Boom on the eastside fueled by recent immigrants?

Anything and everything relating to Seattle-area real estate.

Moderators: synthetik, The Tim, Lake Hills Renter

Is the boom on the eastside mostly fueled by recent immigrant-hi-tech-employees?

Yes
12
48%
No
8
32%
Maybe/Hard to say
5
20%
 
Total votes : 25

Boom on the eastside fueled by recent immigrants?

Postby EastSider » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:12 am

I think this topic deserves a posting of it's own. I'd like to hear thoughts from more folks.

EastSider wrote:Not to start of a racial debate, but.....

My observation has been that most of the people who come to a open-house (or a new construction site) on the eastisde seem to be from outside the US. I guess this is understandable given that MS hires so many engineers from outside the country.


anforowicz wrote:I think this is a valid observation. In my opinion a significant part of real estate market on the eastside is fueled by immigrants who had no previous experience with real estate in their home countries.

I came to work for Microsoft 2 years ago from Poland. I had no previous experience with a real estate market and no previous experience with living in the USA. It seemed reasonable to assume that the prices and appreciasion I am seeing are normal. I almost bought a house in 2006, but found this blog prior to making a serious offer.


Lukasz
EastSider
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Postby twistjusty » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:33 am

I think Microsoft, as an immigrant's first view of America, grossly distorts the wider reality.

When I first moved to the US, and started at MS, I was astounded to see CNBC playing from suspended monitors not just at MS lobbies, but at dotcom foyers as well. I thought every American had a stock portfolio and could memorize AAPL, AMZN, CSCO, INTC, ORCL, MSFT, SUNW and YHOO closing prices. Considering our TVs were jammed/infiltrated by odiously gaudy, excessive 'let's gawk at the rich and famous' shows exported by the major networks, this fixation on money did little to counter our beliefs all the Americans were rich, and Microsofties were no different.

Go to a MS cafeteria and overhear "oh, how's your new Mercedes? Did you and your children enjoy your Italy trip over spring break? Have you decided between Lakeside and the Bush school?" and wonder what it is you're doing wrong funding your retirement, paying for daycare, and paying down your house.

I hope the immigrants buying are from rich families, or come from Hong Kong, and aren't suckered into thinking these house prices are the norm, the way I was suckered into thinking those NASDAQ stocks were.
"A society in which consumption has to be artificially stimulated in order to keep production going is a society founded on trash and waste, and such a society is a house built upon sand." -- Dorothy L. Sayers
twistjusty
Bubble Watcher
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:06 am
Location: -7% annual appreciation zipcode

Postby synthetik » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:12 pm

From what I understand, we aren't bringing ENOUGH people over... Most company execs I've spoken with are desperate for good help, and they aren't finding it in the US.

I'd say that due to the traffic situation, more people want to live closer to where they work (Microsoft); and Bellevue has obviously taken off like mad.

And no, I don't think that any amount of immigration will continue to artificially prop up RE values from here on out - anywhere in the US - EVEN Seattle/Bellevue.
“If fascism ever comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis
synthetik
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: Happy Renting in Capitol Hill

Postby AwaySooner » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:46 pm

It's 21st Century's fault, they keep going to the airport to pick up the Chinese Immigrants and put them in overprice houses. :) I doubt any immigrants who just moved here has the credit/saving to buy $600k USD house, especially if they are from China. All the Chinese rich executives stay in China, there's where all the actions are. Heck, offer me a job and I'll move to Beijing.
AwaySooner
Bubble Blatherer
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:55 pm

Postby EastSider » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:31 pm

AwaySooner wrote: All the Chinese rich executives stay in China, there's where all the actions are. Heck, offer me a job and I'll move to Beijing.


Interesting. In the recent past, I've been hearing similar things from people of Chinese & East-Indian origin --- they think the "action" is in their home countries.
EastSider
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Postby mike2 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:52 pm

AwaySooner wrote: I doubt any immigrants who just moved here has the credit/saving to buy $600k USD house, especially if they are from China.


That's a valid consideration, but banks have been more willing lately to extend credit to non-citizens. With the way credit scoring is currently calculated, I doubt it would take more than a year of earnest effort to build up a good credit rating.

Americans can get loans a year out of bankrupcy - if an immigrant plays the game right there's no reason to believe they'd be inelligible. Most of the Asian families I've known have been VERY willing to help out other members. In this case it's not even a matter of cash, it's just helping them establish credit.

Oddly, I have noticed that disproportionate number of new sales into established neighborhoods have had Asian names - and likewise, the recent KC Notices of Trustee Sale seem to follow a similar trend.

I'd like to see some aggregate stats on this before drawing a conclusion.
mike2
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:01 am
Location: Not Seattle Anymore

Postby EastSider » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:58 pm

mike2 wrote:Oddly, I have noticed that disproportionate number of new sales into established neighborhoods have had Asian names - and likewise, the recent KC Notices of Trustee Sale seem to follow a similar trend.

