Here is your open thread for the weekend beginning Friday October 9th, 2009. You may post random links and off-topic discussions here. Also, if you have an idea or a topic you’d like to see covered in an article, please make it known.
Be sure to also check out the forums, and get your word in the user-driven discussions there!
Trigger » Oct 9, 2009 at 3:50 am
Wait. Why not get Bernake the Noble prize? We need to honor everybody. They all think positive and are good people overall. So we should extend Noble prizes to all people, all good people.
Trigger » Oct 9, 2009 at 6:37 am
Also – since there are lots of good posters on Seattlebubble (and it is a reality) – then is there a possibility to nominate some of the posters for Noble prize? Ofcourse they would have to prove that they also have good intentions and wish everybody very well and are trying to think how America can get rid of the crisis. So based on that they would get the Noble prize.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 7:26 am
RE: Trigger @ 1 – via Wikipedia:
I understand the deadline for 2009 nominations was February 1st. Are you suggesting that after 12 days in office Barack Obama had not already done more and better work for world peace than every one of the other roughly 200 nominees?
Clearly you sir are a racist.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 7:58 am
In other news, I just found out this morning that I have received the Pulitzer Prize for History based on a couple pages of handwritten notes I sketched up for a book I hope to write someday on the history of the housing bubble.
AMS » Oct 9, 2009 at 8:10 am
RE: The Tim @ 3 – And I thought you were kidding about Obama…
Sniglet » Oct 9, 2009 at 8:30 am
I have posted another episode of the Optimistic Bear economic round-table podcasts.
This week I talk with Jeremy about growing problems with reverse mortgages, and how to make head or tails of the inflation/deflation debate when each side claims the Federal Reserve is doing different things with the money supply. We also talk discuss about the societal, and career, pressures to just “play along” that many people faced during the bubble years.
http://bit.ly/NlTjn
Seperately, I have also posted two podcasts in my “Anatomy of a job search” series, where I interview fellow job-seekers about their search strategy and brainstorm ways to improve their effectiveness.
http://bit.ly/29Zgoj
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 9:07 am
By The Tim @ 3:
I consider this news extremely funny due to the deadline for nomination being two weeks after nomination. Bush was widely regarded as a warmonger, but Obama wins the Nobel Peace Prize by continuing the same policies (e.g. drone attacks in Pakistan). I wonder how he beat out Gov. Sanford of SC?
Trigger » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:26 am
RE: The Tim @ 3 – I am not saying that Obama is a bad person. Just that he is at the beginning of the road. I would like to see more of what he actually does accomplish. So 12 days in the office – it is great. Great stuff etc. Good people and good times. But just normally I would like to see sb actually accomplish real tangible things. 12 days in the office is cool but does not allow a candidate to do much.
Ofcourse we can say – hey if you say this then you are a racist. And then if you disagree with anything concerning a black person then you are a racist. But the reality a lot of people welcome change that Obama took the office. Just that I would wait a couple of years before giving a noble prize.
But maybe if the noble prize says – hey – if you have good intentions and are a good person potentially and you want to accomplish great things then you should be awarded a noble prize based on the fact that society wants to encourage you etc.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:30 am
By Trigger @ 8:
That’s pretty much exactly what Alfred Nobel described in his will, isn’t it?
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:35 am
RE: The Tim @ 9 – I think that’s referring to actual benefit, not intended benefit.
Thinking about this further, the two week things is really off base. I’m not sure when they actually decided, but I think it could include all of Obama’s accomplishments since taking office. The only thing is, I can’t really think of much he’s accomplished other than stop the Europe missile defense and have direct talks with Iran.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:36 am
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 – I guess I’m being too subtle. All of my above comments are 100% over-the-top sarcastic.
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:42 am
I like the use of emoticons for that. Sarcasm is too hard to get from print.
One Eyed Man » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:50 am
RE: The Tim @ 4 –
I’m pretty sure you have the Audacity to win a Pulitzer and I’m not just being sarcastic. Now you just need to work on the Hope. ;-) And right or wrong, it never hurts to have a couple billion people around the world buy in to the hype.
