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Seattle Bubble Forum Archive • View topic - Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Tax energy use instead of homeowners

How will housing affect the US and world economy? How will the economy affect housing?

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Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby meerwind7 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:42 pm

America can solve three major problems with one measure: Reducing property taxation on the local level and instead taxing energy consumption.

Compared to other countries like Germany, real estate property in the US is much more heavily taxed. Still, in poorer neighbourhoods, where a relatively large part of the pupils grow up, local taxes are insufficient to provide for adequate schools, as the value of property and thus the tax base is lower there.

In the US, energy is taxed much less than in other industrial states, with the consequence of high carbon emissions and more waste of energy. This waste of energy is now impacting the competitiveness of American economy, since energy prices have increased tremendously.
The simplest measure would be a flat and uniform tax rate on all primary energy consumption, except for renewables. Alternatively, a carbon tax could be introduced, though a rate based on primary energy would lead to less changes in energy markets and avoid windfall profits for nuclear power.
The income at the federal level shall be redistributed to the local level. For this redistribution, the number of school-age kids shall be a major criteria. Other population groups with special impact on public expenditures like infants or very old people also can be part of the formulae. Local tax districts shall be obliged to refund much of the income by reductions of property tax rates. Only in poorer neighbourhoods, with little property tax to reduce, an increase of expenditure for schools shall be part of the game.

The large tax relief for homeowners would have the consequence that house prices would fall less.
The second result would be more huge investments in energy saving measures, with particular impact in the building industry. As a result, expenses for energy and also oil imports from the Middle east would be reduced - not to speak of the climate change issue.
The third result would be a better education of pupils with parents that can only afford to live in poor neighbourhoods, which would improve human resources in the long run.

Congress should act now, so that property taxes are reduced from 2009 onwards, and shall not wait for presidential elections.
Last edited by meerwind7 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tax reform for a competitive America

Postby redmondjp » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:53 pm

Oh boy, here we go again! :roll:

Tax reform is not going to fix anything. Period. In poor areas, there isn't enough money to go around for anything, be it schools or for road repair (see Flint, MI).

From the gist of your post it appears that you (or whoever you cut & pasted this information from) is in favor of taxing rich, wealthy corporations and then handing out the money to all of the poor school districts in the country. Great. This will then be used as another justification for the wholesale offshoring of (what's left of) our industrial base which used to be the engine of our economy.

And this would have no effect on housing prices either.

Good try though, "NEXT!"
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Tax reform as relief to homeownership

Postby meerwind7 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:27 am

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Re: Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby ira s » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:19 am

In theory, I like this a lot.
But I show and view a lot of houses all over the Seattle area, and there are neighborhoods, where folks are lower middle class, and have older, inefficient homes. these are not the very poorest of the neighborhoods, but have older folks who aren't rich and don't have money to install new energy efficient furnaces and new windows, etc...but the people living in Wallingford who have more means will be the likely beneficiaries of something like this, the folks who have an interest and knowledge in energy efficiency, and the money to do something about it.
Older Lower middle class folks in Kent and Burien, living in these inefficient 50's homes?
Let 'em turn down their heat and wear a sweater?
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Re: Tax reform for a competitive America

Postby rose-colored-coolaid » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:25 am

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Re: Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby explorer » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:52 am

Agreed on this one RCC. A carbon tax would be far more effective, than any cap and trade plan I have seen. States like WA, who have supported C & T don't know squat about how it would really help, other than in theory. In practice--basing my info. on the European experience, who are using the Chicago Board of Trade model, it does not reduce anything that can be accurately measured. It DOES give middlemen a brand new securiites model to make money on selling what are basically "indulgences." It also gives the worst offenders the ability to delay the inevitable as well.

BTW, British Columbia announced last week that they are going to implement a Carbon Tax. Timeline is slated for the end of the year.

Utimately, the only thing that MIGHT delay the onset of the CO2 tipping point and lessen it's impact, is a Tax. Not only that, there would need to be price controls, and nationalization of power production (think City Light), to a non-profit model if private utilities balk. Degregulation of the utilities industry in this country was a huge mistake, and is also partly responisible for Enron. We should consider ourselves lucky we are not PA.

We have delayed this for so long, there are not many choices left. Not only that, we need to bring China in line with this. A tall order for the next Federal Administration.
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Re: Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby rose-colored-coolaid » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:50 pm

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Re: Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby Alan » Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:30 pm

Maybe we could also change the currency from the debt backed US Dollar to the energy backed calorie.
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Re: Tax energy use instead of homeowners

Postby WestSideBilly » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:24 am

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