Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

903 responses to “Politics & Economics Open Thread”

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  1. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 699

    Northern European.

    I see we just wasted a bunch of time on Elizabeth Warren, and the Republican smear tactics to an impasse.

    So, let me go on to the real issue that is happening now in North Africa, another conspiracy that Kary is claiming, and another smear tactic of the Republican Party.

    What right do Northern Europeans, and the people of the United States, have to carve up North Africa after World War Two? Is it because our tanks needed oil, Northern Africa had oil, so were were entitled to it?

    Why are we still there, fighting wars, arming militants, and dictating policies?

    Why is it, that a black President is villified for being the first American to notice the cultural differences in that region?

    It’s all racism.

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  2. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 96:

    RE: David Losh @ 693 – The Warren Native American issue was not one of race, but one of integrity. I have not been denying racism, but pointing out its harm, whether it is practiced for bad reasons, or, ostensibly good reasons. I was not a Scott Brown, nor, Republican party endorser. And another narrow minded viewpoint is that you are either for the Dems or for the Repubs. Not so.

    I ask you again for the 3rd or 4th time. how do you know she is not native american? you speak with such certainty of something I am sure you know little about. did you grow up next door to her family? perhaps like scott brown you can see for sure she is not a woman of color?

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  3. pfft

    Professor Warren claimed that she was a Native American, a person of colour and as you can see, she’s not.

    Elizabeth Warren and Scott Brown trade blows in Massachusetts debate
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/21/scott-brown-elizabeth-warren-debate

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  4. pfft

    Look at this nice little indicator.

    U.S. Recession Probabilities
    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/RECPROUSM156N

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  5. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 1:

    <So, let me go on to the real issue that is happening now in North Africa, another conspiracy that Kary is claiming, and another smear tactic of the Republican Party.

    Unlike you, I don’t just make up facts.

    http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Timeline-shows-U-S-lag-in-Libya-attack-4025253.php

    Panetta learned of the attack within an hour of it beginning, and was already on the way to see President Obama at the time. But help didn’t arrive until 15 hours after the attack was over, which I believe puts it at about 22 hours after the attack began. Too bad we don’t have any military presence in Europe or the Mediterranean Sea. /sarc.

    But no, there’s no conspiracy. Panetta claimed days after that they didn’t move anyone in because they didn’t have enough information on the situation on the ground. But there was a drone overhead within almost an hour after the attack began.

    http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Pentagon-Alerted-Within-50-Minutes-of-Attack-on-4025396.php

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  6. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 4:

    Look at this nice little indicator.

    U.S. Recession Probabilities
    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/RECPROUSM156N

    The chance of a recession seems to have shot up on election night! ;-)

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  7. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 705

    I still don’t see the point of the big cover up theory.

    You know what I know, but the fact is that at that time, in the span of an hour in Libya, from the White House, there was nothing to be done.

    15 hours later was too late any way you slice it.

    What we will do from this point forward is find these guys, and kill them, quietly, if they are not dead already.

    I don’t see a point of advertizing our intentions.

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  8. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: David Losh @ 707 – The attack continued for 7 hours. When was the ambassador murdered? When did he give up hope of anyone coming to help?

    But just answer this. Why did Panetta claim they couldn’t put millitary assets into play to help because they didn’t know what was going on at the consulate, when there was a drone there? Are drones only good enough to identify terrorist suspects with enough certainty to kill them, but not good enough to know the number an type of forces engaged in an attack? They can’t see the forest, but they can identify individual trees?

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  9. Blurtman

    The media’s idea of your average Hispanic, Carlos Gutierrez. The implication is that this fellow should understand Hispanics, because his name is Carlos Gutierrez. But he is French and Spanish, a white European. If that is what it takes to be a spokesperson for a “minority group.” perhaps a descendant of George Wallace can be a spokesperson for African-Americans.

    “Carlos Miguel Gutierrez (originally Gutiérrez) (born November 4, 1953) is an American former CEO and former U.S. Cabinet Member who is currently a Vice Chairman of Citigroup’s Institutional Clients Group. He has previously served as the 35th U.S. Secretary of Commerce from 2005 to 2009. Gutierrez is a former Chairman of the Board and CEO of the Kellogg Company. Gutierrez was born in Havana, Cuba, the son of a pineapple plantation owner. Gutierrez is of Spanish and French descent.”

    Just as with Warren, it is likely this fellow satisfied some school or company’s minority hiring requirements.

    Romney’s Hispanic chairman says candidate made mistakes

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/11/romneys-hispanic-chairman-says-candidate-made-mistakes/

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  10. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 2 – As answered previously:

    1.) There is no proof. She cannot prove the claim.

    2.) By the standards of the US Government, which Harvard violated, she is not.

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  11. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 710RE: Blurtman @ 709

    Warren never had to prove a claim. It was a nonissue all the way through the smear.

    Romney could have played to his Hispanic roots. He did not because of the same witch hunt mentality the Republican Party has.

    As far as Carlos goes, you are correct, he is of Hispanic descent, so he is tainted.

    The Republican party made many mistakes in this year’s campaigns, and now we need to concentrate on getting the Republicans out of Congress. That will be the next push.

    We’ll need a strong Democrat Presidential canidate to come forward, and lead us to getting control of Congress so something can get accomplished.

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  12. Blurtman

    OK, Dave. Northern Euopean is white. Then a Somali living in Germany is white. Bravo, Dave.

    So I will give you the last word, as even for me, this grows tiresome.

    Here is a review:

    Prior to applying for a position at UPenn, Elizabeth Warren lised herself as “Native American” in a directory of American lawyers.

    This directory is used in the field, including by hiring authorities.

    UPenn and Harvard, at which Warren did gain employment, claimed her as a Native American professor, in violation of the USG Department of Labor policies.

    At the time, UPenn and Harvard were under fire by the USG, their students, and the media for not hiring enough minorities.

    UPenn and Harvard publically touted Warren as an example of their minority hiring programs.

    Warren remaiend silent, and took no action to edit or change these claims by her employers.

    Warren described her law directory native American designation as done to meet other Native Americans.

    Warren did not engage in any other more sensible means to meet other Native Americans, for example, getting involved in a local tribal chapter, or even a Native America rights group.

    Warren left this designation in the law directory until she was hired by UPenn and then Harvard.

    Warren’s claim, that her great-great-great grandmother O.C. Sarah Smith, was a Cherokee Native American, cannot be substantiated.

