Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

903 responses to “Politics & Economics Open Thread”

These comments are paged! This is page 1. Navigate the pages here:
1 2 3 10
  1. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 1195:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1194 – Liar = Politician. No harm, no foul.

    Unfortunately, you’re right. Politicians no longer care about telling the truth. They just want to spin everything, and use misleading talking points.

    I use a computer to record all the TV I watch and thus don’t see many political ads. Fast forwarding I do see that Inslee and McKenna are hard at attacking each other in the TV media. Being able to avoid all that, and more, means the computer that records the shows pays for itself every other year.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  2. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1 – If everyone wants to be promised a pink pony, what politician would succeed if he did not?

    It is best to watch no TV or cable at all. It is programming for the masses.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  3. pfft

    NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL SUES JPMORGAN FOR FRAUD OVER MORTGAGE BACKED SECURITIES

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ny-ag-sues-jp-morgan-for-fraud-over-mbs-2012-10#ixzz285ib3Swu

    yay!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  4. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 2:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 1 – If everyone wants to be promised a pink pony, what politician would succeed if he did not?

    It is best to watch no TV or cable at all. It is programming for the masses.

    so I guess you aren’t a sports fan?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  5. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 3 – But President Obama said that Wall Street committed no crimes in March, 2009.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  6. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 5:

    RE: pfft @ 3 – But President Obama said that Wall Street committed no crimes in March, 2009.

    maybe he meant just for that month? although even that would be stretching it.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  7. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 6 – No, what he said in March 2009, when he was on the Leno show, was that no crimes had been committed by Wall Street.

    Wrong again. Despicable corporatist. We deserve better.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  8. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 7

    Today it was American Express’s time to pay, and wasn’t it last week it was Bank of America?

    This is real simple, because we have no true banking regulation, or legislation.

    The banking industry, and financial markets make bets, one way or the other, on each piece of legislation to come out of Congress.

    They know the laws before they are passed, they know what discisions will be made because they pay for them.

    There is no crime against that. If you wanted to go for insider information you’d lose because this is all public information. Nobody looks at these laws, unless you have a stake in it.

    Our system is corrupt, but them that make the laws, make the money.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  9. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 6

    You’ve been losing ground lately.

    Obama did say no crimes were committed, and that has been echoed throughout politics, and financial circles.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  10. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 9:

    RE: pfft @ 6

    You’ve been losing ground lately.

    Obama did say no crimes were committed, and that has been echoed throughout politics, and financial circles.

    And not only that, pfft went through another exchange on this issue only about a month ago.

    I’m serious when I say pfft has a memory problem.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  11. Kary L. Krismer

    Apparently there’s incredible wage growth in Iran! ;-)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19798655

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  12. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 – He/She/They is/are a partisan hack, who espouses to the philosophy that if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. While Pfft does invest time in preparing the argument for the Democratic machine, many of his/her/their arguments have been shown to be false. It is unfortunate that someone would invest so much time with the intent to mislead. That is the worst of what is wrong with this country.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  13. Blurtman

    Anyone who endured the Insley-McKenna debate yesterday may have come away with the opinion that McKenna is the far better debater. Insley seemed a bit unfocused by comparison, although McKenna did come across as a cold in his put downs of Insley’s evasive answers.

    In the Obama-Romney debate today, I think the clincher will be how each canbdidate’s soft shoe version of Kicking the Can Dowm the Road excites the crowd. Can’t wait to hear Bruno’s reviews of the dance sequences. I do expect Obama’s version of Still the One to top Romney’s hard rocking version of Boring White Man.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  14. softwarengineer

    We’re All On the Average About $300/mo Poorer in 2013

    Why? The temporary tax breaks end and it may be forever too.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/popular-tax-breaks-dead-happens-070040145.html

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  15. Kary L. Krismer

    I was setting up tonight’s debate to record a few days ago, and went to the cable news channels to record their after-debate analysis. None of them seemed like a good choice. I think maybe I’ll see what the web has to offer. Quite a few places are streaming the debates live, and some probably have analysis afterward.

    http://gigaom.com/video/presidential-debate-live-stream/

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  16. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 1 – I really can’t get into the race for governor for some reason. I’d give a slight edge to McKenna just to have a Republican win and thereby hopefully give a slight indication that there is a significant portion of our public that is not hyper-partisan.

