The Stock Market

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The Stock Market

Postby lamont » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:35 am

Anyone else concerned about all the bulls claiming "the bottom is in", and the technical analysts predicting a continuing rally?

Macroeconomically, I don't think we've begun to deal with the reality of the recession that we're entering into. Having the economy shed 250,000 jobs in the first quarter of this year is 1/10th the job losses of the 2001 recession. If you also look at this chart here:

Image

The earnings curves on that graph tend to be fairly smooth, and you don't see sudden plateaus or whipsaws like you do in stock charts. The earnings growth or decline tends to be pretty similar to the earnings growth or decline the previous quarter. The best that we can hope for is that the earnings decline starts to decelerate this quarter, but its still going to be heavily down.

It seems like the stock market has also stopped discounting the future. I think you can see that in the run up to the '07 highs as each intermediate market motion started getting faster and more violent, and while the housing market topped in '06 the markets didn't get a whiff of this until '07 and they've largely been going into a panic over the financial crisis. Now that the fed lent support to the markets over BSC imploding, the markets have some faith that the entire global financial economy isn't going to go down and we're not going to all go back to living in caves in some kind of post-apocalyptic future without any money or finance. The recent rally seems to all be about the financial crisis working itself out and capitalism on the whole not going down in flames. Yay. Now we need to deal with the recession though.

And if you look at the price action of the markets it has been bizzare for a bull run. All these 300 to 400 point up days on the dow, folllowed by brutal corrections or what we've got for the past week which has been completely sideways and flat. Where are the big follow-through short-covering rallys that feed on themselves? If we really were primed for a bull-run I'd expect a lot more fireworks immediately after one of those 300 to 400 point days.

Thoughts?
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Re: The Stock Market

Postby rose-colored-coolaid » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:17 am

That's pretty sound analysis. Here's the thing, isn't a 20% correction typical during recessions? Basically everyone agrees were in a recession now and we still haven't seen that 20% correction. What's more, that 20% is for a mild recession, and thus far this looks like it may not be a mild recession.

But look at 2001 on your chart. During a clear bear market, there were two distinct and large rallies. My hunch is that we are currently in the middle of one of those.
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Re: The Stock Market

Postby deejayoh » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:46 am

Interesting to see that even in the 2001 downturn, the market never got to "fair value" territory, based on your chart.
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Re: The Stock Market

Postby laxtosnoco » Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:22 pm

The chart also assumes that earnings figures are accurate. With all of the writedowns we've seen lately, there were clearly some phantom earnings over the past several years, especially for financial sector stocks.
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Re: The Stock Market

Postby lamont » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:47 am

The rally isn't doing so good today... GE may have been a huge wakeup call... Didn't they post strong earnings for Q4 2007 which was critical in lending support to the theory that the weak dollar would prop up the economy and the recession would be shallow? I know that IBM was another company that made headlines with good earnings and so is probably a bellweather of the "shallow recession/weak dollar" theory....

Technically, I can still draw an uptrend under the recent rally where support isn't violated and all the markets are hovering above their 50-DMA. They're going to need to stage a rally early next week, though, to keep the bull alive. More bad earnings news next week and the bear will be back...
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Re: The Stock Market

Postby lamont » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:26 pm

5 hours later and a 256 pt down day for the DOW...

We'll see what monday/tuesday look like, but if the bulls don't rally, the "the bottom is in after BSC" rally is over...

Mr. Market, meet Mr. Recession.
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