A few months ago I had the privilege of sitting down at a local coffee shop with a long-time Seattle Bubble reader as he shared his home buying story with me, and now I’d like to share his story with you.
“Bruce” got married in 2005, and like many young couples, he and his wife thought that might be a good time to put apartment living behind them. So, they started looking for a house to buy on the Eastside near Bruce’s job.
Bruce spent some time looking at homes online and feeling out the market, but after a while, he began to sense that something was a little off. “Prices were going up like crazy,” giving Bruce and his wife reason to slow down and spend a little more time investigating. Not surprisingly, when Bruce began to seek answers to what was going on in the Seattle-area housing market, it wasn’t long before he found Seattle Bubble.
“I really liked the analytical approach.” Inspired by the stats-based analysis on Seattle Bubble, Bruce drew up his own modeling of his specific local market. He compared his current rent to what it would cost him to buy, looked at prices in markets with similar economies, and analyzed the complete cost of owning.
After completing his analysis and realizing that they could not afford to buy a home without making serious compromises (commute, size, features) to get into any home at all, Bruce and his wife decided to hold off until the market came back down to earth.
Meanwhile, some of Bruce’s friends and coworkers got caught up in the hype and bought homes in 2005 and 2007, ending up forty-five minutes to an hour from their jobs, their kids’ schools, and all of the communities they regularly participate in.
Even though he decided not to buy right away, Bruce didn’t just stop looking for homes. He spent the next few years watching Redfin, saving notes on properties that looked interesting, and over time was able to get a really good feel for how much a home on the market would eventually sell for—a crucial skill to develop if you want to get a good price when you buy a home.
In late 2009, with prices off over 20% around Seattle and a baby on the way, Bruce and his wife began looking more seriously again at buying. They found individual sellers to be stubbornly clinging to fantasy pricing, but builders were willing to price homes to sell. They put out an offer on a home in a relatively close-in Eastside new construction development in December, and proceeded to engage the builder in three months of back-and-forth offers/counteroffers before finally coming to an agreement and closing the deal.
Bruce points out that his friends who bought in ’05 and ’07 are still living in their far-flung homes, driving hours a day to and from homes that they now can’t afford to sell.
While Bruce feels he could have probably gotten a slightly better deal if he had been able to wait a little longer, the timing was right for his family, they found a home that meets their needs, and they can comfortably afford the payments. Bruce notes that their only compromise was “probably a little bit on the price,” but that they bought “what they absolutely like,” in a neighborhood that is close to everywhere they want to go.
My favorite quote from my meeting with Bruce:
Anybody who is buying a house without [researching] using Redfin and Seattle Bubble is probably making a mistake.
Congrats to Bruce for exercising patience, avoiding getting trapped in the remote ‘burbs, and holding out for the house he really wanted in the neighborhood he really wanted to live in.
Full disclosure: The Tim is employed by Redfin.
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Love this article. I too am waiting for the right time for our family and situation. I saw that prices got out of hand and luckily found Red Fin and then Seattle Bubble. With these two combined, it has informed me of many things about buying a home.
One day when I buy a home I will definitely be giving this website a tip. :)
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If this were written by anybody but The Tim, I’d be wary and dismiss it as self serving BS. The Tim IS Mr. Seattle Bubble, is employed by Redfin, and features as his blog post a testimonial on how wonderful Redfin and Seattle Bubble are.
And real estate is an industry rife with folks tooting their own horns.
If I didn’t know, like, or trust The Tim, I’d just assume this was just a continuation of that age old tradition of horn tooting.
To be clear, this is not one of those cases.
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Financial Advice in Today’s Housing Market
Is similar to giving cancer treatment advice to someone with terminal cancer, in the end they have to live [or die] with their decision. It’s really none of our business except their’s.
I may give my opinion and suggestions, but if and when they decide on like, chemo or do nothing, I just smile and wish them luck with their plan.
Best of luck Bruce on your decision, for your family.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 2 – The funny part is that I met with this reader about three months ago, before I even saw the job posting at Redfin.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 2 – It is horn tooting, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true, and a good example of how to treat a home purchase.
