Around the Sound: King County sees the biggest gains in listings

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We know that inventory is growing in King County, but let’s look at broader Puget Sound area. Now that May is over, let’s update our “Around the Sound” statistics for King, Snohomish, Pierce, Kitsap, Thurston, Island, Skagit, and Whatcom counties.

First up, a summary table:

May 2018 King Snohomish Pierce Kitsap Thurston Island Skagit Whatcom
Median Price $726,275 $500,000 $355,000 $360,000 $310,000 $372,750 $350,000 $396,250
Price YOY +14.9% +11.1% +14.9% +16.1% +7.8% +15.6% +9.7% +13.2%
New Listings 4,207 1,794 2,227 659 763 279 284 485
New Listings YOY +16.9% +5.1% +5.2% +4.4% +7.5% -2.8% -2.1% -4.5%
Active Inventory 2,912 1,246 1,829 497 638 301 379 557
Inventory YOY +35.5% +11.4% +0.7% -22.0% -0.9% -21.0% +11.5% -11.3%
Closed Sales 2,474 1,127 1,450 392 471 148 185 278
Sales YOY -4.0% -1.8% -1.7% -9.5% +3.7% -5.1% +2.2% -8.3%
Months of Supply 1.2 1.1 1.3 1.3 1.4 2.0 2.0 2.0

The biggest gains in new listings and active inventory were in King County. Snohomish and Pierce also saw some decent increases, but further out it’s more of a mixed bag, with some counties still seeing declining listings and inventory.

Here’s a look at new listings across the region:

New Listings of Single-Family Homes

King, Snohomish, Pierce, Kitsap, and Thurston all saw year-over-year gains in new listings, while Island, Skagit, and Whatcom continued to fall.

Next up: Active inventory.

Active Listings of Single-Family Homes

Inventory was up sizeably from year earlier in King, Snohomish, and Skagit. It barely increased in Pierce, and barely fell in Thurston. Kitsap, Island, and Whatcom were all down double digits from a year earlier.

Here’s the chart of median prices compared to a year ago. Every county turned in a gain, with only Thurston and Skagit turning in single-digit price gains.

Median Sale Price Single-Family Homes

Six of the eight Puget Sound counties saw sales fall compared to a year ago.

Closed Sales of Single-Family Homes

We’re still deep in sellers’ market territory, but all three of the central Puget Sound counties saw months of supply increase from a year ago.

Months of Supply Single Family Homes

Finally, here’s a chart comparing the median price in May to the 2007 peak price in each county. Every Puget Sound has now exceeded the previous peak median price and is charting new territory.

Peak Median Sale Price Single-Family Homes

In summary: So far the inventory surge is mainly just happening in King County, but it looks like it might be starting to gain some steam in the other counties. The closer you are to Seattle, the more inventory seems to be increasing.

If there is certain data you would like to see or ways you would like to see the data presented differently, drop a comment below and let me know.

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

499 comments:

  1. 1
    SDE2 says:

    Inventory YOY increased but the sales YOY decreased, I think the price will drop a little bit in the coming months in KC. The 1.2 months of supply is still far from a healthy market, until the inventory increases significantly (by 2-3 folds at least), we will continue to see the price going up.

  2. 2

    RE: SDE2 @ 1 – I really don’t think it will take that kind of inventory increase to moderate price increases or even to get a modest retreat. Even 2 months would make a huge difference, assuming it’s through increased actives (as opposed to a retreat in sales which would indicate other issues). The question is when will that happen?

  3. 3
    Joe_Clave says:

    Not sure the best way to do it, but I would like to see a chart that has inventory and price activity. For the last few years inventory keeps going down and price goes up, which is to be expected. I would like to see when in the last cycle we had inventory and price both go up, for how long, and at what relative rates, and then looks at that from about 2015-2018.

  4. 4
    MAUREEN says:

    We finally decided to put our rental in Ballard on the market. We were able to make the numbers work but not going in the right direction. I wouldn’t say we are in a bubble that will pop but more people will rent given all the new building and recessions do happen from time to time. We’re happy to be done with the maintenance.

  5. 5
    Wile E. Millenial says:

    aaaand the head tax is gone. RIP head tax, 2018-2018.

  6. 6
    Erik says:

    RE: Wile E. Millenial @ 5
    We are approaching the point where it makes more sense to be a homeless drug addict than not. When the homeless get free housing and free stations to shoot up, you’ll see stressed out Amazon slaves that are on the fence make the leap to the homeless side. Write code all day and commute through traffic or party and use drugs? It’s a pretty easy decision.

  7. 7
    ess says:

    By MAUREEN @ 4:

    We finally decided to put our rental in Ballard on the market. We were able to make the numbers work but not going in the right direction. I wouldn’t say we are in a bubble that will pop but more people will rent given all the new building and recessions do happen from time to time. We’re happy to be done with the maintenance.

    Maureen

    Were you influenced by the new landlord/tenant ordinances passed by the city of Seattle, or those new requirements had no impact?

  8. 8

    RE: MAUREEN @ 4

    Haha that’s too funny! We just did the same thing for the same reason. We just finished pending too. Happy to not have to deal with being landlords in a city with pretty affordable rents and supply in comparison to homes.

  9. 9

    By MAUREEN @ 4:

    We finally decided to put our rental in Ballard on the market. We were able to make the numbers work but not going in the right direction. I wouldn’t say we are in a bubble that will pop but more people will rent given all the new building and recessions do happen from time to time. We’re happy to be done with the maintenance.

    Anyone who is a landlord in Seattle is a masochist. I’d recommend selling regardless of market outlook, or maybe doing a 1031 exchange to buy something else outside Seattle.

    Note though 1031s are a bit difficult right now due to the time limits to buy the replacement property. We’ve done a couple recently and they are very stressful.

  10. 10

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 8
    Is That Kary Talking?

    You are a real degreed Professional thinker….good blog….it demonstrates professional spontaneous thinking that may conflict past posts with today’s facts. I agree with your blog too.

    The numbers are clearer to you than me….but a landlord just bringing in the property tax, maintenance and insurance to break even makes alternatively investing in a 4% long-term CD look very tempting ;-)

    We add the mortgage noose rattle snake to this invester’s nightmare and anyone would run screaming and kicking from being a landlord.

  11. 11

    RE: softwarengineer @ 9 – I was referring specifically to being a landlord in Seattle, with all of their extra rules. Not the overall financials of being a landlord.

    The one thing I will say about that though is those buying a new house should almost undoubtedly sell their existing house if they have significant gain in the first house and can sell it tax-free (very likely). Being able to take six figures of gain tax-free doesn’t happen very often. That is an incredible tax deal.

    I would also note that it’s amazing to me how few people seem to know the current rule on selling houses tax-free. Many people think you still need to buy a replacement property, but that probably hasn’t been the rule for over 20 years now!

  12. 12
    kenmorem says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 10:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 9 – I was referring specifically to being a landlord in Seattle, with all of their extra rules. Not the overall financials of being a landlord.

    The one thing I will say about that though is those buying a new house should almost undoubtedly sell their existing house if they have significant gain in the first house and can sell it tax-free (very likely). Being able to take six figures of gain tax-free doesn’t happen very often. That is an incredible tax deal.

    I would also note that it’s amazing to me how few people seem to know the current rule on selling houses tax-free. Many people think you still need to buy a replacement property, but that probably hasn’t been the rule for over 20 years now!

    explain.

  13. 13
    Sid says:

    Market seems to have peaked from what I’m seeing on the eastside.

  14. 14

    By kenmorem @ 11:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 10:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 9 – I was referring specifically to being a landlord in Seattle, with all of their extra rules. Not the overall financials of being a landlord.

    The one thing I will say about that though is those buying a new house should almost undoubtedly sell their existing house if they have significant gain in the first house and can sell it tax-free (very likely). Being able to take six figures of gain tax-free doesn’t happen very often. That is an incredible tax deal.

    I would also note that it’s amazing to me how few people seem to know the current rule on selling houses tax-free. Many people think you still need to buy a replacement property, but that probably hasn’t been the rule for over 20 years now!

    explain.

    Explain what? There were two topics there.

    As to the first, Seattle has rules about evicting, maybe about the size of rent increases or the notice required, and who you rent to–some of which was struck down. But in general Seattle has a decades long history of being anti-landlord and sometimes passing things which hurt tenants just because they hate landlords. Outside of Seattle in most areas you just need to deal with the state rules. And note I’m only talking about small landlords not using professional management.

    As to taxes on the sale of a personal residence, I don’t want to go into detail, but in many/most situations you can sell income tax free if you’ve lived there over 2 of the past 5 years, have not had a recent tax-free sale, and your gain is less than 250k/500k (single/married). Normal recapture rules may apply if the property was rented.

    The old rules used to require that you buy a new house in close proximity in time, and there was also a one-time exclusion of maybe $150k (????) for people over maybe 55 (????). That was very problematic because your tax basis in a house may relate back to all the prior houses you’ve bought in your lifetime, and if you were foreclosed you could end up with a huge tax gain due to the low basis that developed due to multiple carryover of deferring recognition of the gain.

    Note: This is not legal or tax advice–rather obviously I don’t remember the specifics of the old program (which still controls basis for a lot of people), nor did I give all the details of the current system. For legal or tax advice you’d need to contact your own adviser.

  15. 15
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13 – This city has also stated on the record that they are not done fighting the first-come / first rent court decision. They don’t want a landlord to be able to screen tenants using reasonable criteria. It’s the “Seattle Way”

  16. 16

    By Sid @ 12:

    Market seems to have peaked from what I’m seeing on the eastside.

    I’m not sure what you’re looking at, but I just checked the last 30 days sales for the areas north of I-90 up to Juanita, and east over to Redmond, west of Lake Sammamish. For all the SFR listings there was hardly any increase in sales price over list price, but if you only look at houses under $1M (which wiped out about 2/3rds of the total sales!), there were significant increases in sales price over list, ($45k for the median in my sample) and the mean DOM was only 7 days! (Median 6.)

    Numbers from NWMLS sources, but not compiled by or guaranteed by the NWMLS.

  17. 17
    kenmorem says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13

    oh, you’re talking about the 250/500 exclusion for a property owned 2 of 5 years. i thought you were talking about tax free for 1031 and rentals.

    FYI: the 2 in 5 rule is no more. i believe it changed in 2008 or so. now, it’s a prorated amount. if it was your primary residence for 5 of 10 years, you get to exclude 50% of the gains. homes purchased prior to the change in the law are grandfathered in, so you can still do a 2 in 5.

    there are other strategies where you could 1031 it, then rent for a year, then move in for 2 years, and then sell to get tax free gains. i think those are the basic rules, but haven’t paid too close of attention given that i will never be exploring that option.

  18. 18
  19. 19

    By kenmorem @ 16:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13

    oh, you’re talking about the 250/500 exclusion for a property owned 2 of 5 years. i thought you were talking about tax free for 1031 and rentals.

    FYI: the 2 in 5 rule is no more. i believe it changed in 2008 or so. now, it’s a prorated amount. if it was your primary residence for 5 of 10 years, you get to exclude 50% of the gains. homes purchased prior to the change in the law are grandfathered in, so you can still do a 2 in 5. .

    I’m pretty certain that is wrong, but there are rules for if you’ve rented it. Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of.

    https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc701

  20. 20

    The worst part of being sworn into the Seattle City Council is the part where they scoop out half your brains.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/lots-of-blame-for-seattles-head-tax-debacle-except-where-it-belongs/

  21. 21
    Justme says:

    FRB FOMC raised the federal funds target rate to (1.75,2.00)% range 10 minutes ago. The statement made, in my estimation, slightly more hawkish noises, meaning a somewhat more aggressive tilt toward a higher pace of interest rate increases (maybe 4 rather than 3 increases this year?). Press conference may clarify further. TNX jumped.

  22. 22
    Justme says:

    UPDATE: The so-called dot plot changed from 2-6-6-1 votes in May to 2-5-7-1 votes today, where the 7 represents that the 2018 year-end target range is (2.25,2.50)%. So it looks like the current sentiment indeed is 4 rate hikes in 2018 instead of 3, and we will end the year with FFR lower-end-of-range at 2.25% versus the 1.75% announced today.

  23. 23
  24. 24
    Justme says:

    >>Fed will hold press conferences after every meeting starting in January, Powell says.

    Nice. So starting in Jan 2019, every FOMC meeting will be a so-called “live” meeting, where an interest rate increase is deemed possible. The significance of having a press conference after every meeting is that since the 2015 rate increase cycle got started, rate changes have only taken place at meetings that had press conferences, so the change to having always a press conference is quite significant.

  25. 25

    By kenmorem @ 23:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 19
    https://www.financialsamurai.com/tax-free-exclusion-needs-to-be-prorated-after-converting-long-term-rental-into-primary-home/

    So it was as I thought–something related to rentals. The issue there is twofold. First, part of the appreciation could/would have been during the rental period, not the residence period. Second, the IRS will want to recapture any depreciation taken (or even not taken).

    Note people who started renting in say 2008 and then stopped in 2012 would sort of get screwed, because there the rental period lost value. Still though there’s the recapture issue.

  26. 26
    pfft says:

    “But in general Seattle has a decades long history of being anti-landlord and sometimes passing things which hurt tenants just because they hate landlords. Outside of Seattle in most areas you just need to deal with the state rules. And note I’m only talking about small landlords not using professional management.”

    what you really mean is that landlords have done awful things to tenants and Seattle actually stands up for tenants whereas outside areas let landlords run wild. Just look at all the awful things Trump and Jared have done as landlords.

    he government alleged that Trump employees marked minority applicants with codes, such as “No. 9” or “C” for “colored.”

    http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-report-trump-housing-discrimination-2017-2

    Kary, is passing anti-housing discrimination laws anti-landlord? generally “anti-landlord” policies are a response to bad landlord behavior.

    not all regulations are wise but they are most often there for a reason.

  27. 27
    pfft says:

    Someone is going to make money like crazy if they can only find out how to make a mall profitable.

    Landlords Are Practically Giving Malls Away
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-12/owners-of-fading-malls-on-their-knees-as-buyer-pool-evaporates

    For all but the best centers, the number of buyers — and the group of lenders willing to fund such acquisitions — has dwindled to a trickle. The handful of investors that are active in the space are demanding steep discounts to take on the risks of shaky tenant rosters, falling foot traffic and an antiquated business model.

    I wonder if malls are going to become colleges, high schools, hockey rinks and aquariums(google it). If I were the local governments I would consider relocating there. Lots of school districts desperately need indoor practice space…

  28. 28

    RE: pfft @ 26 – No, that’s not what I mean at all. With the head tax Seattle has proven it doesn’t do things for policy reasons, it does things because it hates groups of people.

    BTW, you still have not answered my question of how you think Seattle government has in any way contributed to Seattle’s economy, as opposed to Seattle’s economy having done well despite Seattle’s government. How about answering some questions rather than misstating what I say?

  29. 29
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:

    RE: pfft @ 26 – No, that’s not what I mean at all. With the head tax Seattle has proven it doesn’t do things for policy reasons, it does things because it hates groups of people.

    BTW, you still have not answered my question of how you think Seattle government has in any way contributed to Seattle’s economy, as opposed to Seattle’s economy having done well despite Seattle’s government. How about answering some questions rather than misstating what I say?

    so kary, you never answered my question. who do you want them to tax instead of large corporations like Amazon? YOU? you want a state income tax?

    do you think that large numbers of homeless people isn’t going to affect business and employment? some people won’t want to work in Seattle if they are constantly harassed by homeless people. they aren’t going to want to shop either.

    The city council passed the tax because there is a downside to having large employers like Amazon relocating to your city. Since 2010 Seattle real estate prices have doubled and rents have gone up 46%!

    “BTW, you still have not answered my question of how you think Seattle government has in any way contributed to Seattle’s economy, as opposed to Seattle’s economy having done well despite Seattle’s government. ”

    I think they deserve credit. You notice when the economy does good it’s always inspire of Democrats according to Republicans. They will twist themselves into knots trying to give credit for Republicans at some level of government. When the economy did well under Obama it was Republican Governors we were supposed to credit. I doubt they would take the blame. Obama inherited a terrible economy from the CEO president. remember when calling someone CEO and CEO president was a good thing? LOL.

    You have set up a heads I win tails you lose situation for the local government. If things go wrong you will fault the city council but they will never get credit. You are just showing your political bias. Republicans think the economy is so fragile that some law no matter how small will tank the economy. Every policy from slight tax increases, healthcare and regulations will cripple our economy supposedly. I am not buying it.

    Kary, are anti-housing discrimination laws anti-landlord?

  30. 30

    By pfft @ 29:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:

    RE: pfft @ 26 – No, that’s not what I mean at all. With the head tax Seattle has proven it doesn’t do things for policy reasons, it does things because it hates groups of people.

    BTW, you still have not answered my question of how you think Seattle government has in any way contributed to Seattle’s economy, as opposed to Seattle’s economy having done well despite Seattle’s government. How about answering some questions rather than misstating what I say?

    so kary, you never answered my question. who do you want them to tax instead of large corporations like Amazon? YOU? you want a state income tax?

    Actually I think I did answer that. I want them to come up with a viable plan to help homeless people before coming up with a way to fund an unknown plan. That’s sort of the obvious way things should be done, but Seattle in passing the head tax wasn’t interested in helping homeless people, they were interested in taxing what they thought were successful companies.

    Not sure what your fascination is with an income tax. It’s illegal by statute and the constitution at the city level and illegal by the constitution at the state level. And our system is not as regressive as advertised by the groups who want an income tax. They only get to that conclusion by claiming the poor pay taxes that they don’t pay!

