you better believe this is intentional and fully under the control of the central bankers and the corporate-owned Federal Reserve
Sorry, I don't believe the policy makers, or elites, are in "control" of what is going on for one second. Do you think that all the banking CEOs that have been fired over the last year wanted to lose their jobs? Did the management team at Bear Stearns want to be tossed out on their arses?
Neither do I think that these financial masters of the universe wanted to wind up in a situation where they would be hacking the budgets and bonuses of investment and charter banks.
Neither do I believe that the central bankers wanted this credit crunch to occur. If the Fed has so much "control" why are they then just slaves to the t-bill rates? After all, Fed fund rates do nothing more than track the movements in the treasury market. When the plot the two side by side you see that the Fed has been nothing more than following t-bill rates since it's inception. In fact, all the talk about Fed policy is completely hilarious since the only real policy is to follow t-bills.
Sure, Fed governers may want interest rates to go either up or down, but in the end they will always follow treasuries, rendering their personal opinions irrelevant. By the way, Greenspan has said exactly this in several interviews he has given in the last year.
What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to have a very strong desire to believe that there are powerful people who "control" the economy, even if this is for nefarious purposes. I suppose it's more comforting to believe that some cabal, with devious plans, is in control of things than to accept that we are all floating in a rudderless ship that no one has any control of (whatsoever).
you better believe this is intentional and fully under the control of the central bankers and the corporate-owned Federal Reserve
Sorry, I don't believe the policy makers, or elites, are in "control" of what is going on for one second. Do you think that all the banking CEOs that have been fired over the last year wanted to lose their jobs? Did the management team at Bear Stearns want to be tossed out on their arses?
Neither do I think that these financial masters of the universe wanted to wind up in a situation where they would be hacking the budgets and bonuses of investment and charter banks.
Neither do I believe that the central bankers wanted this credit crunch to occur. If the Fed has so much "control" why are they then just slaves to the t-bill rates? After all, Fed fund rates do nothing more than track the movements in the treasury market. When the plot the two side by side you see that the Fed has been nothing more than following t-bill rates since it's inception. In fact, all the talk about Fed policy is completely hilarious since the only real policy is to follow t-bills.
Sure, Fed governers may want interest rates to go either up or down, but in the end they will always follow treasuries, rendering their personal opinions irrelevant. By the way, Greenspan has said exactly this in several interviews he has given in the last year.
What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to have a very strong desire to believe that there are powerful people who "control" the economy, even if this is for nefarious purposes. I suppose it's more comforting to believe that some cabal, with devious plans, is in control of things than to accept that we are all floating in a rudderless ship that no one has any control of (whatsoever).
Watch the videos and you will understand the answers to the questions you pose. It's all there, historically documented in excruciating detail for all to see and verify for themself. The disinformation experts have done a very good job at discrediting those who rely on facts.
It is truly scary when Americans are not interested in research or sharing factual information, and are trained to label and discredit instead. This has become the norm in American society, unfortunately.
What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to have a very strong desire to believe that there are powerful people who "control" the economy, even if this is for nefarious purposes. I suppose it's more comforting to believe that some cabal, with devious plans, is in control of things than to accept that we are all floating in a rudderless ship that no one has any control of (whatsoever).
When foxes are in the hen house, there are all sorts of ways that public finances can be manipulated for personal or friends' gain, even legally. Remember those rolling blackouts in California? Turns out it wasn't a plant maintenance issue as reported, but rather individuals working alone or in small groups to drive up electricity prices, we now know. And boy did many people get rich off that. A friend of mine, a low-level power trader, got a $350K bonus that year.
Just one example at a national level, both Iraq wars were obviously orchestrated events, with the expected showering of massive wealth to certain groups. The continuously-made false link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda by two people in power has been the catalyst for a transfer of some $2 trillion of borrowed public money to the wealthy, so far. Plus it greatly drove up oil prices.
The record shows that the economy is not a rudderless ship.
I have an open mind, still, on this sort of stuff.
It's not so much about having an open mind. It's about how much time you are willing to spend chasing cars when there isn't compelling evidence. When these things come up, I usually go off and do some research. Basically, every time, the conspiracy ends up looking paranoid with no real justification.