But don’t forget, you’ll need a catchy title that has enough mystery and ambiguity to make people curious, like maybe “The Bubble of Hope©,” or “The Vacuole of Hope©,” or “The Chocolate Box Vacuole© or my personal favorite, “The Sphincter of Hope©.”
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You’ll be receiving our monthly flyer and item of value in the mail soon. This months item of value is a prophylactic with our phone number and a picture of the pirate on the tip. I guaranty your wife will never forget us. It’s just good advertising. Nobody forgets the Pirate. So call the PIrate and be protected in your next deal. And don’t forget our slogan: “You can trust the Pirates, we’re members of NArrrrrrrrrrr.
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patient » Oct 9, 2009 at 10:58 am
RE: The Tim @ 11 – I think you might be a bit to sensitive about the Nobel prize. It’s common that the prizes are awarded for a long history of groundbreaking achievements but it can also be a first time break through. I guess some years you can have a handful of potential recipients that are more worthy than the single nominee while other years nothing great has been achieved and then it’s not obvious if you are to give the prize to the lesser achievements or another years more worthy runner up and so on. It’s also not the first time the peace prize is given as a “carrot” to encourage good behaviour. The peace prize is as much (or more) of a political tool as it is a prize. The hope is that a winner will honor the legacy of being a peace prize winner. I’m pretty sure that Alfred wouldn’t object, the main goal of these prices is to promote future achievements and to give it to people with the most ability to change the world is not a bad idea.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:02 am
RE: patient @ 14 – Who’s sensitive? I think it’s hilarious.
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:13 am
Good news! The Chinese will soon be supplying basic transportation vehicles to the US Military! ;-)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33243531/ns/business-autos/
patient » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:13 am
RE: The Tim @ 15 – Sorry, then I’ll swap sensitive to sarcastic since imo the reasoning seems to be inline with the objectives. I wounded tiger is a dangerous tiger and the US is seriously wounded but still a tiger in military abilities. To encourage a peaceful strategy on the road to healing is probably a good idea. War is not an uncommon result of great economic turmoil. The 2nd WW buildup lended a lot of fuel from the depression. The US entry also marked the end of the US depression in 1941. So context is important.
Scotsman » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:16 am
Let’s not stop now- here’s your chance to nominate Obama for the Heisman trophy!
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Next-help-Obama-win-the-Heisman-63851657.html#
Some think he should have gotten an academy award- look at the set in the above link!
F’ it. Let’s shoot for the top: GOD!! (Or is that Satan?)
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:46 am
RE: Scotsman @ 18 – That reminds me of a joke I think Leno did on Roman Polanski (sp?). He was shocked that people were supporting him because he made some good movies 30 years ago.
He went on to say, not even Johnnie Cochran had the guts to argue: “But did you see OJ play against New England?”
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 11:51 am
RE: Scotsman @ 18 – BTW, let’s not forget that there’s also a Nobel prize for economics. I think we have a new front-runner. ;-)
patient » Oct 9, 2009 at 12:23 pm
The stability of the inventory as tracked by The Tim’s housing tracker this year never stops to surprise me. Just when you think that perhaps it will break out and go lower it picks up steam again. We’re again close to 10k units. It’s pretty remarkable in how narrow band around 10k it has moved this year.
Trigger » Oct 9, 2009 at 12:28 pm
That’s why if the rules have changed for the Noble prize I think there are many deserving individuals that should get this Noble prize. I think Tim – you should post a poll on Seattlebubble which realtor and which poster most deserves a Noble Prize.
One Eyed Man » Oct 9, 2009 at 12:34 pm
And the Oscar goes to . . . . . . .
Barack Obama for best actor in a documentary.
No one reads the prompter like the Bama. He had me at “Hello.”