    But none of that is new. It may be just stuff you’ve forgotten.

    But how about my question? Why do you think Seattle government has contributed to Seattle’s strong economy, as opposed to the strong economy existing despite Seattle government? I’ve asked you that now at least four times. If even a partisan Obamabot Democrat can’t come up with even a half-brain answer to that question, then the answer is clear. Fail to answer and it will be proven that the latter is true.

  31. 31
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 30:

    By pfft @ 29:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 28:

    RE: pfft @ 26 – No, that’s not what I mean at all. With the head tax Seattle has proven it doesn’t do things for policy reasons, it does things because it hates groups of people.

    BTW, you still have not answered my question of how you think Seattle government has in any way contributed to Seattle’s economy, as opposed to Seattle’s economy having done well despite Seattle’s government. How about answering some questions rather than misstating what I say?

    so kary, you never answered my question. who do you want them to tax instead of large corporations like Amazon? YOU? you want a state income tax?

    Actually I think I did answer that. I want them to come up with a viable plan to help homeless people before coming up with a way to fund an unknown plan. That’s sort of the obvious way things should be done, but Seattle in passing the head tax wasn’t interested in helping homeless people, they were interested in taxing what they thought were successful companies.

    Not sure what your fascination is with an income tax. It’s illegal by statute and the constitution at the city level and illegal by the constitution at the state level. And our system is not as regressive as advertised by the groups who want an income tax. They only get to that conclusion by claiming the poor pay taxes that they don’t pay!

    But none of that is new. It may be just stuff you’ve forgotten.

    But how about my question? Why do you think Seattle government has contributed to Seattle’s strong economy, as opposed to the strong economy existing despite Seattle government? I’ve asked you that now at least four times. If even a partisan Obamabot Democrat can’t come up with even a half-brain answer to that question, then the answer is clear. Fail to answer and it will be proven that the latter is true.

    Are you ever going to answer the question of how they should raise the money? I bring up the income tax because it’s the most hated.

    “I want them to come up with a viable plan to help homeless people before coming up with a way to fund an unknown plan.”

    And when they came up with a plan you’d just ask how are they going to pay for it? I know the game.

    “If even a partisan Obamabot Democrat”

    you’re a partisan Republican Kary. Don’t act like you are some neutral arbiter.

    ” It may be just stuff you’ve forgotten.”

    classic Kary! Are you ever going to answer my question on are you a Republican or did you think I’d forget?

    “Why do you think Seattle government has contributed to Seattle’s strong economy, as opposed to the strong economy existing despite Seattle government?”

    1. Because the economy has boomed.

    2. Republicans drastically overestimate how bad Democratic governance. is They have ALWAYS done that. You simply disagree with what there doing but what they are doing has worked. Seattle has boomed. You just can’t handle it.

    If their governance is so bad why has the economy boomed?

  32. 32

    RE: pfft @ 31 – Apparently you’ve forgotten what I wrote just this morning. See post 152 here: https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2018/06/07/new-listing-absorption-falls-to-a-seven-year-low/#comments

    But no I am not a Republican and I did not vote for Trump. How bad is your memory anyway? If you can’t remember something from less than 12 hours ago, that’s pretty bad.

    As to your points, no I wouldn’t automatically say “and then how are they going to pay for it.” But the idea of funding some unknown is stupid, but that by definition is the Seattle City Council. And BTW, they’re apparently so stupid that they possibly violated open meeting laws in repealing the head tax. Total incompetence, but again, not something unexpected.

  33. 33

    By pfft @ 31:

    “Why do you think Seattle government has contributed to Seattle’s strong economy, as opposed to the strong economy existing despite Seattle government?”

    1. Because the economy has boomed.

    2. Republicans drastically overestimate how bad Democratic governance. is They have ALWAYS done that. You simply disagree with what there doing but what they are doing has worked. Seattle has boomed. You just can’t handle it.

    ROTFLMAO. So basically you don’t have an answer. Rather obviously you didn’t take a course in logic in college. Do you even have a degree? That is like 10th-grade level thinking there, to be generous.

    Have you ever heard “correlation doesn’t mean causation?”

    As to why Seattle’s economy has succeeded despite Seattle’s government, it’s because companies with successful leadership have settled here, mainly from the beginning of their formation. They settle here because of the climate, proximity to transportation systems, an educated workforce, and a favorable state tax structure. And some of it has been just pure luck, like the founders of UPS, Boeing and Microsoft just having lived here. With the possible exception of the Port of Seattle, Seattle has been responsible for none of that, and more recently have tried to reverse some of that.

  34. 34
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Justme @ 21 – FYI – Real estate ETFs declined by 2% today.

  35. 35
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 32:

    RE: pfft @ 31 – Apparently you’ve forgotten what I wrote just this morning. See post 152 here: https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2018/06/07/new-listing-absorption-falls-to-a-seven-year-low/#comments

    But no I am not a Republican and I did not vote for Trump. How bad is your memory anyway? If you can’t remember something from less than 12 hours ago, that’s pretty bad.

    As to your points, no I wouldn’t automatically say “and then how are they going to pay for it.” But the idea of funding some unknown is stupid, but that by definition is the Seattle City Council. And BTW, they’re apparently so stupid that they possibly violated open meeting laws in repealing the head tax. Total incompetence, but again, not something unexpected.

    I never read what you posted so my perfect memory is in tact. I have one of the great memories. Many people, smart people even, think I have one of the greatest memories of all time. And that’s what many people are saying.

    YOu aren’t fooling me kary. if they had a plan you’d both attack the plan and say they had no way to pay for it. as soon as they came up with a way to pay for it you’d attack that too. I had to beg and plead to pry out a homeless plan from you guys after so much bashing of the homeless.

  36. 36
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Take a look at that US2Y! Will they invert the curve? Who knows. Are mortgage rates going up, most certainly!

    Good luck to all. Except Bezos.

  37. 37
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 33:

    By pfft @ 31:

    “Why do you think Seattle government has contributed to Seattle’s strong economy, as opposed to the strong economy existing despite Seattle government?”

    1. Because the economy has boomed.

    2. Republicans drastically overestimate how bad Democratic governance. is They have ALWAYS done that. You simply disagree with what there doing but what they are doing has worked. Seattle has boomed. You just can’t handle it.

    ROTFLMAO. So basically you don’t have an answer. Rather obviously you didn’t take a course in logic in college. Do you even have a degree? That is like 10th-grade level thinking there, to be generous.

    Have you ever heard “correlation doesn’t mean causation?”

    As to why Seattle’s economy has succeeded despite Seattle’s government, it’s because companies with successful leadership have settled here, mainly from the beginning of their formation. They settle here because of the climate, proximity to transportation systems, an educated workforce, and a favorable state tax structure. And some of it has been just pure luck, like the founders of UPS, Boeing and Microsoft just having lived here. With the possible exception of the Port of Seattle, Seattle has been responsible for none of that, and more recently have tried to reverse some of that.

    If the government is so bad how did they add so many good jobs? If the city council were Republican we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I don’ t closely follow city council politics. Obviously they’ve done enough as far as schools and infrastructure and all the basics that come with running a city. nobody is perfect. Amazon is a very successful company but has plenty wrong with it.

    You just can’t give Democrats credit, only blame. No need to explain I get it. Your definition of Democrats helping would probably them doing things Republicans would…

    “Have you ever heard “correlation doesn’t mean causation?”

    Ever think that your critique is just wrong? That Democratic governance isn’t nearly as bad as you think?

    I am sure Seattle will turn into Detroit anytime now…

  38. 38
    pedaltothemetal says:

    This article is about the Sydney market, but one comment would apply here as well.

    “Chinese buyers, a previous driver of demand, have also receded due to difficulties in moving cash from the mainland.”

    https://www.afr.com/real-estate/residential/sydneys-housing-bubble-deflates-as-loans-revisit-gfc-declines-20180613-h11bbj

  39. 39
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 35:

    I never read what you posted so my perfect memory is in tact. I have one of the great memories. Many people, smart people even, think I have one of the greatest memories of all time. And that’s what many people are saying.

    Link please. Otherwise, it is just FAKE NEWS. You are worse than Trump. Need I say more? LOL.

  40. 40
    Eastsider says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 36 – According to Mortgage News Daily, the 30yr mortgage rate @ 4.73% is within 6 basis point (0.06%) of 52 week high. With 2 more rate hikes to go, we will end the year with the 30yr mortgage rate at well over 5%. That should put a stop to home price increases IMO.

  41. 41
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 39:

    By pfft @ 35:

    I never read what you posted so my perfect memory is in tact. I have one of the great memories. Many people, smart people even, think I have one of the greatest memories of all time. And that’s what many people are saying.

    Link please. Otherwise, it is just FAKE NEWS. You are worse than Trump. Need I say more? LOL.

    ha ha.

    We will have a link either by the end of the week or next week or shortly there after but yeah it’s going to be great. A lot of great links and it’s going to be amazing. people are already raving about those links before they even see them it’s amazing.

  42. 42
    pfft says:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 38:

    This article is about the Sydney market, but one comment would apply here as well.

    “Chinese buyers, a previous driver of demand, have also receded due to difficulties in moving cash from the mainland.”

    https://www.afr.com/real-estate/residential/sydneys-housing-bubble-deflates-as-loans-revisit-gfc-declines-20180613-h11bbj

    that is interesting.

  43. 43
    Erik says:

    RE: kenmorem @ 23
    Buy a home owner occupied. Live there 2 years while you remodel. Lease for 2 years. Then sell. Pay no capital gains tax. In Seattle, you’d probably net $200k for your efforts, but probably more.

  44. 44

    By pfft @ 35:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 32:

    RE: pfft @ 31 – Apparently you’ve forgotten what I wrote just this morning. See post 152 here: https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2018/06/07/new-listing-absorption-falls-to-a-seven-year-low/#comments

    But no I am not a Republican and I did not vote for Trump. How bad is your memory anyway? If you can’t remember something from less than 12 hours ago, that’s pretty bad.

    As to your points, no I wouldn’t automatically say “and then how are they going to pay for it.” But the idea of funding some unknown is stupid, but that by definition is the Seattle City Council. And BTW, they’re apparently so stupid that they possibly violated open meeting laws in repealing the head tax. Total incompetence, but again, not something unexpected.

    I never read what you posted so my perfect memory is in tact. I have one of the great memories..

    I appreciate the humor, but that was hardly the only instance I’ve said that. Also, I’ve mentioned disrespectfully the tribalism in this country, referring to Democrats and Republicans, and also partisan Democrats and Republicans. Your memory has been proven bad in other instances, but to not know I do not associate with the Republican party (and more with Libertarians) is beyond belief–unless maybe you have a poor memory. If I were you I’d go with the bad memory since the alternative is not a good one.

  45. 45
    David says:

    I do business in China and capital controls have been in effect for may years now. I think the cutoff limit is $25k without getting Government approval. That being said, I have recently gotten a $300k asset sent out of China as a way around it. Sold it on the open market with a proper contract. Terribly non-liquid.

    However, I’ve also recently been involved with Chinese investment companies who invest directly into the US. So I know money can flow – with Communist Chinese approval.

    I’m highly suspicious of Chinese motives these days with all the nationalistic talk coming out of the central government. Nationalistic talk in China is the same as racist propaganda to an American.

    By pedaltothemetal @ 38:

    This article is about the Sydney market, but one comment would apply here as well.

    “Chinese buyers, a previous driver of demand, have also receded due to difficulties in moving cash from the mainland.”

    https://www.afr.com/real-estate/residential/sydneys-housing-bubble-deflates-as-loans-revisit-gfc-declines-20180613-h11bbj

  46. 46
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 44:

    By pfft @ 35:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 32:

    RE: pfft @ 31 – Apparently you’ve forgotten what I wrote just this morning. See post 152 here: https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2018/06/07/new-listing-absorption-falls-to-a-seven-year-low/#comments

    But no I am not a Republican and I did not vote for Trump. How bad is your memory anyway? If you can’t remember something from less than 12 hours ago, that’s pretty bad.

    As to your points, no I wouldn’t automatically say “and then how are they going to pay for it.” But the idea of funding some unknown is stupid, but that by definition is the Seattle City Council. And BTW, they’re apparently so stupid that they possibly violated open meeting laws in repealing the head tax. Total incompetence, but again, not something unexpected.

    I never read what you posted so my perfect memory is in tact. I have one of the great memories..

    I appreciate the humor, but that was hardly the only instance I’ve said that. Also, I’ve mentioned disrespectfully the tribalism in this country, referring to Democrats and Republicans, and also partisan Democrats and Republicans. Your memory has been proven bad in other instances, but to not know I do not associate with the Republican party (and more with Libertarians) is beyond belief–unless maybe you have a poor memory. If I were you I’d go with the bad memory since the alternative is not a good one.

    I’ve never ever heard you associate with Libertarians at all so…

    “Your memory has been proven bad in other instances”

    Nope. For instance, you never answered whether you thought anti-housing discrimination laws were anti-landlord. Are sprinklers, fire escapes, fire alarms and etc anti-landlord? Can a landlord kick out a gay tenant anytime they want? Kick them right out on the street and into possible homelessness? What if a muslim doesn’t want to rent to Christians? How will he tell if s/he is a Christian? What if the family was baptized but don’t go to church? The devil is in the details.

    Being anti-regulation is great until you get into the details. Just google the Triangle fire in NYC. Trump lobbied against his building getting sprinklers and a man died just recently in his building because of a fire. The sprinkler system might have saved his life.

  47. 47
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Erik @ 43

    Only paper gains till you sell. It is only a paper moon. Sailing over a cardboard sea

  48. 48
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Bubbles are fun aren’t they:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/13/much-of-bitcoins-2017-boom-was-market-manipulation-researcher-says.html

    Seattle is awesome, because it’s so awesome, and turtles all the way down!!!!

    Your resident h1b should know the turtle reference:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

  49. 49
    Blurtman says:

    A cooling off, but not a crash?

    “Mortgage rates moved higher today, following the Fed’s much-anticipated policy announcement. Although the Fed changed quite a few words from the announcement’s previous iteration (far more than normal), it wasn’t the announcement itself that did the damage. Rather, it was the Fed members’ economic projections, which include an assessment of where the Fed Funds Rate will likely be at the end of the next few years.

    Specifically, a few of the Fed members who’d been holding out for slightly lower rates in 2018 moved their forecasts up enough to increase the odds of a 4th rate hike by December. This was already a strong possibility, but before today, those in the “3 hike” camp had a stronger case.

    While the Fed’s rate doesn’t directly affect 30yr fixed mortgage rates, shifts in the Fed’s rate hike outlook definitely do. In the bigger picture, this was a fairly minor adjustment. Moreover, rates markets were somewhat soothed by the press conference with Fed Chair Powell, which followed half an hour after the announcement.

    The net effect was a slight increase in rates that leaves us a little bit closer to the 7-year highs seen in mid-May. Tomorrow morning brings more risk with the European Central Bank’s policy announcement. Big moves in either direction are a possibility.”

    http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consumer_rates/858116.aspx

  50. 50

    Yet another issue with the selection of building material and/or installation thereof. The construction of this building was built in 2011, and the plumbing has apparently been nothing but problematic.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/pricey-seattle-apartment-tower-ripping-out-pipes-to-fix-leaks-as-tenants-fume/

  51. 51

    By pfft @ 46:

    I’ve never ever heard you associate with Libertarians at all so…

    I’ve mentioned that several times. Again, it’s your memory.

    “Your memory has been proven bad in other instances”

    Nope. For instance, you never answered whether you thought anti-housing discrimination laws were anti-landlord. Are sprinklers, fire escapes, fire alarms and etc anti-landlord? Can a landlord kick out a gay tenant anytime they want? Kick them right out on the street and into possible homelessness? What if a muslim doesn’t want to rent to Christians? How will he tell if s/he is a Christian? What if the family was baptized but don’t go to church? The devil is in the details.

    Have I said anything against those things? Also, while fire codes tend to be local, they are also based on national codes. There are national and state rules on virtually all of the things you mention, and I don’t have a problem with Seattle enforcing any of that, along with HUD.

    What I’m talking about is Seattle going above and beyond. Rent controls, restricting how landlords interact with applicants, the eviction process, etc.

    The one place they probably have been better than the state is dealing with the issue of renting to people with criminal records. They have provided much better guidance on what is legal/illegal than the state.

  52. 52

    By pedaltothemetal @ 48:

    Bubbles are fun aren’t they:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/13/much-of-bitcoins-2017-boom-was-market-manipulation-researcher-says.html

    Bitcoin is sort of the ultimate intangible tulip. About the only thing that makes sense with bitcoin is that it goes up when there’s international uncertainty/crisis. In that regard it makes sense it’s been falling recently given the Trump/Kim meeting. But I do find it sort of funny that there are bitcoin analysts who make predictions of where it’s headed, etc.

  53. 53

    RE: pfft @ 46 – This is actually a good example of what I’m talking about in the landlord/tenant area. Impacting how landlords collect deposits, last month rent, etc. Apparently they either: (1) Think tenants can cause less damage to an apartment/house during the first month of rental; or (2) They are anti-landlord and want the landlord to be more exposed to the risks of tenants damaging their apartments/houses. Amazing how tenants in all the rest of the state don’t need these protections and the world works just fine.

    https://library.municode.com/wa/seattle/codes/municipal_code?nodeId=TIT7COPR_CH7.24REAGRE_7.24.035SEDENOMOFE

  54. 54

    RE: Blurtman @ 49
    I Hope You’re Right

    My trending data the last 5 months contradicts your hopes….it shows long-term CDs [30 yr saving interest] is already 3% and that’s up from 2% at the beginning of 2018. These rates have reached the bottom 6 months ago and the rise is still being plotted for 2018.

