New listing absorption falls to a seven-year low

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The big increase in listings is the first interesting development we’ve seen in the local real estate market in months, so here are a few alternative takes on recent home listing activity.

First up, here’s a chart of new listing absorption. This is a simple look at the ratio of pending sales to new listings. If more homes are going pending in a month than there are being listed, this ratio goes above 100 percent, which is obviously not great for buyers.

King Co. SFH New Listing Absorption Rate

As of May, the absorption metric has dropped to 79 percent—its lowest level since June 2011. Interestingly, the rate was at its all-time highest level just last December at 162 percent. The absorption rate typically hits its lowest point of the year in June or July, so seeing it drop this low this fast is highly unusual.

Keep in mind that the pre-2008 data is not directly comparable, since in July 2008 the NWMLS changed how they define “pending sale” to include more sales.

About a year ago when I first introduced the listing absorption metric, I said:

I suspect that one of the first signs we’ll see of the market softening is when new listing absorption starts to drop, so I’ll be keeping an eye on this.

That’s definitely happening right now, so it will be very interesting to see if this trend continues through the rest of 2018.

Next up: a comparison of total on-market inventory growth through May for each year:

On-Market Inventory Growth Through June

Last December was an all-time low for on-market inventory, so it’s not too surprising that now that inventory is on the rise, this year set the record for the largest percent gain between December and May. Still though, it’s a good sign for buyers that relief may be around the corner.

Next, here’s a yearly comparison of the total number of new listings just in the month of May:

Total New Listings in May: 2000-2017

Only five years since 2000 have seen more single-family homes hit the market in May than we saw this year. It would be interesting to see if there are any specific attributes common among many of the homes that are hitting the market now.

Finally, here’s a broad look at monthly new listings since January 2000:

New Listings 2000-Present

I’m not calling a big turn in the market just yet, but it’s definitely a promising sign. We’ll see how the rest of the year shakes out.

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

155 comments:

  1. 1
    Justme says:

    Looks like maybe certain predictions we’re not so far off after all.

  2. 2
    Matt the Engineer says:

    I don’t know. For that first chart the lows are getting lower most every year since 2012, but the peak highs are getting higher.

    I do think prices will drop this summer, but it feels more like a “Seattle is killing the golden goose!” panic than a bubble popping. Though I suppose one could lead to the other.

  3. 3
    First Time Buyer says:

    The common thing among most of new listings that are hitting the market is nearly 40% are Condo/Townhomes and 40% really high end SFHs (1 million+). Not much of affordable SFHs. This is from my observation on Eastside.

  4. 4
    SDE says:

    It’s dead simple: average price = Total amount of money buyer are paying / total number of homes buyers bought

    Now the 30 yr fixed mortgage rate is around 4.5%, and most likely will hit above 5% next year, that means the cost of money is higher, thus total amount of money a buyer have is lower. The number of buyer is hard to estimate, but my guess is it’s flat or declining, given that anybody that wanted to buy (be it local professional, foreign investor) probably have already bought. So we have total money being flat or slightly declining. Now it comes to how many sellers are going to sell. My speculation is that the extra listings are from investors (local rental owners) that wanted to cash out given that interest rate is rising (so they can put the investment in bond or CD for a pretty good return without the hassle of managing a home) and rent is flat. So it all comes down to how fast the Fed raises interest rate and how many sellers are going to sell. Nevertheless, a price decline is almost inevitable. Still holding my view that 2022 will bottom out until central banks start another round of credit loosening.

  5. 5
    Brian says:

    By First Time Buyer @ 3:

    The common thing among most of new listings that are hitting the market is nearly 40% are Condo/Townhomes and 40% really high end SFHs (1 million+). Not much of affordable SFHs. This is from my observation on Eastside.

    That’s because cheap stuff is all people can afford now. That’s a sign of a peak.

  6. 6

    Interesting map on where drug overdoses occur. Some higher price areas, including Bellevue north of I-90.

    http://content.king5.com/photo/2018/05/09/KING_king_county_drug_death_map_1525897516834_15243239_ver1.0.jpg

    Story on King5’s site.

  7. 7

    And additional evidence that our economy is not as good as what the unemployment numbers would suggest. I would have guessed that the increasing rates were high due to the aging population, but not so.

    Other problems often contribute to suicide risk, such as relationship problems, substance use, or financial or job stress.

    https://www.livescience.com/62764-us-suicide-rates-increase.html

  8. 8
    Justme says:

    RE: Matt the Engineer @ 2

    Let’s look at the headcount tax proposal: About $275/employee/year headcount tax, and it only applies to the about 500 biggest employers in Seattle.

    If that is enough to “kill the golden goose”, as you say, maybe the goose was never golden to begin with. I’ll acknowledge that Amazon is so marginally profitable that an extra $275/employee would indeed take a big bite out of Amazon’s meager profits.

    >>I do think prices will drop this summer, but it feels more like a “Seattle is killing the golden goose!” panic than a bubble popping. Though I suppose one could lead to the other.

    If the headcount tax is causing a panic in the housing market, people are being irrational. What SHOULD be the cause of panic in the housing market is the insane price increases in housing since 2012. $275/year is not even $25/month. Compare that to the typical monthly monthly payment on a house in Seattle, and have a good laugh about how insignificant it is.

    Sure, the Real Estate Industrial Complex (REIC) would love to blame the upcoming bubble burst on the headcount tax proposal. But the truth is that the REIC itself and the incessant bubble-mongering is what is killing the geese, golden or otherwise, in Seattle.

    Reference:
    http://mynorthwest.com/983563/seattle-head-tax-101/?

  9. 9
    David says:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004750401709715457

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 7:

    And additional evidence that our economy is not as good as what the unemployment numbers would suggest. I would have guessed that the increasing rates were high due to the aging population, but not so.

    Other problems often contribute to suicide risk, such as relationship problems, substance use, or financial or job stress.

    https://www.livescience.com/62764-us-suicide-rates-increase.html

  10. 10

    RE: Justme @ 8 – It’s not just the head tax, it’s continuous and repeated hostility to financial success. A continuous, non-thinking process that doesn’t even understand the difference between gross income and net income.

    Stated differently it’s not just about the past and the present, it’s about the stupid anti-business things Seattle will do in the future. If businesses can avoid those unknowns by being elsewhere, they will do that. I purposefully moved out of Seattle and they can too.

    As to connecting that up to the current real estate market though, I think that’s huge stretch. Inventory had to improve at some point and it did so for at least one month. If Seattle’s income tax didn’t create more inventory, the head tax clearly wouldn’t prior to the time jobs were actually lost.

  11. 11

    RE: SDE @ 4
    Sudden Unemployment or Underemployment can Put More Homes Listed

    I’m a skeptic too lately on all data any of the so-called pundits hand me….like where’s the open door homes ya walk in to see with the for sale sign at the entrance? Is it all new homes listed with much higher lending practices and down payments? Maybe I’m Peter crying wolf, maybe I’m not. I see what I see…

  12. 12

    This is from Amazon’s statement after the head tax passed:

    We are disappointed by today’s City Council decision to introduce a tax on jobs. While we have resumed construction planning for Block 18, we remain very apprehensive about the future created by the council’s hostile approach and rhetoric toward larger businesses, which forces us to question our growth here.

    Emphasis supplied.

  13. 13

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 6
    From My Periscope

    The Obamacare Medicaid to all has opened up MASS opioids and Planned Parenthood abortions sucking Medicaid dry on Narcotics/Abortions. Many of the doctors face criminal prosecution for prescribing too much opioids under AG Sessions BTW. Its been a nationwide epidemic for a decade now, we just didn’t want talk/do anything about it under Obama. Planned Parenthood makes big money selling the fetuses to big Pharma…BTW….why don’t they credit that as a payment for the abortion?

  14. 14
    Wile E. Millenial says:

    I was tracking this house to see what it sold for, I was estimating a little under $800k.

    https://www.redfin.com/WA/Seattle/3905-NE-100th-St-98125/home/112904

    A MILLION DOLLARS?

  15. 15
    greg says:

    By Justme @ 8:

    RE: Matt the Engineer @ 2

    Let’s look at the headcount tax proposal: About $275/employee/year headcount tax, and it only applies to the about 500 biggest employers in Seattle.

    If that is enough to “kill the golden goose”, as you say, maybe the goose was never golden to begin with. I’ll acknowledge that Amazon is so marginally profitable that an extra $275/employee would indeed take a big bite out of Amazon’s meager profits.

    >>I do think prices will drop this summer, but it feels more like a “Seattle is killing the golden goose!” panic than a bubble popping. Though I suppose one could lead to the other.

    If the headcount tax is causing a panic in the housing market, people are being irrational. What SHOULD be the cause of panic in the housing market is the insane price increases in housing since 2012. $275/year is not even $25/month. Compare that to the typical monthly monthly payment on a house in Seattle, and have a good laugh about how insignificant it is.

    Sure, the Real Estate Industrial Complex (REIC) would love to blame the upcoming bubble burst on the headcount tax proposal. But the truth is that the REIC itself and the incessant bubble-mongering is what is killing the geese, golden or otherwise, in Seattle.

    Reference:
    http://mynorthwest.com/983563/seattle-head-tax-101/?

    The employee tax is NOTHING, it is just noise and has no material impact on Amazon’s earnings. @300 x 50K is a nothing , nothing at all. You guys are talking about 15 million a year .

    Stop and think 15 million is less than Amazon is spending on soda pop and coffee. people on this forum are whining and crying over nothing. Amazon does not want Seattle to show other cities that they don’t have to simply bend over every time a corp makes a demand or threatens to leave due to a minor change in taxes.

    Remember folks, MSFT has been paying a similar tax to REDMOND for a very long time and it has not stopped them expanding and reinvesting in the area…..

  16. 16
    uwp says:

    By Justme @ 8:

    I’ll acknowledge that Amazon is so marginally profitable that an extra $275/employee would indeed take a big bite out of Amazon’s meager profits.

    Amazon made over 3 billion dollars last year in profit (on over 177 billion in sales).
    $275/head on Seattle employees would be roughly 12 million dollars.

    Do you think less than half of one percent of profits is a big bite?

    Hopefully readers know by now to ignore your musings on Amazon.

  17. 17

    By greg @ 15:

    Remember folks, MSFT has been paying a similar tax to REDMOND for a very long time and it has not stopped them expanding and reinvesting in the area…..

    But as has been pointed out here repeatedly, it’s a smaller tax and there’s no B&O tax in that city (for some reason).

    And as has been pointed out, it’s not just this tax, it’s the attitude of Seattle government toward business. Why would they want to be where they are hated rather than appreciated?

  18. 18
    N says:

    Seems very quiet around here, and the chatter that is here since Tim’s last post almost entirely not about the data Tim has presented….Meanwhile it looks like we will end the week at the highest standing inventory since 2016.

    Amazon and the head tax – Sure Amazon is making a profit now, BUT this tax applies to firm’s who are in the red too, since it is pegged on revenue. If your revenue is $55k a day your paying it. low margin grocery stores, car dealers, you name it.

  19. 19

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 12
    It Must Be a Horrifying Awakening

    To suddenly find out you’ve been an Open Border Party member rooting for Amazon for Seattle….then ya switch to hating Amazon….a NWO alright….LOL

  20. 20
    Nicole says:

    RE: Wile E. Millenial @ 14

    I saw that house- very nice, and I thought it might go for 850-900, just because of good condition and great yard (and garage had a lot of potential for turning into another master) but that’s a lot more than I guessed too!

