Posted by: Timothy Ellis (The Tim)

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

903 responses to “Politics & Economics Open Thread”

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  1. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 600

    I don’t see where Elizabeth Warren gained any advantage from claiming a Native American background. In other commnets you, or some one claimed she got tenure because of a minority status. I don’t see that in what I’ve read.

    I can see where the canidate Brown is at a clear disadvantage in his campaign, but don’t see this issue as making him any points.

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  2. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 100:

    RE: pfft @ 598 – Here is the issue that will put her over the top:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/04/entertainment-us-nodoubt-apology-idUSBRE8A30KU20121104

    huh?

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  3. pfft

    Nate Silver has Obama with an 85% chance of being re-elected. Most estimates I’ve seen have Obama potentially getting 300+ electoral votes.

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

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  4. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 601 – Harvard hired Warren for a temporary position in 1992, and the law school reported a Native American woman on its federally mandated affirmative-action report.

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  5. Blurtman

    Warren first listed herself as a minority in the Association of American Law Schools Directory of Faculty in 1986, the year before she joined the faculty of the University of Pennsylvania Law School. She continued to list herself as a minority until 1995, the year she accepted a tenured position at Harvard Law School.

    The former chairman of the American Association of Law Schools, David Bernstein, told the Herald that the group’s directory once served as a tip sheet for administrators. “In the old days before the Internet, you’d pull out the AALS directory and look up people,” he said. “There are schools that, if they were looking for a minority faculty member, would go to that list and might say, ‘I didn’t know Elizabeth Warren was a minority.’”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-controversy-over-elizabeth-warrens-claimed-native-american-heritage/2012/09/27/d0b7f568-08a5-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_blog.html

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  6. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 605

    That was very educational.

    It’s hard to prove Native American Heritage. There was so much that went on in a vast country that a lot was lost. What wasn’t lost were tales told from generation to the next generation.

    It makes no difference, you don’t get an advantage on a say so. You have to show a little more than checking a box on a form.

    I think Scott Brown has shown himself to be using a Donald Trump tactic. It looks bad for the Republicans

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  7. Scotsman
  8. Scotsman

    RE: pfft @ 603

    Nate Silver will be soooo wrong. The guy needs to get his head out of the numbers and look at the context, talk to some people, age a bit and acquire some wisdom. I’ll venture more people are lying to pollsters and their friends than ever before. Romney will get over 300 electoral votes and win the popular 53/46.

    “Last week, I noticed this blog comment: “Romney was not my first, second, or third choice, but I will crawl over ground glass to vote for him.”

    A lot of Republicans — and, judging from polls, a lot of independents — feel this way. If there are enough of them, Romney will win, and win big.”

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  9. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 604:

    RE: David Losh @ 601 – Harvard hired Warren for a temporary position in 1992, and the law school reported a Native American woman on its federally mandated affirmative-action report.

    and how do you know that she isn’t native american? I would love to here this.

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  10. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 8:

    RE: pfft @ 603

    Nate Silver will be soooo wrong. The guy needs to get his head out of the numbers and look at the context, talk to some people, age a bit and acquire some wisdom.

    right. so when he predicts republicans winning races and keeping the House you dismiss that too right?

    Nate Silver predicts Orin Hatch will win in Utah, does he still need to “talk to some people” for his numbers to be good enough for you?

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  11. Scotsman

    “I’ve seen one Obama sign in my entire neighborhood. Guy just took it down, asked him why, he says “Benghazi pissed me off”.

    Change.

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  12. Kary L. Krismer

    By Scotsman @ 8:

    RE: pfft @ 603

    Nate Silver will be soooo wrong.

    How can he be wrong when he’s giving a percentage chance?

    Don’t get me wrong–I don’t understand pfft’s facination with the changes in Silver’s percentage numbers, but I don’t see how he could possibly be wrong until he says there’s a 100% change one candidate would win.

    BTW, getting a bit overloaded with politics, and assuming they’d mainly be talking about predictions, I took a break from the Sunday news shows yesterday. The one thing I did hear though is someone say both sides have a path to winning over 300 electoral college votes. That’s probably true.