    The MSM hits on this fact too, but glosses it over like they always do….LOL

    BTW, a healthy economy has higher mortgage rates so why is this bad in general?

  55. 55

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 47
    Yes Petaltothemetal

    It ain’t money in your pocket until the escrow paper ink dries…”the haughty man goeth before the fall” as the Bible tells us…

  56. 56
    Just Sold says:

    We also just sold! First time buyer in 2015. Thought about buying in 2011, but had a favorable rent situation. Then saw our rents getting higher and higher and realized a mortgage would then become the favorable situation. Bought a fixer in Rainier Beach w/in half mile of light rail for $220k with only 3% down. Had a small gift to help us with immediate renovations but once our “value” started increasing we took out a HELOC to get more work done quicker.

    Fast forward with the house in great shape relatively speaking, my wife got a offered a job on the peninsula. Now we contemplated renting vs selling… Considered tax free sale mentioned above vs future appreciation (as I think Seattle may level out but will continue to gain in the long run) minus maintenance/repairs/another remodel once renters have their way at the place. With the large amount of apartments coming on line now and for the foreseeable future, that potential surplus I felt would effect our life as landlords in a negative way. We decided to take the money despite Erik’s belief of the 18yr cycle. But how much money we had no idea?

    We had very few comps for our house and had to come in low, below what I would have been happy with. But we were confident that the house was well presented and would generate traffic so we took the risk. We were right! Redfin said our house would “sell faster than 98% of all other homes in area”. Ardelle had a simple logarithm for views/favorites equaling number of offers that I can’t recall, I was watching our stats hoping to compare it with Ardelles math. We ended with 14 offers and went $145k over ask in Rainier Beach essentially. Crazy. The only regret that I have is that we love this house and will miss it. We won’t miss Seattle traffic though!

    Thank you Seattle Bubble for all your market insights and to all you commenters for great advice! That is, once you sift through all the other crap on here;) Peace out!

  57. 57
    Jake says:

    In Rainier Valley at least, I am seeing houses stay on the market much longer than expected for the first time in a few years. I’m not sure if this is just an aberration, but it is interesting nonetheless. There are always crappy homes that stay listed for months, but now your general run of the mill homes are not getting sold right away.

  58. 58
    Just Sold says:

    RE: Jake @ 57
    I’ve noticed that as well Jake, I think that I listed at just the right time. But at the time we thought having an open house land on Mother’s Day was a questionable idea? Inventory was a little lower then and it’s interesting how it could potentially swing so quickly. Let’s see what comes on the market today, if quite a few more houses pop up down here that “absorbsion rate” could level out prices really quick?

  59. 59

    By Jake @ 57:

    In Rainier Valley at least, I am seeing houses stay on the market much longer than expected for the first time in a few years. I’m not sure if this is just an aberration, but it is interesting nonetheless. There are always crappy homes that stay listed for months, but now your general run of the mill homes are not getting sold right away.

    I’ve seen areas where it’s just the opposite–not necessarily shorter sale periods but rapidly escalating prices even today.

    As to your area it could be just price–agents and sellers getting ahead of the market.

    As I’ve mentioned before, if a nearly identical place is listed for $500,000 and sells for $570,000, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the subject property should be listed for $570,000 (or $500,000 for that matter). Agents (and sellers) need to not only look at the sold price but the list price that resulted in the sold price. It can be tricky, and being greedy is often not a seller’s friend.

    From the opposite side, the volatile market is also tough for buyers. Sometimes the pending sales better indicate where the market is, and in fact prove to be a much better indicator of value than the sold comps. Unfortunately listing agents are reluctant to give out the sold price on pending listings, so some guessing is required. Usually though they will disclose if they received multiple offers. But if a house goes pending within 6 days, chances are that the offer was not significantly below the list price.

  60. 60
    Brian says:

    RE: Just Sold @ 56

    I think I found your place. Nicely done, almost 3x the value in 3 years.

    Good photos, lured in the buyers with a “low” price, and tons of Favorites to X-outs like you said per Ardell’s formula.

  61. 61
    Erik says:

    RE: Just Sold @ 56
    Love hearing the success stories! It’s a good time to sell as we may be leveling off. You did it right.

    If you are as greedy as me, you’d consider renting the next place out and buying more. Think if you owned 10 with similar profits. Why you could retire early!

  62. 62
  63. 63
    N says:

    @ ESS – Interesting line from your link:

    “Last year, Attom found co-buying in 33% of San Francisco sales. Now it’s up to 38%. It accounted for 26% of sales in Seattle last year, and had climbed to 28% this year. “

  64. 64
    ess says:

    By N @ 63:

    @ ESS – Interesting line from your link:

    “Last year, Attom found co-buying in 33% of San Francisco sales. Now it’s up to 38%. It accounted for 26% of sales in Seattle last year, and had climbed to 28% this year. “

    N
    It would interesting to know if it is co-habitating couples, real estate investors, friends who all need a place to live or parents/children or other permutations that is driving the co-buying market. Seems like a pretty substantial number to me.

  65. 65

    RE: ess @ 64 – I think I read first time buyers are up, so maybe it is cohabitating couples.

  66. 66

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    In contrast, the state has a new program going into effect, which only applies to certain low-income people receiving rental benefits. It provides up to $5,000 of funds to pay for damages caused by such tenants, the thinking being that such an amount is greater than what other tenants would have as a deposit, and thus make these tenants more desirable.

    https://crosscut.com/2018/06/state-takes-housing-and-homelessness-7-new-laws

    The Seattle approach is just something designed to punish landlords. The state approach is designed to help people in need.

  67. 67

    RE: Erik @ 43
    You Pay No Capital Gains

    If the money ya made in real estate is put back in your new flipper, etc, etc…

    Any cash ya keep above the old price ya paid is capital gains….ya got 3 years to invest the booty or its taxed….it sounds like you’re compliant Erik.

  68. 68

    RE: softwarengineer @ 67
    Now, If Trump’s Tax Plan Changed This Capital Gain Equation

    All our past comments are moot….LOL

  69. 69

    By softwarengineer @ 67:

    RE: Erik @ 43
    You Pay No Capital Gains

    If the money ya made in real estate is put back in your new flipper, etc, etc…

    Any cash ya keep above the old price ya paid is capital gains….ya got 3 years to invest the booty or its taxed….it sounds like you’re compliant Erik.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not right. There is no three year rule, and if you do enough flipping there’s even the possibility of not having capital gains treatment (not that Erik is at risk of that–but Zillow and Redfin would be).

  70. 70

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 65

    The Cities named as having the highest % of co-buyers also have the highest % of LGBT population and possibly the lowest % of couples (both LGBT and Straight couples) who bother to get formally married.

    I wouldn’t read too much into that % increase in co-buyers as I’m pretty the the % of people getting formally married has been going down for decades and the flip side of that is they are “co-buyers” when they buy their home.

  71. 71
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 69

    I’m only aware of one way to avoid capital gains on investment real estate – a 1031 exchange.

    The other way is to just live for two years in each property (2 years out of 5 rule) and then sell – and keep the gains tax free for any other purchase.

    The only other way is tax loss harvesting – typically through poorly performing stocks. But that means you made a bad investment in something else. This seems like a terrible focus to avoid taxes.

    “There is no three year rule, and if you do enough flipping there’s even the possibility of not having capital gains treatment…”

  72. 72

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 70RE: David @ 71 – I would agree with both of you on those two topics.

    As to Ardell’s post, now that LGBT couples can marry, are you suggesting that they have more common sense than heterosexual couples? ;-)

  73. 73
    N says:

    There has been reports of increased multi-generational housing as well in recent years, not sure if that is a temporary trend due to economic conditions or a long term trend, but that could play somewhat into higher co-buyers.

  74. 74
    Bubble Trouble says:

    I haven’t read all the comments, but I’m guessing 30% of them are blaming Trump? LOL

  75. 75
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    As usual every policy enacted by socialists under the guise of helping “the poor” ends up hurting those very people. With insane rules like this, you’d have to also be insane to own rental property in Seattle. Add to that the new rule that forces landlords to accept Section 8, and you’re basically driving every mom and pop landlord out of business. Which means less supply, which means higher prices.

  76. 76
    N says:

    To back up much of what Kary has said, the state of Washington is considered to be very tenant friendly with regards to it’s landlord-tenant laws.

  77. 77

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

  78. 78
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    Seattle City Council has been socialist for decades. As have city councils in most big cities.

  79. 79
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    In contrast, the state has a new program going into effect, which only applies to certain low-income people receiving rental benefits. It provides up to $5,000 of funds to pay for damages caused by such tenants, the thinking being that such an amount is greater than what other tenants would have as a deposit, and thus make these tenants more desirable.

    https://crosscut.com/2018/06/state-takes-housing-and-homelessness-7-new-laws

    The Seattle approach is just something designed to punish landlords. The state approach is designed to help people in need.

    Tenants can do waaaaay more than $5K in damage without breaking a sweat. The problem isn’t the amount, it’s the people. I know a guy who had $12K in damage on a rental. His tenants were the exact kind of people you should never rent to; on govt aid and a situation with a single mom, boyfriend and boyfriend’s mom all living together. I suppose having that $5K would be better than nothing, but I still wouldn’t touch these people with a 10 foot Czech.

  80. 80
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 75:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    As usual every policy enacted by socialists under the guise of helping “the poor” ends up hurting those very people.

    wrong. Obamacare, medicare, SS and food stamps. they all helped. when SS was passed the number of seniors living in poverty collapsed.

    btw apparently we have a shortage of sand, which is critical for some construction.

    World Faces Global Sand Shortage
    https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-sand-shortage

    hide your beach.

  81. 81
    pfft says:

    By N @ 73:

    There has been reports of increased multi-generational housing as well in recent years, not sure if that is a temporary trend due to economic conditions or a long term trend, but that could play somewhat into higher co-buyers.

    aging boomers and high rents?

  82. 82
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    Or maybe you’re just wrong? Like about raising the min wage. We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment… I guess only Republicans know about secondary effects?

    what are the secondary effects of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum barely having enough money each week to get by? I’ll give you a hint, one of them is increased spending on the homeless.

  83. 83
    pfft says:

    Is it every a good idea to have a FSBO? I have seen a house sit for awhile and the only thing I’ve seen them do is lower the sign. seriously.

  84. 84
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By pfft @ 80:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 75:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    As usual every policy enacted by socialists under the guise of helping “the poor” ends up hurting those very people.

    wrong. Obamacare, medicare, SS and food stamps. they all helped. when SS was passed the number of seniors living in poverty collapsed.

    btw apparently we have a shortage of sand, which is critical for some construction.

    World Faces Global Sand Shortage
    https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-sand-shortage

    hide your beach.

    Obamacare helped? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Oh man you are precious. Truly, you are.

  85. 85
    Bubble Trouble says:

    By pfft @ 82:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    Or maybe you’re just wrong? Like about raising the min wage. We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment… I guess only Republicans know about secondary effects?

    what are the secondary effects of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum barely having enough money each week to get by? I’ll give you a hint, one of them is increased spending on the homeless.

    Saying the same nonsense over and over doesn’t it make it less wrong dude. Minimum wage hurts workers, socialism never works. Not ever. Not even close. All these feel good policies like rent control, forcing section 8 etc only increases rents in the long run. This is Econ 101 yet people like you refuse to accept the facts.

    Have you heard about all fast food joints going to kiosks? Hmmm, you don’t suppose $15/hr minimum wage had anything to do with that do you? Nah. It’s just a coincidence that a year or two after this insanity took place, kiosks are now replacing hundreds of thousands of low end jobs. But hey man, you guys STUCK IT TO THE MAN!!!! so it’s all good right? But I suppose it’s also good for you because a few million people on welfare for life = millions of guaranteed Democrat voters. Very shrewd of you.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-increases-spur-fast-food-chains-to-consider-automation-2018-1

    “Minimum wage increases are sending shock waves across the fast-food industry. On Tuesday, Jack in the Box’s CEO said the fast-food chain is considering swapping some cashiers with robots as the minimum wage rises in California. “As we see the rising costs of labor, it just makes sense” to consider adding new automated technology, CEO Leonard Comma said Tuesday at the ICR Conference.”

    Gee who could have predicted this would happen?

  86. 86
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 79:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    In contrast, the state has a new program going into effect, which only applies to certain low-income people receiving rental benefits. It provides up to $5,000 of funds to pay for damages caused by such tenants, the thinking being that such an amount is greater than what other tenants would have as a deposit, and thus make these tenants more desirable.

    https://crosscut.com/2018/06/state-takes-housing-and-homelessness-7-new-laws

    The Seattle approach is just something designed to punish landlords. The state approach is designed to help people in need.

    His tenants were the exact kind of people you should never rent to

    where they minorities too?

  87. 87
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 84:

    By pfft @ 82:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    Or maybe you’re just wrong? Like about raising the min wage. We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment… I guess only Republicans know about secondary effects?

    what are the secondary effects of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum barely having enough money each week to get by? I’ll give you a hint, one of them is increased spending on the homeless.

    Saying the same nonsense over and over doesn’t it make it less wrong dude. Minimum wage hurts workers, socialism never works. Not ever. Not even close. All these feel good policies like rent control, forcing section 8 etc only increases rents in the long run. This is Econ 101 yet people like you refuse to accept the facts.

    Have you heard about all fast food joints going to kiosks? Hmmm, you don’t suppose $15/hr minimum wage had anything to do with that do you? Nah. It’s just a coincidence that a year or two after this insanity took place, kiosks are now replacing hundreds of thousands of low end jobs. But hey man, you guys STUCK IT TO THE MAN!!!! so it’s all good right? But I suppose it’s also good for you because a few million people on welfare for life = millions of guaranteed Democrat voters. Very shrewd of you.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-increases-spur-fast-food-chains-to-consider-automation-2018-1

    “Minimum wage increases are sending shock waves across the fast-food industry. On Tuesday, Jack in the Box’s CEO said the fast-food chain is considering swapping some cashiers with robots as the minimum wage rises in California. “As we see the rising costs of labor, it just makes sense” to consider adding new automated technology, CEO Leonard Comma said Tuesday at the ICR Conference.”

    Gee who could have predicted this would happen?

    Again, study after study after study shows that raising the min wage doesn’t hurt employment. THAT is literally econ 101.

    “This is Econ 101 yet people like you refuse to accept the facts.”

    Perhaps the facts are too counterintuitive for you? Min wage workers will spend the money. turnover and productivity will increase. If you own a fast food joint how many of your customers do you think earn min wage? when you raise the wage you have customers who can spend more money!

    Every time the min wage is raised we have some scare story from some restaurant but studies show the opposite. I worked one summer during college at a fast food place when they raised the min wage. We got our raises EARLY and nobody was let go.

  88. 88

    By pfft @ 87:

    Again, study after study after study shows that raising the min wage doesn’t hurt employment. THAT is literally econ 101.

    Ah, no it’s not. Rather obviously you’ve never taken an economics course.

    But as to your point about study after study, there have only been three areas which have had significant increases in minimum wage–Seattle, Sea-Tac and the Silicon Valley. Any study of any other place at any other time is irrelevant because the minimum wage lags inflation. Any efficiency adjustments the employers would have made would have been made the time before the minimum wage was raised. In real dollars the minimum wage has not been rising, and is below where it was in the 1970s, so it’s not surprising that you’d not see a significant effect on employment of a non-change.

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2017/01/03154321/FT_17.01.03_minWage_1938_2016.png

    I know you like to throw around peer review nonsense, but the Seattle study indicated just the opposite of what you claim. And the study on restaurant people that didn’t show that impact was studying the industry you’d expect to have the least impact (excluding fast food). And there was one study of the Silicon Valley area, but I’m not familiar with that at all.

    But there’s no way that forcing anyone to pay significantly more for anything is not going to result in a negative impact on purchasing. You yourself repeatedly note that with your concern about tariffs. Wages are no different, and that is Econ 101.

  89. 89
    Jake says:

    @85 “Have you heard about all fast food joints going to kiosks? Hmmm, you don’t suppose $15/hr minimum wage had anything to do with that do you? ”

    Lol. Fast food will automate regardless of what the minimum wage is. That groundwork has been laid down a long time ago for this crap. If you think that was all in reaction to the minimum wage you are just wrong.

  90. 90

    By Jake @ 89:

    @85 “Have you heard about all fast food joints going to kiosks? Hmmm, you don’t suppose $15/hr minimum wage had anything to do with that do you? ”

    Lol. Fast food will automate regardless of what the minimum wage is. That groundwork has been laid down a long time ago for this crap. If you think that was all in reaction to the minimum wage you are just wrong.

    I would agree, but it does affect the timing and speed of adaptation.

  91. 91
    David says:

    RE: pfft @ 87 – This is because they usually raise the minimum wage after the constructuve minimum wage is already above what the politicians raise it to.

    Let’s see them raise the minimum wage to $80/hour. Then we will see what their fascist medaling will do.

    Raising the min wage is a scam usually to make people think the politicians are actually responsible for you having a job/money.

  92. 92
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 88:

    By pfft @ 87:

    Again, study after study after study shows that raising the min wage doesn’t hurt employment. THAT is literally econ 101.

    Ah, no it’s not. Rather obviously you’ve never taken an economics course.

    But as to your point about study after study, there have only been three areas which have had significant increases in minimum wage–Seattle, Sea-Tac and the Silicon Valley. Any study of any other place at any other time is irrelevant because the minimum wage lags inflation. Any efficiency adjustments the employers would have made would have been made the time before the minimum wage was raised. In real dollars the minimum wage has not been rising, and is below where it was in the 1970s, so it’s not surprising that you’d not see a significant effect on employment of a non-change.