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RE: The Tim @ 4 – RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 2 –
“Anybody who is buying a house without [researching] using Redfin and Seattle Bubble is probably making a mistake.”
Like Ira said, coming from another industry source that would sound like a testimonial off of an agent’s promotional website. I’m not much of a promoter and generally find promotion (however necessary) to be distasteful. But if I were educating people on the local residential real estate market, I’d put both on the Seattle Bubble and Redfin on the required reading list.
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Fantastic! That’s almost identical to our story. I also would like to thank everyone at Seattle Bubble Blog and Redfin, over all these years, for giving me the data to make a wiser decision. Information, that supported my feelings, back in 2006-7, things were out of control, even when everyone else was telling us we were wrong and making a big mistake for waiting. And now, with your help and shared data, we close monday and get to live in a beautiful house in Newcastle, instead of very south/east renton.
Now I’ll have to break my addiction of house hunting on redfin, before I drive myself crazy.
Thanks again, all of you, for everyone’s help!
patrick and deborah
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Bruce, you bought your house the same way I invest.
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If I rent a house or condo right now, how likely is it that I will be kicked out because the owner will want to sell it?
Yesterday, we visited a condo for rent and the landlady told us that she might sell it sometime in the future. A lot of owners right now are waiting for the “economy to turn around” and are renting out their place.
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If I didn’t know better I’d say this was a Redfin commercial. =P
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I’d say the same. I’ve had money to buy my first house for two years, and found seattle bubble, and some of the analysis was helpful in deciding to take it slow. I particularly appreciated the graphs on housing/income ratios over time and the divergence that happened during the irrational credit/cash lending period.
I had one experience though, in process of home-looking and home-thinking, where a friend remarked that I was being “overly analytical” and if I like a place and can afford it I should just buy it. Well, sometimes I like a dress too, but I don’t spend $300 without considering whether it’s worth it to me! And 400,000 or 450,000 dollars is a lot of money to spend. I pointed out to him that I actually enjoyed being informed, and that I enjoyed the place I was currently renting, so no loss in my quality of life. I had already done an estimate of the “what ifs” of waiting based on the real possibility of rising interest rates. The amount I would save from renting over a year would essentially provide more down payment, and “equal out” for the rise in interest rates. That was based on assumption that prices would remain flat or maybe a bit down, but likely not to “go through the roof” increase.
That analysis has turned out well for me. Surprisingly, I now have access to a lower interest rate, AND have saved a bigger down payment. I’m ready to jump in anytime but consider myself lucky that I can make a reasoned decision. Various people I know are strapped by mortgage payments that are multiple times that of the equivalent cost in rent.
If one divorces oneself from the “collective consciousness” around homebuying, it comes down to a purchase like any other — is it priced to value, will it likely bring me more happiness, and what is my assessment of it’s investment potential. Seattle bubble has been a good place to occasionally tune in to hear various opinions on all of the above that help inform my own.
So, I second the thanks!!
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This story also tracks almost identically with mine. Ready to buy in ’07, it was apparent that there was a feeding frenzy in the housing market (and Seattle Bubble helped confirm what I was seeing), so we waited. Over the course of the next 2-1/2 years we looked at 100s of open houses and went on dozens of home tours with Redfin. So, this Spring, with prices 20%+ off peak, when we finally decided it was time to take the plunge (even if home prices were still falling), we had an excellent idea of what was out there, what it was selling for, and what it was worth.
Here is where my story has a slight wrinkle. The property we ended up buying had been bought out of foreclosure auction and was being resold by an investment group for a whopping profit. I think this turned off a lot of potential buyers–but when we saw the home, our extensive home touring experience led us to believe that the house was much nicer than even the sellers knew. Since the chain of ownership had gone from longtime owner–>idiot flipper who got foreclosed on–>investment group, little was known about the details/history of the property.
So we contacted the longtime owner (who had sold the house a couple of years previous) to find out the house had been extensively remodeled in the early 2000s with a down-to-the studs renovation, including all new electrical system, 100% copper plumbing, new roof, and major structural improvements. Most of the work had been permitted (not all), but none of this information was in the property listing or otherwise made obvious to potential buyers.
