I was wondering when this one would relist. Audacious price of 1 mil when it was listed last year, now reality hits. Well, at least heading in the right direction to reality. Not Seattle, Kent.
If houses in close-in neighborhoods are still getting multiple offers sometimes, what's this house's story? It looks perfect for that. Where's the Real Seattle Area where house prices aren't falling? Anybody?
I am really not sure what the deal is. I have lived near it for over 3 years. The family moved out last summer. Sold, then was quickly remodeled and new for sale sign popped up around August. Redfin says days on market is 189!
Listing Price History
Date Price
Sep 11, 2007 $569,950
Oct 02, 2007 $554,950
Oct 23, 2007 $545,000
Jan 29, 2008 $535,000
Mar 10, 2008 $514,950
Whats even more interesting is the sales history. They took a hit at the peak. Not sure how they managed that one.
Sales History
Date Price Appreciation
May 15, 1986 $73,500 --
Jul 31, 2006 $467,500 9.6%/yr
Jul 03, 2007 $411,000 -13.0%/yr
One issue that comes to mind is that 65th is pretty damn busy. People are consistantly driving at or near freeway speeds. The garage has also been blocked off. Obvious from the outside.
The house is fully staged and was painted in the last week or so. Here is an updated photo.
Speaking of Ballard... I walked from 65th to 70th the other day. Hit each block in between. There are some serious dumps in this neighborhood. Some even look like they could be condemned. I don't get all the hype.
I saw this house -- 65th is super busy, the yard is miniscule, and it just seemed like a flip to me. I tried to avoid all flips (not interested in their granite -- the flips always made me wonder what they were hiding).
Speaking of Ballard... I walked from 65th to 70th the other day. Hit each block in between. There are some serious dumps in this neighborhood. Some even look like they could be condemned. I don't get all the hype.
Don't let Angie hear you say this!
Seriously though... Small yard, on a main thoroughfare, garage is blocked (meaning you will be fighting for parking space on 65th - joy), etc. Lot more wrong than there is right, and there are similar houses for quite a bit less.
Nothing like $749,950 ($417 a square foot) for a plywood townhouse in Greenlake. Did anyone tell this builder that you can buy a very nice upgraded free standing house for the same price (with actual land ). Brand new lising! and there are 3 more just like it. I bet they are going to see an army of people beating a path to that open house tomorrow.
They dropped the price by 10k. It will sell now for sure...
Looks like the $25K drop was temporary. Price is now $30K below original asking. Oooh... another $5K off. That's what, <2 weeks take home pay for someone buying a $570K house?
Looks like my old boss' boss still hasn't sold his house, first put on the market back in September. It's still on the market (though with a new MLS#), and they haven't even dropped the price at all.
As the listing says, this house is quite close to downtown Redmond and literally just minutes from Microsoft. I thought houses around there were still "flying off the shelves" or something. Guess not.
Looks like my old boss' boss still hasn't sold his house, first put on the market back in September. It's still on the market (though with a new MLS#), and they haven't even dropped the price at all.
It's worth about $550K, and even then it might not find a buyer before the value drops further. I don't see why sellers waste their time & opportunity by overpricing this much.
Hah, nope, I didn't get fired, I can assure you. The only reason I noticed it is because he posted it FSBO on the internal work classifieds before listing with an agent. So it's hardly "spying."
I'm starting to think that he doesn't really want to sell, but is going through with the listing to appease the wife, who apparently wants a house with a bigger kitchen. If they really wanted to sell, they would have dropped the price at least a little bit in six months since they first listed it.
Got another one for this thread: 145 NW 76th St, 98117
Last sale: Aug 01, 2005 - $315,000
Asking: $800,000
Looks like they slapped down some granite countertops, hardwood floors, put on a fresh coat of paint and did some landscaping. I doubt they put more than $200,000 into it. It appeared to be vacant, but staged. Here's a photo I took (note that every lamp in the house is on in the middle of the day):
Interesting side note, it's listed by our P-I Real Estate Professionals friend Susan Ryan. Best quote: "There is no real estate bubble and never will be. A decrease in acceleration is not an implosion (or even a pop)."
I can't take credit for finding this one though. I met with a guy from NPR today, and we actually did the interview standing outside that house, as a prime example of the insanity of the market. The segment should air later this week.
Not only that, Susan Ryan quotes none other than 'Bubbles are for Bathtubs' Kendra Todd, as an authoritative macroeconomic source. You can't make this stuff up folks.
I have to hand it to them, they at least did a nice frosting job on that 800K turd, in my first amendment protected opinion.