    As far as Bruno, I wish the elections could somehow get rid of him.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  17. David S

    WSJ has a presidential election map here:

    http://graphics.wsj.com/MAPMAKER/#

    What I find interesting about it are the metrics they feel are important for each state on the election outcome.

    Un-employment %
    Per Capita Income $/yr
    Mortgage Delinquency %
    Gas Price $/gal

    I looks like the higher the mortgage delinquency the higher the probability the states’ electoral votes will be for Obama.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  18. Blurtman
  19. Kary L. Krismer

    By David S @ 4:

    I looks like the higher the mortgage delinquency the higher the probability the states’ electoral votes will be for Obama.

    They’re the 47%. Unemployment could be 25% and they’d still vote for President Obama.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  20. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13 – I think a laugh track would add a lot to the debates. Also, if they could lift the curtain to show the same pupeteer working both candidates might be illumintaing. Or, after each point, a cut to the video of that guy throwing the shoe at George W.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  21. Ira Sacharoff

    In the race for King County Sheriff, both the incumbent , Steve Strachan, and his opponent, John Urquhart, have endorsed Initiative 502, which is the marijuana legalization initiative.
    Strikes me that we’re living in Bizzaro World. Strachan is a right wing Republican who served in the Minnesota legislature before becoming a police chief,, and Urquhart is a one time narcotics detective. The initiative is also supported by the former head of the Seattle FBI office , and the former Republican US attorney. It is opposed by some pro marijuana advocates. I am predicting that it will pass. Given that marijuana is still against the law federally, it might not ever get enacted.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  22. Blurtman

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 15 – Romney is a toker. Merkel, Hollande. They are all around.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  23. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 15 – I think a lot of people in law enforcement realize how absurd the law is.

    If it does pass, the one thing it should accomplish is leaving the Feds the only entity enforcing marijuana laws in Washington state (although I’m not sure what the laws would be about growing the stuff, or if there would be tax avoidance issues).

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  24. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 23 – It is clear that Obama tends to over compensate to defeat stereotypes about the Dems with regards to drug law enforcement and weak on defense claims.

    Of course, there is no down side to the weak on prosecuting fraud claim, as both sides are sucking from the same teat.

    Lastly, one of the most popular presidents of recent times was a stoner.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  25. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 7:

    RE: pfft @ 6 – No, what he said in March 2009, when he was on the Leno show, was that no crimes had been committed by Wall Street.

    Wrong again. Despicable corporatist. We deserve better.

    it was joke.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  26. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 12:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 10 – He/She/They is/are a partisan hack, who espouses to the philosophy that if you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes the truth. While Pfft does invest time in preparing the argument for the Democratic machine, many of his/her/their arguments have been shown to be false. It is unfortunate that someone would invest so much time with the intent to mislead. That is the worst of what is wrong with this country.

    right.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  27. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 19:

    By David S @ 4:
    I looks like the higher the mortgage delinquency the higher the probability the states’ electoral votes will be for Obama.

    They’re the 47%. Unemployment could be 25% and they’d still vote for President Obama.

    the 47% makes no sense which is of course why you probably spout it.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  28. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 24:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 23
    Of course, there is no down side to the weak on prosecuting fraud claim, as both sides are sucking from the same teat.

    I guess you don’t know about the Democratic AG from the state of NY that is suing Bear Stearns?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  29. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 25 – No. It was not a joke. Obama repeated this claim several times later as well. Why do you keep lying? What is your motive?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  30. Blurtman

    Financial Fraud Conviction Scorecard:

    Bush: 1300+, Clinton: 1000+, Obama: 0.0 (+/-)

    http://dailybail.com/home/convicted-bush-1300-clinton-1000-obama-00.html

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  31. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 29:

    RE: pfft @ 25 – No. It was not a joke. Obama repeated this claim several times later as well. Why do you keep lying? What is your motive?

    what the heck are you talking about? my joke about maybe just that month was an obvious joke. I don’t know what you think I’m lying about. nobody would ever believe that obama was only talking about the banks not doing anything wrong just for the month of march of 2009. get a grip!

    let’s review the conversation.

    “But President Obama said that Wall Street committed no crimes in March, 2009.”

    to which I replied

    “maybe he meant just for that month?”