We bought the house, are renting out the MIL to a good friend, and are paying about the same as we did when we rented, except with 200 additional square feet in our own living space (and another 850 downstairs in the MIL), plus a 2-car garage and a large fenced yard for our dog and garden. We may have saved more my waiting even longer, but after seeing all those houses, we knew this was the one…and although we may have slightly compromised on price, our quality of life is better and we couldn’t be happier!
I can’t imagine buying a house without Redfin–it was invaluable–and thanks to Tim and Seattle Bubble for providing such spot-on market analysis!
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Fish on! Tim and his make-believe friend “Bruce”. Haha. “Bruce” loves Redfin and Seattle Bubble. Ya sure. It would have been more believable if you gave “Bruce’s” wife a name like “Trixie” and a couple of exotic pets…say zebras named “Bonnie and Clyde”. Good one Tim.
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Currently vacationing here in California but I must admit as of late it appears nearly every article posted lately has a Red Fin reference. This is no slam towards Tim but can someone run a graph on Red Fin references prior to employment and now AFTER employment???
Red Fin clients remain our # 1 source of referrals for many reasons. Not sure whats going on over there but it must be do to increasing market share or ????????. Tim, I have a few 500 Realty clients that would love to BUY you lunch and tell you stories that will trump this one 1000x over…
I love Red Fin, Findwell, and all the other alternative Brokerages coming but we and THEY can do far better in rebating customers and reducing the horrendous listing office fees…
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RE: The Tim @ 5 –
What’s funny is that you published this article now, rather than three months before your employment.
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RE: HappyRenter @ 10 – It’s definitely a fear. I’ve rented two houses that the owners decided to sell. Factoring in moving fees and damage deposits, I probably spent $2,000 moving from both those places. Both places sold after we left, so I suppose I can’t fault the owners for trying. I wouldn’t have bought their houses at those prices, but someone else did.
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RE: ray pepper @ 15 – I’ve had the notes from my coffee shop meeting with “Bruce” sitting in my notepad for the last three months. It’s a complete coincidence that he talked so much about Redfin.
As for the frequency of posts mentioning Redfin, if you count every single time the word “Redfin” is mentioned, I suppose there might be a large number, but that has always been true because it’s the best place (only place?) to download area-wide sale and listing info that I use for a number of stats posts (histograms, inventory breakdowns, etc.), and it’s the easiest place to filter for things like the “Cheapest Homes” series of posts.
Since I’ve started working at Redfin I’ve had the two monthly Redfin stats posts (which is a series that started before I started working there), this post and one other reader story where the readers mentioned Redfin (not me), the clip from The Money Pit where I mentioned Redfin as well as Estately and Zillow, and the “Magical Mystery Sales” post where I pulled a bunch of public record and Redfin sales data to show how the NWMLS was monkeying with the numbers.
Just my opinion obviously, but that doesn’t seem like an undue number of mentions.
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Good lord, people, is this story about “Bruce” really all that far-fetched? We all took some pretty serious beatings here from RE agents in the 2006-2007 timeframe, some of the attacks quite personal, so I for one welcome these sort of ‘wrap-up’ posts.
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RE: The Tim @ 18 – Give it up Tim. The Democrats think that your thinking would be affected by not only Redfin, but any entities that own Redfin. So your disclosure that you work for Redfin is no longer sufficient. You now need to disclose that you work for Redfin, every entity that owns Redfin, and who they give money to. Then and only then will you be credible. :-D
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/archives/218543.asp
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RE: ray pepper @ 15 –
I don’t doubt you can offer a bigger discount than Redfin Ray. Mind giving me a link to where I’m supposed to research a property to buy?
Face it, Redfin has the best realestate search in the business. You should thank your lucky stars they exist because I bet the majority of your customers use their service, then pay you money to make an offer.
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RE: Pegasus @ 14 –
Are you serious Pegasus or just poking a little fun? I’m pretty jaded, but that’s a little cold isn’t it. The Tim’s affiliation with Redfin might perhaps color his judgment a little (he might refrain from penning a critical post that he previously would have published if Redfin screwed something up) but I think he has far too much integrity to fabricate some tacky fraud to blow Redfin’s horn. And I must agree with him that Redfin is probably the next best thing to direct access to the MLS when in comes to getting local real estate data. Metrokc.gov and other sources require a lot of compilation to acquire usable amounts of data. And Redfin would probably be happier if The Tim shut down this site and submitted his posts for their review and publication when they suited their purposes. I’m glad he’s still able to do this. Do you think Windermere or JLS would let The Tim do this if he was on their payroll?