Eventually, you reach the point of saying, "how much time will I waste even looking into this?" This is especially true when the conspiracies all start to sound the same and begin to blur together.
Again, on this topic (or any other) if someone actually brings compelling evidence to the table I will amend my views accordingly. It just overwhelmingly hasn't been the case with conspiracies.
I haven't looked at the videos, so don't know how "out there" they are. However, I was already convinced that the little guy will be intentionally screwed by those who control the economy's rudder, even if the rudder doesn't work so well. It may come down to an overnight bank asset freeze and currency devaluation, a la Argentina. That's why I was originally on the fence about selling my house. If cash is devalued by half, say, house prices should double, less some percentage due to potential buyers being suddenly poorer.
More likely the solution to prevent the country's dissolution will be a combination of things, including no new social security recipients except for the hardest luck cases (but you'll still pay SSN taxes), higher age limits for withdrawing 401K money and higher penalties for early withdrawal (both to keep people working until they die, which is why I no longer contribute), opening the floodgates to immigration, higher personal & capital gains taxes, high inflation, etc. The only question remaining for my planning is whether other countries will be hit hard enough that it isn't worth escaping the sinking boat. I suspect yes.
I watched it as far as where he said all the news anchors were reading a script they were given. It is interesting to read about how much influence special interests actually have, and how those come together and interact, but only if it doesn't suppose that the people involved are automatons doing the bidding of the cabal.
If people are really concerned that there is a conspiracy to put this country into debt to powerful corporations, then they are doing a very odd thing by supporting a leader with no experience running or investigating anything. Just "community organizing."
I have an open mind, still, on this sort of stuff.
It's not so much about having an open mind. It's about how much time you are willing to spend chasing cars when there isn't compelling evidence. When these things come up, I usually go off and do some research. Basically, every time, the conspiracy ends up looking paranoid with no real justification.
Eventually, you reach the point of saying, "how much time will I waste even looking into this?" This is especially true when the conspiracies all start to sound the same and begin to blur together.
Again, on this topic (or any other) if someone actually brings compelling evidence to the table I will amend my views accordingly. It just overwhelmingly hasn't been the case with conspiracies.
We are in TOTAL agreement here! I think that conspiracy theories are very popular with young people - and yeah, I was young once (if you get my drift). Ever notice the average age of the people running the Lyndon Larouche (sp?) stands. I don't think any of the guys have started shaving yet.
Ever notice the average age of the people running the Lyndon Larouche (sp?) stands. I don't think any of the guys have started shaving yet.
I saw a lot of those guys on my college campus. Not sure about their ages though. I always thought Larouche was more popular among the pot-smoking not-quite-a-hippy crowd. Of course, I was 20 at the time so maybe that's why they didn't seem so young.
Ever notice the average age of the people running the Lyndon Larouche (sp?) stands. I don't think any of the guys have started shaving yet.
I saw a lot of those guys on my college campus. Not sure about their ages though. I always thought Larouche was more popular among the pot-smoking not-quite-a-hippy crowd. Of course, I was 20 at the time so maybe that's why they didn't seem so young.
I worked downtown in the year or so before the latest Iraq war started and we had the "pre-war" anti-war rallies going on in front of my building a few blocks north of the federal building. One day we were watching them and the guy next to me and I were discussing that there was a definite demographic makeup of the crowd. I love his description, and it carries forward to this day: He said the crowd was basically "students and gray ponytails".
Those are the same gray ponytails you see at all the "conspiracy theory" speakers events at Holiday Inn's all over the country.
Which reminds me of one of my other favorite phrases: With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.
One day we were watching them and the guy next to me and I were discussing that there was a definite demographic makeup of the crowd. I love his description, and it carries forward to this day: He said the crowd was basically "students and gray ponytails".
We are in TOTAL agreement here! I think that conspiracy theories are very popular with young people - and yeah, I was young once (if you get my drift). Ever notice the average age of the people running the Lyndon Larouche (sp?) stands. I don't think any of the guys have started shaving yet.
