Steve Tytler: 'I don't buy into the 'gloom and doom''

edited October 2007 in Seattle Real Estate
I think this may be the first mention of this blog in any of the local papers:
I don't buy into the "gloom and doom" scenarios being promoted by blogs such as seattlebubble.com, which has been predicting the imminent collapse of the local real estate market for a long time. While I give it credit for pointing out that many people in the Seattle media were overly optimistic about the Puget Sound real estate market during the boom, I think the bubble bloggers tend to be overly pessimistic.
As you may guess, he spends most of the article describing / touting his "stair step" theory, which you may recall from my previous email conversation with him. By the way, the "long time" he says we've spent predicting the "collapse of the local real estate market" is essentially just as long as he has been saying similar things:
...in late 2005, I wrote that the housing market was peaking, meaning that it would soon start cooling off. That was at a time when the news was full of stories about how hot the housing market was and how fast home prices were rising.

Few, if any, people at that time were thinking that the party would soon come to an end.
That was also the time that this blog was started...

I'll probably write up a post about his latest missive later this week.

Comments

  • Flat = 20% drop? Did flat = 20% drop in his columns last year and the year before?
  • Oh yeah, I meant to quote that part too. Seems like I don't recall him saying anything other than "flat" before. Now he's still saying flat, but also throwing in "maybe down 10-20% from the peak." Huh?
    If you look at home prices over the past 40 years, there is a very predictable cycle: Home prices increase rapidly for two or three years, are followed by a slight price drop and then stay flat for the next few years. If you looked at home prices on a graph, you would see a pattern that looks like a staircase: Up, flat, up, flat and so on.

    So what do I think will happen next year?

    I think we are now in the correction phase and the beginning of a flat market. Home prices may drop an average of 10 to 20 percent during the correction, but keep in mind I am talking about dropping from the very peak of housing boom prices.
  • Maybe FLAT is a typo for FIAT. As in, our fiat currency will lose 20% while prices remain flat. :D

    It's good to see that people on this board predicting price drops are doom and gloom, but predicting a 10%-20% drop is reasonable. Does Steve Tytler realize he is predicting drops in value (not price) of nearly 40%? A 20% drop followed by a few years (3-5?) of zero appreciation (15%-25% inflation) is a 40% correction.

    In other words, if 3 people on this site predict 60% drops, the whole board is filled with fools and can't be trusted. But we should trust Steve Tytler's 25%-45% decline prediction? Where do you even draw the line between a reasonably bearish opinion and a crazy fanatic's opinion?
    SHUT UP! Enough already, Ballstein! Who cares about Derek Zoolander anyway? The man has only one look, for Christ's sake! Blue Steel? Ferrari? Le Tigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anybody notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
  • I don't understand why you're giving this small town reporter a hard time. He's just your average word slinger stating the FACTS and nothing but the FACTS. He doesn't have any incentive to distort or spin anything. It's not like he runs his own mortgage company with his wife as President. Oops, sorry, actually it appears that he does: http://www.bestmortgage.com/profile.html

    I suppose that eliminates one of the major tasks in being a real estate reporter. No need to track down and parrot so called 'expert' opinions when you've got them in house.
  • I like this quote:
    For example, if you bought a house in 2005 and saw it increase in value by 20 percent during 2006 and then prices dropped 20 percent during 2007-08, you have not really lost money on your house. You're just near the price you paid for it in 2005.

    By my math, if the house price goes up 20%, then loses 20%, it's worth 4% less than you paid. Maybe he means "as long as you don't need to sell or refinance". On a median priced SFH, that's a $20K loss before selling costs.
  • mike2 wrote:
    I like this quote:
    For example, if you bought a house in 2005 and saw it increase in value by 20 percent during 2006 and then prices dropped 20 percent during 2007-08, you have not really lost money on your house. You're just near the price you paid for it in 2005.

    By my math, if the house price goes up 20%, then loses 20%, it's worth 4% less than you paid. Maybe he means "as long as you don't need to sell or refinance". On a median priced SFH, that's a $20K loss before selling costs.

    Thank you Mike2! It's sad that most Americans aren't math savvy enough to realize percentages work this way. The loss is off a larger starting amount, therefore the same percent loss as gain is a net loss. I guess the school system does need to be overhauled. But can we send the 40-60 year olds back too?
  • Even what Mr. Tytler is describing would be pretty painful. When my wife and I were "window-shopping" for homes in 2005 (the year Mr. Tytler describes as "the peak"), we went to a mortgage broker to get pre-approved. One of the loans he tried to push on us was a zero-down ARM, in which the rate would reset in something like 3 years to a much less bearable payment.

    "Don't worry," he assured us, "you can just refinance before that happens."

    Well, being able to refinance out of a dangerous loan like that requires that the value of the home continue to rise. If we had seen 20% appreciation since then, only to see it wiped away this year and next, we would have been in a heap of trouble come reset time next year.

    How many people were in my situation, but simply took the mortgage broker at his or her word, and are now on the fast track to financial hardship?
  • The Tim wrote:
    Even what Mr. Tytler is describing would be pretty painful. When my wife and I were "window-shopping" for homes in 2005 (the year Mr. Tytler describes as "the peak"), we went to a mortgage broker to get pre-approved. One of the loans he tried to push on us was a zero-down ARM, in which the rate would reset in something like 3 years to a much less bearable payment.

    "Don't worry," he assured us, "you can just refinance before that happens."

    Well, being able to refinance out of a dangerous loan like that requires that the value of the home continue to rise. If we had seen 20% appreciation since then, only to see it wiped away this year and next, we would have been in a heap of trouble come reset time next year.

    How many people were in my situation, but simply took the mortgage broker at his or her word, and are now on the fast track to financial hardship?

    I had the exact same thing happen. I wanted a 30 yr fixed, 20% down. The broker really pushed an ARM with less down. These are pretty much verbatim quotes:
      "How long are you going to stay in that place" "You can do other things with your money, why waste it on a down payment"
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