  21. 21
    Blake says:

    By David @ 9:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004750401709715457

    Oh yeah… Just LOOK at the the improvement in jobs under Trump! Truly UNremarkable. (Blowhard)
    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iplXPMXuJGYw/v1/600x-1.png

  22. 22
    uwp says:

    By N @ 18:

    Seems very quiet around here, and the chatter that is here since Tim’s last post almost entirely not about the data Tim has presented….Meanwhile it looks like we will end the week at the highest standing inventory since 2016.

    I dunno, I look at the charts that Tim posted, and rather than seeing some oncoming horror, I see a return to some sense of normalcy.

    Sure it sounds scary to say “Most New Listings in May Since 2007!” But once you actually look at it, we are right in line with the average amount of May listings from 2000-2008. It was the absolute lack of inventory the last 2-3 years that was the outlier.

    The market needs the inventory. When I look at my neighborhood (98103) there are still only 12 SFH under 800k, and only 1 that has been sitting on the market for more than 14 days. (And it’s a townhouse that is in the system as a SFH.)

  23. 23

    RE: Nicole @ 20RE: Wile E. Millenial @ 14 – Of the one-story and one-story with basement listings within about 3/4 mile, selling within 30 days of the list date, they are going for almost 15% over the list price. The ones talking longer than 30 days sold for about 5% under the original list (and also under revised list).

    While not the complete picture it does indicate that in this market there is much less risk to underpricing than over-pricing. If the one had been priced at say $950,000 it might still be sitting, waiting for a price reduction. It will be interesting to see how agents adjust if inventory continues its rise.

    Numbers from NWMLS sources, but not compiled by or guaranteed by the NWMLS.

  24. 24
    Blake says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 12:

    This is from Amazon’s statement after the head tax passed:

    We are disappointed by today’s City Council decision to introduce a tax on jobs. While we have resumed construction planning for Block 18, we remain very apprehensive about the future created by the council’s hostile approach and rhetoric toward larger businesses, which forces us to question our growth here.

    Emphasis supplied.

    What the f*ck do you expect Amazon to say Kary? You really want to start citing corporate press releases as TRUTH?
    And as for your previous: “repeated hostility to financial success.”
    Yes, any tax that hits wealthy people or corporations is “hostility” to success! I guess we should aim taxes at the unsuccessful, poor and middle-class eh?

    The tax is tiny… a fraction of 1%..! It is virtually nothing and just an opportunity for the wealthy to clutch their pearls and scream about being “violated!”

  25. 25

    By Blake @ 24:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 12:

    This is from Amazon’s statement after the head tax passed:

    We are disappointed by today’s City Council decision to introduce a tax on jobs. While we have resumed construction planning for Block 18, we remain very apprehensive about the future created by the council’s hostile approach and rhetoric toward larger businesses, which forces us to question our growth here.

    Emphasis supplied.

    What the f*ck do you expect Amazon to say Kary? You really want to start citing corporate press releases as TRUTH?

    I was quoting it as support for my prior statement of how business thinks. That it’s not just me who thinks Seattle is hostile to successful entities.

    And as for your previous: “repeated hostility to financial success.”
    Yes, any tax that hits wealthy people or corporations is “hostility” to success! I guess we should aim taxes at the unsuccessful, poor and middle-class eh?

    Seattle’s income tax was not needed. It was expressly a tax in case Trump cut their funding in the future, but in reality it was a tax created solely to create a test case to overturn existing state case law on income taxes.

    Seattle’s head tax was passed before they had a plan on how to spend the money.

    They are not creating taxes because they need the money, they are passing taxes because they hate successful companies and hate rich people. But because they are so damn stupid, the head tax hits companies that don’t necessarily make a lot of money. And because they are so damn stupid it means fewer lower wage people will be employed in Seattle in the future (it won’t hit the high end as hard).

    So no, this is not about needing money. This is about Seattle trying to set social policy.

    https://www.geekwire.com/2018/head-tax-redefining-moment-seattle-start-larger-discussion-councilmember-says/

    The tax is tiny… a fraction of 1%..! It is virtually nothing and just an opportunity for the wealthy to clutch their pearls and scream about being “violated!”

    I don’t know how many times I have to say it’s not about this one tax. Would a different language help?

  26. 26

    From the Geekwire article I just linked.

    Speaking at Seattle City Club’s Civic Cocktail on Wednesday alongside Seattle Chamber of Commerce CEO Marilyn Strickland, [City Council Member} González said she believes the head tax debate is the first step in a larger discussion about social issues like income inequality and systemic racism not just in Seattle, but also across the state and the nation.

    “When I think about this issue [the head tax], I think about the environment as a whole, not just here in our bubble in Seattle and King County but how we as a community and as a nation really are struggling with what I think is a little bit of a moral crisis in terms of how will we define ourselves,” González said.

    She continued, “And I think it’s fair to say that this is a redefining moment in the city of Seattle, and my goal is that we can define ourselves in a way that will continue to be true to what I believe Seattle’s progressive values should be and ought to be and have always been.”

    It’s not about the money!

  27. 27
    N says:

    Well at least Seattle wasn’t #1.

    https://www.nationalmortgagenews.com/slideshow/12-overvalued-real-estate-markets-in-danger-of-a-housing-bubble

    Among the top 50 markets, 26 were considered overvalued and only seven were undervalued. Expanding the data out to the top 100 markets, 40 were overvalued, while 32 were at value and 28 were undervalued.

    CoreLogic defines an overvalued market as one where home prices are at least 10% above long-term, sustainable levels. Conversely, an undervalued market is one that is at least 10% below sustainable levels.

  28. 28
    Lars says:

    RE: Justme @ 8

    Agree w/all of this. AMZN has a hugely generous sign on bonus program – e.g. something like a years worth of annual salary and in some instances two years to be paid out respectively after you survive yr 1, 2. Most recently, Sr People have taken those jobs and hung in there just for a year or two and gotten a quick pop to easily off-set housing or college for the kids…once those are paid for, they run for their lives from what they told me was an extremely difficult culture…more so than MSFT. The Head Tax is nothing in the scheme of things and could easily be made up by making a teeny tweak in the annual compensation. No one there would feel it.

    The sad thing is the city will not utilize the extra funds well.

  29. 29
    Lars says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 13

    That’s right, drug addiction is big business for the medical industrial complex…War On Drugs…NOT as the abuse funds highly profitable and sick enterprise. That’s why like “the cure for cancer” has made little progress on balance from the 70’s forward.

  30. 30
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 12:

    This is from Amazon’s statement after the head tax passed:

    We are disappointed by today’s City Council decision to introduce a tax on jobs. While we have resumed construction planning for Block 18, we remain very apprehensive about the future created by the council’s hostile approach and rhetoric toward larger businesses, which forces us to question our growth here.

    Emphasis supplied.

    it’s shakedown kary. they know enough people will fall for it. it will very marginally effect jobs. would you rather an income tax instead? almost any way to raise taxes to help the homeless would be decried as costing jobs. rampant homeless is not a job creator.

    If Seattle city council is so awful why has Seattle boomed so much? why do you continually bash the city council but almost completely ignore Trump’s actual destructive tariffs and etc.? Trump’s tariffs could cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    I blame any downturn on Trump’s tariffs. People are scared to buy homes because they are afraid his trade war will cost them their jobs and homes(obvious sarcasm).

  31. 31
    David says:

    You’re going to need another estrogen shot after this fact slap pfft:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004750401709715457

    RE: pfft @ 30

  32. 32
    Blake says:

    By David @ 31:

    You’re going to need another estrogen shot after this fact slap pfft:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004750401709715457

    RE: pfft @ 30

    Except that what Trump tweeted wasn’t true… yeah, imagine that!
    https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iplXPMXuJGYw/v1/600x-1.png
    (What kind of a dolt sees a tweet from this pathological liar and thinks it’s the truth??)

  33. 33

    By pfft @ 30:

    If Seattle city council is so awful why has Seattle boomed so much?

    Wow, you don’t actually think it’s because of them, as opposed to in spite of them, do you?

    I am not generally anti-government—one of those who constantly complains about taxes being too high or government being inefficient. I was critical of Renton’s ordinance which fined the stores (the victim) when criminals stole their shopping carts, but that’s about the only thing that comes to mind locally.

    But Seattle is special–it has the most incompetent government around, and has for decades. Despite that though, lots of good business people locally have started a lot of good companies. And that is why Seattle is booming.

    Out of curiosity, what do you think Seattle has done well? It’s not having a competent HR department. Not managing retirement assets well. Not having a good DOT. Not finding a new bank. Not investing in or running a bike rental company.

  34. 34
    uwp says:

    In news related to Amazon HQ2:

    Politicians offer incentives to companies/sports teams not because the economics of the deal work out in the city’s favor, but because participating in the bribe schemes make them look “active on jobs.”

    In survey experiments, Mr. Jensen and Mr. Malesky have found that people are more likely to say they’d vote for a governor when told the official helped secure a hypothetical thousand-job manufacturing plant. Independent voters even prefer a governor who offers generous tax incentives to score such a plant over a governor who secures investment without ponying up. These results suggest that politicians pick up votes by offering giveaways, whether they land companies or not.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/upshot/why-cities-cant-stop-poaching-from-one-another.html

  35. 35
    David says:

    When I hear Seattleites grousing about incentivizing job growth, I conflate them with porch-sitting Southern Redneck Economists. The kind of bumpkin who knows for sure that making life easy for some carpetbagger industrialist demands he run his mouth.

    The kind of loser mentality Obama represented in its fullness.

    $1k/employee in taxes x 0 jobs = 0. Tax breaks work. Giving up taxes for jobs that don’t happen otherwise is the ultimate false flag.

    Alabama gave HUGE tax breaks to Mercedes 25 years ago and NOW Alabama is a massive automotive manufacturing hub. Boeing is in AL, Honda, Mazda, Kia, and all those subs as well.

    Oh and AirBus is in AL now also.

    https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-04-03/how-alabama-becoming-auto-capital-south

    RE: uwp @ 34

  36. 36
    wreckingbull says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 33:

    By pfft @ 30:

    If Seattle city council is so awful why has Seattle boomed so much?

    Out of curiosity, what do you think Seattle has done well? It’s not having a competent HR department. Not managing retirement assets well. Not having a good DOT. Not finding a new bank. Not investing in or running a bike rental company.

    It all depends on perspective. If you are Ed Murray, Seattle gave you a nice, cushy, six-figure retirement for life. I’d say that’s pretty cool!

  37. 37
    David says:

    For old house remodels that need to be tightened up., this is really really interesting. Could replace the need to open walls or put in foam and allow cheaper insulation to be used instead:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTdrVESqJg

  38. 38
  39. 39
    uwp says:

    By David @ 35:

    Alabama gave HUGE tax breaks to Mercedes 25 years ago and NOW Alabama is a massive automotive manufacturing hub. Boeing is in AL, Honda, Mazda, Kia, and all those subs as well.

    Oh and AirBus is in AL now also.

    Ah yes… Noted “Great Place to Live” Alabama.

    The last 25 years gave been INCREDIBLE to them.

    Why, with all the benefits that came with offering tax benefits to large corporations, they have risen all the way to… *squints* … 46th out of 50!

  40. 40
    David says:

    RE: uwp @ 39 – That is a misleading stat and veiled racism.

  41. 41
    uwp says:

    RE: David @ 40 – Do you honestly believe that Alabama is better now than it was 25 years ago (in comparison to the other 49)?

  42. 42

    RE: Blake @ 21
    Now You Complain About Not Using the U6 BLS Unemployment Numbers Instead of the More Cheerful U3 Obama Used Too

    IOWs include under-employed, P/T and give-ups in the unemployment rate too….its funny how the U6 is suddenly important since Trump was elected to you Open Border Party folks, it wasn’t when Obama was in power….LOL

    How about the truth…..we are still destroyed with no manufacturing and mostly service economy with slave wages….it takes time to hire our Manufacturing Engineering back and bring back machines and skills to fix this NWO establishment mess. At least the U3 is going down recently/rapidly too…positive economic hope has gone up exponentially BTW too. Stocks sky rocketing without Obama’s Quantitative Easing Welfare to Banks too…

    Admit it.

