Presidential Election Political Smackdown FFA

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  • In another non-Presidential polling oddity, Ted Stevens is still in a statistical draw with his Democrat opponent, even after being indicted. Great state, that Alaska... ;)
  • So Rose cutting through the BS....You can't think of a single Accomplishment of OBAMA......neither can I.....Why would I or anyone with even a little common sense want to make the guy the President of the most powerfull country in the World....

    Well, I figured tarzanchuck's link was sufficient.
    Here's a good list of legislation that he introduced and also co-sponsored while in the US Senate:

    http://my.barackobama.com/page/communit ... The/gG5tCk

    I'll resist a similarly insulting response, but please take me on my word that I think experience is overrated and I'd rather see someone who I think holds the proper policy be president than rather than someone who has the proper record of being tortured.

    Experience just doesn't matter that much. Look at 2005, George W. Bush had 5 years executive experience (several of them as commander in chief of a military at wars) as president but couldn't get aid to the Katrina Victims in any reasonable time frame. Prior to being president he was governor of the second largest state in both population and size. His father was president, so he has excellent resources at his disposal and certainly went into office with a better idea than probably any other presidential candidate in the last 100 years. Despite all that, he was unable to properly respond to exactly the type of situation that Obama, McCain, Biden, and even Palin haven't faced (I know, Alaska had a wild-fire scenario once when she was in office...wow!).
  • jon wrote:
    [I agree that comparative advantage is extremely important. That's why the fiasco earlier this year was so informative when Obama had to send a back door message to Canada to let them know his NAFTA bashing was a bunch of campaign BS.

    I thought that was Hillary who did that, not Obama. That Hillary called Obama out on it, but it was her camp who actually said that about herself.
  • uwp wrote:
    I'm dead serious when I say two other politicians ran on Hope and Change and I wouldn't have voted for them either. They also ran on class warfare, and one was racially based. They are Lennin and Hitler.

    This is why we can't have nice things. If anyone thinks this kind of attitude is seriously worth being debated is deluding themselves.

    Remember how pissed off republicans got over comparisons of the Bush admin and comparing them to the Nazis and the pre-emptive strike to Hitler's pre-emptive strike against Poland? Yet another great double standard.

    Go back to high school please and stop making stupid comparisons.
  • You're right of course. I just always feel that if I can convince just one person to hold a slightly more nuanced view of the world that it might make a difference.
    What? Screw nuance! The other side is pure, unfiltered evil, and I won't rest until the whole internet knows it.

    Nuance has no place in politics. The fact that you would suggest such a ridiculous notion makes it clear that you hate freedom and democracy.
  • jon wrote:
    1) Sign laws.
    2) Assign Justices.
    3) Serve as chief diplomat.
    4) Declare war.
    5) Figurative role to rally the spirit of the American people.
    6) Budget and administer $2.7 trillion in annual expenditures
    7) Commander in Chief for 2.4 million soldiers in active and reserve military.
    8 ) De facto leader of the free world responsible for protecting the freedom of Americans by spreading democracy throughout the world.

    WRT to #2, many of the more significant things that happen in the Executive branch are not done by the president, but by his chosen cabinet members and other appointments (FBI, CIA, DHS, etc). This can have a HUGE impact. Look at the ramifications of W sticking with Rumsfeld even after it was clear he had burned too many bridges, or the dysfunction in the FBI during Louis Freeh's tenure, etc. Since these appointments usually aren't made until after the election is decided, it's hard to know who will end up filling them.


    Also, I believe the president nominates justices and the senate approves them, at least for federal courts. The only way a president can avoid the confirmation is with a recess appointment. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • uwpuwp
    edited September 2008
    Robroy wrote:
    if you think my argument is so sound that it cannot be debated against, I guess I appreciate the compliment. Thank you.

    Yeah. I'm in awe of your logical prowess.

    This thread was enjoyable to come to 5 days late because of your repetition of how "fantastic" the Palin pick was even as the walls came tumbling around her. How can anyone think this pick isn't pure politics? McCain met her once before he offered her the job. She said in an interview a month ago that someone would have to explain to her what the vice president does. The GOP are touting her foreign policy experience as her close proximity to Russia.

