Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

60 responses to “Case-Shiller: Flat is the New Up”

  1. David McManus

    Hmmm, didn’t we say this was going to happen???

    “Home Prices Edge Down as Tax Credit Fails to Lift Market”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/37332980

    So all that money spent on this stupid credit……for nothing!

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  2. Dave0

    RE: David McManus @ 1 – imagine how much worse it would have been if the credit wasn’t there. I think the intention of the credit was to create a soft-landing, which it did.

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  3. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David McManus @ 1 – You remind me of the Republicans that claim that the stimulus didn’t create any jobs by pointing to the fact that unemployment went up.

    It is possible that things could have been “worse” than they are without government intervention. We’ll never know. But it’s virtually certain that the intervention had some effect. Whether it was worth it or not is an entirely separate issue.

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  4. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Dave0 @ 2 – Beyond that, it also helped in areas beyond the price of houses. Companies like Home Depot and their suppliers benefited, helping with employment in those areas.

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  5. David McManus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 3 – Kary, I’ll contend that we just delayed when we’ll go off the cliff. Since when are declining home values a bad thing???? It is my contention that home values are simply resetting to what they’re really worth, but for some reason the government and society have bought into the myth that any decrease in value is a tragedy and needs immediate government intervention. When the median price of a home is almost 400K, yet the median income is 50K, something is fundamentally wrong.

    If the stimulus created jobs, then why the hell is everyone so concerned about their job??? Obama said unemployment will be below 8% if the stimulus was passed. When is that supposed to happen? 2016?!? I don’t consider government jobs being the same as private sector jobs, but that’s for another thread.

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  6. David McManus

    Oh, and here’s this little nugget of info:

    “Paychecks from private business shrank to their smallest share of personal income in U.S. history during the first quarter of this year, a USA TODAY analysis of government data finds.

    At the same time, government-provided benefits — from Social Security, unemployment insurance, food stamps and other programs — rose to a record high during the first three months of 2010.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-05-24-income-shifts-from-private-sector_N.htm

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  7. Kary L. Krismer

    By David McManus @ 5:

    Since when are declining home values a bad thing????

    That’s why I put “worse” in quotes above. Not everyone thinks lower prices is a bad thing.

    By David McManus @ 5:

    If the stimulus created jobs, then why the hell is everyone so concerned about their job??? Obama said unemployment will be below 8% if the stimulus was passed. When is that supposed to happen? 2016?!?

    Yep, you do remind me of the Republicans. The simple fact is that President Obama was wrong or even stupid in making his predictions. But to try to claim that the stimulus had no effect on employment is just as wrong and/or stupid. Just political talking points for the extremely partisan .

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  8. David McManus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 – What is partisan is someone who sees the economy falling apart, but continues to stick their fingers in their ears and say everything is fine, we’re in recovery. Just curious, but when is Obama going to start taking responsibility for the economy instead of just continuing to point fingers?

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  9. David McManus

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 – Then cite your figures. Show me the figures that prove that the stimulus helped the economy. Certainly you must have some metric that you can use to prove this.

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  10. David Losh

    The tax credit did lift prices about 4% there for awhile, but pricing will start to go down from here.

    Yes, the stimulus worked, but the tax credit only created a bunch of mortgages at inflated prices. As the price of housing units continues to decline, more, and more people will be disappointed with the choice they made to buy at these historically low interest rates. It only means they will be paying longer.

    Let’s say the market was such that people moved every 7 years. A higher rate, people can live with, hey, it’s only 7 years on an appreciating asset, you’re making money. A lower rate, on a declining asset price, an asset you can’t sell for what you paid, and you are paying longer.

    Help me on the math with that one. Paying longer on a declining asset price, or paying shorter on an appreciating asset.

    The second part about that is the jobs. Fewer Real Estate turns means fewer agents, escrow, and title. The mortgages just keep getting better and better because you bank teller can now make you a home loan.

    The question I have for Kary, is what will pay more the next ten years, being a bankruptcy attorney, or a Real Estate agent?

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  11. Dave0

    RE: David McManus @ 8 – No single politician can be blamed for the state of the economy; the economy is a much larger force than that. The state of the economy is the result of many parties making bad decisions for decades: banks making bad loans, individuals buying homes they can’t afford, institutions buying MBS’s ignoring the possibility of real estate declining, as well as the government creating more and more incentives to buy real estate. This is way bigger than Obama’s decisions and he shouldn’t have to take responsibility.