    I though it was funny. maybe you guys are too old.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  32. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 30:

    Financial Fraud Conviction Scorecard:

    Bush: 1300+, Clinton: 1000+, Obama: 0.0 (+/-)

    http://dailybail.com/home/convicted-bush-1300-clinton-1000-obama-00.html

    I wouldn’t trust those numbers at all.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  33. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 27:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 19:
    By David S @ 4:
    I looks like the higher the mortgage delinquency the higher the probability the states’ electoral votes will be for Obama.

    They’re the 47%. Unemployment could be 25% and they’d still vote for President Obama.

    the 47% makes no sense which is of course why you probably spout it.

    How does the 47% make no sense? The 47% was a reference by Romney to the percentage of people that will not vote for him. They are partisan Democrats. There’s a similar percentage that is partisan Republican. This election is about the 5-10% who are independent, and turnout for the base of each party.

    Maybe you don’t understand it because you’ve fallen for the Democratic spin of the comment?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  34. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 25

    It was not a joke. Obama is correct in that there were no crimes committed. Everybody followed the laws that were on the books.

    One point that Romney made tonight which resonated with me is that he said this about Dodd Frank:

    “This is the biggest kiss given to New York banks I’ve ever seen,” he said. “I wouldn’t designate five banks as too big to fail and give them a blank check. That’s one of the unintended consequences of Dodd-Frank that wasn’t thought through properly.”

    Banks own this country, and dictate the global economy. The laws were tailor made for them to steal as much as possible.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  35. pfft

    By David Losh @ 34:

    RE: pfft @ 25
    “This is the biggest kiss given to New York banks I’ve ever seen,” he said. “I wouldn’t designate five banks as too big to fail and give them a blank check.

    that’s funny, I have no idea what blank check he is talking about?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  36. Scotsman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 23RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 21

    Enforcing the law is changing nothing but consumes huge amounts of money we don’t have. Legalize all of it and let Darwin’s fabled forces of nature sort it out. Spend 5% of what we spend on enforcement on education and eliminate drug related hardships from the safety net. Within a generation we’ll see meaningful change.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  37. Scotsman

    RE: pfft @ 35

    “I have no idea what blank check he is talking about?”

    It’s hard to keep them all straight, isn’t it? Blank checks to the banks, the union buddies, the major donors and their companies, etc.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  38. Scotsman

    Best tweet of the night: “Romney just took Obama on a tour of the country, strapped to the roof of his car . . ”

    This just in- Queen Michele not happy- Barry O sleeping in the dog house. Bo evicted.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  39. Kary L. Krismer

    I’ve been saying President Obama is a failure because of his inability to create jobs. Last night he was clearly a failure. At several points he was nodding his head in agreement when Romney was making points. He even laughed at Romney’s joke on green energy that President Obama doesn’t pick the winners and losers, he picks the losers!

    I mentioned in post 15 above that none of the cable news networks seemed attractive, but I decided to record MSNBC’s analysis to see what the liberal spin was. What I ended up with was several very irate liberals, most notably Chris Mathews. Part of that can be seen here, where he’s interviewed on NBC later.

    http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/49285127

    What’s not shown there is these liberal commentators think President Obama needs to watch MSNBC! ROTFMAO. F’n idiots don’t know that their spin is spin. They even wanted President Obama to bring up the 47%, apparently being like pfft and not knowing what that means either. Romney would have knocked that out of the park too. Spin doesn’t work when your opponent has an opportunity to correct the record right after you spin. Morons.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  40. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 35

    How could you not know what he’s talking about? Like I said, you are slipping. Most of the time you bring substance, but let me trot this out for you.

    Obama could have done nothing to provide stimulus. The economy, especially the banks could have crashed, and scrambled. We may, or may not have had defaults, but it would have been in the private sector without involving the government.

    Are you with me so far?

    Instead Obama chose, with the advise of the Goldman Sachs team, to create this huge safety net for the economy at the cost of $5 Trillion. It saved jobs, and companies, now determined to be too big to fail, like Bank of America.

    We need to break up Bank of America to get rid of millions of bogus loans they have on the books. What Bernanke last did is promise to buy up loans at the rate of $40 Billion per month. The loans are still bogus, and lenders are generating more, and more bogus loans each day.

    We have a mess Obama created, and now needs to be fixed. Hopefully Obama has a plan to fix it, and I like what he has said so far, but the fact remains in his rush to create this safety net he created massive problems for our government.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  41. Kary L. Krismer

    You need to fact check the fact-checkers! On the cuts to Medicare:

    In fact, that $716 billion comes from trimming planned future increases over the next decade, not cutting funding. And those trims come from limiting payments to health-care providers and insurers — NOT limiting care to seniors.
    And Medicare’s chief actuary says Obama’s health reform “substantially improves” the program’s finances.

