hold much more than my surfboards and my Miata.

This notice to vacate was the last straw. We desperately threw ourselves to the task of finding a suitable place, but closing in three weeks is virtually impossible even if you have a place picked out and money is not an issue. Neither of us come from wealth or have savings - I have unsecured debt incurred from moving here and supporting both of us while she looked for work. She has a staggering amount of debt from law school.

Now, we both have good jobs, although I work from home as a tech consultant and have found it hard to concentrate, as you might understand. This is costing me big-time. I'm being kicked out of my home AND my office. We were just not prepared for this.

We have been pre-approved for 200k, and frankly I don't want to spend more. All I want is a solid structure that needs work that I can improve, and room for our beloved animals. Yet this seems impossible to find. It also needs to be basically livable as we don't have any relatives or friends who can put us up while we look for a place.

I'm afraid that if I sign another lease I will end up stabbing the landlord in the eye with the pen they give me to sign with. First + last + deposit (goodbye deposit) is the best part of a down payment on a 200k FHA loan.

So frustrated. I have found an agent who seems trustworthy, and I'm no idiot, I know how to build a house and what materials cost. He has not tried to bullshit me. I am only looking at bank-owned as they are the only places even close to reasonably priced.

We countered on a place in Fed Way, offered 194k which was approximately 2002-2003 pricing for the place, and it wasn't even that nice. Someone else countered HIGHER. In a way, I'm glad - 194k was much too high. They can keep it.

A day or so ago I get a voicemail from our landlords almost begging us to stay until spring. Wow. Maybe someone hit them over the head with a clue-by-four. The way they treated us, I am not inclined to give them another dime, but it looks like we have no choice.

Any advice or sympathy would be appreciated. We moved out to the city of our dreams, and we're never going back to the Midwest. It's been a rough few weeks, though - there's nothing good under 200k, and the few places we've found that we like we're just getting the run-around from banks and listing agents.

I feel like a serf in the middle ages. I am done. Done, done, done.

[SeattleMoose]

deprogram...sorry to hear about your bad experiences.

After moving here from TX in late 2005 (REALLY bad time to arrive as bubble was still inflating and froth was at an all time high) decided to rent.

1) Apt in Kirkland (Villagio) - great experience but after living in own home with 5 acres...that only lasted 6 months. Dense living does not appeal to me.

2) Rent lower portion of house in Denny Blaine - the minute I met the owner I knew she was a "#itch" but my wife loved the place so we moved in anyway. All my worst fears came true. Petty, biting, and lording it over us....for the most trivial of things. WORSE...she lived right above us!!!

3) She moved out so she could rent both top and bottom. We moved upstairs and paid $400 more/month for the privilege to do so. With her gone is actually tolerable but whenever she came over it was very tense. When we left she charged $500 for marks on the wall, picture nailholes in walls, and other piddly little things. Oh yea, she drove a wedge between me and my wife and my wife left to "find herself" (this after forcing me to move in to the place after I felt how wicked this woman was)

4) Moved to rental house in Magnolia. Landlord and I have had several face to face confrontations over:
a) Somebody broke one of the tree/shrubs in the front yard and he blamed me because "the house doesn't look in lived enough" because I usually keep only one light on at a time, park in the back, keep to myself, and keep the porch light off.
b) After a) I started keeping the porch light on at his request. But autotimer broke so I replaced it. He didn't like the unit I picked (and paid for and installed myself) and implied it would be coming out of my damage deposit.
c) The fact that I prefer to park in the back and use "the gate". He had the the gall to tell me the "gate" was not an "everyday gate" and I should park in front....to make the house look more lived in.
d) The fact that I didn't know any of the neighbors and he was afraid that they would think he had rented the house to <fill in blank> (didn't know pressing flesh with neighbors was part of the contract).
e) Of the $2K deposit I will be lucky to see half of it

Yep, renting has been great financially but I have had two (ahem) "challenging" landlords. I must say in an apartment you don't have to deal with that sort of thing as much.

[deprogram]

Ok, well, if your wife left you due to a rental situation, you have my story beat. I'm sure the rental situation is probably not the whole story, but good god!

I would NEVER consider living in the same building as a landlord, unless it was a loft/apartment situation. That would just be intolerable.

I wouldn't say renting has been good financially. When I was single and had no pets, it was pretty good... but pets make it incredibly expensive if you want an urban lifestyle. And, of course - I have no equity in over 13 years of renting. Yay!

[Alan]

Deprogram,

If they are begging you then negotiate a better rental price. See if you can lock them into a two year lease. Offer to do their landscape, but make them pay you (you can charge them less than the competition because you don't have to travel to do the work).

