Man holes up in foreclosed house against SWAT, kills self

Comments

• rose-colored-coolaid

  October 2007

  Pfft! Some lurker, you have 2 posts, which clearly makes you a hydralisk and not yet a lurker.
  
  About the actual article, that is indeed tragic. It's sad that anyone would consider taking their own life over something as replaceable as a suburban house.
  
  I wouldn't worry about yourself yet, as the early cases of aggression I've read about appear to be driven by foreclosed owners belief that if they owned a house once, and did not want to give it up, then it should still be theirs. It takes a large moral leap to go from "I'm going to destroy this McMansion before the bank takes it back" to "I don't have as big of a house as I would like so I'm going to injure that guy living in a 1400 sq ft house built in the 70s."
  
  My gut (and the gut has more nerve endings than the brain - maybe) tells me that the average person has to descend towards destitution before they start acting out on another person just minding their own business. Take this guy, if he loses the house, he apparently hurts himself. But if he's having trouble getting food to eat, well who knows.
• Siddha

  October 2007 edited November 2007

  I am sorry to hear this happened.
• jillayne

  October 2007

  Oh my God that is simply awful. How sad.
  
  "Williams said Hahn was recently divorced, depressed and struggled with financial problems and drug addiction."
  
  Tomorrow morning, I've got to get up in front of 30 Realtors and teach a class called "Foreclosure; Losing the American dream." I wonder if any of them would have caught this story.
  
  I think I'm going to add this to the end of the class, to remind them to be on the lookout for signs of major depression in their clients who are in financial distress.
• jillayne

  November 2007

  Follow up from last week.
  
  I did share this news story with the students at the Foreclosure class last week. I waited until the very end of class, when they were watching the clock, and stacking their papers getting ready to jet out of there.
  
  The impact I was hoping to make, was to connect foreclosing homeowners with social services at the very beginning of the transaction: refer foreclosing homeowners to a HUD-approved housing counseling agency, refer them to an attorney for legal counsel, if they're financially insolvent, refer them to their local bar association for free legal aid....and refer them to a mental health professional if they see the warning signs of depression. Yes, there are low-cost/free mental health clinics out there for people in financial distress.
  
  Some Realtors are so in to themselves and their commission (Will this house sell? When? For how much? What do I have to do to get it ready to sell? Will I get a commission? How much?) that they miss small but crucial details.
  
  The story did make an impact. Thanks for posting the link, squidier.
• squidier

  November 2007

  Thanks, jillayne. I think it's great that you made an impact with your students and brought attention to the emotional impact foreclosure can have on people, their ideas of who they are, and their sense of personal worth.
  
  I hope we all don't lose our humanity and compassion for others in a world situation that might well become quite ugly.
• rose-colored-coolaid

  November 2007

  squidier, I wouldn't worry too much about that. People seem lose their compassion in a world where everyone is making a buck. In a world which is falling apart, people tend to remember how to be compassionate again. At least, that's been my experience.
• squidier

  November 2007

  I hope (and deep-down I do believe) that you're right, rose-colored-coolaid, and that most people do tend to show the better part of themselves during times of crisis. Most of them.
  
  
  Here's another one:
  
  
  Housing Counselors Share in the Strain of Foreclosures
  Nonprofit Workers' Caseloads Are Rising, and So Is Their Exposure to Homeowners' Anguish
  
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01201.html
• laxtosnoco

  November 2007

  In a previous job in Los Angeles, part of my job was to supervise a team of housing counselors. I still stay in touch with a few of them, and in a strange way they find their jobs easier now than a few years ago.
  
  Buyers are more cautious, suspicious of loan officers and Realtors, and they are more interested in doing their homework before jumping into a purchase.
  
  On the foreclosure prevention side, a lot of times the work can be depressing, but by the time most people make it to a counselor they've come to the realization that they're in deep trouble. Many people are relieved that they have options, even if they're not ideal (deed in lieu / short sale, etc.).
• jillayne

  November 2007

  Another great article, squidier. Thank you.
• rose-colored-coolaid

  November 2007

  Another interesting related resource Progress Paradox.
  
  But I'm going to disagree with Siddha about how Western Civilization is mislead. People aren't seeking spiritual wealth, but rather happiness. Some seek that through material wealth and others through spiritual wealth, and yet others through fishing.
  
  What's key is that a time existed when material wealth really have a strong bearing on happiness. If every years harvest determines whether or not your family will starve (a state much of the world lives in today), then even a small amount of money would be a huge boon.
  
  What Western Society has missed is that just because a little of something is really good, a lot of something is not. We eat too much, we eagerly trade relationships for more stuff (long commutes to buy more house, moving across the country for 10% raise), and we fill our homes with things we rarely use. If these things made people happy, then why are the richest people in America not the happiest? In fact, on average they are no happier than Middle America.
  
  My advice, is don't worry too much about collapse. Things are almost certainly going to continue getting better for most everyone. Let's say America goes from consuming 50% of the world pie today to only consuming 10% by 2030. So long as that pie grows by 500%, we are in no worst shape than today. People will act like we are, because they'll see how wealthy and industrious the _____ (fill in the blank) people are, but it won't be true.
• explorer

  November 2007

  I might be more inclined to agree RCC, if the pie was expanding. That is directly opposed to what has happened in the past 30 or so years. The resources that make the pie, are not increasing. In fact, it is the size of the slices that have changed. While there is an incredible amount of wealth flowing, those that really have access have increasingly moved to control and transfer it to themsleves. You cannot get more, unless you take it from someone else.
  
  In other words, there are much less opportunites to really get a fair silce of the pie, unless you are already connected to it by birth. That has been the trend since the 80's. Bootstrapping is way over rated. Most don't succed, and more imporantly the hope for betterment is kicked in the nuts for most on a daily basis. Bootstrapping today means survivial, not advancement.
  
  There would need to be a revolution at this point to change the stauts quo. I can be optimistic, but I can also see what is happening on the street.
• Alan

  November 2007

  I agree with explorer. I read an article a few years ago that said there was more upward mobility in Europe than in the USA. I think much of the housing bubble (and other shady financial stuff going on) is a result of people realizing they are more likely to move up in the world by taking huge gambles than they are by working hard.