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  13. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 604

    My first girl friend in high school is 1/32nd tlingit from Alaska. She, and her parents looked white. They were approached because they were due money from an oil settlement? I don’t really remember.

    It makes sense to me that Warren could claim Native American, because it was a popular thing to do at that time.

    I don’t understand how it’s a political issue, or why Scott Brown would hammer on it. Maybe if it weren’t for the birthers, and Donald Trump demanding documents from the President of the United States, Scott Brown may have some minor political point, but right now he looks like a baffoon.

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  14. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 609 – What do you suppose the rationale is for the Federal government to request information on “minority” hiring from employers?

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  15. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 614

    Because it’s the law, and a good set of laws.

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  16. softwarengineer

    The Seattle Area Will Definitely Vote Obama

    I hear the rest of the country is a different story though….its a tight race this year.

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  17. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 615 – And the intent of the law?

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  18. Kary L. Krismer

    By softwarengineer @ 616:

    The Seattle Area Will Definitely Vote Obama

    Is there any metropolitan area of any significant size that won’t be voting for President Obama?

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  19. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 609 – Warren cannot show any evidence to substantiate her claim. She was caught in a lie concocted to advance her career.

    The Federal government woudl reject her contention that she was a native American, if, for example, she were to apply for an SBA loan under a minority set aside program. Why? Because she is not registered on any tribal registry. So by the very standards of the US government, Warren is lying.

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  20. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 18 – Miami? Just a guess. Combination of anti-Castro, ant-Commie Cuban vote and American Jews whose concern for Israel supercedes all others, apparently.

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  21. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 614:

    RE: pfft @ 609 – What do you suppose the rationale is for the Federal government to request information on “minority” hiring from employers?

    how do you know that she isn’t native american? do you have a divining rod for ethnicity?

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  22. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 19:

    RE: pfft @ 609 – Warren cannot show any evidence to substantiate her claim. She was caught in a lie concocted to advance her career.

    The Federal government woudl reject her contention that she was a native American, if, for example, she were to apply for an SBA loan under a minority set aside program. Why? Because she is not registered on any tribal registry. So by the very standards of the US government, Warren is lying.

    just laughable. the government doesn’t certify whether you are native american or not. I guess before SBA loan’s their were no native americans?

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  23. pfft

    By softwarengineer @ 16:

    The Seattle Area Will Definitely Vote Obama

    I hear the rest of the country is a different story though….its a tight race this year.

    it’s not a tight race. Obama has a pretty good chance of winning the electoral vote. he’s the favorite.

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  24. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 621 -And your answer to 614 is?

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  25. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 22 – The USG does indeed define ethnic and racial groups, and the criteria for same. The fact remains that Warren is unable to prove her claim.

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  26. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 625:

    RE: pfft @ 22 – The USG does indeed define ethnic and racial groups, and the criteria for same. The fact remains that Warren is unable to prove her claim.

    how do you know that?

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  27. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 24:

    RE: pfft @ 621 -And your answer to 614 is?

    do you have a divining rod for ethnicity?

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  28. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 627 – You are incorrect in your statement that the USG does not define the criteria for race and ethnicity. As Warren has not been able to demonstrate that she is a member of a native American tribe, as she is not registered on a tribal register, she is unable to prove her claim. Native American tribes also utilize this criteria, for example, to determine who shares in gaming revenues. In other words, she is a career advancing poseur.

    Instead of issuing unsupportable statements, perhaps you could offer an opinion as to what the USG’s rationale is for requesting information on “minority” hiring from employers

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  29. Scotsman

    Timothy P. Carney

    Senior political columnist
    The Washington Examiner

    “In Virginia, the state that could clinch the election for Barack Obama, those with incomes over $100,000 are voting 57-42 for Obama, according to Rasmussen’s latest poll.

    Nationwide, Obama is leading among six-figure earners 50-45, according to Rasmussen. Four years ago, Obama won $150k-plus earners by two points, because he won $200k+ voters by 6 points, according to exit polls.

    Democrats will always call Republicans the party of the rich. The media will always believe it. The facts generally tell a different story.”