  43. 43
    Matt the Engineer says:

    What @10 said.

    Expanding: When Amazon came to Seattle they specifically chose not to sprawl out like Microsoft – they built a campus right in the heart of the city, adding jobs and life to an area that was warehouses and parking lots. They added not only tens of thousands of jobs, but most are *high paying* jobs, and the type of work that adds even more jobs from other companies nearby (not to mention Facebook and Google following them here).

    But instead of allowing the upzones required to house all of these new employees, the Council played at the edges – *downzoning* small lot homes, banning micro-apartments, adding taxes to building homes in the city (MHA), etc. Amazon finally realized there was a limit to the growth they’d allow here and announces HQ2 – 50k jobs going to *some other city* since there’s no room for them here. What does the Council do? The head tax. Yes it’s small for Amazon, but it’s 10x the last one we tried. And it will absolutely push other companies looking to locate in our region out to the suburbs.

    So step back and ask what all of Seattle’s NIMBYs got for their complaining and blocking backyard homes and writing letters to the council: massive short-term gain. Housing prices raising hundreds of thousands each. But it’s amazingly short-sighted. Once they succeed in actually stopping growth then business will head elsewhere. And the dominos will start falling…

    I hope they really mean it when the NIMBYs talk about the good old days. The good old days when their homes were cheap and empty, and jobs were scarce and low-paying.

    [/soapbox]

  44. 44
    David says:

    RE: uwp @ 41 – Economically it certainly – beyond all shadow of a doubt is.

  45. 45

    RE: pfft @ 30
    Last I Heard a Lot of Grief Over Pig and Potato Exporters in America

    Speaking of a tiny amount of the American GDP…pigs and potatoes are just as meaningless to our economy as a dinky head tax is to Amazon…

    Its all manufacturing jobs with high salaries that tariffs fight for….why is that wrong? Look at the deficit numbers, not your political agendas.

  46. 46
    Paulie says:

    Amazon’s impact on the local economy cannot be overstated. The population increase in from transplanted workers? The influx of local cash on-hand (to those same workers) from lucrative stock options vesting? You better believe it increased demand and prices.

    Amazon’s employee base has about tripled in less than 5 years or so. It also has performance targets to reduce the bottom 6% of its staff this year (it calls this metric unregretted attrition). Performance reviews were given in April. Those reviews made it clear to many employees — more than just the 6% target — that they would either be managed out or their lives at Amazon would become very uncomfortable if they didn’t improve. Often times improvement means, working 90 hours instead of 80, or agreeing with everything your manager says even when it is all wrong. It’s a super subjective process. Many of these people either get laid off, or find jobs outside Amazon. I know several already who have done both.

    The fact that listings spiked unusually high in May after Amazon’s April performance review in which it put 10% of its very large and wealthy staff (many of whom started at AMZN and moved here in the last 3-4 years, and bought homes recently with the f___-you money from their RSUs) on notice that their futures at Amazon are either non-existent, limited, or very painful… I’m surprised there aren’t more listings. Also, any Amazon employee hired in the last 4 years will sees their pay fall at the end of their vesting schedule, because their comp is heavily based on restricted stock units (RSU). Personally, over 60% of my income comes from stocks, not salary, and my income will fall in 2020 as a result of vesting schedules. I personally would rather leave before getting all the RSUs, because I have better leverage to negotiate on offers with new companies.

    Add the Seattle head tax debate to it, and as a transplant, honestly, I do not feel very welcome here. Kshama Sawant is not holding signs saying “Save the Homeless,” she holds signs saying “Tax Amazon.” Transplants like me mutter to ourselves, “Gee, they really hate us.” I never wanted to be the problem or displacing the “locals” (who displaced so many generations of locals themselves, right down to the Natives), I just wanted to get out of the shitty Midwest flyover state with no jobs that I came from. I love Seattle! But this is a very lonely town for a transplant. Suddenly the government feels like it is against us even. Lol. And can you imagine if you got a performance review from your employer (the main draw to moving here) that made it clear you had no future at the company? It’s just too much. Now, what is 10% of Amazon’s 50K employee base in the area who were given such a review in April? 5K. I am not on Amazon’s ***** list but the fact that my comp will decline after my vesting schedule runs its course and the overall climate, I am seriously considering going somewhere that wants me. If Amazon piled on wit the gov’t and “local” population in not wanting me here… yeah, I’d sell my house here and cash out the gains. No question.

  47. 47
    The Tim says:

    RE: Paulie @ 46 – Interesting observations. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s certainly a large component of the increase. It is worth noting though that the current increase seems to have started gaining steam as early as March. In the daily listings chart below you can see that the 2018 trend started to diverge from the three most recent years back in early March, and the number of listings on the market has been growing faster since then.

  48. 48
    Paulie says:

    For sure. That said, the unregretted attrition target was set in January. Managers were advised to put their employees on a “development list,” which is a precursor to the dreaded “PIP” (performance improvement plan). 10% were put on the development list (with an expectation that 60% of those would be fired/quit, hence the 6% unregretted attrition target). Some were told as early as January, some were not, though it became clear in April where you stood. It’s all just corporate theater. April was the inflection point that went from some (maybe a little over half) of employees with a target on their back knowing they had a target on their back, to all employees with a target on their back learning of it.

    I seriously doubt there is one reason or this is the one reason. But it is a factor that I am 100% certain is making up at least a few individual data points in your overall data set.

  49. 49
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Matt the Engineer @ 43 – Head tax is just one of many Seattle’s anti-business policies. The Washington State Convention Center expansion plan was finally approved after the developer ponied up $80m to ‘benefit’ Seattle’s socialist/progressive causes. I’m certain that Amazon is subjected to similar shakedown on their building projects.

    Seattle is doomed if the liberals/conservatives do not take back the city from the socialists/progressives.

  50. 50
    David says:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 36 – When someone says Ed Murray – I hear banjos playing. I’m also reminded that Seattle has not gotten rid of Murray’s enablers and co-conspirators who sought to preemptively defame and destroy any subsequent accuser.

    Seattle has a taint to it now that cannot be washed off. I believe Durkan was one of those tainters. Would you want to be known as a company HQ’d in a place that allows such behavior?

    I see this as a seriously underappreciated and withering force for the future here.

  51. 51

    RE: Paulie @ 46 – I’ve heard the Silicon Valley is worse–to the extent that the tech workers are hated by large segments of the general population. I don’t think it’s reached that point here to the same extent–but it was a topic covered by Anthony Bordain (RIP) in his Seattle piece.

    As to the “Tax Amazon” sign, that’s just Sawant’s way to sucker her sheep. It’s some 500 employers that are affected, but she just picks one so that her non-thinking ignorant supporters will rally around her and support the tax. I wouldn’t take it personally. She won’t hate you until you’re much more successful–a net worth of at least 8 figures.

    And on the bright side, be thankful that the Seattle City Council isn’t trying to help you!

  52. 52
    Justme says:

    Today, the KC SFH inventory has surpassed the PEAK of last year’s inventory

    09.16.2017 01:00 3013
    06.08.2018 18:00 3057

    This year we will soon get to test my hypothesis that inventory has been low because sideline/potential sellers think prices will go up more (because of the bubble-monger propaganda). The roaches will soon be scurrying for the exits, and the feedback loop will get started.

  53. 53
    David says:

    RE: Paulie @ 46 – 6% UA every year? If so, that is an almost 20% turnover rate every 3 years.

    Though I will say my wife’s company had a higher turnover rate than this the past few years. But that was just terrible management.

  54. 54
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 51 – I have spent a fair amount of time there in my profession. In my opinion, the anti-tech sentiment is worse in San Francisco proper, but actually not as bad in the valley itself.

  55. 55
  56. 56
    Matt P says:

    By Eastsider @ 49:

    RE: Matt the Engineer @ 43 – Head tax is just one of many Seattle’s anti-business policies. The Washington State Convention Center expansion plan was finally approved after the developer ponied up $80m to ‘benefit’ Seattle’s socialist/progressive causes. I’m certain that Amazon is subjected to similar shakedown on their building projects.

    Seattle is doomed if the liberals/conservatives do not take back the city from the socialists/progressives.

    And he should have ponied up a lot more. The convention center is a waste of space and bleeds money, yet we’re going to screw up traffic even more for several years to expand it.

  57. 57
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Our good friend supply and our other good friend demand!!!!

    Just wait till all those baby boomers realize the prices not going so high anymore….

    Time to sell baby!

    Get on it non-core Seattle folks. There’s an H1b waiting for you, but not for long….

  58. 58
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Paulie @ 46
    Paulie,

    I wish you all the best. I hope your getting to do something interesting/fun at the new-Walmart old-Amazon and not just hoping to avoid the bezos “?”.

    IMHO folks at Amazon deserve a better company. Seattle deserves a better company. And the world deserves a better company.

    Thanks for the candid report.

  59. 59
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 58

    Paying less after 4 years on the job?
    Seriously?

    Have you considered punching bezos in the face? He’s working out these days, but he’d still go down hard.

  60. 60
    Eastsider says:

    By Matt P @ 56:

    And he should have ponied up a lot more. The convention center is a waste of space and bleeds money, yet we’re going to screw up traffic even more for several years to expand it.

    The convention center bleeds money? Source please. You are too lazy to read the publicly available financial statement. Why should anyone take you seriously?

  61. 61

    A New Starbucks Wake-up Delight That Folks Will Gladly Line Up in Hoards to Pay $10/Mug For???

    Seattle needs a spark of innovation investment and Starbucks came to mind. Hades, we’re a Sanctuary City anyway that doesn’t obey the laws….invent our own law on edible coffee products at Starbucks [age 21 and above]….mmmmm…..the coffee tastes great ;-)

    https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/next-level-wake-bake-coffee-strains?utm_campaign=Roost&utm_source=Roost&utm_medium=push

  62. 62
  63. 63
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 62 – Speaking of siding….

    I told the contractors installing my windows they had better make damn sure they double and triple measure their cutouts because my siding is clear smooth 1/2″ net by 10″ Cedar. Builders & remodeling contractors would know that is rare. The siding is in phenominal shape for being 30 + years old and smooth, not rough cut exposed. They don’t make this anymore. The prior owner built a good portion of the home themselves and made some good decisions.

    So, of course the contractor mis cut. I said they don’t make it anymore. I told them to call Blackstock at the time to see if they could mill it. Blackstock said not without a huge expense.

    My neighbor’s house was sided with TN Cedar Siding and is a 13 yr old home. The siding is failing in areas already, especially on the South side.

  64. 64

    Ouch–sorry about your siding. Mine is almost 50 years old, and not as thick as I would like it to be, but still in good shape.

    As to your neighbor, was it poorly painted originally? That seems like really short life unless maybe the Cedar out of TN sucks.

  65. 65
    uwp says:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 59:

    Paying less after 4 years on the job?
    Seriously?

    Paulie is making it sound worse than it is.

    What typically happens at Amazon is you get hired, get a decent hiring bonus (which you have to pay back if you quit within X number of years), then you also get RSUs (shares of stock) that vest over the next 4 years. But the vesting schedule is back heavy, so year 1 you might only get 5% of the shares, but in year 4 you get 40%. Also, keep in mind the RSUs are granted when you get hired, so if our transplanted friend Paulie is looking at a lower salary in 2020, that would point to hire date in 2015. And AMZN has gone on incredible run the last few years. Those shares are now 4 times higher than Paulie’s start date. What originally looked like maybe 25-50k in stock in 2019 is now more like 75-150k. So yes, it is unlikely that Amazon will increase your salary extra, just because you got hired before the stock went on an insane run.