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  12. Dave0

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 7:

    By David McManus @ 5:
    Since when are declining home values a bad thing????

    That’s why I put “worse” in quotes above. Not everyone thinks lower prices is a bad thing.
    .

    While I agree with David that the media has been portraying any decline in home prices is a bad thing, I think the truth is high volatility in real estate, up or down, is a bad thing. A YOY change of 10% in either direction is bad, creating an unstable economy. In that sense the tax credit was a very good thing, in that it reduced the volatility and stabilized the market.

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  13. David Losh

    RE: The Tim @ 10

    Government intervention is directly related to the Case Schiller data. Look at the curve in the top chart. The tax credit was just one peice of the over all TARP/Stimulus package.

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  14. David McManus

    RE: Dave0 @ 13 – I can agree with that to an extent. However, by that logic, there should have been a program put in place in 2005-2007 when there double-digit appreciation. I can’t recall any real estate folks demanding that something be done about those out of control home prices during that period. It was only when they started to decrease.

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  15. Dave0

    By David McManus @ 15:

    RE: Dave0 @ 13 – there should have been a program put in place in 2005-2007 when there double-digit appreciation.

    Agreed. The fact that there was no program like that put in place was a major mistake by everyone involved. If there were such a problem put in place it would have prevented this whole recession. Hindsight is 20/20, but let’s hope those with power can learn from their mistakes of this decade.

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  16. patient

    From the wakeup call of the dangers of sovereign debt from Europe coupled with that Barney Frank is trying to disassociate himself from the GSEs I have a feeling that there will be very little new support for the housing market from here on. I think finally we have reached a point where fiscal responsibility is moving up on the govs agenda. Together with the macro economic developments I think the housing cheerleaders can feel lucky if next years March c/s data is down 10%. This is not the bottom.

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  17. wreckingbull

    RE: Dave0 @ 2 – A soft landing, perhaps, but then what happens? 90% of new mortgages today are government financed through FHA, Fannie, and Freddie, all of which still have incredibly lax lending standards and are insolvent. Have we really landed? I don’t think so.

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  18. Dave0

    RE: wreckingbull @ 18 – No we haven’t landed yet, but the tax credit provided a parachute as we got pushed out of the plane. Hitting the ground, even with a parachute, is still very painful, but at least you don’t die on impact.

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  19. mark

    RE: David McManus @ 9
    If the Federal Government had a balanced budget there would be about $1.5 Trillion pulled from the economy!

    Imagine that, the economy reduced by another 10%! Full on Great Depression II. Just what the wingnuts want!

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  20. David McManus

    RE: mark @ 20 – I’m sorry, but perhaps we should look across the Atlantic to see what the future holds for cradle to grave welfare programs. Margaret Thatcher said it best: “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

    Here’s a great idea, why doesn’t my employer just direct deposit my paycheck into the U.S. Treasury and then they cut me a check for what they feel I deserve?

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  21. WestSeattleDave

    RE: Dave0 @ 19 – “Hitting the ground, even with a parachute, is still very painful…”

    Actually, having jumped out of an airplane many, many times, landing on the ground is much like hopping off a park bench. No pain is involved. Landing without the parachute on the other hand…

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  22. Dave0

    RE: WestSeattleDave @ 22 – oh ok. I’ve never parachuted myself, I was just going off what I’ve seen in movies, with people doing barrel rolls and/or collapsing on impact and such.

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  23. Lurker

    RE: wreckingbull @ 18

    See, they weren’t lying when they said the recovery would be a long slow one, were they?

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  24. softwarengineer

    Lipstick On the 2010 Pig Economy

    Flat line is good with concurrent horrifying bailout debt……???…..don’t ask a doctor in an ICU room if flatline is good.

    The future home pricing collapses in Seattle, documented with Tim’s charts, aren’t that its getting worse, compared to as bad as early 2009, but rather it got so bad then that just a flat line now is horrifying news.

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  25. D. in Ballard

    He’ll fit right in in Dallas. Good riddance.

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  26. One Eyed Man

    I’d like to believe that DaveO is right and the stimulus will help dampen the economic cycle and keep things from overshooting on the downside. As David M and DaveO have discussed, it would have been nice to have put the economy on lithium before the manic phase because arguably the manic phase exaccerbates the destruction of the depressed phase.