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2017/01/03154321/FT_17.01.03_minWage_1938_2016.png

    I know you like to throw around peer review nonsense, but the Seattle study indicated just the opposite of what you claim. And the study on restaurant people that didn’t show that impact was studying the industry you’d expect to have the least impact (excluding fast food). And there was one study of the Silicon Valley area, but I’m not familiar with that at all.

    But there’s no way that forcing anyone to pay significantly more for anything is not going to result in a negative impact on purchasing. You yourself repeatedly note that with your concern about tariffs. Wages are no different, and that is Econ 101.

    The Seattle min wage study has had so many holes put in it. Berkley followed up and proved the study was wrong and had serious flaws(no peer-review and no public data.

    The min wage is well-studied. there is no discernible effect on employment.

    “In real dollars the minimum wage has not been rising, and is below where it was in the 1970s, so it’s not surprising that you’d not see a significant effect on employment of a non-change.”

    did you just concede my point?

    Studies show min wage doesn’t have an effect on on employment but tariffs DO. Republicans don’t believe in the min wage because it’s counterintuitive(to them). that is why we do studies!!!!!!!!

    Profressional baseball players used to not lift weights. Why would they? lifting weights hurts your muscles. it breaks them down and damages them(sarcasm).

  93. 93
    pfft says:

    By David @ 91:

    RE: pfft @ 87 – This is because they usually raise the minimum wage after the constructuve minimum wage is already above what the politicians raise it to.

    Let’s see them raise the minimum wage to $80/hour. Then we will see what their fascist medaling will do.

    Raising the min wage is a scam usually to make people think the politicians are actually responsible for you having a job/money.

    no, it’s to give people at the bottom more money. you’re thinking of tax cuts for the rich and large corporations.

    btw, researches acknowledge there is a limit to how hight the min wage should go.

  94. 94

    By pfft @ 92:

    “In real dollars the minimum wage has not been rising, and is below where it was in the 1970s, so it’s not surprising that you’d not see a significant effect on employment of a non-change.”

    did you just concede my point?

    Wow, you say that, but expect us to believe you understand complex economic studies?

    Let me say this again, so that maybe you’ll understand. With the exception of three areas of the country, all fairly recently, all minimum wage increases have been minimal, and lagged inflation. So for all those other minimum wage increases you would not expect to see a significant impact on employment because: (1) They were nominal amounts; and (2) They were not even catching up with the effects of inflation. You wouldn’t need a study to prove that the typical minimum wage increase (e.g. not one to $15 per hour) wouldn’t significantly affect employment.

    Need I remind you that I am in favor of increases in the minimum wage, such as the recent Washington one to $11.20. That’s actually a bit above what the minimum wage was back in the mid-70s, in adjusted dollars. $15 is well above what minimum wage was back then.

  95. 95
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 94:

    By pfft @ 92:

    “In real dollars the minimum wage has not been rising, and is below where it was in the 1970s, so it’s not surprising that you’d not see a significant effect on employment of a non-change.”

    did you just concede my point?

    Wow, you say that, but expect us to believe you understand complex economic studies?

    Let me say this again, so that maybe you’ll understand. With the exception of three areas of the country, all fairly recently, all minimum wage increases have been minimal, and lagged inflation. So for all those other minimum wage increases you would not expect to see a significant impact on employment because: (1) They were nominal amounts; and (2) They were not even catching up with the effects of inflation. You wouldn’t need a study to prove that the typical minimum wage increase (e.g. not one to $15 per hour) wouldn’t significantly affect employment.

    Need I remind you that I am in favor of increases in the minimum wage, such as the recent Washington one to $11.20. That’s actually a bit above what the minimum wage was back in the mid-70s, in adjusted dollars. $15 is well above what minimum wage was back then.

    ummm…I don’t know where to start. no to everything and could you post some sources. before raising the minimum wage was in it of itself a bad thing. now it’s not but in a different context it is? mmm…what?

    “You wouldn’t need a study to prove that the typical minimum wage increase (e.g. not one to $15 per hour) wouldn’t significantly affect employment.”

    You’ve spend a lot of time arguing the complete opposite. instead of questioning my memory are you now moving the goalposts.

    are you saying the real minimum wage is lower than years ago and will have a lot more room to go up without hurting the economy. I don’t think you understand that is what you’re saying.

    the real min wage is down about 40%. even more if you think the government is understating inflation.

    http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/minimum-wage-since-1938/

    btw there is a good book on memory called “Moonwalking with Einstein.”

  96. 96

    RE: pfft @ 95 – I’ve not spent a lot of time arguing the opposite, because the context has always been Seattle’s minimum wage. I’ve said I’m not against more modest increases in the minimum wage and even said Seatac is different because they have a captive employment base there due to the airport.

    I don’t think even those modest increases in minimum wage are the answer to our economic problems though. There is a real lack of demand for and/or oversupply of labor in our economy and that’s why earnings have been so stagnant. Part of that is improved transportation systems. 50 years ago no one would have thought it likely that half the clothes washers sold would come from Asia–but that they can means our workers are competing with many more workers. Greater supply of labor means lower prices for labor.

  97. 97

    I stumbled across this article this morning, which says many of the things I’ve been saying about our economy for a while now.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/15/for-the-biggest-group-of-american-workers-wages-arent-just-flat-theyre-falling/?utm_term=.e533177cef3f

    But why is wage growth so tepid?

    This problem is not new: Slow wage growth bedeviled the Obama administration, as well.

    Economists broadly disagree about the cause of persistently weak wage growth, offering a variety of possible explanations.

    Ernie Tedeschi, a former treasury official under President Barack Obama, said the unemployment rate may create a misleadingly positive impression of the health of the jobs market, given how many Americans dropped out of the labor force during the Great Recession.

    Weaker union rights for workers may also be cutting into their ability to force pay increases from their bosses, said Jared Bernstein, who served as an economic adviser to Vice President Joe Biden.

  98. 98

    And here is more on an older topic—the nonsense idea that costs (including taxes) just get passed along to the consumer. Also that Washington’s tax system is the most regressive because the false analysis assumes that tenants pay their landlords’ real estate taxes.

    As we all know, King County area real estate taxes skyrocketed this year due to the McCleary decision. What was the rate of increase on rents for single-family homes? Almost nothing, and much lower than prior years.

    https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Single-family-home-rents-W-1020×1020.jpg

  99. 99

    Also, the median apartment rent has been dropping in Seattle, notwithstanding the fact that a lot of new inventory is presumably generating higher revenue than the older inventory. That supply meant the market forces prevented landlords from passing along their tax increases.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/12/rent-prices-are-falling-in-these-7-major-u-s-cities.html

  100. 100

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 69
    I’m Not a Tax Accountant and Either are You Kary

    Attorneys seek their advice too, because its volatile and unknown….that said, money made on capital gains that is invested in rentals has the same rules as Erik’s owner occupied re-investment of last home sold profits? I seriously doubt it. It has a bad ring to my tax law experience….but needs checking out.

    Landlord Flipper units making capital gains after flip cash is taxed. And likely has harsher tax rules than owner occupied capital gains? Will Trump’s new tax laws support this mesmerization policy? I doubt it will address it all [capital gains is likely just normal reported income to tax immediately now?]? Lord only knows, but the Trump standard deduction doubling has to get its money from some other budget, why not flipper capital gains. Trump knows these laws well BTW.

  101. 101

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 99
    If Ya Come to Seattle

    Bring lots of property tax and maintenance cash….if ya rent, be ready for $2000 apartments [and going up to pass on costs] and per capita wages for new hires is like $10-15/hr….it is what it is.

    I see Kansas is attracting large Latino population now….they know where the bargains are…

  102. 102

    RE: pfft @ 95
    Yes Pffft

    Without shiny new manufacturing tools in America to make all our own Manufactured Engineering stuff again….this McDonalds Warehouse/Burger Flipping economy in Seattle is a complete joke. Seattle does not have enough work to do….past history proves it too, when we made all our own stuff with half the population too.

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/m/ffb07757-f875-37e9-9e41-a3dc1d8db0fd/ss_for-the-biggest-group-of.html

  103. 103

    I’m On My Second Mug of Yuban :-)

    Ya got SWE on an investigative mood on federal tax impacts of real estate capital gains for 2018:

    http://www.noradarealestate.com/blog/capital-gains-tax-on-real-estate-2018/

    As you can see, its as clear as mud….it reminds me Obamacare Bill phone book interpretations….varies from reader to reader…LOL

  104. 104
    David says:

    As previously stated by me, Case-Shiller says that historic returns on housing are 0%.

    I can tell from the different markets I track in METRO-Seattle that housing prices have stabilized. Confusing to me because I thought the housing market went gonzo in the Summer months approaching the end of the school year.

    Of course, it was a certainty that housing has an upper limit for increases annually.

    A $500k house has to rise about $850 a month to keep up with inflation. So if Case-Shiller is accurate, then housing prices will probably stabilize and NOT have monthly increases in value. Thus, inflation & taxes will ultimately destroy the equity appreciation people have enjoyed. The psychological wealth effect will take time to dissipate.

    Thus pointing out the problem with using illiquid residential real estate to gain net worth. Residential must be rented to create compounding returns by investing in other more liquid investments. However, Seattle has such high taxes and initial costs for the house that I don’t see how landlords can expect to beat the 6.89% historical return on the stock market.

    IMO, sell your equity and invest elsewhere other than Seattle residential.

  105. 105
    greg says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 85:

    By pfft @ 82:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    RE: Bubble Trouble @ 75 – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    Or maybe you’re just wrong? Like about raising the min wage. We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment… I guess only Republicans know about secondary effects?

    what are the secondary effects of people at the lower end of the economic spectrum barely having enough money each week to get by? I’ll give you a hint, one of them is increased spending on the homeless.

    Saying the same nonsense over and over doesn’t it make it less wrong dude. Minimum wage hurts workers, socialism never works. Not ever. Not even close. All these feel good policies like rent control, forcing section 8 etc only increases rents in the long run. This is Econ 101 yet people like you refuse to accept the facts.

    Have you heard about all fast food joints going to kiosks? Hmmm, you don’t suppose $15/hr minimum wage had anything to do with that do you? Nah. It’s just a coincidence that a year or two after this insanity took place, kiosks are now replacing hundreds of thousands of low end jobs. But hey man, you guys STUCK IT TO THE MAN!!!! so it’s all good right? But I suppose it’s also good for you because a few million people on welfare for life = millions of guaranteed Democrat voters. Very shrewd of you.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-increases-spur-fast-food-chains-to-consider-automation-2018-1

    “Minimum wage increases are sending shock waves across the fast-food industry. On Tuesday, Jack in the Box’s CEO said the fast-food chain is considering swapping some cashiers with robots as the minimum wage rises in California. “As we see the rising costs of labor, it just makes sense” to consider adding new automated technology, CEO Leonard Comma said Tuesday at the ICR Conference.”

    Gee who could have predicted this would happen?

    Dude you have lost your mind. Min wages work, we know this because there are many many studies confirming it.

    But i am a nice guy so instead of calling you stupid, i will just remind you the argument is NOT do min wages work, the arguement is HOW HIGH can you go before it stops working and becomes counterproductive.

    And Frankly this is the whole problem with the “brain washed” right wingers. Instead of using your god given brain, you just spout the shite you hear on some extremist podcast or from some fox news presenter.

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    Min wages, is NOT socialism you dope, i suggest you actually look it up and learn.

    You might be confused because you live is a country that has a very extreme form of capitalism, maybe that is why you are getting mixed up…..

  106. 106
    Eastsider says:

    By greg @ 105:

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    So pfft (“We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment“) is wrong. LOL.

    I can confirm that many cashiers at airport McDonalds have lost their jobs. It is coming to a restaurant near you… well before the minimum (or maximum?) wage hits $15/hr.

  107. 107
    whatsmyname says:

    By Eastsider @ 106:

    By greg @ 105:

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    So pfft (“We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment“) is wrong. LOL.

    I can confirm that many cashiers at airport McDonalds have lost their jobs. It is coming to a restaurant near you… well before the minimum (or maximum?) wage hits $15/hr.

    If you can show that this is already occurring where the Seattle minimum wage is not in place, how does it follow that the later potential arrival of that same thing in Seattle be attributed to the Seattle minimum wage?

  108. 108

    By Eastsider @ 106:

    By greg @ 105:

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    So pfft (“We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment“) is wrong. LOL..

    I may have to re-think pfft and greg being the same person.

  109. 109

    By whatsmyname @ 107:

    [eastsider]
    I can confirm that many cashiers at airport McDonalds have lost their jobs. It is coming to a restaurant near you… well before the minimum (or maximum?) wage hits $15/hr.

    [whatsmyname]If you can show that this is already occurring where the Seattle minimum wage is not in place, how does it follow that the later potential arrival of that same thing in Seattle be attributed to the Seattle minimum wage?

    It’s not really clear, but he might be referring to SeaTac MCD’s, where the high minimum wage is already in effect. This year it’s $15.64.

    But to answer your question I think you’d need to look at where such machines are implemented, tracking the minimum wage in those locations. You would expect them to be implemented first in places with higher minimum wages, but it could also be places where it’s tough to hire employees (a low supply), or maybe a MCD owner who gets tired of dealing with their employees and would love to have a couple two three less around during operating hours.

  110. 110

    Kary L. Krismer @ 77:

    – It’s not just the socialists. The Seattle City Council has had that type of affect for decades. It’s due to an inability or unwillingness to consider secondary effects.

    [Bubbletrouble at 75] Seattle City Council has been socialist for decades. As have city councils in most big cities.

    I don’t think that’s true, but they do tend to be liberal because large city residents tend to be liberal.

    The real problem is that City Council is not exactly a highly desired position for politicians–it doesn’t attract qualified candidates. Has anyone ever used the Seattle City Council as a stepping stone to higher office? I don’t recall that happening. So what you basically have is low quality, low motivation candidates running for that office.

    Connecting up to the minimum wage discussion, we could probably get a better Seattle City Council by randomly selecting MCD workers to fill the spots.

  111. 111
    Eastsider says:

    By whatsmyname @ 107:

    If you can show that this is already occurring where the Seattle minimum wage is not in place, how does it follow that the later potential arrival of that same thing in Seattle be attributed to the Seattle minimum wage?

    Have you considered that some restaurant owners cannot afford paying them $14/hr, $13/hr, or $10/hr given their margins? You obviously have never run a business. There are many low margin businesses (Uwajimaya? Chinatown?) that can’t afford high minimum wages for some/all of their workers. These workers without skills will end up unemployable.

  112. 112

    By Eastsider @ 111:

    Have you considered that some restaurant owners cannot afford paying them $14/hr, $13/hr, or $10/hr given their margins? You obviously have never run a business. There are many low margin businesses (Uwajimaya? Chinatown?) that can’t afford high minimum wages for some/all of their workers. These workers without skills will end up unemployable.

    Or the point I’ve always made about Seattle going it alone, more skilled workers will come in from other areas, rendering Seattle’s citizens who are less skilled–those the Seattle City Council is supposed to represent–unemployable. That’s also an issue for Seatac, which doesn’t have as much of the issue you mention.

  113. 113
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 110

    BRUTAL ANALYSIS – because it is true.

    Worked out for Ed Murray though. He’s getting paid enough in forced retirement to take lots of trips to Lady Boy Bars in Thailand.

    ” So what you basically have is low quality, low motivation candidates running for that office.”

  114. 114
    pfft says:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 84:

    By pfft @ 80:

    By Bubble Trouble @ 75:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    Here’s a good distinction between Seattle and the state. As I mentioned above, Seattle limits the ability of landlords to collect deposits. The law applies to everyone, so even someone making over $100,000 can pay their deposit (and last month rent) over time. This places landlords are greater risk of loss.

    As usual every policy enacted by socialists under the guise of helping “the poor” ends up hurting those very people.

    wrong. Obamacare, medicare, SS and food stamps. they all helped. when SS was passed the number of seniors living in poverty collapsed.

    btw apparently we have a shortage of sand, which is critical for some construction.

    World Faces Global Sand Shortage
    https://www.npr.org/2017/07/21/538472671/world-faces-global-sand-shortage

    hide your beach.

    Obamacare helped? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Oh man you are precious. Truly, you are.

    It’s probably saved tens of thousands of lives. The uninsured rate plunged to all-time lows.

    If Obamacare is so bad, how come Republicans couldn’t repeal it? Some of it’s biggest supporters were in Trump country.

    Republican voter thought he hated ‘Obamacare,’ until he got sick
    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/republican-voter-thought-he-hated-obamacare-until-he-got-sick

    I have a ‘pre-existing condition’ and so could never purchase health insurance. Only after the ACA came into being could I be covered. Put simply to not take up too much of your time if you are in fact taking the time to read this: I would not be alive without access to care I received due to your law.

    with a bit of googling I could probably find a dozen stories of people who don’t think they’d be around if not for Obamacare.

    I would have rather had universal health insurance but this is good for now.

    Obamacare is more popular than Trump, and even more popular when you call it the Affordable Care Act while doing polling.

  115. 115
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 106:

    By greg @ 105:

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    So pfft (“We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment“) is wrong. LOL.

    I can confirm that many cashiers at airport McDonalds have lost their jobs. It is coming to a restaurant near you… well before the minimum (or maximum?) wage hits $15/hr.

    I worked at McD’s when the min wage went up. Nobody got fired and we got our raise early. Raising the wage means increased productivity and lower turnover. Turnover is expensive. I am sure the manager has better things to do than interview people. I remember my manager didn’t seem to thrilled to be doing interviews. They have to hire 3 people just to hire 1 person.

    It probably takes months to get people up to speed from interviewing to training and etc. And that’s only if you keep them. Who would stay in a fast good job for long though? Turnover must be terrible. I was only there for the summer and the two best people left w/o warning(as in they didn’t even quit) to paint a house because it was a lot of money. They were both allowed back but only one stayed. They were the two best workers. I would have fired both of them but they’d been there awhile and were the best.

    As far as automation goes, you think they are going to hire robots to deal with an angry customers, mop the floors or bring food out to cars in the parking lot.

    Corporations just don’t want to pay some people money though. Last time I was in a wal-mart it was a disaster. The store had a terrible vibe and some of the stores were not stocked. If taken to absurdity our new economy/corporate model is Sears. If I owned a restaurant business I would pay a few extra dollars per hour and make it up with great employees and service. If you give someone a real stake your business will thrive. Is there anything worse when you are customer than a bad employee giving bad service? There is like 1 or 2 places I go that have bad service and it’s only because the product or store is worth it. One place was slow but the owner is the one out front doing all the work. That gets my business every time. One convenience store always has 2 employees when it should have 3. LOL. Imagine waiting while only one employee is at the register while the other one is ALWAYS doing something else. I see frustrated people all the time. I am sure they lose business.
    The other day there were 2 full lines(ice cream season) and one person at the register because the other one went chasing after a shop lifter who stole beer(and was drinking it outside) and pounds of cheese. The lady at the register said there should be 3 people working there. Been thinking that forever.

  116. 116
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 108:

    By Eastsider @ 106:

    By greg @ 105:

    Min wages work but like everything else there are limits, if you set the wage too low it does nothing , if you set it too high it discourages employers and makes SOME jobs uneconomic.

    So pfft (“We have dozens of studies and decades of data that says that the min wage has no noticeable effect on employment“) is wrong. LOL..

    I may have to re-think pfft and greg being the same person.

    same thing could be said about the right-wingers. It’s not like you are all originals.

    You know when I read about/hear/talk/interact with some right-wingers I think are these people real? Do they actually exist? Where do they learn such obviously disprovable things? Facebook? Fox News? Chain emails? Breitbart?

  117. 117
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 111:

    By whatsmyname @ 107:

    If you can show that this is already occurring where the Seattle minimum wage is not in place, how does it follow that the later potential arrival of that same thing in Seattle be attributed to the Seattle minimum wage?

    Have you considered that some restaurant owners cannot afford paying them $14/hr, $13/hr, or $10/hr given their margins? You obviously have never run a business. There are many low margin businesses (Uwajimaya? Chinatown?) that can’t afford high minimum wages for some/all of their workers. These workers without skills will end up unemployable.

    raise prices?

  118. 118
    Eastsider says:

    RE: pfft @ 114 – This piece is written for reasonable open-minded readers. LOL.

    Goodbye To Obamacare
    https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2018-6-9-goodbye-to-obamacare

  119. 119
    Eastsider says:

    RE: pfft @ 115 – I see many anecdotes. Nothing to see otherwise.

  120. 120
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 117:

    raise prices?

    Genius! I believe that was what the city council told Uwajimaya to do… (the last I heard, their soda sales had collapsed after the sugar tax.)

  121. 121
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 119:

    RE: pfft @ 115 – I see many anecdotes. Nothing to see otherwise.

    the insured rate rate plunged. that is good. it will save thousands, maybe tens of thousands of lives.

    Barack Obama says health care law has led to 50,000 fewer preventable hospital deaths
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/mar/31/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-health-care-law-has-led-50000-/

    Researchers credit Obamacare with helping find early-stage cancer
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coloncancer-obamacare-idUSKBN157292

    When I post studies I get replies about anecdotes but when I post anecdotes I get replies about how I posted no studies.

    “Lack of health insurance is associated with as many as 44,789 deaths in the United States, more than those caused by kidney disease.”
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/sep/06/alan-grayson-claims-45000-people-die-year-because-/

  122. 122
    David says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 118 – LOL. Even more galling to the leftists, Latinos (even the illegal ones) living here live longer, without having any insurance, than legal citizens of the USA.

  123. 123
    David says:

    RE: pfft @ 117 – Isn’t there some price beyond which you gimply are not willing to be some twink’s sugar-daddy?

    So you see, by logic, raising prices is not an option just because you need something – even when you need it really badly.

  124. 124
    Stu says:

    RE: pfft @ 114 – This piece is written for reasonable open-minded readers. LOL.

    Goodbye To Obamacare
    https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2018-6-9-goodbye-to-obamacare

    Reasonable, open-minded readers? You may agree with the premise, but this is clearly a right-wing author writing for a right-wing audience.

  125. 125
    whatsmyname says:

    By Eastsider @ 111:

    By whatsmyname @ 107:

    If you can show that this is already occurring where the Seattle minimum wage is not in place, how does it follow that the later potential arrival of that same thing in Seattle be attributed to the Seattle minimum wage?

    Have you considered that some restaurant owners cannot afford paying them $14/hr, $13/hr, or $10/hr given their margins? You obviously have never run a business. There are many low margin businesses (Uwajimaya? Chinatown?) that can’t afford high minimum wages for some/all of their workers. These workers without skills will end up unemployable.

    I merely pointed out that if automation result B actually occurs without stimulus A, it is driven by another stimulus. If it is coming either with A or without A, it is not coming because of A.

    What you have presented is a non sequitur. You’ve overstated your case. Perhaps you couldn’t afford a reasonable argument.
    Perhaps marginal entrepreneurs are headed the same place as marginal workers.

  126. 126

    By Eastsider @ 118:

    RE: pfft @ 114 – This piece is written for reasonable open-minded readers. LOL.

    Goodbye To Obamacare
    https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2018-6-9-goodbye-to-obamacare

    That article is saying many of the same things I’ve been saying. Even before passage I raised the thought that repeal of the individual mandate would remove the constitutional underpinnings of Obamacare, because it was upheld only due to the ability of the government to tax. Take that tax away and seemingly Obamacare is dead. But that being said, I did at one time come up with a counter-argument to that, but I can’t currently think what that would be. I’ll probably need to read the Obamacare Supreme Court opinions again to come up with it–so don’t hold your breath. But if that does kill Obamacare it will show how uninformed the Democrats in Congress were in debating that bill.

    It also states the obvious that Obamacare didn’t achieve its goals. After accounting for the expansion of Medicaid, which could have been done without making our health insurance system even worse than it was, there is no significant decrease in the number of uninsured (Washington’s pro-Obamacare Insurance Commissioner hasn’t even reported on that last time I checked). And it clearly has not made health insurance less expensive–just the opposite.

  127. 127

    By pfft @ 121:

    Barack Obama says health care law has led to 50,000 fewer preventable hospital deaths
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/mar/31/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-health-care-law-has-led-50000-/

    LOL. What Obama has said about Obamacare became the “Lie of the Year.” How about a credible source?

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

  128. 128

    By Stu @ 124:

    RE: pfft @ 114 – This piece is written for reasonable open-minded readers. LOL.

    Goodbye To Obamacare
    https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2018-6-9-goodbye-to-obamacare

    Reasonable, open-minded readers? You may agree with the premise, but this is clearly a right-wing author writing for a right-wing audience.

    I think by “open-minded readers” he meant people who are not Obamabots like pfft. There are three main points in that article:

    1. Obamacare survived court attack only due to the individual mandate. That has since been repealed and the Trump Administration is no longer defending the act against attack.

    2. There were a lot of uninsured before Obamacare and there still are. Large numbers of people became qualified for Medicaid coverage which reduced the number of uninsured slightly. (BTW, I would also note that in addition to Medicaid expansion, the improving economy probably also reduced the number of uninsured as people gained employment, but even with both changes together the improvement in the number of uninsured is hardly significant).

    3. Insurance prices have not fallen and instead, have gone up.

    Is there a counter-argument to any of those positions, or other positions in that piece that would only be supported by “right-winged” people?

  129. 129
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 128 – Not only have they gone up, but they have gone up at a staggering pace. This year, statewide premiums rose 24%. Kaiser just applied for a 30% increase for this coming year. Most insurers have dropped out of the Obamacare exchanges in our state. A family of four is looking at premiums of over $1600/month, with $6000 deductibles.

    I encourage pfft and his shallow thinkers to continue to defend this as a success. It will just hasten the demise because it helps the masses realize that this was a scam from the start.

  130. 130
    Eastsider says:

    By Stu @ 124:

    Reasonable, open-minded readers? You may agree with the premise, but this is clearly a right-wing author writing for a right-wing audience.

    You don’t seem like an open-minded reader. This piece is clearly not written for you. LOL.

  131. 131

    RE: wreckingbull @ 129 – I’m well aware of those increases. I had to switch to Kaiser to avoid about a 60% increase this year sticking with conventional carriers!

    Keep my doctor, keep my plan, my ass! Can’t even keep my insurer because they were one of the ones that pulled out.

  132. 132
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 121:

    When I post studies I get replies about anecdotes but when I post anecdotes I get replies about how I posted no studies.

    I was replying to your anecdotes on minimum wage. And you replied with some ‘studies’ on Obamacare? What does ($15/hr) minimum wage has anything to do with Obamacare? (They are both BAD policies!)

    You are obviously not thinking clearly. When you are alert, perhaps you can read the latest evidence on the piece I shared on Obamacare instead of repeating the same old.

  133. 133
    Stu says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 128

    My comment was about the likely confirmation bias the poster holds—because he or she agrees with the content, it is therefore open-minded and reasonable, like the people who would read and like it must be.

    Calling the Affordable Care Act “the effective government takeover of a major portion of the economy” is a rather partisan why of framing a half-hearted reform bill. The ACA did not create an American version of the NHS (which would be a government takeover); doctors, hospitals, clinics and even insurance companies are still self-employed or controlled by companies or other entities. This and other contextual statements suggests that the author was not out to fairly analyse the relative successes and failures of the ACA.

    To your points:

    1—I have no idea; I have not been following the legal arguments.

    2—HHS lists the gain in people insured at 20 million from the beginning of the ACA through 2016 (possibly a better source of health care numbers than a Gallop poll). A factor that was not addressed in the article though is the quality of the insurance held. Even if the 20 million (or smaller amount, source depending) gain is not considered significant enough to be called a success, people’s insurance now will actually cover them sufficiently, which was not the case before for a lot of people.

    3—Little that is known to control health care costs made it into the final comprise ACA bill. (For example, the public option was dropped and drug-price negotiation for Medicare and Medicaid never made it far in negotiations.) While total health care spending has not dropped, it has slowed: average family premiums from 2011 to 2016 rose 20%. From 2006 to 2010 the average cost rose 31%, and from 2001 to 2006 the cost jumped 63%.

    I’m not a big fan of the ACA, but having lived and worked in the US and three countries with various forms of socialized medicine, I’d gladly take socialized medicine. Though I’d be fascinated to see what a real conservative health care plan in the US would look like. At <a "href=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204618704576641190920152366.html"one point, the ACA was a conservative plan and many conservative think tanks pushed the idea of the individual mandate. But it would be great to see a conservative plan meaningfully try to address the many issues with healthcare in America. They could start by outlawing the master charge list and make health care and all its “products” and services price transparent. This would arguably increase competition (how can you decide on a two sellers when neither shows you their price) and perhaps lower prices.

    Anyway, my point is that Francis Menton’s writing is partisan (I didn’t say untrue), and he speaks to a right-wing / libertarian readership. If I pointed to a blog that is obviously left-wing with socialist undertones and said it great for open-minded people, I think you or Eastsider may push back on that.

    A few sources to those numbers
    https://aspe.hhs.gov/pdf-report/health-insurance-coverage-and-affordable-care-act-2010-2016
    http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

  134. 134

    RE: greg @ 105
    So You Like Freedom of Speech if It Skips the Truth at Times?

    How about freedom of speech is OK always, as long as its not anarchy….breaking our existent laws for instance? Just what the Hades does that mean? Like that old “War” rock song….”absolutely nothing!”

    Change the laws if ya don’t like ’em….swallow ’em down gladly before that.

  135. 135

    RE: Stu @ 133
    Ya Got Pre-existing Conditions?

    Most Americans don’t. So why should we pay for your pre-existing conditions and worse yet, your like $5-10K Medicaid to healthy folks’ Planned Parenthood abortions with ACA money? You get the pleasure in bed and we pay for your birth control risks….LOL…not in my book.

  136. 136

    Without Inheritance/Gifts from Their Gen-X and Baby Boomer Parents

    The first time Milenial Seattle Home Buyers with normal mortgage qualifications are a moot point point now. The Milenials are entering middle age now too.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-insecure-millennials-are-set-for-an-unhealthy-middle-age-825mjshs5

  137. 137

    San Francisco is Not Alone

    This story reminds me of the Seattle Waterfront Pioneer Square. The story omits the horrifying stinky diesel oil smell in the city’s waterfront too from too much “safety engineering unregulated” international shipping; especially China.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-17/terrified-san-francisco-tourists-shocked-aggressive-vagrants-discarded-needles-dead

  138. 138

    RE: Eastsider @ 120
    My Probiotic Diet I Invented Allows Me to Have the Same Calories and Lost about 40 LBs Too

    No carbs…period at night…white flour, white rice, fruit and veggies, etc, etc too….it destroys the good bacteria and makes you a fat pig forever.

    Carbs cause diabetes just like sugary drinks BTW.

    Would all doctors give you this nutrition advice? LOL

  139. 139

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 131
    Add Medicare to the Useless Insurance List Too Kary

    Medicaid is even far worse. Medicare limits costs and becomes your primary insurance to health care cost limits with hardly no doctors that can afford to accept it. Part B costs $135/mo too….its like that old rock song by Dire Straits….”Money for Nothing”….LOL

  140. 140

    By Stu @ 133:

    Even if the 20 million (or smaller amount, source depending) gain is not considered significant enough to be called a success, people’s insurance now will actually cover them sufficiently, which was not the case before for a lot of people.

    I would agree with most of what you wrote, except this. But before getting into it, I would have personally preferred some sort of government takeover to Obamacare.

    As to this, the press (and pfft) like to make claims that insurance policies before offered inferior coverage. I’m not going to speak of states other than Washington, but Washington already had ample provisions for minimum coverages. In fact there was some discussion of cutting back to make insurance more affordable. Obamacare is literally a doctor wish-list of coverages designed to earn doctors as much money as possible, and virtually eliminate any consumer choice. But since insurance doesn’t generate money, that means higher premiums.

    Of course the thing not existing before, outside employer group plans, was coverage for pre-existing conditions. That didn’t exist for a reason! But the Obamacare solutions is completely nonsensical, because they did not actually force people to buy but instead allowed people who became sick later to join the self-employed pools, which are relatively small insurance pools. That means every year you have sicker and sicker people in the group on average, and again higher and higher premiums.

  141. 141
    Eastsider says:

    By Stu @ 133:

    My comment was about the likely confirmation bias the poster holds—because he or she agrees with the content, it is therefore open-minded and reasonable, like the people who would read and like it must be.

    We have been there before. Head tax anyone? Until then, I didn’t know that majority of voters in Seattle were conservatives and Republicans! I don’t see anyone here accusing you of being a left-winger or socialist. (Ok, pfft is an exception.) Well, at least you didn’t say Francis Menton’s writing was untrue. Now that is open-minded! LOL.

  142. 142
    kenmorem says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 140:

    By Stu @ 133:

    Of course the thing not existing before, outside employer group plans, was coverage for pre-existing conditions. That didn’t exist for a reason! But the Obamacare solutions is completely nonsensical, because they did not actually force people to buy but instead allowed people who became sick later to join the self-employed pools, which are relatively small insurance pools. That means every year you have sicker and sicker people in the group on average, and again higher and higher premiums.

    what’s your proposed solution to this? where does one start?

  143. 143
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 127:

    By pfft @ 121:

    Barack Obama says health care law has led to 50,000 fewer preventable hospital deaths
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/mar/31/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-health-care-law-has-led-50000-/

    LOL. What Obama has said about Obamacare became the “Lie of the Year.” How about a credible source?

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/dec/12/lie-year-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

    I posted a site that fact-checked what Obama said.

  144. 144
    pfft says:

    By wreckingbull @ 129:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 128 – Not only have they gone up, but they have gone up at a staggering pace. This year, statewide premiums rose 24%. Kaiser just applied for a 30% increase for this coming year. Most insurers have dropped out of the Obamacare exchanges in our state. A family of four is looking at premiums of over $1600/month, with $6000 deductibles.

    I encourage pfft and his shallow thinkers to continue to defend this as a success. It will just hasten the demise because it helps the masses realize that this was a scam from the start.

    Trump is doing all he can to dismantle Obamacare. That is a large part of the problem. The insurers are probably going through havoc.

    It Obamacare is so terrible why couldn’t Republicans, who control Congress and the WH, repeal it? Because it works. Republicans voters on Obamacare most likely saved it.

  145. 145
    pfft says:

    By softwarengineer @ 139:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 131
    Add Medicare to the Useless Insurance List Too Kary

    Medicaid is even far worse. Medicare limits costs and becomes your primary insurance to health care cost limits with hardly no doctors that can afford to accept it. Part B costs $135/mo too….its like that old rock song by Dire Straits….”Money for Nothing”….LOL

    My grandfather had medicare. We never had any problems with it. He needed an operation and was in and out in no time. No waiting and no scare stories. He was a Rockefeller Republican btw. Another time we arrived at his house and he was literally 6 hours from death. He went to the doctor and he was in surgery right away. He literally was hours from death. Seemed medicare

  146. 146
    pfft says:

    Obamacare is a lot more popular than Trump. LOL as the kids say.

  147. 147
    kenmorem says:

    https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&rMax=1333250597647.0613&rMin=1270178597647.0613

    pretty funny. polling was pretty consistent from 2012 – start of 2017. then, when the trumpster started the noise on it and wanted to take it away, his constituents (who benefit more from it than his opponents) said, hmm, maybe this isn’t so bad after all.

    who knows, maybe they might even think obama is an american citizen by now.

    nah, wishful thinking.

  148. 148

    RE: kenmorem @ 146 – They really need to group that by type of coverage the person has. People with employer coverage were hardly affected. Low-income people largely benefited. And the self-employed people were damaged greatly, unless they’re in the low-income group.

    What’s odd is the low-income group is trending unfavorable! Apparently some are not enjoying their subsidized insurance.

    As to the Trump constituents, they might like it better with the repeal of the individual mandate.

  149. 149

    By pfft @ 143:

    By wreckingbull @ 129:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 128 – Not only have they gone up, but they have gone up at a staggering pace. This year, statewide premiums rose 24%. Kaiser just applied for a 30% increase for this coming year. Most insurers have dropped out of the Obamacare exchanges in our state. A family of four is looking at premiums of over $1600/month, with $6000 deductibles.

    I encourage pfft and his shallow thinkers to continue to defend this as a success. It will just hasten the demise because it helps the masses realize that this was a scam from the start.

    Trump is doing all he can to dismantle Obamacare. That is a large part of the problem. The insurers are probably going through havoc.

    Insurers were pulling out of parts of the country even before Trump was elected. It is an unstable system because once a year it allows people whose costs are $100,000 a month in for payments of $300 a month. It takes a lot of healthy insureds to make up for that one individual.

    It Obamacare is so terrible why couldn’t Republicans, who control Congress and the WH, repeal it? Because it works. Republicans voters on Obamacare most likely saved it.

    Well first, they possibly effectively did repeal it–the only question is whether either the Democrats or Republicans realized that’s what they were doing.

    Second, are you really asking why Congress can’t get something done? They can’t even deal with immigration reform and that is a lot easier (relates to my next post).

  150. 150

    By kenmorem @ 142:

    what’s your proposed solution to this? where does one start?

    This is an area that doesn’t have an easy solution. The only thing I’ve seen that makes any sense is government providing the insurance–that way the risk would be spread across the entire population. And if paid by taxes there’s be no problem with people not deciding to buy insurance or being uninsured.
    You’d need to allow people to buy their own supplemental insurance, so that people wouldn’t be stuck with whatever coverage and service the government offered.

    That might not be ideal, and not politically popular, but it’s better than what we have and what we had before Obamacare.

  151. 151
  152. 152
    ess says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 151:

    That right-leaning Horsey is at it again! ;-)

    https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/seattle-city-council-is-responsible-for-the-head-tax-fiasco/

    Using the term “Knuckleheads” for the city council gives the Three Stooges a bad name.

  153. 153
    David says:

    Combing the insurance premiums and deductible, it made VASTLY more sense for self-employed to pay that money into a conservative investment portfolio for a rainy/cancer day. Most people would have MUCh more money than ever needed.

    $12K-$14K in yearly premiums and then a deductible of what, perhaps $7k-$12k?

    Anyone stupid enough to want AFFORDABLE healthcare like that is too stupid for me to want to hire.

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 148:

    RE: kenmorem @ 146 – They really need to group that by type of coverage the person has. People with employer coverage were hardly affected. Low-income people largely benefited. And the self-employed people were damaged greatly, unless they’re in the low-income group.

    What’s odd is the low-income group is trending unfavorable! Apparently some are not enjoying their subsidized insurance.

    As to the Trump constituents, they might like it better with the repeal of the individual mandate.

  154. 154

    RE: ess @ 152 – The clown union isn’t too happy either.

    RE: David @ 153That would work for most conditions if the money was set aside several years, but it wouldn’t work for a severe condition the first year.

    In any case, you’re thinking too hard. The name Affordable Healthcare Act was Orwellian. There was no savings to the legislation, any more than there would be savings to Trump’s (and others’) idea to allow insurance to be purchased across state lines.

  155. 155
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 154 – People can buy caastrophic healthcare insurance for the girst few years to cover emergencies prior ro going fully insured.

    The real problem was that it was intended to harm people.

    Obama was a liar and knew he was a liar.

    Obama’s policies brought on the Obama Depression.

  156. 156
    Eastsider says:

    UST 10yr yield is now at 2.88% and dropping due to Trump’s new tariff threat on additional $200b on Chinese goods. That should provide some (short-term?) relief on mortgage rates.

    The Chinese apparently was caught off guard as its stock market has declined 3%+ so far while DJIA future is off 300+ points and S&P500 future is down 1.16%.

    We shall see what happens in the morning…

  157. 157

    RE: pfft @ 145
    Medicare Doctors?

    Part A Hospital coverage may get your operation emergency….but even illegal aliens get that free at the emergency room…

    Part B is killing the elderly/disabled for doctor visits….I see more PAs than PhDs lately at quick pill [narcotic opioids? Expensive abortions at Planned Parenthood?] clinics, and more LPNs and less RNs [they’re being laid off in droves and the new hospitals are only 30% full beds, Hades the lunchrooms in the new hospitals are empty too]….IOWs incompetent/unaffordable care compared to the recent past. If my disabled son needed a doctor I’d have to pray the U of W takes Medicare, because they don’t take Medicaid [they call it Apple Insurance now] anymore…thank God he’s got my pension’s Blue Cross [since I retired] and he gets almost all doctors in Kent. Medicaid stopped covering dental years ago, before Obamacare. The old folks I talk to totally agree with me BTW, ask ’em yourself Pfffft….don’t be a brainwashed retiree with no plan.

  158. 158

    Hey Erik…This is a Great Flipper!

    Its not an upstairs condo…your bread and butter….but the 900 square foot interior is similar, its a small cottage [built in 1951 for $5K?….LOL]….its all ready for sale to this next carnival stooge buyer, notice they white washed everything for staging. Just a mere $2.6M….LOL

    Dig into dead dad’s old money?

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/home-price-insanity-2-6-million-for-900-square-feet/

  159. 159

    Kiss the Boeing Company of Asia Engineering Good-bye?

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-readies-new-tariffs-for-china-1529365844

    The tariff butcher axe is aimed directly at Seattle’s open border Sanctuary City “service industry” rich elite….their billionaire NWO manufacturing Overlords they sell us stuff from. The NWO “service economy” beer party in open border Seattle is over….time to clean up the HORRIFYING mess.

  160. 160
    Rupert D says:

    Where are Millennials going? Hint: Not San Francisco.
    Digital Producer, San Francisco Business Times
    Jun 12, 2018, 9:09am
    The Golden State continues to attract millennials, but it’s not San Francisco they’re seeking.
    Sacramento and San Jose both rank in the top 10 for cities millennials are moving to, listed third and seventh respectively, according to a new study by personal finance company SmartAsset. Seattle ranks first.
    SmartAsset used 2016 immigration and emigration data for 217 cities provided by the United States Census Bureau to track millennials’ movement.
    The state capital is attracting many new residents from within California. An estimated 10,000 millennials moved to Sacramento from other cities in the state, while just 5,600 left Sacramento for elsewhere. When taking into account both immigration and emigration, Sacramento gained about 6,700 millennials over 2016, according to SmartAsset.
    The generation brings with it a growing workforce and tax base. In 2019, the nation’s 71 million millennials—defined as age 20 to 35 in 2016—are set to exceed the Baby Boomer generation in population, according to Pew Research Center.
    There’s little surprise that San Francisco doesn’t make the cut. Even as the Bay Area tops the nation in job growth, the City by the Bay is one of the least affordable rental markets for millennials, according to a 2015 report from RealtyTrac. The city’s median three-bedroom rent is $3,074, the most expensive nationwide, and accounts for 44 percent of the average wage.
    San Francisco’s millennials also pay the highest taxes of any city in the country—a whopping 26.84 percent—according to a recent SmartAsset study.

  161. 161
    Kelly says:

    Just a quick musical break from all of the arguments to mourn the loss of old Seattle…

    “Gold Rush”
    by Ben Gibbard/Death Cab for Cutie

    They’re digging for gold in my neighborhood
    Where all the old buildings stood
    And they keep digging down, down
    So that their cars can live underground
    The swinging of a wrecking ball
    Through these lathe and plaster walls
    Is letting all the shadows free
    The ones I wished still followed me

    Change, please don’t change
    Stay, stay the same

    I remember a winter’s night
    When we kissed beneath the street lamp light
    Outside our bar near the record store
    That have been condos for a year or more
    And now that our haunts have taken flight
    And been replaced with construction sites
    Oh how I feel like a stranger here
    Searching for something that’s disappeared

    They’re digging for gold in my neighborhood
    For what they say is the greater good
    But all I see is a long goodbye
    A requiem for a skyline
    It seems I never stop losing you
    As every dive becomes something new
    And all our ghosts get swept away
    It didn’t used to be this way

    Change, please don’t change
    Stay, stay the same
    Cranes devour the light
    Strange appetites

    I’ve ascribed these monuments
    A false sense of permanence
    I’ve placed faith in geography
    To hold you in my memory
    I’m sifting through these wreckage piles
    Through the rubble of bricks and wires
    Looking for something I’ll never find

    They’re digging for gold in my neighborhood
    Where all the old buildings stood
    And they keep digging down, down
    So that their cars can live underground
    It seems I never stop losing you
    As every dive becomes something new
    And all our ghosts get swept away
    It didn’t used to be this way

    The music video on YouTube:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XTPZWG5eLf8

  162. 162

    RE: Kelly @ 161 – Must be an old song if he’s talking about buildings including parking! ;-) /jk

  163. 163
    David says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 157 – Do what I do, I have a whole different Mexican identity. A lot Mexican illegals don’t know their birthday or have a birth certifcate.

    So I just made up an identity and everyone calls me Jose now. Free healthcare!

  164. 164
    pfft says:

    By kenmorem @ 147:

    https://www.kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable–Unfavorable&rMax=1333250597647.0613&rMin=1270178597647.0613

    pretty funny. polling was pretty consistent from 2012 – start of 2017. then, when the trumpster started the noise on it and wanted to take it away, his constituents (who benefit more from it than his opponents) said, hmm, maybe this isn’t so bad after all.

    who knows, maybe they might even think obama is an american citizen by now.

    nah, wishful thinking.

    people realized that repealing Obamacare would mean that THEY might lose their healthcare. then obamacare was great. Obamacare is even more popular when you call it the Affordable Care Act in polling questions.

  165. 165
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 149:

    By pfft @ 143:

    By wreckingbull @ 129:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 128 – Not only have they gone up, but they have gone up at a staggering pace. This year, statewide premiums rose 24%. Kaiser just applied for a 30% increase for this coming year. Most insurers have dropped out of the Obamacare exchanges in our state. A family of four is looking at premiums of over $1600/month, with $6000 deductibles.

    I encourage pfft and his shallow thinkers to continue to defend this as a success. It will just hasten the demise because it helps the masses realize that this was a scam from the start.

    Trump is doing all he can to dismantle Obamacare. That is a large part of the problem. The insurers are probably going through havoc.

    Insurers were pulling out of parts of the country even before Trump was elected. It is an unstable system because once a year it allows people whose costs are $100,000 a month in for payments of $300 a month. It takes a lot of healthy insureds to make up for that one individual.

    It Obamacare is so terrible why couldn’t Republicans, who control Congress and the WH, repeal it? Because it works. Republicans voters on Obamacare most likely saved it.

    Well first, they possibly effectively did repeal it–the only question is whether either the Democrats or Republicans realized that’s what they were doing.

    Second, are you really asking why Congress can’t get something done? They can’t even deal with immigration reform and that is a lot easier (relates to my next post).

    kary if you don’t know how hard immigration reform is I just can’t even begin to have a conversation with you about politics. Immigration is EASY? LOL as SWE would say.

  166. 166
    pfft says:

    By David @ 153:

    Combing the insurance premiums and deductible, it made VASTLY more sense for self-employed to pay that money into a conservative investment portfolio for a rainy/cancer day. Most people would have MUCh more money than ever needed.

    $12K-$14K in yearly premiums and then a deductible of what, perhaps $7k-$12k?

    Anyone stupid enough to want AFFORDABLE healthcare like that is too stupid for me to want to hire.

    Dude, that is the dumbest idea ever. that is just moronic. I would never work for a boss that was that stupid. I mean that’s a really stupid comment. I am just joking of course because you called people stupid. You assume that you can save enough money before you get sick to cover the bills. But it doesn’t take that long of a hospital stay to bankrupt you. I know someone who had a very serious heart attack. He stopped counting when the bills got over $1,000,000 dollars. And the bills kept arriving. That is some pre-existing condition.

    You know what’s going to happen when people save a few hundred thousand dollars? They are going to buy a house or a boat or a house boat.

  167. 167
    pfft says:

    By David @ 155:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 154
    Obama’s policies brought on the Obama Depression.

    LOL> nobody is buying your obama depression line but keep selling. If my boss said something that stupid I would never work for him. I kid.

  168. 168
    sfrz says:

    RE: Kelly @ 161 – Get ready for it. The plague is moving north. Goodbye to eclectic Cap Hill; to South Lake Union; to Center of the Universe; Swedish Old Ballard, etc. Gone are those artistic, enclaves. Gone are the views of SLU. Only tall ugly flat faced 600 sq. foot soviet style block living. They are ruining Seattle too. Bezos doesn’t care. Like all capitalists, once it is spent, they move elsewhere, like locusts.
    “The Bay Area is saturated with tech companies like Twitter and DropBox, but it wasn’t always that way.
    The inclusive San Francisco was once home to an eclectic group of dreamers, unconventionals, and creatives.
    But in the last two decades, tech companies have taken over, diminishing the rich culture and causing Bay Area real estate prices to soar. ” http://www.businessinsider.com/the-bay-area-is-being-ruined-by-tech-companies-2018-6#4-welcome-to-the-new-crash-same-as-the-old-crash-4 ~”This isn’t the fault of tech companies per se, but rather the Fed-driven startup bubble, real estate bubble, and building bubble. This is what happens when the Fed meddles in the economy: it creates “false signals” and mass distortion.” ~Jesse Columbo @theBubbleBubble

  169. 169
    David says:

    It is called freedom to live your life as you please instead of pre-paying the medical industry to extend it. Doctors are leeches in many ways.

    A judge can order a lawyer to act as a criminal defense lawyer in times of need – and make them do it pro bono.

    Try getting a medical professional to do that for free or getting a judge to make them do it.

    The medical community is a leech with most motivated to get rich.

    By pfft @ 165:

    By David @ 153:

    You know what’s going to happen when people save a few hundred thousand dollars? They are going to buy a house or a boat or a house boat.

  170. 170
    pfft says:

    That’s your answer David? Freedom? Are you Braveheart? The problem is that freedom is not free. If you don’t have enough money saved up and can’t pay up the taxpayer picks up the tab. Instead of that Rube Goldberg contraption of a healthcare system(allegedly) we require people to have insurance. It worked. The number of uninsured plunged and hospitals stabilized. A Harvard study showed 45,000 died due to lack of health insurance every year. Something had to be done. Many were losing health insurance and going bankrupt.

  171. 171
    pfft says:

    I guess we know how we are going to soak up all the space in empty malls…child interment camps.

    Opps! I meant shelters with fences sure but video games. And no parents.

  172. 172
    David says:

    RE: pfft @ 170 – I understand your need for impacted hemorrhoid treatments requires attentiveness to this insurance business. Butt that doesn’t mean everyone must be forced into your boat as it drives up the canal of doom.

  173. 173
    Erik says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 138
    I’ve been eating low carb since 2000. I make my own sauerkraut to get probiotics. I had psoriasis growing up. By eating low carb and cutting out dairy and gluten and my skin cleared up. It sounds like we’ve made the similar conclusions on food. Americans need to wake up and look to food to battle disease and illness instead of masking the problem with prescription drugs.

  174. 174
    Anon says:

    I’d like to see Bainbridge broken out of Kitsap given the gigantic difference in median prices Kitsap ex-BBI vs BBI

  175. 175
    Nunya Business says:

    By David @ 168:

    It is called freedom to live your life as you please instead of pre-paying the medical industry to extend it. Doctors are leeches in many ways.

    A judge can order a lawyer to act as a criminal defense lawyer in times of need – and make them do it pro bono.

    Try getting a medical professional to do that for free or getting a judge to make them do it.

    The medical community is a leech with most motivated to get rich.

    By pfft @ 165:

    By David @ 153:

    You know what’s going to happen when people save a few hundred thousand dollars? They are going to buy a house or a boat or a house boat.

    David- You are absolutely wrong. Doctors do NOT need a judge to order them to provide pro bono care. Doctors routinely do this when taking care of patients. One such setting is in the emergenecy rooms where uninsured patients may come to get their care. Who do you think pays the doctor in that situation? No one. Another example is in the out-patient setting where the patient receives care but then unable to pay for the care due to high deductible/co-insurance. So, your comment is completely inaccurate and seems to be rooted in envy over physician compensation.

  176. 176
    wreckingbull says:

    Steering the conversation back from personal skin rashes to real estate:

    https://www.geekwire.com/2018/citybldr-will-start-buying-homes-seattle-taking-zillow-redfin-opendoor-twist/

  177. 177

    By pfft @ 164:

    Obamacare is even more popular when you call it the Affordable Care Act in polling questions.

    No feces Sherlock. Why do you think they called it that? It was to fool gullible, ignorant and lazy people into thinking it was something it wasn’t–making healthcare affordable. Virtually nothing in the act made healthcare more affordable–just the opposite. That’s why above I called it Orwellian.

    The Available Care Act would have been more accurate. The Available But Much More Expensive Care Act would have been the most accurate.

    That does show though why polls should not be trusted. The way the questions are drafted can steer the answers and thus the results. I’m particularly skeptical of reports on polls where they don’t quote the questions asked.

  178. 178

    By David @ 168:

    A judge can order a lawyer to act as a criminal defense lawyer in times of need – and make them do it pro bono.

    Nope, the attorneys get paid. In a capital murder case the fees can run into seven figures.

  179. 179

    By wreckingbull @ 173:

    Steering the conversation back from personal skin rashes to real estate:

    https://www.geekwire.com/2018/citybldr-will-start-buying-homes-seattle-taking-zillow-redfin-opendoor-twist/

    And on Geekwire someone is probably saying: Steering the conversation back from real estate to tech. Seriously, I don’t know why Geekwire covers some of the RE topics they cover.

  180. 180

    RE: David @ 153
    Perhaps Kansas is Right Not to Hand Out Useless Medicaid to the Well Young Adults

    They all end up in the emergency rooms asking for free treatment anyway…the illegal aliens got it right.

  181. 181

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 174
    Your Car May Get 40 MPG But You Drive It 40,000 Miles a Year

    Environmental is not MPGs, its gasoline used per year. Same with healthcare, the monthly premium may be affordable [like Medicare] but how do you get local reliable doctors to take it at a loss? Most of the disabled I know have Medicare Doctors at limited/main downtown [jammed traffic] Tacoma/Seattle hospitals….but rarely go on long all day office visits [they use Access and its even slower and more unreliable like buses] when prescription opioids are handed out like candy to them anyway [Medicare Part D, another monthly cost to add to Part B’s $135/mo…LOL]…the drugs are easier to get than checkups….LOL

    So Bubbleheads, make sure ya pay into the Medicaid/Medicare entitlements from your gross pay all your life….so ya can pay big monthly payments for somewhat useless Part B and D anyway after ya retire….its like the clown with the squirt bottle gets ya after you’re retired? I know many retired folks that wing it like the Milenials….no health care….it probably makes no difference. Hospitalization Part A is free to illegal immigrants without it too….LOL….our health care is a complete joke.

  182. 182
    Bubble Trouble says:

    Class…what happens when you’re a SJW Seattle based company that agitates for $15 minimum wage combined with turning your business into a homeless shelter?

    You get this:

    “Starbucks also plans to close about 150 company-operated stores in densely penetrated U.S. markets next fiscal year, three times the number it historically shuts down annually. The closing stores are often in “major metro areas where ***increases in wage*** and occupancy and other regulatory requirements” are making them unprofitable, Johnson said. “Now, in a lot of ways, it’s middle America and the South that presents an opportunity.”

    Which is weird since Pffft and his ilk keep swearing up and down $15 min. wage laws absolutely positively do not cause job losses. Weird man.

  183. 183

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 162
    The Four Story Tall Large Kent City Hall Has Like 20-30 Parking Spots for Its Workers and Visitors

    Where do the workers/visitors park their cars ? [Blocks, miles away???] LOL

    The answer is force us to put Chinese Solar Cells on our roofs with Chinese toxic process Lithium Batteries and ban all our expensive gas cars away from all of us? I see pitch forks and torches in America, at a theater near you?

  184. 184
    Bubble Trouble says:

    How affordable was the “Affordable Care Act”? My premium went from $420 in 2010 to over $1000 in 2018, and with twice the deductible. That monstrosity is a dead law walking . It is already collapsing on its own weight and SCOTUS will make it official soon enough. Now that the penalty is gone, thanks to the tax cut law, the initial SCOTUS ruling that it’s a “tax” no longer applies. ACA will be DOA by this time next year. Thank God.

  185. 185

    RE: Erik @ 172
    You Look Trim Erik Too

    Yes…cabbage is probiotic….ya don’t need the chemical probiotic pills, just pure food…like shredded wheat and oat meal cereals [don’t eat whole wheat bread…it all has sugar carbs in it]. You can put honey on your cereal…its probiotic too….but watch the honey [its full of calories].

    When ya get older you’ll have to accelerate the probiotic diet IMO with a slower metabolism….my diet was not this strict at your age too.

    “Just eat the food and lose the weight”….LOL

  186. 186

    RE: Erik @ 172
    Be Careful With Gluten Free Erik

    The gluten free manufacturing process includes grain train transportation without washing out the grain cars….its likely full of dust and debris [rat hairs and feces?] IOWs….some say gluten free is hazardous to eat. Organic vegetables have ecoli bacteria from cow poop drainage….the bagged lettuce is especially contaminated….I stopped eating most lettuce lately. Red Robin agreed with me….their vegetables [if you eat enough] cause phlegm in the throat from contaminants too.

  187. 187
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 176 – I am guessing they are covering the story since the company is a technology company, apparently using GIS and machine learning to classify and rate property clusters. No idea if it is a valid approach, but I can appreciate the technology angle.

  188. 188

    By Bubble Trouble @ 181:

    How affordable was the “Affordable Care Act”? My premium went from $420 in 2010 to over $1000 in 2018, and with twice the deductible. That monstrosity is a dead law walking . It is already collapsing on its own weight and SCOTUS will make it official soon enough. Now that the penalty is gone, thanks to the tax cut law, the initial SCOTUS ruling that it’s a “tax” no longer applies. ACA will be DOA by this time next year. Thank God.

    Except there is still the remedy if unconstitutional–how much will be struck down. I seem to recall that it didn’t stand on the Interstate Commerce Clause, but I don’t remember much else about the decisions (there was no majority opinion as I recall).

  189. 189

    By softwarengineer @ 183:

    RE: Erik @ 172
    Be Careful With Gluten Free Erik

    Thank you! /Hannibal Lecter

  190. 190

    RE: Erik @ 172
    My Rashes [I don’t call ’em by name since I now know the doctors don’t know their names either….LOL] Went Away Too With Just Diet Changes and Weight Loss Too

    My feet are healthier now too…weight loss? Try Neutrogena Body Moisturizer….its expensive, but I use it daily to prevent skin problems [it can slowly dissolve moles and warts too]….tell your wife it removes hair and calluses too….painlessly [have you seen that wax process the women use for hair removal….ouch!].

  191. 191

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 186
    Meat is Gluten Free?

    Its just a fad like soy products curing cardiovascular disease…fake news, soy doesn’t do a thing for your heart. I saw the Hannibal the Cannibal movie recently….Hannibal did look quite healthy on that diet….LOL

  192. 192
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 175 – Maybe not in WA, but in other states they sometimes force lawyers to go Pro Bono if they run out of money. WA would do it too if the money ran out. The Constitution guarantees defendant access to lawyers, not lawyer access to money.

  193. 193

    I Never Did Like Kiplinger’s Advice

    Now I know why….California is #6 best place in America to retire? LOL…what a joke…

    https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/retirement/T006-S001-all-50-states-ranked-for-retirement-2018/index.html?cid=GEM

  194. 194

    RE: David @ 189
    Speaking of Running Out of Money

    With a federal deficit of 15% of government tax revenue….doubling the debt interest rate makes it now 30%?

    All 2019 programs butcher axed then? Congress just kicks the can down the road for 60 years now like immigration reform and leaves us with massive child care expenses from foreigners we can’t afford with no budget….its gonna much worse Bubbleheads…..

    BTW….speaking of banning young children from criminals….how about divorce cases of falsely accused child neglects? Innocent fathers in most cases BTW until proven innocent…we error on the side of caution. I was banned from seeing my 4 and 2 YO children when this happened for two years….but that’s OK [my ex finally admitted she lied]? The Wenatche Witch Hunt trials same conundrum…children admitted they lied and 40 some care givers go to jail anyway….

    Does this happen when there are older children that say, “dad didn’t do that”? Rarely., if at all….

  195. 195
    Nicole says:

    RE: Erik @ 172

    I cut out gluten and dairy and my skin cleared up and I have more energy. My friend had a skin problem she also gave up dairy and her skin cleared up.

    @softwarengineer just because your gluten free doesn’t mean you eat gluten free grains. I make my own muffins on occasion but hardly eat grains. You should look on the government sites about how much rat hair and bugs are acceptable in popcorn and other foods. It’s gross but even if you grow your own food mice and rats will try to get it.
    PS if your lotion desolves moles then it’s probably not good for you……..

  196. 196
    greg says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 154:

    RE: ess @ 152 – The clown union isn’t too happy either.

    RE: David @ 153That would work for most conditions if the money was set aside several years, but it wouldn’t work for a severe condition the first year.

    In any case, you’re thinking too hard. The name Affordable Healthcare Act was Orwellian. There was no savings to the legislation, any more than there would be savings to Trump’s (and others’) idea to allow insurance to be purchased across state lines.

    I dont think david truly understand risk or how insurance works.

    self insuring is for the mega rich and stupid people . the problem with self insuring is that it “could” work but may not work.
    insurance is about protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ” ie the events so fiscally devastating that you would either not be able to pay or would be broken by the burden.

    If one were to go naked , i would suggest disposing of assets well in advance (years) and to do so without appearing to be doing so. Not a legit course of action but if someone were thinking of gambling with their life’s savings at least do it right.

    Most people should buy the highest deductible they dare when it comes to car and home, and use the savings to increase the max payout. yet we see folks with “windscreen” coverage and max payout of 250k etc.

    250 max often has 50% max individual event tied to it. Hell you could hit 125,00 k for dental work.

  197. 197
    David says:

    RE: greg @ 193

    You are not protected from anything if you are paying $20k-$25k/year in insurance. The insurance is what you need to be protected from.

    “protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ””

  198. 198
    David says:

    If the country does end up with open borders, you can kiss Medicare and Social Security goodbye for certain. You only have to work 8 years and 2 days to qualify for minimum social security now.

    And you can probably count on the Dems to lower that requirement to no work at some point and even less time in the country. They are waging war against US-born citizens who thought they were making a nice life for themselves.

    RE: softwarengineer @ 191RE: greg @ 193

    You are not protected from anything if you are paying $20k-$25k/year in insurance. The insurance is what you need to be protected from.

    “protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ””

  199. 199
    Eastsider says:

    RE: greg @ 193 – Obamacare is not an insurance product. It is a prohibitive cost shifting scheme to some people. The Supreme Court says it is a tax. But the 5-4 opinion may not survive.

  200. 200

    By Eastsider @ 196:

    RE: greg @ 193 – Obamacare is not an insurance product. It is a prohibitive cost shifting scheme to some people. The Supreme Court says it is a tax. But the 5-4 opinion may not survive.

    That’s true, and unfortunately it’s largely a cost shifting scheme with money taken from the self-employed who had insurance prior to Obamacare to those who went without insurance and then decided that they needed insurance after an expensive condition developed. And it is also cost shifting from the government to employers and the self-employed.

    If it were sold as what it was, or even described today as what it is, it wouldn’t exist.

  201. 201
    Eastsider says:

    By Eastsider @ 156:

    UST 10yr yield is now at 2.88% and dropping due to Trump’s new tariff threat on additional $200b on Chinese goods. That should provide some (short-term?) relief on mortgage rates.

    The Chinese apparently was caught off guard as its stock market has declined 3%+ so far while DJIA future is off 300+ points and S&P500 future is down 1.16%.

    We shall see what happens in the morning…

    Hmm.. I just checked the daily mortgage rates on MND website. It showed that mortgage rate barely moved despite the huge drop in 10yr treasury yield. In fact, current mortgage rate is higher than a couple days ago. No mortgage relief for home buyers…

  202. 202
    Blurtman says:

    By David @ 195:

    If the country does end up with open borders, you can kiss Medicare and Social Security goodbye for certain. You only have to work 8 years and 2 days to qualify for minimum social security now.

    And you can probably count on the Dems to lower that requirement to no work at some point and even less time in the country. They are waging war against US-born citizens who thought they were making a nice life for themselves.

    RE: softwarengineer @ 191RE: greg @ 193

    You are not protected from anything if you are paying $20k-$25k/year in insurance. The insurance is what you need to be protected from.

    “protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ””

    Indeed. It seems to be a divide and conquer strategy.

    Right now, an average family that is insured through an employer pays about $5,000/year for their health insurance, whereas the employer pays around $10,000. Also, out-of-pocket costs would also include costs up to the the deductible, which cn be an addition $1,000-$4,00.

    Medicare for all will not work unless it is for citizens only. Every society has a right to determine how it will allocate its resources. Illegal aliens rob that right from communities.

    Sorry, but we do not want you or your children here. We cannot take everyone who wants to be here from all over the world.

    The USA does not have a history of welcoming immigrants, unlike the dopey liberal PR claims to the contrary. This country has restricted immigration from China, as well as from southern and eastern Europe. Usually, the primary concern has been jobs for citizens first, and not for lower wage worker immigrants.

    It’s OK to say no, you are going back. Wait in line like everyone else.

  203. 203

    RE: Blurtman @ 199 – Restricted immigration apparently didn’t start until the mid-19th century–the Chinese. Before that there apparently were no rules, although I don’t know how well newcomers were accepted.

  204. 204
    Erik says:

    RE: Nicole @ 192
    That’s great Nicole! Glad your symptoms resolved. I look at skin problems as your body is somewhere on the autoimmune spectrum. It’s good to get off as early as possible.

  205. 205
    Erik says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 187
    Awesome! You got to the root of the problem and fixed it. The rash is a symptom that showed you there was a problem. You figured out the problem and will be healthier for it. Good job SWE!

  206. 206
    wreckingbull says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 197:

    By Eastsider @ 196:

    RE: greg @ 193 – Obamacare is not an insurance product. It is a prohibitive cost shifting scheme to some people. The Supreme Court says it is a tax. But the 5-4 opinion may not survive.

    That’s true, and unfortunately it’s largely a cost shifting scheme with money taken from the self-employed who had insurance prior to Obamacare to those who went without insurance and then decided that they needed insurance after an expensive condition developed. And it is also cost shifting from the government to employers and the self-employed.

    If it were sold as what it was, or even described today as what it is, it wouldn’t exist.

    Not according to Crazy Na-Na:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV7dDSgbaQ0

    Jonathan Gruber doesn’t really think that matters though, since you are too stoopid to understand it anyway:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEjr9WchNkg

  207. 207

    RE: Nicole @ 192
    And Now You Have Arthritis and Kidney Stones From Fake Calcium Instead of Milk?

    Dissolving moles bad for you? Doctors regularly cut small ones off with sizzers…

    I prefer milk calcium…it dissolves kidney stones better than water….it doesn’t cause them like fake calcium supplements. My parents both had arthritis bad in their 40s too [my mom got kidney stones at 40 something too]…they never drank milk. I’m arthritis free :-) I hear ground sesame seeds prevents arthritis too..I eat that daily too.

    Drugs and processed cures are usually worse than just holistic food..albeit yes, you may be allergic to milk, but give me a break, Gluten Free is mixed in to everything we eat that isn’t Gluten Free…there is no clean research. Allergies are very difficult to prove because we mix everything together in our stomachs. Same with bad bacteria destroying the probiotic bacteria…

  208. 208

    RE: Erik @ 202
    My Son Was Miss Diagnosed For Eczema Rash Fake News By Doctors For Decades

    Then they stumbled on to what it really was….acne….LOL

    Its now cured because a lucky devil doctor guessed right….I like that doctor BTW, he admits it too. Trust your doctor when they tell ya you got shingles…LOL….that prescription is in law suit [they all end up in lawsuit?]…it doesn’t work.

  209. 209

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 200
    Yes…the Chinese Were Attacked By Violent Criminals So They Built the WALL

    Its now a Great Wall tourist attraction that brings in more than Disneyland…if we build it right, the Trump Wall could have amusement parks, hotels and resorts honoring it….both Mexico and America could make a fortune on tourist trade…why is this bad? The Border Wall Hotel build right on it overlooking the Sierra Mountains….beautiful and profitable too.

    North Korea and Trump are friends now….Hades, Kim may end up in better financial state than South Korea and Japan….LOL

  210. 210

    A Good Way Not to Buy Foreclosed Homes in Seattle

    If it worked, why are they selling the book on how its done? LOL

    https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym&reason=myc#8668557837

  211. 211

    SWE Is a Lucky Cash Investor Devil Too?

    I suggested pulling out of investing and saving just cash as mortgage interest rises. Now Bloomberg is echoing “higher interest” Federal Treasury bias over stocks [real estate too?]. Note: as Kary has pointed out, stocks and real estate are generally Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum…they rise or fall together over the long run.

    https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/2018/06/21/cash-is-king-one-month-treasury-bills-compete-with-s-p-payouts

    Last I heard the stock lost all its 2018 YTD gains and it a lot of it recently went into Treasuries instead…

  212. 212

    Its San Francisco Now Sanctuary City Seattle At a Theater Near You Soon?

    Robots are replacing most all of the first time home buyers inadequate jobs in Seattle?

    https://www.bloombergquint.com/pursuits/2018/06/21/the-world-s-first-robotic-burger-is-ready-to-hit-the-bay-area

  213. 213

    By softwarengineer @ 212:

    Robots are replacing most all of the first time home buyers inadequate jobs in Seattle?

    I don’t think I’ve ever had a buyer client or buyer on a listing, whose job was flipping burgers at MCD. That job isn’t really designed to be a career–although with Seattle’s minimum wage I could see it might be attractive to some.

    And BTW, it isn’t just the pay. My UPS job sorting boxes in the early 80s for $12.54 an hour wasn’t a job designed to be a career either. In fact, they purposefully hired short-termers, e.g. college students.