  66. 66
    uwp says:

    By Paulie @ 46:

    Add the Seattle head tax debate to it, and as a transplant, honestly, I do not feel very welcome here.

    Transplants like me mutter to ourselves, “Gee, they really hate us.”

    Suddenly the government feels like it is against us even. Lol.

    I am not on Amazon’s ***** list but the fact that my comp will decline after my vesting schedule runs its course and the overall climate, I am seriously considering going somewhere that wants me.

    If Amazon piled on wit the gov’t and “local” population in not wanting me here… yeah, I’d sell my house here and cash out the gains. No question.

    Do you think you will make a million dollars for all the pain and suffering in your 4 years here? or just 3/4 of a million?

  67. 67
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Paulie @ 46

    “Gee, they really hate us.”

    It’s not you Paulie, it’s the bezos.

  68. 68
    whatsmyname says:

    By David @ 55:

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/08/seattle-cracks-down-on-renters-free-speech-and-common-sense-good-luck-trying-to-rent-apartment.html

    Subtitle: Attorney for Rentberry explains why the city’s moratorium on online rental auction sites like Rentberry, (one year, or possibly until their struck down “first come” rules more permanently bite the dust) is the end of free speech in the USA.

    A story with no heroes, but incredible feats of molehill to mountain creation. Having been on both sides of the rental transaction, but never with an online auction; I mourn that I have never known free speech.

  69. 69
    whatsmyname says:

    By Justme @ 52:

    Today, the KC SFH inventory has surpassed the PEAK of last year’s inventory

    09.16.2017 01:00 3013
    06.08.2018 18:00 3057

    This year we will soon get to test my hypothesis that inventory has been low because sideline/potential sellers think prices will go up more (because of the bubble-monger propaganda). The roaches will soon be scurrying for the exits, and the feedback loop will get started.

    Well let’s hope so. If we’ve got 1,000 people a week coming into King County, we’re going to need some inventory. I mean they can’t all be aspiring to live in a pricey high-rise shoebox. Right?

    But here’s the rub. Who are these roaches? Are they baby boomers just looking for another place in the area? That sounds kind of zero-sum. Retirees chasing the sun? It seems like that has never stopped, but suppose there could be a few who waited a little longer. How about diversifying investors? Will they be excited to compete for yield with $1.5T in throw-offs from new corporate tax breaks now working their way to individuals through the stock buybacks?

    Here’s a funny thing for you. Although residential mortgage rates have been going up, commercial spreads have never been lower. Do you think there might be some equalization on the way? What about BlackRock who has already securitized (sold) the future rents to someone who might have a say about selling out those rent generators?

    I mean, sure, we could get an inventory pop of maybe 1,000 due to small time, aging landlords willing to take the capital gains hit in looking to get liquid. Maybe 1,000 in people who moved away, but kept that previously appreciating house just to get the last bit. But how much further do we get? Will we even get up to 2005 inventory? How desperate will these people be to sell? Seriously, what kind of information do you have to counter all these things the bubble mongers will be bringing up?

  70. 70
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 62 – I know artificial stucco has improved dramatically since the 80s and 90s when it started being used on residential. BUT I was lead counsel on EIFS systems that lacked a proper drainage plane.

    It really tainted my view of those fake stucco systems. I’m suffering from negative confirmation bias. Joe Lstiburek is a famous envelope designer whose seminars I’ve attended in the past. His strategies change a little but I think he has some great ideas.

    I’m seriously looking at this system for a Florida house build supposed to last 500 years: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8i-93ABo3I&t=3s

  71. 71
    Paulie says:

    RE: uwp @ 65

    You are correct. I started in 2014, and got re-upped nicely in 2017 for 2018 and 2019, so that 2019 (my Year 5) will be the biggest year yet. 2020 is the first year it falls, because now RSUs have taken total comp (TC) beyond the max of my pay band, by a lot. Great problem to have! I’m not saying it is good or bad, I am providing insights into what impact this could have on the stock market — a high volume of transplant and highly skilled workers flush with cash, much of it windfall cash, who will soon see their annual incomes decline (relative to inflated levels that they have probably been getting used to), plus new people moving in all the time. I do not believe we are in a bubble or something really bad will happen, though my post could be interpreted as that. I think Seattle is becoming more of a transient city, like London or NYC where people may move to work for a few years and then leave. I also think way more people will stay than leave. But the pattern will increase volatility in metrics like new listing absorption.

    Back to your comments on Amazon’s compensation model. Amazon is well known to pay only about 70% of elite tech industry standard. And tech outpays every other industry, and only really exists in a few cities in the world, of which Seattle is one. Companies like the other FANG companies, and Microsoft across Lake Washington, pay 30-40% more on average. Some double their money. And most studies show switching employers is the most reliable way to get raises and promotions nowadays anyway. Amazon underpays and people get to have the experience on their resume. Somewhat like an entry-level gig at a Big 4 accounting firm or a residency in a hospital, to a much lesser extent. I interviewed with another tech company offered me a 10% increase on my current Amazon comp, which is currently $310K (and the band for my role tops out around $250K).

    Amazon has pros and cons and I’ve really enjoyed most of my experience working there,
    and if other employers in other cities offered challenges as exciting with less hours, or more exciting challenges with same hours, and the same or more pay, I would highly consider relocating again and many thousands of current Amazonians in Seattle would as well. Also, Amazon truly is Walmart on steroids, but driving retail supply chain efficiency and customer adoption at multiples of Walmart plus thriving in several distinct industries beyond retail. It is an undeniable juggernaut that will only grow.

    I picked Amazon after closely studying their culture, and once I was in the inside, it was clear that this boulder was rolling down the hill and cannot be stopped. Amazon is so entrenched in people’s lives now, that it is a de facto public utilities company and a shadow government already, an inescapable fact of life (that customers happen to love). It has easily passed its inflection point where its global market dominance in multiple industries feels inevitable. It may not beat Apple to being the first $1T company, but it will certainly be close behind and the first $2T company. People will continue to move here in huge waves. Sorry to break it to the anti-Amazon crowd but it is an obvious truth from the inside that this is a “JOIN US OR DIE” situation. As long as the company succeeds and is located in Seattle, Seattle will grow, home prices will increase, young talented and motivated people will inhabit the city. Detroit would trade its problems for Seattle’s problems 10 out of 10 times. It won’t get the chance but the individuals in that city can make the choice at individual levels like I did. The rest of the country kind of sucks for gifted problem solvers who want to work with other gifted problem solvers instead of managing and Arby’s. This city is the fucking tits, has great economy with great paying jobs taken by super smart people, and great ecology (try a bone chilling winter with the Great Lakes lake effect snow and sub-zero temperatures for months straight). It will grow for those reasons. Every time I look at San Francisco’s prices, and what ransom people are willing to pay to exist there, I see Seattle has a lot of room to go up and will go up. Again, bigger volatility in some metrics and seasonal peaks and troughs, more volatility and turnover of properties based on the young transplant population, opportunities to realize great gains even after owning for only a year or two, Amazon’s insistence on employee turnover with regular layoff quotas and opportunities for employees to get raises by going to other tech companies (that only exist in a couple cities though, Seattle being one).

    No comment on HQ2.

    And yes, as I’m closing out Year 4, I did clear a little over a million in those 4 years. I’m less than 10 years out of undergrad with no master’s, and very few cities give that opportunity to literally tens of thousands of new people every year. Like, count-‘em-on-your-hands numbers of cities.

  72. 72
    David says:

    RE: Paulie @ 71 – IMO, Walmart is a lot more important than Amazon is to the fabric of the country. I’ve been to both corporate offices in the past. Walmart stock was super high flying at one time and for many years. And Walmart seems determined to make a lot of headway while keeping a firm hold on physical real-world shopping. I think the real danger to Amazon is that brick and mortar dies out too much and undermines the ability for people to know what they want to buy – or why. Are people really going to comparatively browse alternatives by ordering every version of an item from Amazon.

    At one time Sears had all the hubris, then it was Walmart (still is in a lot of ways), then eBay (and eBay generally offers better deals than Amazon), and now it is Amazon.

    NO ONE could imagine Sears going away when I was a little kid. The mean will eventually catch up to Amazon too. Bank that cash and invest it.

    But I do not see how Amazon is dominant long-term relative to other offerings with the huge entry barriers it presents to shoppers requiring: 1) a computer, 2) Internet Service, 3) credit cards, 4) and having to pony up for each delivery or subscribe for $119.

    But who cares as long as their employees save their money for the inevitable requirement the market makes for Amazon to become profitable. Also, sell your stock ASAP and diversify your holdings.

  73. 73
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Paulie @ 71

    Paulie,

    Your vitals have been off. Please have a cocktail and think for second. “JOIN US OR DIE” is not cool bro. In the country of the USA, historically, we don’t stand for that shit.

    MS which has always been a much better overall company (real research, giving $ to UW etc.) faced monopoly charges.

    What do you think is going to happy to your new age Walmart? They are going down. Punch bezos in face. Take your money and run. Work for a good company that has something more to offer other than cheap ***** made somewhere else.

  74. 74

    RE: softwarengineer @ 13
    I Observed Yesterday at the Kent Planned Parenthood Parking Lot

    There were usually a lot of protestors….something happened [they were gone]? All I know is there were hoards [10-15 visible in their full gear too]….of Kent Police responding to something near the Planned Parenthood facility. Kent looked like Philadelphia crime areas yesterday.

  75. 75

    RE: Paulie @ 71
    Good Morning Paulie

    I too occasionally shop at Walmart…its close and and a Emerson LED 32″ flat screen with a perfect picture goes for $110 and its not Black Friday….for $10 more ya get the extended 2 yr warranty….

    Home depot has the best $29 trimmer for the money….not Walmart….

    JCP [the company on the verge of bankruptcy] wholesale clothes are much better quality and less costly than Walmart….etc, etc…

    K-mart has the best price leather shoes….IOWs, shop price,,,,its your hard earned money…

  76. 76
    Justme says:

    RE: whatsmyname @ 69 –

    >>If we’ve got 1,000 people a week coming into King County, we’re going to need some inventory.

    How many times is whatsmyname going to repeat that lie above? I refer you, dear reader, to the following:

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2017/07/07/nwmls-falsely-inflates-seattles-population-growth/

    Also, even half the number (550/week) is most likely an overestimation, in part because Washington OIF
    uses the BIFF methodology (Built-Is-Filled-by-Fiat). The true number for 2016 was more likely in the ballpark of 275/week or 1100/month.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2017/07/07/nwmls-falsely-inflates-seattles-population-growth/#comment-263707

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2017/06/06/nwmls-may-grand-slam-home-salespeople/comment-page-2/#comment-263464

    Oh, and I did mention that completed housing units in 2015 was 22,000 and about the same in 2016?

    Whatsmyname is not worth discussing with. He is a proven serial liar. Notice also that he almost never posts anything except to attack me. So I guess he is a different handle for one of the regulars? Someone could probably figure it out. Anyway, whatsmyname is not worth discussing with. I will just debunk him on occasion.

  77. 77
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Justme @ 76 – Thanks, bro. If we’re going to tag team these bubble mongers, it is best we don’t look like we are working together.

    You definitely helped me with some numbers. It’s not 1,000 per week in King County; it’s 1,100 in King, Pierce, and Snohomish. So that helps. But we can make the case that it is less than that.

    One thing though, if we’re going to build our whole case on weakness of the build-it-and-it-will-be-filled methodology, should we be sure that it is currently wrong? I mean, if we make multiple citations, but they all go back to that one thing, it seems like our whole case rests on the one thing, and we couldn’t think of any others. I just went through a pretty fair sized development in Covington of all places. There are three builders in there. Almost all the houses under construction have sold signs, and there are probably as many more unstarted lots with sold signs. I mean, do you know of somewhere where the houses are just sitting? I could really use that information.