    Your continued inference that we know nothing about Obama and that he has zero experience is absolutely hollow. Obama has been running for president for almost 20 months now. The media went through everything it could. Someone earlier said that Obama gave the speech on Race relations and it ended the Pastor flap so gosh darn quickly, but the Wright ordeal went on non-stop for over a month; Palin has been in the spotlight for a week. You had fun copying and pasting links about Palin but obviously refuse to read anything that doesn't fit your world view about Obama. A simple wiki is probably enough. Some simple big ones I might start with are the Lugar-Obama initiative as well as the Coburn–Obama Transparency Act which led to USAspending.gov.

    BTW tarzanchuck, it was Hillary, not Obama.
  • BTW tarzanchuck, it was Hillary, not Obama.

    That link didn't work for me. This is what I recall:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/us/po ... html?fta=y

    Update: OK, I removed the extra "url" and read that link. It seems to be a unamed source claiming that some else said that someone from the Clinton campaign called on the phone to say it was her campaign. BS.
  • The Tim wrote:
    What? Screw nuance! The other side is pure, unfiltered evil, and I won't rest until the whole internet knows it.

    Nuance has no place in politics. The fact that you would suggest such a ridiculous notion makes it clear that you hate freedom and democracy.

    Au contrair, that you suggest I hate freedom and democracy proves only that you are a communist sissy (the lowest form of sissy) and a neanderthal.

    FWIW, I actually find it hilarious that we have somehow reduced literally hundreds of complex and interacting values into two sides. Really? Two sides?
  • Yes. Two side. The thing you are misunderstanding is that you did not choose a side. The side chose you. In a plurality voting system, game theory predicts two dominant political parties. Both parties adjust their platform to cover the maximum amount of people.
  • I was wondering when we'd hear the other side of the trooper story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/ ... index.html

    There's always two sides to every story.
  • I was wondering when we'd hear the other side of the trooper story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/ ... index.html

    There's always two sides to every story.

    Read that, and unfortunately it's starting to sound very much like a "he said/she said" kind of story. Which is what I expected, but it also makes it unlikely we'll get proper revelations prior to the election.

    Palin does seem to have a history of abuse of power however. I am starting to feel that she is the most frightening candidate in this particular horse race by several body lengths. (Hehehe just to counter Robroy's irrational fear of Obama).
  • Look at 2005, George W. Bush had 5 years executive experience (several of them as commander in chief of a military at wars) as president but couldn't get aid to the Katrina Victims in any reasonable time frame

    Sorry, but I'll call BS on that what having lived in New Orleans, oh, I dunno, for 20 years. The place always has been been a friggin war zone. Can you say murder capital of the nation? Kind of difficult to deliver help when you are GETTING SHOT AT. I have a friend who is an Internal Auditor who is responsible for auditing Louisiana's Road Home program. There is so much waste and fraud it isn't even funny. Most Louisianaians feel that the feds did the best they could. It was the STATE and LOCAL (Democrat controlled, BTW) governments that fell flat on their face.
  • I was wondering when we'd hear the other side of the trooper story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/ ... index.html

    There's always two sides to every story.

    Read that, and unfortunately it's starting to sound very much like a "he said/she said" kind of story. Which is what I expected, but it also makes it unlikely we'll get proper revelations prior to the election.

    Palin does seem to have a history of abuse of power however. I am starting to feel that she is the most frightening candidate in this particular horse race by several body lengths. (Hehehe just to counter Robroy's irrational fear of Obama).

    That's kind of what I thought too. The thing that gives me pause is, why are they trying to dismiss and/or delay this? i mean, she herself said to please keep me accountable. Now she seems to be going back on that.

    My guess is, which is usually the case in things like this, is that he's not being fully honest, but she isn't either. I have a hard time believing that she wasn't behind the calls from her staffer. She used him as a buffer, but she and her husband had complained pretty vocally prior to that.

    And remember that her husband actually called Monaghan into HER office to talk with him about it again. That seems to be sending a pretty clear message I think.
  • Robroy wrote:
    My wife and I saw Palin's speech on the internet. We both, separately and at the exact same time identified the moment when Palin cinched the presidency for McCain. It was whin Piper licked her hand and "fixed" her little brother's hair.

    Dead serious here. :|
    Robroy wrote:
    My comment came from what I know about how women, even women at hillaryclintonforum.com, think/feel.