[ira s]

Deprogram,
If you really want to be done with landlords forever, and are looking for an area a little closer but not more expensive than Federal Way, you might want to look at the 98178 zip code. A lot of the houses there have larger lots and are pretty run down.

[Markor]

Thanks for sharing your story.

Assuming you're intent on buying, I suggest you expand your search to cheaper areas. I see single-family houses for less than $200K in the greater Seattle area. I don't know how livable they are though. You might include the outer Eastside area too, like Snoqualmie and Carnation. If your wife works in Seattle, perhaps you can move further south but stay near the Sounder train line.

I'd look at not-bank-owned houses that are listed at up to $220K, on which to make an offer no more than $200K. You might have better luck doing that than making an offer on a bank-owned house with a cheaper list price. I've read that it can take weeks just to get a response to an offer from the bank, which also tries to create bidding wars via low list prices.

[wreckingbull]

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really think this will help you. You have GOT to get your emotions in check before you start making any home ownership decisions. Buying a house just because the camel's back broke is going to be a recipe for disaster.

Finding the right home for your family can take months. I rushed into a home purchase and regretted it. After living in the place for a few months, the realization that I did not do my homework started to set it in. It was a miserable experience.

My advice: Swallow your pride, extend your lease, and start looking for a place now. Find an agent like Ira here, that knows the diamond-in-the-rough neighborhoods. In six months, you will be ready to make the move and the pieces will fall into place.

[ira s]

Or...Would your landlord be amenable to just having you continue living there on a month to month basis without signing a new lease? That would give you more flexibility, and is customary and typical when leases expire.

[Mama]

Well, in case you decide to look for a rental instead:

Looking at the landlord is almost as important as looking at the place. We've generally had good landlord experiences with one exception. Ever since I would not sign a lease until I meet the landlord in person. My best advice is to look for someone who owns a few properties and turns them themselves (i.e. they don't use a paid manager). Why? Somebody who makes a living renting apartments/houses and has done so for a while knows a good tenant is priceless. I think you can get a feel of whether they value long term, stable tenants when you talk to them. Also, my general advice is, as a pet owner, to not rent from people who dislike pets. We did it once and the landlord kept "seeing" pee stains on the carpet...In the end, we agreed that there were no pee stains but it was stressful to know they always expected some sort of pet damage.

Buying has a whole other set of possible pitfalls so I won't even go there....

[deprogram]

Thanks for all the pointers. I've basically been using redfin to simply search the entire area south of Seattle. My wife works in Auburn, but could transfer to Seattle. Right now it's just very convenient to work in Auburn, as she doesn't really have to deal with rush hour traffic, since she's going south.

Ideally I'd like to move closer to the city, and keep her commute similar or a little longer. If we can get close to the Sounder line, we can start integrating that into her commute. I work from home, so technically can work anywhere, but I find myself heading up to Seattle with some regularity.

Des Moines is appealing. Plane noise doesn't bother us a bit, and there are some houses with a lot of character.

I offered to landscape for the cost of materials. Not interested - they have landscaper friends that they can trade with for labor. Ok, whatever. They want me to tend the flowerbeds in the front and make the house basically showable at any time. They refer to it as 'our' house (as in 'take care of your house') after telling us to hit the bricks only a week before.

We are back to month to month. I want to wait at least a month, perhaps two, but I'm not signing any leases. This house is my office, and all I can think of is that I want to get out of here. It's a lovely house, but in my mind, it's cursed.

Agreed - rational factors are important. I should say that I've been following the market (and this site) closely since we moved here in 2007. We have a very good idea of what we want, and I carefully check satellite images for negative factors in the vicinity of the property before we even look at a place.

We have made the rational decision to stop renting to preserve our sanity. I am looking at the low end of the market to limit future losses. I also do want a fair bit of a project, and I have no interest whatsoever in 'remuddled' and repossessed properties. Looking for something fairly original, that hasn't been ruined by people trying to make a quick buck.

I've done my homework. Now I'm just waiting for the beginning of school season and the inevitable price corrections to bring the place we want into our price range.

[deprogram]

@Mama: you are so right.

Supposedly we -are- good tenants. Our landlords have never, ever rented a property before and have wildly unreasonably expectations. I thought the fact that they were actually cash-flowing a property bought at the peak of the bubble would keep them off our backs, and happy, but ultimately, it wasn't good enough.

They now own TWO properties bought at peak prices, and to the best of my knowledge hold two mortgages to the tune of between 600k-750k total. Why they would throw out a tenant that is covering one of these mortgages is beyond me.

Oh yes: they 'need to sell'. Yes, well, good luck with that. They tried it in 2008. Not sure what -they- think has changed since then. All the rest of us are very clear on what has changed since then. Some people just live in a reality of their own creation.

Just thinking about this is driving my cortisol levels up. Ugh.