    Also, if we debunk the state growth data, does that just shift people’s attention the the census data, (which is actually higher)?

    Thanks for your continued good work. When did you realize that the market was overblown, and it would be best to sit it out for the correction? 2015? 2012? 2007? 2005? Inquiring minds want to know.

  78. 78
    Ram's_horn says:

    Hi,
    If buyer is knowledgeable enough to write the offer and handle the transaction, can buyer use the NWMLS P&S form-21 with out using the buyer’s agent?. Will the listing agent accept the offer directly from buyer on NWMLS form-21?.

  79. 79
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Ram’s_horn @ 78 – Why would you do that? You won’t get any of the 3%/6% commissions. If you use a Redfin agent, for example, at least you are getting back part of the 3% commissions. Or get one of those flat fee agents/attorneys to write up an offer.

  80. 80
    Ram's_horn says:

    Thanks for the Reply. Listing agent agreed to return the buyer’s agent commission to seller. Just to make the offer attractive to seller to accept our offer.

  81. 81
    pedaltothemetal says:

    US2Y chart looking like it should be part of FANG! Mortgage rates going higher? Think so.

    Funny that Seattle put out honey buckets for the marathon. Isn’t all good to leave your bezos right in the street?

  82. 82
    LiquidCrash says:

    RE: The Tim @ 47 – I think it could be the Zillow Effect and this chart compliments that theory nicely.

    Zillow now tells homeowners:
    “May has historically been the best month to list a home in your area. We estimate that listing your home in May would increase your sale price by $X,XXX over listing in June.”

    The fact that zestimates have an effect on housing prices is established, now I believe the advice to sell at a certain time of year may also have an effect.

  83. 83
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 61 – Starbuck’s new Seatlle Sidewalk Surprise blend not only helps keep the city clean, but 10% goes to the homeless producers.

  84. 84

    By Ram’s_horn @ 78:

    Hi,
    If buyer is knowledgeable enough to write the offer and handle the transaction, can buyer use the NWMLS P&S form-21 with out using the buyer’s agent?. Will the listing agent accept the offer directly from buyer on NWMLS form-21?.

    There is no reason they shouldn’t–and in fact the agent has a duty to present all offers.

    But the chance of a buyer being knowledgeable enough is slim to none. Most attorneys are not familiar enough with the forms to deal with them easily on their own, and many agents can’t fill out the forms properly without making mistakes despite having worked with them for years.

    If you don’t want to go with an agent you’d be better off using a real estate attorney, but in this fast market there might be issues getting your offer in on time.

    Finally, keep in mind that not using an agent probably doesn’t save the seller any money, and without using an agent you won’t have easy access to the “attached documents” which ideally contain things like the seller’s Form 17 disclosure statement and offer instructions indicating what the seller might be looking for.

  85. 85

    By Ram’s_horn @ 80:

    Thanks for the Reply. Listing agent agreed to return the buyer’s agent commission to seller. Just to make the offer attractive to seller to accept our offer.

    I would never make that offer to a buyer because for one thing it’s a matter between myself and the seller, but more importantly, I don’t want to increase the chance of my seller being sued. Without an agent representing the buyer the only entity for the buyer to blame for their post-closing situation is the seller and the listing agent. Lawsuits are not fun, and doing things to make them more likely is foolhardy, IMHO. So I will always encourage an unrepresented buyer to get an agent or use an attorney.

    Beyond that, all sorts of situations are likely to arise during the transaction where the buyer not being represented will be problematic–particularly inspection issues.

  86. 86
    Nathan Decker says:

    RE: Justme @ 8 – You can’t think of only the cost of the head tax to business. Its a signal to businesses: stay out
    If you come to Seattle you cannot rely on basic assumptions, the head tax could be the start, they will punish success.

    They created a homeless problem and now blame businesses, use it as an excuse to tax and control. It’s so commonsensical, if you make it easier to be homeless you will have more homeless. So more tax equals more services equals more tax.

    People need to vote this council out.

  87. 87

    RE: Blake @ 32
    Its Called Transparency From Our President, Not MSM Fake News

    Something Obama promised but never delivered Blake….Bush, same Open Border Party lack of transparency….all they did was let the MSM control the Fake News and then call it truth??? LOL

    Twitter got Trump elected and his approval ratings are currently higher than Obama’s ever were at a year into his term…keep the Twitter up Trump, your enemies want you stop….of course they do…..LOL

  88. 88

    RE: S-Crow @ 63
    Cedar Tree Stumps

    I hear are the last way to find cedar and make your own cedar lumber…..perhaps purchase the stump from the land owner by inspecting how much good wood is still left in its old growth innards….get a cedar stump specialist to do this IMO.

  89. 89

    RE: Paulie @ 71
    Yes, Even the DACA Kids Here Have a Successful Medical School Scholar or Two

    Rare Exceptions….most are poor and live off social supports…

    One rich elite Open Border Party success case is wonderful, but doesn’t make up for 1000s of poor and bankrupt Populists we have to raise KC property taxes to support now and other new KC taxes find affordable rent for…the general AMZ company Populist warehouse slave wage employee numbers [wages, pensions????] are far more dismal…wake-up and smell the legal 21 edible/strain coffee….LOL

  90. 90
    Anonymous Coward says:

    By uwp @ 16:

    Amazon made over 3 billion dollars last year in profit (on over 177 billion in sales).
    $275/head on Seattle employees would be roughly 12 million dollars.

    Do you think less than half of one percent of profits is a big bite?

    Since 1/2 of 1% is such a small number and we are having a homeless crises, would you please send me 1/2 of 1% of your net income? We are having a homeless crisis, and I’m sure that once the money starts rolling in I’ll be able to think up a solid plan for helping the homeless. There’s absolutely zero risk I’d blow it all on beer with my friends, no-sir-ee. You can trust me, 100%. Just don’t ever ask to see how I plan to spend the money, nor where I actually spent the money. Thanks!

  91. 91

    By softwarengineer @ 88:

    RE: S-Crow @ 63
    Cedar Tree Stumps

    I hear are the last way to find cedar and make your own cedar lumber…..perhaps purchase the stump from the land owner by inspecting how much good wood is still left in its old growth innards….get a cedar stump specialist to do this IMO.

    That might work for shakes, but you’re not going to get 20′ pieces of siding from stumps–although I do remember in the 60s seeing old growth stumps there were cut about 10+ feet off the ground. Not sure why they did that back in the day. There had to be a reason, because they needed to create a work area that high up to cut them that high up.

    If you don’t care about legalities, this might be a good source! ;-)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Washington_sunken_forests

  92. 92
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Ram’s_horn @ 80 – Sounds great. I would put the clause that “Listing agent to return the buyer’s agent commission to seller” in the offer and have the listing agent endorsed it. You can also ask the listing agent to credit you the buyer’s agent commission at closing (with endorsement.) In that case, your offer will appear higher to the seller and it may increase the chance of acceptance. Most people are math challenged.

  93. 93
    kenmorem says:

    By softwarengineer @ 87:

    RE: Blake @ 32
    Twitter got Trump elected and his approval ratings are currently higher than Obama’s ever were at a year into his term…keep the Twitter up Trump, your enemies want you stop….of course they do…..LOL

    umm, nope:
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

  94. 94
    Eastsider says:

    RE: kenmorem @ 93 – I would always discount polls related to Trump. The last election is Exhibit A.

  95. 95

    RE: Eastsider @ 92

    I was leaving that for Kary to answer, but he went in a different direction.

    1) MLS forms are only available to be used by MLS members and are “proprietary” forms. So no, a buyer can’t use them. I believe an attorney who is not an mls member can buy them and use them, but they are not available for use by the general public.
    Normally if a buyer wants to use the form without an agent or attorney, the Listing Agent (mls member) writes it for them, but without representing them. If I received one from a buyer that was completed by the buyer, I would present it to the seller but likely re-write it. I believe that would be the appropriate way to handle that situation. More often the buyer just calls the Listing Agent with their proposal and the Listing Agent writes it.

    2) There are specific rules with regard to “unfair advantage”. If the buyer is the ONLY buyer, then it’s a non-issue. If the buyer is trying to get it at a lower price than other buyers or use the commission issue to beat other buyers, there are generally sanctions to the agent(s) involved. When a seller lists a property they must disclose if this unfair advantage is an option at time of listing, noting that “variable rate” may be applied. Generally, and only IF the property is listed in the mls, the buyers with agents cannot be at a disadvantage to buyers without agents. Though there is a way to work through this, it is problematic if there are multiple offers.

    3) Commission issues are generally not in the Purchase and Sale Agreements, and if it is a financed offer vs a cash offer, there are lender concerns that need to be addressed. Though the same outcome, the Commission issue would be addressed via a revision to the Listing Agreement between the Agent and the Seller, and not part of the Purchase and Sale Agreement. The Listing Agent can decide to forfeit the 3% Buyer side fee, but cannot be compelled to do so and normally cannot do so if there is more than one offer.

    The buyer and seller and Listing Agent may work through this, but other buyers’ agents can bring an action if their buyer was disadvantaged by this arrangement. If the other buyers had higher offers and the lower offer was accepted due to the net difference, the Listing Agent may be subject to fines if not handled properly.

  96. 96
    uwp says:

    This day in history…

    Before we get too wrapped up in the listings bump, people on this very website were complaining about lack of inventory in June 2015 when total SFH listings were 10% higher than now, and “months-of-supply” was marginally better. We still have along ways to go to get to balanced.

    NWMLS: Market Goes From Bad to Worse for Buyers
    (also, King County median was 480k)

  97. 97
    uwp says:

    By Eastsider @ 94:

    RE: kenmorem @ 93 – I would always discount polls related to Trump. The last election is Exhibit A.

    National polls were relatively close to the final result. They average of polls the last week had Hillary up by ~3%, she won the popular vote by ~2%.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

    It was state polls that had issues. And even those were within the range of error that could be expected.

  98. 98
    Minnie says:

    RE: LiquidCrash @ 82

    nah, Zillow has been saying that for at least a year and a half. It’s not a “new” thing

  99. 99
    ronp says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

  100. 100

    By ronp @ 99:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

    First, I’m only conservative relative to the leftists on the City Council, and perhaps the general population of Seattle. I’m liberal compared to just about anyone who would call themselves Republican, and probably every one of the Republican candidates for President (the exception being Rand Paul where we have many things in common). I am economically conservative–I’ll give you that. Second, I’m not that rich.

    But as to your point, just what do you think Seattle government has done that contributed to the growth in Seattle? That was the topic. Given that the Growth Management Act requires them to do some planning, I would argue that they’ve done absolutely nothing that they didn’t have to do. What do you think they’ve done? Contributed to the employment of attorneys? In that regard, the Seattle City Council is similar to Trump. ;-)

  101. 101

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 95 – Copyright of the forms is sort of an odd issue. The forms are “statewide” forms, meaning they are not just the product of the NWMLS. But despite that, the NWMLS site contemplates the forms being given to be used by others, although they recommend the others be only real estate professionals and attorneys. And anyone giving the forms to a third party indemnifies the NWMLS for their use by third parties.

    http://www.northwestmls.com/index.cfm?/Become-A-Member/page/Statewide-Forms-Rules

    They also have a forms service, but that seems to be restricted to real estate professionals (which may or may not include attorneys—not clear).

    Getting back to the topic it’s somewhat amazing to me an agent would suggest that, as opposed to a buyer suggesting it, even if this is a stale listing that has been taking some time to sell. Even in those instances, you need to worry about another represented buyer popping up during the process, possibly even through inspection.