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/03/14207584-truth-squad-the-debate?lite

    Trimming future increases is a cut! Either that, or part of what is funding Obamacare is entirely smoke and mirrors.

    And as to insurers and health care providers being cut, where do they think Medicare funds go? Do they think Medicare cuts checks to Seniors?

    And yes, of course cutting spending would significantly increase the health of Medicare. You’d significantly improve the health of Social Security too if you cut spending there.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  42. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David Losh @ 40 – That’s not the blank check Romney is referring to. What you’re describing is what President Obama did to save the banking system–something I believe which was started under President Bush.

    What Romney is talking about is the provisions of Dodd-Frank which deems five banks “too big to fail.” Romney thinks that gives those banks some sort of competitive advantage. Like pfft, I’m not exactly sure what he’s thinking, because the point of that was to make those banks come up with plans to either recover or be killed off without government funding. Maybe by saying they’re too big to fail, you essentially say government will bail them out even if government says now they won’t be bailed out. But I don’t see how that puts them at an advantage over smaller banks.

    I have said that President Obama is not good at seeing unintended consequences. In this case I’m apparently no better than him, assuming Romney is right.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  43. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 39 – Reality has nothing to do with it. It is always spin and making a point during that occassional blip in the average American’s brain activity.

    Obama was terrible last night. And it would have been so easy to call Romney out on bullshat. Interesting that he did not. May he is sick of the pretense. Maybe he still has a bit of his soul left.

    The audience came for a show and didn’t get it. The PTB are going to have to warn Obama that he must keep up the pretense of a real choice, or the curtain will begin to slip even more.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  44. Kary L. Krismer

    From mid-week thread: By Tatiana Kalashnikov @ 6:

    I don’t think taking a political stance here is productive, so I won’t. But the President looks weak when he just keeps looking down, in a submissive sort of way. I know he will be coached and he’ll probably fix this next time around. But Romney will expect it and come at him in a totally different way. It’s too bad that in American elections hinge on things like debates. The European way is obviously so much better. The election season lasts about two months, then it’s over. A week later the new guy takes over. In America the campaigning never ends. It drives me crazy!

    I agree our elections go too long, but European elections are too frequent.

    As to the debates, they are crucial, and contrary to pfft’s assertions in the other thread, they can affect results. You get to see each side make their argument, and the other side gets to dismantle spin. In a debate, spinning is dangerous. In the rest of the election, spinning convinces idiots to vote for candidates.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  45. Blurtman

    Most importantly, and I am shocked that this is not circulating on the politcal Borscht Belt circuit, Romney looked muy Rico Suave last night. Next debate should be tuxedo mandatory, with a little formal ballroom dancing thrown in.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  46. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 43:

    Obama was terrible last night. And it would have been so easy to call Romney out on bullshat. Interesting that he did not. May he is sick of the pretense. Maybe he still has a bit of his soul left.

    I note he did correctly state that the Ryan plan is not a voucher program. That was big of him.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  47. Scotsman

    RE: Blurtman @ 43

    Or maybe Obama just doesn’t know the facts that well and can’t think on h feet. Even John Stuart commented that O really does need a teleprompter to be at his best. Compare the amount of data R put forth compared to O. I came away convinced O really doesn’t understand how the economy works, and while he talks about math he doesn’t know that well either.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  48. Kary L. Krismer

    By Scotsman @ 47:

    I came away convinced O really doesn’t understand how the economy works. . ..

    That’s been obvious to me for about two years. This election has made it more obvious. The country is in real trouble if he’s reelected, because the economy will be in real trouble if he’s reelected.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  49. Ira Sacharoff

    By Blurtman @ 22:

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 15 – Romney is a toker. Merkel, Hollande. They are all around.

    Show me. I need to see that photo of Andrea Merkel taking that bong hit.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  50. Ira Sacharoff

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 48:

    By Scotsman @ 47:
    I came away convinced O really doesn’t understand how the economy works. . ..

    That’s been obvious to me for about two years. This election has made it more obvious. The country is in real trouble if he’s reelected, because the economy will be in real trouble if he’s reelected.