People in power love people who demand evidence before they'll form an opinion. Makes it so much easier to profit! Just make nefarious decisions in private.
An example was Padilla, the "dirty bomber" who sat in solitary confinement for years before being charged. Turns out (after the Supreme Court forced the issue) that the government had no evidence that he planned to be a dirty bomber. But because his incarceration-without-charge was decided in secret, so they had no evidence either way, millions of people assumed he was guilty, or else didn't care at all. Those people should not vote IMO; otherwise they can easily harm the country.
He said the crowd was basically "students and gray ponytails".
So, they were educating themselves or looked like George Washington? Yeah, bad crowd.
Yeah, all those students and grey pony-tails were so "out-there" and way off-base marching against the war. No wisdom among that crowd. WTF?
Anyone NOT marching against the Iraq war should be pondering why they weren't and what tropical island of foolishness their wisdom was vacationing at while recovering from a tequila and jingoism cocktail hangover.
Pigeon-holing and marginalizing your fellow Americans because of what they look like rather than what they are saying is as pretty close to the opposite of wise that I can think of.
We are in TOTAL agreement here! I think that conspiracy theories are very popular with young people - and yeah, I was young once (if you get my drift). Ever notice the average age of the people running the Lyndon Larouche (sp?) stands. I don't think any of the guys have started shaving yet.
People in power love people who demand evidence before they'll form an opinion. Makes it so much easier to profit! Just make nefarious decisions in private.
An example was Padilla, the "dirty bomber" who sat in solitary confinement for years before being charged. Turns out (after the Supreme Court forced the issue) that the government had no evidence that he planned to be a dirty bomber. But because his incarceration-without-charge was decided in secret, so they had no evidence either way, millions of people assumed he was guilty, or else didn't care at all. Those people should not vote IMO; otherwise they can easily harm the country.
He said the crowd was basically "students and gray ponytails".
So, they were educating themselves or looked like George Washington? Yeah, bad crowd.
Yeah, all those students and grey pony-tails were so "out-there" and way off-base marching against the war. No wisdom among that crowd. WTF?
Anyone NOT marching against the Iraq war should be pondering why they weren't and what tropical island of foolishness their wisdom was vacationing at while recovering from a tequila and jingoism cocktail hangover.
Pigeon-holing and marginalizing your fellow Americans because of what they look like rather than what they are saying is as pretty close to the opposite of wise that I can think of.
That said, Siddha. Dude. Reel it in.
And what exactly did we know then? What did they know then? Nothing. My buddies and I knew enough to take GWB at his word when he said, just a few days after 911, "This crusade, this war on terrorism is gonna take awhile. And the American people must be patient. I'm gonna be patient. - President George W. Bush, September 16, 2001"
Notice he used the word "Crusade" in a written speech. That is not an accident.
The crowd in the march was doing the standard lockstep thing without full knowledge. And it is very clear that it was the right decision to go. I figure we will be there as long as we have been in Germany since world war II. I also believed (before we went in) that that was the plan in the first place: A large US presence in the heart of Islam. I was not alone in that belief.
Have we hijacked this thread?
I'll be blunt: Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the mid 1930's.
There. Regardless of it's accuracy, does this effectively invoke Godwin's law and kill the thread?
Heh. Okay, Robroy. You've pretty much proved my point for me.
I was down in that march you were scoffing at, along side a doctor, an economist, a veterinarian, and a lawyer. None students, none with pony-tails (though I have a bit of grey), and we were generally of the consensus that before we go off to conquer a country we should know a few things before doing so, to justify the conquest, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents, the destruction of millions of lives and the bankrupting, both morally and economically, of our great nation.
This isn't the thread to hash it out, and you have already essentially declared wisdom to be your weak-suit, so I don't have much interest in debating the point with you. I appreciate your confession, however, and wish you immense frustration in your unfulfilled imperialist vision.
And what exactly did we know then? What did they know then?
If you have to ask, then you shouldn't be voting. Anyone then could have known, with just a little research, that the threat was a farce. And the reason for the trumped-up threat was obvious, with obvious huge negative consequences that have now been realized.
I agree with biliruben that "Anyone NOT marching against the Iraq war should be pondering why they weren't". Or at least not voting.