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  30. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 628:

    RE: pfft @ 627 – You are incorrect in your statement that the USG does not define the criteria for race and ethnicity. As Warren has not been able to demonstrate that she is a member of a native American tribe, as she is not registered on a tribal register, she is unable to prove her claim. Native American tribes also utilize this criteria, for example, to determine who shares in gaming revenues. In other words, she is a career advancing poseur.

    Instead of issuing unsupportable statements, perhaps you could offer an opinion as to what the USG’s rationale is for requesting information on â��minorityâ�� hiring from employers

    By Blurtman @ 628:

    RE: pfft @ 627 – You are incorrect in your statement that the USG does not define the criteria for race and ethnicity. As Warren has not been able to demonstrate that she is a member of a native American tribe, as she is not registered on a tribal register, she is unable to prove her claim. Native American tribes also utilize this criteria, for example, to determine who shares in gaming revenues. In other words, she is a career advancing poseur.

    Instead of issuing unsupportable statements, perhaps you could offer an opinion as to what the USG’s rationale is for requesting information on â��minorityâ�� hiring from employers

    why won’t you answer the question? how do you know she is not native american?

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  31. whatsmyname

    RE: Scotsman @ 629
    Most of those folks are middle class – except in Romneyworld where you need $200,000 to $250,000 to qualify for middle class.

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  32. Scotsman

    RE: whatsmyname @ 630

    So the top 10% are now middle class? I did not know that. /

    http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/

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  33. Scotsman
  34. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 628

    I’m fascinated by your fixation on Elizabeth Warren, and her Native American claim, because it is such a nothing in the bigger scheme of things.

    I like Elizabeth Warren, and am grantful she has entered politics.

    The Native American claim of the other guy, Ward Churchhill may be something, because he did press his advantage with it. Warren did not, and proved she did not.

    So what’s the problem?

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  35. whatsmyname

    By Scotsman @ 32:

    RE: whatsmyname @ 630

    So the top 10% are now middle class? I did not know that. /

    http://www.financialsamurai.com/2011/04/12/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/

    No, they don’t qualify. You’ve got to have $200,000 to 250,000. And that’s just for middle income (generally used for people not quite middle class) You’ve got to read your Romney.

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  36. whatsmyname

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/full-transcript-george-stephanopoulos-and-mitt-romney/

    “GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Is $100,000 middle income?
    MITT ROMNEY: No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less. ”

    I like the “and less”. He sort of caught himself, but too late. He’d answered a simple question, and had already said what he thinks. The “and less” violates the logic of the sentence.

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  37. pfft

    NATE SILVER: Obama’s Odds Have Surged To 92%

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nate-silver-obamas-odds-rise-to-91-2012-11#ixzz2BPe6ofTd

    The national polls are shifting to Obama and he might win the popular vote by 2-3% points.

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  38. pfft

    oh dam! Silver flipped Florida to 53% for Obama!

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  39. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Scotsman @ 629
    So the very wealthy are supporting the socialist?

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  40. pfft

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 639:

    RE: Scotsman @ 629
    So the very wealthy are supporting the socialist?

    yes, folks like jay-z, bruce springsteen and warren buffett.

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  41. Kary L. Krismer

    Have MSNBC and Fox News called the winner yet?

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  42. Kary L. Krismer

    Not hard to guess the political leanings of this reporter.

    http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Arizona-abortion-law-outlook-dim-4010881.php

    A totally gratuitous comment about Romney and abortion at the end of the second paragraph.

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  43. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 634 – I think affirmative action is blatant racisim. And so I think there may be nothing more pathetic than a “white” woman who has had no prior history of identification with a disadvantaged minority group, and who has suffered no such related disadvantage herself, claim to be a member of that disadvantaged minority group to advance her career. That’s all.

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  44. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 643 – Hey, she’s just trying to counter the racism! Just putting things back in order. What’s wrong with that? ;-)

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  45. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 644 – Well, if that was why she is claiming fake minority status, I could understand it. But once caught, just admit it. She is just another lying politician, which is my point.

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  46. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 645:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 644 – Well, if that was why she is claiming fake minority status, I could understand it. But once caught, just admit it. She is just another lying politician, which is my point.

