Seattle Bubble

• Government Hinders Affordable Housing
• Artificially Inflated Prices Add To Woes
• Latest Dangerous Bailout Possibly Stoppable
• Zealous Optimism = Growing Equity Borrowing
• Dispatches from the Road: TX, LA, FL

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60 responses so far ↓

• 1 Rob Dawg // Sep 4, 2008 at 12:58 pm

  Simple,it used to be that “not as bad as SoCal” was enough. That has changed.

• 2 vboring // Sep 4, 2008 at 12:59 pm

  i don’t think the borg cube housing farms within a block or two of Aurora are any worse than the abandoned looking houses that they replaced.

  they screw up parking and make traffic worse, but they also improve energy efficiency and population density (which should eventually improve the bus service)

  i’d sure be annoyed if i lived next to one in a nice neighborhood, though.

• 3 Thomas B. // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:07 pm

  “No wonder the lovely, polite, civil people have turned rude and nasty (in a Northwest passive-aggressive kind of way.”

  I agree… I move to the Northwest over two decades ago and feel in love with area and the people. Everything has changed now. The things that make Seattle are gone. One only needs to look at South Lake Union/Belltown/Ballard etc and the destruction of community, neighborhood, and uniqueness. There is no longer a sense of neighborhood. Condos destroyed that. Along with the destruction of neighborhood came the destruction of what Seattle was. I can no longer tell the difference between here, Dallas, New York, San Francisco, etc. It feels like I’m in a big box store, a Wal-Mart, a generic city. I ask you… what happened to the plaid?

• 4 xaos // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:18 pm

  Just do a search for houses between 400-500K and you will see how greed has ruined Seattle. Pretty much all the results, and there are TONS, were bought in the last couple of years, painted, had cheap cabinets installed, and are now desperately trying to be flipped. In what world is 200K appreciation in two years possible? A 500K 800 square foot grandma house in Ballard?!?! Please…greed has totally killed this place. I don’t know what it is going to take for these folks to come back to reality.

• 5 Flotown // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:32 pm

  right; its awful - Ballard is a place I would actually want to go to now…I can’t stand this Knute Berger esque faux populism and less-seattleitis….

  We need more growth in the City and less in the burbs and and exurbs. We also need places for new residents to live since 65% of the entire friggin’ City is zoned for single-family houses. The fact that growth in SLU is displacing parking lots and warehouses does not make me sad.

  That said, we need to channel growth in dense pockets as much as possible to preserve industries and blue collar jobs, becuase a diverse economy is valuable financially and socially. But we only have a few locations like SLU where we have any opportunity to channel growth with displacing key industries (such as would be the case, most likely, south of SODO in the Duwamish.

  As much as one might like to wish for the 1970’s or 1980s again, life doesn’t stand still, and the city needs to preserve the past as best possible will reacting to changing economic conditions.

• 6 Flotown // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:34 pm

  Also, people on this board tend to conflate the problems caused by the housing bubble with the effects of density that, absent the housing bubble, can provide, smaller, more affordable units closer to work (thereby reducing transportation costs).

• 7 Yesler Hill // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:35 pm

  I’ve lived in the Puget Sound area since 1960, and in Seattle since 1978. The whole livability thing is long gone. Long gone. Former mayor Charles Royer is one of the main “guilty parties”. He’s the one that started out on this Seattle must be a “world class city” crap, not to mention the whole notiuon that Seattle has to give anything thing want to the developers because otherwise we’d never be “great”. And not to mention Royer is the one who lead the RE interests in blocking attempts to have rent stabilization in Seattle, even going so far as to lobby Olympia to secure outlawing rent stabilization through out the state.

  Nickels is the perfect successor to Royer; Greenwash Greg uses all sorts of smoke and mirrors pseudo-enviromentalism to cover up for what is happening to the city.

  And let’s not forget Microsoft. If only Bill Gates had been from Little Rock Arkansas or something! Or stayed in Boston!

• 8 biliruben // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:37 pm

  I move here 13 years ago, almost to the day, and most of the interesting, fun, musical or artsy people I knew have either left town or been pushed to the peripheries of King County where they can still afford (barely) to live.