  102. 102

    MSM Fake News on Trade Deficit With Canada

    Its really around a -$10B deficit, not the +$8B the NWO uses [without US Census Data reference]….the MSM and the G7 Piggy Bank Robbers Hate Trump….so they made up the data.

    The real Census Bureau Data:

    https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c1220.html

    Military Contracts always have a “Made in America” clause for steel and other war dependent materials….its always been a DOD policy….Obama just abruptly abandoned it to give the NWO more of our American tax payer piggy bank money they rob…

  103. 103

    RE: Justme @ 76
    The Open Border Party Would Never Admit If They Were Leaving King County in Droves

    Allegations don’t make up for no data…..my neighborhood evicted or they short sold their way out of my HOA about 5-10 years ago…..Halloween has like 20 kids now, it use to have 80-100….

    Poor folks who i.e., lose their money at casinos should not be home owners….LOL

  104. 104

    The Seattle City Council is trying to unring a bell.

    http://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-to-consider-repealing-controversial-head-tax

    But it’s really too late.

    “I don’t see a compromise at all. I see a council that is continually looking for avenues to increase revenue with zero accountability,” Spady [of Dick’s Drive-In] said after the tax was passed. “They’re forcing us to really think really hard about having a more efficient work force, giving less to charity or possibly not being in the City of Seattle.”

    As I’ve said before, this isn’t about the past or the present, it’s about an uncertain future in a city lead by politicians who are anti-business and in some cases anti-capitalist. The concern of business is what will they do next, what will they do after that? The only solution is a new City Council.

  105. 105
    uwp says:

    By Dick’s Burgers @ 104:

    “I don’t see a compromise at all. I see a council that is continually looking for avenues to increase revenue with zero accountability,” Spady [of Dick’s Drive-In]; said after the tax was passed. “They’re forcing us to really think really hard about having a more efficient work force, giving less to charity or possibly not being in the City of Seattle.”

    The threat about giving less to charity is real classy!

    Also, their burgers/fries suck and they charge you for ketchup.

  106. 106
    David says:

    Fascism defined:

    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.

    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

  107. 107
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: uwp @ 105 – They have one of the most generous compensation plans of any fast food restaurant – local or national. This includes health insurance, dental insurance, tuition, child care, 401K, and a wage which beats the competition. Would you prefer that their employees are on the Apple Health Medicaid system?

    I know of more than one UW student who worked their way through college by working at Dicks. What do you offer your employees in your low-margin industry?

  108. 108
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 104 – Seattle needs the late George Benson to clean up the Seattle City Council nonsense. He would absolutely croak to see what has happened. I know that dates me a bit….worked for him and Evelyn for summer chump change doing cleanup/odds n ends when they ran Benson’s Pharmacy on Capitol Hill. Sawant and others needs to look at his Wikipedia bio and take a lesson on real civic leadership and a serving heart.

  109. 109
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 104 – LOL. They finally realize that reasonable people outnumber socialists even in this town! But I agree with you. The damage has been done. Here comes HQ2 and a yuge sucking sound…

  110. 110

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 101

    I hadn’t read the rules since the forms became “Statewide” as to uniformity.

    It says whomever gave the form to the buyer to fill out is liable to the Seller and the Seller’s Agent if there is a problem. Fairly prohibitive. :)

    It says they can’t be put on the internet, as they always have said and that they are copyright material. But the language did change a bit.

    I have never been able to put a form up (in whole or in part) in a blog post to explain something I am referring to…and that does not seem to have changed.

    Seems the original commenter was able to get his offer accepted, so we wish him good luck. Hopefully the property was on the market for a bit and he was the only offer in consideration.

    We see more of this in a weak market than a strong one, so if this becomes a common occurrence it will be another sign that the the end is near. :)

  111. 111

    By uwp @ 105:

    By Dick’s Burgers @ 104:

    “I don’t see a compromise at all. I see a council that is continually looking for avenues to increase revenue with zero accountability,” Spady [of Dick’s Drive-In]; said after the tax was passed. “They’re forcing us to really think really hard about having a more efficient work force, giving less to charity or possibly not being in the City of Seattle.”

    The threat about giving less to charity is real classy!.

    Anyone know what their charities are? Maybe they give to the Millionaires’ Club or something like that, and figure the city is just making their contributions involuntary.

    As to the other option–not being in the City of Seattle, I could see that happening with grocery stores, particularly if the stores lease rather than own their spots. Or maybe they’ll use being in Seattle as leverage against the landlords. Personally, I’d prefer the former.

  112. 112

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 110:

    We see more of this in a weak market than a strong one, so if this becomes a common occurrence it will be another sign that the the end is near. :)

    With the number of sales going for significantly over list I could see this sort of thing happening even without a downturn. Just because a good comp sold for $70,000 over list doesn’t mean that you could list the subject property at that price and have it sell. IMHO, pricing has become a bit more difficult due to the frenzy of late, and that could result in those sorts of situations. If so, that would be the second thing such a listing agent did that wouldn’t have been in their client’s interest.

  113. 113
    Bubble Trouble says:

    You gotta love the socialists running this burg. They will repeal the head tax tomorrow but the head moron (Mr. Mayor) says he will look at other revenue sources to fight homelessness. In other words, get ready for higher property taxes.

  114. 114
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By David @ 106:

    Fascism defined:

    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.

    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

    He’s not staying. The whole HQ2 thing is really a search for HQ1. No company ever has 2 HQs. It is and always has been a search for the new HQ, with Seattle becoming a regional office. You don’t become the world’s richest man by being a moron.

  115. 115
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By ronp @ 99:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

    Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. How’d that work out? Seattle has had a couple of good decades. Just like Detroit had. But past performance is no guarantee of future success.

  116. 116
    pfft says:

    By softwarengineer @ 103:

    RE: Justme @ 76
    The Open Border Party Would Never Admit If They Were Leaving King County in Droves

    Allegations don’t make up for no data…..my neighborhood evicted or they short sold their way out of my HOA about 5-10 years ago…..Halloween has like 20 kids now, it use to have 80-100….

    Poor folks who i.e., lose their money at casinos should not be home owners….LOL

    Sessions Rules That Victims Of Domestic Violence Are Not Eligible For Asylum
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-rules-that-victims-of-domestic-abuse-are-not-eligible-for-asylum

    Some Christian huh?

  117. 117
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 104:

    The Seattle City Council is trying to unring a bell.

    http://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-city-council-to-consider-repealing-controversial-head-tax

    But it’s really too late.

    “I don’t see a compromise at all. I see a council that is continually looking for avenues to increase revenue with zero accountability,” Spady [of Dick’s Drive-In] said after the tax was passed. “They’re forcing us to really think really hard about having a more efficient work force, giving less to charity or possibly not being in the City of Seattle.”

    As I’ve said before, this isn’t about the past or the present, it’s about an uncertain future in a city lead by politicians who are anti-business and in some cases anti-capitalist. The concern of business is what will they do next, what will they do after that? The only solution is a new City Council.

    if they are so bad why has the city down so well? why did amazon locate here?

    what about the homeless. soulless corporations don’t wanna help and kary why are you washing their car for them? why do you so easily sell out to corporations? are you a corporation or a human being?

  118. 118
    pfft says:

    By David @ 106:

    Fascism defined:

    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.

    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

    Yet you say nothing about Trump. Trump is way more harmful for jobs than the city council. yet you say nothing.

    Trump to impose total ban on luxury German cars: report
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390009-trump-to-impose-total-ban-on-luxury-german-cars-report

    Trumps tariffs will costs jobs. his racist/xenophobic rhetoric has hit the travel industry. the man child knows nothing about ANYTHING.

  119. 119
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 115:

    By ronp @ 99:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

    Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. How’d that work out? Seattle has had a couple of good decades. Just like Detroit had. But past performance is no guarantee of future success.

    automation hit the car industry. Detroit’s GDP is as high as ever.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/183873/gdp-of-the-detroit-metro-area/

    “Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. ”

    link please.

  120. 120
    David says:

    I’ve represented a few illegal aliens in domestic violence cases. I urged one to get what is called a “U” visa under these conditions. However, I also know that it is being badly abused. It also heavily incentivizes false claims of domestic violence.

    I can tell you from close experience that these illegal aliens from Mexico have DRASTICALLY different values systems than the Judeo-Christian countries. Male and female alike.

    And just because I know you are a repugnant ignoramus sitting naked and flatulently in front of your computer awaiting every opportunity to knock Christians – Jesus was not an illegal alien or refugee. HIS parents were there in the city to pay their taxes when he was born.

    By pfft @ 116:

    By softwarengineer @ 103:

    RE: Justme @ 76
    The Open Border Party Would Never Admit If They Were Leaving King County in Droves

    Allegations don’t make up for no data…..my neighborhood evicted or they short sold their way out of my HOA about 5-10 years ago…..Halloween has like 20 kids now, it use to have 80-100….

    Poor folks who i.e., lose their money at casinos should not be home owners….LOL

    Sessions Rules That Victims Of Domestic Violence Are Not Eligible For Asylum
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-rules-that-victims-of-domestic-abuse-are-not-eligible-for-asylum

    Some Christian huh?

  121. 121
    pfft says:

    hey gross david is back baby!

    I don’t bash Christians at all. I just said this is clearly not Christian behavior. Not what I learned in church.

    “I can tell you from close experience that these illegal aliens from Mexico have DRASTICALLY different values systems than the Judeo-Christian countries. Male and female alike.”

    pfft. Face it, Sessions is a monster. Do you think he’ll go to jail for lying to Congress? Isn’t lying a sin?

    Matthew alone recounts the flight to Egypt, which, if historical, would add Jesus, Mary, and Joseph to the epic list of biblical refugees.

    http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201708/was-jesus-refugee-31096

    Pope says saga of Holy Family echoes in today’s migrants, refugees
    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/24/pope-says-saga-holy-family-echoes-todays-migrants-refugees/

  122. 122
  123. 123
    David says:

    The current Pope exists solely to gradually get them out of the global homosexual sexual abuse scandal. It so far has encompassed about 20% of Catholic priests.

    Makes you think. The current Pope is proof that population IQs have dropped dramatically because he cannot seem to understand what the problem is.

    By pfft @ 121:

    hey gross david is back baby!

    I don’t bash Christians at all. I just said this is clearly not Christian behavior. Not what I learned in church.

    “I can tell you from close experience that these illegal aliens from Mexico have DRASTICALLY different values systems than the Judeo-Christian countries. Male and female alike.”

    pfft. Face it, Sessions is a monster. Do you think he’ll go to jail for lying to Congress? Isn’t lying a sin?

    Matthew alone recounts the flight to Egypt, which, if historical, would add Jesus, Mary, and Joseph to the epic list of biblical refugees.

    http://www.uscatholic.org/articles/201708/was-jesus-refugee-31096

    Pope says saga of Holy Family echoes in today’s migrants, refugees
    https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/12/24/pope-says-saga-holy-family-echoes-todays-migrants-refugees/

  124. 124
    pfft says:

    He’s the only pope I’ve really paid attention to and I am a non-practicing Lutheran. He actually practices what he preaches and what the bible says. His early career was all about helping the poor.

  125. 125
    David says:

    BTW, if you want to read about an actual monster, I grew up about a mile from where a cohort of yours buried the bodies. His name was Dean Corll. Google Dean.

    Jeff Sessions is a nice man. I’ve known his office coordinator for decades.

    By pfft @ 124:

    He’s the only pope I’ve really paid attention to and I am a non-practicing Lutheran. He actually practices what he preaches and what the bible says. His early career was all about helping the poor.

  126. 126
    pfft says:

    By David @ 125:

    BTW, if you want to read about an actual monster, I grew up about a mile from where a cohort of yours buried the bodies. His name was Dean Corll. Google Dean.

