Define middle class in Seattle

[sid]

Is a single 30 year old in Seattle with a 100K salary upper middle class? I definitely think so. Most folks at my work don't think so - consider this to be just middle class. What do folks here say?

[Alan]

Middle middle class if you are single.
Lower middle class if you are married with children.
Upper middle class earns around $300k.
If you earn more than $300k then you are upper class.

[sid]

[Alan]

[biliruben]

Didn't you get the memo? We are a classless society!

At least the guys with the money want you to think so. They prefer to keep you sniping at eachother about race or your political views. Keep your mind off the fact that your salary has been declining for a decade.

[Civil Servant]

(I love this topic.) I went out with some lawyers last week and one of them remarked in passing that her pre-law school salary of $80K was "not a living wage" in Seattle. Keep in mind too that this was $80K three or four years ago. Bartender, I'll have another one, please.

It is remarkable to me though how many people I meet in Seattle who are at least this well off (the lawyer's husband probably makes about $80K - $90K) and insist that they are middle class at best, barely making it. Even when they've bought their houses years and years ago, even when said houses are fully paid off. This is the only city I've lived in as an adult. If you'll forgive my naivete, is it like this everywhere? I feel like such a rube -- way back when I was a freshly minted state-school liberal arts grad, I never dreamed I'd be making what I am today and have a job with even more upward potential. I'm sure my parents would be really proud of my success, based on that number. I live well if judiciously and save a bundle. So it's disconcerting when friends suggest that by the prevalent standard I am nearly impoverished.

My own answer to Sid's question is Hell yes. But I suspect that *among* single 30-year-olds making in the range of $100K, the consensus is no. Sid, do you work in law or software/IT?

[rose-colored-coolaid]

Uh, no $100k is definitely upper middle class. It is well beyond what the typical family makes.

What's goofy in Seattle right now is that there is a significant difference in what that upper middle class income means depending on how old you are or how long you've been here. If you've been in Seattle since 1970, that salary means you've got a nice house in an older neighborhood, probably a boat, and so on. If you've been here since 2000, that salary means you've in an apartment, condo, or tiny decrepit house.

Either way, I tend to think in terms of personal freedom rather than class. If you live well within your means, $100k a year means you can take extended leaves of absence with no real negative impact. When we have a declining job market, like now, that freedom is one of the most valuable commodities.

[WestSideBilly]

Most people define their status by their peers, not society as a whole. So for a single child-free lawyer in Seattle, $80k feels pretty low when compared to other lawyers who are making $100k (single) or $180k (DINKs).

Anyone who can't get by quite nicely on $80k, regardless of their student loan debt, is doing something wrong.

[lamont]

[Alan]

If your family is earning $80k and are saving properly for retirement then you should be living a lower middle class lifestyle.

A lower middle class person can own a plasma television and a BMW if they are willing to turn their retirement savings into discretionary income.

But even if he is saving for retirement, he shouldn't be worrying about where the money for the next bill is coming from.

If you are worrying about how you are going to pay your bills then you are working class.

If you pay the salary of one more more working class people then you are upper class.

[rose-colored-coolaid]

[Ubersalad]

IMO, class is representation of income and asset, with more weight on the asset.

100k income with 2 million asset (solid executive) comparing to 300k income with no asset (RE agent/Mortgage Broker). Who do you think is better representative of middle class?

[david_mcmanus]

PAW = middle income, high net worth. entrepreneurs, small business owners, prodigious savers
UAW = high income, low net worth (RE agents, doctors, lawyers, tend to fall into this group). the faux rich, heavy spenders

See "The Millionaire Next Door".

[Dave0]

Lower Class = bottom 20% of income distribution
Lower MIddle Class = next 20% of income distribution above Lower Class
Middle Class = next 20% of income distribution above Lower Middle Class
Upper Middle Class = next 20% of income distribution above Middle Class
Upper Class = top 20% of income distribution

So using the data biliruben linked above, the classes are as follows:
Lower Class: <$25,000/year
Lower Middle Class: between $25,000 & $45,000 per year
Middle Class: between $45,000 & $70,000 per year
Upper Middle Class: between $70,000 & $120,000 per year
Upper Class: above $120,000/year

[Dave0]