Don’t forget, he’s already got a Grammy and an Emmy to go with Person of the Year:
“Obama won Best Spoken Word Album Grammy Awards for abridged audiobook versions of Dreams from My Father in February 2006 and for The Audacity of Hope in February 2008.[220] His “Yes We Can” speech, which artists independently set to music, was viewed by 10 million people on YouTube in the first month,[221] and received a Daytime Emmy Award.[222] In December 2008, Time magazine named Barack Obama as its Person of the Year for his historic candidacy and election, which it described as “the steady march of seemingly impossible accomplishments”.[223]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
And you thought all he could do was lead the free world.
Ross » Oct 9, 2009 at 12:45 pm
RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16 –
The article seems to say otherwise:
“The military H2 version will continue to be assembled by AM General in Mishawaka, Ind., under the same terms.
South Bend, Ind.-based AM General retains ownership of the military versions of the vehicles, which have been used frequently in Afghanistan and Iraq. “
B&W Nikes » Oct 9, 2009 at 1:09 pm
When, even since the award was conceived, has there ever been peace? It should be called a prize for near-peace, or not destroying the world entirely. Whether or not it is *deserved* I will say it is a nice change that foreign bodies give our bomber in chief a prize instead of mere applause for ducking flying shoes.
Scotsman » Oct 9, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Credit to: Tommy De Seno–
“President Obama has broken new ground here. Nominations for potential winners of the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize ended on February 1. The president took office only 12 days earlier on January 20.
Let’s take a look at the president’s first 12 days in the White House according to his public schedule to see what he did to deserve a Nobel Peace Prize:
January 20: Sworn in as president. Went to a parade. Partied.
January 21: Asked bureaucrats to re-write guidelines for information requests. Held an “open house” party at the White House.
January 22: Signed Executive Orders: Executive Branch workers to take ethics pledge; re-affirmed Army Field Manual techniques for interrogations; expressed desire to close Gitmo (how’s that working out?)
January 23: Ordered the release of federal funding to pay for abortions in foreign countries. Lunch with Joe Biden; met with Tim Geithner.
January 24: Budget meeting with economic team.
January 25: Skipped church.
January 26: Gave speech about jobs and energy. Met with Hillary Clinton. Attended Geithner’s swearing in ceremony.
January 27: Met with Republicans. Spoke at a clock tower in Ohio.
January 28: Economic meetings in the morning, met with Defense secretary in the afternoon.
January 29: Signed Ledbetter Bill overturning Supreme Court decision on lawsuits over wages. Party in the State Room. Met with Biden.
January 30: Met economic advisers. Gave speech on Middle Class Working Families Task Force. Met with senior enlisted military officials.
January 31: Took the day off.
February 1: Skipped church. Threw a Super Bowl party.
So there you have it. The short path to the Nobel Peace Prize: Party, go to meetings, skip church, release federal funding to pay for abortions in foreign countries, party some more.”
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 9, 2009 at 1:54 pm
RE: Ross @ 24 – Oh, good. I’m glad I got that one wrong.
It seemed odd that you could pick up a company with a major military contract for $150,000,000.
Jbeans » Oct 9, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Methinks the greatest thing he’s done thus far to promote peace is to get the previous warmongers out of the White House and deny the neocons the opportunity to further their causes of divisiveness, world domination, and hatriotism.
Of course, he does tend to make certain conservatives’ heads explode regularly. Which may or may not be good for world peace in the long run, but is kind of fun to watch.
softwarengineer » Oct 9, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I Think I Agree With Kary
The two Dem/Rep wings on the same Middle East war turkey don’t make one a peace lover and the other a war monger.
Perhaps Obama may have toned it down a small bit compared to Bush, but I haven’t heard of any plan to pull troops out of Afghanistan yet.
I think we should bring the troops home and protect our monstrous borders and the two open oceans on both sides of us….that’s how the Twin Towers got blown up, let’s face it.
Europe has a definite security advantage over America….its borders are much smaller per country and very few of the countries are surrounded by water. When you go to most of Europe and visit multiple countries, there’s always masses of armed guards and dogs to greet you at each border….LOL….no wonder their plan is 33% depopulation by 2050, they can do it.
Scotsman » Oct 9, 2009 at 2:51 pm
RE: One Eyed Man @ 23 –
Peaked too early. Nowhere to go but down…
Ira Sacharoff » Oct 9, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Henry Effin Kissinger won the Nobel Pize for peace, after engineering the bombing the beejezus out of Vietnam.
