Succinctly put and incontravertably true. Having mortgage debt has done more to increase my prosperity than any other single means. Even at a conservative 5% appreciation rate on a $400,000 home, few if any Americans will accumulate $20,000 by just saving. Sythetik sounds like someone who can't qualify to get in the game. I recommend reading a stack of Kiyosaki books and playing the "Cashflow" game.
Kiyosaki cracks me up. He has a whole book/seminar for telling people the difference between an asset and a liability. I guess the sad thing is how many people don't know that.
It *is* sad and the tragedy of it is that we fail to educate our kids in any kind of financial intelligence.. The mantra was and still is "go to school, get good grades, get a good *job*". Be somebody's employee and make them wealthy. Not that going to school and having a job are bad things but it sure is nice to do them on your own terms. I'd think that if you really knew the difference between asset and liability you wouldn't be making rental contributions to somebody else's prosperity. As for the all those "anyones" that can qualify, we'll see how long that lasts.
"I'd think that if you really knew the difference between asset and liability you wouldn't be making rental contributions to somebody else's prosperity."
JD
I don't know why I should be surprised by someone who takes a mantra reminiscent of Orwell's 1984, and co-opts it as his financial mantra, yet doesn't see anything wrong with that, but you assumption is faulty; my mortgage contributions are contributing to someone else's prosperity not my rental contributions. At least 80% of it is.
My guess is that as soon as anybody can no longer qualify, my equity will be a lot less than Zillow now claims it is.
I'd think that if you really knew the difference between asset and liability you wouldn't be making rental contributions to somebody else's prosperity.
I'd think if you didn't know anything about someone's situation (here's a hint: you don't) you'd keep your mouth shut so you wouldn't look like a fool.
Well disclose away and fill us great unwashed in on what someone with a handle like "Lake Hills *Renter*" means when he disparages home ownership. Maybe you won the Lotto and don't want the hassle and responsibility of ownership? Do tell, I'm intelligent enough to change my mind in the face of new facts and not too proud to apologize. If I'm clueless, it's because the obvious clues you give are bogus.
Well disclose away and fill us great unwashed in on what someone with a handle like "Lake Hills *Renter*" means when he disparages home ownership.
Wow, such snottiness and condescension. How dare a renter tender his opinion!
But please do show me where on earth I disparaged home ownership. I simply said Kiyosaki cracks me up because he creates a whole seminar around one simple concept. Anything else is a figment if your imagination.
Maybe you won the Lotto and don't want the hassle and responsibility of ownership? Do tell, I'm intelligent enough to change my mind in the face of new facts and not too proud to apologize. If I'm clueless, it's because the obvious clues you give are bogus.
Seriously, do you have me confused with someone else or something, because I have no idea WTF you are talking about or where this hostility is coming from.
you wouldn't be making rental contributions to somebody else's prosperity
So does mine in a more indirect way. At some level everybody's job hinges on that.
So what does contributing to somebody else's prospertity have to do with the decision to rent or buy. You should make the best decision for you, not make decisions out of spite or jealousy of someone else.
Please forgive me, I'm apparently unclear as to what motivates people who aren't into home ownership to be involved in a forum that appears dedicated to it. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other; as an agent I make a commission on your real estate sale, as a landlord you pay for my equity. In fact, the fewer people capable or willing to buy drives my rents up so I'm good. The difference is that I get a great deal of personal satisfaction from putting buyers into homes that will enhance their net worth. OTOH, the best a perrennial renter can be is someone who pays his rent on time and doesn't trash the joint. At the end of his lease he's no better off than he was going in. So forgive me for giving you attitude, I truly am grateful for the renters that increase my wealth, provide me with write-offs and help keep me from having to return to the corporate rat race. Thank God for you all. I just don't "get" what you're doing *here*
Please forgive me, I'm apparently unclear as to what motivates people who aren't into home ownership to be involved in a forum that appears dedicated to it.
Once again you put words in my mouth, but at least your condescension is thinly veiled this time.
You know next to nothing about me -- not my plans, not my financial situation, nothing -- yet you look down your nose at me simply because I rent right now. I've said nothing either way about whether I am "into home ownership," yet you presume to know me based seemingly on stereotypes of, and prejudice against, people who rent. Perhaps that's why you don't "get" why I am here.
I'd recommend coming down out of your ivory tower and treating us lowly renters like human beings -- or even maybe (gasp!) future clients -- instead of serfs to be lorded over with your imagined superiority. But then what can you expect from someone who's apparent highest acheivement is not trashing the place?