I'd like to see some aggregate stats on this before drawing a conclusion.


Just curious --- where did you notice this trend? Is there any easy way to get some agrregate stats?
EastSider
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Postby mike2 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:21 pm

The only time I bother looking at eastside prices is if I know the neighborhood - I only have a few friends over there so anything I've noticed in their particular neighborhoods isn't necessarily a representative sample. I havne't found any good stats on it.

There likely are some significant demographic trends in recent home purchases. The problem being that whenever the trends have a racial or ethnic component someone is going to object to it being reported as such.
mike2
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:01 am
Location: Not Seattle Anymore

Postby synthetik » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:47 pm

I doubt any immigrants who just moved here has the credit/saving to buy $600k USD house, especially if they are from China.


I think you'll find that in a few years China will own more of this country than you could ever have imagined.
“If fascism ever comes to America, it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Sinclair Lewis
synthetik
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:39 pm
Location: Happy Renting in Capitol Hill

Postby Alan » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:42 pm

From what I understand, we aren't bringing ENOUGH people over... Most company execs I've spoken with are desperate for good help, and they aren't finding it in the US.


I don't think that is true. Companies could find the talent they want if they were willing to pay more. Even MS only pays in the 65th percentile of salaries for software developers (but they want the 90th percentile of talent). Google pays even less than MS from what I hear.

Bringing in foreign workers to keep wages low also removes incentive for Americans to go into technology. It will only exasberate the problem.
Alan
Bubble Banter Boss
 
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:08 pm

Postby twistjusty » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:56 am

I doubt any immigrants who just moved here has the credit/saving to buy $600k USD house, especially if they are from China.


Apparently you've not paid attention to Vancouver, BC's 1985-1999 large influx of Hong Kong investor/emigres. Are you saying they would prefer to move to Vancouver rather than Seattle? I could see that...

Is it your position that people from higher cost of living cities (London, Tokyo, Vancouver, etc.) wouldn't lower themselves to move to our area for work opportunities? That only immigrants with lesser means would bother to come over to "the New World"?
"A society in which consumption has to be artificially stimulated in order to keep production going is a society founded on trash and waste, and such a society is a house built upon sand." -- Dorothy L. Sayers
twistjusty
Bubble Watcher
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:06 am
Location: -7% annual appreciation zipcode

Postby AwaySooner » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:22 pm

US is not Canada, immigration policy here is a lot stricter than Canada, where everybody including their second cousins and family pets can get PR and move to Canada. I just don't think Microsoft can bring enough immigrants in to affect the real estate market in the area. Many people who bought high price home around here are local. I can be wrong.
AwaySooner
Bubble Blatherer
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:55 pm

Postby Puget Sounder » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:55 pm

AwaySooner wrote:US is not Canada, immigration policy here is a lot stricter than Canada, where everybody including their second cousins and family pets can get PR and move to Canada. I just don't think Microsoft can bring enough immigrants in to affect the real estate market in the area. Many people who bought high price home around here are local. I can be wrong.


Agreed. It is pretty hard for a foreign national from China to get a green card for the US. The Hong Kong immigrants came to Canada partly because of Canada's lax immigration laws.
Puget Sounder
Bubble Blatherer
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:30 pm

Postby WetCoaster » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:50 pm

Immigration in Canada is very different from the US. There are no quotas and the emphasis is on educated younger people, and people to fill skilled worker jobs in fields of high demand.

In the late eighties, and nineties many educated people immigrated from Hong Kong fearing the Chinese takeover in 1997. Real Estate in Hong Kong is very, very expensive and for many people it was easy to buy houses in Vancouver.

I'm not sure who the 'new immigrants' are, but it is very difficult to get into the US in spite of tons of skilled jobs which can't be filled. H1-B visas for 2008 disappeared in half a day. Canadians in certain job fields can get TN visas under the NAFTA agreement.

Currently, people are saying it will take Chinese and Indians 15 years to be eligible for green cards under the quota cap for each country.

I highly doubt that new immigrants are making any dent in RE. More likely tons of speculators.
WetCoaster
Bubble Watcher
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:37 pm

Postby EastSider » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:57 pm

WetCoaster wrote:I highly doubt that new immigrants are making any dent in RE. More likely tons of speculators.


Hmmm.....I'm not sure if I agree with this when it comes to the Eastside RE scene.

First-gen immigrants (that work in MS & other hi-tech companies in the area) prefer homes that are
- Newer (less than 10 years or so)
- Located in a very-good school district (very important factor for most Asians & East-Indians) -- eg: Sammamish, Issaquah

A good % of the buyers of such homes are first-gen immigrants. I notice this almost everytime, when I go to an open-house of such a home.
EastSider
Bubble Bloviator
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Next

Return to Seattle Real Estate

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron