{"id":104608,"date":"2017-06-29T13:14:21","date_gmt":"2017-06-29T20:14:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/?p=104608"},"modified":"2017-06-29T14:41:28","modified_gmt":"2017-06-29T21:41:28","slug":"zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/","title":{"rendered":"Zillow&#8217;s asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>You&#8217;ve probably heard about the asinine legal threat that Zillow lawyers sent to the architecture criticism blog <a href=\"http:\/\/mcmansionhell.com\/\" title=\"McMansion Hell\">McMansion Hell<\/a> <em>(currently offline)<\/em>, a popular blog that provides entertaining and educational commentary and criticism of the scourge of the McMansion. If you&#8217;re in the dark, allow me to summarize the events of earlier this week, with some of my own speculation and opinion thrown in (indicated in <em>italics<\/em> below).<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Monday morning:<\/strong> The <a href=\"https:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/news\/wonk\/wp\/2017\/06\/26\/the-ultimate-symbol-of-the-pre-recession-boom-is-back\/\" title=\"Washington Post: The ultimate symbol of the pre-recession boom is back\">Washington Post publishes a story and video about McMansions<\/a>, heavily featuring Kate Wagner and her blog McMansion Hell<\/li>\n<li><em><strong>Monday morning:<\/strong> A Zillow employee (or possibly a major Zillow customer) reads the Washington Post story, visits McMansion Hell, and sees the &#8220;Copyright Disclaimer&#8221; at the bottom of many of the blog&#8217;s posts stating that &#8220;All photographs in this post are from real estate aggregate Zillow.com.&#8221; The employee\/customer then notifies Zillow&#8217;s legal department.<\/em><\/li>\n<li><strong>Monday afternoon:<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mcmansionhell\/status\/879429709251137537\" title=\"Tweet by @mcmansionhell\">Zillow lawyers send a threatening email to Kate<\/a>, accusing her of copyright infringement and &#8220;fraud and interference with Zillow&#8217;s business expectations and interests&#8221; and demanding she delete all Zillow-sourced content from her site.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Monday afternoon:<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.geekwire.com\/2017\/zillow-threatens-architecture-critic-runs-mcmansion-hell-website-use-images\/\" title=\"Zillow threatens architecture critic who runs \u2018McMansion Hell\u2019 website over her use of images\">Kate takes McMansion Hell offline<\/a> while she seeks legal help and archives the site.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Monday afternoon:<\/strong> A number of legal experts reach out to Kate, offering support in defending her against Zillow&#8217;s <em>spurious<\/em> claims.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Tuesday morning:<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.geekwire.com\/2017\/mcmansion-hell-blogger-says-site-will-return-fighting-zillows-copyright-claim-help-electronic-frontier-foundation\/\" title=\"\u2018McMansion Hell\u2019 blogger says site will return, fighting Zillow\u2019s copyright claim with help from Electronic Frontier Foundation\">Zillow&#8217;s PR department sends Kate a follow-up letter<\/a> <em>in a lame attempt at damage control<\/em>.<\/li>\n<li><strong>Tuesday afternoon:<\/strong> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/mcmansionhell\/status\/879795641643409408\" title=\"Tweet by @mcmansionhell\">Kate announces that the EFF has agreed to represent her<\/a> should Zillow actually make the <em>incredibly moronic<\/em> decision to sue.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Since I&#8217;m not a lawyer, I&#8217;m not going to go into detail about the specific inaccuracies and overall stupidity of Zillow&#8217;s arguments against McMansion Hell. If you want to read about that, check out <a href=\"https:\/\/www.techdirt.com\/articles\/20170626\/14563337675\/zillow-sends-totally-bullshit-legal-threat-to-mcmansion-hell.shtml\" title=\"Zillow Sends Totally Bullshit Legal Threat To McMansion Hell\">this piece by Techdirt<\/a>, or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.techdirt.com\/articles\/20170628\/01531037682\/zillow-still-doesnt-get-it-second-letter-about-mcmansion-hell-is-still-just-wrong.shtml\" title=\"Zillow Still Doesn't Get It: Second Letter About McMansion Hell Is Still Just Wrong\">their follow-up story<\/a>, or this <em>(shudder)<\/em> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.buzzfeed.com\/jimdalrympleii\/zillow-went-after-this-23-year-olds-popular-real-estate\" title=\"A 23-Year-Old Woman Shut Down Her Real Estate Blog After Zillow Threatened Her\">Buzzfeed piece<\/a> with quotes from actual attorneys with expertise in copyright law, including the Ken White of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.popehat.com\/\" title=\"Popehat\">Popehat<\/a> fame.<\/p>\n<p>https:\/\/twitter.com\/Popehat\/status\/879705727828230150<\/p>\n<p>The main purpose of this post is to simply and publicly state that <strong>Seattle Bubble is one hundred percent in support of McMansion Hell in this dispute.<\/strong> Zillow&#8217;s threats are wrong, and they fully deserve the universally bad press they are getting for this move.<\/p>\n<p>Speaking of the bad press, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AZ\" title=\"Google Finance: Z\">Zillow stock<\/a> fell 4.25 percent on Tuesday (the first news of this fiasco broke after the close of trading on Monday). The Nasdaq was down just 1.59 percent and the S&#038;P 500 fell just 0.79 percent that day.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_104614\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-104614\" style=\"width: 1137px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"http:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png\" rel=\"lightbox[104608]\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png\" alt=\"Zillow stock performance during the day of the McMansion Hell threat fallout\" width=\"1137\" height=\"551\" class=\"size-full wp-image-104614\" srcset=\"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png 1137w, https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27-250x121.png 250w, https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27-350x170.png 350w, https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27-768x372.png 768w, https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27-700x339.png 700w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1137px) 100vw, 1137px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-104614\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Zillow stock performance during the day of the McMansion Hell threat fallout<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>There could definitely be another reason for this (correlation is not causation, etc.) but it&#8217;s certainly interesting that a loss of $274 million in market value coincided so neatly with all that negative public sentiment.<\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s hoping that <a href=\"http:\/\/mcmansionhell.com\/\" title=\"McMansion Hell\">McMansion Hell<\/a> comes back online and Kate is able to keep doing what she&#8217;s been doing. If you&#8217;d like to support Kate&#8217;s fight with Zillow&#8217;s abusive lawyers, she has asked that you <a href=\"https:\/\/www.eff.org\/helpout\" title=\"Ways You Can Help EFF\">donate to the EFF<\/a>. If you like what Kate is doing with McMansion Hell and want to support that work directly, you can <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patreon.com\/mcmansionhell\" title=\"Patreon: McMansion Hell\">support McMansion Hell on Patreon<\/a>.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2>Update: EFF eviscerates Zillow, Zillow promptly backs down<\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.eff.org\/deeplinks\/2017\/06\/mcmansion-hell-responds-zillows-unfounded-legal-claims\" title=\"McMansion Hell Responds to Zillow\u2019s Unfounded Legal Claims\">The EFF has posted their official response to Zillow<\/a> <em>(<a href=\"http:\/\/imgur.com\/a\/ml8J3\">backup screenshots for broken link<\/a>)<\/em>. Here&#8217;s an excerpt from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.eff.org\/files\/2017\/06\/29\/wagner_eff_letter_to_zillow_-_2017.06.29.pdf\" title=\"Wagner (EFF) Letter to Zillow - 2017.06.29\">the letter they sent to Zillow&#8217;s lawyer<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Our client has no obligation to, and thus will not, comply with Zillow\u2019s demands. Zillow\u2019s legal threats are not supported and plainly seek to interfere with protected speech.<br \/>\n&#8230;<br \/>\nIn our phone call yesterday, you suggested that Zillow\u2019s primary complaint against Wagner is based on Zillow\u2019s Terms of Use, which purports to prohibit any reproduction or modification of images found on Zillow\u2019s website. You stated that Zillow\u2019s agreements with third parties requires it to include such provisions in its Terms of Use and to enforce them. But Wagner is not bound by your Terms of Use and, even if she were, the relevant provisions are unenforceable.<\/p>\n<p>Courts routinely decline to enforce \u201cbrowsewrap\u201d agreements like Zillow\u2019s Terms of Use, which fail to present terms except via a hyperlink and without a checkbox to signal assent.<br \/>\n&#8230;<br \/>\nEven if an agreement were formed, paragraph 14 of the Terms of Use, asserting Zillow\u2019s right to alter the contract without notice or justification, would render the agreement illusory and void for lack of consideration. &#8230; Further, to the extent that Zillow\u2019s Terms of Use purport to undermine Wagner\u2019s freedom to operate the McMansion Hell website, such terms would be unenforceable under contract law doctrines that restrict surprising, unfair, or speech-restrictive terms, particularly in contracts of adhesion like the Terms of Use.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The EFF&#8217;s takedown of the legal trash from Zillow was extreme and thorough. It took less than a day for Zillow to back down. Via GeekWire: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.geekwire.com\/2017\/zillow-drops-complaint-mcmansion-hell-blog-backlash-copyright-claim\/\" title=\"Zillow drops complaint against \u2018McMansion Hell\u2019 blog after backlash over copyright claim\">Zillow drops complaint against \u2018McMansion Hell\u2019 blog after backlash over copyright claim<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cWe have decided not to pursue any legal action against Kate Wagner and McMansion Hell,\u201d a statement from the company said Thursday. \u201cWe\u2019ve had a lot of conversations about this, including with attorneys from the EFF, whose advocacy and work we respect. EFF has stated that McMansion Hell won\u2019t use photos from Zillow moving forward. It was never our intent for McMansion Hell to shut down, or for this to appear as an attack on Kate\u2019s freedom of expression. We acted out of an abundance of caution to protect our partners \u2014 the agents and brokers who entrust us to display photos of their clients\u2019 homes.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Good.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>You&#8217;ve probably heard about the asinine legal threat that Zillow lawyers sent to the architecture criticism blog <a href=\"http:\/\/mcmansionhell.com\/\" title=\"McMansion Hell\">McMansion Hell<\/a> <em>(currently offline)<\/em>, a popular blog that provides entertaining and educational commentary and criticism of the scourge of the McMansion. If you&#8217;re in the dark, allow me to summarize the events of earlier this week, with some of my own speculation and opinion thrown in (indicated in <em>italics<\/em> below)&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":104614,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"On the blog: Zillow's asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[199,198],"tags":[1069,1103,1166,1118,80],"coauthors":[1158],"class_list":["post-104608","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-opinion","category-news","tag-lawsuits","tag-legal","tag-mcmansion-hell","tag-opinion","tag-zillow"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Zillow&#039;s asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them \u2022 Seattle Bubble<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:title\" content=\"Zillow&#039;s asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them \u2022 Seattle Bubble\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:description\" content=\"You&#039;ve probably heard about the asinine legal threat that Zillow lawyers sent to the architecture criticism blog McMansion Hell (currently offline), a popular blog that provides entertaining and educational commentary and criticism of the scourge of the McMansion. 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If you're in the dark, allow me to summarize the events of earlier this week, with some of my own speculation and opinion thrown in (indicated in italics below)...","twitter_image":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png","twitter_creator":"@The_Tim","twitter_site":"@SeattleBubble","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"The Tim","Est. reading time":"5 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/","url":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/","name":"Zillow's asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them \u2022 Seattle Bubble","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/#primaryimage"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/#primaryimage"},"thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png","datePublished":"2017-06-29T20:14:21+00:00","dateModified":"2017-06-29T21:41:28+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/7de7c0dd14bee1a2c67f7ce86bc4505f"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/"]}]},{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/#primaryimage","url":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/Zillow-stock-McMansion-Hell-fallout_2017-06-27.png","width":1137,"height":551,"caption":"Zillow stock performance during the day of the McMansion Hell threat fallout"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/2017\/06\/29\/zillows-asinine-threat-mcmansion-hell-costing\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Zillow&#8217;s asinine threat to McMansion Hell is costing them"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/#website","url":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/","name":"Seattle Bubble","description":"local\u00a0real\u00a0estate\u00a0news, statistics,\u00a0and\u00a0commentary without\u00a0the\u00a0sales\u00a0spin.","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/7de7c0dd14bee1a2c67f7ce86bc4505f","name":"The Tim","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/seattlebubble.com\/blog\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/37756956c11dcc50d2559761ffa5ee70","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/19e5770990a1681615608091b2de571b10c3e03bbac7d07bb2ae15297ee72fbc?s=96&d=retro&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/19e5770990a1681615608091b2de571b10c3e03bbac7d07bb2ae15297ee72fbc?s=96&d=retro&r=g","caption":"The Tim"},"description":"Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. 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