  I am not sure it’s all government and greedy developer’s fault, however. Partly, perhaps.

  Hopefully we will see a reversion over the coming years, as affordability finds it’s way back into pockets of the city.

• 9 Sniglet // Sep 4, 2008 at 1:56 pm

  Taking this subject more broadly, I would say that imprudent belief in entitlement to the good times, and ever expanding wealth, has ruined the livability of nearly all cities. There is just such an expectation of consumption, and entitlement to “things”, permeating society these days that it makes me gag.

  This manifests itself in the desire for brand-name things (iPhones, high-end foods, cars, etc), the schools people attend, or even whether kids should share bedrooms or not.

  All of society seems to have been so caught up in this hyper-consumerism that we have lost all perspective on what is truly important to our lives. This is NOT just a Seattle issue, but I find it everywhere I travel (even beyond the US). Who says people have a right to the latest gadgets, exotic coffee, or expensive “organic” food?

  Even city governments get caught up in this when they start expressing preferences for condo developments over appartments, or high-end retailing establishments.

  The good news is that a good thumping recession will soon shake this consumerism streak out of everyone. We are already seeing it start to become trendy to SAVE money.

• 10 Seattle Landlord // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  Tim, If you don’t like Seattle, why don’t you get out of this place and move somewhere else? That’ll solve your problem!

• 11 The Tim // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:10 pm

  Who says I don’t like Seattle? Are you confusing my position with the one stated in the quoted email?

• 12 biliruben // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:11 pm

  I was wondering how long it would take for some benefactor of the current status quo to work the “if you don’t like it, leave” shtick.

• 13 Notabull // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:11 pm

  Is turning rude and aggressive really a Seattle thing, or is it just that the city of Seattle has got bigger and more dense? It seems to me that the larger and more dense a city becomes the more traffic it gets, and the more pissed off people become.

  Yes, I know all the arguments for increasing density, but does it make people happier and less aggressive/rude? It seems to me to be quite the opposite.

• 14 biliruben // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:12 pm

  I guess that would be perceived beneficiary, not benefactor.

• 15 biliruben // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:17 pm

  The city itself isn’t particularly more dense, I don’t think. We have essentially the same population we did in 1960. Maybe more townhomes and less apartments. The county is definitely more dense, however.

  I think with the housing values nearly tripling in the last 10 years, it has imposed a sense of status and entitlement among those lucky enough to own before the run-up. The housing run-up has imposed a class structure in a town where there wasn’t much of one before. Yeah, it was always the Nordstrom’s and their ilk and the rest of us. Now it’s “I own a craftsman on Queen Anne!” I must be special! When I move here, a craftsman on Queen Anne was less than 200K, and almost anyone could scrimp and squeeze into one, if that’s what they really wanted. Now you gotta be pretty near wealthy to get into one.

• 16 EconE // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:27 pm

  Flotown…density is one thing. Having city planners rubberstamp “luxury” condo after condo is completely different. It seems as if “affordable” density comes with a $400/sf price tag and is 300sf yet it’s touted as “affordable” just because the price is $120k.

• 17 Shaq // Sep 4, 2008 at 2:50 pm

  “And not to mention Royer is the one who lead the RE interests in blocking attempts to have rent stabilization in Seattle, even going so far as to lobby Olympia to secure outlawing rent stabilization through out the state”

  And you’re citing that as a NEGATIVE?

• 18 TheHulk // Sep 4, 2008 at 3:00 pm

  Greed? Oh yeah, most certainly. For about 4 years now, the only thing that was discussed at parties and social gatherings was who bought which house and what *upgrades* they did to *improve* the *value* of the house which was then flipped to buy an even bigger house (which had even more *appreciation*).

  Don’t wanna say I-told-you-so but it is precisely this greed and this notion of get-rich-quick that has permeated society since the years of the dot com and internet booms.

  About a month ago my realtor was still urging me to buy (his argument, school is starting soon, so houses will be priced more aggressively and its the end of the peak season). When I told him, I expect prices to come down 20-30% over the next couple of years in this area. His reply “I expect prices to stay pretty the same, just look at the last 5 years, real estate is always a good investment”. Suffices to say that I terminated contact with him after that. Seriously, what does it take to bring out an acknowledgment of reality from these folks?