    I think the country will be in real trouble no matter who gets elected.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  51. Scotsman

    If O is re-elected just think of the economy he’ll inherit this time. Will it still be Bush’s fault?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  52. Kary L. Krismer

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 50:

    I think the country will be in real trouble no matter who gets elected.

    I have hope. There’s a lot of capital sitting on the sidelines waiting for a more friendly knowledgeable President. Also, getting rid of President Obama would go along way toward at least reducing the gridlock in DC, because President Obama is responsible for it having gotten worse. I think that is repairable.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  53. blurtman

    What is certain is that Big Bird was shown to be part of that grabby 47%. Come to think of it, what does Big Bird do for a living?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  54. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 37:

    RE: pfft @ 35

    “I have no idea what blank check he is talking about?”

    It’s hard to keep them all straight, isn’t it? Blank checks to the banks, the union buddies, the major donors and their companies, etc.

    again, what blank check?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  55. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 39:

    I’ve been saying President Obama is a failure because of his inability to create jobs.

    5 million in the last 2 years? he’s gained back all the jobs lost since the beginning of his administration.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  56. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 38:

    Best tweet of the night: “Romney just took Obama on a tour of the country, strapped to the roof of his car . . ”

    This just in- Queen Michele not happy- Barry O sleeping in the dog house. Bo evicted.

    I must be in a bizarro world. Romney lost that debate. He lied like crazy. he lied about medicare about 5 times. he still didn’t tell us how he’s going to close $5 trillion in tax loopholes to pay for his tax cut. he didn’t say how he’d pay for the $2 trillion increase in defense spending he’s proposing that the military doesn’t want. how’s he going to pay for extending the bush tax cuts. then there was his epic gaffe about outsourcing tax cuts!

    obama wasn’t on top of his game, I give him a C+ or B-. he’s still going to win.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  57. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 51:

    If O is re-elected just think of the economy he’ll inherit this time. Will it still be Bush’s fault?

    depends. will he be able to implement any of this programs? will republicans still continue their unprecedented obstruction?

    They’ve blocked in the last year Obama’s jobs bill, a small business bill and a bill to hire veterans. yes, they filibustered a bill to hire veterans. all because they don’t like obama.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  58. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 55:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 39:
    I’ve been saying President Obama is a failure because of his inability to create jobs.

    5 million in the last 2 years? he’s gained back all the jobs lost since the beginning of his administration.

    Okay, inability to create enough net new jobs.

    But seriously, you’re trying to claim that President Obama has created over 200,000 jobs each month on average for the past two years? There have been very few months where the net job gain was over 200,000.

    As to the reference to the beginning of his administration, that would be great but for the fact that there’s been job growth and a lot of people were out of work before he took office. Given those things are not the case, President Obama has been a failure at job growth.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  59. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 56 – No. Romney won. You are entitled to your own opinion, but the overwhelming consensus is that Romney won.

    Obama could have easily poked holes in Romney’s statements, as you have illustrated, but did not. He got bogged down in detail trying to explain things, when a simple but accurate one liner would have been better.

    His posture, with one leg extended backwards, looked effiminate and submissive.

    This one clearly goes to Rico Suave. File it under “Teachable Moment.”

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  60. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 56 – I was about to express amazement that you haven’t been here claiming Romney lost the debate. Just couldn’t help yourself, could you.

    Just because you believe spin, that doesn’t mean Romney lied. It means you’ve fallen hook line and sinker for Democratic spin.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  61. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 60:

    RE: pfft @ 56 – I was about to express amazement that you haven’t been here claiming Romney lost the debate. Just couldn’t help yourself, could you.

    Just because you believe spin, that doesn’t mean Romney lied. It means you’ve fallen hook line and sinker for Democratic spin.

    At Last Night’s Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/

    Romney told the medicare lie over and over again last night. That’s been thoroughly debunked. Anyways paul ryan has similar savings in his plan too!

    just because you lie convincingly doesn’t mean you win.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  62. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 59:

    RE: pfft @ 56 – No. Romney won. You are entitled to your own opinion, but the overwhelming consensus is that Romney won.

    that’s because the media has relentless spinned that he won. Romney lied his butt off. that’s why he lost.

    and the media’s long slow decline continues. we didn’t even get a he said she said story as in republicans say they won and democrats say they won.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  63. pfft

    from an earlier discussion.

    Do presidential debates usually matter? Political scientists say no.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/03/what-political-scientists-know-about-debates/

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  64. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 54

    Let me explain this to you again, but this is tiresome.

