Separately, an internal Airbus report on the beleaguered Boeing jet program, published Wednesday on a blog operated by trade magazine Flight International, suggests the new plane is overweight and won't fly as far as advertised.
This comes just after an internal Boeing report posted to Myspace called Airbus executives fat and ugly and suggested that they would "never get laid".
The only silver lining for Boeing, Hamilton said, is that the collapse of the economy and the credit squeeze "removes the urgency to get the airplane in service."
We can't produce planes worth crap, but it's all cool because nobody can afford them anyways.
The only silver lining for Boeing, Hamilton said, is that the collapse of the economy and the credit squeeze "removes the urgency to get the airplane in service."
We can't produce planes worth crap, but it's all cool because nobody can afford them anyways.
It's pretty obvious that some Boeing jobs in the area will vanish, either through reassignment to the defense segment, or outright layoffs.
Locally, SPEEA and Boeing worked out a three tier system for layoffs. The entire represented workforce is measured as the bottom 40%, middle 40%, and the upper 20%. They focus on the lower 40% first.
Boeing has hired like crazy over the past two years since I've moved here from St. Louis. Defense will probably absorb some of the losses but it also means fewer jobs localls since defense isn't a big employer here.
The good news is St. Louis real estate is cheap. $200k for a cavernous two story home and a two car garage. The bad news is ... it's St. Louis, and either relocating jobs or layoffs are bad for our local economy.
I think it's 40/40/20 upper/middle/bottom, not 20/40/40.
I'm pretty sure there won't be a lot of hiring be either Boeing or Microsoft this year, so both should see 2-5% decreases in staff just through retirements and departures. Attrition reduction, basically.
The Seattle Times is reporting 4,000 - 4,500 people will be laid off in Boeing Commercial. Boeing employs about 76,000 people in the Puget Sound area, so this is between 5% and 6% of their local work force. It's also about as many jobs as the failure of WaMu has already shed.
FWIW, I doubt this will be the final round of layoffs from Boeing this year.
I'm pretty sure there won't be a lot of hiring be either Boeing or Microsoft this year, so both should see 2-5% decreases in staff just through retirements and departures. Attrition reduction, basically.
I'm sure that's what their thinking, but with nobody else hiring, no one will be quitting. With the stock market and home values in the crapper, nobody will be retiring.
Many departments in Boeing have had a hiring/OT freeze on over the last couple of years and have been trying to milk the attrition reduction already. At this point, they have to impose layoffs just to get the same sort of attrition they were getting before with retirements.
WE BOUGHT IT. Now, can we afford it? The biggest public-private partnership in modern state historythe taxpayers' contribution to help Boeing staff, build, operate, and profit from its new 7E7 final-assembly plant in Everettwill cost the public $3.2 billion to save 800 jobs. That's $4 million per worker.
But what he's talking about are tax cuts as opposed to the government actually handing Boeing that money. Sure, it's disappointing to even be in that situation, but you're still better off taxing those 800 employees spending than you are paying for their unemployment benefits.
...still better off taxing those 800 employees spending than you are paying for their unemployment benefits.
Still sounds like a raw deal. How long will those 800 workers have to work to just cover the $3.2 billion with money paid in taxes to the state? If the state gets $10,000 a year from each it'll take 400 years. Talk about a long term investment. By then they'll be Boeing Telporter Co. and they'll still have trouble with the logistics of teleporting in portions of teleporters made on Titan.
Expect 20K layoffs from Boeing and 20-30K from Microsoft, with cascading effects of another 100K layoffs in the rest of the Seattle metro area in the next 18 months.
Expect 20K layoffs from Boeing and 20-30K from Microsoft, with cascading effects of another 100K layoffs in the rest of the Seattle metro area in the next 18 months.
Based on...?
Boeing will almost certainly announce more layoffs this year, and Microsoft probably will as well, but why should we trust your number?