Thank God for you all. I just don't "get" what you're doing *here*
We all have free tickets to the worlds greatest train wreck, the death of the Real Estate Industrial Complex (REIC). It's fun to watch - especially when you have no debt, are completely liquid.
That's freedom! Why be a slave to your "possessions"?
I think many of us on this forum could buy their home with cash, but they choose not to.
Heh, looks like we have a bitter "homedebtor" on our hands!
I can't begin to describe the freedom my wife and I have. Having your own company and not buying assets when they peak in price has always been a blessing.
I can't begin to describe the freedom my wife and I have. Having your own company and not buying assets when they peak in price has always been a blessing.
As I figured...big mouth, no guts. Since you can't prove the unlimited wealth you brag about on a daily basis, we can only assume you're a low a paid wage slave stuck in cube land.
Not sure what the big deal about using your real identity is....the owner of this Blog does, so do many of the other posters. Using your real identity is only stupid if you've got something to hide, which is obviously the case with you.
I think protecting myself and my wife from potential psychopaths like you is reason enough! Don't you think?
Why would I want to open up my home address to the general public? What purpose would that serve? Why would I want to give you the name of my business? What purposes would that serve?
This topic is highly controversial and I certainly wouldn't want my clients to know my opinions on certain things.
Sorry, there's nothing to be afraid of. If there were real estate crazed lunatics out there they would have gone after Tim along time ago. I never post anything on a Forum that I wouldn't say to someone in person. It's as simple as that. I've never lied about who I am, were I live, my financial situation, etc.
We can only conclude that you've got something to hide. I suggest you cease your slanderous comments, especially towards me, until you're ready to stand behind them. Otherwise, your are nothing but a coward and a troll.
I said potential psychopaths... and who know what has put you over the edge? I'm guessing you're concerned about your equity... why have the conern at all? Sell the boxy little joint and be done with that.
The fact that you haven't sold and continue to participate in this forum makes me think that YOU are the one who has something to hide. Your story just doesn't add up - it never has.
As far as having something to hide, maybe I do! Maybe I have 10 kilos of bullion here, waiting to find a good storage place? 1 pamp suisse kilo is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, easy to hide and worth about $21,200. Very shiny too!
The fact that you haven't sold and continue to participate in this forum makes me think that YOU are the one who has something to hide. Your story just doesn't add up - it never has.
1. I find it most difficult to believe that someone who has so little skin in the game (owner of one median priced home in ballard) spends so much time railing against the forces of Seatte Bubble.
2. That someone who has so much equity and armed with information that a housing crash is impending, still has no want to sell. (and no, I don't want to hear your tired arguments for the 1000x time)
3. That a guy who is a part time writer and jazz musician makes enough to cover the $2400 rent you are paying to the bank. I'm assuming your wife makes a great deal more, as starving artists types generally don't have that kind of scratch. I simple google search doesn't return many instances of any published works or $1M selling CD's.
Just doens't add up. Still, it could all be true, which is fine. And maybe I could buy in to the idea that you get the same sort of pleasure out of watching this as I do... that somehow you really think you'll be right and that housing prices won't crash.
i still believe that you must have more in the real estate game to be so proactive with this site (at least recently). last gasp maybe?
1. I find it most difficult to believe that someone who has so little skin in the game (owner of one median priced home in ballard) spends so much time railing against the forces of Seatte Bubble.
Not railing against anything....I'm just watching how this all plays out. Right now I don't see signs of impending doom. Just a slower market.
2. That someone who has so much equity and armed with information that a housing crash is impending, still has no want to sell. (and no, I don't want to hear your tired arguments for the 1000x time)
The only reason we'd sell is to buy another house. If we have to, we can live comfortably in this house for the rest of our lives.
3. That a guy who is a part time writer and jazz musician makes enough to cover the $2400 rent you are paying to the bank. I'm assuming your wife makes a great deal more, as starving artists types generally don't have that kind of scratch. I simple google search doesn't return many instances of any published works or $1M selling CD's.
I'm actually a full time musician and writer and also own several online retail music sites. It generates a comfortable income.
My wife doesn't work. You can come over and see my business if you'd like.
Just doens't add up. Still, it could all be true, which is fine. And maybe I could buy in to the idea that you get the same sort of pleasure out of watching this as I do... that somehow you really think you'll be right and that housing prices won't crash.
Sorry, I still don't understand what doesn't add up. What are you getting pleasure from? Watching prices go up and while saying they're going down? Werid.
I'm just find it to be a fascianting time in the market. So I like to keep track of what's going on. My personal situation isn't really that affected by it because we're not moving anytime soon, if ever.
i still believe that you must have more in the real estate game to be so proactive with this site (at least recently). last gasp maybe?