• 19 rose-colored-coolaid // Sep 4, 2008 at 3:22 pm

  Simple answer, no.

  Poor planning and government has ruined the livability, due to sprawl and a rather poor mass transit system.

  Greed has, however, ruined a lot of people here and across the nation. It’s not even housing greed, it’s that people seem to be discontent with what they have. What’s wrong is the central attitude regarding possessions.

  I think the old way of looking at possessions was “I like what I have, but I daydream wistfully about getting the newest version.” Today, the attitude is “what I have isn’t new, so I can’t stand it. Why can’t I have the newer/better thing like [NAME HERE]?”

  In summary, Seattle has had growth with poor planning, and people are just generally more malcontent despite being wealthier than ever.

• 20 Bits_of_Real_Panther // Sep 4, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  In the long run all of those extra housing units will help the city become more livable unless they fall apart quickly due to poor construction.

  IMO Seattle is way behind the curve when it comes to poor planning practices. California’s cities have set the standard so high that their suckitude will be difficult to reach even for a succession of Nickelsesque mayors

• 21 Ira Sacharoff // Sep 4, 2008 at 3:47 pm

  I don’t think it was simply lack of government oversight, but a complicity on the part of the public officials with the developers and business interests. Sure, Charlie Royer and his successors were pro business, but none were as blatant as Greg Nickels. His predecessor, Paul Schell, was a developer, and everyone knew where he was coming from, but Nickels pretended to be a “man of the people”, while at the same time doing the bidding of Paul Allen and any other big monied interest around.
  The football stadium was about “providing jobs”, the rezoning of South Lake Union and tax breaks for the South Lake Union streetcar was about ” revitalizing a community.” Not to mention displacing many of the people who lived there and couldn’t afford to anymore.

• 22 david losh // Sep 4, 2008 at 5:43 pm

  In 1989, Business Month named Seattle as one of the best-managed cities in the nation. Places Rated Almanac called it the nation’s “Most Livable City,” and the national Urban Coalition named Royer the Distinguished Urban Mayor of the Year.

  CAP authors included architect-activist Peter Steinbrueck (elected to the City Council in 1997), former Allied Arts president Margaret Pageler (a member of the City Council from 1993 to 2002), deputy City Attorney Ted Inkley, and City Council member Jim Street (Council member from 1984 to 1996). The pro-CAP campaign was also fueled by frustration over the failure to preserve Westlake Park as open space under a plan, ironically, endorsed by Victor Steinbrueck (Peter’s father) shortly before his death in 1984.

  The CAP Initiative effectively drove a stake through the heart of down town Seattle. The idea was that Martin Selig was a villian that needed to be stopped and Seattle was to be a park like, open space, art community, paid for by local small business owners.
  Greed had very little to do with the end of Seattle. Just the opposite it was Mass Transit, recycling programs, and Open Spaces.

  I will agree with the greed of Seattle in the past thirteen years has altered things, but Royer was a good man trying to do good things. Schell I have a sever problem with and Nickles has finished putting nails in the coffin.

• 23 b // Sep 4, 2008 at 6:04 pm

  No, “bubble culture” of the last decade has just warped many American’s viewpoint. The fact that most people live in cities, and cities ratchet up tension between people, just makes it much worse in those areas. I have lived in several metropolitan areas over the last decade in the US and I can saw that I saw the same type of self-centered behavior manifest itself more and more no matter where I lived. I used to think “back in Seattle where I grew up people were XYZ”. Then I moved back here and its the same as everywhere else, filled with self-centered pricks.

  Basically I think its just a retro-80’s greed-is-good kind of mentality among those in the top working class cohort (e.g. mid-30s to low 50’s) combined with several bubbles over the last while that allowed them to get-rich-quick. Being self-centered in nature and then combining it with once in a lifetime bubble riches from stocks or housing tends to make those people think they walk on water.

• 24 magnolia44 // Sep 4, 2008 at 6:24 pm

  waiting for the next topic… “Does it rain too much in Seattle, why are we here”?

  NExt………………………

• 25 david losh // Sep 4, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  Anyway, I think this is a great topic. You have to pick some place to live. Once you’re there you have to make it work.
  So what better topic than how to fix what we have?