Just so you know, I have no affiliation with Redfin. And its my personal opinion that at some point a non-MLS data base like a Craig’s List for real estate along with independent (non-MLS) brokers and attorneys to show homes and do contracts, will provide the most cost effective marketing vehicle for residential property. Full service MLS style brokerages may still exist for the high end but the cost savings will wipe out the MLS and most of its members.
If that’s true, Redfin probably won’t even be around it 20 yrs unless they adapt and survive, say perhaps by establishing the specialized Craig’s List type listing data base, leaving the MLS and going rogue so to speak. But doing that would be a big risk. If they did it they’d probably set up a separate company to do it. They have shareholders to answer to and they can’t risk leaving the MLS unless they are sure they can quickly reach the critical mass to stand alone without a share of the MLS commission split pie.
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Interesting read, but it doesn’t do much good to read about how “market analysis” and “patience” are essential to not overpaying for a house, when some people’s market analysis says prices will slide another 40% while others say we’ve already hit bottom.
What if, after this self-congratulatory article, the home buyer finds his house go down another 20%? Didn’t some big bank predict that for Seattle?
Of course housing prices were inflated during the boom, and of course they’ve gone down since then, but are they done going down? That’s an important practical question for price-conscious buyers now, and it’s something no one can answer with certainty. It was a lot easier at the height of the bubble to talk about waiting and patience. Now what?
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RE: The Mike @ 23 – Beyond all that, let’s assume the market turns around. Some types of properties might go down significantly even in an up market.
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RE: One Eyed Man @ 22 – I am sure John L Scott and Windermere can provide their own happy “Bruce” stories too. Heck..they might even have real names. Where are those articles here about those happy people using other firms? Just so you know, I have no affiliation with Redfin or any other real estate firm. I do affiliate with John Daniels and Captain Morgan occasionally.
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“Just so you know, I have no affiliation with Redfin or any other real estate firm. I do affiliate with John Daniels and Captain Morgan occasionally.”
And you’d be willing to provide a testimonial on just how good John Daniels and Captain Morgan are?
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By HappyRenter @ 10:
You can’t be kicked out if you have a lease, the new owners can either buy you out of the lease (if you agree) or it carries over with the house. Always make sure to cross out any clauses that allow them to kick you out from any lease (they probably wouldn’t hold up in court anyways) and make sure you assert additional rights like not being hit with people entering the home for viewings, etc. A lease is a two way street, don’t just sign whatever they shove in front of you. If they don’t like it, you don’t want to live there.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 26 – Absolutely! I will use the name “Bruce” to give testimony. “Bruce Almighty”
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RE: Pegasus @ 25 –
Nice to know we have some mutual friends.
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RE: One Eyed Man @ 29 – Hehe
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By corncob @ 27:
It’s not a lease. It’s a simple rental contract. Can’t that be terminated with a few months notice if the owner decides to sell?
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Redfin is awesome, but the story offended my intelligence a bit because it did not mention the price and the down payment and how much they have left in emergency funds. Let me guess — 475K, but the payments are so affordable.
From a national perspective, none of us in this region should be cavalier. Housing prices are not and may never be ‘affordable’ or ‘easy’ on a monthly basis here.
And the 20% off from the high self congratulations is getting old at this juncture. Whatever the new normal is has little to do with the tippy top of a distant bubble.
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Found the following on Redfin:
“Join us on August 30th for free drinks and real estate conversation at our West Seattle Happy Hour.”
When do we get free drinks on the Eastside? I would join in, if it were in Redmond.
I just can’t see myself walking home from West Seattle, too far to stagger!
Come on The Tim, you got some pull now!
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 25 –
John Daniels? Any relation to Jack?
