... AND YOU CAN'T SELL THE HOUSE..without suffering a huge loss compounded by 1000s in sales tax (thanks gregor) ...
Points of fact: taxes are necessary, they gotta come from somewhere, and we have no income tax in WA like most states do.
We have some of the highest sales taxes in the country...Huge B&0 taxes and other business taxes (Who do you think ends up paying for them).... We also have the highest Gas tax in the US....
We are in the top 3rd of the states in Taxes ...So please....give it a break....Finally Our state spending has gone up 33% in the last 4 years...Are the schools better?....Are the roads better?....Is the ferry system financially stable?
HOW do you think the huge deficit will be paid for...By cutting ...In your dreams.
The lender had all the cards when the contract was drawn....they decided the Terms, and wrote the contract....they vetted not just the Borrower, but also did an appraisal of the property.
Huh? The buyer made the decision to buy, how much to spend, who to borrow from, who to use as an agent, etc. No one has more control over the transaction than the buyer.
Guess again....99% of buyers need a load to buy a house....The lender sets all the rules, draws up the non-negotiable contract and has total control of the collateral...
The buyer gets to pick the lender...big deal...how different are they
We have some of the highest sales taxes in the country...Huge B&0 taxes and other business taxes (Who do you think ends up paying for them).... We also have the highest Gas tax in the US....
But no state income tax, like most other states have. Subtract that out, then what do you have?
We are in the top 3rd of the states in Taxes ...So please....give it a break....Finally Our state spending has gone up 33% in the last 4 years...Are the schools better?....Are the roads better?....Is the ferry system financially stable?
I still pay less taxes for the services I get in WA than I would in, say, Idaho. Better that business pays taxes than me, as long as business stays relatively strong, and it's way stronger here than in Idaho. The roads and schools are good here, save in Seattle proper. So I have little reason to complain.
I urged a friend of mine to move from Moscow, ID, to Pullman, WA, where he works. He finally did, and calculated that he's saving a couple $thousand a year in taxes.
State budgets being in the hole is a nationwide issue now.
When all Washington taxes are totaled up, the study found that:
# The wealthiest one percent of Washington taxpayers—with average incomes of $1.6
million—pay only 3.3% of their income in Washington state and local taxes. After
accounting for tax savings from federal itemized deductions the effective rate becomes
just 3.2%.
# Middle-income Washington taxpayers earning between $31,000 and $48,000 pay
11.1% of their income in Washington state and local taxes, almost three and a half
times the effective rate of the very wealthy.
# But Washington families earning less than $17,000—the poorest fifth of Washington
non-elderly taxpayers—pay a whopping 17.6% of their income in state and local taxes,
mor than five times the rate on the best off.
The study found that Washington's taxes are so extremely regressive because the state lacks
an income tax and instead relies primarily on regressive sales and excise taxes to pay for public
services.
Here in progressive Washington, we harness the poor to pay our taxes so the rich don't have to!
That seems to be a non-partisan group, making their conclusion more believable. Still, I have a hard time believing that Idaho's 6% income tax and 6% sales tax works out better than WA's 9% sales tax only, for middle-income earners. There's no sales tax on food in WA, so if you're frugal in WA, you don't pay much tax even if you're relatively poor. We have "Huge B&0 taxes" here, as Big Mike notes, which is effectively a tax on the rich.
The B&O Taxes are a fraction of a penny. I'm not sure who considers that huge.
The problem is that B&O is levied on revenue, not on profit. No problem for Microsoft because their margins are so high. No problem for Boeing, because they have some gimmick in how they deliver the airplanes. But it is significant for manufacturers and service providers who are competing with companies in other states where the costs are not taxed. Anyway, the great thing is you can vote with your feet if think another state is so much better. Since people are continuing to move into this area to get the jobs being created here, they seem to be doing something right.
... AND YOU CAN'T SELL THE HOUSE..without suffering a huge loss compounded by 1000s in sales tax (thanks gregor) ...
Points of fact: taxes are necessary, they gotta come from somewhere, and we have no income tax in WA like most states do.