    The Tim, have you followed Piggington or any other sources recently to see how close San Diego and/or SoCal got to reaching the fundamental trend line based on price to income and price to rent before turning up the way they have? I haven’t, but I’m curious. My guess is that the upturn in California is largely just volitility in an insane market place, but its just such a huge bounce.

    I pulled up some articles for SoCal to see what’s going on with the increase in prices there but I haven’t read much of it. I won’t say I understand it and it would take a lot more time than I’m willing to devote to analyze, but there are a lot of interesting things going on there. For example, foreclosures were 54% of the market in Calif a year ago and are down to 38% now. Have foreclosuers there peaked, or is that going to go up again? And prices are flying in the Bay area. Rather than the tax credit causing lots of low end sales that would bring the median down, the Bay Area CS and the median are moved up in April.

    Maybe the increase all relates to the fact that the economic down turn hurts the middle and lower income people a lot more than the upper middle and high income people and once the fat cats feel a little confidence they start buying again.

    In the early 1990’s after the initial drop in the SoCal housing market, prices drifted down slowly for several years until about 1995 at about 25% down before turning up. The bounce in California is pretty strong right now. Maybe 2009 was the bottom in California? Scotsman often says he’s looking at Calif to see what will happen with fiscal catastrophie. I tend to believe that California often leads the way in both social and economic theatre of the absurd and at least at first glance, the upturn in Calif looks a little crazy right now.

    I don’t know why Calif is turning up, but if their housing market is turning into the international economic headwind, will we follow? And if so, how far behind?

    Here’s some of what the LA times said last week:

    “Foreclosures made up 38.1% of California’s resale market in April, down from 54.6% in April 2009 and an all-time high of 58.8% of the market in February 2009, DataQuick said.
    Some of the sluggish sales pace may be attributable to buyers delaying closings until May 1 or after to take advantage of a state tax credit of up to $10,000 for first-time buyers and those purchasing new homes.
    Any boost from buyers rushing to grab the expiring federal tax credit last month isn’t likely to be fully captured in April’s data, either, as many of those deals are likely to close this month or next.
    ‘Housing is recovering in California,” said Gerd-Ulf Krueger, principal economist and founder of HousingEcon.com. “There will be a bit of a slowdown once the tax incentives go away, but otherwise I don’t see any real reason for a major double dip in California.’
    The statewide data were in line with results for Southern California released earlier this week. On Tuesday, DataQuick reported that the Southland’s median price in April was $285,000, up 15.4% from the April 2009 bottom. The median price was unchanged from March.
    Southern California sales fell for the first time in 22 months, to 20,299 properties. That was down about 1% from April 2009 and from the previous month.
    In the San Francisco Bay Area, the median price was $370,000 for all homes sold in April, an increase of 21.7% from the same month in 2009 but down 2.6% from March. A total of 7,003 homes sold in the Bay Area last month, down 1.9% from April 2009 and a 0.2% increase from March.”

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/21/business/la-fi-home-sales-20100521

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  27. hoary

    Strange comments in this thread!

    I parsed residential sales data (from the KC assessor’s website). Backing out duplicative excise tax numbers here’s what I found for March COUNTYWIDE:

    March 2009 count: 1134
    March 2010 count: 1664

    March 2009 total value of res sales: $475M
    March 2010 total value of res sales: $755M

    March 2009 total SQ FT sold: 2.2M
    March 2010 count: 3.4M

    The purpose of the Obama stimulus was to stimulate aggregate demand. In 2005, there were 42,000 residential sales in KC, in 2009 there were 18,000. The hope of the stimulus was to help families who were desperate to sell their homes to be able to do so.

    As I said, pulled this data from KC assessors website. Tables used for RPSale and ResBldg.

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  28. Kary L. Krismer

    By David McManus @ 8:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 – What is partisan is someone who sees the economy falling apart, but continues to stick their fingers in their ears and say everything is fine, we’re in recovery. Just curious, but when is Obama going to start taking responsibility for the economy instead of just continuing to point fingers?

    You can believe the economy is falling apart. That’s not a problem. And Obama does point fingers. Thinking that is not a problem. What is a problem is saying that economic programs have no effect because the trend is still a “negative” direction. Those type of arguments are only persuasive to those who are extreme left or right.

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  29. Kary L. Krismer

    Deleted due to Tim’s comment at 10.