I had an email exchange with Susan Ryan (the listing agent) in which she gave a defense of the listing price, and how much hard work was put into this house. Here are some excerpts:
While I understand that hyperbole helps to make a point, your statements about this house are simply inaccurate. In our previous exchanges it seemed to me that you were interested in accuracy and fair dealings, so I thought I'd provide more information about this house.
You said the sellers slapped down some granite and hardwood floors then tripled the price hoping to make a quick buck. Here's the real story. Nearly three years ago (not exactly a quick flip or a quick buck) the seller bought a 950 sqft house that was a nightmare of "deferred maintenance," outdated, worn out, and in serious need of attention if it was to be preserved, rather than torn down. He paid $315,000 to the estate of the late owner. Neighbors have told me how glad they are to see what had been a neglected house transformed into a thing of beauty, yet one that is still has much character and is in keeping with the neighborhood.
The sellers moved in and lived there for two years, coaxing life back into the garden using only organic methods, and slowly making much-needed repairs to the basic structure and systems. They had plans drawn up for a second story addition, which included modifying the existing floorplan and building out the unfinished basement. Work began on this total remodel last summer.
The have now increased the square footage to nearly three times its original size, while maintaining a fairly modest exterior profile in keeping with the neighborhood, and the new floorplan is open and spacious, in keeping with how people live now, rather than in 1924 when the home was originally built. The home is a study in meticulous craftsmanship, with marble heated floors in the bathrooms, a new efficient thermostatically controlled gas fireplace, a new efficient gas water heater and furnace, gorgeous oak floors with a rich walnut finish on the main and upper floors, honed granite counters in the entirely new kitchen, which also had heated floors and energy efficient appliances. The house now has Cat 5 wiring throughout, new electrical panel and wiring, whole-house-speaker wiring, new plumbing, new double-paned windows, new insulation, the house was bolted to the foundation in keeping with earthquake codes, new landscaping, new no-maintenance Trex deck – in short, an effective year built of 2008.
New houses in the area are selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars more than the listed price of this like-new home, houses that don't have nearly the character and amenities of this home. Nothing was slapped down, no quick fixes, a careful nine-month gestation for this baby to be born.
First let me say that while here in this thread I gave my thoughts about what it "looks like" the sellers did to the house, on the air I did not say anything specific about this house. If you listen to what I said on the air, I was talking about the mentality of slapping down granite and hardwood to make a quick buck, and did not say "that's what the owners of this house did."
I have no reason to doubt your story about the quality of the home and the time that went into it, but you have to admit that it certainly comes across as audacious to see a home listing for 2.5 times the sale price of just 2.5 years ago, and you'd have a hard time convincing me that the owners spent anywhere near $485,000 fixing it up.
I would be delighted to have you post my email, but I'd also like you to post that you were wrong about the quick-buck-slapping-down part. Your word carries weight with your readers and I'm sure you don't want to malign the owner who so meticulously restored this home.
...
I can see that without the facts, that seems like a big price jump – 2.5 times the price for the same house -- but with the facts – tiny falling down house transformed into spacious home with quality craftsmanship and all new systems (I forgot to mention the low-maintenance cement board siding in my earlier email), it isn't audacious at all. I personally thing it's great that the seller choose to preserve the house rather than bulldoze it and "slap up" a new one. If he had, no one would be calling it an "audacious flip." If you saw the home (and I really would like to show you, so you'd see for yourself, since it was a deliberate choice for it to appear modest from the outside) you would see how very much money, time and effort the sellers put into it.
From your last sentence I wonder – are you saying people only have to right to list a home for exactly what they have into it? That they have no right to be compensated for their time, effort & craftsmanship? Should a builder only be allowed to sell a home for the cost of materials and labor, rather than what a willing buyer would pay for the quality of the work? Also, if prices go up in your neighborhood over three years of ownership, you're not allowed to sell the home for more than your paid for it unless you put a corresponding amount of money into it?
As far whether or not this home is "audacious," I'm going to have to defer to the definition:
1. Fearlessly, often recklessly daring; bold.
I think it qualifies as fearlessly daring and bold to undertake a project like this and put such a home on the market for $800k, especially when very few recent sales in the neighborhood have been for more than $600k. And the title of the forum thread is "Audacious Flips and Renovations" (emphasis mine). This clearly qualifies as a renovation.
As far as the free market goes, more power to them (and to you, to the tune of at least $12k) if you all can find somebody willing to pay asking price in this market. I'm just saying that despite your explanations, I don't see that there was $485k worth of value added to this home. I personally doubt that the work you describe would have cost more than $250k, and to me, home remodeling is not a job worth nearly $100k per year.