• 26 ekim // Sep 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  b- I agree, except that I see the mass consumption being in the under 35 crowd. The goals of some of my employees are all about possessions.

  Some are not, but the ones driven by possessions are without fail the ones who ‘know it all because they found it out on the internet’. God forbid they listen to anyone over 50 for advice.

  It’s a weird society we’ve become.

• 27 Mike2 // Sep 4, 2008 at 6:53 pm

  Too late. If and when I move back to the PNW, it’s likely to be Portland.

• 28 Eric Arrrrr // Sep 4, 2008 at 7:01 pm

  One way to look at it is, nobody in their right mind would build view condos with "chocolate"-ass 5sq.ft. juliet balconies except as the unintended perversion of some badly-written rule somewhere. And nobody in their right mind would build entire blocks of townhouses with separate garages all opening towards each other except for the same reason.

  But that’s not greed, it’s just the unambitious self-interest of builders following the path of least resistance.

  Another way to look at it is, nobody in their right mind would buy hastily made-over balsa wood apartments-turned-condos with an adjustable rate financing and nothing down if there wasn’t a major buck to be made off the poor schlep standing behind them in line at the hot new pre-purchase event.

  That’s greed.

• 29 Matthew // Sep 4, 2008 at 8:04 pm

  Mike2,

  Why not stay in Fairfax? It’s nice out there. I spend quite a few weeks of the year in Fairfax county and really enjoy it.

• 30 The canary // Sep 4, 2008 at 9:09 pm

  Ruined the place? Ever read “Sons of the Profits”, most famous history of Seattle from when Denny arrived…the name is fitting, the people has always been a**holes here…and before anyone has a chance to comment, native, born in St. Francis Cabrini…if you don’t know what hospital that is, ya, then, you aren’t a native.

• 31 Thomas B. // Sep 4, 2008 at 9:19 pm

  Plaid is replaced by Prada. That’s all I have to say.

• 32 johnnybigspenda // Sep 4, 2008 at 9:57 pm

  the conversation on SB has finally devolved to complaining… very insightful.

• 33 Yesler Hill // Sep 4, 2008 at 9:58 pm

  “And you’re citing that as a NEGATIVE?”

  Absolutely, were there rent stabilization, developers would not have slpped together these vinyl sided crates they call buildings with such abandon.

  Royer was not a good mayor, he is the one that started us down this path. Under Royer Seattle’s government become simpering lapdogs for the land owning interests. He was not unlike Nickels, except with Royer it was a pretense of supporting neighborhoods, etc, where as Nickels doesn’t give a hoot abt neighbhoods, his smoke and mirrors is all this eco stuff. Yes, all good things (except the tax on lower income people via plastic and paper bags), except they pander to the ecoyuppies at the expense of what’s left of the working class in this city, not to mention the lower income people. Norm Rice was no proze pig himslef, but he was just a hack, not an actual schemer, like Royer. And I liked Shells idea abt municipal ownership of a high speed internet system.

  The housing bubble is not the singular cause of the deterioration of Seattle, it is (as mentioned above), the consumerist entitlements the nouveau riche cakesniffers are so obsessed with. That translates into rudeness and unplesantness.

  I’ll be interested to see who runs against Nickels next year. Nickels representing the downtown business interests, the developers and general real estate interests and the nouveau riche.

• 34 Ira Sacharoff // Sep 4, 2008 at 9:59 pm

  “Ruined the place? Ever read “Sons of the Profits”, most famous history of Seattle from when Denny arrived…the name is fitting, the people has always been a**holes here…and before anyone has a chance to comment, native, born in St. Francis Cabrini…if you don’t know what hospital that is, ya, then, you aren’t a native.”

  Seattle has a very long history of being a boom and bust town, so when people say things like ” Seattle is immune”…Basically they’re talking out of their ass.
  I remember Cabrini Hospital, just a few blocks from Seattle General and Doctors hospital.

• 35 Charles Dean // Sep 4, 2008 at 10:05 pm

  Tim hates Seattle and he hates freedom. I know this. he told me.