    I ask for a third time, how do you know she isn’t native american?

    you’ve just got your little axe to grind and you just can’t let the Elizabeth Warren thing go. From what I understand a lot of people in Oklahoma where she was born and raised claim native american heritage.

    “When I was growing up, these were the stories I knew about my heritage,” she said.

    She also said that when her mother and father wanted to get married, her father’s family said no because “my mother was part Delaware and part Cherokee.”

    http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2012/09/20/scott-brown-challenges-warren-native-american-heritage-claim-lively-televised-debate/nO1lvqN9UWtAf7hAqBcqQP/story.html

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  47. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 645

    Back in her day it was common for people to claim Native American heritage. To be honest I believe her, there again I would because I like her.

    As for minority status, I’m a big believer in affirmative action.

    You’re going to love this, because I am white Hispanic, because I have checked the box on several occasions. I get no benefit from it from what I can see, but our immigration attorney tells me I am guilty by association. Most of the people I associate with regularly are Hispanic.

    Now how would you prove I’m not Hispanic? Why would you want to? I mean I have no advantage to checking the box so how is that a problem for you?

    Now let me get to the main issue for me. When I wear a suit, and tie, people treat me differently than when I wear jeans, bad shoes, and speak Spanish. You can visibly see people change when I come in speaking Spanish, but then they learn I can speak English perfectly.

    Why is that? Why do people assume so many things?

    Now me, I get to change when I want, or need to, but what about the people who look different? Should they stay at that disadvantage so some other clown can get ahead quicker?

    I think education should be free to those who show ability, no matter what race, or economic back ground. I think that is the most important thing we can do as a country.

    What do you think?

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  48. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 647 – Hispanic is a nonsensical, made up category, by the Nixon administration, in fact. Referring again to the SBA criteria, anyone can claim to be a Hispanic to access minority lending programs, but to claim to be a Native American, you must be on a tribal register. Ironic, that the USA would hold its own Native Americans to a higher standard than Spanish speaking Europeans at one extreme, and Native Americans from south of the border, at the other extreme.

    How would you define “Hispanic?” I do not believe whatever definition you would use could withstand logical scrutiny.

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  49. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 646 – Yes, clearly this alleged rejection of Warren’s mother makes Elizabeth Warren a disadvantaged minority.

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  50. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 648

    You must know that the tribal registry is rigged in favor of a selct few, and the fewer the better, especially now that there is money involved.

    Elizabeth Warren did what she thought was right, but like I said, I check boxes all the time.

    It seems to me your logic is flawed, and a little graspy at this issue.

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  51. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 618
    Dallas.

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  52. Scotsman

    Oh Gawd! Obama wins. Bankruptcy express, here we come! $20T in debt and climbing. . . . What an election cycle- the conventional wisdom- that debates don’t matter, that the economy does, that the polls don’t capture turnout and enthusiasm, all were wrong. And so was I. Pfft has prevailed, and I am toast. Farewell, cruel bubble- sweet unicorn of rainbows and dreams. I’m off to deepen the bunker, and will return next year to focus on housing and the economy. Cheers!

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  53. David Losh

    RE: Scotsman @ 652

    Sorry, you put up a good fight.

    My concern is the acceptance speech of Obama which was way too long, and rambling. It seemed like Obama, unlike Clinton, does know how to inhale.

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  54. ChrisM

    Well, I certainly blew that call. I was convinced that given 8% chronic unemployment, that the voters would demand a switch in party control, regardless of party.

    I was wrong.

    I sincerely hope that we never again hear whining about how Obama inherited the economic mess.

    I sincerely hope that the idiot Republicans can field a viable candidate. If McCain and Romney are the best you idiots can come up with, can you just step aside and let Ron Paul or Steve Forbes or Ross Perot etc. have a shot?

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  55. Blurtman

    RE: Scotsman @ 652 – You will be assimilated.

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  56. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 50 – Still waiting for your definition, but no hurry, take your time.

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  57. Kary L. Krismer

    By ChrisM @ 654:

    Well, I certainly blew that call. I was convinced that given 8% chronic unemployment, that the voters would demand a switch in party control, regardless of party.