We have some of the highest sales taxes in the country...Huge B&0 taxes and other business taxes (Who do you think ends up paying for them).... We also have the highest Gas tax in the US....
We are in the top 3rd of the states in Taxes ...So please....give it a break....Finally Our state spending has gone up 33% in the last 4 years...Are the schools better?....Are the roads better?....Is the ferry system financially stable?
Actually, almost everywhere my wife and I drive we have to go through road construction, some of it formidable. So the roads really DO seem to be getting better (outside of Seattle anyway).
HOW do you think the huge deficit will be paid for...By cutting ...In your dreams.
How would a family in the same predicament handle it? Maybe cancel the frills:
- cable/satellite tv
- Eat out less
- repair old car instead of buy a new one.
That is, maybe reducing spending and dumping "nice to have" stuff would be more effective than raising taxes. After all, raising taxes does not guarantee increased tax revenue and vice versa. Why do you think Boeing is now a "Chicago" company?
When all Washington taxes are totaled up, the study found that:
# The wealthiest one percent of Washington taxpayers—with average incomes of $1.6
million—pay only 3.3% of their income in Washington state and local taxes. After
accounting for tax savings from federal itemized deductions the effective rate becomes
just 3.2%.
# Middle-income Washington taxpayers earning between $31,000 and $48,000 pay
11.1% of their income in Washington state and local taxes, almost three and a half
times the effective rate of the very wealthy.
# But Washington families earning less than $17,000—the poorest fifth of Washington
non-elderly taxpayers—pay a whopping 17.6% of their income in state and local taxes,
mor than five times the rate on the best off.
The study found that Washington's taxes are so extremely regressive because the state lacks
an income tax and instead relies primarily on regressive sales and excise taxes to pay for public
services.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is very expensive to be poor in this country.
-Prepaid phone calls cost more than post-paid
-An old beater car costs more to operate than a newer car
-Payday loans cost more than a PLC backed checking account
-If you can get a loan, it costs more with a 400 credit score
And on and on. It is a great incentive to get out of poverty. And this IS the land of opportunity!
Guess again....99% of buyers need a load to buy a house....The lender sets all the rules, draws up the non-negotiable contract and has total control of the collateral...
The buyer gets to pick the lender...big deal...how different are they
Actually, the buyer gets to choose whether or not to buy at all. Maybe they need to save more down payment.
In my case I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL. The terms and prices sucked so I opted out and LITERALLY save thousands a month for a down payment because I RENT. When this thing falls out and things are looking good again in 2011 or 2012, I'll be able to choose my terms.
He!!, I may be able to pay cash and the lenders can take a hike.
We have some of the highest sales taxes in the country...Huge B&0 taxes and other business taxes (Who do you think ends up paying for them).... We also have the highest Gas tax in the US....
But no state income tax, like most other states have. Subtract that out, then what do you have?
We are in the top 3rd of the states in Taxes ...So please....give it a break....Finally Our state spending has gone up 33% in the last 4 years...Are the schools better?....Are the roads better?....Is the ferry system financially stable?
I still pay less taxes for the services I get in WA than I would in, say, Idaho. Better that business pays taxes than me, as long as business stays relatively strong, and it's way stronger here than in Idaho. The roads and schools are good here, save in Seattle proper. So I have little reason to complain.
I urged a friend of mine to move from Moscow, ID, to Pullman, WA, where he works. He finally did, and calculated that he's saving a couple $thousand a year in taxes.
State budgets being in the hole is a nationwide issue now.
Markor:
News Flash...How does a business get the money to pay Taxes or Employees....THEY CHARGE MORE FOR THEIR PRODUCT....I am always amazed that people think businesses pay taxes...what ever the tax is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price...
You may think there is no taxes on food...well poor people are charged for the bag..and pay the higher food price...The corn we are now putting into our gas tank is driving up the price of animal food with is driving up the cost of meat...The gas prices (and our huge gas tax) drive up the cost of Food which is all shipped on trucks..
ALL TAXES ARE EVENTUALLY PAID BY THE CONSUMER...MOST TAXES END UP BEING PAID BY BOTH THE RICH AND THE POOR...