• 36 mukoh // Sep 4, 2008 at 10:21 pm

  Who cares? If you are looking for a hippie place move to the islands thats where all the “creative” minds went. Just try Orcas Island. Woops actually thats one of the most expensive zip codes. :)

  People whine and complain more then ever before.

• 37 shawn // Sep 4, 2008 at 10:54 pm

  I left Seattle in 1990 for SF, left SF in ‘94 for Austin, left Austin in 95 for Dallas (UNT), left Dallas in 2000 for LA, moved to Bellevue two months ago. One thing I can tell you is that Seattle and 99% of the people here are NOT insane. Want rude insane people go to LA. In Seattle there are some rude folks. But it is different. In LA they take pride in their rudeness. The crime there is out of control. If you get your car broken into the police will not come to your home, if your home gets broken into, they will come and fill out a form and then send you a letter telling you that they will not be investigating it due to no budget for you. So, you drive around breathing the stink that they call air and you wonder what in the blank you are doing there. Want to talk about overpriced housing, gosh. So, believe me, this place may have degraded, but to folks that don’t care for rudeness and seek civility, this place is still heaven. I just wish this place would quit trying to be LA, NYC, SF, etc.

• 38 EconE // Sep 5, 2008 at 12:40 am

  Shawn…

  What’s your opinion on Austin? I’ve visited once for a few days but never lived there. People seemed really friendly although the constant “yes ma’am” thing was a bit odd.

• 39 shawn // Sep 5, 2008 at 12:47 am

  Austin was Great! Nice people. You would be walking down the street and people in their cars passing by would wave, really, they would wave. Real southern hospitality. Like the rest of TX it is hot, hotter, then hot, those are the seasons. I rate Austin right behind Seattle. Seattle wins because you can make very good pay here, but in Austin the pay is much lower, and with the cost of living adjusted in, it is still a better deal here in Seattle.

• 40 EconE // Sep 5, 2008 at 1:35 am

  Thanks Shawn…appreciate the opinion. I just might have to head down and check it out again. It’s been 10 years since I visited so I’m sure it’s quite a bit different. Not really worried about the pay differential. And heat is something I can deal with as I’ve lived in Sacramento and Missouri so heat and humidity are really no big deal. Not that I hate Seattle or anything. I’ve lived here off and on for 10 years or so just like to mix things up a bit before I decide where I want to plant roots.

• 41 EconE // Sep 5, 2008 at 1:37 am

  I also agree with you about your assessment of L.A. even though I grew up there.

• 42 richie // Sep 5, 2008 at 6:05 am

  EconE

  I lived in Austin in the entire 70. The housing was very reasonable. The city size was just right. Like Washington, Texas has no state income tax. However, the property tax was near 3% of the market value. The electricity rate was outrageous.

  Over the last 28 years, the city has transformed into a high-tech center. The population tripled. The sales tax has soared from 5% to the same level as Washington. The housing price has gone through several boom and bust cycles. Because of liberal building codes and ample supply of flat lands, the housing prices have never been insane like SF or LA. I remembered that in the mid-80s bust cycle, houses were sold at 30% discount from the peak of late 70s and early 80s level. Like everywhere in the country, the real estate is in a bust cycle again. However, the average price of SFH is about 50% to 60% level of Seattle. I do not believe that the contraction will be too bad.

  Judging from the mix of much higher utility bills, lower housing cost, higher property tax rate, lower labor cost, you are probably just even.

  Just remember: Se Habla Espanol..

• 43 David McManus // Sep 5, 2008 at 7:04 am

  I think the reason people are pissed is that they see their “investment” going down in value every day, reduced access to easy credit, and the lack of any savings to speak about.

  They see the writing on the wall.

• 44 David McManus // Sep 5, 2008 at 7:07 am

  Over the last 28 years, the city [Austin] has transformed into a high-tech center. The population tripled.

  Not true. Seattle is where all the jobs are, especially high tech! Plus we’ve got pink ponies!

• 45 richie // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:09 am

  David

  Austin’s high tech focuses on the hardware side. Seattle’s high tech focuses on the software side. The total revenues are compaitble.

• 46 Big Mike 34 // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:14 am

  I don’t understand the whining from this author….If the Condo’s are Sub Par no one was forced to buy them. The owners were not forbidden from improving them…

  The article seems idiotic to me……sounds like another socialist who whats the government to interfer more in our lives.