This sure ain’t the first questionable pick.
Angie » Oct 9, 2009 at 5:04 pm
I look at the award this way–this is an acknowledgement of the sea change in the regard in which the US is held *around the world* as a result of the man’s approach to governance–as if everyone actually mattered.
To Obama’s immense credit he has continued to try to make good on this promise, to be inclusive and bipartisan, to acknowledge the legitimate grievances of the Republicans, even in the face of incredible stupidity and ugliness. The honor bestowed on him and the inane reaction from his opponents only serves to delegitimize the far right further, in the eyes of fellow Americans and people worldwide.
The Tim » Oct 9, 2009 at 8:55 pm
By Angie @ 32:
I’m not sure what reaction you’re talking about exactly. I listened to talk radio a good portion of the afternoon today and most of what I heard was just amusement and shock. Mostly amusement, since I get the impression that to most serious observers the Nobel Peace Prize lost any serious weight or meaning decades ago.
Despite what you seem to want to believe, shock was indeed most people’s reaction upon hearing the news. Watch the original announcement from this morning (in Norwegian) and listen to the reaction of the world press in the room. Their shocked gasps are so loud the guy reading the announcement has to raise his voice!
Then there’s this story from that bastion of stupid and ugy far right, the BBC:
Or hit up the comments over on this morning’s Slashdot post on the topic. Slashdot readers are pretty left-leaning, and yet the vast majority of the +5 moderated comments are critical of the bizarre choice.
Your claim that only the “far right” thought this was a stupid choice by the Nobel Peace Prize committee is demonstrably false. Sorry.
Scotsman » Oct 10, 2009 at 1:22 am
RE: Angie @ 32 –
Oh come on, Angie- public opinion is running 2:1 against even on MSNBC. Give me a break.
http://www.stealthfusion.com/forum/big-government/6791-msnbc-poll-61-7-obama-does-not-deserve-peace-prize-vote-now.html
Trigger » Oct 10, 2009 at 1:57 am
RE: softwarengineer @ 29 – SoftwareEngineer – the European borders are basically left unguarded. It is as if you told the border guards to stop guarding US-Canada border because it looks ok.
Try going to Budapest and then drive to Paris then to Madrid and then back to Warsaw or Prague. You will not be stopped once even. They will not even ask you for your passport. If you were a terrorist you would be ok to just move around without issues.
So basically European borders do not exist at all. There are no border controls on EU internal borders. Sometimes in new countries like Poland or Hungary you still see old empty booths where the border existed but in old countries you do not even see that.
So I think you would get scared if the US suddenly called of all border patrols from US-Canada and US-Mexico border and told all Canadians and Mexicans that now they are free to come in and go as they please and find jobs here in the US. And you would be even more scared if the US congress put into law where a US employer cannot discriminate Mexican and Canadian workers.
VermillionSky » Oct 10, 2009 at 6:08 am
By Angie @ 32:
I don’t necessarily agree that worldwide opinions of the US have changed dramatically since President Obama came into office. Perceptions of our country are based on a variety of cultural and political influences, and election of a president, even President Obama will not easily change those perceptions. However, even if that were the case, giving him an award like this before he has had any time to accomplish anything will not help our standing worldwide. I think it will only contribute to the perception that the US has an oversized sense of entitlement. Here’s an example of what I mean. One of my Venezuelan friends changed his facebook profile picture yesterday to a picture of President Obama with the caption “Do nothing, win a Nobel Prize.” He was pretty disgusted by it. Anecdotes like these do not equal data, but I really don’t see most people around the world approving of this gesture.
Ira Sacharoff » Oct 10, 2009 at 8:11 am
Obama himself said that he didn’t deserve the prize. I suppose if it gives him inspiration to show that he earned it, okay, but they don’t usually give someone an academy award before the movie’s finished filming, and I say this as someone who feels no venom toward Obama. I voted for him and wish him well.