For the record, Susan has been courteous and level-headed in our interactions, and not a combative blowhard like some real estate agents I've had the misfortune to converse with online. I appreciate her maintaining an actual sense of professionalism.
From your last sentence I wonder – are you saying people only have to right to list a home for exactly what they have into it? That they have no right to be compensated for their time, effort & craftsmanship? Should a builder only be allowed to sell a home for the cost of materials and labor, rather than what a willing buyer would pay for the quality of the work? Also, if prices go up in your neighborhood over three years of ownership, you're not allowed to sell the home for more than your paid for it unless you put a corresponding amount of money into it?
I think it's totally fair to get more out than you put in. People live in houses for three years all the time, don't touch anything and cash out higher value.
On the flip side, this is exactly the reason that we shouldn't bail out the housing mess. If the free market won't support your inflated house price, that's just business.
The sellers moved in and lived there for two years, coaxing life back into the garden using only organic methods, and slowly making much-needed repairs to the basic structure and systems. They had plans drawn up for a second story addition, which included modifying the existing floorplan and building out the unfinished basement. Work began on this total remodel last summer.
I for one would have been much more impressed had they coaxed life back into the garden using only inorganic methods. That would be a scientific feat well worth a few hundred extra thousand dollars.
Which is to say, why is everybody so obsessed with 'organic' things. Bush is organic too! Actually, maybe that should be his new slogan to boost his abysmal approval rating.
They had plans drawn up for a second story addition, which included modifying the existing floorplan and building out the unfinished basement. Work began on this total remodel last summer.
I just realized that this most likely means that they're including the finished basement in the stated 2,570 square footage on the listing. Tsk.
Hey, I also noticed it's got an open house this Sunday from 1:00-4:00. Anybody want to go?
The home is a study in meticulous craftsmanship, with marble heated floors in the bathrooms, a new efficient thermostatically controlled gas fireplace, a new efficient gas water heater and furnace, gorgeous oak floors with a rich walnut finish on the main and upper floors, honed granite counters in the entirely new kitchen, which also had heated floors and energy efficient appliances. The house now has Cat 5 wiring throughout, new electrical panel and wiring, whole-house-speaker wiring, new plumbing, new double-paned windows, new insulation, the house was bolted to the foundation in keeping with earthquake codes, new landscaping, new no-maintenance Trex deck – in short, an effective year built of 2008.
In other words, they took a tiny bungalow and tried to revamp it into a McMansion monstrosity while making it look like it's in keeping with the neighborhood. This is why I left Seattle.
Bungalows being destroyed by people who want a McMansion to begin with, with all the glitzy crap that goes with it.
Oak floors? OK, I'll bite....
1 1/2" strip? 2 1/4" strip? Plank? Solid, and if so, how thick? Engineered?
Who did the installation? Who did the finish?
Red or White?
They ruined the charm of an old house by replacing the very things that made the charm...
If you want efficient, build something new... Please?
Some of us WANT original hexagon tile floors in the bathroom, not heated marble floors.
Some of us WANT a fireplace, not a ambiance gas wasting glass front fake...
And granite? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I won't even get into the double paned windows... I just wish I had been around to grab the wood ones they removed....
Some people need to put down the Restoration Hardware catalog before they buy an old house.
I agree with Susan Ryan that the buyer shouldn't care how much money was put into a house. Price it on its own merits. If it sells at that price then so be it and good for them. Personally I don't get how construction and jobs suddenly warrant six figure salaries, but whatever. That house is so far out of my price range that it isn't even worth thinking about. I would need to triple my income to afford that house.
Comments
Excepting the last (audicious) price increase, this post belongs in the equity-stompin' comp killers thread!
$340/sqft on a 2500 sq ft lot doesn't strike me as a comp killer.
http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/print ... id=1512049
It's also $65k under its 2006 sale price. This seems more like a comp killer than an audacious flip.
http://redfin.com/stingray/do/printable ... id=1521095
10616 8th Ave NW
Seattle, WA 98177
They're asking for $170K profit in 4 months.
Seattle, WA 98115
Asking Price: $574,950
Last sale: Sep 21, 2006 $453,501
$25,000 Temporary Price Reduction!!!! Sure it is...
Also available for rent on Craigslist for $2100/mo.
http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/print ... id=1439007
This house just saw its first price reduction. It has been reduced to $554,950.[/quote]
Down to $514,000.00
Listing Price History
Date Price
Sep 11, 2007 $569,950
Oct 02, 2007 $554,950
Oct 23, 2007 $545,000
Jan 29, 2008 $535,000
Mar 10, 2008 $514,950
Whats even more interesting is the sales history. They took a hit at the peak. Not sure how they managed that one.