Guess again....99% of buyers need a load to buy a house....The lender sets all the rules, draws up the non-negotiable contract and has total control of the collateral...
The buyer gets to pick the lender...big deal...how different are they
Actually, the buyer gets to choose whether or not to buy at all. Maybe they need to save more down payment.
In my case I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL. The terms and prices sucked so I opted out and LITERALLY save thousands a month for a down payment because I RENT. When this thing falls out and things are looking good again in 2011 or 2012, I'll be able to choose my terms.
He!!, I may be able to pay cash and the lenders can take a hike.
But when you do decide to buy....The bank you choose will have total control...
Guess again....99% of buyers need a load to buy a house....The lender sets all the rules, draws up the non-negotiable contract and has total control of the collateral...
The buyer gets to pick the lender...big deal...how different are they
Actually, the buyer gets to choose whether or not to buy at all. Maybe they need to save more down payment.
In my case I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL. The terms and prices sucked so I opted out and LITERALLY save thousands a month for a down payment because I RENT. When this thing falls out and things are looking good again in 2011 or 2012, I'll be able to choose my terms.
He!!, I may be able to pay cash and the lenders can take a hike.
But when you do decide to buy....The bank you choose will have total control...
That is simply not universal.
It is absolutely true that buyers have control, but some have more and some have less, depending on credit rating and many other factors. Almost all borrowers have much more power than they think.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, it is very expensive to be poor in this country.
-Prepaid phone calls cost more than post-paid
-An old beater car costs more to operate than a newer car
-Payday loans cost more than a PLC backed checking account
-If you can get a loan, it costs more with a 400 credit score
Being poor doesn't mean that one has to make bad decisions. I used to live on $1K a month in today's dollars. I was living like a king and still saved 20% of my income.
- Buy a decent used car, not a beater
- Get a roommate
- Pay all bills on time
- Be vegetarian (cheaper, healthier)
- Buy from Goodwill and craigslist
- Prepaid phone calls are only 4 cents/min from MCI--cheap (and email's free at the library)
- Buy on credit only in an emergency
And on and on. It is a great incentive to get out of poverty. And this IS the land of opportunity!
Agreed. All one has to do is pay attention in public school and crack some books thereafter. I don't have much sympathy for people just scraping by.
News Flash...How does a business get the money to pay Taxes or Employees....THEY CHARGE MORE FOR THEIR PRODUCT....I am always amazed that people think businesses pay taxes...what ever the tax is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price...
Yet prices here are not significantly higher than in other states, that I can see. On the internet, prices are the same for all Americans.
You may think there is no taxes on food...well poor people are charged for the bag..and pay the higher food price...The corn we are now putting into our gas tank is driving up the price of animal food with is driving up the cost of meat...The gas prices (and our huge gas tax) drive up the cost of Food which is all shipped on trucks..
They can stop eating meat at any time; that's a want, not a need. The bag is $1 and lasts for a year or more. You implied that taxes are higher in WA. On grocery store food they are zero. High gas prices affect food prices across the nation. Perhaps higher gas taxes in WA than in other states makes food higher priced here, but I doubt it's a significant difference.
ALL TAXES ARE EVENTUALLY PAID BY THE CONSUMER...MOST TAXES END UP BEING PAID BY BOTH THE RICH AND THE POOR...
Sure, but taxes are still low for middle-income earners in WA, relative to other states. No way does Idaho's 6% income tax and 5% sales tax work out to less tax.
When I sold my house I had no issue with paying the 2% excise tax, as I feel that my taxes here in WA are already low compared to most any other state. Not only do I not pay a state income tax, even my property taxes were half or less what I would pay in some other states.
Being poor doesn't mean that one has to make bad decisions.
First a note on that statement. I think of it like the "carbon dioxide causes global warming" thing. That is, I agree with you except I think the normal condition is the converse. Just as warming causes increased CO2 (and not the reverse), bad decisions are what universally cause poverty (health events and other tragedies notwithstanding).
But I agree with your whole post. My wife and I have discovered that the cheapest place to get stuff is garage sales, second is Craigslist, and third is eBay and other internet sites.