But some of that alcohol in Oslo is pretty strong…
David Losh » Oct 10, 2009 at 8:37 am
RE: The Tim @ 33 –
bizarre choice
In debates with John McCain Obama pressed ahead with ideas like talking to foreign leaders, even from Iran. Obama promised to get us out of Iraq and said our mission in Afghanistan was to find and kill Osama bin Laden. John McCain pointed out the naiveté of such remarks. Some branded those remarks as dangerous to the United States.
We are forgetting the debate that got Obama elected. He took a huge risk by promoting the idea that we are a part of a larger community than just our Allies. That debate was by far the most compelling reason to nominate Obama, but for him to actually be elected with talk like that?
Scotsman » Oct 11, 2009 at 1:29 am
The depression is here- we just don’t recognize it yet. Go to this link and scroll down to the middle of the page and the white “Report From The Center On Budget And Policy Priorities” Again, half way down that page you will find a state-by-state list of the budget shortfalls faced by the 50 states:
http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/10/three-washington-state-stories-reflect.html
When economic activity drops, state tax revenues also fall, typically in fairly direct proportion. A quick glance shows most states facing budget shortfalls of around 12-15%. Generally, a contraction of 10% is considered a depression. Are we looking at the depression of 2010?
DadTimesTwo » Oct 11, 2009 at 2:26 am
Obama was remarkably humble when he received the Noble Prize. I’m not sure if he deserves it, but his mere election helped restore some semblance of hope in the international community that the United States could be more than the eight years of Bush’s graceless foreign policy.
Interesting sarcasm about Obama, The Tim, especially with regard to race. I love this blog, but I gotta say that your sarcasm just feels disrespectful to a man who’d be the last to say that any criticism thrown his way has anything to do with skin color. Your sarcasm just ends up trivializing an issue that impacts a lot of people. I’m sure that’s not what you mean to do.
truthtold » Oct 11, 2009 at 10:26 am
o = rhetorical bore. no sarcasm intended.
AMS » Oct 11, 2009 at 10:48 am
RE: Scotsman @ 39 – What happened to our 1930s WSJ news reports?
One Eyed Man » Oct 11, 2009 at 1:19 pm
RE: DadTimesTwo @ 40 –
I, like The Tim, am amused at the choice of Obama for the Peace Prize, but probably for somewhat different reasons. I think that in today’s world, Obama was a good choice for the prize for reasons I will articulate in limited detail to avoid needlessly boring everyone. But I’m both saddened and amused by the fact that the bar for consideration in the form of the actions of world leaders has been set so low that one who many say has as yet only “talked the talk,” would be judged to have accomplished the most to further the cause of “peace.” If the bar gets set much lower, they’ll have to start doing the limbo to pick the winner or everyone who hasn’t needlessly shot somebody will have to be considered a candidate. I hate to make the grounds for consideration so unnecessarily difficult, but you have to set some standards to rule out awarding the prize to Dick Cheney.
In my opinion the battle for peace is only minimally about Ahmadinegad and Obama. It’s really about the generation of 10 yr old children that will be in their shoes in 30 years. Lasting peace comes through trust, respect and a shared and interdependent economic future, not just through military victory. You don’t win the hearts and minds of a generation by denying justice, human rights or a reasonable livelihood to their parents and families. Trust can take years to build, but only a minimal amount of collateral damage to destroy. Peace hopefully can be accomplished through discussion, mutual trust and cooperation without the need for domination and intimidation. There may be a form of peace when only one is left standing, but I don’t think that’s what the Peace Prize is ment to embody. If you say that I’m unreasonably idealistic and impractical, you may be right. But if you believe that speaking softly has no place and peace comes only by wielding a big stick, you’ve already lost the moral high ground where human rights and respect take precedence over preemptive strikes and overwhelming force.
In my opinion the hope spawned by Obama that the most powerful nation in the world will occupy the high ground in the eyes of the rest of the world is the underlying reason that the Nobel Committee chose Obama. Peace is founded on trust, and upon the hope and courage to risk the disappointment of that trust. I’ve never read “The Audacity of Hope,” but the concept that phrase embodies is part of the underly basis of any peace not grounded in domination or intimidation.