    Too Big To Fail means these banks have a blank check. They can do what they want.

    It means if these banks are declared insolvent the economy could collapse. So these big banks are out there generating loans on promises to pay, but have no need to have the value of the asset.

    Bernanke is now buying mortgages at $40 Billion per month so there are no consquences.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  65. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 62

    I also have to agree Romney pulled it out with his enthusiasm. It makes no difference if he lied or was vague, all he had to do is hold his own, but he did better than that.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  66. pfft

    By David Losh @ 64:

    RE: pfft @ 54

    Let me explain this to you again, but this is tiresome.

    Too Big To Fail means these banks have a blank check. They can do what they want

    I don’t have any idea what this means. they can do what? too big to fail banks must have a living will. they will be wound down not given a mythical blank check.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  67. pfft

    By David Losh @ 65:

    RE: pfft @ 62

    I also have to agree Romney pulled it out with his enthusiasm. It makes no difference if he lied or was vague

    yes it does. it makes all the difference in the world. if two people were trying to sell you a house and one told you everything that was wrong and the other put on a dazzling display but totally lied about the condition of the house which one put on the better performance?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  68. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 66

    They already have the blank check. Our banking industry is propped up artificially and they are still out there writing loans.

    My opinion is that Nationally, or globally, the price of Real Estate is artificially high. Banks don’t need to care about the value of the asset. They are supported by our government.

    There is no provision for winding down the banking industry. The hope was that banking would become stronger, which it did, but in the process they only built on the cash reserves they had. The crap, the paper, is being bought by the government.

    There is no recourse, there is nothing we can do about that.

    It was one of the unintentioned results of Dodd Frank. Romney creamed Obama with that comment when Obama had no response.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  69. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 67

    You picked the wrong analogy. People buy crap houses every day by people with great hair, and a BMW. It’s all about the show for most people.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  70. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Blurtman @ 13
    Inslee -McKenna is another one I see as a snorefest. McKenna was something of a right wing bastid when a member of the KC Council. And Inslee just looks like some unfocused pretty boy. Inslee did vote againt the bank bailouts. And against the War in Iraq. So maybe those should count for something.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  71. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 61:

    At Last Night�s Debate: Romney Told 27 Myths In 38 Minutes
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/

    Romney told the medicare lie over and over again last night. That’s been thoroughly debunked. Anyways paul ryan has similar savings in his plan too!

    just because you lie convincingly doesn’t mean you win.

    How far into that list do I have to get to find the first lie by Romney, or the first item that isn’t a lie by the entity making the list?

    My favorite one was #6 where they point to some study and then claim that was the study that Romney was referring to. They must be F’n mind readers!

    Or number 8 where they claim he lied saying the significant increase in oil production this country has seen was due to increases on private land, not public, when the reality for them is the public production was up “slightly.”

    Or number 10, where Romney quoted a study that they disagree with.

    I ended at #10. Obviously not an unbiased analysis.

    What I will say Romney has a problem with is any time you mess with the tax code there will be winners and losers, even at the same income tax level. For example, if he lowers the tax rate and does away with the mortgage tax deduction, that would help the people without mortgages greatly. A lot of people won’t like that uncertainty. Also, I don’t see the point of reducing the tax rate for W-2 earnings, if that were revenue neutral for them. That won’t create jobs like it would for 1099 and similar earnings.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  72. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: pfft @ 67
    Obama and Romney both lied during the debate. Romney was better prepared for it and on the attack . Obama had other things to do and didn’t need any advice anyway:)
    I’d be surprised if Romney gets elected, but things were looking a little too good for Obama lately.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  73. Blurtman

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 72 – I saw his left index finger hit the drone #3 FIRE button while Romney was droning on about how low taxes cure male pattern baldness.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  74. Blurtman

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 70 – Yes. A friend was at his house recently, and says Inslee has a bankers mounted head collection in his man cave. Lots of lava lamps, too, I am told. He has my vote.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  75. pfft

    By David Losh @ 69:

    RE: pfft @ 67

    You picked the wrong analogy. People buy crap houses every day by people with great hair, and a BMW. It’s all about the show for most people.

    great but romney still lied his butt off. with important things it’s substance that matters not style.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  76. Scotsman

    Seventy million people watched the debate last night. Now they know the truth- Obama is a rotten candidate, a lousy president, and he’s got precisely zero to run on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=819q62ZMYVk

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  77. Blurtman

    Of course Romney would not specifiy the deductions that will enable his pink pony land future.