    Have you ever stopped and thought about how inane some of your comments are? You've made an absolute prediction that McCain/Palin will win, hands down, now apparently because Palin's kid did something cute on TV? I won't even get into how demeaning that is of women's intelligence.
    Robroy wrote:
    Not interested in polls. I used to say that but had a hard time living it. But no longer. I stopped taking polls seriously during the 2000 election, but I NEVER took internet polls seriously. I'm interested in who wins.

    Internet polls are crap, and nobody uses them for anything other than entertainment. That much is true. But polls are fairly accurate tools as long as they're done right, and used within their predictive limitation. The problem is when, as in 2000, dumbass news anchors take an exit poll of 1000 people (±3%) that shows a 1% margin and makes a prediction on it. When a 3% poll shows 49% to 48%, you absolutely can not use it. TV/radio talking heads still do because they're paid to talk, not analyze.

    Some of the current polls are showing some bizarre things - statistical ties in Indiana (which W carried by ~20% in 2004) and North Dakota (W carried by more than 25%). This doesn't really mean anything now since the polling was done between conventions, and McCain/Palin will most likely still win both states in November. But if you are disregarding this information entirely, you may be in for a terrible surprise down the road.

    Billy....ROB IS RIGHT....The little girl learned that from watching her mother do it...It showed how down to earth and just like regular people Sarah Palin is ....May heartless liberals will never understand but I am sure you can.
  • So Rose cutting through the BS....You can't think of a single Accomplishment of OBAMA......neither can I.....Why would I or anyone with even a little common sense want to make the guy the President of the most powerfull country in the World....

    Well, I figured tarzanchuck's link was sufficient.
    Here's a good list of legislation that he introduced and also co-sponsored while in the US Senate:

    http://my.barackobama.com/page/communit ... The/gG5tCk

    I'll resist a similarly insulting response, but please take me on my word that I think experience is overrated and I'd rather see someone who I think holds the proper policy be president than rather than someone who has the proper record of being tortured.

    Experience just doesn't matter that much. Look at 2005, George W. Bush had 5 years executive experience (several of them as commander in chief of a military at wars) as president but couldn't get aid to the Katrina Victims in any reasonable time frame. Prior to being president he was governor of the second largest state in both population and size. His father was president, so he has excellent resources at his disposal and certainly went into office with a better idea than probably any other presidential candidate in the last 100 years. Despite all that, he was unable to properly respond to exactly the type of situation that Obama, McCain, Biden, and even Palin haven't faced (I know, Alaska had a wild-fire scenario once when she was in office...wow!).

    Tanzen chick....He co-sponsored 60 bills in the US Senate ...They were so far out left that not a single one was adopted...

    ROSE...Experience.... Coupled with accomplishment is the indicator that means something....OBAMA has no experience and even less Accomplishment and NO EVIDENCE OF LEADERSHIP ABILITY...He has horrible judgement to boot (Dumping Hillary is one example, calling Canada to say he really didn't mean what he said about our trade agreement in the debate is another..Biden is a thirdand there are many more examples ....the Man is a good talker and it takes far more then that to be the leader of the most powerful nation on earth...
  • I went on record, weeks before the Palin Pick (which sealed this thing) that Obama would lose big time because he cannot speak without a teleprompter.

    Well his "my muslim faith" gaff is exactly what I was talking about. There WILL be more.

    Much more.

    My wife and I were at an investment seminar all weekend and intentionally avoiding news. We are in stitches now as we read story after story about Palin and Obama.

    "It's a great day at sea sir!"

    http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/P ... /13078.htm

    http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/bell ... ough-spot/
  • HAHAHAHA!

    Did I already mention it just gets better and better?!


    When NewsBusters posted the screencap shown here as its Weekend Captionfest on Friday, the result was an outpouring of affectionate reader responses. Typical was this one, from "iveseenitall":

    "The ladies in my house instantly fell for this kid. "Oh" and "Oooh" and "Ah". The giggles, the pointing at the t.v. Love all around that night."

    The MSM lives in a different house. Check out this candid admission from New York Times media reporter David Carr in his article in today's NYT [emphasis added]:


    I've said it before. I have NEVER had this much fun during an election! :mrgreen:

    "In the press galleries at the convention, journalists wrinkled their noses in disgust when Piper, Ms. Palin's youngest daughter, was filmed kitty-licking her baby brother's hair into place."
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2077051/posts

    Folks, the MSM has not a clue that they are committing professional suicide, one drop of blood at a time, before our very eyes. :wink:
  • I was wondering when we'd hear the other side of the trooper story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/ ... index.html

    There's always two sides to every story.
    Yep.

