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Seattle Bubble Forum Archive • View topic - Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Things you love, things you can't stand... anything and everything Seattle.

Moderators: synthetik, The Tim, Lake Hills Renter

Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby leaveseattle » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:59 am

So, there are no unqualified cyclists? Isn't possible that a less then professional cyclist could cause a traffic accident? Because they were not familar with the laws of our causeways?

How do I know that you are wearing glasses if you need to them see traffic signs?

How do I know that you do not have medical issues like seizures that could cause you to land on my windshield no fault of my own? Of course, when your body blinds me and I hit another car, the accident will go against me regardless of whether I am at fault,

How do I know you are old enough? How do I know if you know how to even read the road signs?

How do I know that you are informed of the laws of the road and how to obey traffic laws?

I think a lot of assumptions are made that if you are a cyclist you somhow need zero proof that you are safe to use the roads- where as anyone with a motor is-

Again- for the same reasons I need to prove I qualified to be on the road- you should as well.

And, 10 mph on a 35 mph road will significantly increase traffic jams, which causes more stop and go traffic and more idling cars, which will cause twice as many emissions as you save by cycling-

cyclists are not motor vehicles any more then my daughters big wheel- she can go pretty fast on her big wheel to her friends house, but I am not sure anyone would be happy to see her trucking down the road in rush hour traffic-

Bike paths throughout the city would provide the cyclists with a safe and mostly likely quicker way to go about their business. Perhaps, they would be more valued for what they do daily to help reduce the cost of gas, and environmental impact...
Or, maybe Seattle might figure it out that their highways, freeways, roads need desperate improvement and expansion, drivers might not be so worried about being delayed by a cyclist who is trying to contribute to a healthier environment, as a driver, every minute i am stuck on the road and made late for work costs me gas, and potential my job-Not to mention, I am worried enough about crazy drivers, and to add to it, I have add tiny little bikes weaving in and out of traffic- it is like space invaders gone totally wacky-

Cyclists should be insured, licensed and registered. I think we would all respect them and trust them a bit more if there was some accountability and quality control. It would help pay for better roads and perhaps environmental causes- fair is fair-everyone should pay for the use of the road.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Alan » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:12 am

Life is dangerous and not fair. Maybe you shouldn't be driving if you worry so much about bad things happening. Or maybe you should get a prescription for some anti-anxiety medication.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:24 am

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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:27 am

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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby leaveseattle » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:42 am

Riley Geary has analyzed U.S. Bicycle Traffic Fatalities from 1994 to 1998 using the NHTSA FARS database, concluding that

...adult urban cyclists now constitute the dominant modality among bicycle traffic fatalities in general, and that nighttime fatalities comprise at least half the problem in this class. This is out of all proportion to the amount of urban cycling actually being done at night, and strongly suggests more attention needs to be given to the entire nighttime bicycle conspicuity problem.

Twenty-four percent of bicyclists killed in 2006 had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) at or above 0.08 percent. This percentage is one-third higher than in 1982.

Age and gender

Deaths among bicyclists younger than 16 have gone down by 84 percent since 1975, while deaths among bicyclists 16 and older have more than doubled.

More than 7 times as many bicyclist deaths in 2006 were males compared with females. At every age more male than female bicyclists were killed and the rates of bicyclist deaths per million people were higher for males than females. The highest rate of bicyclist deaths per million people occurred for 50-54 year-old males.

Where they died

Many more bicyclists were killed in urban areas than in rural areas in 2006 (71 percent compared with 27 percent). In 1975, bicyclist deaths occurred equally in rural and urban areas.

Bicycles are one of the leading statistics in auto accidents. Many are fatal. Most others result in more serious injuries, often catastrophic injuries with life long effects. Are you included in these statistics? Below is a "do's and don'ts" guide to help you protect yourself after having been in a bicycle accident.

Here are some of the errors that bike riders frequently commit which greatly increase the chances of a collision with a motor vehicle:

1. They do not follow the traffic laws for vehicles when operating a bicycle. Instead,
a) they may use the traffic laws for pedestrians and thus ride on the sidewalks or the wrong way on the streets,
b) they may follow the traffic code for vehicles part of the time but not all of the time,
c) they may adopt a policy of hiding from motor vehicles rather than riding in the traffic lanes,
d) they may be guerilla cyclists deliberately breaking the law,
e) or they just might not think about how they are behaving.
2. They don't have lights mounted on their bikes when riding at night.
3. They ride along in the gutter or weave in and out between cars.
4. They don't pay attention to nearby vehicles.
5. They haven't learned how to control their bicycles effectively.
6. They panic when motor vehicles approach.
7. They don't keep the bike in sound mechanical condition.
8. They ride when too tired (or even drunk) to do so safely.

While there are both dangerous and clueless motorists, the vast majority have no desire to harm cyclists and attempt to drive safely and appropriately when cyclists are around. Motorists nearly always obey the traffic code, except for driving too fast, and they usually will cooperate with the cyclist.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:50 am

Wow, your list could sort of apply to drivers as well (which is what most cyclists are as well, btw). My son, when a bike messenger, went to two friends funerals. Both were killed at intersections. One was the cyclists fault, the other the drivers fault.

The good news about the bicycle fatalities, however, is that when the bicyclist was drunk careless or otherwise being less than careful, the only fatality was their own. If that ain't personal responsibility in action, I don't know what is!

BTW, a serious problem today is cell phones and texting. The way I see it, out on the roads now it is ALWAYS 15 MINUTES AFTER THE BARS CLOSE SATURDAY MORNING.