    What’s particularly interesting about that is that young and minority voters were overwhelmingly in favor of President Obama, and apparently they did turn out in reasonable numbers (based on some comments on NBC). They are the ones that suffer under his policies the most with high unemployment and slow job growth.

    A couple of months ago I said the rising consumer confidence numbers would be a problem for Romney. People have grown used to this economy, and the reporting doesn’t help. For example, a bad jobs number is reported as good news because the experts expected a pathetic jobs number. Or a drop in the unemployment rate being reported as good news, when it occurred largely due to people giving up (but with a rise in the unemployment rate being reported as being due to more people entering the job market). Bottom line is while most people view the economy as important, I don’t think they get much past the headlines.

    For the rest of us, for the next four years absent a double dip, the most of the people who are doing well will probably continue to do well, and those not doing well will continue to stagnate or worse.

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  58. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 657 – I think they were afraid of another George W style meltdown, but without a recovery. Those sympathetic to immigration reform seemed to have tipped the balance in key states.

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  59. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 658:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 657 Those sympathetic to immigration reform seemed to have tipped the balance in key states.

    But why? Romney was more likely to do attempt to do something on immigration than President Obama ever will be, especially now that he won’t ever have to run again. What immigration reform will look like will depend more on the Congress than the President, but with President Obama the chance of any reform passing is much less.

    It reminds me of 2008, when people were still voting for Democrats based on claims they would end the wars, when the Democrats did nothing after making similar claims in 2006. Why would anyone think President Obama would do anything on immigration based on the past four years? All he did was throw them a bone during the last year, which was only because it was an election year.

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  60. Kary L. Krismer

    Here’s the worst part of the election: 4 more years of Biden being a heartbeat away.

    Here’s the best part of the election: Very unlikely we’ll see a President Biden in four years, assuming he’s still VP 3 years and 10 months from now.

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  61. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 659 – Self deportation did not play well.

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  62. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 661:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 659 – Self deportation did not play well.

    I think that was spun well by the Ds. I don’t see any immigration plan creating a short cut for illegal immigrants. Also, for the legal immigrants, perhaps they’re closer to family members who are here illegally, but many of them have to have family that are not here, but would like to come here. Creating that shortcut would ruin those plans.

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  63. Kary L. Krismer

    Was it Corndog who said the stock market doesn’t like Obama? Apparently that’s true today.

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  64. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 660 – Geithner will apparently be gone, thank God. Can’t wait till the Blankfein Treasury Secretary announcement. One upside to Romney – he would have canned the Bernank.

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  65. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 656

    Any time some one couches a question with a personal attack, I know they are backed up to the wall, so I let that pass.

    Hispanic is of Spanish descent.

    You did hit the part about Native Americans being pushed back across our border with Mexico, which again, keeps our census of Native Americans artificially low.

    So yes, I can be white, and Hispanic.

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  66. ChrisM

    RE: Blurtman @ 664 – Corzine for Treasury Sec.?

    Kary, are you arguing that Biden would be worse than Obama? How? I mean he says silly things, but see that more as shooting from the hip. Despite the smirking, etc., I think he’s a pro at the back room dealing. In the prior election, I would have preferred the roles switched – Biden v Palin.

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  67. wreckingbull

    I find it amusing watching the celebration of the Obama victory and I-502 by the same people. Obama has made it clear he does not support legalization. I predict there is no way in hell the federal government lets I-502 survive. This will devolve into a legal battle which proves costly for our state and the federal government.

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  68. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 665 – Thanks. I am exhaling to create more space. But your Jedi mind tricks are useless here. ;>0

    You have given the floppiest definition of Hispanic that is imaginable. So you are a descendant of the land stealers and enslavers, but yet seek to claim the benefit of programs in place to address these wrongs. That is truly pathetic, in the same way, as Warren’s claim. But I get why you think she did the “right thing.”

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  69. Blurtman

    RE: ChrisM @ 66 – Bunny Wailer for Surgeon General? It really is about time to replace the mordibly obese current SG .

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  70. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: wreckingbull @ 667
    It’ll be interesting. Obama was trying to present himself as a centrist, and was running for re-election. Now that he’s in, maybe he’ll quietly allow 502 to go into effect. Or maybe not.