    Even if true, that makes her at best 1/32 Native American.

    You have described her as white. It is definitely the case that no employer, citizen or entity denied her any rights or opportunities because they believed she was a Native American.

    Yet she remained silent when her employers were touting her as an example of their adherence to government policies designed to address these wrongs.

    By the policies of the USG, she cannot be considered to be a Native American by her employers who claimed shed was.

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  13. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 712

    Race is by blood, not location, and obviously you have gotten the point.

    A claim of 1/32 by blood Native American would qualify.

    She had nothing to say, because it was what she believed.

    You have raised an important issue because this is how the Republicans chose to run the campaigns. They attacked the President, repeatedly, and showed their true colors, pun intended, by attacking Elizabeth Warren.

    Republicans also likened Eric Holder to the New Black Panther Party when the Fast, and Furious witch Hunt fell apart. Now we have the Bengazi investigation, after Mitt Romney made a point of jumping ahead of the White House in his claims about the event.

    How would it be at all possible for any one to question the integrity of the President during an active investigation?

    I’m sorry to push the point, but the Republican Party felt they had a free pass on this President because he is black.

    The Tea Party is just another example of a bunch of backwater bubbas coming at this Adminstration because there was no way a person of African descent could have performed so brilliantly.

    Now let’s get the Republicans out of the way so we can get on with the very important task of bringing George Bush, and Dick Cheney up on charges.

    You think Obama’s Administration is corrupt? Come on, let’s get to the root of it, which is the Bushs, one, and two.

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  14. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 11:

    We’ll need a strong Democrat Presidential canidate to come forward, and lead us to getting control of Congress so something can get accomplished.

    Not surprisingly, I think we need the opposite.

    Congress is incredibly unpopular, but incumbents get re-elected fairly easily. What we need is for members of the House to express themselves strongly and cut spending. Most of the voters in their individual districts would support that. But as long as the federal government is spending $1T every year over what it takes in there’s no way the Republicans will ever run a successful presidential campaign, absent some scandal. $1T of candy is too much for the 47% to resist.

    Stated differently, during the Bush vs. Clinton election, Bush was down in Florida making promises to keep an air force base open. He was using government money to get votes. President Obama has thrown $1T at voters each and every year. It’s what Bush was trying to do back in 2000 on a huge scale. And the Republicans in Congress let him do it. They need to stop.

    The other thing they need to stop is dealing with the abortion issue. They need to just say that’s a judicial and state issue, and just otherwise STFU. It would also help if they pushed through some immigration reform. Probably this apparently mythical group of Hispanics would favor just about any immigration reform over the status quo, as would most everyone else.

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  15. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 710:

    RE: pfft @ 2 – As answered previously:

    1.) There is no proof. She cannot prove the claim.

    2.) By the standards of the US Government, which Harvard violated, she is not.

    I ask again, how do you know she is not native american? there is no reason to ask for proof. being certified or whatever doesn’t mean jack. it’s like like saying she wasn’t born if she didn’t produce a birth certificate.

    the only reason why you can’t answer the question is because you don’t know.

    just give it up. move on!

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  16. Blurtman

    RE: pfft @ 715 – You have said nothing in six sentences.

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  17. pfft

    By Blurtman @ 716:

    RE: pfft @ 715 – You have said nothing in six sentences.

    I didn’t need to obviously.

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  18. pfft

    Even never has been right in his life Bill Kristol knows.

    BILL KRISTOL: Why Are Republicans Falling On Their Sword ‘To Defend A Bunch Of Millionaires?’

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-kristol-taxes-millionaires-republicans-obama-boehner-fiscal-cliff-2012-11#ixzz2BySF0rBq

    “It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” Kristol added. “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”

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  19. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 715:

    I ask again, how do you know she is not native american?

    Is this a trick question? Asking how someone knows a politician is a liar? ;-)

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  20. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 18 – I think the Republicans will have a hard time getting their Tea Party members on board. Also, there are districts in this country where any increase in taxes will make that member’s re-election very difficult.

    I still favor Santorum’s idea of taxing W-2 income more, but not 1099 income. There the effect on jobs would be less (but still exist), because any effect on businesses would be indirect (e.g. Joe Ceo might cut his pool service down to every other week).

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  21. pfft

    Remember Kary the unfunded Bush tax cuts for the rich will expire. When they expire Republicans will be cutting taxes not raising them.

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  22. Kary L. Krismer

    President Obama, the Republican Senators were not going after Ambassador Rice because they think she’s an easy target. They were going after her because they think she was lying on your behalf. That’s not that hard to understand, especially after Biden lied during the debate and then your press secretary came out and supported the lie afterward.

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  23. Doug

    Dear Lord, why are we going on about Warren’s ethnic background? She speaks incredibly knowledgeably about the economy, (better than 99% of elected officials, that’s for golly sure) and is all about eliminating waste and predatory business practices.

    I’m assuming that you all don’t have any objections to her policy or economic worldview since you’re so concerned about her lineage and lack of melanin.

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  24. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 722:

    President Obama, the Republican Senators were not going after Ambassador Rice because they think she’s an easy target. They were going after her because they think she was lying on your behalf. That’s not that hard to understand, especially after Biden lied during the debate and then your press secretary came out and supported the lie afterward.

    there is no truth to any of what you said. if so, links please?

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  25. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 724 – Re-read what I wrote.

    The Republicans think she was lying on behalf of the Administration. Post a link denying that.

    Biden during the debate used “we” to mean only himself and President Obama, when anyone listening to him speak would think that meant the Administration. Using the term in that manner was a lie. The next day the Press Secretary stood behind that use of the term, basically supporting the Vice President of the United States lying to 60 million (or so) Americans.

    It’s pretty simple, but your understanding of the English language is pathetic.

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  26. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 725:

    RE: pfft @ 724 – Re-read what I wrote.

    The Republicans think she was lying on behalf of the Administration. Post a link denying that.

    Biden during the debate used “we” to mean only himself and President Obama, when anyone listening to him speak would think that meant the Administration. Using the term in that manner was a lie. The next day the Press Secretary stood behind that use of the term, basically supporting the Vice President of the United States lying to 60 million (or so) Americans.

    It’s pretty simple, but your understanding of the English language is pathetic.