The tie-in to the OP is this: You can discern the BIG PICTURE with a lack of evidence. Lack of evidence is evidence in its own right.
I believe that if most of us here actually MET and discussed issues other than what we do here, we would find there was a lot to like (and probably dislike) and a lot of shared interests. Heck, my friend I've done the STP with for 14 straight years is politically diametrically opposed to me. We love to jibe each other with this stuff, especially on 200 miles of blacktop at 23 mph. It breaks the monotony.
I also suspect semi-anonymity allows many of us to let down our guard and say things or use a tone that we would not use when participating in face to face discourse. E.g. If I was saying rather than typing that last sentence I would have said. "Shoot! I wouldn'ta said that stuff to yer face!"
Does this site have "get-togethers" at all? I think it should. I do a lot of work with clients around the country and it is AMAZING what difference it makes in our conference calls once I've flown out to actually meet them. The meeting of the minds thing goes into hyperdrive. They know when I'm kidding, etc.
'Course, it could also turn into a "know-it-all" fest. And as I've said many times before, those who think they know it all really annoy those of us who do.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
My mistake. Let's all just take the blue pill.
Matthew 7: 6. It is what I applied to my ex-wife during the divorce 11 years ago. I learned the lessons of NOT following that verse. It is also why I do not give to beggars in downtown.
Comments
:roll:
Sorry, I don't believe the policy makers, or elites, are in "control" of what is going on for one second. Do you think that all the banking CEOs that have been fired over the last year wanted to lose their jobs? Did the management team at Bear Stearns want to be tossed out on their arses?
Neither do I think that these financial masters of the universe wanted to wind up in a situation where they would be hacking the budgets and bonuses of investment and charter banks.
Neither do I believe that the central bankers wanted this credit crunch to occur. If the Fed has so much "control" why are they then just slaves to the t-bill rates? After all, Fed fund rates do nothing more than track the movements in the treasury market. When the plot the two side by side you see that the Fed has been nothing more than following t-bill rates since it's inception. In fact, all the talk about Fed policy is completely hilarious since the only real policy is to follow t-bills.
Sure, Fed governers may want interest rates to go either up or down, but in the end they will always follow treasuries, rendering their personal opinions irrelevant. By the way, Greenspan has said exactly this in several interviews he has given in the last year.
What I find fascinating is that so many people seem to have a very strong desire to believe that there are powerful people who "control" the economy, even if this is for nefarious purposes. I suppose it's more comforting to believe that some cabal, with devious plans, is in control of things than to accept that we are all floating in a rudderless ship that no one has any control of (whatsoever).
Watch the videos and you will understand the answers to the questions you pose. It's all there, historically documented in excruciating detail for all to see and verify for themself. The disinformation experts have done a very good job at discrediting those who rely on facts.
It is truly scary when Americans are not interested in research or sharing factual information, and are trained to label and discredit instead. This has become the norm in American society, unfortunately.
Just one example at a national level, both Iraq wars were obviously orchestrated events, with the expected showering of massive wealth to certain groups. The continuously-made false link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda by two people in power has been the catalyst for a transfer of some $2 trillion of borrowed public money to the wealthy, so far. Plus it greatly drove up oil prices.
The record shows that the economy is not a rudderless ship.
But I will watch these videos, at least as much as they keep me interested
I have a very interesting book that is fairly old called "None dare call it conspiracy". I have an open mind, still, on this sort of stuff.
It's not so much about having an open mind. It's about how much time you are willing to spend chasing cars when there isn't compelling evidence. When these things come up, I usually go off and do some research. Basically, every time, the conspiracy ends up looking paranoid with no real justification.
Eventually, you reach the point of saying, "how much time will I waste even looking into this?" This is especially true when the conspiracies all start to sound the same and begin to blur together.
Again, on this topic (or any other) if someone actually brings compelling evidence to the table I will amend my views accordingly. It just overwhelmingly hasn't been the case with conspiracies.