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By chico @ 33:
http://www.starz.com/promotions/moviemoments/featuredmoments/step2/?clip=F1B03C67-D5E2-4159-92E5-0106F655174A
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Thank you One Eyed Man, That one was completely over my head. Live and learn I guess.
It was funny!
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By Pegasus @ 24:
For the record, the only aspect of Bruce’s story that mentioned Redfin was about how he used Redfin’s website to do research on the housing market, not using Redfin’s brokerage firm to close a deal.
By zipzippygc @ 31:
Unfortunately Bruce didn’t share that with me, and I wasn’t going to pry. He didn’t even want me to share the story unless I changed his name and didn’t provide any personal details, and that level of financial data is pretty personal to some people.
RE: chico @ 32 – I’ll see what I can do. ;^)
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RE: The Tim @ 36 – Lighten up Francis….I was just having a little fun at your expense.
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By The Tim @ 36:
This reminds me of my often repeated story of back in my college days when one of my co-workers at UPS pondered whether my rat Twelve fantasized about female rats coming up to and somehow getting into his cage. Real estate agents/firms are like that with websites. The fantasize that if they get a good website and the clients will magically appear.
I often wonder whether everyone (agents, firms, consumers, but not IT people) would be better off if the NWMLS simply opened up Matrix with a public portal.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 2 – Now we be officially lapdog and less than insightful. Oh, dig a shallow grave. But Ira, I find your views of most interest and am curious where you’ll be reading and contributing. Please don’t say Redfin…You’re why I read this thang!
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RE: sallybuttons @ 39 – Is the lutefisk?
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RE: sleepwalker @ 20 –
“You should thank your lucky stars they exist because I bet the majority of your customers use their service, then pay you money to make an offer.” BINGO!!!
Yes, very true. Many clients love their search/ research along with the JLS and Windermere. We encourage everyone to use ALL the data they can acquire first.
However, I would never thank my lucky stars for Red Fin. Change came without Red Fin through technology, time, and in my opinion the success of MLS4Owners. As long as the MLS exists so will our companies but I assure everyone Red Fin / 500 Realty and the many other Brokerages that come along also have a very limited life expectancy in their current form. Real Estate will be completely different in 10 years and the MLS will be gone and a far more customer cost efficient data base will emerge.
Lets watch and eagerly await this together!
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RE: David Losh @ 15 –
DavidLosh, seriously what is your beef with redfin?
I love the website because it has a clean and simple User Interface. Can you show me a comparable site with features like redfin?
Additionally Tim specifically calls out that his “Bruce” only used redfin to do research. I would do the same. He is not saying use redfin to buy/sell a house.
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I think the part of this that made it feel like a commercial was at the end when the “favorite quote” was quoted. To me it felt like a marketing person quoting a favorable customer review, particularly since both Seattle Bubble and Redfin were mentioned — kind of like a customer testimonial in a TV commercial. I don’t think that was the intent, but that’s how it felt. And I do have to admit that since the Redfin employment started, everything Redfin related comes with a dose of skepticism for me, but then I’m a skeptic by nature.
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By Lake Hills Renter @ 43:
That’s as it should be. There’s a reason I am very intentional about keeping the full disclosure notice on any post I make that mentions Redfin in pretty much any way. People should know that while the blog is in no way endorsed or affiliated, the author is definitely financially entangled.
I’ll say the same thing I’ve said for years: Although I do my best to present an honest picture of the market and a fair and complete analysis of the data, I don’t want my readers to take my word (or anyone’s word) for things, I want them to use the resources available to them to go out and do the research for themselves.
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I understand that, and I give you the benefit of the doubt. I’ve been around here long enough to get a good sense of your integrity. Thus why I explicitly called out that I did not think that was your intent. I just wanted to give you some feedback on what, to me, made it feel more like a commercial post.
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By sallybuttons @ 39:
Thanks, I’ll be here all week folks. Don’t forget to tip your waitress.
Where I find myself contributing online is mostly here, on the city-data.com Seattle forums, rentonhipster, and less frequently on assorted political blogs( publicola, horsesass,, City of Renton’s facebook page).
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RE: TheHulk @ 42 –
My beef with redfin is long standing. What I resent is that the Glenn guy went to Congress like he was going to do something for the consumer. He didn’t, and never had that intention.