• 47 David McManus // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:19 am

  richie,

  You can’t think of Austin as just Dell, just as you can’t say Seattle is just Microsoft. There are a lot of other players down there in the services (software development) side of things.

  -D

• 48 softwarengineer // Sep 5, 2008 at 8:42 am

  I AGREE WITH THE ARTICLE: I SEE MUCH MORE RUDENESS IN THE SEATTLE AREA LATELY

  As our home cash machines become empty boxes are we becoming more short tempered and rude? I think so, here’s some examples I’ve noticed recently:

  1. Coming home at the airport last July with 3 big luggage and 3 adults, I was in back of another multi-person party with mass luggage waiting for a taxi. A subcompact Prius pulled up first for the party in front of me, then a full size Ford came for my party. I told the Ford taxi I needed him and he got out to load my luggage in the full size sedan. Suddenly the 2nd party had a “pit-bull” mom that came right up to me and screamed in my face, “That’s my taxi, we got here first, you get the Prius.” I told her, “This is America, I got this taxi first and that’s that”. Her face was red and she looked like she was going to punch me; but we got in the 2nd taxi and drove off. [nothing that bizzarre has ever happenned to me at SEATAC in my life and I ride planes frequently]

  2. Just last week i was driving slow [about 10-15 mph] through my HOA to get to a date. Suddenly an angry man jumped out at me and threw his fist at me screaming at me [probably telling me to go 2 mph]….bizzarre. Why do these angry people get so mad at innocent slow driving drivers and there are no kids around either? Seattle people are on short fuses?

  3. A friend told me he was sitting in his truck in Marysville and a women asked him if she could tape measure his truck bed, he tod he “no”. She immediately went into ranting and raving that he was a selfish and inconsiderate monster….geeeeez…..talk about lack of control.

  These are just a few examples I’ve noticed, I’m sure you bloggers have sensed more rudeness in Seattle too, its off the scale in my opinion.

• 49 BubbleBuyer // Sep 5, 2008 at 9:24 am

  “Want rude insane people go to LA”

  Hallelujah brother! You need to have lived in a "chocolate"hole city like LA to even begin to understand how nice Seattle is. I lived in LA for 4 years and during that time interacted with the most obnoxious, self absorbed, vapid, moronic people I ever wish to encounter. Traffic, pollution, stupidity on an epic scale, taxes, insane housing prices, low quality housing stock, smog, did I mention traffic…..I could go on forever. I lived in San Francisco, Chicago, San Diego and Philadelphia and similar characterizations apply to varying degrees. I travel extensively for business, and the only two cities in the USA that make my heart skip a beat as the plane is on final approach for landing are San Francisco and Seattle.

  Is Seattle perfect? Hell no, but it a an order of magnitude better than all the other “large” cities I have visited or lived in. the people are more interesting, self effacing and decent. The quality of live is pretty "golly" good here. Yes, most of the condo & townhouse developments are soulless. But, they increase housing density and provide relatively affordable housing. It’s a fact that people continue to gravitate to large cities in the USA and that this trend will continue for a while. Cities need to provide housing to accommodate this growth. That’s just a fact of life.

  The great thing about the USA is the variety and number of locations. Pick your poison. Life is to short to live in a city you dislike.

• 50 Interloper // Sep 5, 2008 at 9:34 am

  Seattle’s livability is compromised by a couple of things: 1.) apparently it has re-zoned rapidly but 2.) doesn’t like to build roads. So the population in Seattle is rising and the traffic is bad and will only get worse.

  This doesn’t seem like a place where Pink Ponies should want to live, yet they still do! : )

• 51 robroy // Sep 5, 2008 at 9:38 am

  Seattle? Isn’t that the city that kind of borders the place where I live and the places where I work and play?

  I’ve been pretty much done with the town for some time now. If only we could split King county into “east and west” counties, my five year plan would not include moving to Kentucky.

  My wife and I do like to ride the tandem to that little Mexican place on capitol hill from time to time, and get ice cream at the Dicks up there. The reason? In capitol hill, the circus is always in town!