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  71. calvis

    Not only are there a lot of people that suck at real estate on here, but there are a lot of people that suck at making election predictions as well.

    You know who you are.

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  72. wreckingbull

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 670 – I don’t know, Ira. I tend to judge people on their actions, not their words:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-kampia/obama-from-first-to-worst_b_1001781.html

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  73. Blurtman

    RE: The Tim @ 673 – I say we invade Mexico.

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  74. Ira Sacharoff

    RE: The Tim @ 673
    It was a non binding referendum, and would need to be approved by Congress., Given that the House of Representatives is majority Republican and that Puerto Rico has a few Hispanics, it might take a while for Puerto Rico to gain statehood.

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  75. Kary L. Krismer

    By ChrisM @ 666:

    RE: Blurtman @ 664 – Corzine for Treasury Sec.?

    Kary, are you arguing that Biden would be worse than Obama? How? I mean he says silly things, but see that more as shooting from the hip. Despite the smirking, etc., I think he’s a pro at the back room dealing. In the prior election, I would have preferred the roles switched – Biden v Palin.

    I don’t like the idea of a President saying things that he shouldn’t.

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  76. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 668

    Read my comment, because I get no benefit from checking a box, neither did Elizabeth Warren which she demonstrated, and proved by letting those people who hired her respond.

    Most people of Latino descent resent the term Hispanic.

    We covered this a month or so ago, so I don’t see your point.

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  77. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 677 – No, Harvard did gain benefit from listing Warren as an example of their complying with the hiring of disadvantaged “minorities.” And the government set aside programs frequently utilize the term “hispanic” so folks like you whose forefathers raped the natives in the new world can claim the benefits of programs set up to help disadvantaged minorities. While you personally may not benefit, others have. This is the despicable deception – “whites” masquerading as disadvantged minorities to advance their careers and wealth.

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  78. Pegasus

    RE: Blurtman @ 678 – Give it up, Kimosabi. Warren won and the tribal nations are ecstatic. I can’t wait for the first time Warren wears her war paint on the floor of the Senate. Hopefully that will awaken Maria Cantwell and her evil twin, Patty Murray from their constant slumber.

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  79. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 678

    I’m having a laugh out loud moment here, kind of at your expense, because I am white, probably Irish, Polish, and Swedish, but who knows for sure. If you read my comment you would realize that my immigration attorney said I have a guilt by association.

    I’m what you people call a race trader, because I married outside of my own race, and spend considerable time with people of color.

    Now, in addition to being white I am a person entitled to privledges. These are a couple of new terms for you to gnaw on. We Conservatives, when we talk about enetitlements, we mean all the gifting people of privledge get.

    You may think that you are entitled to a good living, retirement, paid health care because you played the game, kept your nose clean, and played by the rules. You want us all to pay into a system that will give you all of those entitlements.

    You want your 401(k) to be there, so we all pay for that. You want your job security so we all pay for that. We pay into a system commonly referred to as the white man’s way of doing things.

    The problem is a lot of people, like Billions of people are left with less so that you can have more.

    Now, I’m not kicking because i’m white, not only am I white but i’ve got money, and can make as much as I want, whenever I want. I can commit murder and get away with it. I’m a white male in America with money, so I’m golden.

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  80. blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 680 – It really is not wise to post after downing a quart of scotch.

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  81. David Losh

    RE: blurtman @ 681

    I didn’t, I just recapped the same discussion we have had over the course of a year.

    Maybe you don’t remember, but white people always feel they are entitled to privileges.

    That’s why Affirmative Action laws are in place.

    Now, are you seriously claiming Harvard, I mean Harvard, got some benefit from Elizabeth Warren checking a box? Come on.

    The only story here is that Scott Brown, used a Republican tactic against Elizabeth Warren. He gave her the “birther” treatment.

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  82. blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 682 – Equal opportunity does not equate to privelege. As discussed, there is nothing American about denying a lower middle class “white” American access to higher educattion in order to extend that opportunity to a less qualified, wealthier “non-white” American, or perhaps worse, a make believe “non-white” applicant.

    And with regards to Harvard, a brand afterall, and very overrated institution, not gaining benefit by citing Warren as an example of their diversity program, you are quite worng, again.