About the only thing we buy from stores nowadays is food and clothing, and even the latter is coming from used sources more and more. And we are living on a six digit income!
First a note on that statement. I think of it like the "carbon dioxide causes global warming" thing. That is, I agree with you except I think the normal condition is the converse. Just as warming causes increased CO2 (and not the reverse), bad decisions are what universally cause poverty (health events and other tragedies notwithstanding).
Careful, you're mixing metaphors. Again.
My opinion, is that many people simply do not know how to get out of poverty. It used to be, that you got out of school (HS usually) and found an entry level job. Your first day, a manager came around and said, "Sure you're sweeping floors now, but if you work hard you could be running a night crew in 5 years and a middle manager in 15. It was straight forward, you had mentors in place, and all you had to do was "follow the rules."
Things are quite different now. Which means if you figure things out, you can get 6 figures shortly out of college, but if you don't there's typically no one there to mentor you.
First a note on that statement. I think of it like the "carbon dioxide causes global warming" thing. That is, I agree with you except I think the normal condition is the converse. Just as warming causes increased CO2 (and not the reverse), bad decisions are what universally cause poverty (health events and other tragedies notwithstanding).
Careful, you're mixing metaphors. Again.
My opinion, is that many people simply do not know how to get out of poverty. It used to be, that you got out of school (HS usually) and found an entry level job. Your first day, a manager came around and said, "Sure you're sweeping floors now, but if you work hard you could be running a night crew in 5 years and a middle manager in 15. It was straight forward, you had mentors in place, and all you had to do was "follow the rules."
Things are quite different now. Which means if you figure things out, you can get 6 figures shortly out of college, but if you don't there's typically no one there to mentor you.
Yes, I think we agree on this. Mentoring is huge. But mentors come from everywhere.
My problem with a lot of this is that I have known LOTS of people that are poor but had ample opportunity. They were just sidetracked by chicks, booze, drugs, video games - Heck, you name it. It was all about making bad decisions and personal responsibility. And here they are living in a single wide in Algona driving one of the last barely surviving Chevy Vegas...
I might point out that this is where I was headed until the Lord intervened, literally. He changed my life.
Comments
We have some of the highest sales taxes in the country...Huge B&0 taxes and other business taxes (Who do you think ends up paying for them).... We also have the highest Gas tax in the US....
We are in the top 3rd of the states in Taxes ...So please....give it a break....Finally Our state spending has gone up 33% in the last 4 years...Are the schools better?....Are the roads better?....Is the ferry system financially stable?
HOW do you think the huge deficit will be paid for...By cutting ...In your dreams.
Guess again....99% of buyers need a load to buy a house....The lender sets all the rules, draws up the non-negotiable contract and has total control of the collateral...
The buyer gets to pick the lender...big deal...how different are they
I still pay less taxes for the services I get in WA than I would in, say, Idaho. Better that business pays taxes than me, as long as business stays relatively strong, and it's way stronger here than in Idaho. The roads and schools are good here, save in Seattle proper. So I have little reason to complain.
I urged a friend of mine to move from Moscow, ID, to Pullman, WA, where he works. He finally did, and calculated that he's saving a couple $thousand a year in taxes.
State budgets being in the hole is a nationwide issue now.
Most regressive taxes of the 50 states.
If you are rich enough, you just lobby the legislature, threaten to leave the state, and they wave it anyway.
The problem is that B&O is levied on revenue, not on profit. No problem for Microsoft because their margins are so high. No problem for Boeing, because they have some gimmick in how they deliver the airplanes. But it is significant for manufacturers and service providers who are competing with companies in other states where the costs are not taxed. Anyway, the great thing is you can vote with your feet if think another state is so much better. Since people are continuing to move into this area to get the jobs being created here, they seem to be doing something right.
- cable/satellite tv
- Eat out less
- repair old car instead of buy a new one.
That is, maybe reducing spending and dumping "nice to have" stuff would be more effective than raising taxes. After all, raising taxes does not guarantee increased tax revenue and vice versa. Why do you think Boeing is now a "Chicago" company?