    1.) They don’t balance at all

    2.) Clever wealthy folks will pay Goldman Sachs to invent fictious tax avoidance schemes and securities

    3.) The mortgage interest dedcution will be a goner. Romney does not want to alienate that segment of the voting public.

    The idea is to propose a shell game that sounds plausible on the surface or in the sound bite.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  78. Scotsman

    “As The Daily reported earlier this week, Boston College psychophysiologist Joseph Tecce has found that since 1980, the candidate who blinks the least during the televised debates has gone on to win the popular vote. In his preliminary analysis of last night’s debate, Tecce found that Obama lost in a landslide: he blinked an average of about 75 times a minute, compared to 55 times a minute for Mitt Romney.”

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  79. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 76:

    Seventy million people watched the debate last night. Now they know the truth- Obama is a rotten candidate, a lousy president, and he�s got precisely zero to run on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=819q62ZMYVk

    keep dreaming. it’s going to be great when you take november off from posting. I am looking forward.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  80. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 78:

    “As The Daily reported earlier this week, Boston College psychophysiologist Joseph Tecce has found that since 1980, the candidate who blinks the least during the televised debates has gone on to win the popular vote. In his preliminary analysis of last nightâ��s debate, Tecce found that Obama lost in a landslide: he blinked an average of about 75 times a minute, compared to 55 times a minute for Mitt Romney.”

    awesome. did you know that winning the popular vote means nothing? you have to win the electoral college. ask al gore.

    you have never answered, why did you mislead us about that filmmaker being brought in for question? will you ever answer that?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  81. whatsmyname

    By Scotsman @ 51:

    If O is re-elected just think of the economy he’ll inherit this time. Will it still be Bush’s fault?

    If the zero base line is a frozen bond market, collapsing banking system and losing 510,000 jobs per month, O looks to be inheriting a relative success. That’s not Bush’s fault – or is it?.

    http://www.epi.org/publication/job_losses_ballooned_in_final_quarter_of_2008/

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  82. Blurtman

    RE: whatsmyname @ 81 – From your lik:

    “Since U.S. consumers are now under such strain that they are unable to consume what the economy is able to produce, the government is the sole remaining spender with the capacity to bolster aggregate demand and thereby create jobs. It is essential that government now embrace that role with swift action on a massive recovery package large enough to generate sufficient jobs to prevent further increases in the U.S. unemployment rate.”

    So it is clear that pfft wrote this article, and that the tremendous job losses in the last quarter of Bush’s term were in anticpation of the Obama presidency, clearly.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  83. David Losh

    RE: pfft @ 75

    No it’s not. We have had several conidates who lied, about a lot of things, but if you look good, if you sound good, that is all that matters to most people.

    Let me be more specific because Romney hammered home a point that he was governor of the great State of Massachusetts which we know to be a Democrat strong hold. He told the American people he can break the gridlock. Obama, once again didn’t have a come back, but a feeble joke about Romney’s busy first day in office.

    Obama may have been right, but Romney won the exchange. It’s all in the presentation.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  84. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 77:

    Of course Romney would not specifiy the deductions that will enable his pink pony land future.

    1.) They don’t balance at all

    2.) Clever wealthy folks will pay Goldman Sachs to invent fictious tax avoidance schemes and securities

    3.) The mortgage interest dedcution will be a goner. Romney does not want to alienate that segment of the voting public.

    The idea is to propose a shell game that sounds plausible on the surface or in the sound bite.

    I’m not so sure it would be that hard to balance, given 47% of the people don’t pay taxes.

    The #1 reason he wouldn’t specify is because it would be political suicide. People vote for tax cuts and against the loss of tax deductions, and that would be true of many people who might actually benefit from the plan.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  85. Kary L. Krismer

    By Scotsman @ 78:

    “As The Daily reported earlier this week, Boston College psychophysiologist Joseph Tecce has found that since 1980, the candidate who blinks the least during the televised debates has gone on to win the popular vote. In his preliminary analysis of last nightâ��s debate, Tecce found that Obama lost in a landslide: he blinked an average of about 75 times a minute, compared to 55 times a minute for Mitt Romney.”