Look at the country records...this is the only property I own.
I wouldn't want to insinuate you are a psychopath, Mesh, because I don't think you are. I assume your recent instability is at least partially caused be the ease with which synth can push your buttons.
But just for general information, two bubble websites (Marin and Vancouver, I think) recently shut down due to death threats.
I don't hide my identity per-se, but neither due I broadcast it.
That's freedom! Why be a slave to your "possessions"?
I think many of us on this forum could buy their home with cash, but they choose not to.
Unless you're going to give up being a slave to needing shelter too you may as well buy it and have it working for you instead of someone else. IOW, my possessions are a slave to *me*.
Could pay cash??<snicker> Sure... whatever you say. The infinitesimal number of those that can pay cash usually don't because it just isn't smart money until you get into the stinkin' rich level.
I'd recommend coming down out of your ivory tower and treating us lowly renters like human beings -- or even maybe (gasp!) future clients -- instead of serfs to be lorded over with your imagined superiority. But then what can you expect from someone who's apparent highest acheivement is not trashing the place?
I'm guilty of making shotgun responses to multiple posts. I'll try to be more specific from here on out. My best clients are some that I've helped out of the rent trap and then again some renters are what I called "perrenial" for whatever reason; chronic credit problems, you name it. They're *usually* the ones that get evicted and/or leave the place trashed so paying the rent on time and taking care of the place *is* relatively the best they're going to do. Too bad...the deposit they lose nearly never covers the damage.
Unless you're going to give up being a slave to needing shelter too you may as well buy it and have it working for you instead of someone else.
Hmm... More emotional arguments...
From a long term historical perspective, real estate gives a 0.006 return over inflation. Yes, you may get lucky and buy right before prices rise but 400 years of records say prices will revert to that very low rate of return.
On the other hand, real estate is one of the easiest ways to leverage assets for the average person. Real estate is an utterly fantastic investment in a bull market. But leverage swings both ways. It can wipe you out in a bear market. That may not be so bad if housing prices are 2-3 times your annual income, but at 6-7 times annual income it is more risk than I am willing to take.
I think real estate is a particularly risky investment right now. The problem will bull markets is very difficult to predict. I think it might have been possible to predict this one after banking was deregulated, but I didn't see it coming. I would rather put my assets in something that I do not expect to depreciate 20-30% over the next few years.
Comments
Succinctly put and incontravertably true. Having mortgage debt has done more to increase my prosperity than any other single means. Even at a conservative 5% appreciation rate on a $400,000 home, few if any Americans will accumulate $20,000 by just saving. Sythetik sounds like someone who can't qualify to get in the game. I recommend reading a stack of Kiyosaki books and playing the "Cashflow" game.
Dude. It's become painfully obvious ANYONE can qualify to get in the game. Even ultra-maroons who get snookered Kiyosaki.
JD
I don't know why I should be surprised by someone who takes a mantra reminiscent of Orwell's 1984, and co-opts it as his financial mantra, yet doesn't see anything wrong with that, but you assumption is faulty; my mortgage contributions are contributing to someone else's prosperity not my rental contributions. At least 80% of it is.
My guess is that as soon as anybody can no longer qualify, my equity will be a lot less than Zillow now claims it is.
I'd think if you didn't know anything about someone's situation (here's a hint: you don't) you'd keep your mouth shut so you wouldn't look like a fool.
So does mine in a more indirect way. At some level everybody's job hinges on that.
Wow, such snottiness and condescension. How dare a renter tender his opinion!
But please do show me where on earth I disparaged home ownership. I simply said Kiyosaki cracks me up because he creates a whole seminar around one simple concept. Anything else is a figment if your imagination.
Seriously, do you have me confused with someone else or something, because I have no idea WTF you are talking about or where this hostility is coming from.
So what does contributing to somebody else's prospertity have to do with the decision to rent or buy. You should make the best decision for you, not make decisions out of spite or jealousy of someone else.
Once again you put words in my mouth, but at least your condescension is thinly veiled this time.
You know next to nothing about me -- not my plans, not my financial situation, nothing -- yet you look down your nose at me simply because I rent right now. I've said nothing either way about whether I am "into home ownership," yet you presume to know me based seemingly on stereotypes of, and prejudice against, people who rent. Perhaps that's why you don't "get" why I am here.
I'd recommend coming down out of your ivory tower and treating us lowly renters like human beings -- or even maybe (gasp!) future clients -- instead of serfs to be lorded over with your imagined superiority. But then what can you expect from someone who's apparent highest acheivement is not trashing the place?
We all have free tickets to the worlds greatest train wreck, the death of the Real Estate Industrial Complex (REIC). It's fun to watch - especially when you have no debt, are completely liquid.
