›

Is this the bottom?

AlanAlan
edited June 2009 in Seattle Real Estate
This house seems pretty reasonable to me.

http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/print ... id=1616387

17043 2nd Ave NW
3,070 sqft
$419k
$136/sqft
In Shoreline.
Across from a park.
It looks nice too.

So, what is wrong with it?

I bet it sells within a week.
«13456

Comments

  • ira sira s
    Alan,
    Real list calls that house only 1850 square feet, so maybe the basement was more recently finished....The pictures do look nice, but you never know of the horrors that may be lurking behind the walls.
  • MarkorMarkor
    Alan wrote:
    So, what is wrong with it?

    I bet it sells within a week.
    That's my kind of house. If it was in Bellevue or Redmond, I'd buy it at that price. It would probably sell for at least $450K there (in the current market). I don't know the Shoreline area very well but I bet you're right that it sells fast.
  • AlanAlan
    If it was really 300 sqft, it would be listed at $800k in Bellevue or Redmond.
  • MarkorMarkor
    It seems that many people count a basement as having almost zero value, finished or not. They exclude that square footage from their thinking. You see this in sales of houses that are similar, and in the same neighborhood, except that some have basements. They sell for about the same price even though the ones with basements have about twice the square footage. I value basements highly myself.

    A house in Redmond that seems very similar to this Shoreline house sold recently for $495K. It is 2250 sq. ft. with a much larger lot. There is a 2700 sq. ft. house in Bellevue that's sat unsold at $445K for a couple months (no garage though).
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    It's a tri-level, therefore the basement doesn't count...which explains the difference. It is very common to see these houses listed with the basement as part of sq/ft now, which they aren't.
  • MarkorMarkor
    Which house is a tri-level? Whether tri-level or split-level, as a buyer I have no problem seeing every sq. foot of livable area included in the total sq. footage. I don't understand buyers who value a cozy 1000 sq. ft. finished basement at zero. (Where, of two similar houses except that one also has the basement, and priced the same, they'll choose the one without the basement.) Their loss is my gain, though.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    Nevertheless, it doesn't count. It's like listing the finish attic with carpet as sq/ft.
  • AlanAlan
    Including the basement when others don't makes it difficult to compare the house to other properties.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    Alan wrote:
    Including the basement when others don't makes it difficult to compare the house to other properties.
    Exactly!
  • SeattleMooseSeattleMoose
    1) The house sold for $149000 in 1999 (Zillow)
    2) Based on the pre bubble normal appreciation rate of 4% (being generous there) the house would be worth $215K today
    3) But according to Redfin the kitchen has been updated. Looking at the pictures the kitchen looks "ok" but nothing spectacular. So let's add 30K for improvements.
    4) That brings the value of the house today to $245K based on a "average appreciation" since 1999
    5) They are asking $453K
    6) That is $208K too much

    By my calculation the house is 46% above what it would have been worth if the bubble had not happened.

    Even if you play with the numbers you will see this house is over priced.

    Remember, Seattle prices are just now nosing over.....we have a LONG way to go.
  • SeattleMooseSeattleMoose
    Step 5 should have been $419K not $453 which was the "Zestimate".

    So its only 42% overpriced....well that is a different story!!!

    It is a GREAT TIME TO BUY!!! :twisted:
  • DrShortDrShort
    1) The house sold for $149000 in 1999

    You can't always assume a "sale" is really an on the market transaction. For instance, getting a non family member off the title of a home forces a "sale" at 1/2 the outstanding loan balance. Divorce has a similar transaction.

    For this home, the last "sale" looks odd. Based on the fact it sold for $195K 4 years earlier and there were two sales at $148K within a month of each other in 1999, I'm guessing there was a divorce, quit claim, etc. going on. And if so, the $148K can't be used for valuation today. Go back to the 1995 sales price of $195K and use the sale methodology.
  • LUCLUC
    You can't always assume a "sale" is really an on the market transaction. For instance, getting a non family member off the title of a home forces a "sale" at 1/2 the outstanding loan balance. Divorce has a similar transaction.

    For this home, the last "sale" looks odd. Based on the fact it sold for $195K 4 years earlier and there were two sales at $148K within a month of each other in 1999, I'm guessing there was a divorce, quit claim, etc. going on. And if so, the $148K can't be used for valuation today. Go back to the 1995 sales price of $195K and use the sale methodology.