It is and always has been about DEFENSIVE driving/riding. That has saved me on my bike, on my motorcycle and even in my car. I can do crazy stuff on my bike if I am PAYING ATTENTION. I can in my car as well.

So far, so good.... ;)
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby biliruben » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:03 am

Fewer than 10 cyclists die annually in all of the state of Washington. Virtually every one is caused by an automobile running into them where the driver was at fault.

That tells me two things:

1) I pretty much don't need to worry about dying, as the risk is insignificant.

2) The onus is on the drivers and those in charge of infrastructure to stop killing bicyclists.

We should encourage as many people to bike as possible, and creating roadblocks, spending 10s of millions on dollars on needless bureaucracy instead of bike lanes and paths, and blaming the victim serves only to placate loudmouth drivers who can't stand having to tap their brakes and wait a second and a half before they can pass a bike safely and get back to the serious business of tailgating the car in front of them.

I've been knocked off my bike half a dozen times in this town by an inattentive driver. Every single time, they have been very apologetic and clearly at fault, and every time I've graciously accepted their apology. In general, Seattle is a great place to ride a bike. Just watch their eyes.

If you see one looking too closely, with eyes dilated, grinding their teeth and veering dangerously close to you, it's probably leaveseattle. Dive onto the nearest patch of grass and run for you life.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby leaveseattle » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:21 am

Bikes vs. Cars: Cyclists Cause More Accidents

Bike_ax_052307

It's been a long-running dispute around the Bay Area. Bicyclists complain that drivers don't share the road; drivers complain that bicyclists ignore traffic laws and get in the way. The issues fuel the monthly Critical Mass rides in San Francisco and in cities across the country, and tensions are rising after recent clashes here. So, "we wanted to get to the cold, hard facts" as we reported tonight at 11pm.

The latest CHP data on car-bike collisions that resulted in injury or death shows, most often, the cyclist is at fault. Take a look for yourself at the CHP statistics covering more than 11-thousand accidents around the bay during the past five years. Sixty percent of the time, the cyclist caused the crash. The most common violations that led to accidents were riding on the wrong side of the road, refusing to yield to an automobile's right of way, unsafe speed and ignoring traffic signals and signs. Cyclists who caused collisions were nearly three times more likely to be under the influence of alcohol, compared to drivers who caused accidents.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby biliruben » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:29 am

The police are notoriously anti-bicycle, so I don't find value in those statistics.

I have personally known 2 people hit by a car taking a right on red. Both times the biker has been cited and the driver has not, even though the driver was clearly at fault.

I agree bicyclists, especially young, inexperienced bikers, tend to have tryouts for the Darwin awards for the first year or two of biking in traffic. They either win the award, and some driver has to clean a bit of paint and blood off their bumper, or they learn to respect cars a bit more and become responsible cyclists.

Same rules apply for drivers, except the consequences of their actions are much more dire for those involved in an accident with them. That's why we make some attempt to license them.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby leaveseattle » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:29 am

By Ramonica R. Jones

A 25 year-old East Texas man is dead after being killed in a car wreck. The wreck happened Monday night on Highway 190, 1.7 miles east of FM 2500.

Polk County authorities say Chris Tucker rode his bike in front of a truck driven by Priscilla Thompson of Livingston.

You've probably been told to look both ways before crossing the street, but that's not always enough, especially for pedestrians.

"You need to wear some type of reflective material," DPS trooper Greg Sanches says. "Make sure you get way off the roadway and be looking, be observant, because you never know what can happen on the roadway."

Just because you're not in a car, doesn't mean you should count on drivers to watch out for you. It's your job to make sure they see you.

"Even if you have a crosswalk, you gotta remember cars are coming down that roadway," Trooper Sanches says. "You may have the right of way if you're in an area where there's a crosswalk, but still, you gotta be looking left right left and make sure that somebody is not about to run over you. Make sure you can get in a safe location before you are hit."

Bike riders are supposed to ride along with traffic, following the same rules that apply to cars and trucks. Pedestrians should walk toward traffic. That way, you can always see what's headed your way and avoid becoming the victim of a preventable tragedy.

Research shows about 75 percent of bicyclists are at fault in fatal accidents involving a car.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby biliruben » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:01 pm

A christ. Now we can expect the spam of articles delineating the dozen times in all history that a bicycle has seriously injured anyone besides himself.

Do you understand relative risks, leaveseattle? My guess is you never leave your house, for fear of being attacked by a pack of basset hounds, or being trampled by wild horses.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:03 pm

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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:10 pm

Leavingseattle's last post is a very poorly written story regarding the event itself. Regarding the "safety tips" section, I rack it up to the equivalent of "if we would all check the air pressure in our tires we wouldn't have to drill for oil" type of Captain Obvious drivel.

In the 60's, there was a defensive driving commercial that ended with this simple phrase, "yeah, he was right. Dead right." Defensive driving. That is the answer. Period. Nothing has changed here.

You want to stay safe? we need no more laws and could even do away with most of the ones we have. Just assume that every car/bicycle around you will probably do something stupid any second. It has worked for me the many times it turned out to be correct. How else can one keep getting hit by cars without goind down?

Not that it may not happen someday.
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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:11 pm

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Re: Seattle's In-Your-Face Cyclists

Postby Robroy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:13 pm

This thread is REALLY making me yearn for a nice long ride around the bottom of the lake after work! :mrgreen:
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