More likely the solution to prevent the country's dissolution will be a combination of things, including no new social security recipients except for the hardest luck cases (but you'll still pay SSN taxes), higher age limits for withdrawing 401K money and higher penalties for early withdrawal (both to keep people working until they die, which is why I no longer contribute), opening the floodgates to immigration, higher personal & capital gains taxes, high inflation, etc. The only question remaining for my planning is whether other countries will be hit hard enough that it isn't worth escaping the sinking boat. I suspect yes.
If people are really concerned that there is a conspiracy to put this country into debt to powerful corporations, then they are doing a very odd thing by supporting a leader with no experience running or investigating anything. Just "community organizing."
I saw a lot of those guys on my college campus. Not sure about their ages though. I always thought Larouche was more popular among the pot-smoking not-quite-a-hippy crowd. Of course, I was 20 at the time so maybe that's why they didn't seem so young.
Those are the same gray ponytails you see at all the "conspiracy theory" speakers events at Holiday Inn's all over the country.
Which reminds me of one of my other favorite phrases: With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.
Yeah, that sounds a lot more like what I've seen.
An example was Padilla, the "dirty bomber" who sat in solitary confinement for years before being charged. Turns out (after the Supreme Court forced the issue) that the government had no evidence that he planned to be a dirty bomber. But because his incarceration-without-charge was decided in secret, so they had no evidence either way, millions of people assumed he was guilty, or else didn't care at all. Those people should not vote IMO; otherwise they can easily harm the country.
So, they were educating themselves or looked like George Washington? Yeah, bad crowd.
Anyone NOT marching against the Iraq war should be pondering why they weren't and what tropical island of foolishness their wisdom was vacationing at while recovering from a tequila and jingoism cocktail hangover.
Pigeon-holing and marginalizing your fellow Americans because of what they look like rather than what they are saying is as pretty close to the opposite of wise that I can think of.
That said, Siddha. Dude. Reel it in.
Notice he used the word "Crusade" in a written speech. That is not an accident.
The crowd in the march was doing the standard lockstep thing without full knowledge. And it is very clear that it was the right decision to go. I figure we will be there as long as we have been in Germany since world war II. I also believed (before we went in) that that was the plan in the first place: A large US presence in the heart of Islam. I was not alone in that belief.
Have we hijacked this thread?
I'll be blunt: Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the mid 1930's.
There. Regardless of it's accuracy, does this effectively invoke Godwin's law and kill the thread?
Instead, it's... well, I can't really figure out what it's about.
I was down in that march you were scoffing at, along side a doctor, an economist, a veterinarian, and a lawyer. None students, none with pony-tails (though I have a bit of grey), and we were generally of the consensus that before we go off to conquer a country we should know a few things before doing so, to justify the conquest, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents, the destruction of millions of lives and the bankrupting, both morally and economically, of our great nation.
This isn't the thread to hash it out, and you have already essentially declared wisdom to be your weak-suit, so I don't have much interest in debating the point with you. I appreciate your confession, however, and wish you immense frustration in your unfulfilled imperialist vision.
I agree with biliruben that "Anyone NOT marching against the Iraq war should be pondering why they weren't". Or at least not voting.
The tie-in to the OP is this: You can discern the BIG PICTURE with a lack of evidence. Lack of evidence is evidence in its own right.
I don't have to ask. It was a rhetorical question. At least to me it was. Probably not for those in the march though.
But to be fair. If anyone wants the last word, feel free. I will stay on topic in this thread from here on.
I kid, I kid...
Whatever the actual topic of this thread is, I wholeheartedly endorse staggering back to it.
I also suspect semi-anonymity allows many of us to let down our guard and say things or use a tone that we would not use when participating in face to face discourse. E.g. If I was saying rather than typing that last sentence I would have said. "Shoot! I wouldn'ta said that stuff to yer face!"
Does this site have "get-togethers" at all? I think it should. I do a lot of work with clients around the country and it is AMAZING what difference it makes in our conference calls once I've flown out to actually meet them. The meeting of the minds thing goes into hyperdrive. They know when I'm kidding, etc.
'Course, it could also turn into a "know-it-all" fest. And as I've said many times before, those who think they know it all really annoy those of us who do.
My mistake. Let's all just take the blue pill.