Rebate Brokerage was illegal. Now every large corporate entity going back to Sears Roebuck wanted the Rebate Brokerage. If you can rebate, you can also direct other services, like mortgages, escrow, title. Sears wanted to be able to give away patio furniture, or a preset limit on a Discover Card, they owned Discover at that time, along with Coldwell Banker.
Then Glenn guy then went on a campaign of bad mouthing the Real Estate Industry while promoting himself as a savior, rather than just another choice that consumers have.
You’ll notice I promote a site like Zillow, even though it also has problems. Much more importantly is that Lennox Scott has done far more to provide the public with search features, out of his own pocket, rather than venture capital, because he truly loves this business.
I love this business. I also have a long list of Bruce stories. I can say that I have made a half dozen millionaires in Real Estate, and that Real Estate has been very good to me over the years. Commission sales isn’t the business.
Ultimately redfin is the face of corporate America, it’s what big Brokerages want, and the whole mess is going to be for sale, if it isn’t already.
I just resent the guy bad mouthing my business, when he’s no part of it, doesn’t want to be a part of it. All he’s doing is sitting back waiting for you to do the work, and charging a lot for some little bitty paper work BS. Sales data is sales data, knowing the market takes experience.
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RE: ray pepper @ 41 –
Well said, and more to the point.
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RE: David Losh @ 47 – The transporter is unable to lock on your current position for teleportation back to Uranus. Please move away from the dumpster and assume the position.
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RE: Pegasus @ 49 –
Would that be the position to get rebated by redfin?
They promise to do less for you if you let them rebate you.
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Pegasus and Losh..Its dialogue like this that KEEPS me coming back to the Bubble. Love it!…I can only only handle so many charts!
You both earned free tickets to The Seattle Home Show from ME!
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Zillow and Redfin have done more for buyers in the Seattle area than anyone else even if home buyers and sellers don’t use their brokerage services. I used the Redfin site extensively when looking for homes (yes, we had bad timing in 2007 but it was slightly offset by selling another property at inflated values) and basically it made the CMA provided by my real estate agent completely useless. I was just as informed as she was about comps in the area save for some personal connections when she could get a little more detail.
RE agents are going to have to get a lot better to keep justifying their 3% commissions. Providing transparent price information to consumers killed the travel agency business and their fees. I have no doubt that it will happen in real estate although it may take longer.
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RE: Jeremy @ 52 – Just out of curiosity, what do you think Zillow has done for anyone?
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RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 53 – Give great valuations of homes based on the weather or sheep entrails?
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RE: Pegasus @ 54 – No, surely it’s their super-helpful forums!
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RE: The Tim @ 55 – Never read them. All I know is Zillow was a boon to the real estate bubble. Every home they put a price on was in the clouds while the bubble was rising and they gave the masses an excuse to overpay on a home. Real estate charts that just go straight up fed the frenzy that you would soon be priced out forever. Every buyer was watching his new home escalate in value every day just like a stock or commodity. It was part of the mania. I began to believe they were part of the conspiracy to sucker in every last buyer in the bubble with their ridiculous home valuations.
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RE: Jeremy @ 52 –
I would add John L Scott to that list. The search site of John L Scott is the most user friendly, in my opinion. He was also the one who worked with Microsoft on more cutting endge technology for things like Bird’s Eye view.
Zillow provides a broader research for homes, listed, and unlisted. The forums are useless, but there is also the links to Estately, and I forget epraisals(?).
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By Pegasus @ 54:
If you go to Zillow for a home valuation, then go to eppraisal, then go to Cyberhomes, then go to the county for their assessment, average them out, and then circle the home on one foot while balancing a sheep entrail on your head, and then subtract the square inches of sheep entrail dropped on the ground from the above average, you should get within 50% of the current market value of the home, provided it’s a cloudy day.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 58 – No lutefisk involved?
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By Pegasus @ 59:
No. The odor of the lutefisk will lower the vale of the home faster than any bursting bubble could.
But here’s an idea:
If you find a house you want to buy but fear that others might outbid you, rub all that perfectly staged furniture with lutefisk. That should repel all competitors except maybe a few wealthy Norwegians.