    “Using the term in that manner was a lie. ”

    NO! we means Obama and Biden.

    what are you accusing susan rice of lying about? I don’t think she said anything about we didn’t get any requests for security?

    why are the goalposts continually moved with you people?

    btw, who voted down money for embassy security?

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  27. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: pfft @ 26 – Once again your understanding of the English language is pathetic.

    I’m talking about what the Republican Senators are accusing Rice of doing. Not whether or not she actually lied. They are not going after her because they think she is an easy target as President Obama claimed. They are going after her because they think the words that came out of her mouth when interviewed by at least three networks were administration lies. How hard is that to understand? At this point my cats understand that.

    As to what Biden said, pure BS. There is no way anyone listening to him would limit “we” to only meant President Obama and himself. He’s a liar, the press secretary lied the next day, and now you’re making excuses for the lies. Pathetic.

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  28. doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 727

    You DO move the goalposts constantly, Kary.

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  29. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: doug @ 28 – WTF does that mean?

    In post 722 I said something that should have been perfectly clear–the reason why Republican Senators are going after Rice. For some reason pfft didn’t understand that. How is that moving the goal posts?

    And I’ve been saying the same thing about Biden since the press secretary supported his lying to the American people the day after the debate. How is that moving the goal posts?

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  30. doug

    Oh, I don’t know about this particular conversation. I REALLY don’t care about Benghazi. But I recall our birth control/Citizens United discussion.

    It shifted all the way from you saying Obama was leading a concerted and deliberate attack on the bill of rights to just saying he was a big jerk for criticizing the Supreme Court, a somewhat lesser trespass. And not unprecedented.

    And guess what? The ACA is constitutional. And profit-making religious institutions will have to follow it. Just like they have to follow safety regs. And minimum wage. And pay taxes.

    But I’m sure somehow you’ve found some other, much narrower argument already that goes to fit your already-established worldview that because of Obama, free men can no longer practice their religion.

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  31. Kary L. Krismer

    By doug @ 730:

    Oh, I don’t know about this particular conversation. I REALLY don’t care about Benghazi. But I recall our birth control/Citizens United discussion.

    It shifted all the way from you saying Obama was leading a concerted and deliberate attack on the bill of rights to just saying he was a big jerk for criticizing the Supreme Court, a somewhat lesser trespass. And not unprecedented.

    And guess what? The ACA is constitutional. And profit-making religious institutions will have to follow it. Just like they have to follow safety regs. And minimum wage. And pay taxes. .

    First, providing a specific of how President Obama has been attacking the Bill of Rights is hardly shifting anything. If I hadn’t given that example you’d probably be here today saying I wasn’t being specific. That I brought up what he said during his SOTU address hardly means that I’m abandoning my arguments on how he has attacked Speech, Religion, Due Process, Gun Rights and States’ Rights.

    Second, whether the Catholic entities will need to comply has yet to be determined. Since you apparently remember the prior discussion, it’s amazing that you don’t remember the issues involved. That’s the discussion where Losh made the important realization that case law is not consistent!

    But whatever, make up facts to support your claims. Seems rather pointless. But if you disagree, how about letting us all in on what the point of any of your posts in this thread today has been? I’ll leave silence as an admission that your posts have been pointless.

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  32. doug

    You already DID abandon your argument that Obama was attacking religion.

    Presidential thread

    Doug: (This is the entirety of post 46) “The Supreme Court has upheld that constitutional religious freedom does not exempt you from the law of the land. The Supreme Court has upheld the ACA as constitutional, and the law of the land. Therefore, religious entities are required to conform to it. You can’t smoke peyote for religious rituals. You can’t be a polygamist. And now, you can’t deny provisions of health insurance based on religious objections if you’re a private entity. (institutions whose primary purpose is worship are exempt, as you know.) We’re talking hospitals, schools, etc.

    Otherwise, what’s to stop an employer from exempting him or herself from paying unemployment insurance (real religious institutions do this all the time), or the minimum wage? God says that we should be happy with the fruits of our labor, ergo work is its own reward, ergo no minimum wage for you!

    In law, there is rarely such a thing as absolute freedom, in that different groups’ freedoms are often counter to each other. Rand Paul argued that businesses should be able to bar racial groups from their premises due to freedom. But is it not more important that any customer have the freedom to traverse publicly-accessible institutions without the fear or indignity of reprisal based on race?”

    Kary: “I agree with what you say in post 46″

    And then you went on to argue that Obama “is an economic idiot”. You brought up some points, I responded (usually with numbers and such) and your argument that Obama is an economic idiot boils down to is:

    “Businesses have complained a lot about possible tax increases and Obamacare.”

    “Obama should have ‘concentrated’ the stimulus more”
    (why? how? why?)

    When I pin you down on payroll tax cuts being of greater benefit than other tax cuts (with attestation from Moody’s) you start talking about the debt. I point out that the debt was deleveraging the rest of the country and overall debt, and you say I’m being ‘narrow’… by looking at U.S. economy as a whole?

    You compared unemployment under Obama from the day he took office until the present and say it’s ‘barely gotten better’, while ignoring that we had the biggest financial crisis of our lifetimes already underway, peaking at double-digit unemployment

    And when you’re finally out of arguments instead of arguments based on fuzzy impressions, emotions, and unsourced individual cases, your only recourse is:

    “I don’t have any personal dislike for President Obama. I just don’t like him as president because he’s a proven failure and doesn’t have a clue on economic issues. Anyone who cared a dime about unemployment would not have pushed through Obamacare.”

    Just another attempt to switch the topic. But let’s pay attention to a prase here:

    “I just don’t like him as president because he’s a proven failure and doesn’t have a clue on economic issues.”

    This is called begging the question. In the Socratic sense. You’ve started with your big conclusion, and you’ve not backed it up, sought out cause and effect, or supporting evidence.

    You started out with ‘Obama is an economic idiot’. I ask you why. You list 5 points which I take down. (with EVIDENCE, something you may want to look into). You conclude with ‘well, maybe so, but Obama is an economic idiot.’

    There’s no way to argue with logic so circular. You just have to be kind of sad, and get off at the next stop.

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  33. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 727:

    RE: pfft @ 26 – Once again your understanding of the English language is pathetic.

    I’m talking about what the Republican Senators are accusing Rice of doing. Not whether or not she actually lied. They are not going after her because they think she is an easy target as President Obama claimed. They are going after her because they think the words that came out of her mouth when interviewed by at least three networks were administration lies. How hard is that to understand? At this point my cats understand that.