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  30. Kary L. Krismer

    By David McManus @ 15:

    RE: Dave0 @ 13 – I can agree with that to an extent. However, by that logic, there should have been a program put in place in 2005-2007 when there double-digit appreciation. I can’t recall any real estate folks demanding that something be done about those out of control home prices during that period. It was only when they started to decrease.

    The concern expressed was that the market could be overheating. I missed that locally by looking at YOY figures instead of month to month where in 2007 prices for a period were going up over 20% per annum. As it turned out that isn’t what changed our market, but instead a national event, but had that national event not occurred we were headed towards the same type price action as what Phonix and Los Vegas did.

    I agree with the prior comment that what is needed is a relatively stable market. Changes too far in either direction too quickly have adverse consequences outside of housing.

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  31. Kary L. Krismer

    By Dave0 @ 16:

    By David McManus @ 15:
    RE: Dave0 @ 13 – there should have been a program put in place in 2005-2007 when there double-digit appreciation.

    Agreed. The fact that there was no program like that put in place was a major mistake by everyone involved. If there were such a problem put in place it would have prevented this whole recession. Hindsight is 20/20, but let’s hope those with power can learn from their mistakes of this decade.

    We don’t have that power. Little of what has been done would prevent another market rise.

    My proposal has been to only allow financing at XX% of current value and YY% of the value 2 or 3 years prior. That would limit the rise in prices by cutting off financing for many.

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  32. Ira Sacharoff

    Detroit’s prices are falling faster than Seattle’s? Weren’t they dirt cheap anyway?
    Are they going to have to pay you to take a house in Detroit??
    But one very positive change, IMO, is that they’ve torn down buildings and are now farming that land. Maybe 40 years from now on what stands Kemper Freeman’s offices in Bellevue will be strawberry farms.

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  33. LA Relo

    Time and time again people argue over where prices should be, the impact interest rates have, what good or bad Gov’t stimulus has done, inventory levels, foreclosure rates, blah blah blah and so on.

    One thing matters: incomes. In reality nothing else matters.

    Short of negative interest rates or 6 figure tax rebates home prices have one direction to go and that is down.

    Why? Because incomes (forget unemployment) have been flat for a decade. Look at prices in 2000. Any rise since then has been artificial.

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  34. MacroInvestor

    RE: patient @ 17

    “I have a feeling that there will be very little new support for the housing market from here on.”

    The stimulus was timed to portray a growing economy and stable housing GOING INTO THE ELECTION. It’s too late now for more stimulus to be passed and work. So I agree with you that it will lose support.

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  35. One Eyed Man

    RE: LA Relo @ 34

    I agree that over time, markets should follow fundamentals, but I’m not sure that the housing market isn’t turning up in some areas despite the fundamentals. Just look at the SoCal market LA Relo. Its 10% off the bottom and turned up over a year ago. My recollection is that unemployment in Calif is still well over 10% but the markets in SF and SoCal have taken a huge bounce. It may not seem rational but its happening and its been happening for over a year.

    I don’t think that the following articles give the answer but here’s the best discussion I’ve found on the stall in falling prices in the national housing market. It’s from the May 5 NY Times and is also discussed by Chuck Ponzi on his blog. If your reading today, Thanks Chuck, I found it on your blog.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/what-it-really-a-bubble/?partner=rss&emc=rss

    http://www.socalbubble.com/2010/05/was-it-a-housing-bubble.html

    Here’s the link to the 2nd part of the LA Times article.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/was-there-good-reason-for-a-housing-boom/?scp=3&sq=Casey%20B%20Mulligan%20housing%20bubble&st=cse

    I don’t think the article gives a convincing argument for the bubble being based upon fundamentals, but the issues regarding technology made me think of something. Perhaps the advent of online listings at least temporarily increased housing demand by making it so easy to shop for houses. Everyone could shop for houses on their computer. The pain and time commitment of having to actually contact a real estate agent and go thru a listings book at their office was gone. You could shop for a house at work or on the sofa in your jammies. Maybe on line listings were like free home delivery by the local crack dealer. The brokerage industry referred to on line listings as a paradigm change and they were right. On line listings are probably at least partially responsible for the bubble.

    But what the heck is causing Calif to be up 10% when the fundamentals are so bad? It’s gotta be more than the feeble buyer’s tax credit.

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  36. wreckingbull

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 36The government is handing out 90% of today’s mortgages, and with ridiculously lax standards. That is having a far greater impact than the tax credit. This can’t last, as the books of Fannie, Freddie, and the FHA are showing.