With a name like FreedomLover how can you not trust these numbers. I heard a rumor microsoft is gonna replace 50% of their employees with playstation 3s. Coincidentally, I also heard a rumor Boeing was gonna downsize their production lines to model airplanes with odorless glue.
Also forgot to mention another juicy rumor. In order to lower costs, I heard that Starbucks is having discussions with local sewage plants regarding recycling of coffee. Heard they plan to market the drink as the doodoocinno.
A Boeing machinist, and friend, called me on Monday to say he is hearing that Boeing plans to cut far more than 4,500 jobs in the coming weeks.
...
Boeing last week had announced it would cut about 4,500 jobs from its commercial payroll this year. Boeing said those would not be production-related positions because it has a record backlog of jets to continue building for customers.
My machinist friend, however, was hearing something else. He said reliable people at Boeing told him the announced job losses were just the tip of the iceberg and that Boeing was planning to cut its 737 and 777 work force by as much as 30 percent this year as production rates are drastically cut because airlines will defer delivery of hundreds of planes.
"It's going to be 1971 all over again,'' my machinists friend told me. Those were the dark days of the historic "Boeing Bust,'' when a billboard went up asking the last person leaving Seattle to turn out the lights.
I don't think so.
...
After cutting production and more than 30,000 jobs following the 9-11 attacks and industry downturn in 2001, Boeing executives have made it clear since then that they are going to avoid the huge, costly employment swings that have accompanied past industry cycles.
Interestingly, that's the same kind of talk we heard when I worked at Genie (construction equip. manufacturer in Redmond), and yet they have already been through two rounds of layoffs since last summer. [Note: I left amicably of my own volition in Jan. '08 before the depth of the downturn became apparent.]
What nobody is willing to accept is that this depression will be the mother of all depressions. With a credit bubble inflated to $20 trillion, it will take 10-15 years to unwind. In the meantime, expect 70-80% unemployment as cascading interlock effects take place.
Interestingly, that's the same kind of talk we heard when I worked at Genie (construction equip. manufacturer in Redmond), and yet they have already been through two rounds of layoffs since last summer.
A lot of Boeing's orders are "safe". Some aren't. I don't think we'll see radical cuts by Boeing in the production department this year.
The riskier area is probably the white collar staff when (or if :roll: ) the 787 and 747-8 are finished. Depending on the outcome of various development programs and government contracts, they may be without a sufficiently large program to keep the thousands of people hired for the 787.
What nobody is willing to accept is that this depression will be the mother of all depressions. With a credit bubble inflated to $20 trillion, it will take 10-15 years to unwind. In the meantime, expect 70-80% unemployment as cascading interlock effects take place.
Nobody is willing to accept it because it's ludicrous. We'll have a revolt before we hit 50% unemployment, and if we have 70% unemployment, I'm spending the last of my savings on some body armor and a few good firearms. I won't need a job, just a gun and all those lessons on gutting deer and fish.
What nobody is willing to accept is that this depression will be the mother of all depressions. With a credit bubble inflated to $20 trillion, it will take 10-15 years to unwind. In the meantime, expect 70-80% unemployment as cascading interlock effects take place.
You do know that your scenario would essentially halt international trade. Just due to food shortages, this would kill perhaps 2 billion people (the inevitable wars would only exacerbate the death toll).
Let me do the math here...US GDP=$14T...which will be 90% destroyed...for 15 years...
So, a $20T credit bubble will destroy $150T worth of wealth over the next generation. Maybe you could try to make up numbers that are at least realistic. Start with 20% unemployment, and see how you like that; cause what you're doing now is like getting up one morning and calling Kobe Bryant to offer him the opportunity of challenging you to a 1-on-1 basketball game.
It looks like Boeing is playing a game of one-upmanship with Microsoft. They just announced another 5500 job cuts, bringing the layoff total so far to 10,000.
Jan. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co. said it plans to cut 10,000 jobs, or about 6 percent of its workforce, after a strike, program delays and a global recession contributed to a fourth- quarter loss.