    As to what Biden said, pure BS. There is no way anyone listening to him would limit “we” to only meant President Obama and himself. He’s a liar, the press secretary lied the next day, and now you’re making excuses for the lies. Pathetic.

    she was just telling us what the CIA told her. how do you know she was lying then? you are like blurtman. can you tell me if Elizabeth Warren is a native american too? where will the stock market end the year? who will win the superbowl?

    It is still unclear what started the Benghazi assault. The New York Times reported last month that the attackers “did tell bystanders that they were attacking the compound because they were angry about the video.”

    The Ultimate Guide To McCain’s Smear Campaign Against Susan Rice
    http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/15/1195981/mccain-susan-rice-false-attacks/?mobile=nc

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  34. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 29:

    RE: doug @ 28 – WTF does that mean?

    In post 722 I said something that should have been perfectly clear–the reason why Republican Senators are going after Rice. For some reason pfft didn’t understand that. How is that moving the goal posts?

    And I’ve been saying the same thing about Biden since the press secretary supported his lying to the American people the day after the debate. How is that moving the goal posts?

    The State Dept. is in charge of security. It is unlikely that Biden and Obama knew about it. maybe you can use your divining rod on that too and figure out if he was lying?

    Republicans voted down $300 million requested for embassy security.

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  35. Blurtman

    RE: Doug @ 723 – I believe that affirmative action is racism. Warren, a quite knowledgeable and intelligent woman, aware of the possible implications of describing herself as a minority, 1/32 if that, allegedly based upon family lore, and suffering no race based disadvantage as a white woman, exhibits a lack of integrity, and the all too commonly found get ahead using any tactic possible behavior found in narcicistic politicians. As she pretends to be anything but, the dissapointment is all the much greater.

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  36. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 33:

    she was just telling us what the CIA told her. how do you know she was lying then?

    How simple do I have to put this to get it into your head? I’m talking about what Republican Senators think. Republican Senators are not doing anything based on what I think.

    Learn to read English.

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  37. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 34:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 29:The State Dept. is in charge of security. It is unlikely that Biden and Obama knew about it. maybe you can use your divining rod on that too and figure out if he was lying?.

    Wow, your understanding of English is really pathetic.

    When Biden used the term “we” that would presumably mean not just two people. I have no idea what Biden and President Obama actually knew, nor have I made any such claims. My claim is that using the term “we” in a deceiving manner is the same as lying. Biden might as well have been referring to himself and Bo Obama without disclosing that limitation.

    But hey, we already know that with the Obama Administration the buck stops somewhere else, so it’s not surprising they aren’t taking responsibility for what the State Department did or didn’t do. The Obama Administration takes responsibility for nothing. Even the response to Hurricane Sandy was Bush’s fault.

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  38. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 737

    Pretty sure Obama took full credit for the Hurricane Sandy response, seeing as it seems to have been a huge success from the public’s point of view.

    Here’s some fact-checking on the Rice situation:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mccains-claims-about-susan-rices-comments-on-the-libya-attack/2012/11/15/e6590650-2eb1-11e2-beb2-4b4cf5087636_blog.html

    I really, really, don’t see what the controversy here is. The administration was confused about what happened? Then they painted an incomplete picture with their incomplete knowledge?

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83713.html

    MAYBE there was a logistical SNAFU?

    Here’s the long and the short of it. I don’t know a single person, not one, who gives a rat’s ass about Benghazi (aside from the tragedy of the situation). I know people who are concerned about the fiscal cliff. No one thinks this is a conspiracy aside from the fever swamps of WND and Drudge.

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  39. ChrisM

    Excellent political news – Congress is finally back dealing with critical issues:

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/11/14/senate-votes-on-polar-bear-carcasses-in-first-roll-call-since-september/

    “In its first roll call since September, the Senate voted 92-5 on Tuesday to debate a bill to ease restrictions on hunters and fishermen and allow 41 U.S. hunters to bring home polar bear carcasses trapped in Canada due to a ban on trophy imports.”

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  40. Kary L. Krismer

    By Doug @ 738:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 737 – Pretty sure Obama took full credit for the Hurricane Sandy response, seeing as it seems to have been a huge success from the public’s point of view..

    Apparently you haven’t been reading about extended power outages and untreated sewer, the latter of which was just this morning.

    Interestingly though, not many of the complaints started making the press before the election.

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  41. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 740

    It was the largest Atlantic hurricane on record, Kary! What did you want FEMA to do, put up a goddam forcefield?

    The fact is, the biggest Atlantic hurricane – EVER – hit the most populated part of the United States, and the human toll was thankfully minimized. Thousands of people were mobilized well before the storm made landfall to aid in the response and recovery. I have many, many relatives on the east coast. While they’re devastated by the physical destruction around them, they spent the night in shelters and are healthy. Some of their houses are still LEVELED, but I’ve not heard ONE bad word about the response.

    I’m pretty sure the press reported there were power outages after Sandy, too, Kary.

    Have some facts.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/hurricane-power-outages-after-sandy_n_2146393.html

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  42. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Doug @ 41 – Not sure why you want to run with the hurricane issue. My first Hurricane Sandy comment in post 737 was a joke. I said President Obama blamed Hurricane Sandy on Bush. Not the cleanup mind you, but the fact that the hurricane occurred. Joke–get it? Apparently not, because you ran with it.

    But as to it being a big hurricane, how far did that get Bush with Katrina? The press was all over him in days, but not President Obama with this one. Part of that is probably people realizing that with huge natural disasters things take time. You’re not going to return to normal in a week, as was somehow expected with Katrina. But part of it is the press giving President Obama a pass. If you don’t believe they do that, why is there so little news on the war in Afghanistan compared to Iraq? Troops killed don’t even seem to make the news now, unless there’s a local connection.

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  43. Blurtman

    Regarding Benghazi, information seems to be emerging that the site was basically a CIA operation.

    “If you read one paragraph today, let it be this, from the game-changing article on the front page of the Wall Street Journal:

    The U.S. effort in Benghazi was at its heart a CIA operation, according to officials briefed on the intelligence. Of the more than 30 American officials evacuated from Benghazi following the deadly assault, only seven worked for the State Department. Nearly all the rest worked for the CIA, under diplomatic cover, which was a principal purpose of the consulate, these officials said.”

    http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/02/report-benghazi-presence-was-a-cia-operation/

    Interestingly enough, Petreaus’ hottie was announcing in public that the Benghazi site was holding prisoners.