    A 90% federal takeover of the residential lending industry. Let that sink in a bit.

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  37. David Losh

    You’re looking at a Home Price Index. What the heck is that? The reason I think the conversation about the economy is important is that we are discussing the Home Price Index. Is that some how tied to the stock market? How about mortgages? Are mortgages the basis of the stock market, or a by product of the stock derivative markets?

    It’s a Home Price Index that has pushed the price of housing. There is no such thing as an Index for Homes. It’s made up. It takes housing unit sales data and makes you believe there is a market place of homogeneous home pricing around the country.

    The closest comment to the point here is One Eyed Man thinking shopping for property on line made prices go up. It did. Comparing the price you pay to the “Index” made it all plausible.

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  38. Scott Weitz

    Beware of Inventory…its creeping up slowly – but surely.

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  39. patient

    By Scott Weitz @ 39:

    Beware of Inventory…its creeping up slowly – but surely.

    If The Tim’s inventory tracker is showing what is going on it’s more like exploding. We’ve added 1000s to the King Co. SFH inventory in the last two weeks according to the tracker. Either the tracker is broken or the banks have figured out that this is the time to try to get rid of the reos when the tax credit has done what it can with prices and before the second leg down gets real momentum.

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  40. DrShort

    By David McManus @ 9:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 – Then cite your figures. Show me the figures that prove that the stimulus helped the economy. Certainly you must have some metric that you can use to prove this.

    From the CBO:

    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/115xx/doc11525/05-25-ARRA.pdf

    On that basis, CBO estimates that in the first quarter of calendar year 2010, ARRA’s policies:

    + Raised the level of real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) by between 1.7 percent and 4.2 percent,
    + Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.5 percentage points
    + Increased the number of people employed by between 1.2 million and 2.8 million, and
    + Increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs by 1.8 million to 4.1 million compared with what those amounts would have been otherwise (see Table 1).

    The effects of ARRA on output and employment are expected to increase further during calendar year 2010 but then diminish in 2011 and fade away by the end of 2012.

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  41. DrShort

    By patient @ 40:

    By Scott Weitz @ 39:
    Beware of Inventory…its creeping up slowly – but surely.

    If The Tim’s inventory tracker is showing what is going on it’s more like exploding. We’ve added 1000s to the King Co. SFH inventory in the last two weeks according to the tracker. Either the tracker is broken or the banks have figured out that this is the time to try to get rid of the reos when the tax credit has done what it can with prices and before the second leg down gets real momentum.

    Redfin (down 5% YOY in KC), Altos (down 10% YOY in Seattle), and Tim’s tracker (up 17% YOY in KC) are all saying different things in regard to inventory levels. Doesn’t seem like it should be that hard, right? Personally, I trust Redfin’s number the most.

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  42. DrShort

    By LA Relo @ 34:

    One thing matters: incomes. In reality nothing else matters.

    But it’s the total aggregate income that matters. This is a function of not only what people are making, but also how many people there are. This explains why Detroit is such a mess — they’ve lost half their population.

    Conversely, you can have a parts of the country with strong population growth but flat wages see inflated home prices.

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  43. corncob

    By One Eyed Man @ 36:

    But what the heck is causing Calif to be up 10% when the fundamentals are so bad? It’s gotta be more than the feeble buyer’s tax credit.

    I used to live in California, it is a matter of life there that housing is in perpetual bubble cycles. There is no normal, steady and income-matched growth in the California market (California being defined as the Bay Area, LA and SD. The rest only bubbles up at the extremes).

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  44. Scott Weitz

    RE: DrShort @ 42

    The reality is that none of the numbers are right since the shadow inventory of REOs is bigger than most realize.

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  45. DrShort

    By Scott Weitz @ 45:

    RE: DrShort @ 42

    The reality is that none of the numbers are right since the shadow inventory of REOs is bigger than most realize.

    Someone could probably plow through the county assessor’s database and get a real answer, but here’s a back of the envelope estimate:

    Since 1/1/2008 there’s been 7500 trustee deeds issued in King County.
    Since 1/1/2008 there’s been around 50,000 sales per the NWMLS in King County (SFH + Condo). There’s also been 62,000 Warranty Deeds during this time.