    The President’s staff is already working on that problem.

    http://static.dangerousminds.net/uploads/images/clockworkorangegifd.gif

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  86. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 83:

    Romney hammered home a point that he was governor of the great State of Massachusetts which we know to be a Democrat strong hold. He told the American people he can break the gridlock. Obama, once again didn’t have a come back, . . ..

    How could he possibly have a comeback? Obama creates gridlock. He proposes legislation which he knows doesn’t have a chance in hell of passing either house. He does that to make political points, so that people like pfft can say XXXX is against YYYYYY. President Obama’s goal has been to get re-elected, rather than to solve problems and help people.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  87. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 84 – All Romney has to do to cement the Nixon “I-have-a-secret-plan approach” is to raise both arms in the V for Victory salute.

    You may be right that he really, really does have a plan, and that his numbers really, really do add up, but that he just cannot tell us the details. Of course, Bush was the “compassionate conservative.”

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  88. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 86 – Obama is one of them outside communist agitators. (Muslim) Thank Jesus we have patriots like Mitch McConnell defending our freedom. And thanks to his wife for her incredible service to our country.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  89. Pegasus

    California-style elections: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEdKqbqCGnc

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  90. Blurtman

    Ahh, the Obama spin machine is alive and well. Gotta try to corral those pissed off justice seekers.

    Wasn’t it the NY Times that broke the story about the mobile WMD labs in Iraq? Glad to see that they are still on the job.

    Wall Street Regulator Ramps Up Enforcement

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/wall-street-regulator-ramps-enforcement-175604944.html

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  91. pfft

    So Republicans don’t believe in evolution, global warming, obama’s birth certificate, inflation stats and now jobs numbers. Probably the dumbest major political party in the industrialized world.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  92. David Losh

    I’m going to throw this in because it is one of the things I haven’t seen discussed.

    What if Obama let Romney shoot all of his bullets in the first debate. I think Romney hit all of his points, and was given great latitude in making his case to the American people, but where was the substance?

    He was muy rico, pero, he didn’t really say anything. Did any of the fact checking put Obama ahead?

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  93. pfft

    Jobs News Makes Obama’s Case Easier
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/jobs-news-makes-obamas-case-easier/

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  94. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 92 – Yes, with his Romney spin machine mask on, it does. But folks are dropping out of the labor force cause there are no jobs, or working at part time minimum wage jobs, so this can be spun, but beware the blow back.

    You analysis of the labor force participation rate and the effect of retirees on the declining rate is incorrect, and another example of your use of maipulation to promote the party line.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  95. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 91 – Romney has a nice smile, and good haircut. The rest of that stuff is just too confusing. He is sincere. I believe him. He seems to be a nice man.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  96. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 93:

    RE: But folks are dropping out of the labor force cause there are no jobs, or working at part time minimum wage jobs, so this can be spun, but beware the blow back.

    People have probably been dropping out of the labor force because of the presidential polls. Why bother getting a job if Obama is likely to be re-elected, sending the economy into a tail spin. Last hired, first fired. ;-)

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  97. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 95 – A future where we do not have to work, unless we wanted to, where we can have everything we want. I’m in!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  98. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 94:

    RE: pfft @ 92 – Yes, with his Romney spin machine mask on, it does. But folks are dropping out of the labor force cause there are no jobs, or working at part time minimum wage jobs, so this can be spun, but beware the blow back.

    You analysis of the labor force participation rate and the effect of retirees on the declining rate is incorrect, and another example of your use of maipulation to promote the party line.

    nope but keep telling yourself that. the labor participation rate went up too!

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  99. pfft

    republicans are bad for the economy.

    U.S. businesses have added more jobs under Obama in one term than it did under Bush in two terms.

    http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/10/05/14245777-obama-eager-to-tout-drop-in-unemployment-rate?lite

    that’s actually not that hard because in his 8 years in office bush lost almost 700k private sector jobs.

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

  100. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 94:

    RE: pfft @ 92 – Yes, with his Romney spin machine mask on, it does. But folks are dropping out of the labor force cause there are no jobs

    except for the 5.2 million added in the last 30 months…

    Rate this comment: Thumb up 0

These comments are paged! This is page 1. Navigate the pages here:
1 2 3 10

Leave a Reply

Do you want a nifty avatar picture next to your name, instead of a photograph of Tim's dog? Just sign up with Gravatar, and make sure to use the same email address in the form below. It's that easy!

Please read the rules before posting a comment.

You have 500 comments remaining on this post.

Archives

Find us on Google+