    First, how would she know what?

    Second, one wonders what that leak might have resulted in upstream. Bye bye CIA director?

    “Now, I don’t know if a lot of you heard this, but the CIA annex had actually, um, had taken a couple of Libyan militia members prisoner and they think that the attack on the consulate was an effort to try to get these prisoners back. So that’s still being vetted.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/12/why-did-paula-broadwell-think-the-cia-had-taken-prisoners-in-benghazi/

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  44. Blurtman

    Was Petraeus another Obama Larry Summers moment? Another Tim Geithner moment?

    Is it possible that Obama is really a clueless dweeb?

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/opinion/petraeus-the-paper-tiger/15445/

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  45. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 743:

    Regarding Benghazi, information seems to be emerging that the site was basically a CIA operation./

    That would probably explain why of all the conflicting intelligence reports, theirs was the worst! ;-)

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  46. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 742

    Honestly, no. Some of your statements are so off the wall and unfounded that I can’t tell if you’re joking, and, well, irony sometimes doesn’t translate well in the written word.

    FEMA did a good job organizing and evacuating people in Sandy, not so much Katrina. I remember Bush and others in his administration saying “no one knew the levies could break.”

    BS. As a former resident of New Orleans, EVERYONE knew the levies could and probably would break if hit by a hurricane.

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  47. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 44:

    Is it possible that Obama is really a clueless dweeb?

    I certainly don’t think much of his legal analysis or economic policy. There are people in this world that sound competent when they speak, but who are near total idiots. I don’t think President Obama is that bad, but I don’t think he’s as sharp as most people seem to think.

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  48. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 743

    I watch Shaun Hannity to help me keep track of the unAmerican activity in this country. I don’t know why this guy hates America so much, but we do have free speech.

    Shaun has been on this new crusade to get to the bottom of this Bengazhai cover up. He is demanding to know that the President knew, and when he knew it.

    Well, it seem very obvious now that there was a lot going on concerning Benghazhai.

    Gaddafy gets toppled, without the help of us sending in thousands of our troops, and it never occurred to any one in Congress we had sent in the CIA.

    What’s bothering the Republican Party is that they have lost the momentum they once had.

    I think a much better use of the time Congress has before the next election is the Global Economic Collapse. All of these side show events the Republicans have tried to advance are a smoke screen to the real economic issues we have.

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  49. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 748 – It is best not to allow American citizens a look behind the curtain. Knowing that there was a CIA operation in Benghazi, the Repubs and sympathizers are only about stirring up trouble to embarrass Obama. Recall the absolute hate machine directed at President Clinton.

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  50. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 48:

    What’s bothering the Republican Party is that they have lost the momentum they once had. .

    Yeah, it has nothing at all to do with the death of an American ambassador, and then a very transparent BS story afterwards as to what happened. /sarc

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  51. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 49:

    RE: David Losh @ 748 -Obama. Recall the absolute hate machine directed at President Clinton.

    And Bush, and others. It’s amazing anyone wants to be President. No wonder we so often get such lousy choices. Look at the Republican field this time. Only about 2 decent choices out of maybe a dozen.

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  52. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 751 – Herm Caine was an unappreciated gem. He turned his pizza sales pitch, 9-9-9 (9 toppings, 9 minutes, 9 dollars), into his platform pitch. Brilliant!

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  53. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50 – But is it possible that the BS story had to do with covering up the CIA operation.

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  54. Blurtman

    “This new claim raises two questions. The first: Why does Broadwell know more about what happened in Benghazi than Congress? (We all know why) The second: Are prison camps the 2008 Obama campaign promised to close, still open? If so, we can add that to the long list of broken promises from Obama’s first term as president.”

    CIA prisons occurring on Obama’s watch? Lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2012/11/12/cia_holding_secret_prisoners_in_benghazi

    And where is that lovable drunk, Diane Sawyer, on reporting the real story? And those waxy faced CNN and Fox News(not really news) anchors?

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  55. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 749

    We are in different times. Republicans claimed through the Presidential campaign it was all about jobs. Instead this witch hunt has uncovered a violent love scandal. It’s a great diversion, but hardly worth the time of Congress.

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  56. David Losh

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50

    It has absolutely nothing to do with the death of Americans.

    We should close this case, and let the CIA do it’s job, find the militants responsible, and kill them.

    What this has everything to do with is the House of Representatives elections in 2014.

    Actually it’s looking pretty bad for Reapublicans all the way around. If they could just muzzle Mitt, maybe they could gain some ground, but I think he’s a time bomb.

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  57. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 755RE: David Losh @ 755 – The Paula Kelley story is a poorly executed “Hey, look over here” side show. What appears to be more on target is the operation of a theoretically illegal CIA prison, its attack, and its operation being unmasked by the paramour of the CIA director, who probably was an inside intelligence agent designed to take out Petraeus if called upon to do so.

    Why is the existence of the CIA prison not being reported on the nightly news?

    Why is the leaking of its existence by the CIA director’s mistress not cited for the reason of the firing of Petraeus?

    How dumb are Americans?

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  58. Kary L. Krismer

    By Blurtman @ 53:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50 – But is it possible that the BS story had to do with covering up the CIA operation.

    Yes, that is a real possibility. And the question then becomes was the Administration aware of that, or were they played by the CIA?

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  59. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 56:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50 – It has absolutely nothing to do with the death of Americans.

    We should close this case, and let the CIA do it’s job, find the militants responsible, and kill them. .

    So the government lying to the American people is okay as long as government spy agencies go out and kill people?

    Is that really the kind of a world do you want to live in?

    You’ve really said a lot of incredibly stupid things on this topic. It started with your blaming the Ambassador for his own murder. Now you want a government that is seemingly totally unaccountable and has unlimited power.

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  60. Kary L. Krismer

    By David Losh @ 56:

    What this has everything to do with is the House of Representatives elections in 2014.

    Actually it’s looking pretty bad for Reapublicans all the way around.

    Not sure how you see that. I haven’t seen stats, but my impression is that the Dems picked up very few seats this cycle. Typically the party that wins the presidency wins a lot of seats during the presidential election and loses a lot in the off year. If my impression is right about the seat pickup being slight, then it’s the Democrats which are in trouble.