  I’ve been here since 1966. The area is a laughing stock around my circle of friends. We used to watch Norm Rice SLEEP during city council meetings back in the early 1980’s…

• 52 david losh // Sep 5, 2008 at 9:45 am

  I think the actual point is the luxury condo market’s juxtaposition to the crap. An article not quoted is the one that says high quality luxury condos still have a market place in down town Seattle.
  Let’s look at Paul Schell’s Water Mark Tower as an example. It still has legs. There is a market place for high end Real Estate everywhere in Seattle.
  There are also many people who made fortunes by building crappy town house units who were nobodies ten years ago.
  A lot of money was made by building crap. Margins were high, and quality was extremely questionable. I looked at a place, lower Queen Anne, town house that the tub surrouund on the top floor was rotting out. The proud owner wanted a little chaulk, some regrouting, and a quick fix. My bid to repair was much more extensive.
  Land prices for commercial, even residential, are exceedingly high. In order to get anything done you have to cut costs. Our municipal government is now rubber stamping Green Built crap. Green Built means less construction with more insulation. In the mean time they turn the screws on earth quake retrofitting to make new construction, of crap, a better option for low life developers.
  It’s the City Council who has been in place doing the same sell out legislation for who ever they think will give them a contribution. We need to get all of them out of office but it’s impossible. The voters just don’t care about this city. Richard Conlin is the perfect example. Many people worked very hard to get him unseated in the last election. His problems are too numerous to recount, yet he won another term.
  What I say is that Seattle is building tomorrow’s slums today. We are in fact building Seattle’s viability today. It looks a little tacky, but high end, high quality, luxury is at bargain prices.

• 53 WestSideBilly // Sep 5, 2008 at 10:02 am

  shawn @ 37:

  I don’t think any city police forces “investigate” car break-ins. Both of my previous break-ins (elsewhere) consisted of a phone call to the non-emergency line, a transfer to a car theft #, telling them some info over the phone, and they give me a report # to give to my insurance company.

• 54 Markor // Sep 5, 2008 at 12:39 pm

  softwareengineer: Suddenly the 2nd party had a “pit-bull” mom that came right up to me and screamed in my face, “That’s my taxi, we got here first, you get the Prius.” I told her, “This is America, I got this taxi first and that’s that”. Her face was red and she looked like she was going to punch me; but we got in the 2nd taxi and drove off.

  Entertaining! I like denying Me!Me!Me! people. I’ve noticed more people cutting in lines, esp. when they can outflank it (e.g. line goes to the right, so they come in from the left and pretend the line doesn’t exist). I wave my hand and say “Nope! We were here first!”. The line-cutters get so offended.

  CA is the worst I’ve seen. A family even tried to take our restaurant table when our name was called. They had just come in and lots of people were waiting, so it was no mistake.

• 55 mark // Sep 5, 2008 at 12:46 pm

  Great topic. Couple of comments.

  The increased bad behavior people have noticed is caused by working longer and longer hours and always being a couple of paychecks away from bankruptcy. Employers keep squeezing for more work. The wife works just to pay for the day care. Traffic is really no different than it was 20 years ago, but the burdens on people’s lives makes it seem intolerable.

  This blog is a great solution. More people need to realize the dream of consumerism is really a trap that ruins your happiness. You get some house, SUV or electronic gizmo, but really you’re trapping yourself in a job to pay the debt. People who rent and/or live within their means can tell that demanding boss to “take this job and shove it”, and go take the summer off and enjoy life.

  Now for a comparison of the rudeness. To take advantage of the dot-com madness, I lived in San Francisco for 3 years and San Diego for 3 years. On the SF freeways you will see an act of road rage every 5 minutes. If you drive less than 80 miles per hour, even in the right lane, you will be a frequent target of that rage. In San Diego, listen to the person who wrote LA “has the most most obnoxious, self absorbed, vapid, moronic people I ever wish to encounter.” It’s true. The one and only topic of conversation there is my workout, my diet, my house, my car, my, my, my…

  When it was time to come back to Seattle I almost kissed the ground.

• 56 Ira Sacharoff // Sep 5, 2008 at 1:00 pm

  “We used to watch Norm Rice SLEEP during city council meetings back in the early 1980’s…”

  At least he wasn’t awake to do damage. We could only wish Greg Nickels slept through meetings.