  214. 214
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 213 – I worked at UPS too in the 90s. There is no way anyone could do that work for a career. It was TOUGH.

    I once purposely didn’t wash my pants for a week or so and they would stand up on their own. Bad for your health though to not wash your pants.

    Still, I blame white privilege for my much better lot in life now.

  215. 215
    David says:

    I’m noticing several houses being renovated down in Burien. New houses going up too. Largish lots being subdivided for two houses. People are cashing out.

  216. 216
    greg says:

    By David @ 197:

    RE: greg @ 193

    You are not protected from anything if you are paying $20k-$25k/year in insurance. The insurance is what you need to be protected from.

    “protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ””

    By David @ 197:

    RE: greg @ 193

    You are not protected from anything if you are paying $20k-$25k/year in insurance. The insurance is what you need to be protected from.

    “protecting yourself and yours from the ” slings and arrows of outrageous fortune ””

    Sorry mate but you are not being honest with your numbers. Like many poster here , you are not really interested in an honest debate you just want to sling bombs.

    The current cost of healthcare insurance in WA with ZERO discounts for a 50 year old non smoker is 370 a month. that is 4,500 USD a year. (remember it is insurance, not a movie ticket, the hope is you never use it)
    the deductible with a matching out of pocket on that is 7.1K a year the max spend in a year is 12K.

    Or if you think you will need a doctor a lot you could opt for a “gold level” plan and spend 6,700 a year on premiums with an 850.00 deductible, and an out of pocket of 6k… maxing your spend at 13K
    Nobody said it was cheap, but then neither is good driver insurance, nor good house /umbrella

    there are a lot of options on the exchange, and YES Trump has trashed ACA and Trump is driving those prices up by some 5%- 30% next year in WA. I guess that is what trump meant when he said he had a “better and cheaper Plan “….
    raise your glass and thank Trump for forcing Kaiser to jack up the prices once again..
    .
    here are some links where you can learn about costs instead of pulling numbers out of your butt .
    https://wa.kaiserpermanente.org/individual-family/plans

    And again nobody said it was cheap, it is not cheap for corps , gov or anyone.

  217. 217
    Eastsider says:

    By greg @ 216:

    This is wrong on so many levels. What do you think about a fresh college grad paying $3850/yr for a ‘gold’ plan with a $1k medical deductible, $500 prescription deductible, 20% med. coinsurance, 30% prescription coinsurance and a $6350 out-of-pocket max? It has a very limited number of in-network providers and does not cover out-of-network expenses. A college grad making $30k+/yr gets no subsidy. So the health insurance, which will most likely not be used, costs more than double the federal (and state) income tax. Based on actuarial science, the premium for such a product should be well under $1000/yr.

    The reason insurance premium is so high, which has nothing to do with Trump, is due to cost shifting. The Supreme Court recognizes and calls it a Tax!

    Pre-Obamacare, we had a functioning insurance market. True, some people could not afford it but that is a separate issue that could be addressed with Medicad for example. But now it is like a horror movie to many people. Many poor people are now so dependent on subsidies and handouts (food, healthcare, child tax credit etc) that they cannot afford a pay raise because they would lose those subsidies! The WSJ just had an article on this permanent lower class in America.

    So are you still interested in an honest debate and just want to sling bombs here?

  218. 218
    pfft says:

    By David @ 214:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 213Still, I blame white privilege for my much better lot in life now.

    wise choice.

    There is no doubt that being a white male definitely is an advantage. It wasn’t too long ago that woman couldn’t vote or work on a widespread scale.

  219. 219
    pfft says:

    Sign of a top? Remember Equity Office Properties in 2006?

    One of the world’s largest commercial-real-estate companies is going public
    http://www.businessinsider.com/cushman-and-wakefield-files-for-ipo-2018-6

  220. 220
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 217:

    By greg @ 216The reason insurance premium is so high, which has nothing to do with Trump, is due to cost shifting. The Supreme Court recognizes and calls it a Tax!

    Pre-Obamacare, we had a functioning insurance market. True, some people could not afford it but that is a separate issue that could be addressed with Medicad for example. But now it is like a horror movie to many people. Many poor people are now so dependent on subsidies and handouts (food, healthcare, child tax credit etc) that they cannot afford a pay raise because they would lose those subsidies! The WSJ just had an article on this permanent lower class in America.

    So are you still interested in an honest debate and just want to sling bombs here?

    what are you talking about? you are wrong on all accounts. how can you have a functioning insurance market when so many people are LOSING their insurance? when obamacare went into affect the uninsured rate plunged

    “But now it is like a horror movie to many people.”

    no, that was the prior system. the prior system was so bad we now have obamacare.

    Trump is doing all he can to disrupt the system. that’s why the markets are in such flux. how can the companies plan when the president is in active sabotage mode?

    Trump ending lower-income Obamacare subsidies, threatening the law’s marketplaces
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-health-care-executive-order-20171012-story.html

    ‘We have essentially repealed Obamacare,’ Trump says after tax bill passes
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-pol-essential-washington-updates-trump-sees-an-end-to-obamacare-in-the-1513794883-htmlstory.html

    Trump the baby stealer doesn’t know anything about anything so don’t take his word for it.

  221. 221
    pfft says:

    By softwarengineer @ 209:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 200
    Yes…the Chinese Were Attacked By Violent Criminals So They Built the WALL

    it didn’t last long. they just went through(meaning through the gates) or around the wall. Don’t you watch your History Channel?

    One of the wall’s greatest failures happened in 1644: The Manchus sacked Beijing after a Ming general, in an act of treason, opened the gates of the wall at Shanhai Pass. The Ming dynasty collapsed.

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/03/great-wall-china-donald-trump/

  222. 222

    By David @ 214:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 213 – I worked at UPS too in the 90s. There is no way anyone could do that work for a career. It was TOUGH. .

    I remember a couple of new unloaders quitting after two hours–the first break. :-D

  223. 223
    sfrz says:

    Scamazon strikes again. More lobbyists that EXXON or WALMART. WTH. This monopoly needs to be broken up. Too much political and economic power in his hands. Remember what happened right after the “Gilded Age.” Buckle up.
    “Today, Amazon, whose revenues last year topped $177 billion, has become deeply entwined with the federal government. Mr. Bezos has built one of the largest lobbying operations in Washington, bigger than those of powerhouses such as Exxon Mobil Corp. and Walmart Inc. Its cloud-computing business is a major government contractor, with an estimated $1.5 billion in contracts last year, according to consulting firm GBH Insights. And the company has been pushing hard to change the law to allow government employees to buy more of their own supplies on Amazon.com.” https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-21/amazon-hires-army-lobbyists-political-spending-outpaces-walmart-exxonmobil

  224. 224

    RE: sfrz @ 222 – I’m surprised you didn’t mention today’s sales tax decision, which should greatly help Amazon since they already have the ability to collect sales tax everywhere. They will be able to provide services to collect, report and pay taxes for internet sellers that have no connection to the Amazon site.

    But if you want to talk about power concentration, how about Disney trying to buy Fox. Apparently that’s both the movie and TV parts of Fox. I’m not sure if that includes Fox News, but if it happens, then Disney will control two of the four major broadcast networks and their news product.

    On the other hand, those networks seem to be a dying breed, but maybe I think that because this is the time of year that they don’t even try. (Exception for The Gong Show, which starts again tonight.)

  225. 225
    David says:

    RE: pfft @ 218 – Something tells me you’ve never really worked in a man’s world and are not qualified to testify as to what it would be like.

    I did, however, know a guy busted initially for shoplifting. ‘He’, I use that loosely, was busted for wearing baggy sweats and constantly reaching around back as though he was pocketing merchandise. Turns out he was just walking around Walmart with a dildo up his butt that he needed to adjust for azimuth. Now this I can see being slightly more up your bailiwick.

  226. 226
    sfrz says:

    RE: David @ 224 – you are disrespecting this page and I hope Tim banishes you and your vile brain.

  227. 227
    pfft says:

    Dirty David thinks he is funny. Are you in middle school? LOL. Dirty David needs a timeout Tim!

  228. 228
    David says:

    RE: sfrz @ 225 – Considering what pfft has previously said about young children – being bannd would improve my company dramatically.

  229. 229

    IF Bitcoin comes crashing down, I wonder who the winners and losers will be, and what secondary markets will be impacted.

    One clear winner: The environment, as mining comes to a halt. So one secondary loser would be the folks that make the hardware on which Bitcoin is mined. And also William Shatner!

    https://www.coindesk.com/final-frontier-william-shatner-boldly-goes-into-bitcoin-mining/

    (You can get Bitcoin charts from that link under “Data & Research/Bitcoin Price Index.”)

  230. 230
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 228 – Another winner will be central Washington PUDs who can go back to supplying electricity to residential and commercial customers and not go into full panic mode about how they can keep up with the demand this fad has created.

  231. 231

    RE: Blurtman @ 202
    The Time Magazine Cover Features a Crying Infant With Trump

    That crying infant was Fake News…she was never separated from her Honduran parent. They lie to impeach Trump. Melania is right with her sarcastic jacket to the NWO, “I don’t really care…do you”….the NWO Fake News will allege lies against the First Lady anyway…Peter Fonda’s apology to Trump’s Secret Service probe agents, etc, etc….

  232. 232

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 228
    Stocks Swing Back and Forth Today

    YOY trends are much more accurate…

  233. 233

    RE: sfrz @ 222
    Amazon Would Gladly Give Money to NWO World Relief

    But none to America….they remind me of Microsoft.

  234. 234

    RE: pfft @ 220
    LOL Pffft

    The Chinese Great Wall is a HUGE success….it brings in more tourism than 10 Disney lands….if we built the Trump Wall with scenic hotels, resorts and Sierra Mountain viewing areas…both Mexico and America would make a fortune on it. But NWO open borders think making money for Mexico/America is evil if it builds the WALL…LOL

    We must add overpopulation and destroy our economy or we’re RACISTS…LOL

  235. 235

    RE: pfft @ 226
    Hey Pffft

    The polls are STRONGLY against you today:
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/21/rasmussen-parents-to-blame-border-crisis/

    Most Americans blame the Central American invaders, not Trump, for the border enforcement for Obama’s immigration laws on the books…

  236. 236
    ess says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 228:

    IF Bitcoin comes crashing down, I wonder who the winners and losers will be, and what secondary markets will be impacted.

    One clear winner: The environment, as mining comes to a halt. So one secondary loser would be the folks that make the hardware on which Bitcoin is mined. And also William Shatner!

    https://www.coindesk.com/final-frontier-william-shatner-boldly-goes-into-bitcoin-mining/

    (You can get Bitcoin charts from that link under “Data & Research/Bitcoin Price Index.”)

    Try as I do, I really can’t see any intrinsic value in bitcoin. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

  237. 237

    RE: softwarengineer @ 234
    More Polls Against the NWO Open Border Party Pffft

    We simply don’t want NWO open borders in America, why do you?

    https://www.numbersusa.com/news/poll-more-americans-support-zero-tolerance-policy-catch-release

  238. 238
    uwp says:

    By Eastsider @ 217:

    By greg @ 216:

    This is wrong on so many levels. What do you think about a fresh college grad paying $3850/yr for a ‘gold’ plan with a $1k medical deductible, $500 prescription deductible, 20% med. coinsurance, 30% prescription coinsurance and a $6350 out-of-pocket max? It has a very limited number of in-network providers and does not cover out-of-network expenses. A college grad making $30k+/yr gets no subsidy. So the health insurance, which will most likely not be used, costs more than double the federal (and state) income tax. Based on actuarial science, the premium for such a product should be well under $1000/yr.

    This is just wrong. I went to WAHealthplanfinder.org and ran a quote for a 22 y/o male with 30k income and they get subsidies. A Gold Plan with Kaiser is $260/mo after subsidy, has an $800 deductible, and $5,000 out of pocket max.

    I don’t know why a 22y/o is getting a Gold Plan. They most likely just need a catastrophic-type Bronze plan at $148/month.

    The ACA has its problems, but those are mostly because it tried to work within the current system of private insurers/providers.

  239. 239
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: uwp @ 237 – 2/3 of the US population does not have enough savings to pay for a $500 car repair.

    How are these people paying for $6K deductibles and $12K out of pocket costs for the Bronze plans they buy? This has been a question on my mind since the start of this fiasco.

  240. 240

    By wreckingbull @ 238:

    How are these people paying for $6K deductibles and $12K out of pocket costs for the Bronze plans they buy? This has been a question on my mind since the start of this fiasco.

    And that is likely the reason that overall medical spending has not been increasing at a fast clip. People have insurance, but they can’t afford to get anything done that’s not an annual physical.

    BTW, I forget if I mentioned this before, but at my last physical I asked my new doctor (this was before Kaiser) to refill my prescription for my “flight meds.” I told him the drug and quantity I wanted, which was the same as what the prior doctor at the same clinic prescribed. They tried to charge me over $100 for “diagnosis.” Hell, I already knew I don’t like to fly. I already know the drug and dose (which the new doctor got wrong). Not sure what he thought he diagnosed, other than how to try to bring in more money.

  241. 241
    Eastsider says:

    RE: uwp @ 237 – Try this – 22yo, 98004, $35000. There are 4 gold plans ranging from $3813.12 to $5,691! $35k/yr salary is barely above Seattle’s minimum wage.

    So how much should the mandated Obamacare premium cost for this young adult? You, pfft, greg, and stu don’t have an answer because Obamacare is not a health policy. All you do is to dismiss any valid criticism and direct all its failings to Trump and ‘right-wingers’.

  242. 242
    uwp says:

    By Eastsider @ 241:

    RE: uwp @ 237 – Try this – 22yo, 98004, $35000. There are 4 gold plans ranging from $3813.12 to $5,691! $35k/yr salary is barely above Seattle’s minimum wage.

    So how much should the mandated Obamacare premium cost for this young adult? You, pfft, greg, and stu don’t have an answer because Obamacare is not a health policy. All you do is to dismiss any valid criticism and direct all its failings to Trump and ‘right-wingers’.

    By Eastsider @ 241:

    RE: uwp @ 237 – Try this – 22yo, 98004, $35000. There are 4 gold plans ranging from $3813.12 to $5,691! $35k/yr salary is barely above Seattle’s minimum wage.

    You’ve increased your original complaint’s income by 15% to make it sadder. And you continue to assign a 22 year old a gold plan, rather than bronze.

    And I think health care should be covered by the government like most other developed countries.

  243. 243
    Justme says:

    On topic: Wow, another spike in the KC SFH inventory this week

    06.22.2018 12:00 3383

    A combination of a buyer strike and sellers running for the exists? Looking at the table for May 2018, the early indication is that it is mostly sellers that are realizing the party is over, and trying to get out NOW. Too late, if you ask me. Even the must naive bubble-buyers are catching on.

    Now comes the pain, which will be suffered most by those who least deserve it. This could all have been avoided, but too many people made greed, avarice and exploitation their business model.

  244. 244
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Justme @ 243 – There is no word for it, although the German language might have one, but our society puts home ownership on such a high pedestal that in the extreme (i.e. million-dollar crap-boxes) this value system can cause some rather poor life decisions. Just look at all the housing porn shows on cable networks these days as evidence.

  245. 245
    Justme says:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 244

    Perhaps “schadenjammer” would work , for lack of a better word, even in German.

    UPDATE: No real matches for “schadenjammer” on google, perhaps I invented a new word to use when schadenfreude does not describe the sentiment properly.

  246. 246

    By Justme @ 243:

    On topic: Wow, another spike in the KC SFH inventory this week

    06.22.2018 12:00 3383

    A combination of a buyer strike and sellers running for the exists? Looking at the table for May 2018, the early indication is that it is mostly sellers that are realizing the party is over, and trying to get out NOW. Too late, if you ask me. Even the must naive bubble-buyers are catching on.

    Now comes the pain, which will be suffered most by those who least deserve it. This could all have been avoided, but too many people made greed, avarice and exploitation their business model.

    It’s actually a few hundred higher than that, but still probably less than 1.5 month’s supply.

    The reason I say probably is not only that we don’t know what June sales will be, but also it may be that it’s more likely fewer people buying. May, 2018 pendings were below 2017, both for the month and YTD. It may be that trend is accelerating, perhaps even due to that Seattle Time’s article on how tough it is to be a buyer. That article exaggerated things to the extreme, but buyers don’t know that.

  247. 247
    N says:

    Re: Inventory levels – seems it keeps coming on strong, blowing past the levels of 2017, 2016 and now looking like we will end the week at the same levels of 2015 for this Friday in June. Is there a shift happening or just a temporary blip.

  248. 248
    Eastsider says:

    By uwp @ 242:

    You’ve increased your original complaint’s income by 15% to make it sadder. And you continue to assign a 22 year old a gold plan, rather than bronze.

    And I think health care should be covered by the government like most other developed countries.

    I mentioned $30k+ salary (as in the 30 thousands.) $31k is the living wage per Seattle city council.

    The gold plans still cost $3100 to $5000 for a 22yo making $30k. How is that affordable? Even the bronze plans cost $1800-$3200 with a deductible of $5.5k-$7k. Based on real actuarial science, not your fake narrative, what good is Obamacare to this young adult? You don’t have an answer. And you demand universal healthcare?!

  249. 249
    Eastsider says:

    RE: pfft @ 220 – You are basically ranting. Have you read Francis Menton’s piece? I thought you so wanted links. Why don’t you read it?

  250. 250
    pfft says:

    By David @ 228:

    RE: sfrz @ 225 – Considering what pfft has previously said about young children – being bannd would improve my company dramatically.

    what? we would just like you to stop being so gross.

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