-Prepaid phone calls cost more than post-paid
-An old beater car costs more to operate than a newer car
-Payday loans cost more than a PLC backed checking account
-If you can get a loan, it costs more with a 400 credit score
And on and on. It is a great incentive to get out of poverty. And this IS the land of opportunity!
In my case I HAVE TOTAL CONTROL. The terms and prices sucked so I opted out and LITERALLY save thousands a month for a down payment because I RENT. When this thing falls out and things are looking good again in 2011 or 2012, I'll be able to choose my terms.
He!!, I may be able to pay cash and the lenders can take a hike.
Markor:
News Flash...How does a business get the money to pay Taxes or Employees....THEY CHARGE MORE FOR THEIR PRODUCT....I am always amazed that people think businesses pay taxes...what ever the tax is passed on to the consumer in the form of a higher price...
You may think there is no taxes on food...well poor people are charged for the bag..and pay the higher food price...The corn we are now putting into our gas tank is driving up the price of animal food with is driving up the cost of meat...The gas prices (and our huge gas tax) drive up the cost of Food which is all shipped on trucks..
ALL TAXES ARE EVENTUALLY PAID BY THE CONSUMER...MOST TAXES END UP BEING PAID BY BOTH THE RICH AND THE POOR...
But when you do decide to buy....The bank you choose will have total control...
It is absolutely true that buyers have control, but some have more and some have less, depending on credit rating and many other factors. Almost all borrowers have much more power than they think.
- Buy a decent used car, not a beater
- Get a roommate
- Pay all bills on time
- Be vegetarian (cheaper, healthier)
- Buy from Goodwill and craigslist
- Prepaid phone calls are only 4 cents/min from MCI--cheap (and email's free at the library)
- Buy on credit only in an emergency
Agreed. All one has to do is pay attention in public school and crack some books thereafter. I don't have much sympathy for people just scraping by.
They can stop eating meat at any time; that's a want, not a need. The bag is $1 and lasts for a year or more. You implied that taxes are higher in WA. On grocery store food they are zero. High gas prices affect food prices across the nation. Perhaps higher gas taxes in WA than in other states makes food higher priced here, but I doubt it's a significant difference.
Sure, but taxes are still low for middle-income earners in WA, relative to other states. No way does Idaho's 6% income tax and 5% sales tax work out to less tax.
When I sold my house I had no issue with paying the 2% excise tax, as I feel that my taxes here in WA are already low compared to most any other state. Not only do I not pay a state income tax, even my property taxes were half or less what I would pay in some other states.
First a note on that statement. I think of it like the "carbon dioxide causes global warming" thing. That is, I agree with you except I think the normal condition is the converse. Just as warming causes increased CO2 (and not the reverse), bad decisions are what universally cause poverty (health events and other tragedies notwithstanding).
But I agree with your whole post. My wife and I have discovered that the cheapest place to get stuff is garage sales, second is Craigslist, and third is eBay and other internet sites.
About the only thing we buy from stores nowadays is food and clothing, and even the latter is coming from used sources more and more. And we are living on a six digit income!
It is a stewardship thing.
Careful, you're mixing metaphors. Again.
My opinion, is that many people simply do not know how to get out of poverty. It used to be, that you got out of school (HS usually) and found an entry level job. Your first day, a manager came around and said, "Sure you're sweeping floors now, but if you work hard you could be running a night crew in 5 years and a middle manager in 15. It was straight forward, you had mentors in place, and all you had to do was "follow the rules."
Things are quite different now. Which means if you figure things out, you can get 6 figures shortly out of college, but if you don't there's typically no one there to mentor you.
My problem with a lot of this is that I have known LOTS of people that are poor but had ample opportunity. They were just sidetracked by chicks, booze, drugs, video games - Heck, you name it. It was all about making bad decisions and personal responsibility. And here they are living in a single wide in Algona driving one of the last barely surviving Chevy Vegas...
I might point out that this is where I was headed until the Lord intervened, literally. He changed my life.
The Lord is directing traffic somewhere on the road between Seattle and Algona.