Sales History
Date Price Appreciation
May 15, 1986 $73,500 --
Jul 31, 2006 $467,500 9.6%/yr
Jul 03, 2007 $411,000 -13.0%/yr
One issue that comes to mind is that 65th is pretty damn busy. People are consistantly driving at or near freeway speeds. The garage has also been blocked off. Obvious from the outside.
The house is fully staged and was painted in the last week or so. Here is an updated photo.
Speaking of Ballard... I walked from 65th to 70th the other day. Hit each block in between. There are some serious dumps in this neighborhood. Some even look like they could be condemned. I don't get all the hype.
Don't let Angie hear you say this!
Seriously though... Small yard, on a main thoroughfare, garage is blocked (meaning you will be fighting for parking space on 65th - joy), etc. Lot more wrong than there is right, and there are similar houses for quite a bit less.
They dropped the price by 10k. It will sell now for sure...
Looks like the $25K drop was temporary. Price is now $30K below original asking. Oooh... another $5K off. That's what, <2 weeks take home pay for someone buying a $570K house?
As the listing says, this house is quite close to downtown Redmond and literally just minutes from Microsoft. I thought houses around there were still "flying off the shelves" or something. Guess not.
I'm starting to think that he doesn't really want to sell, but is going through with the listing to appease the wife, who apparently wants a house with a bigger kitchen. If they really wanted to sell, they would have dropped the price at least a little bit in six months since they first listed it.
Last sale: Aug 01, 2005 - $315,000
Asking: $800,000
Looks like they slapped down some granite countertops, hardwood floors, put on a fresh coat of paint and did some landscaping. I doubt they put more than $200,000 into it. It appeared to be vacant, but staged. Here's a photo I took (note that every lamp in the house is on in the middle of the day):
Interesting side note, it's listed by our P-I Real Estate Professionals friend Susan Ryan. Best quote: "There is no real estate bubble and never will be. A decrease in acceleration is not an implosion (or even a pop)."
I can't take credit for finding this one though. I met with a guy from NPR today, and we actually did the interview standing outside that house, as a prime example of the insanity of the market. The segment should air later this week.
I have to hand it to them, they at least did a nice frosting job on that 800K turd, in my first amendment protected opinion.
Reba Haas for example...
http://www.redfin.com/stingray/do/print ... id=1266151
I had an email exchange with Susan Ryan (the listing agent) in which she gave a defense of the listing price, and how much hard work was put into this house. Here are some excerpts:
First let me say that while here in this thread I gave my thoughts about what it "looks like" the sellers did to the house, on the air I did not say anything specific about this house. If you listen to what I said on the air, I was talking about the mentality of slapping down granite and hardwood to make a quick buck, and did not say "that's what the owners of this house did."
My response to Susan: Her reply: And lastly, my reply:
For the record, Susan has been courteous and level-headed in our interactions, and not a combative blowhard like some real estate agents I've had the misfortune to converse with online. I appreciate her maintaining an actual sense of professionalism.
I think it's totally fair to get more out than you put in. People live in houses for three years all the time, don't touch anything and cash out higher value.
On the flip side, this is exactly the reason that we shouldn't bail out the housing mess. If the free market won't support your inflated house price, that's just business.
I for one would have been much more impressed had they coaxed life back into the garden using only inorganic methods. That would be a scientific feat well worth a few hundred extra thousand dollars.
Which is to say, why is everybody so obsessed with 'organic' things. Bush is organic too! Actually, maybe that should be his new slogan to boost his abysmal approval rating.
Hey, I also noticed it's got an open house this Sunday from 1:00-4:00. Anybody want to go?
In other words, they took a tiny bungalow and tried to revamp it into a McMansion monstrosity while making it look like it's in keeping with the neighborhood. This is why I left Seattle.
Bungalows being destroyed by people who want a McMansion to begin with, with all the glitzy crap that goes with it.
Oak floors? OK, I'll bite....
1 1/2" strip? 2 1/4" strip? Plank? Solid, and if so, how thick? Engineered?
Who did the installation? Who did the finish?
Red or White?
They ruined the charm of an old house by replacing the very things that made the charm...
If you want efficient, build something new... Please?
Some of us WANT original hexagon tile floors in the bathroom, not heated marble floors.
Some of us WANT a fireplace, not a ambiance gas wasting glass front fake...
And granite? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I won't even get into the double paned windows... I just wish I had been around to grab the wood ones they removed....
Some people need to put down the Restoration Hardware catalog before they buy an old house.
Sheesh!
Down to $514,000.00[/quote]
Went outside this morning and low and behold, another price reduction. $499,950.
In regards the $800k place, it kind of reminds of guys in highschool putting $2000 wheels on a $1000 car.