• 57 BlackWater // Sep 6, 2008 at 7:43 pm

  Hold on. Seattle has NEVER been a pretty city as far as cities go. Vancouver, BC is outrageously nice. Seattle has always been, rather, well. Drab. Drab architecture, drab skyline, drab SFHs. Its been a working class, blue color port and it has been proud of that heritage. Kindly, yes. Cosmopolitan? No. And as far as its geography / topography — it has serious problems. Much in the way the Bay Area has the bay and bridges as an albatross around its neck. Sure, its lovely for photos. But it’s HELL for commuting. And ultimately bad for business as commuter lose precious productivity time and in turn corporate profits and ultimately city and county TAXES.

  Consider the population increase in Seattle over the past 20 years? Might THAT have something to do with the issue? Consider the lack of infrastructure spending, population density, city planning, zoning, etc. THAT has made Seattle harder to get around, that has made liveability take a nose dive. Blaming “greed” and condos is totally absurd. If anything, those condos could be Seattle’s salvation as they help encourage people TO LIVE CLOSER TOGETHER!! That in turn increases local services which EMPLOY PEOPLE and those people SPEND LOCALLY and PAY TAXES and RIDE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION which REMOVES OIL DEPENDENCY and enables people to REINVEST IN THEIR FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES. Which then INCREASES CITY TAX REVENUE. And on and on and on. Suburbs –only– benefit developers, freeway construction companies, car salesmen and oil companies. And the benefits are short-lived. That’s why there is sprawl. They have to keep moving on to the next greenfield to demolish whereas in the population dense scenario you can simply BUILD UP.

  Take a look at Seattle’s ove- reliance on the military spending and you can see its impact on political imagination, on growth strategies, moronic zoning laws, etc. All you need to do is drive down to Portland and see how the urban growth boundary has created a VASTLY more logical, liveable downtown environment by comparison. Portland has seen numerous condos go up. Do people whine about how PDX has become “rude” due to condo dwellers? Of course not.

  Seattle by contrast is broken. It is divided and conquered by its own sprawl and lack of political will. Its own self absorption that has kept important legislation from passing that would’ve helped reduce sprawl, reduce traffic and beautified the city in the process.

  BOTH LA and Seattle suffer from a sprawl, traffic congestion and lack of urban planning that is LEGENDARY. And now you get to live with the consequences of NO FORESIGHT, RIGHT WING POLITICS and NO POLITICAL WILL. Whining about condos and the wealth effect of the housing bubble is weasly cry-babying.

• 58 k2000k // Sep 8, 2008 at 8:31 am

  Right wing politics? Seattle? I rofled on that one. What seperates Portland from Seattle is intelligent planning. You can’t force people to live downtown no matter how hard you try; you have to try and persuade, and you do that by smart building. Before I actually lived in the city I thought I would hate it, but after spending a few years in it, I realized that once you get past the noise the proximity of living near your work and your entertainment is very compelling.

• 59 DaveG // Sep 8, 2008 at 10:26 am

  I grew up near Seattle but have lived in Portland for the last decade. I’m not bragging because it doesn’t have anything to do with me, but in Portland people talk about how “not to turn into Seattle.”

• 60 explorer // Sep 8, 2008 at 12:18 pm

  Lots of good, astute comments here. What no one has mentioned is that there ARE still people here who have a clue, but greed has won out:

  http://www.livableseattlemovement.org/

  The result you see today is definately due to the political structure here. Very bad and obvious mistakes were made, especially in Transportation and Planning. This was avoidable, and the mistakes in logic were pointed out at the time. Greed won. Those who profited could care less. Ballard is a shell of its former self, a wannabe suburb with an increasing monoculture that only puts lipstick on a pig.

  I lived in LA for the entire decade of the 80’s, before moving here. In the 80’s LA was the place to be. In the 90’s Seattle was the place to be. In this decade, Austin is happening. Seattle is still not a bad as other places, but you have to go outside of the PNW to see the contrasts.

  As far as Portland, the grass there is not necessarily greener. I know lot’s of people who fled there from here, who ended up coming back in a year or two.

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