Is the "pocket" theory of Seattle just a myth?

edited September 2007 in Seattle Real Estate
Hi all...I have followed the blog and forums for a while, and made my real estate choices based on things as best I knew.

The great thing is, most of my choices came out perfect, and I have prepared myself for the worst...but I would love some opinions on my choices.

I had owned a home in Ballard, and decided to cash out to pay off my loans, have a chunk of cash. I was going to go cash and wait, and rent. My wife had other opinions.

So we bought a home on Queen Anne where both her and I work. We cut all transportation costs, as well as having a MIL that supplies 12k/year.

My thinking was, I don't want things to go down, but if they do I have a bit of a buffer. :)

I came very close to selling my home a few months ago, just to get out of the way of the bubble, but continually heard that Queen Anne(downtown Seattle area) is a pocket that won't be hit by a bubble...or not as much etc...

I would love to hear opinions on this pocket theory. I don't love living in fear, and I need to live somewhere. Costs for renting are not far off for what I have, and I doon't get the deduction of mortgage interest.

Anyways, please share.

Comments

  • Mossejaw, it sounds like you have your finances under control, so I wouldn't sweat any price declines, especially if you're happy where you are. As to Queen Anne being special, it made me smile, as I am from a very special neighborhood in Los Angeles, Pacific Palisades, and poeple there (and in the surrounding areas) also cannot believe that price declines are possible. To the contrary, I think because these areas are so insulated from reality, and so convinced that everyone wants to live there, real estate continues on an upwards path even when all indications point to a broad decline, and this makes them even more vulnerable to large price declines. I have a good friend who lost 400K in the matter of months back in the 90's in the Palisades when he bought the house next door to his before he had sold his own house. Ask him if price declines are possible in desirable areas.
  • Good point.

    I don't want to get into a huge "limited space" "seattle is special" sort of thing...but there is something to be said for being so close to downdown, and locked in by water.

    L.A. is a sprawling wasteland. :)

    I hope those swings dont come hitting us too hard, but you never know. I was prepared for a 100k downturn, but also have the rental income.

    Thanks for story.
  • If you're happy and financially secure where you are, it's not worth the effort to sell, move, rent for a few years and then buy again. Especially if your payments aren't that much more than renting. A house is a place to live. If your house "loses value" on paper who cares if it still provides the shelter and lifestyle you bought it for.

    The people that should really consider switching to renting are those whose financial livelihood critically depend on rapid house appreciation in order to refinance or sell. Also, people that were planning on moving anyways might want to consider renting for bit to see where the market goes.
  • Pocket is possible and that is because price is contained by the neighborhood.

    For example Medina, some kind of plaque would have to break out in Seattle for the price to drop there. There's always people with money that want to move into that neighborhood, and supply is always lower than demand in highly sought after neighborhood. Unless of course they decided to demolish SFR and build condos, then that's another story.
  • Regarding Medina, that may often be the case but most definitely not always. Just for kicks I was looking at listings in Medina around 2000 and 2001. I saw homes bought for $7M a year or two earlier that ended up selling for $5M during that downturn. And were're talking seriously nice here, no dump. Rules don't always hold. I suspect we'll see the same thing durng the coming downturn.
  • Oh no, I am living with 5 million dollar neighbor instead of 7 million, SVP instead of CEO :(.
  • LA is, in fact, a sprawling wasteland. You don't even need a happy face to say so. Anywhere inland was "the hood" to me, a scary, smoggy malevalent place. But this is also why the nice areas here always appear to be so insulated from price declines. The Palisades is a lovely beach community, YET it will still get hammered in the coming years. Seattle, by contrast, has lots of nice neighborhoods. If it were not for my need to be near UW, my head would've spun with the number of quaint, cute places to live. Even with that constraint, I had much to choose from bewteen Ravenna, Montlake, Wallingford, Wedgwood, Meadowbrook, and Greenlake. I realize biases exist for those who are more familiar to the myriad neighborhoods of Seattle, but to me, Queen Anne is just another nice one amongst many nice ones.

    And to reiterate, it sounds like you're dong fine with your decision to stay put, Moosejaw.
  • If prices fall in Seattle proper, I doubt Queen Anne would be spared, especially the condos. That said, if I were in your situation with a comfortable mortgage and plenty of equity, I'd happily stay put.

    A house is a place to live, after all, and not an investment strategy. I'd also stop worrying about the possibility of losing some equity to bubble deflation, unless my family's income was dependent on the real estate market, or I didn't have enough liquid savings to weather 6-12 months of unemployment.
  • Thanks for the great replies...

    After reading all the doomsday predictions, I became pretty skeptical of this site...but like many still have concerns about the current state of housing prices and lending.

    I have to be disciplined in the choices I made or I would/could be in similar situations as alot of others. The great thing is I was prepared for my choices, but still wouldn't like to see a huge decline i housing prices...but would love to see a steady 3-6% increase in values in Seattle proper over the next 5-10 years.

    We will see.

    I think all the comments shared with me are very rational, and wish there were more similar voices of reason in other posts.


    Anyways, thanks again.

    -G
  • moosejaw wrote:
    Thanks for the great replies...

    After reading all the doomsday predictions, I became pretty skeptical of this site...but like many still have concerns about the current state of housing prices and lending.

    I have to be disciplined in the choices I made or I would/could be in similar situations as alot of others. The great thing is I was prepared for my choices, but still wouldn't like to see a huge decline i housing prices...but would love to see a steady 3-6% increase in values in Seattle proper over the next 5-10 years.

    We will see.

    I think all the comments shared with me are very rational, and wish there were more similar voices of reason in other posts.


    Anyways, thanks again.

    -G

    I think the voices are all there, it's just the question that differs. Do I think pockets exist? HA! Do I think the 'sticker value' of your house will decline? Yes of course.

    But that wasn't your question. Your question was should you sell. It's pretty clear from your post that you should not. You like where you live, it provides a quality lifestyle and you can afford that lifestyle. Why would you even consider selling?!?!?

    Now, if you said you had a 2 hour daily commute, and were putting 50% of your income into mortgage payments you would have gotten a radically different response. And guess what, a lot of people do fall into that second category.

    On the other hand, you might consider selling your rental property if it is not cash-flow positive. If it is just barely positive, you might do a little more research. It sounds like your fairly exposed to real-estate overall and getting out of that might reduce your risk. But if you are making money from rent payments, then keep doing that of course.
  • moosejaw wrote:
    would love to see a steady 3-6% increase in values in Seattle proper over the next 5-10 years.

    While we're writing letters to Santa, I personally would love to see 18-25% increase in share prices of the stocks and bonds I'm holding, too.

    :)
  • While we're writing letters to Santa, I personally would love to see 18-25% increase in share prices of the stocks and bonds I'm holding, too.

    Don't worry. Bernake Claus will be happy to keep lowering rates ensuring that stocks continue to climb at least 15-25% a year along with inflation.
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