    Jeff Sessions is a nice man. I’ve known his office coordinator for decades.

    By pfft @ 124:

    He’s the only pope I’ve really paid attention to and I am a non-practicing Lutheran. He actually practices what he preaches and what the bible says. His early career was all about helping the poor.

    really? because he is separating mothers and their children at the border. unconscionable. the border patrol takes their kids and tells them they are going to give them a bath…sickening. google that. if he is so nice why did he lie to Congress?

    “I grew up about a mile from where a cohort of yours”

    yeah I am pretty sure he wasn’t a cohort of mine but thanks for playing!

  127. 127
    David says:

    RE: pfft @ 126 – These Mexicans know what they are doing – if they don’t like, they shouldn’t do it.

    BTW, mothers in the USA who commit crimes – are separated from their children. Mothers who are pregnant when they commit murder – have the baby TAKEN AWAY from them in prison. Then separated for life.

    US parents with serious lifestyle problems such as drugs, have their parental rights terminated. And are separated from their children for life.

  128. 128

    By pfft @ 117:

    if they are so bad why has the city down so well? why did amazon locate here?

    The topic is Seattle government. What makes you think Amazon settled here due to Seattle government. Or how about just answering my question about what Seattle government has done well? I asked you that in question 33, and you didn’t answer. I asked Ronp that in question 100, and he has not answered. No one else has chimed in either. And the reason is obvious: Amazon did not settle here and Seattle’s economy has not done well because of Seattle’s government. Those things have happened despite Seattle’s government. By non-response that has been proven at this point–thank you.

    what about the homeless. soulless corporations don’t wanna help and kary why are you washing their car for them? why do you so easily sell out to corporations? are you a corporation or a human being?

    Well first, the head tax was passed without a plan to do anything for the homeless. The head tax was merely passed to be a tax on what they thought was successful business, because the Seattle City Council is anti-capitalist. It was only after the tax passed that the started working on how to spend the money. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/seattles-head-tax-fight-goes-to-the-next-round-how-best-to-solve-homelessness/ So it was no more a tax to help the homeless than it was an “Amazon tax.” It was just a tax because Seattle politicians like taxes and hate success.

    Getting back to the first point, that Seattle doesn’t do anything well, do you think that if they did actually succeed as some goal that they would enter a self-hate period? /sarc

    Finally, what makes you think corporations don’t do things for charity? The money they spend is probably much more beneficial to the homeless than what the City of Seattle spends, because the City of Seattle is counter-productive at virtually everything it does. Charities actually help people!

  129. 129

    I didn’t want to post too many links and get put into moderation, so here’s a link to show that Amazon does care about the homeless.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/10/technology/amazon-headquarters-homeless-shelter/index.html

  130. 130

    By pfft @ 116:

    Sessions Rules That Victims Of Domestic Violence Are Not Eligible For Asylum
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-rules-that-victims-of-domestic-abuse-are-not-eligible-for-asylum

    Some Christian huh?

    I don’t know what being a Christian has to do with interpreting and enforcing the laws. The issue is “particular social group” as a basis to seek refugee status. Sessions makes a rather compelling legal argument as to why domestic violence and gang violence does not qualify. Did you read the link you posted?

    The absurdity of the broader definition is most apparent with respect to gang violence. There the only “particular social group” would be gang members! The other victims of gang violence are merely innocent bystanders or ordinary citizens, and not a social group at all being targetted. Rather ironic though that they don’t qualify, because it’s US drug policy that is largely responsible for the drug violence in other countries. But the question isn’t what should or should not be done, the question is what does the law provide. And it undoubtedly does not provide that anyone living in a certain city can come to the US because there’s a lot of gang violence in that city.

    Here’s some discussion of the issue in a relatively neutral manner. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-particular-social-group-means-asylum-purposes.html

  131. 131
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By pfft @ 119:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 115:

    By ronp @ 99:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

    Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. How’d that work out? Seattle has had a couple of good decades. Just like Detroit had. But past performance is no guarantee of future success.

    automation hit the car industry. Detroit’s GDP is as high as ever.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/183873/gdp-of-the-detroit-metro-area/

    “Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. ”

    link please.

    As Ronald Reagan said, it’s not that leftists know so little, it’s that so much of what they know isn’t so.

    Automation hit the car industry in the 1950s? LOL. Henry Ford might disagree with you. Dude, Detroit was America’s boomtown. Cars were to the 20th century what tech is in the 21st. It was the place to be. Then the socialists/unions took over and destroyed it. By 1980 Detroit was a dump. Took less than a generation to gut the city and auto industry. Between 2000 and 2017 the city had no economic growth despite what your fake news chart (from 2001) says.

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/09/14/detroit-incomes-rise-first-time-since/105588010/

  132. 132
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By pfft @ 116:

    By softwarengineer @ 103:

    RE: Justme @ 76
    The Open Border Party Would Never Admit If They Were Leaving King County in Droves

    Allegations don’t make up for no data…..my neighborhood evicted or they short sold their way out of my HOA about 5-10 years ago…..Halloween has like 20 kids now, it use to have 80-100….

    Poor folks who i.e., lose their money at casinos should not be home owners….LOL

    Sessions Rules That Victims Of Domestic Violence Are Not Eligible For Asylum
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-rules-that-victims-of-domestic-abuse-are-not-eligible-for-asylum

    Some Christian huh?

    I love how leftists suddenly become religious when it fits them. Just like how they all of a sudden hate Russia after 60 years of doing everything they could to cozy up to Russia. Remember when Barry O. laughed at Romney when he called Russia the greatest threat to America, in 2012? My my how times have changed. Today Putin is 1000000X worse than Hitler. It’s almost as if you guys are hypocrites with no real values or something.

    The reason Sessions made that decision is because it is rife with fraud. Anyone can make the claim they were “abused”. And it’s impossible to disprove. You know this and you know very well why this decision was made. But it’s a day ending in Y and you need to get in your daily quota of Trump bashing for the day.

  133. 133
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By pfft @ 118:

    By David @ 106:

    Fascism defined:

    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html

    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.

    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

    Yet you say nothing about Trump. Trump is way more harmful for jobs than the city council. yet you say nothing.

    Trump to impose total ban on luxury German cars: report
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390009-trump-to-impose-total-ban-on-luxury-german-cars-report

    Trumps tariffs will costs jobs. his racist/xenophobic rhetoric has hit the travel industry. the man child knows nothing about ANYTHING.

    It’s funny how leftists will literally believe anything they read. Well if you really think evil Trump will ban BMWs, go buy every BMW you can find. Their values will skyrocket once this mythical ban takes effect. Come on man, this is your moment, you can corner the market on overpriced, over engineered status mobiles.

    I owned one – and only one – BMW. It was a POS that was in the shop more than in my garage. First and last time I fell for the BS marketing. Ultimate Driving Machine my arse! Ultimate Frustration Machine would be more apt.

    But the fact you are freaking out over this non-story tells me everything I need to know about you.

    1. Your TDS is at an 11
    2. You need a badge on a car to feel good about yourself.
    3. Even if this were true, your TDS is at such a dangerous level you equate a tarriff with fascism. In which case Justine “The Brow” Trudeau is 100000X worse than Hitler for his 270% tarriff on American milk. Oh right, that’s milk. Produced by dairy farmers. Who live in the country, so un-people. Who cares about them right? What’s important is that German auto workers are taken care of.

    SAD!

  134. 134
    Anonymous Coward says:

    By pfft @ 124:

    He’s the only pope I’ve really paid attention to and I am a non-practicing Lutheran. He actually practices what he preaches…

    So, when’s he going to get around to tearing down that wall around the Vatican? And remind me again, how many refugees did the Vatican accept last year?

  135. 135
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 124:

    He’s the only pope I’ve really paid attention to and I am a non-practicing Lutheran. He actually practices what he preaches and what the bible says. His early career was all about helping the poor.

    I believe he is still against abortion. So what say you? You have contributed nothing but discords and SJW BS here. Even the socialist city council knows better to back off.

  136. 136

    By Eastsider @ 135:pfft hasn’t gotten his communique yet from the Democratic Party, telling him how he’s supposed to think. Until that time, he’ll continue to support the head tax.

  137. 137
    redmondjp says:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 131 – The Detroit City Council had a big part of chasing jobs out of their city as well, dating back to well over a century ago.

    First of all, it was the HIGH CITY TAXES in Detroit proper that caused many of the auto plants to relocate. Even back to as early as 1908 when Henry Ford built his Highland Park plant outside of city limits:

    http://www.motorcities.org/Story/Assembly+Line+Realized+at+Highland+Park-95.html

    Secondly, and this was an even more significant reason: there was very limited space inside the city to expand and build the modern assembly plants that were massive, when compared to those early ones in the city (see Packard Plant complex, mostly still standing). They did eventually build some newer assembly plants in-city such as the GM one in Hamtramk, but they had to raze part of a residential neighborhood formerly known as Poletown to do so.

    So even when Detroit peaked around 1950, the writing was already on the wall as to its future. So it is here in Seattle, but short-sighted people can’t see it.

  138. 138
    BacktoBasics says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 133:

    By pfft @ 118:

    By David @ 106:

    Fascism defined:
    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html
    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.
    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

    Yet you say nothing about Trump. Trump is way more harmful for jobs than the city council. yet you say nothing.
    Trump to impose total ban on luxury German cars: report
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390009-trump-to-impose-total-ban-on-luxury-german-cars-report
    Trumps tariffs will costs jobs. his racist/xenophobic rhetoric has hit the travel industry. the man child knows nothing about ANYTHING.

    It’s funny how leftists will literally believe anything they read. Well if you really think evil Trump will ban BMWs, go buy every BMW you can find. Their values will skyrocket once this mythical ban takes effect. Come on man, this is your moment, you can corner the market on overpriced, over engineered status mobiles.
    I owned one – and only one – BMW. It was a POS that was in the shop more than in my garage. First and last time I fell for the BS marketing. Ultimate Driving Machine my arse! Ultimate Frustration Machine would be more apt.
    But the fact you are freaking out over this non-story tells me everything I need to know about you.
    1. Your TDS is at an 11
    2. You need a badge on a car to feel good about yourself.
    3. Even if this were true, your TDS is at such a dangerous level you equate a tarriff with fascism. In which case Justine “The Brow” Trudeau is 100000X worse than Hitler for his 270% tarriff on American milk. Oh right, that’s milk. Produced by dairy farmers. Who live in the country, so un-people. Who cares about them right? What’s important is that German auto workers are taken care of.
    SAD!

    German cars are over priced already. Tariff will make it even worse. That may cause VW , BMW to move factory to the US.

  139. 139
  140. 140

    RE: N @ 139 – That is pretty simplistic, and way too focused on Amazon. Amazon was hardly the main contributor to the initiative to repeal the tax.

    But beyond that, I prefer the alternative analysis which points out that the tax vote would have fallen on the same day as yet another new tax the city wants to impose (surprise, surprise, surprise). Given how unpopular (and stupid) the head tax is, they didn’t want to affect the votes of the other matter.

    https://sccinsight.com/2018/06/11/council-moves-suddenly-and-swiftly-to-repeal-the-head-tax/

  141. 141

    Since January I’ve been complaining about some Title/Escrow companies offering remote notary services where the notary and signer are not together, and the signing might even be electronic. What I just discovered today was this posting from April by Department of Licensing.

    http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/notary/nconsumernews.html

    To get valid notarial services in Washington State, you must appear before a notary public for acknowledgements, verifications, and to have your signature witnessed. This means all the signers must be physically present with the notary while the notarization is taking place. A video image, phone call, or other form of non-physical representation doesn’t count.

    The concern is that the deed giving you your property might later be determined to be invalid due to the manner of notarization. Not a risk worth taking, IMHO.