    Until you get all the facts. Then there is only one side. :wink:
  • edited September 2008
    I was wondering when we'd hear the other side of the trooper story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/ ... index.html

    There's always two sides to every story.

    Read that, and unfortunately it's starting to sound very much like a "he said/she said" kind of story. Which is what I expected, but it also makes it unlikely we'll get proper revelations prior to the election.

    Palin does seem to have a history of abuse of power however. I am starting to feel that she is the most frightening candidate in this particular horse race by several body lengths. (Hehehe just to counter Robroy's irrational fear of Obama).
    Irrational? Nope. As a student of history, my fear would only be if he get's elected. I don't expect that to happen short of a Reichstag fire type of event.

    As a Christian I consider fear to be the absence of faith and faith to be the absence of fear.

    My wife caught one headline tonight that caused both of us to laugh though. It said Palin's first year as mayor was "turbulent". I mean, any newly elected executive who bucks the insider "status quo" is gonna have a "turbulent" first year. In fact, if they are not strong, they will not survive.

    Just sayin'. :wink:
  • edited September 2008

    Have you ever stopped and thought about how inane some of your comments are? You've made an absolute prediction that McCain/Palin will win, hands down, now apparently because Palin's kid did something cute on TV? I won't even get into how demeaning that is of women's intelligence.
    Heh, heh...
    Two things...

    First, that "kitten licking" thing was just the icing on the cake.

    Second. I have a wife, two sisters, a mother, mother-in-law, three sisters-in-law, four adult daughters and two female grandchildren. My daughters had pajama parties in my house until it was downright embarrassing how many partially clad 17 year old girls I had running around this place.

    Over half the people I work with are women and I am more popular with them than my wife, frankly, is comfortable with (but I am as devoted to her as a man could be to any woman).

    I also teach. I have learned to ask men "what they think" about an issue and women "how they feel" about an issue. It works in spades. Both are ways of thinking and both trump the other under certain conditions. I have learned to respect women's intuition over men's, and trust men's logic over women's.

    Men and women are different. You can interpret that any way you wish. Bottom line is that women responded OVERWHELMINGLY favorably to Piper's gesture and get seriously offended when you think it is demeaning to say so.

    Most of the women who WERE offended probably hang out at the Wild Rose way too much. :wink:
  • The Tim wrote:
    You're right of course. I just always feel that if I can convince just one person to hold a slightly more nuanced view of the world that it might make a difference.
    What? Screw nuance! The other side is pure, unfiltered evil, and I won't rest until the whole internet knows it.

    Nuance has no place in politics. The fact that you would suggest such a ridiculous notion makes it clear that you hate freedom and democracy.

    All sarcasm aside, there really are times when Nuance is not acceptable. I will not mention names but there was at least one politician shortly before the middle of the last century who was very popular even among many Americans (Lindbergh comes to mind) as a true reformer before his true colors came to expose him for the almost unthinkable evil he represented.

    A lot of people just do not understand or believe that it could happen here. It really could, and that is why we must be on our guard and really parse the words of our would-be leaders. It matters.
  • You just can't make this stuff up! :mrgreen:

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 914AA5iybM

    Holy cow this is a fun election! :lol:

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisne ... R0110.html

    You all realize, of course, just how unelectable this guy is? Swiftboating Kerry was a serious challenge compared to this poser. The MSM gave him a free pass and now the democratic party is stuck with him. The MSM simply can no longer compete with the free exchange of ideas offered by the internet. Dan Rather learned the hard way.

    The internet is much more powerful today. The truth becomes downright conspicuous.

    And I do mean TRUTH. Yes, it does actually exist. It is not a "relative" thing.

    As Obama FINALLY gets vetted, there are gonna be a LOT of "news" days, whether the MSM likes it or not. Maybe instead of a Reichstag fire, he's gonna need an "internet fire".
  • Robroy wrote:
    I also teach. I have learned to ask men "what they think" about an issue and women "how they feel" about an issue. It works in spades. Both are ways of thinking and both trump the other under certain conditions. I have learned to respect women's intuition over men's, and trust men's logic over women's.