    Also, at some point the Democrats are going to have to quit spending so much money, which will send the economy downward unless they change other policies, which they are unlikely to do. So if we in fact have a weak economy in 2014, the Democrats will be in real trouble.

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  61. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 758 – I am astounded that no USA news network, including that of horrible stress junkie Martha Raddatz, is reporting on the CIA prisons in Benghazi.

    There exists video of Paula Broadwell stating that there were CIA prisons in Benghazi.

    Doesn’t anyone find it odd that a CIA director having an affair is a reason for being fired?

    We are truly living in the Soviet Union, with government controlled “news” that basically consists of dancing monkey stories designed to entertain and amuse.

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  62. Kary L. Krismer

    Anyone else see the escalation of the Hamas mess being Israel taking out some Iranian nuclear facilities? I do because:

    1. That would be getting to the root of the problem (Hamas’ supplier and financier).

    2. Iran is not as well liked in the middle east as Palestinians, so there’d be less blow back from others in the region.

    3. In their view a military attack of Iran’s facilities is apparently going to have to happen as some point, so why not now?

    4. The build up of the ground forces is a good distraction.

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  63. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 762 – Who knows? I think the underyling issues need to be resolved and not ignored. The meddling of US and Euopean powers in the Middle East created this disaster.

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  64. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 63 – As did too much money! It’s not like Venezuela is in the middle east. ;-)

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  65. Blurtman

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 764 – No. But dicing and splicing up land by the UK, Russia, the USA and other victors, and the assignment of countries to diverse groups without consideration of historical land claims and blood feuds has contributed to this disaster. Add a sprinkling of the cold war, and alignment with the Soviet Union versus the USA, and a reverse diaspora of Europeans and Americans moving back to the Middle East, and there you go.

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  66. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 765 – I wasn’t disagreeing, but pointing out it wasn’t the only factor. If Alaska had a bit more oil, Palin could have become a real monster! ;-)

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  67. pfft

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 760:

    By David Losh @ 56:
    What this has everything to do with is the House of Representatives elections in 2014.

    Actually it’s looking pretty bad for Reapublicans all the way around.

    Not sure how you see that. I haven’t seen stats, but my impression is that the Dems picked up very few seats this cycle. Typically the party that wins the presidency wins a lot of seats during the presidential election and loses a lot in the off year. If my impression is right about the seat pickup being slight, then it’s the Democrats which are in trouble.

    why don’t you find out before posting?

    Repbublicans were heavily favored to take over the Senate before they got Akined.

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  68. pfft

    America’s Grumpiest Senator is calming down.

    McCain Backs Away From Benghazi Conspiracies
    http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/20/1225461/mccain-rice-benghazi-talking-points/

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  69. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 767:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 760:
    By David Losh @ 56:
    What this has everything to do with is the House of Representatives elections in 2014.

    Actually it’s looking pretty bad for Reapublicans all the way around.

    Not sure how you see that. I haven’t seen stats, but my impression is that the Dems picked up very few seats this cycle. Typically the party that wins the presidency wins a lot of seats during the presidential election and loses a lot in the off year. If my impression is right about the seat pickup being slight, then it’s the Democrats which are in trouble.

    why don’t you find out before posting?

    Repbublicans were heavily favored to take over the Senate before they got Akined.

    Yes, I know that. What I haven’t heard is what the Dems picked up versus what a winning party usually picks up. Since it’s not reported in an in your face kind of way, I’m assuming Obama had few coattails, but I haven’t been that interested.

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  70. Kary L. Krismer

    By pfft @ 68:

    America’s Grumpiest Senator is calming down.

    McCain Backs Away From Benghazi Conspiracies
    http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/11/20/1225461/mccain-rice-benghazi-talking-points/

    That article doesn’t say what it says it says, or at least it doesn’t support what it says McCain said with a quote of McCain saying that.

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  71. doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 769

    Well, the Democrats had over twice as many incumbents up for re-election as the Republicans. Meaning things looked *very* good for the Republicans to gain seats. The only conversation early on was whether they’d pick up enough to be the majority.

    Several things happened:
    -Obama’s approval rating went up to over 50% late in the game and the economy improved to an extent
    -Akin and Mourdock said dopey things
    -Warren just seemed to flat-out out-debated Brown who started with a pretty good lead
    -Romney got a bit toxic to the Republican brand

    So, whether you give credit to Obama or the Senate candidates, picking up two seats in the Senate rather than losing them was HUGE for the Democrats this year, just a monster win.

    Put it this way: Not a SINGLE of the 16 (well, 15 and one indie) incumbent Democrat lost. And the Dems won NINE out of eleven open seats (again, counting an Incumbent as a Democrat).

    I’m sorry, that’s a big, big victory. I’m not willing to say anything about 2014 when the economy is still uncertain, but to say the Republicans look strong coming out of this election is to deny reality.

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  72. HappyRenter

    It’s funny that Obama and Romney met today for lunch and “The focus of their discussion was on America’s leadership in the world and the importance of maintaining that leadership position in the future”:

    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/29/15543416-romney-meets-with-obama-at-white-house-lunch?lite

    Ironically, today most of the UN voted in favor of recognizing Palestine as an observer state, while the US was one of few to be against it.

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  73. Blurtman

    Syrian “rebels” acquire surface-to-air missiles.

    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=55828

    Brilliant! Mission accomplished, General Petraeus.

    And now when a US ariplane is downed, President Obama and Secretary of State Rice can tie the act of terrorism to Iran and it is Groundhog Day, The Sequel,

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  74. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Blurtman @ 773 – Fast and Serious? :-D

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  75. Kary L. Krismer

    The King of Gridlock is at it again.

    http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/04/15675071-obama-no-fiscal-cliff-deal-without-higher-tax-rates-for-top-earners?lite

    Do you think the American voters wanted us to go off the “Fiscal Cliff?”

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  76. whatsmyname

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 775

    The “Fiscal Cliff” is mostly marketing, and nothing that can’t be completely fixed as late as the end of January.

    Boehner cannot accept the end of what were sold as “temporary” tax cuts for the very wealthiest Americans. His “compromise” is that he can accept a tax increase that is shared by the upper-middle, and sometimes plain middle class instead. Who does this guy represent? Who does not get this transparent sham of making things “simpler” by making them more opaque?

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  77. Kary L. Krismer

    By whatsmyname @ 76:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 775 – The “Fiscal Cliff” is mostly marketing, and nothing that can’t be completely fixed as late as the end of January.