    “The Ivy League law school prominently touted Warren’s Native American background, however, in an effort to bolster their diversity hiring record in the ’90s as the school came under heavy fire for a faculty that was then predominantly white and male.”

    “Although the conventional wisdom among students and faculty is that the Law School faculty includes no minority women, Chmura said professor of law Elizabeth Warren is Native American,” the Crimson wrote.”

    http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20220427harvard_trips_on_roots_of_warrens_family_tree_officials_touted_her_native_american_lineage

    “Federal statistics like those in the Harvard records, which were compiled for the Department of Labor, rely on a definition of “Native American’’ that requires both ancestry and an official affiliation with a tribe or community. The 1992-93 and 1995-96 Harvard reports indicate the university relied on that definition during those years as well as the years since. Warren has not met any of those standards. Though she continues to consider herself Native American, she has not provided any genealogical evidence.

    “Pepion said he was personally troubled by the idea that someone might indicate Native American heritage on a form solely “for the purpose of gaining some leverage in terms of either a job position or entry into a competitive college or university.’’”

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2012/05/31/elizabeth_warren_acknowledges_telling_harvard_penn_of_native_american_status/?page=2

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  83. David Losh

    Our family, on my father’s side, claim to be Irish. There is no direct link to that other than some one from his family fought in the American Revolution so they came before Ellis Island. My dad even went to Ireland, and had no luck finding the heritage link he had hoped for.

    Is he Irish, or not?

    If you would like for me to spend time Googling Native American Heritage I can, but I can simply tell you that there are millions of people in this country with Native American blood.

    None of that makes any difference though to your premise that Afirmative Action gives an unfair advatage to people of color. I say people of color because you already excluded the poor lower to middle class white person.

    So, yes, my opinion is we do very little for people of color in this country. Your choice of Native American is telling on that point. White people did take over this country by an act of war.

    White people, and by white I mean people of Northern European Heritage, then made the problem worse by importing workers under some pretty deplorable conditions.

    I could also include Africa in this discussion, because I’d really like to know why Europe feels they have a claim to Africa, or it’s resources.

    The fact is that Elizabeth Warren did nothing wrong by checking a box. As a matter of fact we should all be checking the boxes on heritage because you really don’t know how pure your blood is.

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  84. pfft

    By Scotsman @ 652:

    Oh Gawd! Obama wins. Bankruptcy express, here we come! $20T in debt and climbing. . . . What an election cycle- the conventional wisdom- that debates don’t matter, that the economy does, that the polls don’t capture turnout and enthusiasm, all were wrong. And so was I. Pfft has prevailed, and I am toast. Farewell, cruel bubble- sweet unicorn of rainbows and dreams. I’m off to deepen the bunker, and will return next year to focus on housing and the economy. Cheers!

    I feel bad and commute your sentence to 2 weeks. see ya tuesday November 20th…

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  85. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 684 – Those white folks have been buried quite a while ago. And your curious “whitewash” of history somehow omits the crimes of the Southern Europeans, the Spanish and Portuguese. Or are they somehow transformed into members of the very disadvataged group they created through enslavement, theft and murder?

    Racism is wrong whether is was practiced centuries ago, or practiced today. There is no possible rationale for its existence.

    Warren did not “check a box” BTW.

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  86. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 686

    What’s interesting to me is that you want to kill bankers, but banks are white people business. Lending for thirty years is enslaving people.

    Paper work, contracts, small print, 24% interest, are all white people kinds of things.

    So of course millions of people want to give white people a free pass for what they are doing today, to ruin the economy, to create more monarchies, and topple whoever has gotten a toe hold into the white man’s world.

    Sure racism is wrong, but it’s real.

    BTW show me the advantage Elizabeth Warren, or Harvard, got from Elizabeth Warren’s claim to be Native American. I mean if Scott Brown can make demands, I’m sure he offered plenty of evidence that Elizabeth Warren made personal gains from that claim. I haven’t seen that in any articles, but I’m sure it’s all in there.

    Another interesting point is that if you want to kill bankers, Elizabeth Warren is probably your best weapon.

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  87. Kary L. Krismer

    They just updated the picture in the dictionary for the word gullible.