    I’ve heard the figure of 8% thrown around as the % of sales that have been bank owned. Let’s assume that’s true. If it is, that’d be 4,000 bank owned SFH + Condos that have sold. Leaving a shadow inventory of REOs at ~3K – 4K.

    Limitations that hopefully somewhat cancel out:
    + 8% of sales being bank owned is probably too high going back to 1/1/08.
    + Trustee Deeds are probably like Warranty Deeds and overstate the number of residential transactions (in this case foreclosures).

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  46. Gerald

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 29:

    By David McManus @ 8:
    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 7 – What is partisan is someone who sees the economy falling apart, but continues to stick their fingers in their ears and say everything is fine, we’re in recovery. Just curious, but when is Obama going to start taking responsibility for the economy instead of just continuing to point fingers?

    What is a problem is saying that economic programs have no effect because the trend is still a “negative” direction. Those type of arguments are only persuasive to those who are extreme left or right.

    Why must one assume that a government’s economic program can only have a positive effect rather than a negative effect?

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  47. David McManus

    RE: D. in Ballard @ 26 – I sure am going to miss American’s most tolerant city, lol!

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  48. mark

    RE: David McManus @ 21

    Look across the Atlantic? Dude, that quote from Ms. Thatcher has been floating around for years! You’re quite late to the game.

    You ever wonder why countries turn to socialism? Probably not, you get your marching orders from hate radio! Countries like Russia, Venezuela, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc, etc, turn to socialism because the alternative hasn’t worked for them.

    You ever wonder why we ended up with programs like Socialist Security and Medicare?

    I’ll give you a clue, Old people would have been eating out of garbage cans and dying at an early age if they had to depend on market forces! They couldn’t cut it on their own!

    You ever wonder why we ended up with a bubble in real estate? People from the first depression have largely gone, the current generation thinks that it is different this time. Well it isn’t different, the only problem that you have is that you haven’t lived all of these disasters before!

    Can’t you do any better?

    Gee, you’re really deep! Tune into Rush for your next talking point!

    Can you say “Wingnut”?

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  49. mark

    RE: David McManus @ 48

    You’ll feel quite comfortable with idiots like yourself!

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  50. k2000k

    RE: mark @ 49

    It isn’t that capitalism didn’t work, it’s because they thought they could find something better, and honestly those countries you picked are terrible examples. They didn’t have free markets before communism, they were run by oligarchs or individuals connected to the government, and they certainly were not better off afterward.

    Russia-Soviet Union collapsed
    Cuba-economy in shambles now relies on tourism
    Venezuela-economy going down the tubes
    China-moved to more pro-market policies
    Vietnam-same as china.

    Moreover, these are terrible examples because of the nature of their governments. Better examples would be Europe. And they are not in great shape. They have historically lagged behind the US in terms of economic growth, they now have a welfare net they cannot support, and it is going to be a lot harder for them to take the steps necessary to fix these problems than it would be in the US. Just look at Greece, they are a socialist country. Ultimately an economy follows the laws of capitalism, whether its socialist or free market, and the US problems don’t result from us being a capitalist nation, but rather a collusion between big business and government and a disregard for financial prudence.

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  51. May Newsletter: Hangover Helper: Low Interest Rates Hit Seattle | Redfin Seattle Sweet Digs

    [...] Seattle Bubble blog charts the local Case-Shiller data in elaborate detail. But our favorite Seattle Bubble chart is the one comparing what someone with a median income in [...]

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  52. DrShort

    RE: The Tim @ 51

    I was comparing the most recent “# for sale” datapoint on their chart to this time last year. It’s 11.25K vesus 11.8K for May 25th, 2009. They actually show inventory slipping a little this month. That could be a data issue or people removing their homes from th market post tax credit.

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  53. David McManus

    RE: mark @ 50 – Enjoy your double digit unemployment, lol.

    I would get jab a personal insult at you like you did, but I’ll respect The Tim’s rules.

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  54. David McManus

    RE: mark @ 49 – Oh, and yeah, I know that quote was from Margaret Thatcher, hence the reason it was in double quotes.

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  55. mark

    RE: k2000k @ 52

    Not terrible examples at all. These were all countries that the U.S. supported before they went commie!

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  56. mark

    RE: David McManus @ 56

    It wasn’t in double quotes, it wasn’t in quotes either!

    We all know it was from Margaret Thatcher, you quoted it and gave her credit for it, and it has been quoted ad naseum forever!

    Wake up!

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