The job reductions, disclosed on a conference call today, include 4,500 that were previously announced in the commercial- plane half of Boeing's business.
Comments
This should give airlines plenty of time to cancel their orders.
Edit: I should note that this isn't official yet.
Double Edit: Check out this snippet: This comes just after an internal Boeing report posted to Myspace called Airbus executives fat and ugly and suggested that they would "never get laid".
Edit count++: We can't produce planes worth crap, but it's all cool because nobody can afford them anyways.
Locally, SPEEA and Boeing worked out a three tier system for layoffs. The entire represented workforce is measured as the bottom 40%, middle 40%, and the upper 20%. They focus on the lower 40% first.
Boeing has hired like crazy over the past two years since I've moved here from St. Louis. Defense will probably absorb some of the losses but it also means fewer jobs localls since defense isn't a big employer here.
The good news is St. Louis real estate is cheap. $200k for a cavernous two story home and a two car garage. The bad news is ... it's St. Louis, and either relocating jobs or layoffs are bad for our local economy.
I'm pretty sure there won't be a lot of hiring be either Boeing or Microsoft this year, so both should see 2-5% decreases in staff just through retirements and departures. Attrition reduction, basically.
The Seattle Times is reporting 4,000 - 4,500 people will be laid off in Boeing Commercial. Boeing employs about 76,000 people in the Puget Sound area, so this is between 5% and 6% of their local work force. It's also about as many jobs as the failure of WaMu has already shed.
FWIW, I doubt this will be the final round of layoffs from Boeing this year.
I'm sure that's what their thinking, but with nobody else hiring, no one will be quitting. With the stock market and home values in the crapper, nobody will be retiring.
Many departments in Boeing have had a hiring/OT freeze on over the last couple of years and have been trying to milk the attrition reduction already. At this point, they have to impose layoffs just to get the same sort of attrition they were getting before with retirements.
To be fair, that article is a bit sensationalist.
But what he's talking about are tax cuts as opposed to the government actually handing Boeing that money. Sure, it's disappointing to even be in that situation, but you're still better off taxing those 800 employees spending than you are paying for their unemployment benefits.
Based on...?
Boeing will almost certainly announce more layoffs this year, and Microsoft probably will as well, but why should we trust your number?
With a name like FreedomLover how can you not trust these numbers. I heard a rumor microsoft is gonna replace 50% of their employees with playstation 3s. Coincidentally, I also heard a rumor Boeing was gonna downsize their production lines to model airplanes with odorless glue.
Good point. My first pseudonym choice was FreedomHater, but then I realized I might lack credibility if I chose to hate on freedom. Sigh.
Are we going to be able to taste a difference from their usual sludge?
The riskier area is probably the white collar staff when (or if :roll: ) the 787 and 747-8 are finished. Depending on the outcome of various development programs and government contracts, they may be without a sufficiently large program to keep the thousands of people hired for the 787.
Nobody is willing to accept it because it's ludicrous. We'll have a revolt before we hit 50% unemployment, and if we have 70% unemployment, I'm spending the last of my savings on some body armor and a few good firearms. I won't need a job, just a gun and all those lessons on gutting deer and fish.
You do know that your scenario would essentially halt international trade. Just due to food shortages, this would kill perhaps 2 billion people (the inevitable wars would only exacerbate the death toll).
Let me do the math here...US GDP=$14T...which will be 90% destroyed...for 15 years...
So, a $20T credit bubble will destroy $150T worth of wealth over the next generation. Maybe you could try to make up numbers that are at least realistic. Start with 20% unemployment, and see how you like that; cause what you're doing now is like getting up one morning and calling Kobe Bryant to offer him the opportunity of challenging you to a 1-on-1 basketball game.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8iAOfphtXQU&refer=home
http://www.kirotv.com/money/18584690/detail.html
Get ready for a turbulent 09 around here, folks. And no, it's NOT a good time to buy.
Sure, but the "peak" in unemployment might come in 3 or 4 years.