    Some people think the last round of brinkmanship damaged the economy. I would tend to agree. January is way too late. We’re already too late. People know that DC is totally dysfunctional and that the elections did nothing at all to change that. If things get better the next two years it will be despite of politicians in DC, not because of them.

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  78. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 777

    Wouldn’t you argue the brinksmanship is that of the Republicans? Certainly in original debt limit crisis (which produced the fiscal cliff) and now they’re already talking about getting riled up for the next debt limit increase.

    I mean, whatever your thought on the debt and deficit, playing around with default should pretty much be off the table, right? Maybe you get a few things you want out of it and go forward, but you don’t seriously make noise about letting the country default, and how that could be a good thing.

    What’s the logic here? “We’re so scared of possible future default and possible future hyperinflation that we’ll force present, certain default and hyperinflation?” Holy cow.

    It’s the same logic that says “SS might possibly have to reduce benefits in 20 years, so instead let’s reduce benefits now (but not for baby boomers! *wink wink*)”

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  79. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Doug @ 78 – I would argue both are at fault, but when you have a President that repeatedly insists on non-obtainable positions over and over and over, that’s a problem.

    It’s like I said a long time ago. You have a President and a Congress that do not get along, and a President that cannot negotiate. Congress was not going to change in the elections. The American people decided the other wasn’t going to change. Now we’ll likely have another four years of the last four years.

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  80. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 779

    I don’t think that’s an accurate depiction of what happened. Boehner and Obama had seemed to have reached an agreement last time around, but Boehner was forced to nix it, when he realized that congress wouldn’t vote for anything with Obama’s name on it.

    “Obama offered to put Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid cuts on the table in exchange for a tax hike of roughly $100 billion per year over 10 years. Meanwhile, government spending would be cut by roughly three times that amount.”

    He came to the table conceding a lot to the House in 2011, and they nixed the deal and blasted him in the press. I still think that many of them would have let us default and burn in order to crush Obama.

    Now he starts with what HE wants (generally popular things) and the Republicans are responding with the same vague nonsense as the Romney tax plan. If they can’t express their views and wants because they are politically poisonous, that is not Obama’s problem.

    Republicans had Obama over the barrel in 2011. He wanted to play ball, but they wanted more, more, more. They wanted to ruin Obama. Now he’s negotiating from a position of strength. You’re surprised that he’s more hard-nosed? Republicans could have had everything they claim to want in 2011. They blew it.

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  81. Doug

    Read this:

    http://swampland.time.com/2011/07/23/the-inside-story-of-obama-and-boehners-second-failed-grand-bargain/

    This is a picture of a President trying very, very hard to bring the Democrats and Republicans together in a grand bargain in 2011. This is not the person you are describing in your post, “a President that cannot negotiate.”

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  82. David Losh

    RE: Doug @ 781

    The stated goal of the Republicans was to make Barrack Obama a one term President. There was no deal that Obama could have proposed that would have been acceptable.

    Like with Health Care we, the citizens, got a bastardized version of a budget that even I recognize as limited in scope.

    We need a complete budget over haul, along with the tax codes. Several Departments should be on the block including loop holes, and tax breaks for businesses, and individuals. The Department of Commerce comes to mind, and I have thought for years that Department should be open for review.

    The Defense budget is already being worked on for what that is worth, but it will stop some of the bleeding.

    Last, but not least is Health Care, MediCare, and MedicAid. All of Health Care needs to be compromised to get this bogus non profit health insurance racket working for health rather than granite entry ways to a hospital.

    There’s a deal in here, there is deficit reduction, but everything needs to go on the table.

    Republicans digging in on not taxing the wealthiest Americans a little more is the best indication of where the problem lies.

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  83. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Doug @ 81 – Just from recollection, President Obama’s approach back for that issue was considerably different. Again from recollection, both sides offered things that they either couldn’t deliver or pulled off the table. But you’re right his approach was different than today.

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  84. Blurtman

    Let the invasion of Syria begin. The US news media dutifully carry out the US government disinformation campaign.

    Welcome to the Soviet Union. Welcome to the occupation.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/syria-loaded-chemical-weapons-bombs-awaiting-attack-order-010311575.html

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  85. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 784

    How is the loading of chemical weapons disinformation?

    Assad is done, and surrounded, even Russia sees it. So if there is movement of chemical weapons that is a cause for concern.

    Are you thinking we will send in an occupation force? I doubt that very, very much. We aren’t doing to good being watch dogs in that region any more.

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  86. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 785 – It is disinformation if it is not happening. Recall Saddam’s WMD’s. Exactly how were Sadaam’s WMD’s a threat to the USA anyway?

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  87. Doug

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 783

    Doesn’t it then follow that Obama CAN negotiate, and in fact has negotiated in good faith in the past? Is it not reasonable that he not negotiate in the manner that failed in the past (i.e., being reasonable?)

    Why wouldn’t he try to force the Republicans to take ownership of the unpopular things that they have demanded, and are demanding?

    And if everyone’s so dang concerned about the deficit, (as you yourself have said you are in the past) well, the fiscal cliff will reduce it by a heaping ton. Obama’s plan reduces debt by about twice as much as the Republicans’ plan, by-the-by ($4t to $2t). Stimulus and all.

    Oh, and it’s Congress’s job to propose their plan, much more so than Obama. They floated repeal of Obamacare as part of a fiscal cliff deal. If anyone’s being unreasonable…

    At least Obama’s plan is specific. At least the fiscal cliff is specific. It’s a whole lot better than “we’ll raise $800b through unspecified loopholes and cut $600b from health care without specifics, and $600b amount of unspecified government programs.”

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  88. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 786

    We gave Saddam the weapons, in my opinion, and he did use them on the Kurds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    In the case of Assad he is an international problem, because, in my opinion, we don’t know where Assad got the weapons.

    So I think it’s a real threat in an end game; a negotiating point.

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  89. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: Doug @ 87 – Let’s accept everything you say as true.

    How is repeatedly saying that something the Republicans don’t want is non-negotiable in any way a useful negotiating tactic? Why is he so hung up on raising rates as opposed to raising revenues? Why not say: “I’m open to options, as long as they raise $X.”???

    Pissing off the other side is seldom a good negotiating tactic. What’s next, President Obama insulting the member of Congress’ wives and children?