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/121108-hispanic-vote-hmed2p.photoblog600.jpg

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  88. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 687 – My position is one of no bias. So who cares what race the bankers are? Is it possible for you to get out of your racist point of view? The above links show the advantage that Harvard received. BTW, why do you think they have to report race based hiring to the Dept. of Labor?

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  89. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 689

    It’s the law. It’s a good set of laws that should be enforced, and we need more laws concerning Affirmative Action. This issue, that you raised, shows we need to do much more to get people of color into Harvard. We need more women in Harvard.

    I’ll say it again, that white people always want to talk racial equality, but it’s not a reality.

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  90. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 690 – Yes, it is the law. And it has not been designed to be subverted by not following the DOL policies, as Harvard did in the case of Warren. I sincerely doubt that white people are more interested in talking about racial equality than, for example, Africans Americans who have historically been the victims of racism. But practicing racism as a cure to racism is absurd.

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  91. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 90:

    We need more women in Harvard.

    51% isn’t enough for you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_University#Students

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  92. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 691

    Denying racism is absurd.

    It really makes no difference to me because it is a fact of life.

    The real issue here is that Scott Brown tried to run a scam on Elizabeth Warren, you bought into it, why I don’t know, and it became a political issue.

    It’s a race issue that Scott Brown raised along with all of the other Republican witch hunts, like Fast, and Furious, the birther “controversy, and my now favorite, the Libya connections. It’s all conspiracies meant to attack the President of the United States, because he’s black.

    Today Boehner told the President of the United States that he needed to lead when Republicans and the ridiculous Tea party are obstructing economic viability.

    It’s all about race man. There is no way an idiot like Mitt Romeny, with Paul Ryan got that many votes unless it was race related. John McCain with Sarah Palin was more sad, but John McCain actually got votes also.

    With the birther, and you checked the Native American box tactics, how could any one take the Republican Part seriously, unless it was about race?

    Sarah Palin?

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  93. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 92

    “In the last six years” maybe people like Elizabeth Warren helped with that.

    Now we need at least 25% to be African American, and 18% Latinos.

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  94. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David Losh @ 694 -I’d guess that probably goes back 20 years. I was surprised it was so close to 50%–I was expecting it to be higher.

    But hey, the male students already admitted probably would like more female students. ;-)

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  95. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 693 – The Warren Native American issue was not one of race, but one of integrity. I have not been denying racism, but pointing out its harm, whether it is practiced for bad reasons, or, ostensibly good reasons. I was not a Scott Brown, nor, Republican party endorser. And another narrow minded viewpoint is that you are either for the Dems or for the Repubs. Not so.

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  96. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 696

    You’re in a corner now, because the Elizabeth Warren issue is that Scott Brown attempted to make a birther claim, by demanding that Elizabeth Warren prove she was Native American when she was clearly white.

    Scott Brown said it in the debate. Scott Brown could tell by looking at her that she was not Native American.

    That’s racism.

    He could no more tell if Elizabeth Warren was Native American by looking at her than if you could tell if I was Iriish.

    That was an assumption of Scott Brown’s based on skin color.

    That’s racism.

    As far as the proof, there is no proof, and none is required. Elizabeth Warren repeated what she was told by her parents, and grand parents. It’s the same as I repeat my Irish heritage by what my father said. I have no proof.

    The real issue is that the Republican Party relied on antics for political purposes.

    Scott Brown’s integrity has been seriously damaged.

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  97. David Losh

    By Blurtman @ 96:

    RE: David Losh @ 693 – And another narrow minded viewpoint is that you are either for the Dems or for the Repubs. Not so.

    This was a theme of the Republican Party. Find a conspiracy, exploit it, demand every one produce documents, then go along like the truth has been told.

    Like I said if it were just this incident, fine, but this is another Donald Trump moment.

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  98. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 697 – You are talking in circles again. Define “white.”

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  99. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 97:

    RE: Blurtman @ 696 – You’re in a corner now, because . . ..

    Entering Stage 3 of the Losh method. After losing an argument, claim the other side is cornered.

    LOL on Losh calling someone out as a racist! This is the same guy who has claimed that White people have ruined everything!

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