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RE: Jeremy @ 52 –
I’m pretty excited to learn that John L Scott has gone to a transaction fee based business model. Agents only pay into the system when they do a transaction.
It’s a great idea, and way ahead of the curve. It will, however, still encourage part timers to stay in the business. The up side is that those agents can make what ever fee structure they chose.
BTW the cost to travel has gone up considerably. The airlines, in a profit motive, refused to pay a commission. You no longer have the discount of bulk purchase. You deal directly with the airlines who in turn invested in hotel chains, like Comfort Inn. You pay full retail to get less, coming, and going.
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RE: David Losh @ 47 –
“All he’s doing is sitting back waiting for you to do the work, and charging a lot for some little bitty paper work BS. Sales data is sales data, knowing the market takes experience.”
The second sentence is pure genius. Unfortunately, the first sentence is your conclusion and it’s pure denial. We, the consumer, love the online experience because we are so poorly treated by the “personal” touch.
As I said on another thread, I would gladly pay a commission for good advice and honest market knowledge. Someone like that can save me many times the commission by steering me away from bad neighborhoods and mispriced properties. Instead we get an assortment of imbeciles and high-pressure sales people.
Here’s an idea, Losh. Start your own web site where you rate realtors, so we the consumer can find a good one. Think about how you’d prove that. PS, it’s not experience because someone can be lousy for 40 years, while someone else can be the best in 3 years. And it’s not making “half a dozen millionaires” because anybody can say that.
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RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 53 – Zillow was the first site to make searching public records available on a large scale for the average consumer. Forget about their valuation method for a minute. The ranges are so wide as to be useless. (Zillow thinks my house is worth between 325k and 450k.) The ability to see and search the records of every home sale recorded by itself is a huge win for consumers.
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RE: David Losh @ 57 – Thanks for the tip. I really like the neighborhood wizard where you can draw lines surrounding an area of interest. That helps avoid skewing the numbers when multiple neighborhoods with very different characteristics are in such close proximity as to make distance-based statistical comparisons useless.
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RE: David Losh @ 61 – There are many factors in the cost of travel. What I do know, though, is that the travel “agents” whose only skill was to hit search and tell you what the best option today was and get paid for that are no longer in business. Now you can book through Expedia and pay no commission (it used to be $5 per ticket IIRC). The net result is that people whose compensation relied on being gatekeepers to purchasing a ticket or reservation has drastically been decreased. The agents that are left have to provide at least as much as their fee in value because there are cheaper alternatives.
Back to real estate, I’m happy to pay a fee to an agent to provide good advice and negotiate a great deal on my behalf. I’m not willing to pay ridiculous fees to someone whose sole value is that they can open the MLS keybox and fill in the blanks on the pre-printed sales contract. Those kinds of agents are now obvious for all to see since home buyers and sellers can access a lot of the same information as employees of a brokerage. Vigilant buyers find listings quicker than their real estate agent often sends them updates and run essentially the same report as the CMA thanks to the online search tools available today.
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RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 58 –
ROTFLMAO!!!
For the record, I do agree that Zillow and Redfin have done more for homebuyers (vs. sellers) than any other force (including the government that is supposed to protect them) in the history of real estate going back 100 years. On a combined basis they helped increase the rights of homebuyers by 1000%… Unfortunately we still have another 1000% increase to go. But it’s a start, for sure.
I don’t think either stayed true to their original objectives…and became much a business not so very unlike all others. But without them, homebuyers would clearly be worse off than they are today. They are both exceptionally valuable tools for home buyers.
As to other companies maybe offering a few similar things…well, they wouldn’t be if they were not first prompted to do so by Redfin and Zillow, in order to compete in the marketplace.
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By Jeremy @ 63:
Thanks for the explanation. That might vary depending on the county you’re in. Pierce County, for example, has better search tools than even King, while Kitsap is a total mess (last time I looked).
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By Jeremy @ 64:
Assuming you’re talking about what I think (defining an area on a map with lines you draw), that’s a feature that should be on every site, and that without it the site is very deficient.
Matrix added the ability to have more than one area within a single search. That’s even more useful.
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