  142. 142
    N says:

    @ Kary – I agree 100% with your take, I was just posting for discourse. Amazon gets too much focus in the article, and the mention of Starbucks as being blamed with Amazon for sky high prices is even more out there. Might as well blame every mega corp in town then.

    It will be interesting to see how the homeless issue is viewed in another 5-10 years. Sometimes these issues come and go, during the recession the Occupy Wall street crowd was all the rage, then more recently it was all about $15min wage/livable wages and all of a sudden the employment market shifted and many top retailers (Walmart, Target etc) were increasing wages on their own in response to market conditions and turnover and while proponents feel just as strongly, the economics of keeping employees has lead to it being less of an acute issue ( I know many will disagree, but you can’t argue that the market caused wages to shift up).

  143. 143
    greg says:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 133

    bubble which one is it. Are you simply ignorant of the facts or are you lying when you speak of “open border party”

    real question. liar, stupid or perhaps both? after all they are not mutually exclusive…….

    Remember from a factual standpoint there is no major party in the USA that supports open borders, so either you don’t know that or you are lying in a weak attempt to discredit others. I suspect you are just a liar, a person who will publicly and knowingly lie just to attack someone who has a slightly different worldview than yours. shame on you dude.

  144. 144
    greg says:

    RE: BacktoBasics @ 138

    Hey maybe they could build a plant in Greer SC…. that looks like a great spot to build BMWs …

  145. 145
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 141 – Interesting.

    Among other reasons….probably the #1 reason we sign our own clients (unless we have to hire a Notary) is that you are putting sensitive information in the hands of a third party that is not involved at all in the real estate sale transaction. Our standard of care is that we want to control our clients documents and information. Further, a third party Notary is there to witness signatures and cannot or should not discuss any transaction questions or issues. When we meet eye to eye with our clients it gives the client far more confidence in seeing the people who collaborated and worked on their transaction from day 1. Many times people think the Notary parked in Title offices or sent on a mobile signing to sign people all day long is an employee —- they are not.

    I wish I had time to visit the Title/Escrow Settlement Services Summit symposium in Detroit last week because of all the roll out’s for digital signing technology. I remember fondly of the total disaster it was for online closings when Flagstar came out with their “game changer”. It was a total failure, fraught with issues and many in the escrow biz told them so.

  146. 146
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 131:

    By pfft @ 119:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 115:

    By ronp @ 99:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33 – dude, you are cherry picking and exhibiting confirmation bias (you are a suburban conservative rich guy) yes, the city government has made mistakes, but look at the population, employment and real estate value growth in the past decade. Yes, partly because Bezos chose Seattle but even without that things would be pretty damn good for a US city in a country that lacks a reasonably humane social policy for housing and health care.

    Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. How’d that work out? Seattle has had a couple of good decades. Just like Detroit had. But past performance is no guarantee of future success.

    automation hit the car industry. Detroit’s GDP is as high as ever.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/183873/gdp-of-the-detroit-metro-area/
    “Fun fact: in the late 1950s, Detroit was the richest city in America, per capita. ”
    link please.

    As Ronald Reagan said, it’s not that leftists know so little, it’s that so much of what they know isn’t so.
    Automation hit the car industry in the 1950s? LOL. Henry Ford might disagree with you. Dude, Detroit was America’s boomtown. Cars were to the 20th century what tech is in the 21st. It was the place to be. Then the socialists/unions took over and destroyed it. By 1980 Detroit was a dump. Took less than a generation to gut the city and auto industry. Between 2000 and 2017 the city had no economic growth despite what your fake news chart (from 2001) says.
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/09/14/detroit-incomes-rise-first-time-since/105588010/

    Europe makes plenty of cars and has strong unions. next. It wasn’t unions that screwed up, it was management. Remember when Japan had to teach us how to make cars? The problem these days is spreadsheet capitalism and shareholder capitalism. everything is about maximizing shareholder value. they are going to do that until they have no customers.

    Look at Sears, if buying back shares is more profitable than making the stores nice to attract customers they will buyback shares…

  147. 147
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 136:

    By Eastsider @ 135:pfft hasn’t gotten his communique yet from the Democratic Party, telling him how he’s supposed to think. Until that time, he’ll continue to support the head tax.

    Kary why won’t you tell us you are a republican? Why can’t you just say you voted for Trump?

    The spineless democrat is back just in time for the midterms.

    The city council are idiots. They identified the problem and said it was so bad they need to do something about it. now what are they going to do? they will look stupid if they don’t have a plan but now how are they going to fund it? they aren’t going to raise taxes and they probably won’t borrow the money. idiots. if you don’t think a rampant homeless problem isn’t a moral problem and doesn’t hurt business I don’t know what to tell you.

  148. 148
    pfft says:

    By David @ 127:

    RE: pfft @ 126 – These Mexicans know what they are doing – if they don’t like, they shouldn’t do it.

    BTW, mothers in the USA who commit crimes – are separated from their children. Mothers who are pregnant when they commit murder – have the baby TAKEN AWAY from them in prison. Then separated for life.

    US parents with serious lifestyle problems such as drugs, have their parental rights terminated. And are separated from their children for life.

    oh my god, did you just compare criminals to people who got here to legally request asylum in accordance with international law? what many of them do is legal. you can go to a port of entry and request asylum.

    “These Mexicans know what they are doing – if they don’t like, they shouldn’t do it.”

    Good lord. I guess they NEEDED their kids taken away? you need more heart bro. Why do you assume they are all Mexicans?

  149. 149
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 132:

    By pfft @ 116:

    By softwarengineer @ 103:

    RE: Justme @ 76
    The Open Border Party Would Never Admit If They Were Leaving King County in Droves
    Allegations don’t make up for no data…..my neighborhood evicted or they short sold their way out of my HOA about 5-10 years ago…..Halloween has like 20 kids now, it use to have 80-100….
    Poor folks who i.e., lose their money at casinos should not be home owners….LOL

    Sessions Rules That Victims Of Domestic Violence Are Not Eligible For Asylum
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-rules-that-victims-of-domestic-abuse-are-not-eligible-for-asylum
    Some Christian huh?

    I love how leftists suddenly become religious when it fits them. Just like how they all of a sudden hate Russia after 60 years of doing everything they could to cozy up to Russia. Remember when Barry O. laughed at Romney when he called Russia the greatest threat to America, in 2012? My my how times have changed. Today Putin is 1000000X worse than Hitler. It’s almost as if you guys are hypocrites with no real values or something.
    The reason Sessions made that decision is because it is rife with fraud. Anyone can make the claim they were “abused”. And it’s impossible to disprove. You know this and you know very well why this decision was made. But it’s a day ending in Y and you need to get in your daily quota of Trump bashing for the day.

    LOL. where to begin? The Trump administration is incompetent so I can see how they would think that it’s impossible to disprove. They can’t even vet their own WH staff…

    Democrats don’t cozy up to Russians, never have. In 2012 Romney was wrong, al-qaeda and other terrorists were our biggest threat. he even said his comments were wrong.

  150. 150
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 133:

    By pfft @ 118:

    By David @ 106:

    Fascism defined:
    “Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. ” http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html
    THIS IS SEATTLE’s mindset. Sawant especially and most of them more specifically.
    Bezos is CRAZY to stay in a city whose power structures threatened him with him FELONY prosecution for speaking out against the jobs tax.

    Yet you say nothing about Trump. Trump is way more harmful for jobs than the city council. yet you say nothing.
    Trump to impose total ban on luxury German cars: report
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/390009-trump-to-impose-total-ban-on-luxury-german-cars-report
    Trumps tariffs will costs jobs. his racist/xenophobic rhetoric has hit the travel industry. the man child knows nothing about ANYTHING.

    It’s funny how leftists will literally believe anything they read. Well if you really think evil Trump will ban BMWs, go buy every BMW you can find. Their values will skyrocket once this mythical ban takes effect. Come on man, this is your moment, you can corner the market on overpriced, over engineered status mobiles.
    I owned one – and only one – BMW. It was a POS that was in the shop more than in my garage. First and last time I fell for the BS marketing. Ultimate Driving Machine my arse! Ultimate Frustration Machine would be more apt.
    But the fact you are freaking out over this non-story tells me everything I need to know about you.
    1. Your TDS is at an 11
    2. You need a badge on a car to feel good about yourself.
    3. Even if this were true, your TDS is at such a dangerous level you equate a tarriff with fascism. In which case Justine “The Brow” Trudeau is 100000X worse than Hitler for his 270% tarriff on American milk. Oh right, that’s milk. Produced by dairy farmers. Who live in the country, so un-people. Who cares about them right? What’s important is that German auto workers are taken care of.
    SAD!

    I never said I believed it but who knows what trump will do? might he do something stupid? you can bet that.

    “Trudeau is 100000X worse than Hitler for his 270% tarriff on American milk.”

    he doesn’t have a 270% tariff on milk. google harder.

    as to you the rest of your post, almost nothing relates to what I said.

    “Who live in the country, so un-people. Who cares about them right?”

    more lies and stereotypes? try harder.

  151. 151
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 146:

    Kary why won’t you tell us you are a republican? Why can’t you just say you voted for Trump?

    I see where you are going. You will next accuse him of being a Deplorable, Racist, Sexist, Nazi, Misogynist, Fascist, and a Trump Supporter! People like you are pathetic.

  152. 152

    By pfft @ 146:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 136:

    By Eastsider @ 135:pfft hasn’t gotten his communique yet from the Democratic Party, telling him how he’s supposed to think. Until that time, he’ll continue to support the head tax.

    Kary why won’t you tell us you are a republican? Why can’t you just say you voted for Trump?

    Because neither is true. There’s a reason I had my cat Rocky run for President in 2016. I didn’t like any of the choices in the primaries (although admittedly I didn’t get a good look at 2 of the 4 Democratic party offerings.)

    But hey, why don’t you explain one thing you think Seattle has done which was responsible for our economy? How many times do I need to ask?

  153. 153
    Kevin says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 6RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 6 – I’ll make make it a plan to ensure your wild tangents show up when people Google your credentials. If you tell your brand can uphold then by all means do what you do. Otherwise realize your face and name is associated with your ramblings. I’ll be sure to steer and potential referrals away from you as you’ve failed to prove yourself as a person to stay on subject and would be dangerous in any critical decision making.

  154. 154

    RE: Kevin @ 153 – The drug overdoses link set you off? Okay–I hardly find that a wild tangent. It’s interesting to know that it’s not just the areas you would expect, but also some rather high priced real estate areas–did you not get that connection?

    Until I saw the post you were referring to I thought you were referring to the Seattle City Council stuff, being one of those extreme left-wing people who actually supports the Council’s decisions. Their actions affect real estate too, so hardly a wild tangent that they’re trying to chase large employers away.

    But do what you will. I don’t care because I don’t get clients through the Internet or advertising, or particularly want them.

  155. 155
    Chg says:

    Only real estate agents are expected to work for free in America – sarcastically said no agent ever . I agree with all bubble blogs news and my gut has told me all this slow down happening since Dec 2017 without looking at any statistic – how ? Well cause I do this everyday duh!! Oh and by the way I pay huge fees , dues and other expenses to do this every day but still get asked to work for free . Free you say ?oh no just asking for reduced commission- we’ll back out all the expenses and taxes you pay yourself and it is working for free . So over it – this industry is now as less respected as car sales . 25 years hours and hours of education and experience and no one cares . I always discount for my repeat clients but we are not even supposed to discuss commissions . Sad state we are in these days . Everybody is a “arm chair quarter back “ in real estate due to internet yet even in my quarter century of doing this i still know I don’t know everything about this business as each home , transaction and person is unique . Sadly now it is all just numbers and money . RE: Ram’s_horn @ 80

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