    But again, he does seem to have more than one approach. A third approach was what he did with Obamacare, where he was totally hands off and willing to sign anything Congress put in front of him as long as it addressed health care.

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  90. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 788 – The news media doesn’t know. They didn’t see it.

    Are cluster bombs OK, then?

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  91. whatsmyname

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 789:

    Kary/Doug, sorry to butt in, but I have to respond.

    How is repeatedly saying that something the Republicans don’t want is non-negotiable in any way a useful negotiating tactic?

    Is this not mirror image true of the House Majority leader’s actions? You could just substitute “Democrats” for “Republicans”. Why is this a one sided question?

    Why is he so hung up on raising rates as opposed to raising revenues? Why not say: “I’m open to options, as long as they raise $X.”???

    What about an option to push all taxes onto the middle class? Maybe we could sell the poor? Because how you gain the revenue addresses the party’s key values. Same as for John B, whose values are clearly to keep “temporary” taxes reductions for the top 0.01% at any cost.

    Pissing off the other side is seldom a good negotiating tactic. What’s next, President Obama insulting the member of Congress’ wives and children?

    Has he been more personal than an R party leadership that spouted for two years that they made ending his presidency their number one goal? Above the economy? Above everything else Americans may need? It’s Obama who should be pissed; Obama and, oh also, the Americans.

    A third approach was what he did with Obamacare, where he was totally hands off and willing to sign anything Congress put in front of him as long as it addressed health care.

    You didn’t hear this one during the election. It’s not Obamacare, it’s O’congresscare. I like it.

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  92. Kary L. Krismer

    By whatsmyname @ 91:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 789:

    Kary/Doug, sorry to butt in, but I have to respond.

    How is repeatedly saying that something the Republicans don’t want is non-negotiable in any way a useful negotiating tactic?

    Is this not mirror image true of the House Majority leader’s actions? You could just substitute “Democrats” for “Republicans”. Why is this a one sided question?

    Because President Obama controls completely what he will accept. That is not true of the other side, as was discovered during the debt ceiling negotiations. President Obama is asking for something that is not likely to happen, claiming it’s non-negotiable.

    What’s crazy is Santorum actually has the best solution, IMHO, but he’s such a nutcase no one else seems willing to back it.

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  93. Kary L. Krismer

    By whatsmyname @ 91:

    Why is he so hung up on raising rates as opposed to raising revenues? Why not say: “I’m open to options, as long as they raise $X.”???

    What about an option to push all taxes onto the middle class? Maybe we could sell the poor? Because how you gain the revenue addresses the party’s key values. Same as for John B, whose values are clearly to keep “temporary” taxes reductions for the top 0.01% at any cost.

    That’s not even worthy of a response. Why did you stop there? Why not propose killing the poor or a return to slavery?

    As noted, there are other options to raise revenue besides raising rates, and those can be tailored to some extent to hit the same group (although some in the group more than others, which is the whole point).

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  94. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: whatsmyname @ 91 – I’ve said before it’s ironic that it’s called Obamacare, because he had almost nothing to do with what was passed. He gave very little guidance on what he wanted and what he would accept/reject.

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  95. whatsmyname

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 792:

    Because President Obama controls completely what he will accept. That is not true of the other side, as was discovered during the debt ceiling negotiations.

    Ah, then he does have room to push in negotiations.

    Obama is asking for something that is not likely to happen, claiming it’s non-negotiable.

    Ah, now he doesn’t again. Back to my point, John B “is asking for something that is not likely to happen, claiming it’s non-negotiable.” That’s what I call a pretty close parallel.

    crazy is Santorum actually has the best solution, IMHO, but he’s such a nutcase no one else seems willing to back it.

    He is so crazy that I have not read his solution. So I am not really endorsing it when I say that you may be right. But without knowing what it is, I must admit that you may be right.

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  96. whatsmyname

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 93:

    That’s not even worthy of a response. Why did you stop there? Why not propose killing the poor or a return to slavery?

    I thought of those too. That is the point. Why would anyone box themselves into “just give me options to X” when that provides no protection from “Y” which may be the most ridiculous options your opponents can dream up – or maybe just ridiculous enough to be defended on some BS grounds

    As noted, there are other options to raise revenue besides raising rates, and those can be tailored to some extent to hit the same group (although some in the group more than others, which is the whole point).

    Or perhaps the point is to hit people in other groups? When someone opposes doing something the simple and easy to understand way, you need to take a closer look at what they really want to achieve. When they start getting slippery on exactly what their alternative will do, you have good reason to doubt their intentions. You know this is true.

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  97. Kary L. Krismer

    RE: whatsmyname @ 95 – Santorum’s solution is to raise taxes on high income W-2 earners, but not those earning money directly through their activities, or those receiving 1099 income. That would protect the small businesses that the Republicans seem to care about, and not deter other forms of investment which could create jobs.

    Not many people are going to quit a $250,000+ job because the tax rate goes up a few percent. Not many people are going to turn down a raise if they make over $250,000 because the tax rates go up a few percent. The only impact on employment would be the person making over $250,000 through wages would not be spending quite as much money.

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  98. Kary L. Krismer

    By whatsmyname @ 96:

    As noted, there are other options to raise revenue besides raising rates, and those can be tailored to some extent to hit the same group (although some in the group more than others, which is the whole point).

    Or perhaps the point is to hit people in other groups? When someone opposes doing something the simple and easy to understand way, you need to take a closer look at what they really want to achieve. When they start getting slippery on exactly what their alternative will do, you have good reason to doubt their intentions. You know this is true.

    That slippery slope would probably be liked a lot here. First, reduce or eliminate the mortgage interest deduction for those making over $250,000. Second, reduce or eliminate the mortgage interest deduction for others.

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  99. David Losh

    RE: Blurtman @ 790

    You mean the United States as a terrorist organization, and I agree with that. The United States has run every frigging scam across the globe, culminating in bombing, and covert assasination.

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  100. Blurtman

    RE: David Losh @ 799 – Sure. Just Google “white phosphorous Fallujah” to see how a real war criminal operates. But I also meant Israel, which used cluster bombs in the last Lebanon incursion. Gas bad. Unless it is white phosphorous. Cluster bombs good.

    I was watching an inane American citizen on the news say that she was able to go about her inane daily activities, probably shopping at Target, because of the troops defending our freedom. And you wonder why the average German citizen didn’t speak up about the death camps.

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