    It still makes it overpriced.
  • AlanAlan
    Here is a tip when listing your house: Be honest. If you include the basement in your square footage then I am going to wonder what other lies you are telling. It will make me not want to buy your house.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    But sad thing is everyone else is doing it...if I don't, my house just seem much smaller!
  • AlanAlan
    If it is standard practice then you are not telling a lie.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    It is still a lie, but it is also the "norm".
  • BenBen
    I think that it is standard practice to include finished basement sq ft. But it needs to be to code (which many basements finished by DIYers are not).

    Every new house from local builders that has a basement finished includes it in the sq ft, and they also charge just as much for it. But they are finishing the basement to code, and normally it is a daylight basement to take advantage of a sloping lot.

    This is another thing to watch out for with older houses. They have more accumulated strangeness from previous owners to consider.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    appraisal cannot include basement in their report. so to use it as total sq/ft, it is misleading.
  • NotabullNotabull
    My house has 3 levels and is on a hill, so it's basically two levels and a finished basement with huge windows on the down slope side. The basement looks identical to the rest of the house in terms of finish quality and the ceilings are 9 feet. It has a laundry room/mud room with door out to the outside.

    My point is that the "basement" is no longer a basement at my place - it's just space in my house. In fact, when I looked around before I bought I thought "where's the basement?". A minor bummer from a storage perspective (although the garage is big enough for that), but apart from that I'm happy with my basement. In fact, I'm sitting in it right now watching TV and enjoying the view.

    There's a world of difference between DIY shitty remodel with 7 foot ceilings and a weird smell, and a professional job in a basement that was appropriate for the conversion in the first place.
  • NotabullNotabull
    Ubersalad wrote:
    appraisal cannot include basement in their report. so to use it as total sq/ft, it is misleading.

    Then I guess my lower level isn't a basement, even though it's situated directly on the concrete slab. The appraisal included the space, as it should in this case.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    Appraiser essentially can write whatever, it's the lender UW that decide whether or not the report is acceptable. Your house could have simply slid by.
  • NotabullNotabull
    Ubersalad wrote:
    Appraiser essentially can write whatever, it's the lender UW that decide whether or not the report is acceptable. Your house could have simply slid by.

    I *suppose* that multiple appraisers over the years could all have missed this, and I suppose that the assessors and tax records could also be inaccurate. Seems incredibly unlikely to me.

    I think what's more likely is that renovated basement space, if permitted, inspected, heated and properly finished *is* actual space in house and can be reported as such. Obviously the quality of the final space is highly variable - that goes without saying.
  • AlanAlan
    Based on the price per square foot of the listing in question, I'm going to guess that the square footage they list includes and unfinished basement.

    Note to self: Never buy a house listed by Deborah Covey.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    Notabull wrote:
    Ubersalad wrote:
    Appraiser essentially can write whatever, it's the lender UW that decide whether or not the report is acceptable. Your house could have simply slid by.

    I *suppose* that multiple appraisers over the years could all have missed this, and I suppose that the assessors and tax records could also be inaccurate. Seems incredibly unlikely to me.

    I think what's more likely is that renovated basement space, if permitted, inspected, heated and properly finished *is* actual space in house and can be reported as such. Obviously the quality of the final space is highly variable - that goes without saying.
    It's obvious that I never seen your house, but whatever makes you feel better I guess. Thanks for the pointless continuation.
  • NotabullNotabull
    "It's obvious that I never seen your house, but whatever makes you feel better I guess. Thanks for the pointless continuation."

    You don't need to see my house. The multiple appraisers and assessors over the years all deemed the permitted and inspected square footage to be valid and legal square footage. Just because you lost the debate over this doesn't excuse your bad attitude, although it never stopped you in the past.

    I think you may need to grow up a little.
  • UbersaladUbersalad
    I am stating the fact from general guideline of an appraisal, and you bring up your own supposedly exception case. What do you want me to say?

    You win, you can have the last word. You need attention or something?
  • rose-colored-coolaidrose-colored-coolaid
    Yeish guys. It's just a daylight basement.

    I think everyone got the point though. Basements don't usually count, unless they are finished and meet code.
  • MarkorMarkor
    The house is off the market now. Anyone know why?

    If a basement isn't included in the square footage, hopefully it's noted somewhere in the other stats, or else I'd immediately skip to the next house in a web search.
  • ira sira s
    Markor,
    NWMLS lists the house as pending, as of 4/10.
Sign In or Register to comment.