interesting article on tax rates.

edited November 2008 in The Economy
This is something I've thought about, but never really done any research on.

The times when we had the most growth and prosperity across the board in our country was when tax rates were higher. During the 50's and then during Clinton. I think this is an interesting read.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/10697 ... age=entire

Comments

  • The 1950's was a period when America had emerged a very strong nation after a world war had ravaged the rest of the world and coming off almost 30 years of heavy investment in our infrastructure. The economy prospered despite high taxes, not to mention a lack of competition in many industries that we now are fighting to stay afloat in.
  • I've been trying to digest this for a couple days. Some of it is intuitive; much of it is not.
  • It's an interesting read and an interesting theory for sure.
  • k2000k wrote:
    The 1950's was a period when America had emerged a very strong nation after a world war had ravaged the rest of the world and coming off almost 30 years of heavy investment in our infrastructure. The economy prospered despite high taxes, not to mention a lack of competition in many industries that we now are fighting to stay afloat in.

    Here's the thing about that though, is that you say it prospered in spite of all of these things that economists tell us are always bad for the economy. That really doesn't make sense. It was the high taxes that allowed us to invest into our infrastructure for so long, which then helped with prosperity of the whole country. Conservative economics tells us that high taxes and lack of competition make the economy suck. And therefore it should've. I have a hard time believing that our economy would've been EVEN BETTER had we not had those things in place.

    What about us doing better economically during Clinton, post Reagan? Granted, Clinton carried on a lot of Reagan-era economic policies, but he did raise taxes and he balanced the budget and we had a very good economy. Then when we had banking deregulation and taxes lowered, we had bubble and crash, with no infrastructure improvements to show for it.
  • The most interesting assertion from the article seems to be that very high taxes for the rich encourages reinvestment as opposed to destroying a corporation to pull out all the money now. Perhaps that's especially true if you remember when taxes were higher.

    It sounds very counter intuitive, but perhaps fiscal conservatives are nearly as wrong as social conservatives... You can definitely argue the massive tax breaks on capital gains have not help matters. I'm going to need to think on this a little more.
  • And that's the most interesting thing about his theory is that he's not necessarily saying that raising taxes and giving more money to the government is what is good. It's that the higher taxes make businesses work differently. That it forces them to not take profits, but to reinvest that money to make their businesses stronger and better.

    That is of course one of the main problems with our banking collapse right now is that financial institutions traded good long term stability for short term high risk gains. Is this a way to force execs to run a business in such a way to where the long term steady growth and value of the company is paramount to short term bonuses and gains?

    I've been thinking on this for the last couple of days. It's a very interesting idea.
  • Something I've often mentioned in regards to the GM/F/C debacle is that in the 80s, there was a corporate culture shift away from long term viability into maximizing quarterly profits*. In the early 80s, they routinely kept 1-2 years of operating revenue as cash on hand. That shifted into using that cash to buy high risk/high reward assets, other companies, etc. I can't help but think that a part of this was the significant decrease in tax rates during the 80s.



    * This was largely true of all corporations in the last 25 years.
  • That's something I'd never heard before Billy. Very interesting.

    I know individual savings are also way down from where they were since 1980. Can't remember the source offhand, but personal savings for individuals in 1980 was around 10% annually. Now, on average people save -.5% of what they earn.
  • That's something I'd never heard before Billy. Very interesting.

    I know individual savings are also way down from where they were since 1980. Can't remember the source offhand, but personal savings for individuals in 1980 was around 10% annually. Now, on average people save -.5% of what they earn.

    Becaus everyone must have the lastest gee-whiz gizmo and 60" Plasma TV, and $40K upgrade package(granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, jumbo washer/dryer), etc... Back in 1980 people lived frugally and more happy.
  • I'm pretty happy with my 46" LCD TV. :D But then, it was the first TV I've bought in 10+ years and I could easily afford to pay cash for it. It's also one of the few "gadgets" I've bought. Nice for watching movies or playing XBox. But it was a treat for myself, not an expectation.
  • Back in 1980 people lived frugally and more happy.

    81_physical_98.jpg

    Sometimes, we like to exaggerate how wonderful another era was in comparison to our own times.
  • She's happy, and you could piece that outfit together for $10, tops. ;)
  • Seriously. You think Olivia Neutron Bomb wasn't a happy woman?
  • I was just looking for a picture of the clothes. Sure people were happy in the 80s. And they were happy during the great depression, and during the middle ages and during the stone age.
  • I dunno. I never see pictures of happy people during the great depression. But, they did all own suits and hats.
  • @ Charles Dean. I agree with you in the investment on infrastructure that allowed the US to have high taxes and still have growth, that is why I say despite the fact of high taxes. However, I still think it is very relevant to consider that fact that the US was also coming off one of the worst depressions we had ever experienced during the 30's and a war time economy during much of the 40's. How could the US not experience a period of fantastic growth with the reintroduction of millions of consumers that did not exits, or could not be served, for about two decades. Considering where the US is now I do not necessarily agree that higher taxes will lead to the same growth. Economics 101, a raise in taxes lowers GDP. However, if those funds are used wisely by the goverment GDP could grow because of goverment spending. Howevre, you could also cut taxes to raise GDP, provided that there is an actual increase in consumption or businesses use it to reinvest in their business. Whether or not taxes will be raised, probably will be, the US needs to invest in infrastructure, one of the few policies of the president-elect I wholeheartedly support. However I think we should keep in mind that the US already has one of the highest corporate taxes in the developed world, and I believe that it plays some part in the fervor to which US industries exported jobs.
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