Trigger » Oct 11, 2009 at 1:43 pm
RE: One Eyed Man @ 43 –
Exactly. Hope and Good intentions in today’s world = Noble Prize.
Maybe in 20 years time:
If you kill less than 100 people in a year = Noble Peace Prize
It all depends on the standards….
Kary L. Krismer » Oct 11, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I wonder if they gave him the award to try to influence his upcoming decision on what to do in Afghanistan?
Scotsman » Oct 11, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Kindergarten is over. Time to move on.
When folks are out to kill me I’m all for negotiating, especially when my gun is bigger than theirs. Odd thing is, that’s when they are most amenable to a “peaceful” solution.
Only a fool thinks they can win the game playing by the rules when the other side doesn’t even know the rules exist. We’ve got a bit of a mis-match in the cultural mash-up here…
Scotsman » Oct 11, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Only the FED is buying? Heh,heh…
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-who-bought-us-government-deb-2009-10
b » Oct 11, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Interesting piece about the huge numbers of unemployed recent grads and other young people: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_42/b4151032038302.htm
This recession will be setting these kids behind several years in their ability to buy a home, hampering demand in coming years.
mikal » Oct 11, 2009 at 9:03 pm
RE: Scotsman @ 46 – I agree. But all they want is to kill Americans. It is a whole lot easier when they are across the street. Drones can take care of any real problems. Declare victory and bring them home. If we currently are not funding them with our aid to Pakistan why is it such a big deal to monitor where the money is going?
Scotsman » Oct 11, 2009 at 9:38 pm
RE: mikal @ 49 –
I think they want to kill anyone who isn’t a Muslim, well, at least one sub-set does. So the problem is a bit larger than just waiting for them to cross the street. But I agree there might be some better ways to go about the whole thing.
One Eyed Man » Oct 11, 2009 at 10:21 pm
By Scotsman @ 46:
If there’s one thing our leaders did get right in Vietnam, it’s that the real battle is for peoples hearts and minds. The winning of the aliance with certain Iraqi leaders known as the Anbar awakening was probably more responsible for the increased success in Iraq than the Surge. It may be too late to change Osama’s view of the west, but the children of the world is where the war for peoples hearts and minds is waged. As pathetic as it may be, the youth of the world love McDonalds, Mickey Mouse and MTV. American culture is pervasive in todays world and if not checked by our own restraints on relations will permeate the societies of the middle east. The growing relationship will have a reasonable likelihood of promoting peace if we don’t poison the well with actions spawning hatred.
In my lifetime, people including my father wanted to use nuclear weapons against China and Vietnam. In the last 30 years, increased cultural interaction and economic exchange with China and Vietnam have manage to form a growing peace that our military couldn’t achieve. You’ve got to give Nixon credit for that. As painful as it might be to acknowledge that Dick significantly changed world history for the better, he has to be given credit for opening relations with China.
While it’s probably true that the cultural issues that separate the radical Islamic world from ours are more deeply ingrained than those that existed with respect to Vietnam and China, the vast majority of the Islamic world is moderate and doesn’t view us as the great satan preached by Osama. And every kid who dreams of going to Disneyland or playin guitar on the MTV is one less kid who want to be a martyr.
I don’t ask or hope that America will relinquish the big stick. Only that when ever possible we peacefully increase our interaction with our potential enemies and create important economic ties to the those we might fear or who might fear us. Even the frightened animal usually learns that it’s foolish to bite the hand that feeds them.
Scotsman » Oct 11, 2009 at 10:57 pm
“the children of the world is where the war for peoples hearts and minds is waged”
True, but unfortunately many of those hearts and minds have already been won…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU
I’m all for keeping the door open, but fear too many fail to understand, through naiveté or willful denial, the true scope of the problem. Nuclear? Hopefully no. But it will take more than “hopes and dreams” and a leader who can at best muster a vote of “present” to turn this around. I wish it was otherwise. But first and foremost I want my children to have the chance to experience all that their lives can offer.