    Sometimes Robroy, your statements seem completely removed from reality. Disregarding how derogatory it is to say man's logic trumps woman's; there's no evidence that such a thing as woman's intuition exists, or that men are inherently more logical. There is evidence that women may develop stronger interpersonal skills, but a lot of that might actually just be different and easier skills than what men tend to develop.
    Billy....ROB IS RIGHT....The little girl learned that from watching her mother do it...It showed how down to earth and just like regular people Sarah Palin is ....May heartless liberals will never understand but I am sure you can.

    No Mike, nobody understands. Perhaps if you used complete thoughts it might be easier to at least understand where your coming from.
    Robroy wrote:
    A lot of people just do not understand or believe that it could happen here. It really could, and that is why we must be on our guard and really parse the words of our would-be leaders. It matters.

    Then why do you focus so intently on misspoken statements? You're not interested at all in parsing the meaning behind any words. You'll deny this, but it's a fact. How many links have you posted just to try to connect Obama to Islam? As though it even mattered if he were a muslim, or hindu, or atheist, or budist. America is, thankfully, a secularist government. The only reason a leader's religion matters is because most Americans are such fools that they won't elect someone who doesn't profess to be a christian.

    OK, I'm going to stand aside now while you "educate me" about how only a specific set of morals are appropriate for our leaders and how only a christian can hold such morals.
  • "He has horrible judgement to boot (Dumping Hillary is one example, calling Canada to say he really didn't mean what he said about our trade agreement in the debate is another..Biden is a thirdand there are many more examples"

    1) dumping Hillary was the right move. She carries way too much baggage with the right. Righties wanted her on the ticket SOOO BAD because conservatives hate her.
    2) we already covered the Canada thing. It was Hillary that said that.
    3) Joe Biden was a great choice. Why exactly is he a poor choice as a running mate do you think? He kicks Palin's ass any day of the week.
  • "My wife caught one headline tonight that caused both of us to laugh though. It said Palin's first year as mayor was "turbulent". I mean, any newly elected executive who bucks the insider "status quo" is gonna have a "turbulent" first year. In fact, if they are not strong, they will not survive."

    Um, it was turbulent because she 1) fired the chief of police for not supporting her politically. She put this in writing.
    then 2) she was almost recalled because she tried to fire the head of the library. The reason she tried to fire the head of the library is because she wanted to BAN BOOKS. The librarian said, "HELL NO!!" and she got fired. It was the people of the city who got pissed about that and which is why she had trouble as mayor.

    She was mayor long before any of her "fighting corruption" stuff happened. She was too busy burning books to fight corruption.
  • Robroy wrote:
    [
    All sarcasm aside, there really are times when Nuance is not acceptable. I will not mention names but there was at least one politician shortly before the middle of the last century who was very popular even among many Americans (Lindbergh comes to mind) as a true reformer before his true colors came to expose him for the almost unthinkable evil he represented.

    A lot of people just do not understand or believe that it could happen here. It really could, and that is why we must be on our guard and really parse the words of our would-be leaders. It matters.

    Again with the Hitler references. If you remember, the Bush family made alot of money from the Nazis. The Nazis also pre-emptively invaded soveriegn countries. They also took away civil liberties and put people in jail with out actually charging them with crimes and not allowing them to have fair trials. If you want to go down this road we can.

    The Nazis also did alot of book burning. There seems to be a certain vice-presidential candidate who is in favor of doing that as well.......

  • Sometimes Robroy, your statements seem completely removed from reality. Disregarding how derogatory it is to say man's logic trumps woman's; there's no evidence that such a thing as woman's intuition exists, or that men are inherently more logical. There is evidence that women may develop stronger interpersonal skills, but a lot of that might actually just be different and easier skills than what men tend to develop.
    Sorry, RCC. You can say that all you want. I know what works. It is that simple. I am not removed from reality. I am living it. And with all due respect, your saying otherwise does not make it so.

    I have a DECADES long track record with this. I know what I am talking about. Success is it's own proof/reward.
  • Billy....ROB IS RIGHT....The little girl learned that from watching her mother do it...It showed how down to earth and just like regular people Sarah Palin is ....May heartless liberals will never understand but I am sure you can.

    No Mike, nobody understands. Perhaps if you used complete thoughts it might be easier to at least understand where your coming from.
    RCC you did prove he was wrong, unless he was being sarcastic when he said you can understand. If you ARE one of those liberals, then you are merely a case study in what he is talking about. Trust me, most of the people I know very much understand.
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