That's freedom! Why be a slave to your "possessions"?
I think many of us on this forum could buy their home with cash, but they choose not to.
Dream on....just stay in your cubicle and be a good boy and maybe your boss will give you a raise.
I can't begin to describe the freedom my wife and I have. Having your own company and not buying assets when they peak in price has always been a blessing.
Prove it....
How would you have me prove this information anyway?
I bet if I conducted a poll here you'd find there were plenty of renters on here that had $500k+ in liquid net worth.
Not sure what the big deal about using your real identity is....the owner of this Blog does, so do many of the other posters. Using your real identity is only stupid if you've got something to hide, which is obviously the case with you.
Why would I want to open up my home address to the general public? What purpose would that serve? Why would I want to give you the name of my business? What purposes would that serve?
This topic is highly controversial and I certainly wouldn't want my clients to know my opinions on certain things.
Sorry, you're not going to bait me Horowitz...
We can only conclude that you've got something to hide. I suggest you cease your slanderous comments, especially towards me, until you're ready to stand behind them. Otherwise, your are nothing but a coward and a troll.
The fact that you haven't sold and continue to participate in this forum makes me think that YOU are the one who has something to hide. Your story just doesn't add up - it never has.
As far as having something to hide, maybe I do! Maybe I have 10 kilos of bullion here, waiting to find a good storage place? 1 pamp suisse kilo is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, easy to hide and worth about $21,200. Very shiny too!
Good, you're learning to be polite. Keep it up...
Like what?
2. That someone who has so much equity and armed with information that a housing crash is impending, still has no want to sell. (and no, I don't want to hear your tired arguments for the 1000x time)
3. That a guy who is a part time writer and jazz musician makes enough to cover the $2400 rent you are paying to the bank. I'm assuming your wife makes a great deal more, as starving artists types generally don't have that kind of scratch. I simple google search doesn't return many instances of any published works or $1M selling CD's.
Just doens't add up. Still, it could all be true, which is fine. And maybe I could buy in to the idea that you get the same sort of pleasure out of watching this as I do... that somehow you really think you'll be right and that housing prices won't crash.
i still believe that you must have more in the real estate game to be so proactive with this site (at least recently). last gasp maybe?
Not railing against anything....I'm just watching how this all plays out. Right now I don't see signs of impending doom. Just a slower market.
The only reason we'd sell is to buy another house. If we have to, we can live comfortably in this house for the rest of our lives.
I'm actually a full time musician and writer and also own several online retail music sites. It generates a comfortable income.
My wife doesn't work. You can come over and see my business if you'd like.
Sorry, I still don't understand what doesn't add up. What are you getting pleasure from? Watching prices go up and while saying they're going down? Werid.
I'm just find it to be a fascianting time in the market. So I like to keep track of what's going on. My personal situation isn't really that affected by it because we're not moving anytime soon, if ever.
Look at the country records...this is the only property I own.
But just for general information, two bubble websites (Marin and Vancouver, I think) recently shut down due to death threats.
I don't hide my identity per-se, but neither due I broadcast it.
Just prudent.
Unless you're going to give up being a slave to needing shelter too you may as well buy it and have it working for you instead of someone else. IOW, my possessions are a slave to *me*.
Could pay cash??<snicker> Sure... whatever you say. The infinitesimal number of those that can pay cash usually don't because it just isn't smart money until you get into the stinkin' rich level.
I'm guilty of making shotgun responses to multiple posts. I'll try to be more specific from here on out. My best clients are some that I've helped out of the rent trap and then again some renters are what I called "perrenial" for whatever reason; chronic credit problems, you name it. They're *usually* the ones that get evicted and/or leave the place trashed so paying the rent on time and taking care of the place *is* relatively the best they're going to do. Too bad...the deposit they lose nearly never covers the damage.
Hmm... More emotional arguments...
From a long term historical perspective, real estate gives a 0.006 return over inflation. Yes, you may get lucky and buy right before prices rise but 400 years of records say prices will revert to that very low rate of return.
On the other hand, real estate is one of the easiest ways to leverage assets for the average person. Real estate is an utterly fantastic investment in a bull market. But leverage swings both ways. It can wipe you out in a bear market. That may not be so bad if housing prices are 2-3 times your annual income, but at 6-7 times annual income it is more risk than I am willing to take.
I think real estate is a particularly risky investment right now. The problem will bull markets is very difficult to predict. I think it might have been possible to predict this one after banking was deregulated, but I didn't see it coming. I would rather put my assets in something that I do not expect to depreciate 20-30% over the next few years.